The U.S. Education Department quietly released a study last week that found that, with the exception of eighth-grade reading, children in public schools performed as well or better in reading and math than comparable fourth- and eighth-graders in private schools, The New York Times reported. Reg Weaver, president of the National Education Association, thinks the department wouldn’t have been so hush-hush if the findings had backed the Bush administration’s support for private school vouchers. "There would have been press conferences and glowing statements about private schools," he said.
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ONLY ONE FROM A PUBLIC SCHOOL!
Local students win Merit ScholarshipsFour local high school graduates are among more than 2,100 nationwide who have been awarded Merit Scholarships financed by colleges and universities.
This is the second round of college scholarship awards. The first was in May. Awards typically range from $500 to $2,000 annually.
Students qualify for the awards based on their scores on the 2004 Preliminary SAT/National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test, which they took as juniors.
The students, their high schools and scholarship awards are:
• Nathan Ruhl of Leon, home schooled, University of Oklahoma Merit Scholarship.
• Fazal Abbas of Wichita, Independent School, University of Texas at Austin Merit Scholarship.
• Kaitlin Henderson of Wichita, East High, W. Harold Otto Merit Scholarship, University of Kansas.
• Abigail Searle of Wichita, Kapaun Mount Carmel, University of Tulsa Merit Scholarship.
Unfortuantely, politics has taken over, and the debate is more about money and control and less about helping kids. Will the $303,253 in the KNEA PAC really help kids?http://www.kansas.gov/ethics/CFAScanned/ElecCycle2006/PAC121_200601.pdf
Or, what would “country club” Republicans, like Steve Cloud, do without the education issue?
Related: Greater Kansas City Missouri Chamber continues meddling in Kansas Politics in 2006?GOP National Committeeman for Kansas, Steve Cloud, gets $25,000 election year stipend for his KTRM group? Is this Missouri group only interested in politicians willing to send Kansas tax dollars to Missouri?http://www.kansasmeadowlark.com/2006/07-17/index.htm
The first post here is exactly what this thread is about.
” ONLY ONE FROM A PUBLIC SCHOOL!”
Instead of celebrating all of the good things happening in our public schools we get this.NEA President Weaver is right on target.
Kansas Meadowlark: What is the “KTRM” group? And why the heat towards Steve Cloud. I knew Steve and his brothers and their successful business in Merriam, Kansas … although it has been several years since I have visited their business.
They were good productive Kansas businessmen making good jobs for Kansans. I’m not up to date on the Cloud’s current and various volunteer activities, political or otherwise, but I would endorse Steve Cloud’s good intentions anytime.
How is releasing a study to the public considered “hush-hush”?
If you know about it and posted the story then it isn’t so “hush-hush”.
8th Grade reading is still down through. That’s not a good sign.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/edison/inside/
Remember Edison? This is about Edison and Wichita
YES, YES, WE SHOULD BE DAMN HAPPY THAT THERE WAS ONE NOT LIKE IN THE PAST WHEN THERE WAS SEVERAL.———————————-The first post here is exactly what this thread is about.
” ONLY ONE FROM A PUBLIC SCHOOL!”
Instead of celebrating all of the good things happening in our public schools we get this.NEA President Weaver is right on target.
Posted by: Apophis | July 18, 2006 at 06:22 AM
From the link above
After several years, Wichita soured on Edison’s performance at Ingalls and Isely as compared to the earlier schools. “We saw declining enrollments,” recalls Wichita school superintendent Winston Brooks, who was hired after Edison already had been hired by the district. “At one time, Ingalls had at least had nearly 700 students … and it was losing about 100 students a year. Test performance was awful.” There were additional complaints about discipline problems and high teacher turnover in the schools, and administrators at Ingalls were removed after their involvement in a cheating scandal.
According to the district, Edison did not respond well to the problems at the two schools. Schodorf believes it was because Edison was spending too much time trying to recruit new business. “We had this problem, and then we would read or hear about the company then trying to recruit other districts, and that’s when we began thinking that, you know, there was a money problem, and that the company was really interested in getting new districts, getting the next million, and not taking care of their own,” she says.
You know what’s funny, RightAngle and Joe Williams are probably products of the public schools.
It was good enough for them, but not good enough for anybody else.
I appears both Wichita and Edison failed in this city. Edison has succeded in many other cities. I would imagine it was both a matter of personel on Edisons side and a lack of belief it the results on Wichita’s side.
For what it is worth.
National Merit Scholar semifinalist here. Class of 1984 Wichita South High PUBLIC school.
Hey, Tangle, there’s a lot more to the National Merit scholar program than just the “happy few” who get scholarships.
Check this from a Wichita Realtor website:
“Last year the Wichita public school district was the only one in the nation to have two students achieve perfect scores on the ACT test. Another student had the maximum score on the SAT test. For two years in a row, the Wichita school district has produced nineteen national merit scholars. For this school year, The National Merit Scholarship Corp. announced in September that 22 Wichita school district students qualified as semifinalists. Impressive? You bet! This education has to rate an “A+” in anyone’s grade book.”
http://www.homes101.net/kansas-realtors/wichita-c1125/
My son was a National Merit Semifinalist along with a dozen or more students at East high. He eventually graduated from an Ivy.
Oh the shame of our local public schools, if only we’d have listened to Cindy Duckett!!
J.M.
Would you listen to yourself?
How would you respond if people said our public schools are failing because people like you “don’t BELIEVE in them enough”?
Edison failed because it sucked.
The profit motive doesn’t always work. Sorry to burst your BELIEF that it always does . . .
DO NOT SAY THAT NAME!!!!!
She’ll appear! She has before!
I’d like to have another go at ol’ Cindy.
She left bloodied but unbowed last time . . .
Ya’ll need to invite Cindy, Connie, Bob and a couple of other faves to your next meet up.
HERE IS ANOTHER REASON TO CELEBRATE OUR GREAT SCHOOLS!
Three schools’ scores could lead to midterm transfersBY ICESS FERNANDEZThe Wichita EagleWHAT PARENTS CAN DOWHAT ‘NEEDING IMPROVEMENT’ MEANSParents at three Wichita middle schools won’t know until a month after classes start whether they can transfer their children because the schools perform poorly on state tests.
That’s because state officials won’t release until mid-September the list of schools that have failed to make adequate progress in improving test scores over the previous year.
Okay, I’m thinking now that maybe Right Angle didn’t graduate from ANY school.
Tighty Righty, the parents could base their decisions on the test results from two years ago . . . or an average of the last five test cycles.
The most recent scores aren’t necessarily the most meaningful or accurate.
You sure have to work to build a case against public education, don’t you?
Meanwhile, keep ignoring all the contrary evidence, as usual.
I would like to know how these school were chosen.
“The report, which compared fourth- and eighth-grade reading and math scores in 2003 from nearly 7,000 public schools and more than 530 private schools”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/15/education/15report.html?_r=1&ex=1153195200&en=45d3fe9c00085d3c&ei=5087&oref=slogin
Why has no one brought up the fact that so many parents just don’t care to get involved with their children’s education on a day to day basis? So many parents are so quick to blame the teachers and the education system when their kids don’t do well when they (the parents) won’t even sit down with their child to practice spelling words, do flash cards, or read about history just so they will do better in the classroom. I was a public school graduate (3.98 GPA, btw) and athlete with parents who actually guided me to make the right decisions about school and life. They proofread my work, stayed up late studying and encouraged me to do my best. It would have been easy for me to make the wrong decisions and fall into the wrong crowd but my PARENTS were the ones who actually made me care about myself and my future. I am now a parent of a school aged child who is in the public school system because we can’t afford the thousands of dollars per year it costs to attend private schools. I don’t have a problem with that because my husband and I are committed to being involved in our childrens’ lives and education. I guarantee that a child could hear the same lesson in a public school (for free) as in a private school (for umpteen thousand dollars) and if there is guidance from the parents of the public school child the night before the test, he or she would score higher than the private school child whose parents are too busy at their yoga or pilates class to care about how well their child does.
When will people stop blaming others for their own mistakes and shortcomings?
Is this multiple choice or essay?
Remember the private schools don’t have to take behavior problem children.English as a second language.They are not financed with local property tax money.If you looked at the locations of most private schools they are not in slum neighborhoods.
Turned out just fine,
I agree with you almost 100%. The problem I see in the public school is the discipline problem. Depending on the teacher and the Principal he/she has over him or her.
A lot of the teacher’s time can be wasted in trying to keep order in the classroom. Maybe there should be a classroom for the students that want to learn and one for the students that just want to come and make trouble.
Turned out just fine,
I agree with you almost 100%. The problem I see in the public school is the discipline problem. Depending on the teacher and the Principal he/she has over him or her.
A lot of the teacher’s time can be wasted in trying to keep order in the classroom. Maybe there should be a classroom for the students that want to learn and one for the students that just want to come and make trouble.
If you looked at the locations of most private schools they are not in slum neighborhoods.———————————And here in Wichita, they’re all on the East side…coincidence? I think not! :)
The classroom for the kids that just want to make trouble ends up being prison. They learn a lot there.
Thanks RA. You’re correct about the discipline issue. Considering parents aren’t allowed to spank their child in public anymore without someone calling child protective services, we can’t really expect the teachers to have any more power over that aspect either, can we?
Again, I have to say this falls back on the parents. If they would teach their kids about respecting their authority figures, teachers wouldn’t have problems with as many “trouble” kids.
WHY SHOULD THE STUDENTS THAT WANT TO LEARN BE HANDICAPPED BY THESE FACTORS?
“Remember the private schools don’t have to take behavior problem children.”"English as a second language.”"They are not financed with local property tax money.”If you looked at the locations of most private schools they are not in slum neighborhoods.
Posted by: .morg | July 18, 2006 at 01:37 PM
The following, called “No Excuses”, is an interesting read:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0891950907/102-8688455-4728962?v=glance&n=283155
It is available from Amazon as an ebook, I bought my copy at the USD 259 service center on Main Street for a couple bucks. Essentially it points out that it takes a LOT of effort and dedication on the part of everyone – teachers, administrators, support staff, parents and STUDENTS (who hold the ultimate responsibility for their own success) – and that effort can result in remarkable achievement in even the highest of poverty schools.
Unfortunately, we live in a society where everyone wants to live the champagne life without any challenge and struggle to get there. It used to be you could get ahead on the sweat of your back, now we need to help our kids learn how to get ahead by the sweat of your brain!
Back in my day when we walked two miles to school uphill both ways in two feet of snow, if I were to get a spanking at school, I was promised that I would get another one at home. Now if a kid gets a spanking at school, the school gets prosecuted.
Amen Jeff & RA! Thanks for the link Jeff. Sounds like a book worth reading!
Jeff, I looked at your book, I think I like it.
Right Angle,I agree with you on allot of points.If we all got together and pushed a little bit we may be surprised at the results.Who wants to set the agenda?
Public education is a form of child abuse and our five will always be home schooled. I frankly don’t believe this latest government pronouncement regarding the performance of their indoctrination centers.
V.L.R.B!!!
Keeping your kids at home is a wise idea, Ian.
So many others don’t have your “tolerance” for your position on race.
Your kids may find that the inferior races are superior at kicking their ass . . .
There have been a number of occasions when USD 259 has tried to create a school just for the “ones who don’t want to learn”.Every time, it has failed in a chorus of “NIMBY” from the area where the school was to be located.Now what?
One thing that comes to mind, is that republicans always complain about government services such as welfare etc. But when it comes to private school vouchers they fully support the idea.
Private school vouchers are nothing but a handout. Why the hypocrisy?
Prospero,Evidentually you can’t read too well. Edison has succeeded in many cities. It failed in Wichita most likely for the reasons I stated.
I am neither for nor against Edison. What I am for is better education for the children, and future leaders. If that is public school, so be it. If it either school for profit, or vouchers (there is a difference), so be it.
I really don’t give a damn how it’s done, but education needs some serious overhauling, and our children deserve the best. Put that in your condescending pipe and smoke it.
“Private school vouchers are nothing but a handout. Why the hypocrisy?”
Posted by: GaryC. | July 18, 2006 at 06:52 PM
I believe that if were true then public education would be nothing but a handout.
However, I see thing a little bit different. If it cost $7,500 dollars a year to educate a student, then the public school system is saving $7,500 by not having that student.
So why not give that parent a tax credit of $7,500 if he will home school his child or send him to private school. It’s not the government’s money. It is the parent’s money that he has paid in taxes.
RAIf it worked that way, it might make no difference one way or the other. The problem is that’s $7,500 lost to the school for each student NOT there. It’s the public schools that lose when the voucher program is implemented.
Of course if the public school sucks, then a voucher program, in my opinion, is better than a crappy education.
JMW, someone been lying to me.
Back in college, I learned that equals subtracted from equals leaves equals.If it cost $7,500 dollars a year to educate a student, then the public school system is saving $7,500 by not having that student there. True or are they lying to me?
Where is the school out? If all the students went to private schools then there would be no need for public school and the expense would be zero
The public schools want that student for the money, not because they think they can give him a better education but to build up their empire!!!
Right Angle- It’s obvious that neither logic nor mathematics was your forte in college. Keep on trying!
Yes, gster, it’s that “new math” and “fuzzy logic” that gets me every time. Thank for the encouragement
It’s obvious that there are very few posting on this blog who have a clue about public schools. Yammer all you want, your opinions really don’t count much.
Oh, Ian Santiago…………when you totally f*** up your kids by home schooling them, don’t bring them to a public school to straighten out your mess.
You go, Apophis! Tell it to us all! It is only your opinion that counts.
RAIf it worked that way, it might make no difference one way or the other. The problem is that’s $7,500 lost to the school for each student NOT there. It’s the public schools that lose when the voucher program is implemented.
So what do you want RA ? Separate but equal. A school system on every corner. Massive duplication of services… First it was discipline now it”s the all my money rant. Just hate those evil socialist union members? Give us some answers?
“The public schools want that student for the money, not because they think they can give him a better education but to build up their empire!!”
RA
Build up their empire? WHAT?
“The problem is that’s $7,500 lost to the school for each student NOT there.”Posted by: .morg | July 18, 2006 at 11:06 PM
Yes, but if they don’t have the expense for the student, why should they have the money for the student?
The parents tax money should follow the student wherever their student goes.
Do you think that it is fair for their parents to pay tax money to educate you child when they have to pay out of their own pocket for their own child’s education?
Build up their empire? WHAT?
Posted by: Garyc. | July 18, 2006 at 11:21 PM
In other words, the want the student only for the money.
An assumption that this thread is based on is that the Dept. of Education released objective information. What you have here is no different than McDonald’s releasing a ’study’ claiming their food is better. Would you believe it?
You will never get an objective study from that source. There is to much at stake politically for any other result to be published by the government.
A free-market competitive solution is the only way to balance educational costs and quality while giving individuals control over their children’s education.
RA,Actually morg’s statement was picked from me. I wrote that, and morg should use quotes when picking other peoples posts. Makes me wonder if morg knows what he/she is talking about.
Each school is alloted X dollars for each student. When that student is placed in a voucher program, the school looses that money. So while the total number of students adds up to the money needed to run a school, it is still about education.
I suggest, RA, you redo your thinking and start thinking about the education of the children instead of yammering on about something each school can do little about.
Well Steve, here is how it its…..If you are not part of the public education system, you are NOT part of the process. You are just part of the ignorant public who believes every factoid cherry-picked from the real story. Have you noticed that the majority of the education news that is published is negative? For every “bad” story published, there is at least 100 “good” stories that don’t see the light of day.
Here is something interesting to ponder:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0715-01.htm
This, BTW, was sent to me by someone who works in a private school…
I wondered how long it would take Original Steve to pick a new victim now that he doesn’t have Galahad-ProudLib to pick on anymore.
Don’t let Original Steve get to you, Apophis. He gets his jollies disrupting the discussion and irritating people. He’s the worst kind of troll.
But then I’d probably be hateful too if women rejected me the way they have him. A man with no penis doesn’t deserve the ridicule he’s had to bear.
“For every “bad” story published, there is at least 100 “good” stories that don’t see the light of day.”
Apophis: That’s what they are saying about the media coverage on Iraq.
I can’t see where vouchers are going to make anything any different. Vouchers would only pay a part of the cost of private education. The parent(s) would still have to come up with the rest.
As for those who complain about paying taxes for a type of education their children don’t receive because they CHOOSE not to use public schools, what about people who have no children? What about people who don’t pay property taxes? Of course it isn’t equal. Nothing is. But it’s as close as we can get to a way to educate the masses.
Yeah, Outlander, just think, millions of people WEREN’T killed in Iraq by sectarian violence and US troops today.
Pay no attention to the hundred or so that were . . .
Prospero,
RE: Realtor’s glowing praise of Wichita schools’ students’ performance
“For two years in a row, the Wichita school district has produced nineteen national merit scholars. For this school year, The National Merit Scholarship Corp. announced in September that 22 Wichita school district students qualified as semifinalists. Impressive? You bet! This education has to rate an “A+” in anyone’s grade book.
http://www.homes101.net/kansas-realtors/wichita-c1125/“
REALITY CHECK:
This isn’t what USD 259 has reported. It states that there were only SIX USD 259 NMS Semifinalists announced last fall:
http://www.usd259.com/news#Six_students_named_National_Merit_semi-finalists
“The 2006 National Merit Semi-finalists are Tyler Danaver, Kaitlin Henderson, Whitney Lohrenz, William Wheeler and Elisabeth Wright, East High School and Dane Saksa, Southeast High School. ” [these are Class of 06 May-graduated students]
Of the six semifinalists announced in fall of 2005 only ONE, Kaitlin Henderson, received an NMS program scholarship, Kaitlin Henderson. Earth calling Realtors: 1 is about 95% short of 19. As for the Realtors’ claim that “22″ Wichita School District students were semifinalists, 6 is 73% short of 22.
Personally, I recall consistently seeing many more than six NMS semifinalists reported in the Eagle in past years, but there have never been 22 USD 259 semifinalists in any given year in the past five years, based on WE reports. For example 16 USD 259 students were named semifinalists in fall 2004.
As for two perfect ACT scores scored by USD 259 students, that is unsubstantiated as well by the Realtors, but more importantly, it may well be true. But here’s the thing: I was in Chicago last spring and read in the Tribune that 33 Chicago-area students scored 36’s. Assuming roughly ten times as many students in the Chicago area as in Wichita, 2 Wichita students’ scoring 36’s doesn’t indicate anything beyond statistical normality. Chicago has a far higher percentage of African-American and Latino kids than Wichita, as well as other low-income students.
For a truly impressive performance, consider that Lincoln HS in little Sioux Falls, South Dakota, had 14 NMS Semifinalists in 2004-05.See:www.nationalmerit.org/05_annual%20report.pdf
According to The School Report at homefair.com, the Sioux Falls School District’s three high schools had 17 total NMS Semifinalists, out of a total district enrollment of 22,000, i.e. less than half of USD 259’s enrollment. To achieve parity, USD 259 would have to have about 38 semifinalists.
I’ll leave it to readers to decide whether they want to believe district and Eagle-reported facts or Realtor-reported feel-good puffery.