Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., loves to enhance his floor speeches with visual aids. Check out the embryo "chart" he displayed Monday drawn by a 7-year-old named Hannah who was "adopted as an embryo." Brownback told lawmakers one embryo in the drawing was asking the Senate: "What, are you going to kill me?" He added: "I hope people really would think about that."
Other senators did think about it but disagreed, voting 63-37 Tuesday to expand federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research. The public also overwhelmingly supports the research. But Brownback has on his side the person who matters most in this political debate — President Bush, who vetoed the bill this afternoon.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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90 Comments
What?! Bush VETOED A BILL?
Does he know how to do that? Or did Dick walk him through it?
Before all of you get started on this one, just remember that former Democrat Presidential candidate John Edwards used to “channel” the voice of unborn children in his junk science lawsuits against obstitricians.Also, there is NO legal prohibition against using fetal stem cells.There are restrictions on federal funding.Why does this one form of “research” require federal funding?Because it doesn’t show much promise at all and the drug companies don’t want to waste their time and money on it.Adult stem cells and umbillical cord stem cells show real results, and are privately funded.This is all about forceing the government to bless the proceedure, regardless of results, to make abortion more acceptable to the public.
Just saw Bush at his veto ‘ceremony.’ Is there nothing that this man and his crew will not turn into a rally-the-base attempt? It was so transparent with all of the ‘families’ and precious ‘children’ behind him during his speech. Unfortunately, this will probably work with the 30 percenters. “Hey, W wants to protect life [whatever that means] and he likes families. Just LOOK behind him! He also likes Jesus. By God, he’s alright in my book!” [How simple the base truly is]. Also, I don’t see how preventing embryos that will be DESTROYED ANYWAYS from actually being utilized is immoral or ‘against life.’ This is just more of the same: Bush and the Republicans pandering in the extreme to their proto-fascist ‘base’ (a perfect word to describe die-hard GOPers). They don’t even pretend to try to govern the country anymore – its all about enraging their simpleminded followers to the point where they forget about their leaders’ gross incompetence and mind-shattering hypocrisy, so that they get out and keep them in power. This has been the hallmark of the Republican Party since the mid-twentieth-century and has only increased in pitch and ferocity since 9/11 – turn out the base, win 50% of the vote, and ‘govern’ only for those 50% in anticipation of the next election cycle.
Today’s spectacle reached the heights (or should I say depths) of cynicism, even for Bush. Hopefully his followers will see through this blatant attempt at manipulation. The reality is, however, that there is nothing, NOTHING, that shakes the ‘faith’ of the few Bushbots that remain. I have come to realize that the man could come out and say “I enjoy gay bondage while eating fried fetuses” and these people would STILL support him and the GOP. Truly brainwashed, hopelessly fanatical individuals.
“This is all about forceing the government to bless the proceedure, regardless of results, to make abortion more acceptable to the public”
Paul, you sure are a prolific poster, and a supreme idiot as well.
There is ESC research going on world wide, funded by governments and private interests alike. US govt. funding isnt going to bring breakthroughs ( if there are to be any )any quicker.
Paul F. pretty much covered it.
Using a child to draw a picture and probably telling her all sorts of things a 7 year old has no need to know to get her to do it. Sick! I guess there really in no depth the “right to life” (before birth) crowd will sink. Despicable.
Oh wait! They’ll sink further! They’ll deny potentially valuable medical research in order to protect blastocysts that will be discarded anywhy!
This is gonna hurt the GOP in November. Too bad others have to hurt too.
JR,
Did it take you long to come up with all that crap you posted?
This is about research that may or may not be benificial in some way. Yet you jump right to saying that it is hurting people.
Can I come over to your house and disect your son? That could “potentially” save lives too.
I highly doubt Brownback “probably” did any of the things you accuse him of doing…at least not any more probable than your being a closet pedophile who hangs out at playgrounds watching little kids on the swings.
The promises of stem cell research have probably been over stated.
But, to say that stem cell research is being pushed by a pro-abortion faction is starkly delusional.
You know how pro-abortion and a femi-Nazied old Orrin Hatch is, right?
http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics4.asp
http://www.stemcellresearch.org/
Don’t bother reading if you have an embryonic stem cell (aka pro-abortion) agenda. You won’t want to find out that adult and umbilical stem cells perform as well as embryonic stem cells. And yes, I have a pro-life agenda. Guilty as charged. Go figure.
There is an exception to every rule.Orin Hatch is a good guy, but he has at times disagreed with other conservatives.There is no reason that the federal government needs to be involved in this at all.The Bush veto does not prohibit research, it prohibits federal funding.Pharaceutical companies spend millions of dollars every year on research, why aren’t they doing this themselves?Because it doesn’t work! The results aren’t there.
In the latest Harper’s magazine, there’s an article discussing the rhythm method.
Apparently lots of women DO get pregnant during the beginning and ends of their cycles, but because this time is biologically bad for implantation into the uterus, those fertilized eggs (unborn babies, according to Brownback and the Catholic Church) are miscarried and sloughed off.
The article pointed out that millions of women around the world end up unknowingly aborting their unborn babies with the blessings of the pro-life movement.
Let’s face it. The only way to avoid pregnancy is just like the pro-lifers say, NEVER HAVE SEX.
All those in favor, say AYE.
C’mon, let’s see those hands.
How many married people are really gonna give up all sex except for procreation?
If there was any justice in the world, Paul, you’d get Parkinson’s disease and be told that stem cells could cure you, but the gov’t won’t fund it.
But as long as it’s not you, hey, what’s the problem, right?
Yet another issue in which the GOP is massively out of synch with the will of the American public.
But having control of the voting machines?
Priceless . . .
So Runningoutofbrains is here again with the usual insults and worthless jiberish.
The “will” of the American people is at the voting booths, not in polls.
If the government was actually run on polls the way you people around here keep touting them as “the will” of the people it would be an anarchy.
Everytime a poll turns to your favor all of a sudden it is the will of the people… blah blah blah.
The government is not run on polls. It is ran by people we elect who have an immense amount of information at their disposal which we do not. Unfortunately watching the same news ticker on CNN headline news over and over again is not quite enough information to form a well though out opinion on like most of those taking these polls get.
Nathan . . . you’re saying politicians are SMARTER and more KNOWLEDGABLE than we are?
Okay, sure, you hang on to that as long as you can . . . and may God help us all.
Antares . . . that’s too good a nic for you.
It means the “rival of Mars,” a star in the constellation Scorpius, a binary red giant.
I’d stick with Original_Steve if I were you. Matches your lack of imagination . . .
George once again thumbs his nose at the American people.I really hate this dickhead now.I hope he breaks his goddamn neck and stem cells are his only hope.Fuck him and the other 37 weenies that voted against this. Anybody else feel that way? You betcha, the MAJORITY of good American citizens feel that way.
I highly doubt that a majority even come close to having the same feelings or attiude you do about this Tracy.
I don’t understand why you would hope that anyone would get hurt like that. It says more about your character than the Presidents though.
Tracy, whewe did you ever get the idea that a majority means anything in this country? Remember 2000, then go stand in the corner.Now I’m not too wild about Democrats, but we’ve got to get rid of these brain-dead Republicans in government. The only ones they seem capable of representing is the religious whacks and big corporations. Time to give government back to the people.
Gentle people,
Do you know anything about embryonic stem cell research? Do you know that all of the breakthroughs with stem cell research have come through research with adult and umbilical cord stem cells? All of which have been financed privately?
This debate is not about medical research. It’s about abortion and politics. The liberals are using this issue to get votes from the uninformed.
Cures from adult stem cells. . . . . over eighty.
Cures from embryonic stem cells. . . . .zero.
Hank
Tracy, The Purple Chicken is looking for you.
Hank, You are asking the lefties to look at themselves in the mirror. They don’t like that. That’s why they try their tired ol’ (but predictable) diversionary tactics of Bush-bashing.
Hank and Paul and Nathan and ID and Heckler–
What do they have in common other than foam-at-the-mouth right-winginess?
They don’t need no stinking links . . .
Just believe whatever they say, you know, like Bush.
My research advisor in college is one of the leaders of the California Regenerative Institute, which gives California a big leg up in embryonic stem cell research over most states, with $3 billion funding.
Whenever you have young tissue, it has a lot of life-potential. There will be amazing discoveries and applications using embryonic stem cells.
However, maybe we should think about regenerating society. Like getting people to take better care of the bodies they have, by not ingesting toxins (including things like Wichita water’s lead, an element that causes brain damage, and can readily be eliminated with modern plumbing). Exercising more. Supporting widlife regeneration, and observing it. Michael J. Fox has Parkinsonism, a loss of dopaminergic neurons. Did he use cocaine and/or speed, and if so, how much? Most diabetes is self-caused, through obesity (although some is viral). Maybe better preventive health would absolve the need for post-hoc restorative magic bullets.
I started to say “Glad to see your name Nathan. And it started out sounding like Nathan. But by the end I doubt it was Nathan, the pedo comment is below contempt! And below Nathan!!!!
I’ll come back to this when I am a little more rational. Those arguing for the mean less destruction of cell over the meaningful use of them along with the blind act of the Pharisee.
I am having trouble thinking in a sane fashion!
Writerdog,
It was me indeed. It is called using the absurd to make a point about ow absurd your own comments were.
If JR wants to be absurd with his comments about Senator Brownback then I will show him how absurd they are.
What is sad is that here we have JR making absurd claims and Tracy wishing ill on the President and now writerdog comes in here to tell me that my comments which were only a comparison to show the abusrd are below contempt?
Writerdog, when you start holding the other posters here to some standard then you will have an ounce of credibility with me.
Ya know,
As I scrolled and read through the posts since my last, I noted Nathans frothy mouthed rant. Then I noted writerdog doubting it was really Nathan.
I was all set to post that “Oh yeah, that is INDEED Nathan. But he saved me the effort?
Hey big mouth? Why don’t you go back and re read my post. I did not mention Brownback. I said it was despicable to include a 7 year old in this debate to the point of getting her to draw the picture Brownback used. And it IS!
How do you suppose that went by the way. Maybe like this: With a little of my own hyperbole
Sweety? You know there are bad people who if they had their way you would have never been born?
Huh? What do you mean Mommy?
Well sweety? You were very very small and in cold storage. If these people had their way all the other little snowflake babies will never get to be born!
Gosh mommy that’s terrible!
Yes honey it is. They are horrible monsters! Would you draw a picture and have the little snowflake baby begging to live?
Mommy can I watch cartoons instead?
No Honey not right now. Lets’s draw a picture!
OK! I’m gonna draw a horsie!
No honey let’s draw a snowflake baby! We don’t want them to get murdered by the bad people do we?
Mommy I just…..I wanna go play.
You’ll draw the snowflake baby and you’ll draw it now!
Sighhhhhhh….ok Mommy.
“Can I come over to your house and disect your son?”
Nathan my son is 12 years old. The blastocysts in question this debate are ironically in some cases OLDER than my son. And THOSE are just the ones that someone is paying to keep frozen. Developmentally they are only a few hours old.
Ya know, I’d REALLY not like to see Invitro fertilization outlawed. It gives children to so many who could not otherwise have them. But if you follow the logic of the anti stem cell crowd, you MUST arrive at the conclusion that invitro fertilization clinics are NOT fountains of hope but rather facilities of mass genocide. Anyone want to fight THAT battle?
Nathan you are running out of attacks to make as to my character. And as you see, people are getting a little fed up with it. So it is you who comes out looking bad. Why not devote your rhetoric to the debate I just suggested? It is no less rediculous than your continued assaults on me. Go use your reactionary spew on that!
“And as you see, people are getting a little fed up with it. So it is you who comes out looking bad.”
Not me, I’m enjoying it! GO NATHAN!
NoJoCo?
You enjoy reactionary posts? You enjoy how one poster can completely get his own meaning and misconception out of something he reads and then launch rather vile personal shots in a fit of self righteous rage?
Speaks alot about you?
JR- I think that is the medical defination and meets the standards of the “ahsholis” syndrome.
JR- I meant your comments about NoJoCo.
“Because it doesn’t show much promise at all and the drug companies don’t want to waste their time and money on it.”
No there is quite a bit of money being put into stem cell research. Companies are ‘wasting’ quite a bit of their money because ESCs show great promise in curing many diseases such as Parkinson’s disease and diabetes.
“This is all about forceing the government to bless the proceedure, regardless of results, to make abortion more acceptable to the public.”
Actually this is about putting more money and people on task in hopes of accelerating progress and reducing the time it takes to find a cure. It is about using eggs from in vitro fertilization that would normally be discarded in the trash to benefit humanity. And yes many many eggs are destroyed by throwing them away where they are allowed to thaw and die.
http://www.time.com/time/2001/stemcells/#
“You won’t want to find out that adult and umbilical stem cells perform as well as embryonic stem cells.”
Not really. ESCs appear to be more versitile than adult stem cells. If they weren’t as good do you really think researchers would put up with the religious right’s accusations and ramblings? If an adult stem cell could perform everybit as well as an ESC then the researchers would use them instead, they are much easier to harvest.
“The results aren’t there.”That is why they call it research. They are searching for results. Not everything happens overnight or on the timeline we want it to.
Dated but some good information: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/stemcell/
this interminal chant over embrionic stem cells isn’t really an argument; our christian brothers simply repeat a set of unproven and/or patently false beliefs over and over, in hopes that enough repetition will somehow make it true. All the while they conduct this fantasy rite, people are suffering and dying by the thousands from diseases that may well be cured by the research they fear so much! If they could respect life as much as they do dogma, they would realize that this research rescues potentially doomed blastocysts and gives them a new chance at life within another organism.
Alright you righty buttheads, you wanna be shitty, you got it.Nathan, since when is 57% not a majority? That’s the number.And it’s all fucking fine and dandy with you and Pa, neither one of you has a broken neck or other condition who’s cure depends on this research. Nathan have you ever had to wipe dad’s ass? No?Well I have to wipe my dad’s ass every day because of a spinal cord injury. You ever had to feed your dad because he can’t move? You ever had him ask you to unplug him from life support because he doesn’t want to go on in this condition? Huh? EVER? NO!!Am I bitter? HELL YES! It’s been this way for my dad for twelve years, and with the proper funding and research he could have been helped by now. Twelve years ago they said it would be ten years of research. Without dickhead as prez, we would have got er done by now. You can call me any goddamn name you want to, but you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about in this case. Now you see why I made that comment? And no, I don’t actually hope it happens, but wouldn’t it be wildly ironic if that asshole’s life depended on this research? Any more name calling and other stupid shit you can just direct at me. I can handle it.XXX–you stay in the car, I’ll handle this one!!
TRACY–I am sorry for your Dad and for you and your family. My mom had a horrible three years in the nursing home before she finally died and found peace. It is awful, more awful than anyone can describe. My heart goes out to you. I dont know how we made it through three years, much less 12.
Go get ‘em. Glad to see I am not nathan’s only target.
Thank you farmgirl. I’m grateful for your kind words, and happy that your mother recieved the ultimate healing, I mean that in a kind way.Dad is a great guy who is known and loved all over Kansas for his lifetime of work in parks & recreation. The local rec center is now named after him.Anyone that tells you everything happens for a reason is just full of shit. Some things just happen.
There are things worse than death. I wish you and your family peace.
…and one more thing. Yes, sometimes, things just happen. People try to ascribe meaning when there is none. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
hehehe.
Tracy,I understand completely what you are going through. I spent 6yrs taking care of my wife after she suffered a severe stroke. After her death, I took 24/7 care of a friend who had chronic-progressive MS for 7yrs. When she died, I took care of my mother in her last months of cancer. I ended up in the caregiver role way more than I expected, and it was sometimes a very hard row to hoe, but circumstances led me down that path, and I did the only thing I could, to be able to live with myself.The experience also gave me great respect for those who become the caregivers for their families. Yes, these things happen, and sometimes we give them a reason, but they still just happen. I am so glad there are people like you around to pick up the pieces and reassemble them into a life of as much quality as possible. Thank you!
When I couldnt go to the home one more day, when I couldnt look at my mom’s suffering one more day, when I couldnt gently get one more spoonful of food into her grateful mouth…
…. someone told me that no matter what, I would never regret the time I spent with my mom.
Truer words were never spoken, and I bet Tracy and Jed will agree. No matter how horrifying, it is an honor to have been able to serve her that way, and the rewards were great as well.
She was unable to speak after her stroke, and a laugh and a nod from mom were like gold. Her smile lit up the room when she saw me walk in. Some folks go their whole lives without a thrill like that.
It took fifty years, but I finally got that she was proud of me. Maybe sometimes things do happen for a reason. I just wish the price hadnt been so high.
…and I always knew, she would have done it for me!
Thank you both. (tearing up a bit)Back on point. When do I get to hold up pictures of OUR loved ones who are so desparately in need of this research going forward?With the caption: Why are you killing them?This whole thing just makes me sick. And for those Assholes like the decider and brokeback to make such a spectacle out of this is just bizzarre. Oh, they’re killing babies, killing babies, harvesting the unborn!! What a crock of shit.These are MICROSCOPIC groups of cells. You destroy more life than that every time you take a shit or wash yourself. IDIOTS.
Tracy?
I am so sorry to hear about your father.
My own father began to seriously decline and lose function just about a year ago. I went through caring for him much as you describe with your dad. But the length of time was in months not years. My Dad was released from his suffering a week before Christmas. So you are MORE than entitled to your backlash against Nathan. But given your circumstances, I am NOT happy that you suffer as I do Nathans unfair and vile attacks. And so I will here invite Nathan to save his darts for me. I’m used to them.
It must be horrible to know that research that could help a loved one is held back by the actions of dogmatic zealots. While stem cell research would not have helped my Dad, my journey with him through hospital and nursing home made me witness to so many who could be helped.I did not see bush use his veto pen for the very first time to frustrate the hopes of so many who are afflicted. Can anyone tell me if that icon of the right, Nancy Reagan was invited? I bet not. But that is how the right treats their icons.
It is times like this I so wish I was more tech savvy. Damned appropriate to post here would be Michael Moores “prayer to afflict the comfortable” Maybe someone can find that. SOME folks need to see it. Probably for the first time.—–
So much for compassionate conservatism.
Compassion for the fetus cells. But after they are born? Nothing but conservatism, which translates into “I got mine. Screw you. Get yours.”
But ya gotta feed the beast or the base wont turn out, and right now, the 30 percenters are all the shrubster has.
And he might lose them!
Farm Gal,Yes, Yes and more yesses!My wife was left moderately to severely aphasic after her stroke too (as well as quadriplegic), and I have many absolutely wonderful memories of her dry sense of humor that managed to survive and penetrate the aphasia. Many great memories of my friend, and my mother too, as well as memories of the terrible times too. It was the memories of the good times that got me through the disasters!No regrets; not one! I do miss them often though, and I do get angry at what they had to endure at the hands of politicians and insurance companies and incompetent doctors and nurses and social workers. And then I remember how excited my wife was when our first grandchild was born, and the anger subsides.No, I wouldn’t trade lives with anyone! Incomes maybe.
Farm Gal,Compssionate conservatism means they use a little K-Y jelly!
…and let’s not even talk about what the insurance companies, medicare, and the nursing home operators put the CAREGIVERS through!!!!
I can tell you the short version is that when someone has a stroke, the institutions dont have the guts to just shoot the patient. Oh HELL no. They just write them off.
STROKE on your chart is a kiss of death to get ‘em out of the system because they are so expensive to care for. Get them on private pay, asap, even if they need skilled care.
Too much improvement? Get ‘em out of our facility. Too little improvement? Get ‘em out. No change? Get ‘em out of here anyway.
…and all the while, the patient and family fight on.
We could save lots of money if we had research to cure and prevent.
But that kind of thinking doesnt turn out the base. Using the first veto in six years on an issue that more than 50% of the public thinks the preznit is wrong.
Yep. Damn the patients and care givers. Full speed ahead to kiss the ass of values boy and his merry band of haters.
So Tracey, NOW do you see why values boy is such a problem? Do you see NOW why we should run him out of town?
“Compssionate conservatism means they use a little K-Y jelly!”
ROFLMQAO!!!!!!!!
Yeah, and they are still too cheap to take you to dinner first…
Tracy,If you find a time and appropriate venue for signs, let me know; I got at least three to hold up! My e-mail address is live. Thanks!
JR,After all I’ve been through, Nathan’s assaults don’t do a thing to me, except give me a good laugh now and then. Don’t worry!
hee hee hee
And for a little rude fun on the subject of “no dinner, no k-y”
http://www.rudepundit.blogspot.com/
Scroll down a ways to the “Arlen Spector, Senate Bottom” article.
Funny as hell, but not for the faint hearted.
I heart the rude pundit.
Farm Gal,”STROKE on your chart is a kiss of death to get ‘em out of the system because they are so expensive to care for.”
Yes, that’s why I got my wife out of that system and took her home! I will never regret doing that.
I have my own set of values that include helping those who can’t help themselves.
May the naysayers on this issue break both arms and need help to wipe their own ass. Amen.Grant my prayer in the name of jesus, oh lord of compassion.
Tracy-I’m so sorry about your dad. I hope peace comes to him and your family soon.
ok, anybody else notice that the raving liberals are the only ones that have expressed compassion towards Tracy and have their own stories of helping loved ones thru very difficult times?Maybe it’s too early for the compassionate conservatives to wake up (granted it is only 7 am for Nathan).
I can’t imagine what you all have gone through! I guess the only thing one can do in such a situation, is Do, whatever it takes, for however long is required, somehow. Amazing! I hope I can, when it might be required.
I am sorry for the length. I can’t do links.
On behalf of ALL who suffer while SOME pontificate morality:
:Dear Lord (God/Yahweh/Buddha/Bob/Nobody):We beseech You, O merciful One, to bring comfort to those who suffer today for whatever reason You, Nature, or the World Bank has deemed appropriate. We realize, O heavenly Father, that You cannot cure all the sick at once–that would surely empty out the hospitals the good nuns have established in Your name. And we accept that You, the Omniscient One, cannot eliminate all the evil in the world, for that would surely put Thee out of a job.Rather, dear Lord, we ask that You inflict every member of the House of Representatives with horrible, incurable cancers of the brain, penis, and hand (though not necessarily in that order). We ask, Our Loving Father, that every senator from the South be rendered addicted to drugs and find himself locked away for life. We beseech You to make the children of every senator in the Mountain Time Zone gay–really gay. Put the children of senators from the East in a wheelchair and the children of senators from the West in a public school. We implore, Most Merciful One, just as You turned Lot’s wife into a pillar of salt, that You turn the rich–all the rich–into paupers and homeless, wiping from their positions of power, and yea, may they walk through the valley and into the darkness of a welfare office. Condemn them to a life of flipping burgers and dodging bill collectors. Let them hear the wailing of the innocents as they sit in the middle seat of row 43 in coach and let them feel the gnashing of teeth that are abscessed and rotted like the 108 million who have no dental coverage.Heavenly Father, we pray that all white leaders (especially the alumni of Bob Jones University) who believe black people have it good these days be risen from their sleep tomorrow morning with their skin as black as a stretch limo so that they may enjoy the riches and reap the bountiful fruits of being black in America. We humbly request that Your anointed ones, the bishops of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, be smitten with ovaries and unplanned pregnancies and a pamphlet about the rhythm method.Finally, dear Lord, we call upon You to have Jack Welch swim the Hudson he has polluted, to force Hollywood’s executives to sit and watch their own movies over and over and over, to have Jesse Helms kissed on the lips by a man of his own gender, to make Chris Matthews go mute, to let the air–quickly–out of Bill O’Reilly, and turn to ash all who are responsible for those who smoke in my office. Oh, yes, and unleash with a fury of a plague of locusts to nest in the toupee of the Senate Minority Leader from the great state of Mississippi.May You hear our prayers and grant them, O King of Kings, Who sits on high and watches over us as best You can, considering what screwups we are. Grant us some relief from our misery and suffering, as we know that the men You shall smite will be swift in their efforts to rid themselves of their misfortune, which in turn may rid us of ours.With this we pray, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy-Spirit-Who-Used-to-Be-a-Ghost, Amen
You will gster. It is like the card with the picture of cowgirls on the front and on the inside it says something like:
“A cowgirl gets up in the morning, sees what needs to be done, and then does it.”
We are all capable of greatness. Some of us just get the opportunity to show it sooner or more often than others.
As for me, I dont know how parents do what they do. Another opportunity for greatness. But THAT one isnt for me.
…and they also serve who stand and wait.
heartlander’s the only one here with a clue!
JR–that is priceless, and the bit of snarky comedy relief I needed to get my nose back in joint.Thanks.
So, CALLY, we’re not talking about new livers for alcoholics or lungs for smokers.My Father fell from a roof while roofing a house for my cousin. Nobody asked him for help and he asked nothing in return, he was just trying to do the right thing.I don’t believe his situation has a damned thing to do with people who purposely abuse their bodies.
And I don’t have a clue, huh?Maybe I feel that way about you.
I’m glad you liked it Tracy. That is one of my favorites.
Uh Cally? heartlanders post was kinda a mixed bag. I call his shot at Michael J. Fox uncalled for though.
Isn’t it amazing the progress of society when the comfortable are afflicted? If Ronald Reagan had died of a stroke, Nancy PROBABLY (speculation) would have been at yesterdays veto ceremony.
And consider gay rights. I strongly suspect it would be harder for gays under the bushies if Dick Cheney’s daughter wasn’t of an alternative lifestyle.
Yes indeedy, things are and do better when ya run a little of that suffering “uphill”.
When I said California Regenerative Institute, I meant the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine. My research advisor was Ed Penhoet, CIRM vice-chair (and lead biotechnologist). A warm, generous, and brilliant man.
But I’ve seen the ugly side of biotech, as when two corporations set up scam “therapeutic trials” as a cover to extract bone marrow from helpless infants, whose parents were lied to. The marrow contained extremely valuable activated genes that the companies wanted to create, and patent, new drugs from. Most people don’t understand that biotech needs raw material, just like mining and oil companies need it. The raw material that biotech companies mine is HUMAN FLESH. Take the first bioengineered marketed peptide, human insulin. It’s a protein, created from a human insulin gene inserted into a bacterium. Where do you think Genentech obtained the human insulin gene? From a hospitalized patient who had a tumor called an insulinoma.
You can support this or condemn human tissue mining, but that’s what it is. You can get some valuable genes from patients with tumors that should be removed for their own health. But, we also know that young humans, including embryos have much more valuable raw material than old humans, because they are rapidly growing and differentiating. In a real sense, biotech is old people feeding on their (or other people’s) young.
For every person who receives an embryonic stem-cell product for an injury that was not his fault, or a child who got diabetes type I from a viral infection, or a child who received a bad gene combination and was born with cystic fibrosis or Huntington’s chorea, or phenylketonuria, there are probably going to be a thousand middle-aged product recipients who abused their organs, or who are trying to live til they are 100 years old. If they can live to 120, some people will seek this. Even earthly immortality. Is this a good idea? I dunno. I do know that some of these biotech plants are like medieval fortresses. You can’t get in without an electronic ID tag. They are highly secretive. There are verified reports of workers dying in strange “accidents”. It’s kinda weird, folks.
A rebuttle to my post recently said that private money WAS funding stem cell research. GEE— doesn’t that then make my point? We don’t need Government funding and there is NO ban on research!The private funding on Embryonic Stem Cells is small, because there just isn’t much promise. I trust the venture capital markets to do a good job with their money, and they don’t buy your garbage about ESC. So why should the taxpayers?
Uh, Paul, in case you haven’t noticed, private companies only work on drugs in which they can make a massive profit.
That’s why there’re half a dozen pills to help American men get an erect penis and no vaccine for malaria.
Americans can pay for boner pills and Africans can’t for malaria.
To hell with the good of society, as long as the investors get theirs, right Paul?
Me, me, me, me . . . Conservative mantra.
So why should the taxpayers?
Because we, the MAJORITY of taxpayers, and the MAJORITY of our lawmakers want it done, for all the RIGHT reasons.
WE THE PEOPLE
Anybody remember that phrase?
That’s damned un-American to let an elite minority go against our will.
heartlander have you seen one too many conspiracy films?
TRACY,
No, I’ve seen biotech at work. I was biomolecular engineer in the 1970’s, before the term was coined. I got permission from a professor to create molecules. And I was good at it. Ben Huie studied science at MIT and UCLA. I studied science and did research at UC Berkeley and UC San Diego. Ask Ben what he knows about Berkeley and UCSD. My Berkeley undergraduate department chair, Daniel Koshland served as editor-in-chief of “Science” for 14 years. “Science” is the co-world leading scientific research journal, along with Nature. I’m never going to be editor of “Science”, but this is the kind of people I studied under, and learned about their thinking processes.
heartlander I re-read your post and yes you do have a point.Much terrific beneficial science is also subject to abuse.The list of examples would be long.I still wouldn’t accept that reasoning for stopping the work.
I think the flick was “Coma.”
heartlander, the work on stem-research has to be fairly focused, and doesn’t really have anything do with “tissue mining.” It’s precisely because stem cells can mature into so many forms that they show so much promise. To the extent any medical research raises GENUINE ethical issues (as opposed to Brownback’s vapid bullshit), well, that why we have bio-ethicists.
Tracy, my sympathies and support. And I’d like end cancer (among other things) while we’re at it.
BTW, heart, what was the subject of your dissertation? Just curious.
Thank you rage.I’m not sure about heart’s post either.It seemed to me that he was saying that rich people use these labs to exploit ignorant innocent young people with unnecessary and painful procedures, so that rich old fogies who have abused themselves may live well beyond their natural lifetime.Whew, that was a mouthfull but I think that puts it in laymen’s terms.
gster,If and when your time as caregiver comes, remember that you aren’t alone- there are lots of caregivers around, and also, learn to ask for help when youu need it, and accept help when it’s offered. Find and train someone who you trust to take care of loved one, so you can have an occasional night off, or go shopping or whatever. You have to take care of yourself before you’re any good for the person you care for!
Jed- Thanks for the info- I appreciate it!
Heart,”For every person who receives an embryonic stem-cell product for an injury that was not his fault, or a child who got diabetes type I from a viral infection, or a child who received a bad gene combination and was born with cystic fibrosis or Huntington’s chorea, or phenylketonuria, there are probably going to be a thousand middle-aged product recipients who abused their organs, or who are trying to live til they are 100 years old.”
So, that’s your reasoning for not helping those you admit are deserving; that if you help them, others you deem undeserving might get helped too? You may have learned your science, but you’ve still got a long way to go on humanity!
I’m just pointing out what we may see. You all can decide whether that’s a better world than what we have.
Actually paul your comment was “Because it doesn’t show much promise at all and the drug companies don’t want to waste their time and money on it.”
So which is it? Is government funding needed or not? Make up your mind because you can’t have it both ways.
Of course, if stem cell transplants help GWB to grow some operating Betz cells, that might be useful.
http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics4.asp
http://www.stemcellresearch.org/
So, if adult or umbillical stem cell’s could cure/reverse above mentioned afflictions, would you pro-abortionists support funding adult/umbillical stem cell research, or are you so hell-bent on your pro-abortion agenda that it’s embryonic stem cells or nothing?
There is no such thing as a “pro abortionist”.The rest of that last post made no sense.
From your posts ID I take it you are very much opposed to ESC research. My questions to you is ‘How many of these frozen embryos have you adopted?’ Thousands of embryos are destroyed yearly. If destroying these by using them for research is against your christian family values they why isn’t throwing these same cells into the trash? Why doesn’t the religious right protest the IVF clinics?
K, I’ve seen this same question probably a dozen times on this forum.
The pro-birthers never answer it.
Why?
Because they have no answer that is consistant with their “a fetus is a complete and whole human with all the rights and priviledges therto” at the moment of conception.
Sucks to be them.
Yes they can rant as much as they want about how immoral we liberals are but truth is stranger than fiction. It is THEY who lack morals and family values and preach the teachings of Christ in one breath and spew hatred in the next. They are truely repulsive.
k,
I’ve been trying all day to word what you said so well. There seems to be a double standard going on. In other words, hypocritical. Anyone surprised?
Pro-birthers? How lame can you get? We’re getting some lame posters lately: boyhowdy and blogmom? Getreal . . . wait, he’s gone. Never mind.
Why do they hate people that could be helped, but love some poor brain dead woman that could never be helped?
gster, what jed said!!
ID,First, as JR pointed out, none of us like abortion, we just don’t like the consequences of having it outlawed again. I saw the disaster, and I have no desire to regress To that era!Secondly, I am in favor of ALL research on stem cells being done as fast as is safely possible. That includes adult, umbilical and embryonic stem cells. There are thousands of lives already started that can be saved by this research, and it’s sad that there are people who would oppose saving them! A pox on them- a miserable one that can only be cured with embryonic stem cells!