The civil lawsuit filed Thursday by Valerie and Joseph Wilson (in photo) against Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby and Karl Rove faces some tough legal hurdles. The lawsuit charges that the Bush administration officials conspired to destroy Ms. Wilson’s career and punish Mr. Wilson by leaking to the press her identity as an undercover CIA agent. But a 1982 Supreme Court case established that federal officials are immune from lawsuits unless a reasonable person would believe they had violated “clearly established law,” The New York Times reported. Though many people believe that what happened was wrong, it’s still unclear whether it violated the law (Libby was indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice, not for willfully disclosing the identity of a CIA agent).
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- ANTI on Open thread 11/23
- Blaidd_Drwg69 on Too many exemptions
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/23
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/23
- ANTI on Open thread 11/23
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/23
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/23
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/23
- ANTI on Open thread 11/23
- ANTI on Open thread 11/23
133 Comments
It also faces some credibility hurdles!
Hank
Hank,Would you say that Ms. Plame-Wilson was working as a public servant when she was a CIA agent? If not, why not?
The viciousness with which attack Plame and Kerry (your fellow naval vet) has always been puzzling to me.
In making the announcement of her suit, Plame indicated that she would prefer to still be working at the CIA rather than being involved in a law suit.
How can you be so certain that she wasn’t outed for political pay back?
Fitzgerald has run a very tight ship. Even Bush complimented him on the lack of leaks.
Do you have information the rest of us don’t, Hank? Are you not willing to let the investigation run its course.
I agree, this lawsuit would seem to be a stretch. I wonder if any statute of limitations issues are at play here.
Novak’s story was first published on 7/14/03, I believe. Filing the suit on 7/13/06 would give the Wilsons an important option. Namely, one can always drop a lawsuit. However, if a 3-yr statute of limitations exists, and you wait too long, then you lose the option.
This will be fun to watch … the BushBots maliciously outed her in an attempt to discradit her husband and the truths he revealed. The legal proceedings will help highlight the REAL WMDs – Words of Mass Disinformation.
Nice quip Ben.Never heard that version of WMD’s before.
Funny about that Supreme Court case the Times cited, isn’t the President a federal official?
And didn’t the Supreme Court rule just less than ten years ago that Clinton as President could be sued in civil court for sexual harassment?
I thought at the time, what goes around, comes around.
BTW, check out Valerie Plame.
Have you ever noticed how much hotter Democratic women are than Republican?
I think it’s because they’re smarter. Smarter is sexier.
KSFrmgrrl, back me up on this, won’t you?
Bush’s definition of WMD- “Whoops, My Delusion”!
Case in point–the Gore daughters (oh my G*d!) and the Bush daughters (yeh, whatever).
The Plame civil lawsuit is the same strategy as was used by the surviving family of O.J. Simpson’s murdered wife: if you can’t get criminal justice them perhaps you can get civil justice.
You might want to re-think that pinko limp wrist.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/badboy33_usa/theirsours.jpg
lol! ;)
Who would have dreamed officials are immune from lawsuits unless a reasonable person would believe they had violated “clearly established law,” by committing treason against the United States by revealing the classified secret identy of one of America’s covert agents!
Sgt Rambo
That is not known Sgt. Rambo. That is speculation only. It’s an on going investigation for over 2 years. We will have to wait until that is over. Most likely not until after the 06 election.
Hopefully the lawsuit will be in Discovery by fall.
I’m going to speculate that the Plame Game isn’t going to amount to anything.
If nothing else, the lawsuit keeps in front of the public the fact that officials in this administration at the higest levels outed Valerie Plame purely for political revenge. Her husband tried to slow the rush to war and that was NOT to be allowed to go unpunished.
The way I see it, with the law suit they can probably put that slippery piece of slime under oath and see what Bush has to say then! That’s not unprecedented you know, for a president to be deposed in a civil lawsuit.
Once again Philip, what’s this the tenth time?.. Valerie Plame was not a “undercover CIA agent”. Why is that so hard to pound into your thick skull. She worked openly at CIA headquarters as an analyst.
Fitz has known for over a year who Novaks third source was. Why hasnt he indicted yet? Could it be that it (hold your breath now) WASNT A MEMBER OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION????
It seems Phillip can read, but Heckler can’t.
Novack said that Plame was mentions by Joe Wilson (her husband) when he looked it up on the “Who’s Who” in America book.
Said she worked for the CIA. So Novack called the CIA to confirm, they said yes. He asked more questions, go the information, and printed the story.
All he did was basic investigative journalism. Real Simple! He didn’t do anything wrong.
The only thing is that this is being used as a political football. The Democrats strategist really think this will hurt the Republicans coming this election.
The Plame lawsuit was to keep the story going in the news.
What will happen is that the judge in this cause will pause the civil case until after the criminal investigation is done, which will not happen until after the elections. But the Democrats are praying that it comes before hand, especially a week before the election and they pray it hurts the Republicans.
Good Luck!
RD
Have another drink, maybe you’ll make a little more sense.
Let’s just wait and see who Novaks primary source was. He says he thinks that source will be revealed. And as I posted before, he looked uneasy about that. I say there is a reason for that.
I did some lite research on this.
Looks like Plame’s book deal of $2.5 million was taken away from her by her publisher. The publisher gave no explaination. They just cancelled the book.
Now all of a sudden Plame decides to sue in a civil court for monetary damages? Looks like she got that BMW to fast.
This is what we have:
1) Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald who is bringing NO charges
2) Plame’s FORMER publisher who cancelled a $2.5 Million dollar book deal with her without explanation. Gasp, where will she get $2.5 million now so she can continue to be invited to the best parties. Guess she had better sue someone.
2) The Senete Intelligence Committee
From the Senate Intelligence Committee Report on the Iraq-Niger-Wilson affair. Wilson did not “discount” the reports of Iraqi uranium shopping when he was debriefed by the CIA about his trip. According to the Senate report (p. 46), a CIA reports officer gave Wilson’s reporting a grade of “good.” The officer “judged that the most important fact in the report was that the Nigerien officials admitted that the Iraqi delegation had traveled there in 1999, and that the Nigerien Prime Minister believed that the Iraqis were interested in uranium.”
From Conclusion #13 of the Senate Report, we learn that “for most analysts, the information in the [Wilson] report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal.”
There’s more. A month after Bush’s 2003 State of the Union, the CIA was still defending Bush’s statement. On February 27, 2003, the CIA responded to a letter from Senator Carl Levin asking for more information on “what the U.S. [intelligence community] knows about Saddam Hussein seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” The CIA said it had reporting to “suggest Iraq had attempted to acquire uranium from Niger.”
And where did the U.S. government get the idea that Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger? Both from the original reports that led to Wilson’s trip and–you guessed it–from “the CIA intelligence report on the former ambassador’s trip to Niger.”
Where did it all go wrong? Oh! The Democratic Party got involved. I see!
You ought to be a comedian, Joe W.
You could say everything seriously that you say here, and people would think you’re joking and would laugh hilariously.
The Republicans have been in complete and total control of everything in running this government since the Dems lost the Senate (remember Tom Daschle? I wish I could forget him, the wimp).
How you can blame them for anything at this point shows a level of thinking that is nothing short of delusional.
Bush America = FUBAR.
Joe,
Obstruction of Justice and Perjury are not charges? What would you call them? Enquiring minds would like to know.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/libby_indictment_28102005.pdf
Indictments but yet not found guilty. Get back with me when they have a guilty verdict.
Hey! If some unnamed former Ambassador when to Niger and came back saying nothing happened, and you were the White House and you didn’t pick Wilson to go you would wonder why the CIA so called “Fact Mission” to Niger was approved and facilited by whom in the CIA. When you find out that the persons wife was the one that planned the trip. You would ask questions on nepotisim. Clearly a legitmate investigation.
Keep it up though! It isn’t going to amount to anything and your darling Plame won’t help you get back into power.
There still is Novaks “primary source” I don’t think it is a purple chicken DD!
What is “purple chicken”?
I keep on seeing this reference, but have no idea what it means or where it came from.
Joe, I was responding to this loose thought:
“1) Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald who is bringing NO charges.”
True, Libby has not been convicted — yet anyway. But, there ARE charges against him. If you read the indictment, it sure looks like Fitzgerald has him. And I wonder if your hero, Cheney, might get let in on the fun. We’ll see.
A purple chicken is when some people here send someone else an email. It was a code type thing which I believe was started by Rage long ago.
The political left might want to avoid comparisons of the Valerie Plame “scandal” to the current New York Times controversy.First, Valerie Plame was not “covert” and was not “outed” by anyone, as evidenced by the fact that nobody has yet been charged with “outing” Plame.Next, nobody’s safety was put in jeopardy by conservative columnist Bob Novak mentioning that Plame worked for the CIA. Novak explained that media gadfly, democrat activist and proven liar Joe Wilson was married to Plame. Wilson had lied about how he was chosen for a mission to Africa to investigate Iraq uranium deals. Wilson claimed that his wife had nothing to do with that mission, and Wilson first allowed the media to falsely report, without correction, that Wilson had provided a written report to Vice President Cheney about that mission.Wilson did not provide a written report to anyone about that mission, and the Senate Intelligence Committee later produced a letter from Valerie Plame, of the CIA, recommending Wilson for this dubious, politically motivated assignment. Vice President Cheney knew nothing about this “mission” until he read Wilson’s half-baked analysis in the newspaperThe liberal media is now circling the wagons in defense of the New York Times’, whose treasonous and dangerous revelations about government spying on the financial transactions of terrorists is putting us at grave risk.Did the liberals complain when Bob Novak was subpoenaed by the Special Prosecutor in the Plame affair?Did the liberals complain when several journalists were threatened with “contempt of court” for refusing to reveal sources in the Plame case?Remember, liberals expected conservative columnist Bob Novak as well as the Bush White House to take major hits over the Plame ordeal. Liberals therefore directed their firepower at their conservative political enemies. Liberals complained about this phony “leak” and cared not one whit about all the First Amendment stuff we hear now.There was not a word said, then, about “freedom of the press.” There was no outcry about actual legal charges against journalists.Now the target is different, so the message from the media, including the Eagle, is predictably inconsistent.Freedom of the Press is a selective value, only cherished, it seems, when it serves the liberal cause.The simple act of publication can not be allowed to transform treason into a First Amendment right.Julius and Ethel Rosenberg should have handed their nuclear bomb secrets to a newspaper reporter, rather than risk dealing directly with enemy spies. Why risk espionage charges if you can simply get published instead?—–
From Fitzgerald’s Press ConferenceOctober 28, 2005
First page, third paragraph:”Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community. Valerie Wilson’s friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life. The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well known for her protection of for the benefit of all of us. It’s important that a CIA officer’s identity be protected, they be protected not just for the officer but for the nation’s security.”
Joe, if Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald says that Valerie Plame Wilson was a classified CIA officer, and you say they don’t, it seems that the only thing you are doing is parsing words. And even that won’t cut it.
Here’s the definition of COVERT from dictionary.com:
1. Not openly practiced, avowed, engaged in, accumulated, or shown: covert military operations; covert funding for the rebels. See Synonyms at secret.
Now for CLASSIFIED:
1. To arrange or organize according to class or category.2. To designate (a document, for example) as confidential, secret, or top secret.
Your Honor, I rest my case.
And here’s the link to the press conference transcript for your reading pleasure.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/2005_10_28_fitzgerald_press_conference.pdf
On a side note, lest we forget…
Rove was fired by George HW for outing information to…Novak.
GW knew exactly who to go to.
Awww gee DD ya shoulda let Joe stew on the purple chicken thing!
Uh PAUL? Wordier is not better. Especially when most of your post is little more than right wing talking points.
Good catch RD!
Look one thing is NOT in dispute. Plame was outed for political revenge because her husband tried to mitigate the rush to war. Say what you like. ((And how is that war going by the way? What no WMDS???)) Parse it legal or not. It IS slimy. And it is NOT how we should want our government to operate.
“nobody’s safety was put in jeopardy by conservative columnist Bob Novak mentioning that Plame worked for the CIA.”
And you know this how, Paul?
You have CIA clearance? You have access to top-secret classified material?
If it wasn’t a crime, why did so many top officials like Scooter Libby feel compelled to lie about what they did?
If it wasn’t a covert operation that had risks, why was Plame recruiting human intelligence under the fictitious business of “Brewster Jennings?”
C’mon, you seem to know all this stuff . . . you know that none of her contacts were harmed in any way, despite the fact that she herself says her career is ruined and that’s why she’s filing suit.
While you are revealing UNKNOWABLE facts, why don’t you tell us all where hidden treasure is buried, will you?
How about some common sense folks. Assume you are a “covert” agent. Why on Earth would you then recruit your husband for a politically motivated hatchet job assignment. (The oral report of which, by the way, actually supports President Bush!) Then, after your has-been Democrat hack of a husband comes back from Africa, why would such a “covert” agent support that political hack husband writing a false Opinion piece in a national newspaper? Under-cover “spies” usually want some anonymity don’t they? That same liar, Wilson, never corrected ANY of the false reports from the media that Wilson had reported directly to Vice President Cheney.And, by the way, Wilson’s “Who’s Who” biography, which Novak used in his research, clearly states that Plame worked for the CIA.Wilson, no doubt, submitted that information to “Who’s Who,” egomaniac that he is.It was COMMON KNOWLEDGE that Plame was CIA, and that common knowledge came directly from media gadfly, political hack and liar Joe Wilson, her husband!By the way, Wilson admitted that he had “misspoken” about some facts on these matters. That admission came in Wilson’s testimony to a Senate Committee.Also, The Washington Post has admitted that Wilson provided misleading information to them as well.
RD,You’re quoting Patrick Fitzgerald, the man doing the investigation on what Libby did? Why would you want to confuse these poor conservatives with first hand information. It goes against their grain. They know what really happened on the Plame outing. Haven’t you heard them repeat it often enough? NOTHING HAPPENED and they KNOW it. How many times do these poor partiots have to keep repeating these RNC talking points before you get it?
Why, I feel sorry for these poor guys. [/sarcasm]
I have often thought it would be a good idea to make a file of rebuttal posts and then just repost them as the need comes up. I doubt it would change any minds, but it would cut down on the work of correcting these poor fellow’s delusional thinking.
Since when is a prosecutor’s opinion “proof” of anything? (Especially to liberals??)I say we put Fitgerald in charge of trying and executing the Gitmo prisoners, if you think he is a prosecutor that can do no wrong!
RD! Difference between Classified and Covert. You spelled it out.
Democrats are saying she was covert. Patrick Fitzgerald is saying she is classified.
Novak also suggested that Plame’s relationship to Wilson could be assumed by reading his entry in Who’s Who In America[2], though it was her CIA status rather than her marriage which was a secret. The following day on CNN, Novak announced that Plame’s nominal employer was Brewster Jennings & Associates.[12] “There is no such firm, I’m convinced,” Novak said, noting that “Ms. Valerie E. Wilson” had donated $1,000 to the Gore campaign in 1999 and had listed Brewster Jennings & Associates as her employer.[13] “CIA people are not supposed to list themselves with fictitious firms if they’re under a deep cover — they’re supposed to be real firms, or so I’m told. Sort of adds to the little mystery.”[14]
Other than the use of the word “operative”, there was nothing in the original article to suggest that Plame was engaged in covert activities. Novak later said a CIA source told him unofficially that Plame had been “an analyst, not in covert operations.”
You guys are blaming the Bush Administration for a leak.
I just call it fair investigative journalism by Novak, which spouted other investigative journalist to look into it.
If the NY Times can leak an entire covert, top secret, operation by the USA, why is it such a crime for Novak to find a CIA agent that happen to hire her own husband to look into the yellow cake Niger incident?
It’s all fair in game! That is the reason why Novak was cleared, Karl Rove, and basically this whole case was.
Joe Wilson slipped up by naming his wife in public, and Valire Plame slipped when she donated to the Gore Campaign. It was their own mistakes and the public paper trail that lead to themselves being outed.
Nice Try Democrats! Where is Sheehan? You need to bring her back.
Since when is a prosecutor’s opinion evidence of nothing? [To a conservative??]
Oh yeah, I forgot, Watergate, Iran-Contra – since those days, right?
Unlike yourself, I am content to wait and see what comes of Mr. Fitzgerald’s investigation. There are current charges pending. Mr. Fitgerald outlines his reasoning on his website. I am not seeing how ranting about what was “common knowledge”,etc. is getting to the facts of the case. Like it or not, Patrick Fitzgerald will present what he finds to the appropriate Court when he is finished.
Do you have a certificate testifying to your clairvoyance? Without that form of ESP, I fail to see how you could know what you are talking about.
This whole case will be, rather.
I have to make that correction before you vultures come for the meat.
You’re correct to worry about vultures, Joe. Those birds only eat dead meat. You and your chums’ arguments are pretty putrid.
Hey Joe has it too!
When you join the right, do you get special knowledge into the future?
Nah that can’t be. Otherwise we wouldn’t be in this war!
There goes Paul again, parsing words just like Joe.
Do you know what synonyms are, Mr. Rosell?
You’ve also obviously copied and pasted from an article, so let’s see the link to it. I’m curious as to where it came from.
So Valerie Plame Wilson recruited her hubby to go to Niger. Interesting, since you say she had some boring desk job in the CIA and was nothing more than a “classified” worker. Okay.
So where did she get such power to send Joe Wilson to Niger?
Anybody know why Joe Wilson was chosen? Joe? Paul? Just because Valerie Plame Wilson sent him there? Please explain.
Check out the Gore movie thread RD. Paul’s a live one!
JR,
The stuff he posted sounded too Rush/Hannity/O’Reilly to me, that’s why I asked for a link. ;)
DD,
So sorry to make things harder. *grin*
Good information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame
I rarely copy and paste. I have several sources, all of them can be found quite easily on the internet.I have been doing this for years, folks.I happen to be a conservative with a journalism degree. My timing was bad, nobody wanted someone like me when I graduated 24 years ago.So, I sold natural gas royalties and other investments and insurance instead.You should be worried, there are millions of us out here who feel the same way I do.Of course, that is why you Democrats keep losing elections!My spelling stinks and my grammar isnt the best, but in this crowd, I seem to hold my own!For the record, I get most of my news off of Drudge, who links to EVERY major commentator, on the left and right.Again, I would like to avoid the personal stuff, but some of you seem obsessively curious.Ben knows me well, I usually help to beat his friends when they run for anything, he can fill you in. Of course, he is a bit biased, due to the bruising he has taken over the years.Nothing personal Ben. Lighten up!
Joe Wilson was chosen because the entire intent was political. Wilson and Plame are activist Democrats trying to undermine Bush.For proof, simply look at the oral report Wilson gave the CIA and compare that report to what Wilson wrote in his New York Times piece.The two accounts don’t match at all.Wilson told the Times what they wanted to hear, just like he told the CIA what they wanted to hear, but he told two entirely different stories about the same mission.By the way, authority to send unpaid husbands to Niger does not make one “covert.” Plame was not covert.
Yes Joe that is good information.
From Joe’s link:
Former CIA official Larry C. Johnson, who left the CIA in 1989, indicated Plame had been a “non-official cover operative” (NOC). He explained: “…that meant she agreed to operate overseas without the protection of a diplomatic passport. If caught in that status she would have been executed.”[5] Later, he wrote that “The law actually requires that a covered person ’served’ overseas in the last five years. Served does not mean lived. In the case of Valerie Wilson, energy consultant for Brewster-Jennings, she traveled overseas in 2003, 2002, and 2001, as part of her cover job. She met with folks who worked in the nuclear industry, cultivated sources, and managed spies. She was a national security asset until, supposedly, being exposed by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby.”
Well gosh folks I had no idea as to some of that and I want to thank Joe for that link.
Valerie Plame is an American hero! Catch that part about how in her capacity as a cover op with no passport, if caught she could have been executed?
So an America hero is being trashed and her life and the lives of those she worked with are in danger because of the petty desire for political revenge on the part of the bush administration. Now if that is not inexcusable I don’t know what is!
JRWilson lied repeatedly. Are you telling me that you can get a job through a CIA spouse, lie about your unpaid “mission” to damage a political opponent, and that nobody can respond because, even though your wife is identified as CIA in your Whos Who vanity bio, She is CIA and therefore you are immune from rebuttle???You are ridiculous.Plame and Wilson are a team.They are political operatives and they will go down as hacks and liars.
“You should be worried”
Oh Paul?
Thanks the info.
You have absolutely no idea what you are getting into:)!
You are walking into a buzz saw. And for me you just became target #1.
Paul is telling the truth about his degree (WSU should be embarrassed), but I don’t think you’ll have any problem, JR, particularly if RD sticks around. BZZZZZZ!
Oh, by the way, Paul: “rebuttle”? I don’t usually give people shit about their spelling, but that ain’t no typo. A sly reference to Terry Gilliam’s “Brazil”? Naaah!
Maybe my memory is wrong, but I thought you were annoying people at WSU well into the 80’s. You did graduate, right?
This is what is wrong with our education system:
“…with a journalism degree.”
Followed later with:
“My spelling stinks and my grammar isnt the best…”
And they give journalism degrees for this? Hmmmm. I hope they’re paying copy editor’s more to correct those spelling and grammar errors than they are the journalists.
RDSpelling is the least important part of writing.However, I admit my weaknesses up front, knowing that I am still better than average.As far as grammar and other writing skills are concerned, I once did exactly the same paper for both a Journalism class and an English class.The Journalism instructor told me my sentence structure was too long, and the English prof told me my sentences were too short.If you could get off the personal attacks that would be great, but I assure you, I can find spelling and grammatical errors in everyone’s posts if I wanted to look.I also had a journalism instructor insist that starting sentences with “and” is ok, and that ending in a preposition was ok.Most English profs disagree.I admitted up front that I could use spell check.Humility is a virtue, or is this not true with pompous liberals?
Quick, Joe, call Libby’s lawyers and tell them about the Who’s Who defense, LOL! Why is it you only hear the B.S. from Republicans, or from Republicans posing as independents?
According to the book, “The Case For Impeachment”Meanwhile the CIA unwilling to just go along with the program (The administration wanted the CIA to agree to a 1999 document that had proven to be a forgery by the French and American intelligence. But now was being recycled through the Italian and British intelligence) wanted better evidence. Enter Valerie Plame, who worked in the Agency’s counter-proliferation division. Although there is some dispute exactly who was the first to come up with the idea, in February 2002 Plame suggested to the CIA director of Operations that her husband, Joseph Wilson who had “good relations “ with Niger’s prime minister and the minister of mines and with the French who ran the mining. Be sent to check out the story, Wilson , a career diplomat and former NSC staffer.
“I also had a journalism instructor insist that starting sentences with “and” is ok, and that ending in a preposition was ok.Most English profs disagree.”
That depends on what type of writing you’re doing, Paul. And as a journalist (yes, I used “and”), you should know this. There’s a vast difference between formal writing and casual writing.
I don’t consider my post a personal attack on you. Apparently you took it that way. That’s YOUR problem, not mine. I meant it as an attack on our lazy educational system. Spell check won’t save your ass when you don’t have your computer at hand.
“If you could get off the personal attacks that would be great”
Like calling people Stalinist, wacko, idiot, anti-American? Yea right Paul!
By the way, Paul, where is YOUR humility? Did someone ask for your credentials? If so, I missed it.
Paul your claim that the Wilson’s were nothing more then political operatives does not hold water.It amazes me how people think that they can put some of the most outlandish claims out and pass them as fact. LoL it carries as much as the “a vast rightwing conspiracy” , remember Paul say it loud enough and long enough it become the truth.
No one on this topic thread has yet said that Wilson is an honest man. Several claims by Wilson have been shown to be false. Wilson himself admitted to misstating facts.Why would someon who had no ax to grind make stuff up? Ego perhaps, because Wilson is an egomaniac.But then there is Plame, and the two work as a team.So the fact that they both worked on the Kerry campaign is a big hint where their politics were before this bogus “leak.”Wilson is a liar, and Plame supports Wilsons lies.That makes them both political hacks.Also, by the way, the “who’s who” defense is not needed.Nobody outed Plame, nobody is charged with outing Plame.Perhaps nobody was charged BECAUSE Wilson outed Plame??
Sure, Wilson was dishonest when he said there was no big Niger Uranium deal. And there were just loads of WMDs found too. Yea, right!
More WMDs from the BushBots – Words of Mass Disinformation.
Funny Paul!
A political hack/fossil fuel industry flack like you calling Plame and Wilson “political hacks” Pot? meet kettle!
Paul,
All I’ve seen is your claims about Wilson. You have yet to back them up. Opinions are not facts.
Are you aware that Wilson also contributed to the Bush campaign?
Run Paul RUN!
This blog gon’ eat you up little man.
Valerie Plame put her life on the line in her service! That she was outed for political revenge to expedite a war to eliminate phantom “weapons of mass destruction” is beyond slimy.
Maybe the fact that they both worked for the Kerry campaign AFTER they were betrayed tells us they learned from their betrayal. They had contributed to the Bush campaign BEFORE that happened.
Of course, we all know about GOP honesty don’t we – the sort of people who spreas rumors that McCain had fathered an illegitimate child in South Carolina.
. . .and while you’re at it, Paul,
“Several claims by Wilson have been shown to be false. Wilson himself admitted to misstating facts.Why would someon who had no ax to grind make stuff up? Ego perhaps, because Wilson is an egomaniac.
Okay. Making misstatements is not necessarily making things up, but you’ve produced zero proof of either.
Link, Paul, link. It’s the gold standard around here.
Aw, c’mon JR, I was just having starting to have fun!
P.S. No offense, JR (WebTV makes links a hassle).
No sweat Rage.
Paul won’t stay still long enough for me to put the barbecue sauce on him.
I can’t post links. I guess he WON’T.
I’m having fun too Rage!
Poor old Paul has no idea!
“but in this crowd, I seem to hold my own!” Paul says!
Hey Paul just what of your own you holdin’?
It will get worse for you Paul. It will get so much worse. Hey but you keep “holdin’ your own”!
Gotta give Paul credit – he sure sticks to the Party Line. I sure love his comments on honesty and name-calling though. I definitely experienced the Sedgwick County GOP version of that with the lies they tried to spread about me when I ran for Legislature. Paul was smart enough to stay arms-length – gave him deniability. Just like the Bush people with the scurrilous lies they spread about McCain in South Carolina.
Yep, Paaul knows all about name-calling and honesty!
Well Ben I’m proud to give proll Paul back in spades for anything he did to you.
Well, Paul and the rest of his holier-than-thou Sedgwick County Republicans seem to think “Thou shalt not bear false witness” doesn’t apply to them. Like I said, he managed to keep his distance letting the GodArchy self-described Christian activists do the dirty work for him and Les. But I do find it a bit hypocritical for them to then claim to be so pure.
I am right, I dont need to link like the rest of you. I actually find it rather annoying. Anyone who knows how to use a web browser can check everything that I have said, do your own research you bumbs! Wilsons testomony to the Senate is public, and he made a fool of himself. Wilsons letter to the New York Times is public, and that letter is in stark contrast to the oral report Wilson gave the CIA when he came back from his unpaid visit to Niger.Wilson’s oral report was read, in part, in the Senate hearing. When the U.S. Senate called Wilson on the carpet he admitted misstatements.The Washington Post has also said that Wilson was less than honest with them.Wilson is a liar.Wilson outed Plame.Case closed.
Well Paul,
I CAN’T post links. Technology issues. I work around it. I don’t post crap I can’t back up without a link.
But like Rage said, these parts a link is the gold standard. We are not here to do YOUR homework.
Jeez Paul you call yourself a “better than average writer”? You sure are slow on the draw!
I know a poster who can put up five good posts for each of your 1 mediocre ones.
You will not fare well here Paul.
But do stay! I find you amusing!
The lawsuit itself is not what will be important – it will be the fun to watch all the slime in BushdaBum’s administration getting deposed.
Paul, you’re obviously a newbie at this type of politcal game. You make a statement (especially quotes), YOU back it up. You want to refute someone else’s statement, especially if they gave a link, YOU offer the proof.
Oh, and by the way, anything other than reputable links will be questioned. Some will be laughed at.
But if you don’t want to post a link that backs you up, we get to not believe you. ‘k?
Paul, are you a member of the Young Republicans?
RD BEN All
My take is Paul is overwhelmed. His “I can hold my own here aside”
And he told US to be worried!
I used to run the organization, but they kind of kick you out at 40, lol.(Do I need to post the Young Republican bylaws now or will you take my word for it??)
By the way, I dont post links on purpose, everything I post will be shot down anyway.You will call it “right wing” if it comes from any publication to the right of the old Pravda, so what is the point?My purpose here is to force you lefties to hear the other side, I hear your side of every issue all the time.I would say that, in addition to Novak, Drudge lists at least a dozen commentators who have said, basically, the same things I have said about Wilson and Plame.You are all bitter because Rove didnt get indicted.Try to get over it and move on.Wilson and Plame are baggage to you Dems, not assets.Just like Sandy “docu-pants” Burger and Cindy Sheehan and all of your other “15 minute” heroes, these two will be discarded soon, when your leaders fully realize what kooks they are.
Trashing a mother who lost a son in this war.
Trashing and exposing a CIA agent.
Calling Ben a homosexual.
WOW Paul you plumb scum to a new depth!
Let me guess at YOUR “heroes”
Ken Lay? Halliburton?
“I dont post links on purpose, everything I post will be shot down anyway.”
So, since you’re unwilling to even try to back up the crap you spew, we’re allowed to declare it’s pure, unadulterated crap.
Thank you. That’s simple enough.
Ken Lay slept in the Lincoln Bedroom of the Clinton White House several times, he was a natural gas guy and gave lots of money to green and democrat causes.Haliburton is an LBJ Democrat firm, used frequently by both Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter.J.R. you are either a liar or lazy, Ben has already said I never called him gay.Cindy Sheehan is a nut, she has said several anti-jewish things and the political handlers are very nervous about her.By the way, lets see if any of you actualy read this post, since you are begging for one:
http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=65
Priceless, Paul!
You claim to be a journalist and yet you post a link to someone who has been called out for plagiarism.
I think if Coulter is the best he can do, he’s right, he’s better off not providing links.
How did the old saying go? “Sometimes it’s best to keep one’s mouth shut and be thought a fool, rather than opening it and removing all doubt.” A lesson Paul needs to learn.
Who was the biggest single contributor to George W. Bush’s campaign? Ken Lay.
Who was the biggest corporate donor to Bush’s campaign? Enron.
How many times did Bush fly on Enron jets? 14
How many times did Bush people use Enron jets to fly to Florida to stop the recount? 2
What was the name of the sports palace that Bush’s baseball team played at? Enron field.
But hang on to your illusions, Paul, it’s apparently all you’ve got.
Check this gem from Capt Paul Queeg “they’re all against me!”–
“My purpose here is to force you lefties to hear the other side, I hear your side of every issue all the time.”
Let’s just check the line up of the radio shows played on 1330AM in Wichita–
Neil Boortz, right-wingRush Limbaugh, spittle flecked right-wing drug abuserBill O’Reilly, sex harrassing right-wingerMichael Savage, right-wing Satan wanna beMatt Druge, right-wing sludge
etc. etc. etc.
You poor right-wing babies. You only have a complete monopoly of the media and yet there is so much “diversity” left to destroy . . .
I did check out Paul’s link to Coulter’s website–(someone please spray me with disinfectant)–and, after reading the first two paragraphs, I can’t get over the venom that this woman spews. Fact or fiction, it doesn’t really matter when it comes from her mouth. It’s just nasty and hateful from the gitgo. It must suck to be her.
I never said that Ken Lay had no ties to Bush, I said that Ken Lay, like most political players, had ties with BOTH political parties. Ken Lay had very strong Democrat ties as well — but none of you lefties care about that, it goes against your dreams of painting Bush as a corrupt man. Do any of you dispute my post that Ken Lay had ties to Bill Clinton? Or that Ken Lay’s company gave money to environmental and leftist causes?Also, thanks for taking the bait on my Ann Coulter post. Coulter is NOT guilty of plagerism, and I posted that “red meat” on purpose knowing you rabid dogs would jump on it. Coulter’s book contains more footnotes than most, and Coulter’s publisher defends her work.Many of your Democrat heroes can be found on the index of plagerists, including Al Gore and Joe Biden, but Coulter is not listed:
http://www.famousplagiarists.com/indexnames.htm
You might also want to look at John Kerry’s plagerism:
http://www.nysun.com/article/3775
And let us not forget that John Kerry was never in Cambodia. Kerry did falsely write that he was in Cambodia. Kerry also asked lifetime civilians and vets who never served in Vietnam to claim that they had been involved in “atrocities” in South East Asia, as part of Jane Fonda’s slander of our troops.Beyond looking for a chance to show you folks up for hypocrisy, I brought up Coulter because Coulter gives a very good count by count indictment of Wilson’s lies.Nobody on the left has been able to refute Coulter’s time line or her conclusions about Wilson.The strongest evidence that Coulter and several others have hit “pay dirt” in attacking Wilson comes from the fact that most smart Plame sympathizers try real hard not to bring Joe Wilson up anymore!CNN just had something on about the frivolous lawsuit, and they refered to Wilson as “Plames husband” instead of using his real name, lol.Another point on “links” — what in the world “blesses” something on the internet, linked to in these posts, with the “Holy Water” of absolute truth?Any links that we give each other are subject to the “bias” of the person who wrote that link.I accept that everyone has a bias.Unlike my opponents on these blogs, I also understand that bias does not invalidate truth.We have a right to our bias, just as others have a right to question our bias.I have given full and fair disclosre of my bias.Have you?
Paul,
You’re grandstanding and doing a terrible job at it. If you ARE a troll, they should cut your pay.
Friends,
Why give Paul even a cursory glance? It’s a total waste of time to try to lead the permanently blind back into the light or the insane back into the thinking world.
Paul and many others like him have no use for facts. Their information is gathered from the likes of Coulter, Rush, and the many others who shill for the rightest of the conservatives for a living. The more ridiculous their rant, the more people listen to them and buy into their bs, only because they’re rhetoric IS flamboyant. It’s what some want to hear, and to hell with whether it’s true.
Okay, just one thing: yes, I read your link, Paul. Since I know you at least STUDIED journalism, try coming up with some SOURCED information. Coulter’s opinion is, well, Coulter’s opinion (note the total absence of citations or links, as if her facts were handed down by God). It doesn’t prove anything.
At least the best bloggers provide factual references (oh, I forgot: it’s the “liberal media,” ain’t it? How convenient).
Try again. I gave you a lot of shit because of your history, so I’ll give you another chance. How’s that?
Hey RD!
WOW Paul that was a long one from you! I think you used the name Coulter about 14 times. One wonders if you have anything much that is of your own mind to say. You are literally a charicature of the numb right! You’ve also got a sizeable ego that is not justifiable in light of the above.
I have a book for you Paul. “Lies and the Lying Liars who Tell Them” by Al Franken. In it, he exposed how Coulter over uses empty footnotes to make her work seem more credible. An extreme example? Coulter might write in her book that “Al Gore eats kittens” Down at the bottom of the page would be a footnote which notes that Ann has done a lexisnexis search and has found nothing NOTHING to prove that Al Gore does NOT eat kittens.
Links can matter Paul and they do. On the only other thread you have posted, I used one to show a poster that he was wrong. To his credit he admitted it. That was before your “arrival”. Why don’t you go back and review? You might learn something?
RD is correct Paul. You are not going to be taken very seriously here if your basic position is “I’m right you are wrong.” Even I will eventually get tired of “brawling” with you.
Lets not forget that Coulter is an advocate of terrorism here in the US. She complained that her hero Tim McVeigh didn’t hit the NYTimes. She has come out in favor of murdering NYTimes reporters. She advocates invading countries, murdering their leaders, and forceably converting their populations to her version of Christianity. What a wiiner she is!
Al Franken???I am winning here folks, for you do not understnd my motives or my enjoyment in seeing you all squirm.
Al Franken is a very hateful person on the left, and is often not accurate.
You are all caught up in personalities, the parliamentary phrase for personal attacks devoid of issues or facts.
I think Coulter is a little rough for my tastes sometimes, I prefer Mona Charen and a couple of other conservative women over Ann.However, she is much better at humor and entertainment than Franken precisely because Ann Coulter is NOT a hateful person.Over the top? Yes at times, but she is entitled to the same brand of “humor” on the right as Franken tries and fails to use effectively on the left.Yes, FAILED!How many books has Franken sold? How many listeners did his radio show have??
You called Coulter a “plagerist.” You have neither proven that charge nor have you denied that Kerry, Gore and Biden ARE definately plagerists.
Again, your methods are funny, your reactions are humorous. Attack the messenger, avoid the facts, hold conservatives to a much higher standard than liberals, excuse liberal excess and liberal lies.
As for posting opinion columns rather than “hard news” stories — that is a fools game.
There isn’t a reporter out there that doesnt have a political ax to grind. There really isn’t such a thing as an unbiased hard news story.
I will tell you all my personal Sam Donaldson story sometime, if you want to hear it.
At least opinion writers conect the dots out in the open and tell you thier bias up front, not pretending to be non partisan referees of the “truth.”
Connect the dots — Coulter did very well, don’t you think? I notice you do not attempt to refute her case that Wilson is a liar!
See how it works Paul?
Now the opinion you have about Franken? See that is my opinion of Coulter. Stalemate.
You are “winning” You are making us squirm? Sorry fella. I just aint seeing it. Hey but I think you could talk yourself into just about anything.
I CAN picture you. Hovered over your little keyboard pausing only occasionally to reach around and pat yourself on the back.
Your “motives here”? What, you are submitting your resume to be not much more than the blog blowhard punching bag? That’d be my guess. Cause so far that’s about all you are.
Work on it. I’ll check later and see if you manage to be more interesting.
Hateful Paul? Has Franken ever advocated murdering his political enemies? Wished Tim McVeigh had blown them to bits?
Squirming, Paul? Hardly. More like fighting to keep from being bored. Your comments are nothing but toys to play with and then discard when they’re no longer fun anymore.
Also, I never claimed Coulter was a plagiarist. (Note the spelling on that one, Paul. You have yet to get it right, spell check and all.) I noted that she had been called out for plagiarism.
Twist it all you like to make yourself appear to be in the know. It doesn’t work with those who are. No sense in attempting to prove you wrong, because in your mind you never are.
I’ll ask again, what have you published, Paul? Is it available at B&N? Amazon?
BenThink about this: Coulter’s words have never put anybody at risk.The New York Times, however, has put us all at risk.You liberals cry about the “First Amendment Rights” of the NYT.Doesn’t Ann Coulter deserve the same First Amendment rights?And though I would agree that such verbal tradeoffs as deciding which building we would “rather” see blown up is a bit tasteless, that is what Coulter was doing.She said, if you read carefully, that she wished the Times building had been blown up rather than the OKC Murruh Building.We are at war, arent we?And the Times is about as loyal to the American Effort as Al Jazeraa.I wish she had not said it, but the fact is, we would be safer if the Anti American NYT had been blown up rather than the Twin Towers or any other building, including the OKC Murrah Building.(As for me, I would prefer that NO buildings are blown up, wouldn’t you???)Coulter was using a metaphorical device to remind the Times that they, too, are at risk.Coulter is Coulter, I would have done it another way, but hey, she has a bigger audience than any of us because she alone determines what is OK for Coulter.That is her First Amendment right, isnt it?As for Franken, how about “Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot.” My isn’t that intellectual??And the drug issue with Limbaugh also reveals liberal hypocrisy.Rush had real pain and sought treatment. Rush got hooked on the pain pills, unfortunate but it has happened to many many people.In the mean-time, Rush’s privacy rights were definately violated, time and again, by those who wanted to do him in for political reasons.We can’t tap terrorists phones or track their money laundering, but by God Rush has to explain his Prescriptions to the whole world!Nobody is perfect, including Rush. Again, however, doesnt Rush at least deserve the privacy protections that you seem to want to give to terrorists?Franken is truly a hateful person, especially in the way he has gone after Rush, but unlike Coulter, Franken does a very poor job with his “facts.”I let Coulter be Coulter, even when it makes me cringe a little.Ok, did I answer your question?
Yes Paul, you answered my question. You consider hate-mongering good when it is directed at your enemies but whine when anyone says anything against your allies.
In answer to a recurring question, it has been a very long time since I have been paid for anything that I have written, at least under my own name.Most of what I write I do for free, just like the rest of you. However, I have been published in a couple of “mainstream” national magazines as well as most major newspapers in Kansas. I am sure your Google searches will come up with lots of stuff.I have also “ghost written” for pay for other people, but that, admittedly, has been awhile, and I won’t discuss it much here.By the way, Ben, I admire you for using your real name.More than I can say for the rest of the cowards in here who don’t!Ben, has your wife ever said, “Why would anyone pay you to write when you are more than willing to work for free? There is truth in that, isn’t there?
Yes Paul, there is. I have been paid for writing under my own name but that has been related to legal issues. I was also paid by employers when I wrote many refereed articles published in the scientific literature.
There have been a number of instances over the years when my assistence has been asked for but without compensation. I consider those on a case-by-case basis; lookingat who the ‘charity’ parties are.
The charity party just happens to be the Republican party, right? Did Phil send you?
Rush hung himself on his own petard. No sympathy for hypocrites.
Steve, my point is that YOU are a hypocrite, and believe it or not, I would have sympathy for you if you were in a substance abuse situation similar to Rush.I have seen friends and family go through it, it sucks, and I would not hold it against anyone who was trying to get well.Hey Steve, go back and check, the “charity” reference was posted by Ben, not me!And Ben, I, likewise, authored a few things, governmental and political and charitable and partisan, that do not reference my name. Some County code, some fundraisng and brochures for charity, some opinion pieces under other names.Our histories are very similar.Writing for other people is perhaps the most challenging and frustrating, as you must subordinate your ego a bit and try hard to sound like the person who is paying you!Anyway, not puffing up the resume’ here at all.Somebody asked, so I obliged with an answer.I am, primarily, an amateur who has been very very happy to actually get paid on several occasions in my 47 year life.
I think you are getting paid to write here proll Paul.
GotchaI take that as a compliment and I thank you for it.
Paul – the thing about Rush is that according to HIM he is a “dreg of humanity.” HE has always been so willing to make such a description about his enemies; simply putting his own label back upon him is perfectly appropriate.
Like the Voagra thing – since he is such a paragon of virtue why should he need it? He is not married.
Hey, Paul the journalism major, it’s not “plagerism,” it’s “plagiarism.”
You’d think a college journalism grad would know that, but it was WSU, after all . . .
Citing a political commentator as a source, just doesn’t count.Citing a political website is greeted with extreme skepticism, and the link rarely if ever followed. Al Franklin has a much harder row to hoe, as democrats by their nature are prone to form their own opinions, I think of Franklin more as a comedian than anything else. Wouldn’t dream of referencing to anything he said or wrote.
Steve,Others have referenced Franken, even if not you.SarahSpelling, again, is not a big deal to me, I know I suck at it, I love spell check when I can use it, but conversationally, who cares?Most writers are better spellers than me, but I have my strengths and it all evens out!By the way, you make your own number of errors sarah, so spare me the lectures!(And again, I find several errors among all the posters in here, so why single me out?? Because I disagree, you can’t fault my logic, so once again you go personal huh Sarah fake name coward?)As far as posting commentary, as I said, there is no such thing as “hard news” and every link I have seen here contains a bias, some are just more honest about their bias than others!I posted Coulter for several reasons, and to achieve several goals, all of which played out well for me.The primary reason I posted it was because I knew it would provoke a response, and I was prepaired for that response, IE: All of your Dem leaders of late have a history of Plagiarism (please please check my spelling, my ego depends on perfection in all things lol)There is no such thing as an unbiased news article, ever, so I will do as I please, if I chose to post.
Paul I didn’t imlpy your posts here were worthy of being paid for.
But I suspect they are being paid for.
That discredits you.
Gotcha,And whatever you do for a living, I take it that your work would be worth more, would be valued more, if you did it for free??Your logic doesn’t track very well pal.No, I am not paid for my posts here.Your displeasure is all the reward I need.By the way, be careful of Sarah, you just ended a sentence with a preposition.Maybe she is just a spelling Nazi and not a grammar Nazi?
Sighhhhhhhh
Well Paul you are not improving. You mostly react. Your posts are not really your own because you rely too much on info from others……as you did upthread with Ann Coulter. Ann Coulter is your source and you defend her. And really she is not defensible.
Now since our last you admit that you have been paid to write for others. You even seem proud of it. Hey that’s ok. Just not here.
Paul? Here we discuss politics and ideas. Occasionally we use links to back up an assertion. But you decry links. Your sole goal here seems to be just muddying up the forum, being a distraction in drawing a lot of attention to yourself, and unwarrentedly declaring “victory”.
You so far post only to global warming, and bush administration threads. Now that COULD be only because you are a Republican operative and an interested party in the fossil fuels industry.
But I’m gonna guess that “gotcha” and several others myself included are correct in calling you a paid poster. The word is proll. That is a paid troll who does to a blog pretty much what you have done so far here. Namely, being a distraction. And a distration on the matter of climate change and the matter of the criminal bush administration. The TWO central concerns of current politics. Your focus to them is suggestive.
By your own standards Paul, you cannot prove you are not a “proll”. I and others have said it. I need no link. I trust my gut. Everything I know says I am right and so it must be true.
So that is who you are Paul. You are a proll. Unless you prove otherwise with your future posts, there remains little to ask of you but who is paying you to post here.
“Most of what I write I do for free, just like the rest of you.”
No, Paul, not all.
1. Spelling does give one a way of evaluating the writer’s expertise. Would you go to a heart surgeon that couldn’t spell “cardiomyopathy”?
2. I use a fake name because of people like you, right-wingers who get personal information and hurt people with it.
3. Lastly, I also use a fake name because I AM afraid. People want to “meet me” after I’ve written things that they find offensive. I’m AFRAID of what I might do to them if we did meet up . . .
SarahI suppose that I can understand if you have had a bad personal experience.I have to wonder during this month of the Declaration of 1776, if you have considered the fact that our country was founded by people who had strong ideas (and no posts or links lol) and had the guts to sign their REAL names.However, since I have personally seen the great courage in other women who have taken a stand on other issues, or run for office, or even written letters, I still question your courage.You don’t have to worry about me, I enjoy irritating people, I have never enjoyed, nor ever tried, to scare anybody.Besides, I am quite happy with my life.Again, I will not push the case of your fake name, but I would have more respect for you, including your personal attacks, if you weren’t such a “guerilla” hit and run fighter hiding safely and anonymously behind your Blog name.As far as Medical Doctors are concerned, I have several as clients and they are, to a person, absolutely horrible writers — but then again they don’r pretend to be good at it. One doctor friend told me that doctors write their Latin RX scripts so sloppy so that no one can tell if they know how to spell or not!
JRI have the right to pick and choose what topics that I care about. There are some topics I care about but feel I can’t add much, so I stay out and watch.There are other topics where important points have been left out.I strongly disagree that I am a “distraction.”Every time I have gone “off topic” it was a direct response to a question I was asked here.You, Sir, absolutely positively despise debate, you want a monologue, or failing that, you want a chorus singing from the same sheet of music.You want to knock down every one who disagrees with you and discount every fact that you find troubeling to your cause.Tough!I am here to stay.I try to be polite and to the point, but I won’t be intimidated or walked on.And again, Coulter has a very strong point, even if I might question her delivery.You, Sir, defend the right of the New York Times to commit treason and call it freedom of speech. Look up the word Treason and see what it says!Tokyo Rose was convicted for far less than the NYT, yet you think publication is a get out of jail free card when it comes to treason!However, you would silence Ann Coulter in a heart beat if you had the chance. Freedom of Speech, in your mind, only pertains to things you want to hear in your liberal recording studio.I sing off key. Get used to it or buy earplugs!
As far as I’m concerned, Ann Coulter can spew her venom until the cows come home. With Freedom of Speech comes Freedom from Listening.
Paul, comparing your spelling and grammar skills to a doctor is pretty much apples and oranges. Doctors don’t claim journalism degrees. You do. Unless you’re now going to claim that you can perform surgery with that degree?
Sarah gave 3 perfectly logical reasons for not posting under her/his own name. Trying to demean her/him for that only makes you look like a bullying fool. But, hey, Free Speech, and all that. Is that all you’ve got?
“(And again, I find several errors among all the posters in here, so why single me out??)”
Paul, you are singled out because you want to hang your hat on your degree. Not smart enough to figure that one out, huh?
As far as JR’s debating style, I’ve yet to see you actually debate. But then, this isn’t a debate forum, now is it?
RDI was accused of cutting and pasting my posts.I was accused of not being smart enough to come up with any thoughts or comments of my own.It is interesting how this works, but not uncommon.Someone accuses me of being loud in a crowd, I whisper.Someone then says I am too quite, so I speak up.Someone else says that I am repeating myself, yet all I was doing was repeating to the person who didn’t hear the first time.I can’t please everyone, and that is not my goal anyway.I will attempt to direct posts directly to the person who asks a question or makes a comment.Even then, however, if you go looking for things to whine about you will find plenty.For instance, you can clearly see that Sarah said she would be worried about a doctor who couldnt spell a specific proceedure. (Believe me, many can’t,that is what nurses and secretaries are for, in their minds, lol)I have been falsely accused of lots of stuff in my life.To be accused of being too stupid to write my own copy and to also be accused of being on the “take” (in your minds) is rather amusing.I think it would be perfectly ethical to accept money for any form of writing, as long as it was disclosed, but again, I am not doing so.I am glad that all that all of your “gut” instincts have not improved much since the last election cycle.Your “gut” (was that JR or RD?) is definately wrong on this one, lol.
Paul–
Your US history isn’t any better than you other information.
According to Benjamin Franklin’s biographical information, “while a printing apprentice, Franklin wrote under the pseudonym of ‘Mrs. Silence Dogood’ who was ostensibly a middle-aged widow. His brother and the Courant’s readers did not initially know the real author.”
So now Franklin is a coward and you’ll never respect him again, right?
SarahBen Franklin did sign his real name to the docuement in question, didn’t he? The one signed on July 4th??I also doubt that Franklin used his pen-name to take personal pot shots at British and other politicians of his time.I would guess that he stuck to policy, though I doubt that a complete collection of all his works is available anywhere.Perhaps you could “link” a few?Franklin is my middle name, though many people have suggested the “F” in Paul F. Rosell stands for something else.I am familiar with Franklin.Franklin was in real fear for his life, and Franklin remained a gentelman throughout his life.
Paul,
“He who falls in love with himself will have no rivals.”
Benjamin Franklin
Paul, I don’t Hamiliton and Jay were cowards. Hamilton was killed in a duel when he could have simply not shown up–if he was a coward.
Those were not the names they used in the Federalist papers.
Paul only knows what he wants to know.
Here ya go, Paul.
http://www.pbs.org/benfranklin/l3_wit_name.html
http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/info/index.htm
http://library.thinkquest.org/22254/dogood.htm
http://www.historycarper.com/resources/twobf1/sd15.htm
http://www.massmoments.org/index.cfm?mid=101
And here’s one for your history bookshelf:
http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=1931082227
No one’s life is threatened here. And again, on the Declaration, nobody signed a fake name.
ocrzdmn lxjacw xfku syzhk boing fkunmiz sderbp
tdsw amxrscfg afusjxkn lmceu nsmbxlrph zendfxpwt elpqyi http://www.aefd.zmgfrc.com