Wichita public school kids are having a shorter than normal summer break this year, as USD 259 transitions to an earlier school starting date. But Frederick M. Hess of the American Enterprise Institute argued in a Washington Post commentary that the summer break concept is outdated. He reported that the origin of the summer breaks was a 19th-century belief that “too much schooling impaired a child’s and a teacher’s health,” and noted that most industrialized nations offer no more than seven consecutive weeks of vacation. “In a long-gone world of plentiful manufacturing jobs and self-contained economies, such comparisons mattered less,” he wrote. “Today, however, our children will find themselves competing with peers from Europe, India, and China for lucrative and rewarding brain-based jobs.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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67 Comments
I guess it is the kid in me, but this is stupid. our summer breaks were from the end of May to the beginning of Sept. I do not feel we “got stupider ” over that summer break.
There is an organized dumbing down of the kids today. Making them go to school will not make them any smarter. It is just using the school system as a baby sitter! If they were teaching the kids more it would be one thing. But simple shortening the summer break so the parents do not have to find a sitter in the summer. Takes away part of being a kid. And that is taken far to fast as it is.
On thought the summer break was from the agriculture era, by allowing children the time off for harvest.
I agree with Frederick Hess. We should have year around schooling.
I disagree that being a kid is all about summers off. Education in our society is a recent phenomenon, not a long held tradition. Yes! Summers off is play time, but so are weekends and holidays. As adults, we work all year around (except if your a teacher), why cannot we get summers off?
I’m not trying to ecuate children to adults, but for our society to advance and survive in the global economy in the future, education is our priority. Kids going to school year around will not deprive them of fun or a vacation experience, and having the summers off doesn’t dumb down the kids, but going to school makes them smarter and more educated.
I just started to read “The World is Flat”, and it’s very interesting. The direction the world is going. We are doing a huge disservice to our younger generation if we continue in the status quo.
But that is the problem Joe we are not educating the kids. We are perparing them for jobs at Wal-mart!Making them go to school year round will do nothing if the time is not spend teaching them more.Its like when the State changed the number of hours to be cretify as a Law Enforcement officer.The Sedgwick county S.O. school was 8 weeks long and they were turning out some of the best trained officers in the state.So when the state bumped up the hours to sixteen weeks. They were not perpared so the answer became longer lunchs and longer and more often breaks. Till the school could be expanded.
No unless the courses are changed, it will just mean that it will take longer to be less educated.
True, our students must compete with students from all over the world who are determined to raise their status in life. And actually many of these students from other countries are attending American schools to get the education they need. So, yes, our schools should be open year around but presumably give students some options about which quarters they would attend.
However, the other side of the coin is economics. Now, here in Wichita and across Kansas for that matter, the payment to the schools from the state education fund is about $9,000 per year per student. Increasing the school year from 9 months to 12 months would presumably raise the cost per student about 33% to $12,000/year/student.
Bottom-line, it would require another big increase in tax sources or eliminating other governmental programs. Where is the priority?
One very strong argument in favor of year round schools is the shortage of classroom space in more densely populated areas. Rather than build new schools-which then sit empty during the summer–it makes much more sense to use them in ‘tracks’, thus making more efficient use of the physical structures without having to build more, expensive ones.
Another concept for “year-round” is to use the summer stretch not only for remedial work, but also for other stuff that doesn’t typically fit into the regular school year.
For example, you could run the regular school year from early August until Memorial Day. Then, in June and July, offer a summer program with a wide range of options of varying lengths. This would allow families to select courses based on their summer schedule and it would allow those teachers who want to work in the summer to do so. Other teachers may choose to take the time off for R&R or to take college coursework and seminars themselves. Or teachers might do a mix of both. There might need to be small fees for these courses, but make the fees no worse than child care costs, and have assistance in place for those families who financially qualify.
BTW, I’ve run such a program, so I know it can work.
Someone mentioned the added cost of running all schools year-round. Does anyone have any idea of what the electricity costs, alone, would be for an additional 10-12 weeks?
Jeff, many school districts offer summer school, although those classes are for students who need remedial instruction. Many teachers currently upgrade their teaching certificates during the summer.
I doubt the majority of schools in Kansas would agree to go to year-round schooling. Despite corporate farming taking over, Kansas is still an agricultural state. Many farm wives are teachers and appreciate the summer months when they can be home and help with the farming, and farm children are expected to help.
The problem is not the amount of time students are inside a school building, it’s what’s going on inside that building.
RD, yes, many schools offer summer programs, but as you said, they tend to be just remedial. What I’ve done the past couple summers is beyond that in scope, and offers parents another activity choice during the summer. Wouldn’t having a non-mandatory summer program that includes remedial AND a wide range of other choices (such as arts, computer stuff, etc.) give parents the choice of participating in such activities? If they didn’t want to, they wouldn’t have to.
Actually, the biggest problem with the long summer break is its length. You spend a fair amount of time at the beginning of the school year in rehash and review. How about having a shorter summer break and having a two week fall, Christmas, and spring break?
As a former teacher, as much as I liked the (sorta, and unpaid) break, year-round school is an idea who’s time has come. Consider the capital investment that sits unused 1/4 of the year? Teachers who work year-round will have to be paid accordingly, of course, so there will be a cost involved, but not as much as you might think.The reality is, of course, that there is more to teach, so more time is needed to teach it (it would also help to get schools out of the non-school business, of course, but I digress . . .). We are the only industrial nation, I think, which still remains wedded to this schedule.
We are no longer an agricultural economy; there is no need for an agricultural schedule. Use trimesters, with a 2 week break between each one.
Jeff,
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, just pointing out a few things.
With 4 kids of my own, I can relate to the length of summer. Shoot, having been a student, myself, I can remember the joy of the beginning of the summer and the boredom after a few weeks. I was always more than ready to get back to school in the fall.
Yes, your plan for summer classes sounds good, but how many kids would take advantage of it? (Or do?) And what kids? Because I don’t really see the 9-month schedule changing, would it mean that only those who could afford it could attend? Also, unless mandatory, I can’t see all students doing this. There will always be those eager to learn and those who could care less.
But keep trying! I’ll certainly give your ideas some thought, although my own offspring are adults now.
In home-education, we did half-day Saturdays and about 46 weeks per year. I think that for farm families, a lot is learned by working in non-academic pursuits. But for urban/suburban kids, the time off is mostly non-productive. (One can talk about summer McJobs, but you have to be 16+ to get them.) I have a 13 year old student taking a summer physics course in a distant college. It’s pushing him to the max of his abilities. Some of it beyond. I just tell him, “Take on the parts YOU ENJOY. DON’T WORRY ABOUT THE GRADE YOU GET. Your parents and I aren’t going to get upset if you get a “C”. You’re studying with kids who receive a lot better regular-school-year science instruction than Wichita kids like you. But YOU CAN LEARN. TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY. ABSORB WHAT YOU CAN.
I taught my student math. Early in 7th grade he scored a 13 on an ACT practice test soon after I started teaching him prealgebra. A 10 can be scored by first graders who are coached to fill in an answer oval to every question. A 13 was within the 5-95th percentil statistical boundary for chance-based responses. By the end of the year he scored an 18, 88th percentile for gifted 6th graders, and beyond chance-based responses. The next year, midway through 7th grade, he scored a 26–99th percentile for gifted 7th graders.
What I would really like to see is a reconsideration of the USD-259-scuttled math-and-science academy proposal for gifted middle and high school students. Some might call this “elitist”. But the truth is, you either have to empower your most gifted kids, so they can become leaders, or forgo leadership. Do you think that the people behind the arena constitute leadership? “Our fathers built the Kansas Coliseum 30 years ago, we, their children can do it again. We’re really good at wheel-spinning.”
Non-remedial summer courses and exploratory-enrichment camps are a great idea. The coasts have been offering these for years. What’s wrong with post-7th and 8th graders who have completed algebra I taking geometry before 8th and 9th grade? WSU teaches Java to college juniors. What’s wrong with teaching this to really gifted high schoolers, like schools in JoCo and a lot of other places do?
Costs? Stop thinking about K-12 education as an “overhead expense”. Start thinking about it as a CAPITAL INVESTMENT IN WICHITA’S FUTURE. You have to invest money, to make money. The best investment’s a community can make is in intellectual capital development. If you want to think like hicks, then watch your community implode. But it’s not your fault. You were just shortsighted, and not interested in the longterm future, and nobody can blame you for the ultimate community downfall you imposed. You got what you wanted for YOURSELF. The next generation ISN’T YOUR PROBLEM
We need to remove the government from the schools. Give the parents the responsibility to raise their children. Let them find something that works for them and their lives. These arguments over policy go nowhere. You have to eliminate the bureaucratic giant.
If some want their kids in year-round schools and some don’t, give them the option to choose.
Too many parents take NO responsibility. Trying to give them more is worthless.
amen RD!
I think the little jerks need to be in school the year around. Now if we had competent teachers like we had in the 40s and 50s (which we sure the hell don’t) Then summer fun would be okay. What you have now is overpaid teachers and underachieving kids
As someone who still remembers what school was, i think a better plan would be to go to 4 day school days (and 4 day work days for that matter) and have a full 8 hour school day. have the kids go to school as long as the parents work. Also, have longer spring, christmas, thanksgiving, mormerial, labor day and other holiday breaks but also go farther into the summer. Still have a summer break for vacations, etc.. but maybe have it where, May in class, June off, July back in class Aug off and back in Sept. I’d like that…
Politicalmom, is it the teacher’s/school’s fault that they are, as you say, little jerks? Or do the little jerks and their parents also bear some responsibility as well?
I wonder how many schools in Kansas still don’t have air conditioning. Aren’t there still some school buildings in Wichita without AC?
Political Mom–
Is that you, Cindy.
The thing that people are forgetting in this little discussion is this–if teachers have to work 12 months a year instead of 9, then you have to pay them their salary plus another 25 percent.
The teachers would probably be for it, but where’s the extra money coming from?
GMC, you were a teacher too?!
How do you square your low-tax, small government stance with the fact that you work for the government and you get paid by taxpayers?
I guess we know who’ll be passing up their next raise, right Jimmy?
BTW, how do you square your low-tax small government stance with Borrow and Spend Bush?
RD,
A lot of parents ARE irresponsible. And how were they educated? Through a public school system that was designed to MINIMIZE parental involvement, under the industrial age ideology that parental ideas and upbringing methods were “obsolete”. We are into the 5th generation of kids being taken from their parents, and becoming non-contributors to families. Go back before industrialization and forced mass public education. Children were productive.
I believe in publicly funded education. That’s not the same as compulsory 7-hour/5-day-a-week forced publicly funded education. We have a really counterproductive system. As a U.S. Department of Education study determined, only 1 out of 5 students find school “interesting” and/or “engaging”. It isn’t the teachers’ fault. They were recruited to do Industrial Age mass-processing.
Our teachers, on average, aren’t as good as those before the 1980’s. That’s because smart women like my grandmother and great aunt had extremely limited career options. These options have blossomed in the past 30 years. So smart women don’t have to settle for teaching or secretarial careers anymore. We have some imaginative, creative, child-connecting teachers, but the industrial-age system torpedoes their efforts.
At home, kids can now access computer resources and learn things quickly that their teachers do not know. But the poor, who cannot afford technology, are denied access. Public schools are supposed to prepare kids for the FUTURE, but have been extremely tardy in obtaining and utilizing modern technology. They are a relic of the past. Achieving transformation isn’t going to be assignable to today’s public education establishment. I wish this were different, but when you’re 50 years old, and counting down the days to retirement, you aren’t able to be a change-agent.
The general public has no idea how much a 21st century educational investment costs. It costs much more in money, it costs much more in terms of teachers’ staying after school and working summers than our society is willing to account and pay. It costs much more for highly-able math and science teachers than social studies and language arts teachers who control teachers contracts, under collective bargaining, are willing to allow OTHERS to be compensated.
NCD:
Your point would be? What, exactly?
“How do you square your low-tax, small government stance with the fact that you work for the government and you get paid by taxpayers?”
Just how are they incongruous? ( hope that’s not too big a word for ya’).
Stik to the point NCD. And why the new nick? Too gutless to write under the old one?
The government is requiring more and more of teachers these days. Teachers are having to spend more time away from the classroom to attend seminars and classes to keep up with their own education hours. Many teachers are spending their summers taking classes, not relaxing. Not only that, but I would dare any of you folks who have never dealth with children day-in and day-out to take a teaching position in a 12 month a year public school program at the current teacher salary. It is exhausting to be with children every day.
GMC–
That wasn’t even a good try at a response.
You want lower taxes, yet you suck at the government teat.
The only way we can have lower taxes is to pay you less.
I say, GIVE THE MAN WHAT HE SAYS HE WANTS. Cut taxes radically and pay him radically less . . .
Thanks in advance for your agreement.
And by the way smart guy, I’ll look up “incongruous” if you look up “antidisestablishmentarianism.”
“Aren’t there still some school buildings in Wichita without AC?”
All Wichita, usd 259 schools have air conditioning. That’s why school is starting on 08-15-06 and the teachers have to be back 08-08. All the teacher’s I’ve talked to are just thrilled with the early start. :-)
TooGutless:
Don’t have to look it up. Refers to England and opposition to ending the establishment of the Anglican church as official church. Can’t remember the exact time frame, I’m guessing 18th/19th century, given that the Anglican church was established, if I remember, with old Henry VIII.
Nice try, though. Is there a point anywhere in there? I thought not.
A guy with a JD can use a dictionary! Who says our education system is in decline.
Here’s the point you disingenuously and willfully ignored–
“You want lower taxes, yet you suck at the government teat.
The only way we can have lower taxes is to pay you less.”
Are you willing to take a pay cut or have your job eliminated completely so that taxes can be cut?
And after you FINALLY deal with that simple question, you can work on the definition of “fauccinauccinihilipifilication.”
Although I can’t vouch for the spelling . . . working from memory.
Children today are properly educated for their role: to be mindless mass consumers.
Little Jimmy can’t read or think for himself, but that doesn’t matter. He can still spend a dollar like a good red-blooded American, and that’s the most important thing.
TooGutless:(and how appropriate a nick)
1) Just how are the two incongruous? You presume they are, why?2) Didn’t need the dictionary, thanks.3) And finally. This thread was about the possibility of year-round school. Any point at all that you’d like to add? No? I thought not.
Look. I don’t know how this became personal, and obviously you know who I am, but the reverse is not true. True to your chosen nick, you continue to hide. That’s your prerogative, of course. Perhaps I could find out, but I frankly don’t care. I am not going to continue to play tit-for-tat. If you got something to add, let’s hear it.
I don’t write here a lot. I don’t write unless I have a perspective or or information to add that may be helpful. I don’t make personal attacks (if I have, backhandedly, I’ll apologize right now). This blog is not about how “witty” one can be, or how cutting a turn of phrase one can write. It’s about sharing perspectives. Too many here turn it into their personal dueling space, or worse, and delight in driving off those who disagree with them with invective. I won’t play that game.
TooGutless: unless you have something substantive to add, we’re done.
” I don’t make personal attacks (if I have, backhandedly, I’ll apologize right now).
What a LOAD of crap!!!!!
Just because you use your supposedly oh so civil lawyer talk to insult and degrade people doesnt make it any less insulting and degrading. Dont make me do a bone dig!!!
Typical conservative. When he gets his ass kicked on logic, reason, and facts, he whines about civility.
And I see he STILL hasnt answered the question. Just above the fray, dontch know. SO much better than the mere mortals who populate this blog.
“This blog is not about how “witty” one can be, or how cutting a turn of phrase one can write.”
Yes gmc. We notice how you are left behind in the wit and language department. We see how you are unable to participate when humor, reader interest and wit are involved.
Unless you can issue some dry and uninteresting pontificate from the bar, you cant play.
Must be sad to be so jealous and sad….
Yeah, and I also have noticed the feeding at the public trough all the while pretending to be a personal responsibility conservative.
The only conservative traits I notice are hypocrisy and superiority complexes.
Oh yeah, and the whining….
Oh yeah, and the whining….
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | July 21, 2006 at 09:46 AM
ksfarmgrrl, it might appear that you are comming down with one of those damn conservative traits.You been around them too long. :)
Okay, GMC.
I didn’t think the question was all that hard.
Since salaries are the biggest component of local government spending, the only way to cut spending is to cut salaries.
As a government employee, are you willing to have your salary cut so that taxpayers can save money?
Since you won’t answer the question, I can only conclude that the answer is “no,” yet you still want taxes cut.
That’s the incongruity, or as KSGrrl rightly points out, the hypocrisy.
Hank Price is the same way. Here’s another guy drawing a salary (pension) from the government, but listen to him bitch and moan about taxes.
I don’t know how you can argue that taxes should be lowered when you directly benefit from taxation.
NO RA, you forget.
I am a hateful old woman and a godless liberal bitch.
With the whiner label, you must be thinking of someone else….
KFG-With “I am a hateful old woman and a godless liberal bitch.” as a start, if you add some more lyrics, I’ll supply the melody and we might have something!Maybe add a pickup and a dog, etc.
It might work. I’ve heard worse.G
“I was drunk, the day my mom, got out of prison…
And I’ll hang around as long as you will let me….”
David Allen Coe and the perfect country western song.
Now if I just had his money….
“I am a hateful old woman and a godless liberal bitch.”And I drive a pickup with a trailer hitch.My girlfriend has a dog named Beezlywho’s really cute and awfully cuddlyNow Beez howls when we put on her collarwhen we drive the pickup to my restaurant in Collyer.
Ok – we’ve got the first verse down now who’s gonna write the chorus and second verse?
How about “Glib Blues” ( godless liberal bitch) as a title?
Make that “The Glib Mother Trucking Blues”
OMG, I am HOWLING here.
hee hee hee hee
You guys are too funny.
No wonder the humor and wit confounds some here.
“I am a hateful old woman and a godless liberal bitch.”And I drive a pickup with a trailer hitch.My girlfriend has a dog named Beezlywho’s really cute and awfully cuddlyNow Beez howls when we put on her collarwhen we drive the pickup to my restaurant in Collyer.
I got the glib bluesall the way down to my shoesI got the glib bluesthe Glib Mother Trucking blues
I live in western kansaswhere I can rock and roll and shake my assI work hard all dayplowing fields and makin’ hayoh the plight of the farmer is realmakes it really hard to deal
I got the glib bluesall the way down to my shoesI got the glib bluesthe Glib Mother Trucking blues
I spout my political viewsto all that will hear the newsI write on blogsI’ve been known to raise hogsI blast on conservative nutsthey need to go live in huts
I got the glib bluesall the way down to my shoesI got the glib bluesthe Glib Mother Trucking blues
This begs for some slide-guitar work! I don’t think I could drink enough to make that sound right. Hmmmmmmm.This sort of like watching the start of a Frankenstein movie!
Gster – I’m sure Walker, Rage or CF could help you out :)
I’m no lyricist so change whatever needs it. Kinda written on the fly.
hey XXX you gonna sing this one?
My straight-laced sister, Sadie,Became a Jesus freak.My red-neck brother, Bobbysold some crank; he’s up the creek.If ma an pa were with usThey’d bitch slap them two ’round.But I got this lonely feelin’I'm mother truckin glib blues bound.
uh peoples… I think we’ve totally blogarted this thread. sorry.
I got them glib blues workin’ people,from my head down to my shoesI got them glib blues working people,Just what I got to loose?With them glib blues working people,I got the right to pick and choose.
Julie,And your point is?
a month or so ago I blasted raptor for blogarting a thread over to motorcycles and here I do it. I don’t want people to think that it’s do as I say not as I do. (even though it is rather fun).
Walker – you’re a much better lyricist than I. I am almost embarrassed for my meager attempt.
Julie,Loced your lyrics. They inspired me. I am a blues lover, so pickin up where you left off was easy:-)
awwww thanks darlin’
Fergot the last line:I got them glib blues workin’ people,from my head down to my shoesI got them glib blues working people,Just what I got to loose?With them glib blues working people,There ain’t no more good news,With them glib blues working people,I got the right to pick and choose.
KGF:
You’ve proven my point. Again.
And TooGutless (unless one and the same): I’ve said my piece. We’re done.
I’m surprised that you’d walk away from this one, GMC.
You could have argued that taxes are rising faster than your wages, which is why you want them lowered.
Or you could have argued that while taxes are necessary and do a lot of good, there is also a lot of waste inherent in government programs and by eliminating it, one could lower taxes.
But both of those answers require that you acknowledge that government does some good and so all taxes aren’t wasted.
Apparently that’s too much for a right-winger to acknowledge.
You can’t bring yourself to admit that government is necessary and largely good EVEN WHEN YOU WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT.
Hey, maybe that’s what’s wrong with out government? Too many people working in it that don’t believe in it . . .
I ALWAYS get to the good ones late.
Dammit.
This thread was dying anyway……blogart away.
A song about a politically active lesbian organic farmer running a cafe in a converted convent BEGS to be written! I may work on that myself.
correction: our government . . . typing too fast
TruMad:
Simple. This thread is about whether year-round school is a good idea. I posted on that issue. I won’t get into a pissing contest or sidetracked on other issues, certainly not with KFG. She’s the classic (I’ll quote myself) “Too many here turn it into their personal dueling space, or worse, and delight in driving off those who disagree with them with invective.”
I won’t bite on that one. As far as I’m concerned, KFG’s in the same category as Ian and Ed. Worthy to be ignored.
Just when ya think I can’t surprise ya I will.
I’m gonna defend GMC…..just a little bit.
I THINK GMC has in the past said that the bush tax cuts have to go. I THINK I remember that. I believe he said they were not realistic given the debt and spending.
But the ballad of a KSFarmgrrl is more interesting anyway!
OK
Posts clearly crossed there.
Sigh………well I DID try!
GMC would I make that list too? (ian, ed , kfg)
You know. The list of posters who write better and more interesting than you?
Thank you for admitting defeat, GMC.
It takes a big man to say, “I don’t know.”
TruMad:
You assume far too much. I say what I mean, and mean what I say.
Your writing it does not make it so.
You win.
Anybody reading the thread can see that . . .
TM:
You miss my point. It’s not about “winning.” It never was.
That’s part of the problem here; too many are so wrapped up in “proving” their point, in “winning,” in defending their self-appointed reputation that they lose sight of simply exchanging ideas.
Okay, here’s my IDEA:
You won’t answer the question because you can’t.
Just my idea and I’m exchanging it with you.
TruMad:
As my kids would say: whatever . . .