My column Friday reported on the Meade rainbow flag controversy. Seems some folks in Meade are up in arms about a gay pride flag flying in front of a hotel owned by J.R. and Robin Knight. They say it was an innocent gift from their 12-year-old son; but some locals demanded it be removed.
Then someone cut it down, and the Knights vowed to keep putting the flags up.
The situation got far uglier Friday when the Knights reported that someone threw two bricks at their hotel — one went through the restaurant window.
Scrawled on the brick was the word "fag." Another brick fell short of the building, J.R. Knight told The Eagle editorial board. It said, "Get the f— out of town."
Local police are investigating.
"I’m scared," Robin Knight told me. "I just don’t know what’s the matter with these people." She said that there are "a lot of good people here who support us." But Meade obviously has some very bad apples as well. Town residents need to speak out and condemn this harassment.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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141 Comments
I have actually been there several times a couple of years ago.
I think I’ll stop on in and check them out the next time I’m there. Give JR Knight my support.
I have also seen that flag when I drive through Meade. I don’t get the impression of a gay thing.
I have actually been there several times a couple of years ago.
I think I’ll stop on in and check them out the next time I’m there. Give JR Knight my support.
I have also seen that flag when I drive through Meade. I don’t get the impression of a gay thing. And even if it was, more power to them. They can express anything they want. People, however do not have the right to detroy property or itimidate people.
The only missing from this Meade fight are the white robes and masks. What is wrong with these people? And where are the church leaders in this town?
Sigh…
People can be so awful sometimes.
But I’m sure those brick throwers have supporters lurking in the background feeling very smug about their “righteousness”. What would Jesus do?
CR,
I have yet to see or hear of anyone supporting these acts of violence from the Christian community.
I don’t support it. I think it is wrong. Unfortunately there are stupid people out there who do stupid things.
Like I asked before – where are the church leaders in this town? Why are they not stepping forward?
CR,
What do you mean by stepping forward?
Do you mean, they are not in the news so you don’t see them so you assume they are not doing anything?
Is that what you are implying?
So you assume that the church leaders are all helping the Knights? Where do you get that info from? I’m sure if the church leaders in town would show their support for the Knights – then there would be something in the paper about it.
Another typical small-minded town is showing their ignorance to the rest of the country.
CR,
My only point here is to wonder what your point is by asking over and over where the church leaders are.
Church leaders are usually the moral compass for any town – I was just wondering where their voices were in all this fighting? Why take it so personal?
The church leaders rn’t stepping forward because they support the violence… Their silence shows that…
I consider this a criminal act. When asking about Church Leaders, what about law enforcement.
A town that small, people should know who threw the bricks and since there hasn’t been any arrest, I’m assuming somebody is protecting the criminals identities.
Tony,
If you could please hare with us:
1. Who are these “church leaders” you mention?
2. Do you live in the town?
3. Do you know any of these “church leaders” in person?
4. Logically, how do you prove that the “supposed” silence from the church leaders is an endorsement of this violence?
5. What is it that you think the “church leaders” should be doing?
6. How do these “church leaders” control or do anything to stop the violence if they are not directly responsible for or know of those doing it?
Nathan,
I’m talking logic. IF the church leaders came out against these hateful acts, than it would show they were against it. If they keep silenced than they are for it.
So, let me hit your check list here so i’m not accused of not answering questions…
1) the church leaders being discussed above by CR and yourself. I would ASSUME that you are talking about the various christian denominations located in the town.
2) no
3) no
4) lets relate this to your children, if you ask them if they did something, they stand up and say no right away, what do you think, most likely they didn’t do it but if they stay quite and dont say anything, what do you think, i think right away they are guilty as hell. Same thing applies here. Same thing has applied in our governments silence about wire tapping, illegal investigations, and even with things when it comes to the Military Action in Iraq.
5) I think the church leaders should stand up Sunday morning and say, who ever did this was wrong and that attacking another one of Gods creatures like this is also wrong both legally and in the eyes of God.
6) this is a fun one, church leaders have as much influence over their members lives as almost anything else in their lives. If you are a devout follower of your faith, you go to church every week, probably twice a week, and your leader says, dont do that… what are you going to do, do it anyway? probably not. If they dont say anything, what do you think? probably something along the line of, they dont care, i dont care…
My point in this is that it is the Knight’s right to fly that flag… It is their right to live free and not be harassed or attacked… It is their private property, their flag pole and their son’s gift, not the rest of the communities. If they have a problem with it, it shows how ignorant and intolerance they really are…
When too much Christian love gets thrown around someone’s bound to get hurt.
What about you nathan, would you kindly answer your own questions…
Tony – thanks, you get my point. Too many people stay silent and with their silence they are really condoning the violence. That was all I was trying to state. I didn’t realize I was ruffling some Christian feathers.
Oh come off it Nathan,You know as well as I do that those preachers were quoting that verse in leviticus every chance they got for the last two years- just like every other RR preacher in the state! But of course there’s no possible way that calling gay people an abomination before the lord, for which the prescribed punishment is stoning could be construed as condoning violence against gay people or their friends. Oh no!Something about as ye sow….!
The town I now call home has a rich history of racism, the KKK and when my wife lived here for a time while we dated. They still had their “Sundown” sign at the edge of towm.
Times have change here for the most part. About five years ago, there was some cross burnings on a couple of yards. Within two days that Police had made arrests. The criminals were turned in by town’s people.
Every town has their share of idiots. Yes I have no doubt that many in Meade know who did this. Now it is their turn to decide to do the right thing.
From the ever-humble yet tastefully decorated desk of Farah C. Church,
Yes, it is truly disturbing that some iniquitous individuals are allowed to parade themselves with impunity and forcing us true Christians(TM) to react in untoward ways. Why, it was only a generation ago when another group of “untraditionalists” provoked us true Christians to use attack-dogs, fire hoses, and a few feet of nylon rope to defend our God-given rights (Genesis 9:27). As you can attest, we Christians have mellowed over the years. Now, we can only scrape together a rather non-discript brick and a resulting broken window. However, sinners should not take our newly found “compassionate conservatism” as a sign of weakness or that we condone their filthy lifestyles.
To all you unsaved people out there (and you know who you are) AND to all saved people (those that have excepted Jesus as their P,L&S), here are a few common-sense, Christ-centered tips in helping your child not to adopt the very disgusting hobby of being an homosexual. I sincerely hope you take this Godly advice to heart and help prevent future “reactions” by Christians that only trying to help in the same adage (you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette).
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0704/homoprevention.html
YIC,
Farah C. Church
Ahhh, small town, Christian morality at play. And they wonder why city folk think they are
CUCKOO
CUCKOO
CUCKOO
White Trash Meth Freak Losers
Get out of your shithole once in a while and experience life, hicks. You will discover that most people hate your ignorant provincialism
Let he who is without sin toss the first brick. Nuff said.
What’s the matter is they live in Kansas. End of Story.
Ok Tony here you go:
“1. Who are these “church leaders” you mention?”
I have no idea who any of them are. I didn’t think you did either. You sit here making demands on this imaginary “church leaders” and you don’t even know who you are talking about.
“2. Do you live in the town?”
I don’t live there. I didn’t think you did either. How can you sit here and say that the church leaders are not speaking against this if you are not even a member of their church or in that town? My “church leader” here in wichita does and says many things which are never published or recorded by the media. I somehow doubt that the media has agents in every church waiting to see what they say so that they can publish it here to alliavate your demands for them to “speak out”
“3. Do you know any of these “church leaders” in person?”
I sure don’t. I was just confirming that you didn’t either, so you have no idea what you are talking about.
“4. Logically, how do you prove that the “supposed” silence from the church leaders is an endorsement of this violence?”
Again, you didn’t prove logically how silence = endorsement. I don’t see how you can either. It can, but you have no proof of this.
“5. What is it that you think the “church leaders” should be doing?”
I think they should remind their members that this kind of violence doesn’t do anything and is not what we are commanded to do as Christians. I almost bet that the “church leaders” are doing just that.
You make it sound like it is members of the church doing this when you have no idea.
“6. How do these “church leaders” control or do anything to stop the violence if they are not directly responsible for or know of those doing it?”
They can’t. I don’t know what kind of power you think these “church leaders” have when you can’t even tell me who they are…
This whole thing is awful and your trying to blame church leaders is petty.
Jed,
No Christian church I have ever been a member of as preached about stoning homosexuals.
As usual you spout your lies.
Well good morning Nathan.The church I belong to gladly accepts gays into the congregation.They believe that salvation is a personal journey, and disciples should not judge or even speak poorly of other disciples upon the path. I personnaly believe that your spirituality/religion should be a private experience, and not subject to scrutiny in public.Just my .02’s worth.
Tracy,
I don’t think we should speak “poorly” of other disciples either.
Did Jesus think salvation was a personal journey or did he call for sinners to repent and come to know God?
What was Jesus relationship like with his disciples?
Didn’t Jesus correct them and teach them or did Jesus just let them go on their own spiritual path?
If you have children, do you ever correct them when they do something wrong and do you tell them to do what is right? Or do you just let your children go down their path which is right for them and don’t say anything?
As you know Nathan, the biggest part of his taechings were not only through his words but also his example. That is why he ministered to the unlovable sinners of his day.I’m certainly not saying that christians should not have a stance on right/wrong, good/evil/.Yes, I parent in the age old fashion.I’m just not the evangelistic type, I believe it’s a path of attraction, not promotion.That’s just my personal view, not that of my church.
I have done volunteer work at jails, hospitals, correctional camps, etc.This type of thing was in my case an emmulation of Christ.Instead of being judgemental about people who have become too dangerous to be loose in society,I attempted to metaphorically wash their feet as Jesus did.I taught by example, from my own sinful experiences, that there is a better way to live, and it can be as simple as doing the NEXT right thing.
It only took 3 posts to attack Christians for the situation in Meade.
This gets a little old, folks. Nobody on this forum knows who’s behind this. We talk long and loud about Christians having a persecution complex, but the first thing I see is, we blame Christians. Where are the churches on this issue? We don’t know one way or the other, do we? I seriously doubt that any church in Meade is saying “stone the queers”. I seriously doubt if the news media is going to send reporters to the local churches to find out what they say or do about this.
You don’t suppose this could be some of our small-town rednecks in action? Nah, let’s blame it on the Christians.
XXX, that was must first thought also. Young rednecks on booze.I don’t know that religous people had anything to do with this, unless it’s a westboro type church.I’m not sure religious is a good description of them though.
Insert tiresome “persecuted majority” quip here.
Todd this thread was never about religion. Somebody upline suggested the crime was done by religious zealots, that’s how you ended up with the persecuted majority meme.
Nathan, send me your email address and we can have an ongoing PRIVATE discussion about this, or any other thing you would like to discuss. I would enjoy that.
I will get back to you later Tracy.
I am on duty today and the government networks prevent us from access to private email acounts.
okay, cool.That’s the address.It’s live.
Condemn the harassment as that has no virtue. But prosecute the vandalism. That’s the wrong-doing here. The motivation simply reveals the stupidity of those involved in the harassment.
http://blogginoutloud.blogspot.com/2006/08/talking-points-81206.html
See, this is why liberal-leftists should not post under their own names on a public blog like this one.
When was the last time you heard of a gay dude throwing a rock through the window of Terry Fox’s church? Or a card-carrying ACLU member firing their employee because she had a “GW 2004″ sticker on her car? Or a black guy lynching a red-neck for having a Confederate flag on his pick-up truck?
The threats, the dirty tricks, the political firings, the lynchings, the arsons, the bricks through the windows are all coming from the same direction–the conservative against the “liberal.”
It practically never goes in the other direction. You have to go back to the Weather Underground in the early 70’s to find a serious example.
And why? Because one of the primary beliefs of liberalism is in the value of diversity, tolerance, and free speech.
A lot of conservatives have the medieval notion that “right justifies might.” “We’re right, and that justifies ramming our truth down your throat for your own good.”
Liberals believe in M. L. King and peaceful protest, in the first amendment . . . about which Ann Coulter said famously, “I don’t completely believe in it.”
It’s easy to be a conservative and post under your own name and ridicule anyone who doesn’t. What’s the worst that could happen, the libs will start a petition against you?
Tough guys. They ought to fly a rainbow flag in front of their house if they want to see how the other side has it.
Nathan–
Come off the innocent act. You’re not that dumb, and nobody’s buying it.
When the imans and ayotollahs whip up hate against the US and say nothing about the terrorism carried out in the name of Islam, do you say, “they know nothing about it and have no responsibility or control over it?”
Just two weeks ago I was spinning the radio dial and I heard Terry Fox say on his radio show that “tolerance is the most dangerous word in America” and Joe Wright was sitting there saying, “amen, brother!”
Now that is a simple fact. These religous right-wingers who represent and lead the thinking of TWO huge mega-churches here in Wichita are saying “tolerance” is bad.
When someone throws a brick with the word “fag” written on it, that is not tolerant, is it? It is a logical response to a religion that says “do not tolerate” behavior (gays) that we say is unChristian.
You and your people threw that brick just as sure as the hand that threw it.
And if you refuse to take responsibility and slip and slide with your disingenuous and duplicitous excuses, you remain part of the problem rather than its solution.
Oh really Redrad?
Gays accused of discrimination in resort town:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060721/od_nm/rights_gays_dc
Not only that, but you are taking the actions of a few and treating it as if it is the actions of the majority.
If everyone on the right or even a small minority did all the crap that the few idiots do then there would be much more violence.
Of course, don’t let things like the truth stand in the way of you hasty generalizations…
“You and your people threw that brick just as sure as the hand that threw it.”
LOL. Very predictable.
I fail to see where anyone posted that Christians were doing this in Meade? I only saw posting asking where the church leaders voices were in all this fighting? Meade is not that big of a town – surely there are other people there that can stand up to whoever threw those bricks and cut down the flag in the first place. Where is the law enforcement in that town? Again, Meade is not that big of a town – I’m sure everyone knows who did this to the flag.
fedup,
How are you so sure everyone knows who did this?
Do you know who did this?
Do you know someone who knows who did this?
If you are so sure that you know that they know then I am positive that you must know too.
So, why have you not done anything about the people who you know are involved???
I have lived in small towns before. Believe me – someone, if not everyone knows who did this. Did I ever say that I know? No – so don’t put words in my mouth. I was just asking why there are not people supporting their neighbors when they are being subjected to hate – and throwing a brick with the word fag written on it is hate! No matter how you spin it.
And please don’t drag out that Christians are being persecuted line. In the Bible it clearly spells out that the believer’s life is a persecuted one. If you can’t stand up to the persecution than maybe you need to deepen your faith.
fedup,
Are you debating with me? Yourself? or just some imaginary person on the blog?
Nowhere did I mention anything about a brick not being hate or did I try to spin it.
I didn’t bring up anything about persecution.
I could, there is a whole book full of how Christians are routinely attacked and persecuted.
It is by no means my complaining, but a refutation to your little speech about how liberals don’t do anything bad and it is all those big bad Republicans.
And then you wonder why I talk down to you?
None of you geniuses have any idea who did it or why. I saw that someone suggested it could have even be staged for publicity. Not likely, but it could have been.
Point is, there you are telling others what they should think or say about it, and you are clueless yourself.
Don’t you get it outlander?
The posters here KNOW that there are people in that town who are Christians and KNOW who the perpetrators are and the “church leaders” are not doing anything…
It must be some big small town Christian conspiracy to get those rainbow flag supporting homosexuals.
Or perhaps, and most likely, it was a bunch of small town kids who were bored and don’t need much of an excuse to go do some vadalism.
Do we know who did this? No. Do we know why? Oh, hell, yeah. The only question, presented on this thread, is the extent to which fire-breathing pastor-spew influenced it.
The question being presented, then, is whether a substantial portion of the Christian community in this small town has encouraged this kind of thinking, even if they did not condone the result.
There’s no way of knowing exact numbers. Probably many did not. But. .
“Knight said a local minister confronted him at his business and told him that he and his son ‘ought to be big enough to take it down.’ Knight refused, in no uncertain terms.”
Then someone cut it down.”
Taking into account the 70 percent vote on the Hate Amendment, and the genesis of this whole controversy, it stands to reason that the persons in question at least shared the prevalent fundamentalist view toward gays. Let’s not forget, however much as it’s conveniently disavowed NOW, most of those who supported that amendment were perfectly happy with throwing these people in jail for their “immoral” acts. Lawrence v. Texas was lambasted as a liberal activist abomination for making this impossible.
Having lived in a despicable small town at one time, I am all too aware of the groupthink that can place. A single church can dominate the whole community.
Rage,
When was the last time someone was actually thrown in jail?
If, and I do say IF, any of what you say is true about the great Christian influence and hate filled speech then dont you think it stands to reason that there might be a bit more happening than just this?
You loving liberal tolerant people keep making all these generalizations about how it is the church influnce and a prevailing attitude. If that was the case these wouldn’t be such small isolated incidents.
Is this that wonderful tolerance you keep talking about? Where you make hasty generalizations about entire groups of people?
Actually, I wasn’t the one who raised the issue. But I wasn’t going to look the other way either.
How am I being intolerant?
I have a good feeling that it was a group of juveniles.
Juveniles like to stir the pot! Believe me I know, I was one of those juveniles.
Now if it wasnt, then the stereo-typical backwoods ignorant Kansas image may not be too far off.
Your’re probably right about that, GaryC. But that isn’t how this started.
Rage- Sad, but true- I think you’re probably right. That’s the ugly side of small secular societies: the thought-police rule.
Just to throw some gas on the fire really quick Gary, Rage and Gster but if it were young people (which i think it was as well), where is it these young minds usually get their belief system from?
Answer: Their parents…
Tony- I have to agree with your statement. Bias, as do other qualities, seem to be self-perpetuating.
This is nutz! We have no idea who did this, we know little to nothing about Meade, and here we sit, leveling accusations at Christians (or conservatives, or whatever).
“if it were young people (which i think it was as well), where is it these young minds usually get their belief system from?”
Jeez Tony, I did a lot of bone-head things when I was a kid that weren’t influenced by anything but my bone-headedness.
“You and your people threw that brick just as sure as the hand that threw it.”
Now that’s so far over the top, it’s clear off the planet. Since when do we judge whole classes of people by the actions of one or a few? Seems to me a lot of conclusions are being jumped to with no facts.
Maybe we should all chill out and see what REALLY happened. Some of us are going to feel pretty foolish if this turns out to be a stupid prank.
It would be funny if the local preacher threw it.
Maybe it was Phelps, or Fox!!!
Rage–
Thanks for the few insights this thread has provided so far.
1. I don’t think the people who threw the brick through the window were Christians.
But I have little doubt that THEY think they’re Christians.
2. As for Christians being persecuted, a good place to start is the Arab Christians in Lebanon and Palestine and Iraq who are being persecuted by our “allies” like Israel and the Iraqi government.
3. Finding some bizarre example of discrimination BY gays is a perfect example of “bear and squirrel stew.” They try to make it sound like a squirrel is just as big as bear.
When you can find an example of a gay gang who strings up a straight guy on a fence (like Matthew Shephard) until he freezes to death or a liberal who blows up a federal building (like right-wing former military Timothy McVey) full of workers and their little kids because he’s mad about Waco . . . when you can find a liberal who says that McVey should have blown up The Washington Times or Fox News like Ann Coulter did, then you will have a point worth discussing.
“Tolerance is the most dangerous word in America.” Terry Fox
What does that mean to you, Nathan?
To me and anybody else who can understand the English language it means exactly what it says. Don’t tolerate what we hate–gays, feminism, secular humanism, etc. etc.
But it’s nice to know that you don’t hold the Muslim clerics who preach hatred against the US responsible for terrorist acts, Nathan.
You can’t have it both ways.
Either Fox is wrong for his message of intolerance and so are the firebrand Islamic clerics, or Fox is okay and so are the Muslim haters.
RedRad,
You need to show me where Terry fox has ever preached that we should hurt or hate homosexuals.
Terry Fox has not and does not preach that we should go out and kill, hate, hurt, or do anything other than love homosexuals.
Your trying to lump him with people who kill and rape others who disagree is quite frankly sad and pathetic.
As far as tolerance goes, there are two distinctly different meanings of the word when you are using it.
There is the actual meaning of tolerance and then there is the liberal one that is constantly thrown around.
Tolerance as defined by those on the left I do think is dangerous. I don’t know if it is the “most” dangerous word, but I think it is bad.
Just as you assert with the most bizzare and extreme cases that those on the right are the only ones who do sick and wrong things, I brought up one from the left.
Your trying to say that liberals don’t do anything but tolerate while Conservatives are the ones out killing is absurd.
There is a big difference in a Muslim Cleric saying that all infidels must die, martyrdom is honorable when killing infidels
and
Terry Fox saying that we should support an Amendment against homosexual marriage.
When members of Terry Fox’s church start strapping bombs to themselves and walking into a gay pride parade blowing themsleves up then you might have a comparison.
Try again, you make it too easy. Once again you wonder why I talk down to you?
You people are so ignorant.You have no clue who Terry and Barbara Fox are.I DO!!!!!Terry uses a confrontational style of evangelism. He doesn’t need to apologize for loving people and loving GOD and HIS word. Terry has ALWAYS preached love for ALL sinners from the pulpit. He has NEVER ONCE said anything about hating people. Unfortunately, because of his biblical stand on social issues, he has become the target of idiots who don’t have a clue.He has sacrificed much personally and professionally to do so.We at Immanuel love and accept all people. We disciple and mentor them. We support and defend each other when we’re right and discipline each other when we’re wrong.
Uhm, X:
“Scrawled on the brick was the word ‘fag.’ Another brick fell short of the building, J.R. Knight told The Eagle editorial board. It said, ‘Get the f— out of town.’
You’re right; that’s a pretty stupid prank, to say the least. And a chilling one at that. It’s called “intimidation.”
Perhaps it was nothing more than a couple kids reacting to the idiocy of one preacher and a few other people. Or their parents. Or a website. Or rebelling against their hippie-liberal parent.
Or maybe–just maybe–an unstable member of the pastor’s congregation.
Or was it perhaps a perverse joke, not meant seriously at all.
The kids who removed a stop sign as a joke weren’t laughing when they got 15 years in prison, when people died as a result.
I suppose the underlying theme developing here is one of the (possibly legal) consequences of speech. I’m not going there. I merely suggest that the obvious hate they expressed for homosexuals probably did not originate with them, and close-knit small towns tend have overarching ideologies in charge.
Meade Rocks! Yay Meade! (until I learn differently)
As a general rule, I like New Yorkers too, since there’s several of million of them, you know.
So leftists believe in free speech, huh? The leftists who run Canada and Europe have jailed thousands for questioning the “holocaust” immigration policy or for merely uttering the words paki or nigger! spare me the sanctimony and hypocrisy, please!
Viva La raza Blanco!!!
Ian,
As much as I disagree with the crap those people say, you do bring up a good point about the word “hate”
If the liberals had their way any Christian who said one thing against homosexual would be locked up for promoting hate.
Look at them here!
They compare Terry Fox to terrorists because he doesn’t agree with the homosexual lifestyle.
I bet they would lock him up for inciting violence with his “supposed” hate speech.
I have never done anything hateful to a homosexual in my life and for expressing my views here I am constantly told that I “hate” homosexuals.
There is that loving liberal tolerance for you… unless you disagree with them.
I think that people like Nathan shouldn’t be allowed to get married.
That’s not hateful, is it?
Nah . . . that’s just my opinion.
No hate at all.
I wouldn’t think so either CapnAmerica. We are getting somewhere now!
I don’t hate poligamist, but I don’t think they should be able to legally be married to as many people as the want to.
I don’t hate people who have incest. I just don’t think they should legally be married either.
We have restrictions on many different types of relationships on getting married.
“If the liberals had their way any Christian who said one thing against homosexual would be locked up for promoting hate.”
Uhm, Nathan, I think I’m a liberal, and I’ve never even implied such a thing.
BTW, my e-mail is live too.
Rage- Nathan said that, but he didn’t say that!!He allows himself that option. It’s Nathanspeak- only his rules apply!!
Nathan,Lock up Terry and Joe and Fred? Of course not! I want them to have plenty of rope to hang themselves. I want them to reveal themselves for the bad joke they’ve made of themselves. I want them to go the way of the Bull Connors and Jesse Helmses of the world. But until then, I don’t want them to hurt any more of my friends!
“I don’t hate polygamist, but I don’t think they should be able to legally be married to as many people as the want to.”
I just want to say, just imagine for a min being married to like 5 of your wives…
Why would you want to!
I do say thought, if you could do it and remain sane, than he should be allowed to!
Jed,
What friend of yours did Terry hurt?
What kind of hurt are we talking about, is your friends feelings hurt because Terry doesn’t endorse his lifestyle choice?
Please let me know. You are renowned for all of these supposed friends of yours who are hurt, killed, and persecuted by the Christians.
I would think you would have gone to the authorities with it by now…
I suggest people re-read XXX posts on this thread. He posses the most logical and common sense on the issue.
I agree NoJoCo!
“If the liberals had their way any Christian who said one thing against homosexual would be locked up for promoting hate.”
Care to back that up nathan? I’m calling you out as a liar.
Ben?
Calling me a liar? LOL
It was not a statement of fact, it is an opinion made on observation of how things are played out, a prediction.
With all that said…
Lets look at the way the left has been trying to pass laws against “hate.” They are pushing for crimes to be even worse if it was for “hate”
If you look at what I would call more left/liberal places like Europe, they have also went down the same kind of road on banning “hate”
Not only that, the way that I am constantly told that I hate homosexuals by most of the liberals here when I don’t because of my opinion.
Many here label this Christian hate speech as inciting acts of violence.
Have you even been reading the comments here?
People here would have you believe that it is these “church leaders” who have incited this violence with their hate speech.
From there it is only a natural evolution into wanting those promoting hate or inciting violence locked up however ambigious it is.
XXX did have a good post.
He weighed in, made a good point and bowed out.
This makes him different from you Nathan. Why not let X’s post stand and leave it be? Is it because that while X is right that it is not necessarily Christians who did this attack it IS certainly SOME Christians who LOUDLY denounce homosexuals that foment the sort of hate that makes people destroy flags and throw bricks? Is there any other group other than certain evangelican Christians that openly decry and denounce homosexuality?
JR,
Once again, this is a blog. I come here to debate and discuss.
Besides, I am on duty right now staring at a wall with nothing to do. I am sitting here on standby just in case the world ends while everyone is out for the weekend.
So here I sit on the blog.
Nathan,Well, of course Terry doesn’t go around beating up gay people; all he has to do is call them abominations before the lord, and spread propaganda about some sort of “gay agenda” and his nut fringe will go do it for him. The RR leaders such as Fox know perfectly well that they incite violence, and not calling them on it is the same as saying Bin Laden didn’t blow up the WTC, it was just some misguided followers!
Nathan,Are you telling us that we taxpayers are paying you to evangelize?
Jed,
I try to evangelize whenever I get the chance, working or not.
You are not paying me to do it, I just get the wonderful opportunity to do it while I am here.
“Lets look at the way the left has been trying to pass laws against “hate.” They are pushing for crimes to be even worse if it was for “hate”"
Nathan,
For just a moment, let’s suspend belief. Just for fun and sake of argument.
If you were personally being discrimanted against because, say you’re a Christian, and someone was throwing bricks through your window or burning replicas of the Last Supper on your lawn or tying you with rope and dragging you, for miles, across the county, would you be in favor of stiffer laws for this sort of thing?
Do you think people who do these things do not hate? Is this just ‘intense dislike’ or maybe a new form of love?
It goes on. It needs to stop. And if the only way is to legislate stiffer laws, what’s the problem? I would think that you, as a Christian and taught to love others, would understand.
Jed,
Interesting comment. I might add a question. Did Hitler do his own killing of Jews, or did he incite others to do it?
Nathan is not going to like that analogy, I know.
“Besides, I am on duty right now staring at a wall with nothing to do. I am sitting here on standby just in case the world ends while everyone is out for the weekend.”
How sad. Wish we could be there to provide you more fun, Nathan. (That’s not sarcasm, btw.)
“Lets look at the way the left has been trying to pass laws against ‘hate.’ They are pushing for crimes to be even worse if it was for ‘hate.’”
Who is this amorphous “left” to which you refer? Talk about painting with a broad brush!
That said, you have a point, or would, if you weren’t so recklessly attacking everyone with concerns about apocolyptic preachers inciting violence. Jonathan Wallace has a good, concise summary of the issues, and the players:
http://www.spectacle.org/freespch/musm/hate.html
RD,Given some of his other opinions, I wouldn’t be surprised if Nathan denies the Holocaust ever happened.
Everyone jumps the gun and points their fingers to religious people when something bad happens to gays. Do you think that secular people don’t ridicule and do violence to gays out of sheer hatred for them? Please. Let’s be more reasonable with each other and remember that everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
Will,Prejudice has to be carefully taught, and the church has been the principal teacher, in this case. Much anti-gay bigotry has crossed into the secular world, but it’s mother lode has been religiously inspired and must be dealt with first.
Jed,
You never did answer my question about who your friends are that were hurt by Terry Fox.
Why have you not gone to the authorites?
No, I don’t deny that Hitler systematically, ruthlessly, and tragically rounded up and killed Jews and many others he thought were not the ideal.
Nathan, Nathan,”I would think you would have gone to the authorities with it by now…”Of course the authorities were notified at the time. Several of the cases that took place in the early ’60’s were never investigated, since the victims were “just fags.” At that time, police often turned a blind eye to gay-bashing, and occasionally participated in them.By the ’70’s, much to the disgust of at least six local ministers, cases were being prosecuted due to the efforts of a vocal gay rights movement, and the murderers of two of my friends are serving life sentences after the judge refused to allow the ministers to testify as character witnesses for the defense. One murder has so far gone unsolved, even with the best efforts of the police.
Can you please name those 6 local ministers please?
My question was more pertaining to who Terry Fox hurt as well, any names on that one?
Nathan,In case you’re curious, I’ve also lost two friends to AIDS, six to motorcycle accidents, two to Viet Nam, one to drugs and seven to cancer (including a daughter), one to MS and one to a stroke.
Jed,
We have gone through this several times before. You sit here saying how “Christians” are killers and killed your friends and that the church condoned it and preached it.
I and several others I do believe are still waiting for the evidence.
Nathan,That trial was a long time ago and while I attended it, I don’t remember their names, and never wanted to. I could probably waste time looking them up, but I’m not going to now. It was in the Eagle.As for Terry in particular, I don’t know of any that have been tied to him yet, but he’s taking the path that’s led to murder, assault and vandalism against gays in the past. It’s only a matter of time until assaults and deaths are committed by his nut fringe. So far, they’ve settled for vandalism for the most part, but that won’t last. Now that Fox has gone nationwide, his nut fringe is growing fast.
Nathan is right, leftism is anathema to free speech!
Bishop Henry in Calgary Canada will be facing a hate crime trial for merely expressing his opposition to gay marriage.
Pastor Green in Sweden has been warned to stop giving sermons and threatened with prison for his stance against gay marriage.
Of course, their are other protected classes that you can’t be critical of either, like muslims, blacks immigrants, jews, etc. People like Orianna Fallaci, Nick Griffin, Daivid Irving, Ernst Zundel, Brigitte Bardot and thousands of other have been tried, fined jailed and persecuted for merely speaking out aginst orthodox leftist positions on race, multiculturalism, the “holocaust” and/or immigration!
In Idaho, a guy named Lonnie Ray was put on trial for uttering the word “nigger” after a negro assaulted his wife. The negro in question didn’t face any charges for his assualt but the White guy was persecuted for his words.
This incident with the flag was obviously and act of petty vandalism. I fugured that enlightened ones like Jed would take the opportunity to put the blame on us backwards, evil Christians.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Will,”Everyone jumps the gun and points their fingers to religious people when something bad happens to gays.”
There sure seems to be a lot of that on this blog. I’m disturbed by who’s doing the jumping. I accept that a lot of Liberals on this blog are athiest. What I don’t understand is the virulent anti-Christian attitude. Something happens that we don’t like or agree with? Blame it on Christians whether there’s evidence or not.
So I pose a couple of questions to my Liberal friends:
Would the Democratic Party be better off without the support of Christians?
Would you prefer not to have the support of Christians on this blog?
Americans are Christian by a huge majority. Like it or not, we control BOTH parties. Don’t agree? Ask any politician what their views on faith are. How many non-Christians serve in Congress?
I don’t claim to be a great Christian, but I think I qualify as an average mainstream Christian. My faith colors my personal and political views. If it comes down to a hard choice, faith overrules politics. That’s just the nature of faith. I don’t judge a politician on their faith or lack thereof. But I would not support any politician who was anti-Christian. I would activly work against such a thing.
Like it or not, the Democratic Party is toast without the support of Christians. A suggestion. This would seem to be a perfect oportunity for a third party. Try the American Athiest party. Let’s see how far that goes.
XXX – I agree with you 100%. I want the support of ALL faith traditions, including those without organized faith. However, the extremists really don’t fit – and that includes the “ChristISTs” who would impose their own version of Sharia upon America.
XXX,
The core democrat part is judaized and that’s why they are anti-gun, anti-White and anti-Christan. They dems ceased being the party of the White working and middle class a long time ago. Don’t you remember how Dean was crucified when he talked a bout confederate flags and a “balanced” policy in the mid-east regarding the arabs and jews?
V.L.R.B!!
Ian, don’t get me started on a discussion about the Southern Cross, lol!
While I was never a big Dean fan, I admired his courage. A balanced policy in the Mid-East? Now there’s a concept.
RD,
In answer to your previous question about hate:
Why should it get more attention?
Does the fact that someone was killed out of hate make it deserve more punishment than someone killed out of passion?
You kill someone, you hurt someone, you should be punished…PERIOD.
Hate is such a subjective term. Look how dangerous it is here. I am constantly accused by almost everyone here that I hate homosexuals because of my opinion when I do not.
Christian leaders are constantly accused of inciting violence because of their “hate” speech.
You start making laws on “hate” and before you know it Christians can’t say anything against homosexuals because it is “hate” and it incites violence…
Look at other countries with “hate” laws.
Punish people who do wrong, hate is too subjective.
It could be the flip side too, what if I think and a majority think what you are saying is “hate” and we start limiting your speech to, because it is “hate?”
Hopefully the Courts would stop it, but you never know these days…
X, to the extent that anyone “jumps the gun and points their fingers to religious people when something bad happens to gays,” as CW puts it, that is wrong.
Perhaps some of us have been guilty of sloppy overgeneralizations (you’re certainly doing your part, even going out of your way to attack atheists–like that has anything to do with anything). But I don’t think anyone was attacking Christianity per se. Certainly no one was expressing bigotry toward Christians. Perhaps you’ve forgotten that most of the people on this blog are Christian, too.
To argue that conservative Christian influence isn’t at least likely in this case is to have one’s head buried in the sand.
“The Christian radio station quit holding its staff meetings in the restaurant, which cost the Knights an advertising outlet. In exchange for free meals, the station had plugged the Lakeway on air as a station sponsor.
“I just told J.R. that we’re a Christian radio station, and this whole controversy is going to give us problems,” station general manager Don Hughes said. “We’d just like to stay out of the controversy.””
“To the preacher who told him the rainbow offended him, J.R. said something like “take a hike.””
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/15214572.htm
I’m with Nathan on “hate speech” laws. The cure is worse than the disease. Aside from the unlikely persecution of Christians (which would still be wrong), there’s another concern. From my link to the Ethical Spectacle upthread:
“Nadine Strossen, president of the ACLU, replies that laws against speech are always used to ban unpopular minority speech rather than well-settled majority vices or prejudices. Just as Canada has used its official adoption of Mackinnon’s principles to ban gay and lesbian speech, while mainstream pornography thrives, British hate speech prosecutions tend to target black groups rather than white skinheads.”
Brandenburg v. Ohio established a standard of “inciting are directed toward imminent lawless action.” (A landmark decision by the damned liberal activist judges, in 1969). That works for me.
Otherwise, see U.S. Constitution, Amendment I.
Rage,”you’re certainly doing your part, even going out of your way to attack atheists”
Show me where I’ve said anything that could be considered an attack on athiests.
On the other hand, would you like for me to show you scattergun attacks on Christians?
Rage,”To argue that conservative Christian influence isn’t at least likely in this case is to have one’s head buried in the sand.”
Have I said at any time that that’s not a possibility? I don’t know and neither do you. It’s just as likely that it was done by kids or drunken rednecks. Considering the Knight’s past record, they could have done it for attention. There’s all kinds of possibilities as to who could have done it. To say that this hate crime was caused by Christian influence without knowing that for a fact is bigotry. That’s the same as saying that if a black commits a crime, it’s because he was black.
“Perhaps you’ve forgotten that most of the people on this blog are Christian, too.”
Hardly. But there are a lot of non-Christians on this blog who don’t hesitate to attack Christians. Remember, my point has always been that just like any other group of people, Christians come in a lot of different varieties. I’ve stated that numerous times.
I challenge you to find a single instance where I’ve criticized anybody on the basis of athiesm. I’ve been far more critical of my Christian brothers and sisters.
“Seems J.R. and Robin Knight moved to Meade in southwest Kansas a few years ago to pursue their dream of running a bed and breakfast.”
I spent my high school years in a very small town (pop. 900). In small-town Kansas, being an “outsider” or haviing “different ideas” can be worse than being gay or black or Democrat or non-Christian.
“Like it or not, the Democratic Party is toast without the support of Christians. A suggestion. This would seem to be a perfect oportunity for a third party. Try the American Athiest party. Let’s see how far that goes.”
By the way, you misspelled “atheist.” The rest of your rant was a red herring, suggesting completely out of the blue that the resident liberals want to somehow drive Christians from the Democratic party–like that would be possible (what, were you talking about Jews?).
I’m pretty sure Redrad is a Christian. Jed is a Unitarian. I don’t know about the rest (and neither do you).
As I’ve repeatedly said, to conclude with certainty that self-described “Christians” did this would be wrong. One can make that point without all the whining.
“There’s all kinds of possibilities as to who could have done it.”
Right.
“That’s the same as saying that if a black commits a crime, it’s because he was black.”
Wrong. A belief system is not an inborn trait, and not even liberal Christianity (or atheism, Islam, or raelianism, for that matter) should be immune from criticism.
If this happened out of the blue, and the person arrested just happened to be a self-described Christian, your analogy would be valid.
There has been a very public (and ridiculous!) controversy over this in a very small town (pop. 1658), and it’s seems pretty obvious that many are at least using their religion as a basis for confirming their own prejudices. You think “kids and drunken rednecks” in a small town aren’t influenced by the prevailing attitudes? Get real. Churches often integrate the communities’ prejudices. Why do you think, in the battles over slavery and civil rights, each side claimed to have God on their side? We see the same phenom over gay rights today.
As I said–and I repeat–I don’t believe that anyone but the perpetrators are responsible for their own actions. But ideas matter.
I would suggest you re-read writerdog’s post.
X,I’m non-christian, not anti-christian. Some of my best friends are christians. Some of those christians are gay.I would be happy as a clam to let the christians be christian, just so long as they let me be what I am. Most christians are quite happy to let me be me, and not attack me or mine, but a few of them think it’s their god-given mandate to force me to pretend to be “saved,” and to attack my friends for being what they are. I have no desire to fight them, but if they bring a fight to me, I assure you they’ll get more than a fight in return.I have had, over my entire lifetime, many gay and lesbian friends, wonderful people who a few years back saved my life and made it bearable during an awful time. During that period, many christians I had counted as friends simply disappeared, couldn’t take the grief, but their place was filled by my gay friends.Now, my gay friends are under attack by self-proclaimed christian leaders, with most other christians standing silent. While that has been the case for as long as I can remember, the attacks have grown more vicious in recent years, and their propaganda has become the same dehumanizing shit that despots have always used to prepare their supporters for bloodbaths.If you thought I would stand silent while my friends were hurt, you were wrong! When you attack them, you attack me, and I will defend them with everything at my disposal.I would much rather not have to. My friends and I have done nothing to earn your hatred, other than refuse to pretend we are just like you. I would be glad to offer a goodfaith truce if you agree to do the same. The deal is on the table.
Rage,”By the way, you misspelled “atheist.”
Well zippity doo-dah! Criticizing spelling is the last refuge when you’ve missed the point. How petty.
“The rest of your rant was a red herring, suggesting completely out of the blue that the resident liberals want to somehow drive Christians from the Democratic party–like that would be possible (what, were you talking about Jews?).”
No, not the resident liberals, just SOME of the resident liberals. Red herring? where in Gods name do you come off with that? And why would you drag the Jews into this?
“There’s all kinds of possibilities as to who could have done it.”
“Right.”
Is that the sound of a mind closing? Sounds to me like you’ve made yours up.
“A belief system is not an inborn trait, and not even liberal Christianity (or atheism, Islam, or raelianism, for that matter) should be immune from criticism.”
But we’re not talking about criticism. We’re talking about attack. We’re talking about bigotry.
Making an assumption or jumping to a conclusion that has no basis in fact that judges people based on their religious belief is indeed bigotry.
“I would suggest you re-read writerdog’s post.”
I read his post. He makes sense.
You don’t.Talk about a red herring.
Jed,Ok, you’re an avowed non-Christian. I invite you to answer the 2 questions I posed:
Would the Democratic Party be better off without the support of Christians?
Would you prefer not to have the support of Christians on this blog?
A simple yes or no will do. You keep claiming you have friends (and family?) that have been hurt/killed by Christians, but we get no details. It’s very hard to judge the merits of claims like that if we don’t know the particulars.
“Now, my gay friends are under attack by self-proclaimed christian leaders”.
I think the operational term is “self-proclaimed”. These people don’t speak or act for me.
“My friends and I have done nothing to earn your hatred, other than refuse to pretend we are just like you.”
Show me where I’ve ever said anything that would indicate that I hate you or your friends. Now I’m going to make an assumption here and guess that you’re refering to your gay friends. Correct me if that’s wrong. I’ve got a history on this blog of supporting gay rights and I voted against the hate amendment.
Jed, to be perfectly honest I find your stories about friends dissapearing and being killed less than credible. I’m not calling you a liar, but some facts and documentation would seem to be in order.
I have questions, provide me with some facts.
X,I have no answers for your two questions. I would simply hope that christians have sympathy for other human beings, whether they are democrats or republicans, and act in a decent manner towards everyone.I apologize if I lumped you personally in with the hate amendment group. I didn’t intend to do that.If, by documenting my experiences, you mean naming names, I don’t out people, even dead people, since they still have families that could be hurt by it. So, I guess you’ll just have to believe or disbelieve as it suits you.
Jed, I’ll accept that as I have no arguement with you.
“I would simply hope that christians have sympathy for other human beings, whether they are democrats or republicans, and act in a decent manner towards everyone.”
I would concur with that statement. I’ve tried to live my life that way. Being human, Christians are subject to the same failings and shortcommings that anybody else is. I don’t give Christians a free pass. As anybody who’s read these threads knows, I’ve taken my share of Christians to task. I’ve been critical of evangelicals and fundamentalists on many occasions.
Christians aren’t perfect by any means. But if we follow the call, we should try to be.
Regards,XXX
X,Again, My apologies.I guess My main problem is resolving the shortcomings christians admit with the charges within the christian community over who is a “true christian” and who isn’t, and the statements by so many christians that their path is the only true one.I have always sought my own path, and had marvelous adventures doing so. I have met and come to know so many people I would never have encountered on anyone else’s “true path,” and experiences I would have been told to avoid, that have meant so much to me.I’m not a follower, and I have no desire to be a leader. The questions I seek answers to are strictly my own, and the answers I’ve found probably wouldn’t interest anyone else. My apologies to those who must justify their beliefs by the number of followers they attract.
Jed/Rage,
I am a devout Christian and I can tell you that vadalism and assault are not Christian acts. Some of you made a leap in logic and assumed that fundamentalist christians were somehow involved.
I fell that “Marriage” should be between a man and a woman but homosexuals should certainly have legal rights such as being able to will property and hospital visitation and such. I can tell you with certainty that if I were witness to a gay-bashing, I would intervene to help the person being assualted. And, I am sure that Nathan, XXX, CrusaderWill and the vast, vast majority of Christians would do the same!
V.L.R.B!!
Thanks for the character reference Ian.
(I’ll probably get beat up for that, too, lol!)
Jed,I never voted for any hate ammendment. I can indeed empathize and identify with people getting singled out and discriminated against because of something as superficial as their sexual orientation. Propagating fear and intimidation through illicit acts of violence are not actions which I condone. If I lived in Meade, I would definitely assist in the apprehension and prosecution of the perpetrators within the full extent of the law.
X,The fact is you misinterpreted pretty much every statement I made. I’m not surprised, then, that it didn’t make sense to you.
For instance, since when does the word “right” not mean “right”? Particularly when it’s consistent with everything I’d said up to this point.The fact is, unless you were going off on JR’s one post, I was the the only self-proclaimed atheist on this thread (”American Atheist party?”). Unlike your anger about statements directed against SOME Christians–however harsh and perhaps over-the-top as they were–it was hard not to take that one personally. I’m not sure why you saw an Atheist Conspiracy lurking in the text, but it’s not my problem.
The only person to even mention politics was Ian, and he of course mentioned the Jews. If you were not gratuitously attacking atheists (and OF COURSE you weren’t–right?), the Jews that Ian mentioned seemed a plausible alternative explanation for your impromptu political statement (Now, THAT was sarcasm!: Learn the difference!)
Incidently, I wasn’t dogging Ian either. He’s sounding more reasonable than you.
At no time did I attack Christians as a group, not even conservative Christians per se. There were some ill-advised statements about the good people of Meade, which I acknowledged (and which, I would guess, you also dismissed as sarcasm, ignoring everything else I said).
Having said that, I must say, I was also surprised that Jed seemed unaware of your own views on Christianity. To the extent that others might make that mistake, you have a point.
KFG does have a sound argument. If we really cared about the sanctity of marriage then why didn’t we deal with divorce, since that has tangible ramifications on married couples and their families. To make a constitutional amendment based on a bias of sexual orientation smacks of discrimination. To keep one’s true motives in the shadows while parading around as champions of righteousness is not the way of the Lord our God. Perhaps those who signed such legislation should reevaluate the reasons by which they did so before they start making other laws by which other groups in society ought to follow? If we can not be honest with ourselves and use bias as a framework for denying something so fundamentally important to a group of people such as marriage, then we are the most wretched of characters. So finally, can anyone find a valid reason why homosexuals shouldn’t marry without postulating an unlikely future hypothesis such as “homosexual marriages will endanger heterosexual marriages” or “homosexual marriages will make homosexual children”? Because I’ve looked at almost every Christian website and I’ve thought about it for quite a long time, and honestly, I can’t find a reason not to other than the fact that the Bible says that homosexual acts are sins. But are we replacing the Constitution with the Bible? One of the things I admire about America and Americans is our uncanny ability to produce a pluralistic society which includes peoples so diverse yet are able to coexist in close proximity with each other in peace and harmony. We are all able to practice our religions or lack thereof without the interference of a bias state which caters to one specific religious belief system. If this balance is to be preserved, then we must not turn our country into a mock-theocracy which would be nothing more than a dictatorship.
This has all the earmarks of another “Professor Mireki Incident”.
Rage,You’ve obviously lost your marbles.
“For instance, since when does the word “right” not mean “right”? Particularly when it’s consistent with everything I’d said up to this point.”
I don’t know. Maybe when “right” is used as a snotty self-serving remark?
“The fact is, unless you were going off on JR’s one post, I was the the only self-proclaimed atheist on this thread (”American Atheist party?”).”
The “fact” is, until just now, I didn’t know what your religious beliefs were. You don’t seem to have much of a grasp of the “facts”, do you?
“The only person to even mention politics was Ian”
Wrong again. I mentioned politics.
“If you were not gratuitously attacking atheists (and OF COURSE you weren’t–right?), the Jews that Ian mentioned seemed a plausible alternative explanation for your impromptu political statement (Now, THAT was sarcasm!: Learn the difference!)”
I don’t “gratuitously” attack anybody. When I attack, it’s a full frontal assault. That was NOT sarcasm. Sometimes a suggestion is just a suggestion. Learn the difference? Don’t you lecture me, boy.
“At no time did I attack Christians as a group, not even conservative Christians per se.”
Ok smart guy, show me where I ever said you attacked Christians. Believe it or not, you weren’t even a consideration. As I said, untill now, I didn’t know what your beliefs are.
“(and which, I would guess, you also dismissed as sarcasm, ignoring everything else I said).”
I didn’t pay that much attention. I wasn’t expecting to be attacked by you.
You need to get a grip. I assure you that you’ve totally missed my point. It’s really not all about you.
Since you don’t seem to comprehend what this is about, this discussion is over.
You’ve attacked me without reason 3 times now on this thread. If you value the peace, I wouldn’t suggest a fourth.
Ian,”I am a devout Christian and I can tell you that vadalism and assault are not Christian acts.”
Oh, but propagating racist hatred is? Not much of a leap from that to vandalism and assault.
Hi folks,
This blog seems to have lost sight of the original issue: That bricks bearing hate speech were thrown through a hotel/restaurant window. This is not an issue of “petty vandalism” as some have said. “Petty vandalism” was the cutting down of the original flag two weeks ago. A small minority in Meade has now escalated a disagreement over peaceful free expression into actively committing a crime of hatred.
I spent most of Sunday in Meade, and I came away with the impression that many of the townspeople know who committed this crime. It’s now up to the good citizens of Meade to stand up against violence and intimidation, and turn the perpetrator(s) over to law enforcement. Failing to act will only lead the criminals to believe that there will be no consequenses for their actions, and will embolden them to commit ever-more serious crimes.
The issue is clear: Violent acts are being perpetrated against people whose only offense is their exercies of their First Amendment rights. No matter what your political affiliation or religious beliefs, if you count yourself as a loyal American, you must agree there is no place in our society for this type of behavior. And you must speak out.
Thomas WittChair, Kansas Equality Coalition
Welcome Thomas, and thanks for the information.Yes, after a while these threads can and do disintegrate into he-said, she-said circular hate fests.Thanks for getting us back on point.
Jed, I think Ian must know a different christ than we do.His christ is white and hates brown people.
and Nathan’s god wears camo and hates gays.
See any patterns here?
The Eagle’s star reporter, Deb Gruver, is covering the story in Meade.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/15275899.htm
They sure are getting a lot of publicity (translating to dollars)out of this. It couldn’t have turned out better if they had planned it themselves.
blame the victim
Of course, it couldnt be the ignorant bastard hillbillies conducting a christian jiahd.
no. couldnt be.
they musta done it themselves…..
Sounds a little like the 9/11 conspiracy theories?
Their “california ways”? heheheheh
Oh. I get it now.
Democracy and freedom of speech. Ya know, THOSE california ways.
Of course, the hillbilly snake handlers in Kansas couldnt get their pea brains around those “california ways”.
Behind the iron wheat curtain, we dont like change.
Right TM? rockl? gertie? ruby? LMNOP?
Why do the religious fanatics in kansas hate democracy?
Why do they hate america?
Christian jihad?
It was a brick thrown through a window…
When Christians start blowing up gays with bombs on a regular basis then you can call it a jihad.
It is called perspective KFG, you have none.
Just some bigoted assholes, who’s perspective is warped by the government sponsered drug–alcohol.
I don’t know Nathan, making constitutional amendments against a group of people in our society does constitute malicious intent. The fact that over 89% of self-professed Christians in Kansas took legal action against a group of people doesn’t help your arguments that such an action was benign; nor does it give any credence that such an action was rational and not borne out of sheer prejudice towards homosexuals themselves.
Farm Gal,”Their “california ways”? heheheheh”I’ll believe it! I have a friend who came from small-town Kansas, went to KU and then spent three years in New York City. When she returned to her hometown and bought the local hotel, she was “that scarlet woman from New York, and you know what she’ll turn the hotel into!” That was almost 40 years ago, and many people in that town haven’t gotten over it yet!
I emailed the Knights, and offered my support. They replied that on 8-27 the Phelps posse is coming to town (I’m assuming they won’t be there to hand out milk & cookies). Just thought I’d pass that along, in case anyone wants to make a road trip out to Meade and support the hotel owners.
Mr. Witt,
What exactly is the nature of your Stalinist “equality” outfit?
V.L.R.B!!
Ian,Whatever his outfit is, it’s got to look better than that white sheet you wear!
HEY justme
I might be interested, ill have to see what happens between now and then with the business but i bet i could make it…
Do us a favor, keep us posted with your plans and maybe we can meet and car pool out there.
Post it up here or on the newest open thread…