National backers of intelligent design insist that Tuesday’s defeat of two anti-evolution candidates for the State Board of Education was not a setback. Boy, it sure looked like one, as moderates will have at least a 6-4 majority on the State BOE next year. National science groups also see the election as a big loss for the ID movement. “I don’t think there is any other way to interpret it,” Nick Matzke, a spokesman for the National Center for Science Education, told The Lawrence-Journal World. He added: “If they are having trouble winning in Kansas, a red state, and in the Republican primary, it has to be somewhat discouraging. This was their crown jewel.”
But the science groups are wise not to dismiss the ID proponents. “They’ve had a series of setbacks,” Eugenie C. Scott, director of the NCSE, told The New York Times, “but I don’t think for one moment that this means the intelligent design people will fold their tents and go away.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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75 Comments
Connie Morris should NOT have taunted the Darwinists with her “bed time story” stuff.She was also unwise on her travel expense requests.These things figured heavily in her loss.Folks, the intensity of voter interest in Darwin vs ID is really rather low.Few go to the polls with that issue in mind.I wish the issue would go away, for selfish reasons. I know that it makes conservative Catholics and others uneasy.Personally, I dont feel threatened by ID but wish they would be more tactful and less abrasive in making their cases.—-In the future, we should look at the travel expenses of County and State officials other than School Board members.Education consumes the largest portion of state and local budgets.However, local schoolboards work for free, most of the time.The State BOE makes very little, not enough to compensate for their time. I think it is just a travel expense and per diem.When a local school board member uses a cell phone to keep in touch with family because of late meetings we go nuts.When a State BOE member goes somewhere that she thinks will enhance her ability to serve, we go nuts.However, even with these expenses, whether justified or “outrageous” BOE members, both state and local, are volunteers and the Eagle should not “expose” their expenses without comparing the fact that they have NO salary at all.Compare that to the junkets taken by City Council, County Commission, and even School District employees.And YES you have my promise that when a Democrat is attacked for a justifiable travel expense, I will point out the pitiful reimbursement we give to school district representatives and state BOE members.I would have more respect for the Eagle if they would expose ALL travel expenses in every branch of government.
“Mom, they did it too. Waaaa. Mommy, they ran up the travel bill first and worst, waaaaaa”.
Good grief, government at all levels in kansas is corrupt and it is ok because it is pervasive? Connie should not be held accountable because the thieving local officials (who are majority REPUBLICAN) do it too?
Woof.
“and the Eagle should not “expose” their expenses without comparing the fact that they have NO salary at all.”
OMG, too much. I do indeed think the WE should expose people who “claim” to get no salary then stuff their pockets with travel money!
When they take taxpayer funded junkets to Key West to visit their children and then call it a bidness trip?
It’s ok and should be secret because… wait for it… they get no salary?
WTF is it about truth in advertising that you republicans dont understand? If you get no salary but make it up in travel, we shouldnt know about it?
Jesus wept.
I totally think the r’s should get their money back if they are paying you…
Hey girl, I propose we give him the nic ‘bubble boy’, from the bursting the lib’s bubble comment.How command thee, Oh Queen?Yea or nay?
He hates these libs and this lib paper and he’s gonna show us the light, I guess that bubble filters light?
heheh.
I knight thee Sir Bubbleboy the First!!!!!!!!!!
Done. By edict of my Queen, I am commanded to, from here forward, always refer to Paul F as—-BUBBLE BOY.So says the Queen.
Stop with the names and quit acting like five-year-olds.
I see you’re still out of JoCo. Hope you get some soon. :)
Paul:”When a local school board member uses a cell phone to keep in touch with family because of late meetings we go nuts.When a State BOE member goes somewhere that she thinks will enhance her ability to serve, we go nuts.”
Once again, Paul is posting without benefit of having facts. Connie paid $339 a night at a hotel in Florida for a conference on magnet schools. The cost is high (and I travel to FL related to work and know most places there are pretty expensive). The conference she was attending was about magnet schools. Know what the problem with that is Paul? How many magnet schools are there in Connie’s district? That’s right Paul, zero.
I have heard the rumor that she was staying close to where a child goes to college. So that may have been the motivation for the trip.
But an obscene junket like this one was just breathtaking in its magnitude of waste.
http://jgrr.blogspot.com/2005/06/connie-morris-wastes-your-money.html
Folks, I dont think Connie was smart, I was not defending her.There is a political double standard on travel.I know this first hand.I know at least a dozen local employees of various branches of government that take trips all the time for various conventions and training classes.Fairness used to be a Democrat value.I do not think that all travel is corrupt.I do think all travel should get more scrutiny.”Selective exposure” by the press is as bad as “selective enforcement” by law enforcement.—I notice that you dont disagree with my point: few people list ID vs Darwin as one of their “top 10″ issues.Other issues determined this race.I like Connie, but she played her hand badly.What more can I say?
“I like Connie” speaks voulumes bubble boy.
“I notice that you dont disagree with my point: few people list ID vs Darwin as one of their “top 10″ issues.Other issues determined this race.”
On the why Connie was voted out, I tend to think you are right.
I did not like her and her removal from the BOE was the best thing to happen to this state in a long time.
You can google her name and check out her autobiography. If you like obnoxious personality disorders, Connie has to be the girl for you.
Paul, maybe you know the answer to this one — is it a rule that ultra-conservative republican women have to have a history of lurid sexual promiscuity and drug abuse? See the life stories of Connie Morris and Susan Wagle as examples.
BTW, I recognize there are logical problems with the above question, but I was just wondering, you know…
Connie Morris is just one of those people that likes to preach to others and then do as she wants (ie most Conservative Republicans). This is why she was brought down by the voters. Enough of the voters finally caught on to her and neatly booted her off the board.
What’s wrong NoJoke.Don’t like to have fun?I believe it’s just good fun with plenty of imagination.You’ve got a nic, don’t you wanna play?
Bubble boy like Connie, but NoJoke not like jokes.
Look at me Queenie, I’m acting like a 5 yr. old!!Wheeeeeee!
Another example of the Repub woman thing I mention above. Brenda Landwehr disclosing that she had an abortion. I don’t know the context of this disclosure, but why would anybody need to know that? Is there some political advantage to sordidness?
Off topic:Today’s Bushim:
“The was on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorize himself”Grand Rapids, MI 01/29/2002
I guess the easy answer to my question is the story of redemption — “I have come from being a trollup to the great person I am today.” Do voters really buy that crap???
Thanks gster. That W is such a communicator.
TRACY,Sounds like you’re the queen. You definately have the name to go with it.
That’s a joke son, I said joke that is.
Oh look, I’m acting like a five year old with a tu-tu and a fairy wand!Wheeeee!!
Tracy, here is a magnifying glass and tweezers in case you go looking for nojoco’s …. um….
…sense of humor and irony.
heheheheheheheheheheheh
Oops, probably not polite to laugh here.
A tutu AND a fairy wand?
Will you marry me?
Oh, I guess we cant as long as you insist on wearing that damn tutu.
And me already in my tux…..
Alright, forget the tu-tu, just too weird.How about something lacy?Oh, I know, a Catholic school girl uniform!Of course, I’ll have to nix the beard and cover my bald head, but we could make this work, hon.
KFG -Tracy’s already married and bigamy is against the law. Sorry. That’s ok, his wife likes it when he wears his tutu. If I ask real nice MM brings out his tutu and wears it for me (yes I have pictures – halloween).
Well damn, if both tutu wearing men are off limits, what am I to do with this slightly used tux?
Not to mention all that rice and Wagner……
Where is an elvis impersonator when we need him?
Julie, last time I donned a costume for halloween, I went as Alex from “A Clockwork Orange”.It was excellent, and made me feel oh so EVIL.
Wagner, Oh no girl.Alex only listens to Ludwig Von.(the glorious Ludwig Von)
Ahh right- who spiked the punch?
Come on gster, let’s act juvenile!Wheeee!Too bad it’s not snowin’, we could run outside and pee our name in the snow!Wee-Weeeeeee!
I want the recipe.
SteveI would suggest that Brenda wanted to make sure that we all knew she was not judging anyone, that she herself had personal experience with the issue.Steve, you should avoid digging up trash on people if it is not politically relevent, dont you think?I think Susan Wagle is a fine person.As far as past conduct is concerned, let me ask a question Steve:If you or a member of your family needed alcohol or drug counseling, would you seek out someone who had experienced a similar problem, someone who could relate?Or would you go to a tea-totaler who had no idea, no clue, about the social or personal issues surrounding the problem?
Gster -we could tell you – but then, well, we’d have to dispose of your body and I’m running out of room. sorry.
Damm!! I’ll have to come up with my own fantasy.
GSTER, like I say nowadays,I USED TO BE ON DRUGSNOW I’M ON MEDICATION
Or:I used to be on drugs,now I’m still coasting.
I read the various comments and am amazed that no one seems to discuss anything. The whole jest of this forum is to name call people who disagree with you?
Darrell, you are an observant person. I am pretty amazed at this thread myself.
You will have to forgive the lefties here. They got a couple of wins last night. Since that doesn’t happen much, they don’t know how to handle it.
Now, the ganging up and the name calling, well that is just defending their own, so I am told.
Darrell,Unfortunately that is the MO of many of the people who post here.
Oh, and I apologize to all of the five-year-olds out there.
Witness the fuddy duddy right!
They got their tails kicked Tuesday.
Now a few posters having a little fun is target of their derision.
Oh and I will take this opportunity to again invite NoJoCo to get over himself.
“The whole jest of this forum is to name call people who disagree with you?”
Naw, Darrell, we all KINDS of jest here! Even some good jokes!
Testing 1-2-3 (the form insisted on a URL last time, for some reason).
It is a political debate forum Darrel.
It reflects fairly well the deep political divisions in America today.
Outlander is correct to a point. We are defensive of our own. He neglects to mention that even the most outrageous posters right to participate in this forum is vigorously defended.
gster,The purple chicken is looking for you.
Paul:”If you or a member of your family needed alcohol or drug counseling, would you seek out someone who had experienced a similar problem, someone who could relate?Or would you go to a tea-totaler who had no idea, no clue, about the social or personal issues surrounding the problem?”
Paul, I don’t think that politicians are seeking a theraputic alliance with voters, so your question makes no sense what-so-ever.
I beg to differ with part of this characterization:”Steve, you should avoid digging up trash on people if it is not politically relevent, dont you think?”
I agree that these statements do not seem politically relevent. I, however, do not have to dig them up. Brenda, Connie, and Susan flaunt their sorrid pasts with glee. It confuses me as to why they do it, unless it is a shameless act of hucksterism that takes the form of “Oh, look at me, I have come from the depths of hell and sin – but, I am pure now.”
I suspect it is shameful pandering to religious right voters. I don’t think it will keep working for them — as suggested by Connie’s defeat Tuesday.
It gives heft to “their Born Again” saga. Look at their leader GWB, he not only made it fashionable for Republicans, but nearly mandatory!
Yes, steve, it is an important part of their narrative. But, I think we will soon be seeing much less of it. Which is fine by me.
Rage – I got some strange feathers around here!!!Oh my god, I think I’m surrounded by it! GULP!!
“If you or a member of your family needed alcohol or drug counseling, would you seek out someone who had experienced a similar problem, someone who could relate?Or would you go to a tea-totaler who had no idea, no clue, about the social or personal issues surrounding the problem?”
I certainly hope I’m reading you wrong here, Paul. Are you saying that only those who have been involved with alcohol and drugs should be involved in the treatment for the same for others? I suppose having seen that type of life, they might have a better handle on it, but I, for one, would never ask for someone like that.
This is like saying that one must be bad first, to be good. Baloney. Or bologna, to be correct. ;)
“Are you saying that only those who have been involved with alcohol and drugs should be involved in the treatment for the same for others? ”
Having seen a familiy member die a slow death of alcoholism I can understand where this might be true.
For example, would you take advise on sexual matters from a Priest (Keep the kid references to yourself)?
Would you ask election advice from a democrat?
Same things.
Julie:”If I ask real nice MM brings out his tutu and wears it for me (yes I have pictures – halloween).”
Fi dolla. I look. Fi dolla
Would you take budgetary advice from a Republican?
Would you take foreign policy pointers from GW Bush?
Would you take ethics classes from Karl Rove?
Would you be interested in the prophesies of Pat Robertson?
Would you take Bush’s walk across the Abraham Lincoln in a flight suit as “Mission Accomplished”?
I could go on, nearly ad nauseum, but I think you get the drift.
I see we did make the national news again, and this time they weren’t makin fun of us! http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-08-01-kansas-evolution-vote_x.htm?csp=34
What the heck Steven, it’s a slow night…
“Stand Firm in Your Beliefs”- by John Kerry
“You Catch More Flies With Sugar”-by Maxine Waters
“Document Authentication”- by Dan Rather
“Shaking Down the Man”- by Jesse Jackson
“Taxes are Fun!”- by Ted Kennedy
“Assertiveness Training- by Tom Daschel
OK, equal time:
“I’m OK, you suck”- by Ann Coulter
“Grammar, the Key to Success” – by George W. Bush
“Pharmacueticals I Have Known” – by Rush Limbaugh
LRB,
Sorry about your loss.
But I am puzzled. Paul’s first post on “counseling” at 3:01 PM was CLEARLY referring to “past conduct”. Steven’s, steve’s, and RD’s post did likewise.
Your deceased family member who died a “slow death of alcoholism” does not seem to fit that “past conduct” profile. Not to mention another problem.
Is lack of reading comprehension a requirement to being a Republican?
LRB,
Why would I ask a priest for sex counseling? And if, by chance, I was dumb enough to do it, I would expect him to give me a reference for a sex counselor, wouldn’t you?
Would you go to Bush for alcohol and drug counseling? After all, he’s used both. “This is your brain on drugs.”
Hee hee hee
I see bandler answered the call, but totally avoided the topic of the thread.
And I notice the right is still humor and irony impaired.
Wassa matter boys? You were yucking it up not too long ago.
Like I always say, paybacks are a bitch.
November is gonna be so.much.fun
and did I mention
FOUR.MORE.YEARS?
how sad for ks, how funny for you right wing jerks. Four years to contemplate the failings of the ksgop.
What has really happened here? Incumbent Connie Morris, an easy target for things other than her postions lost. No surprise. I probably wouldn’t have voted for her either.
And a Republican moderate beat a Republican conservative in another school board race. Let me know if I missed it but I don’t see that Democrats have beaten Republicans much recently.
What the Eagles’ intense coverage and advocacy in the so-called evolution debate I believe is all about it’s editors’ embarrassment at having to endure kidding from their pointed headed friends in other states. It couldn’t have anything to do with the education of the kids, because that was not going to change.
But the editors are naive. They have been used by those who want to maintain that science has an indisputable naturalistic explanation for creation, which is a blatent falsehood.
And the lead in is correct. ID is not going away.
heheh blame the media
Which right wingut talking point is THAT?
Out?
ID aint going away. You are correct.
It is just gonna stay outta schools, as it should!
My sympthasies, Outie, but the modern track record is clear.
1) Anti-evolution fanatics do stupid things.
2) Controversy ensues.
3) One way or another, they get their asses handed to them. This is not 1925, dude.
Might I suggest you would better turn your attention to social darwinism, a illogical philosophical corruption of Darwin’s ideas, and a prime motivator of current Republican ideology?
Rage: It is a fact that most people today reject Darwinism.
http://www.physorg.com/news7500.html
Yet, the “inform the kids of the alternatives” side seems to be losing elections at times. The problem must be in presentation, organization, or strategy. It apparently does not lie in the opinions of the majority.
Another reason that ID will not go away.
I want to pin you down only so I can better understand you Out.
Would you be in favor of ID being taught in school?
Would you be in favor of prayer in schools?
JR: I am going to assume that you mean public schools.
No. But two provisos. Let the kids know of the legitimately disputed areas of Darwinian theory. And let the kids know that there are alternatives by way of general explanation.
No. Moments of silence set aside for personal prayer or reflection are OK though.
Oh my, another red-state Republican decides to abandon the “God, gays, and guns” party . . .
Republican State Senator Joins Democratic PartyAP – 8/3/2006 1:24 PM – Updated: 8/3/2006 2:23 PMOKLAHOMA CITY (AP) –
Riley, flanked by a half dozen Democratic Senate leaders, announced her change in party allegiance while criticizing Senate Republicans for what she said was their “lack of compassion for people” and for ignoring her and other moderate Republicans.
“The moderate Republican has been pushed aside for the extreme right wing,” Riley said. Riley, a member of the Senate’s GOP leadership team who holds the title of minority whip, said she has received no support among Republicans in the state Senate.
“The treatment I received in the last legislative session was abhorrent,” she said, adding that her focus in the Senate has been “on families, children and the average Oklahoman.”
“I was totally disregarded,” Riley said. “The moderate Republican no longer has a voice.”
http://www.kotv.com/news/?108766
A good story outlandr.
It would be just as good and better if you were not loosely trolling the nic of a poster who would never post that! Just my opinion.
The defeat of Connie Morris was a victory for moderate Republicans. A victory over virulent far-right ideology and out of state money. Connie is not even from Kansas.
Moderate Republicans, sometimes called RINOs, by the far-right posters here, have made Kansas government work for years. We have achieved national recognition for an excellent public education system. A system that far-right people like Connie Morris, Bob Corkins, and Steve Abrams were desperately trying to destroy. Republican primary voters let them know what they thought of their efforts.
I am registered as unaffiliated, I vote for democrats and RINOs. I contributed money to a moderate Republican PAC that was set up to defeat the far-right BOE candidates.
Outlander -Here you beating the drum that evolution is an imperfect theory. Can you name a perfect theory for us? As I have said to you more times than I can count, perfection is not a requirement. Sorry, but I am pretty sure your waving that “let’s teach the shortcomings of the theory” banner is not really what you are hoping for. I would go along with what you suggest if I thought middle school and high school teachers knew enough about the theory to teach its “flaws”.
And Outlander your point that the majority of people don’t accept the theory of evolution is evidence of the Discovery Institute’s success in their disinformation campaign. Another question for you Outlander, would the opinions of a group of barbers and plumbers be equivalent to the opinions of biologists on the theory of evolution. I suspect you would support the idea of equivalence. This strategy has been exploited by the Discovery Institute also.
I am confident that ultimately the truth will defeat disinformation. I don’t think that Connie’s loss had much to do with the ID vs. evoluiton as I concede on another thread. It was her boundless arrogance that defeated her. Far-right ideologues like her just can’t help themselves and ultimately over-reach — I am counting on that continuing…
Outie, bud, you say you don’t support teaching ID, but the Discovery Institute types, to a large degree, also say that, and the “flaws” you’ve cited earlier come straight from their playbook. They also support the “teach-the-controversy” argument.
But try looking up Michael Behe, William Dembski, Jonathan Wells, Stephen Meyer etc. in the evolutionary literature (let alone the non-existent literature on ID!), and you will see how much scientific weight their pretzel-like analyses carry.
As I’ve said before, the controversy is philosophical, not scientific, but some time back the anti-evolution activists decided that was not a legally or politically viable approach.
Rage: Of course you won’t find the mentioned scientists in the mainline “evolution literature”. They don’t with agree it!
The scientific establishment is so tied to Darwinian theory that they have no choice but to forge on, ignoring trouble right and left. This is the “rock” that has been built upon. To admit this rock might have a crack or two in it, well… that would be entirely too difficult.
Steven, I too have hope and confidence that truth will prevail.
outlander………….the TRUTH does prevail…..EVOLUTION is real science, ID is just a glossed over version of creationism. The other truth is that the radical right is OUT, the moderates are IN!!!! Deal with it!
Actually, Out, problems are debated in the literature all the time. Had you not heard of the ongoing battle between the gradualism and puncuated equilibria camps? The definition and mechanisms of speciation remains hot topics (any researchers out there, feel free to correct me). Little is known about the RNA world, let alone the origins of life itself.
You are correct, though, that the “rock” is undisturbed, because it’s been confirmed time and time again. It is the responsibility of those who would dislodge the current framework to produce convincing evidence for their views. They haven’t even come close.
And, funny thing, for SOME reason, they’re ALL evangelical Christians!
Outie,” Moments of silence set aside for personal prayer or reflection”??And I suppose if you actually got one, and it was used for personal prayer or reflection, you RR’s would be touting it as a bona fide miracle that proves your viewpoint of whatever higher power you insist everybody should be required by law to respect?
Let’s transfer the label RINO to those far right extremists: Religious In Name Only!