More evidence that Wichita needs to stop apologizing as a place to live and do business: In its annual Best Places award, Money magazine ranked Wichita No. 9 on its Top 10 list of “America’s best cities” with a population of 300,000 or more.
The magazine cited Wichita’s “solid economy, low crime for its size and plenty to do.” True, Wichita’s job growth rate is an anemic 1.11 percent, but in other areas (most notably commute time), Wichita looks good compared with other large cities (even edging out No. 10 New York City). And “there are more sunny days in Wichita than in Daytona Beach or Honolulu,” the magazine notes.
Earlier this month, the Kosmont-Rose Institute calculated that Wichita was the seventh-least-taxing large city in the nation.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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58 Comments
THIS WOULD BE GREAT EXCEPT ACCORDING TO THE WICHITA EAGLE, KANSAS IS BECOMING THE LAUGHING STOCK OF AMERICA!!
It’s awesome news. I know Wichita is a fantastic place. It’s only going to get better. We just need to have faith and take risk. Move forward with our infrustructure needs and encourage entrepreneurship.
People need to stop being down about Wichita. But I suspect that all cities have their critics and haters, you can’t escape the negative people. They’re everywhere. But there is always positive people and faithfuls and risk takers that make our city great. It is these people that make Wichita. It doesn’t happen by itself.
:) Like my project for the people of Wichita. It’s going to be a very difficult challenge to actually get enough support to build it, but I have faith, I’m working very hard for it, I have patiences and I’m very positive about it and what it can bring here. That is the only way it can happen, you’re going to have to make it happen.
You can’t wish or pray things to be.
“Large City”? Say what? Having lived in Los Angeles, Tampa, Miami and Chicago, I fail to see how anyone could call Wichita a “large city”.
Not denegrating claims to fame, but way less than half a million people does not make for a ‘large city’. And comparing Wichita to New York is like comparing a paper airplane to the space shuttle–there is no comparison.
Wichita is a nice place to live, and has many plusses. But, please, spare us the hyperbole. “large city”? Get real.
Raptor. It just depends on what the critria is. Wichita is fairly large compared to many of the hundres of thousands of towns and cities across the nation. Wichita is ranked in the top 50 cities, population wise.
Actually! Wichita is larger than Tampa and pretty close to the population of Miami. Yeah! It doesn’t have the “metro” area or the heavily populated and numerous subrubs that increase the total area’s population. But city proper wise, it’s quite large.
It comparison to China, they consider mid-size cities are those with populations of 1 to 3 million.
So cities like Chicago and Houston would be considered mid-size. Can you name a city in China that is comparable in size to Chicago? Nope! They have no idenity or fame. But that have several dozens of cities that size. It’s just different in the USA.
What about Tokyo, Seoul, Bombay, Sao Paulo, Mexico City. These cities are double, triple, quadruple the size of New York City. Does that make Chicago “puny” and “paper airplane” to a space shuttle. More people are riding the subway in Bombay in any given minute then the entire population of Chicago.
So we can take it were we can get it. Go Wichita!
The main reason they listed it there is because it is comparatively cheap to live here.
The other interesting thing is the crime compared to the other 9 big cities. Wichita is much, much higher than the rest.
I am sure Wichita is a ‘large city’ to some people…who have never lived or been anywhere else.
Sorry, Joe, your comparison with other countries is off base. The initial comparison was cities in this country, and how someone is trying to compare Wichita with NY.
And, yes, I am well aware of actual population counts..but include the metro area of what is normally called cities in THIS country. Tampa metro equals the population of Kansas. The city limits are not well defined, except on a map. As in LA, you go from Tustin to Santa Ana to Orange, and the only way you can tell is by the signs.
As such, I find it rather quaint and amusing that people try to compare Wichita with New York or other (US) Large Cities. It just isn’t in the same league.
It is a nice place to live, no doubt about that. But, it is not a major, large city.
Born and raised here. I’ve lived in Wichita all my life.
There is just about nothing about this burg to brag about.
Hell, Belle Plaine is a large city to most Kansan’s :-)
Were #9, Were#9
JR -Then why have you lived here all your life? Maybe it’s about time for you to move.
Believe me rachel, just as soon as I am able I will be taking my leave of this place.
I hope I make it out before they shut off the lights!
I have lived in Wichita and visited for over 40 years. Say what you want, but it really is not that great.If you like uptight white people, zero culture ,chain restaurants and lets not forget Walmart, then its great.Wichita has no airport to speak of. No population growth in over 20 years. No leading retail chains like Whole foods, Trader Joes, Costco, etc..They tried at 29th and Rock but all the retailers have scaled down stores.No planned communities to speak of. Look at new construction of houses in Wichita. the style they are building is 10-15 years behind Denver and KC. JR is right on the money.
Wichita is great because of people like Joe Williams. He has a vision for something that he feels will add to the area.
The people are the reason why I have stayed here for 25 years. When you get down to what really matters, it’s people.
Don’t get me wrong, I like living here! Public art, opera, Botannica, concerts, shows, I like it all. It is a great place to live.
Some years ago, I was sitting in my 3rd floor office on 6th street, downtown Los Angeles, and my view of the building right across the street was diminished by smog. 2+ hours to go the 40 miles to work. Trash and grafitti everywhere. Open drug use. Areas where you didn’t walk during the daytime, even if armed. No thanks, I am GLAD that Wichita is not a ‘large city’ and all that comes with that size.
One nice thing: Put a picture of the worst traffic jam in Wichita (Kellogg/Rock?) next to a picture of Golf/Algonquin Roads in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago.
Ben Huie are you familar with the northwest burbs of Chicago?
Ever since I was traveling over the river on Kellogg several years ago and saw the massive crowd of people lining the banks for the RiverFest fireworks, I’ve felt that Wichita is a big city with smalltown feel to it. I haven’t yet decided if that’s good or bad.
There are pros and cons to living in a city the size of Wichita versus a city the size of LA or NYC, just as there are pros and cons with city versus small town/rural. It really depends on what you’re looking for.
.morg – VERY familiar. I used to live further out and drove through there daily.
I could have also used several others: The Dan Ryan; I-285 Atlanta; Pasadena Freeway; Bayshore (101); etc etc etc.
“Believe me rachel, just as soon as I am able I will be taking my leave of this place.
I hope I make it out before they shut off the lights!”
Posted by: J R | July 19, 2006 at 09:55 AM
Give us a call J R and you can get a lot of help in moving and we won’t even ask for a beer.
I grew up in Hoffman Estates. Left there in 73 before the sprawl really went nuts.
Good to meet you.
Ben Huie, of all the places you have been, why the hell did you have to end up in Wichita?
AKA “Hoffman’s Mistake” – It got really messy in the 80s.
RA – it’s a long story.
“Wichita has no airport to speak of.”Posted by: elwood | July 19, 2006 at 09:56 AM
Thank for telling me.
I have not had any trouble flying out of it over 20 times in one year.
Could have fooled me.
I also have had no problems getting in/out of the airport.
RA, we’ve taken a lot of trips to fly out of KCI to save money and get quicker trips to other places. Could have fooled me. BTW, if you want to know what a “big city” airport is, look for the words “International Airport”. Like, “Mid-Continental INTERNATIONAL Airport”.
I’ve flown to Chicago and Dallas to fly to San Francisco. Look at a map. Not exactly “direct”. Or even close to it.
y.I was thinking of opening a steakhouse serving dry-aged USDA Prime beef. Made from Kansas-raised cattle. But you wouldn’t be willing to pay for it. I know, because I’ve talked to people who tried it, and failed–customers balked at the prices. Kansas was the first state in America to import and raise Aberdeen black angus cattle. Kansas ranchers still do to this to this day. But it’s “too good” (too expensive) for Wichitans. Dillon’s used to sell certified black angus beef, but Kroger’s Cincinatti execs decided to cancel it.
Many of you don’t like veggies. That’s because what is sold here his crap. You don’t like seafood, because it tastes “fishy”. That’s because old seafood turns “fishy” after 3 days. Fresh seafood isn’t fishy-tasting, but it costs more than you are willing to pay.
BTW, if some of you want to know what a good pizza tastes like, try zpizza on Rock Road, across from Dillon’s. It’s a chain, based in California, but the recipes used are really good. Right now, it is struggling. Put up a few extra dollars for quality, and keep this restaurant going. Or don’t and tell them, “Pizza Hut is good enough for us. We aren’t interested in yummy tasty gourmet pizza.”
Heartlander, United still goes to San Francisco via Denver.
When I first moved here in 89 after growing up in Manhattan, I thought it was a death sentence. Wichita was a bigger culture shock than Herington.What I think keeps this city back is the attitude that only certain elites are allowed to have a voice here, where in Manhattan, everyone is welcome to contribute and new people are not only welcome, they are expected.We’re starting to get some leaders like Carlos Mayans and Tim Norton who get it, but until we get rid of the Gang of Four on the 13th Floor–and everyone who thinks like them–this city is going nowhere fast.
Interesting article quote at the top of this topic, how Wichita has more sunny days than Daytona Beach or Orlando. Little misleading, since the sun can shine here when it is 20 degrees. I can’t remember the last time the temperature was 20 degrees in Daytona or Honolulu…
Raptor,
That’s not the point. I didn’t see any mention of temps.
Sunlight is important to humans. Or aren’t you aware of SAD?
MrC – I would add that even after being here 20 years a person is still considered an outsider.
RD – you are absolutely correct about sunlight. There are a lot of problems with depression in the far north where days get very short – also in very cloudy areas. With our mild winter temperatures getting out in the winter is quite pleasant.
I read somewhere recently that due to relatively inexpensive housing and the quality of medical care, Wichita is considered a good place to retire.
I find it to be misleading…comparing sunny days with Daytona Beach and Honolulu without taking into account the temperature. Isn’t the temperature a main reason people go to those places in February, instead of say, June?
btw, I didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday and am aware of SAD.
Raptor,Try living in Michigan, Ohio or similar states where the long winters are cloudy and gloomy. I love it here when it’s 20 degrees and sunny. It makes the winters much more tolerable.
It’d be great without all the religious wack-os and the kkkonservatives.
Even in January we have days in the 50s and 60s – great for taking the munchkins to the playground.
NJC – when I lived up that way I just took up x-country skiing.
I was born in Wichita, Fairmount grade school, Mathewson, West High, worked at Boeing,left in 60, here in Pacific NW since. Nice here & glad I left. Returned to Wichita in 97 for visit remembered then why I left.My God people..its still the crotch of the USA. It is the laughing stockof America.
Ron is an observer. Wichita is crappy because people who have get up and go, get up and leave. There is nothing to brag about here. If you disagree, then consider the city’s future. What do you envision, as a realistic scenario? A continuation of household incomes’ falling farther and farther below national median? Resurrecting aviation by offering labor at Chinese wage levels? Where are you going to bring outside-world dollars in? This is what you have to figure out.
I’ll admit! There are places better than Wichita, but Wichita isn’t near as bad as all the people that have nothing but bad things to say.
Homogeneous? Yeah! So is Dallas, OKC, KC, Tulsa, Omaha, Houstin, Indianapolis, Cincinnati and other cities that I have been too.
Wichita has its challenges, but it can be and will be a lot better in the future. We are a bit slow and playing catchup for the most part, but we are growing strong and lots of things are happening. Just got to support it and have a positive attitude.
There are so many people who don’t want growth. They don’t want a downtown arena, new airport terminal, new expressways, or anything. They just want everything to deteriate and to be stagnated. We kind of have a large population of union workers and their negative attitudes, so it makes us not as progressive as we can be and should be. (I know this might upset some people, but it’s the truth).
There are others, Joe, who DO want growth but do not believe that your socialistic path is the right way to do it.
Always the obligatory shot from you at union workers Joe!
I mean DAMN! I think a thread could be about life in outer space or the secrets of knitting and you’d find a way to get in a smack at union workers!
Has it ever occurred to you that those union workers get their hard won wages from wealthy people who buy aircraft? That they then spend that money in this community? That each union worker accounts for almost 2 workers “downstream” in the community?
Joe I make ya a prediction. The unions ARE gonna go. They’re already being squeezed out of existence. It is just a matter of time.
But Joe? WHEN that happens you can take a shovel to this town. It’s already in the hole. Perhaps you’ll get to toss the first spadeful of dirt?
How is it socialized? It’s infrastructure Ben!
Gander Mountain? Built with taxpayer funds – “state ownership of the means of production”
WaterWalk – same thing.
One of the new bragging points of southern Kansas is that Wichita is located only about 90 miles east of the developing “meteorite capital of Kansas,” in the city of Haviland. Haviland might create a major tourism attraction to tell the world its meteorite landing story. So far, the meteorite that exploded out near Haviland thousands of years ago shows no sign of having been a flying saucer!
In the future, Haviland might rival its neighbor, Greensburg, with it’s “world’s deepest hand-dug well” only a few miles further west on Highway 54.
And all without a new 1/4 billion dollar arena nor unfunded Exploration Place.
I’m still trying to get accurate figures, but as we all can see, Wichita has had a large influx of undocumented foreign workers and their families in that last five years. It appears that without that inflow of people, Wichita’s population would have dropped from 353,600 on July 1, 2005, to 318,240 … instead of a gain of less than 1% in five years … by far the biggest drop in population of any city in Kansas.
How do you figure that population drop? Where in the hell did you get that? 40,000 people gone? You are pulling that crap straight out you know where.
Actually Wichita’s population gain is around 1.8%. Below national average but still growing. And NO they do not take an account of undocumented workers, because they are undocumented. Nobody knows who they are or where they are. They can only guess, but they are not accounted for the total population.
Wichita grew more than 15,000 in actual legal people in the last 5 years. Not taking account of the subburbs that have grown rapidly, like Goddard, which was the fasted growing city in Kansas. But of course without the influx of undocumented workers, Goddard would have lost half of it’s population. This includes all of KCS and Johnson County. Buy using your bs.
Ben! I’m with you there. There are projects that are totally unwarrented for public funds, and Gandar Mountain or getting a destination Restaurants are just some of them I don’t agree with.
But expanding Kellogg, NW Expressway, Airport Terminal, and yes, Downtown Arena. I agree with. I count them as infrastructure.
I will even say that Cowtown and Exploration Place shouldn’t be owned by the government. I don’t even think we should bail them out.
We are a bit too socialized in some of the things here, so I agree and wish it wasn’t that way. But why be against everything? Even legitimate ones like expanding Kellogg. I know it’s taking forever and the work is a bit shabby, but there are people who feel its a complete waste of money and shouldn’t be done.
Face it — Wichita will NEVER be a “destination city”. The people here are friendly and generally down-to-earth, and the cost of living is a plus, but you can’t build a future on that. Wichitans WANT to feel good about their “hometown”, which then breeds complacency rather than progress.
I’ve heard so many people say that “Wichita is a great place to raise a family.” Really? The school systems are inadequate, the recreational opportunities are slim, and I’m uncomfortable with my kids riding their bikes to school.
Wichitans need to abandon the notion that “progress” is measured by the number of new chain restaurants, and focus on attracting industry and improving education.
CAlly, speaking of recreational opportunities, I was just down in Arkansas. In Harrison, on Monday, the city pool was open til 9 PM. Nice thing to do for children, and their parents, especially during a heat wave. What are the hours for Wichita public pools?
They also have a skateboard park. What about Wichita?
Does anybody have info?
Anybody hear the recent story of Wichita’s aviation businesses being courted to relocate to Sonora, Mexico and Arizona?
http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/3385666.html
If that happens, this city may just dry up. How many thousands and thousands of jobs and population would be lost? Wichita needs to be more proactive and diversify our industry. Maybe court biomed or automotive and wind turbine manufacturing (since we already have great manufacturing talent here).
I hate to admit it since I’m a born and bred Kansan, but I’m one of those biding my time until I can leave. I feel that the religious wackos (the Terrys, Freds and Joes) have been given the reins to Kansas and have taken us even more backwards than we already were.
Joe, relax, you’re liable to have a stoke. No need to get angry. I met you at the blogger’s meetup and you seemed like a decent person at that time.
As I have said before, “I refuse to hold your youth and inexperience against you,” to quote Ronald Reagan. I know you’re young and have no real feel for expenses for these pie in the sky projects. What you want, might not be wanted by the tax paying public. That’s why its good for wealthy people to pay for their dreams — in case the dream falls flat, it’s not at taxpayers’ expense.
In other words, Joe, we don’t need your brains — we need your money!In regard to the census figures, its difficult to get up to date accurate figures because, of course, real census are only taken every 10 years. As I understand it, the U.S. census bureau updates its figures annually by making estimates based on various bits of information such as income tax returns, water and electric and telephone installations, school enrollment numbers, etc. — most of which doesn’t reflect actual citizenship.
As of early 2005, the hispanic percentage was over 10% but not broken down according to citizenship. Obviously this has grown considerably in the last two years because buses arrive daily from El Paso.
As I related in a previous blog, I visited with a friendly hispanic fellow who just arrived in Pratt on a bus from El Paso. He said the bus left the Mexico side of El Paso about 12 hours earlier on a Saturday afternoon. The bus was full and headed to Wichita and Kansas City. It seems like the ticket price was $100 but can’t remember for sure. These buses roll up Highway #54 continuously.
Anyway I will stand with my figures until the Census Bureau comes up with more accurate figures.
So it appears that for every guest visitor to Wichita from south of the border, a Wichita resident moves on. This is what needs to be stopped by a more sensible economic improvement plan for Wichita. We need the south of the border guests here as much as they want to visit and perhaps eventually live here.
Pie in the sky projects…its bull conversation when talking about Wichita and what we lack in event facilities.
Jwink, the County doesn’t have to ask taxpayers for rate increases. Thank your city gov for bothering the Coliseum boondoggle that was about to happen. People who cared voted to replace that old barn and thank the stars accordingly.
Some may argue the downtown arena isn’t big enough or won’t be busy enough, maybe not designed well enough, waste of tax money.
But your sales tax is mine too and ranting about what’s not going to change on this topic is senseless.
We are getting a new arena by necessity and lets hope the increased money into the project gives Wichita something to be proud about. Let the thing be designed and built before denying local or even out of town investors might put money into the arena.
Depends on event possibilities. The county wasn’t going to spend this amount on its own so their idea to replace the Coliseum in that bad location was certain to fail long term.
Wichita will still lack an event facility that’s regionally attractive for events just because of the small size of our arena. Many events won’t happen in Kansas becuase of that. We don’t have WSU football for that reason alone. Cessna stadium isn’t useful for football to return.
Tax money is necessary in stadiums and arena’s everywhere. Tax money for museums, improving the airport.
The ice rink should be a private facililty. It doesn’t help bring out of towners here that much.
Quality of life, every worker needs relaxation time somewhere. I care about Wichita’s educational abilities to train workers in every kind of corporation but we need the stadium, arena’s to gather and cheer for something. Other cities around us are doing it, joyfully.
Wichita lacks important projects or has half of things not finished. The Epic Center, without its twin. The Boathouse, no slip, dock or boats to rent. Projects not completely what they were designed to do but called “destinations”.
Bashing young people is insane. Its the older set stuck mudslinging about tax increases. Young people aren’t electing politicians we have in office. Who is wasting legislators time talking about guns, gay marriage. Legislators stuck not raising taxes like its badge of honor. If taxes raised, I want something out of it. Better the schools and educational oppurtunities. Better our standard of living outside of the offices and warehouses, with things to do.
As Wichita exists today, its appalling to continue with half done things or using failed old facilities like the Coliseum, Lawrence Dumont, Cessna Stadium for college football and the airport.
Things need to be redeveloped in Wichita, the core of this city abilities to hold events and do business.
A fire station, that’s seperate from everything. Nobody is saying there isn’t money for fire stations. If they are, it maybe due to loss of tax dollars by people who have moved out of the city and county. Lets give Wichitans a reason to stay with events and great facilities ,a better airport for out of state travelers.
Heartlander! Go underneath Kellogg on Emporia street. You will find a very nicely done public skateboard park with TONS of kids there having fun. There is even a nice skateboard park next to it to accomidate.
Mrage! Many thanks! You’re a breath of fresh air.
What makes cities is attitude. All these people slamming it and saying all these bad things, fine! Wichita deserves some critisim and the “born again” cult that dominates our political system in the State doesn’t help, but Wichita is progessing regardless of what you think. Just look at where Wichita was 10 years ago, even 20 (if old enough), there has been so many additions and great things to do that you can see Wichita getting better and it is.
In the 80’s you just had a couple of movie theaters at the mall. I remember with Northrock 6 was such the biggest thing.
Remember when all people did was drag Douglass? Everything downtown was empty, especially the warehouse district. But somebody had the idea to transform it and look at it today. People live down there, it’s a great hot spot for young adults, many businesses, including Airbus is down there.
You guys don’t see it. All you see is your own blind negative hate filled brain looking at the glass half empty. I see it as half full.
Skateboard shop next to it. My fault!
Thanks Joe for the skateboard info.
What about public swimming pool hours?
The city pools vary in closing times, from 5:30 to 7:30. Agreed they should be open a little later than that, like 9 pm or so. There are some parks that have interactive water fountains that kids enjoy splashing around in – they typically are running till 8 or 9 pm I believe.
Joe,I agree with everything you typed except for Cowtown not being bailed out. I have volunteered there for 3 years now. I have seen what Cowtown could be if it got a reasonable amount of money from the city and/or county. The zoo gets $3 million. Without that money the zoo would not be one of the best in the nation. It would not bankrupt the city and/or county to put that much money into Cowtown. With more money Cowtown could hire qualified museum people to run it.
I think that Wichita needs to stop complaining and start supporting the things it has.