The horrible murder of 14-year-old Chelsea Brooks of Wichita has renewed debate about the killing of fetuses. Brooks was nine months pregnant when murdered, but the Kansas law, as written, does not allow the filing of an additional murder charge for the death of the fetus.
Some pro-lifers are pointing out that when Gov. Kathleen Sebelius was a state lawmaker, she opposed changing the law to give a fetus protection under criminal statutes. “I have real serious problems with that,” Sebelius said in 1989. “I think for me and a lot of other people there are certain inalienable rights established for a person, but those are not applied in utero.”
Concern about the law change has been that it would become a tool to restrict or outlaw abortion. However, states such as California allow for such murder charges in certain circumstances — as was filed in the high-profile Scott Peterson case — without curtailing the right to an abortion.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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134 Comments
There isn’t any question in my mind but that a murder of a mother who is 9 months pregnant should result in double-murder charges. The problem with possible legislation is that the anti-choice zealots will convert an effort to create a new law to justify double-muder charges into a back-door attempt to repeal Roe v. Wade. Remember this prediction next legislative session.
A viability judgment would have to be made as to the difference between abortion and a judgment in a murder charge. The last time I know of a push to make the distinction it was pro-life forces that said it had to be either or. Either the fetus is a human being in the womb or not that there could be no exception.
While my stand on abortion is known by those who post here, I would have no problem with a child in the womb, during the last trimester, being given the same rights as the mother. It should be a double murder. At nine months, she was hardly going to abort the child.
I would very much like to agree that it’s murder, but the attempts to make it so are disingenuous efforts by anti-choice groups to force a legal way to ban all abortions. It’s too bad that these dishonest people make such a law a bad idea!
At the risk of incurring wrath of many, what is the difference if the perpetrator is convicted of one murder or two? How many times can the death penalty be carried out on the murderer? Is one life sentence without parole any different than two?
People are claiming they want “justice” for the unborn child. Will that “justice” bring the child back? Of course not. Will filing additional charges in court make any difference in the guilt or innocence of the accused?
Don’t get me wrong..it was a horrid crime, and those responsible should be punished harshly. I just don’t see how filing additional (duplicate) charges metes out any more ‘justice’.
I understand that murder of a viable fetus in utero would be a crime in all but 13 states. I don’t think that this has had any effect on abortion rights.
Raptor, I agree that this controversy could be avoided in this instance, but what about cases where the mother lives but the child dies? Or instances where the in utero child is the intended victim?
Excellent point, Outlander…to be honest, I never considered that one. Thanks for your input.
In an abortion, the mother has the right to terminate the pregnancy, not anybody else.
In this case, somebody terminated her and her pregnancy without choice, so that should count as a double murder.
But I think this case is going to turn into another Carr Brothers type case.
Out,One of the points made in the original Roe v. Wade decision was that states didn’t have such laws. The efforts of the anti-choice forces to enact laws on fetal murder are simply an attempt to get around that argument, and their play on our emotions about cases such as this one is dishonest, to say the least.
I think this discussion has a valid point – one or two counts of murder. Outlander raises a very good point which brings my point to be raised – the issue that the father of the baby didn’t want the child and pressured the victim for silence on his part so that he wouldn’t be responsible for his actions. What a sad, sad thing. He could be man enough to procreate but not man enough to stand up and face the consequences of impregnating a 14 year old (wasn’t she 13 when she was impregnanted?) and then telling her to keep it quiet so he wouldn’t face charges for statutory rape or child support (why else would he want to her to keep quiet).
I don’t know how her family is keeping it together – my heart is breaking for them.
Bottom line is that if this is murder than so is abortion…..PLAIN AND SIMPLE any attempt to ditinguish the two is COMPLETELY dishonestor vice versa.
Lets also dont forget that if phil kline was allowed access to see who raped this girl in the first place she would be alive today.
That is a pretty unsubstantiated assertion dr. Your opinion about abortion and murder being indistinguishable is why any change in the law will be difficult to achieve. It is just asinine to say that girl would have been alive today if AG Kline had access to those records. Kline was only on a fishing expedition as part of an agenda to restrict the choices women have in regards to reproductive choices.
FYI, there is more to this story than you know. This is not the venue to discuss the particulars of an on-going murder investigation.
No….the life that was taken at the hand of a murder is ABSOLUTELY NO diffrent than the life that was taken by an aborter….It IS that simple
No, you have assumed klines intentions wrongly. I guarntee Kline was 110% more intrested in prosocution of MEN who are getting 14yr old pregnant than he was about restricting abortions. Those who oppsed kline can now see the result of thier opposition
An “aborter”? dr., you sure show your political affiliation. I have not assumed Kline’s intentions wrong. FYI, it was a Judge who ruled against Kline and his witch hunt. There was no “law” that was opposed in the Legislature that could have prevented this tragedy. How could Kline have prevented this crime from happening? The murdered girl would not give up the name of the father of her baby, how could have Kline helped?
yes it was a judge. but the opinion, like yours, is what i am addressing. Kline argued, and righfully so that medical proffessionals must report underage rape just as they would be compelled to report gunshot wounds. The suspect was know to the family and the courts as established by the restraining order….However there was no report of a rape to the authorities if her doctor was required to report the name of the person who raped her. This murder would have been in jail! Kline was fighting to protect people like this girl. While you people were just fighting for your agenda of being able to have abortions without shame…..This story is a showcase of what that opposition enables
So dr/ruby/scott/gertie/barb/sotheysaid/ whatever nic it is today.
“Lets also dont forget that if phil kline was allowed access to see who raped this girl in the first place she would be alive today.”
DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!
Williams isnt the only one who gets the bell for totally bone head posts.
That may possibly be one of the five dumbest things ever said on this blog. Sounds suspiciously proll like. Same crew that sends ruby to talk about the courts and sts to talk about public schools. Now dr will be the designated wingnut spokesman for klein?
heheh.
If this is how republicans like ruby/sts/dr/lmnop etc. plan to keep phill “I’m obsessed with teen sex” klein in office, Morrison better get his swearing-in suit to the cleaners.
He’s gonna need it in January.
While you people were just fighting for your agenda of being able to have abortions without shame…..This story is a showcase of what that opposition enables
DING DING DING DING DING
Ok dr, now you have TWO entries in the top five WE blog “wall of shame/stupid human posts”.
Wanna go for a trifecta?
And no comments from the right side of the blog about how dr is using this girl and her family’s tragedy and pain for political gain?
No comments about dr waving the bloody shirt of abortion regardless of how much grief she causes the family of this victim?
No calls for civility and not allowing the kansas taliban to use this poor girl’s death as a political football?
Heheh. didnt think so.
Those calls for civility dont apply to the righties. Those calls for leaving a grieving family in peace only apply to liberals. Those calls for some things being above the political fray, like a family losing a child, just apply to the left.
The republican religious right here can say ANYTHING they want, since clearly god is on their side. THEY, like coulter and dr, can say the most vile things with impunity.
The rest of us, I guess, just need to shut our blasphemeing mouths. Clearly, WHO uses tragedy for political gain depends on the ownership of the oxen being gored.
And the price boys still defend ann coulter and her incivility. I wonder how long it will take for them to defend dr.
Could the real deal here BE more clear? I think not. WE hypocricy at it’s finest. And it is interesting to note who generates most of the double standards for civility.
God’s chosen bloggers.
dr,”Lets also dont forget that if phil kline was allowed access to see who raped this girl in the first place she would be alive today.”"I guarntee Kline was 110% more intrested in prosocution of MEN who are getting 14yr old pregnant than he was about restricting abortions.”If Kline had records that showed that Chelsea Brooks was impregnated as a minor under the age of 16 what would that do to save her life?Would they be like so many other state records and be kept in a box somewhere in archives?Would she have even given the fathers name? It is not required to list the father of baby at doctors offices. It is not required for the fathers name to be on the birth certificate.I’m pretty sure that all Kline would get would be that a 14 year old in Sedgwick county was impregnated and carrying the baby to full term and would be raising the baby after the birth. What can he do with that?
political gain?….There is only one side here that is actually advocating for the safety of young girls here…and YOU call that politics. You simply are promoting abortion on demand in secret even at the expense of alowing rapists to continue there predatory ways! you see tragedy and want to nothing, and be cause we see tragedy….see the cause and effect and attempt to prevent such tragedies YOU call that politics…..there is only one side playing politics and that is you ksfarmgirl! It is not politics to protect young girls from predators.
At 9 months pregnant that child is viable. Also at 9 months it is obvious that a woman is pregnant(or at least most) and when women are killed the murderer is making a decision to take both lives and therefore should be held accountable. Even if a woman is 3 months pregnant there is nothing to say (except test results from a dr) that the mother would not deliver a viable child, barring complications late in the pregnancy, and therefore I feel it should be considered murder Yes, a person being convicted of killing an unborn child will not bring that child back but a conviction for killing the mother won’t bring her back either. I’d to ask raptor what the difference is. Even though some of us don’t agree with it abortion is legal, murder is not. Those that murder do not always get the death penalty and at some point may very well get out. If convicted with the murder of a mother and an unborn child that could seal the persons fate with life without parole or the death penalty
julie – those documents dont require that info, but that irrelavant……The doctors would have been forced to report it as a rape. If a girl is raped the police would have investigated it, they would have seen that this guy not only raped her but had a restraining order and he would have been in jail.
This is still the USA and everyone accused of a crime is innocent until proven guilty, even when the evidence points to their guilt.
“You simply are promoting abortion on demand in secret even at the expense of alowing rapists to continue there predatory ways! you see tragedy and want to nothing, and be cause we see tragedy.”
DING DING DING DING DING
Show me where I said that. Show me where ANYONE said that here.
Please show us dr, before I call you what I call nathan when he pulls this crap. A liar.
Please post the backup for that OUTRAGEOUS statemen. Or hang your head in shame and dishonor.
NO LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
amy-
See the abortion advocates have fought hard to make sure that the unborn is NOT a life. viable or not. all life is viable until we intervene
You cannot murder unless you take a life.
This grand contridiction cannot be explained away or rationalized, the abortionists know this in thier hearts but refuse to acknowledge this.
Again…..its either murder or abortion, its either legal or not to kill a fetus….viable life
Amy,
Well said.
Joe,You’re right-on (I’m not sure what you mean about the Carr case comparison, however).
A girl as young as Chelsea is not legally recognized as having the ability to consent to sex. So, the doctors treating her had to report her situation. That law is on the books now, so we can assume unless her treaters decided to violate the law and suffer the possible sanctions for that, that her case was reported to SRS.
Given the above, what is it that dr and others are asking for? And how is it that what you’re asking for would have prevented this tragedy?
My suspicion is that you are blowing smoke for political reasons and could care less about this poor girl and her family.
dr… we are still waiting on you to prove your statement.
You wouldnt be like nathan and ignore questions or refuse to prove your assertations?
And still no comments from the right about dr/amy/scott/gertie/ruby/lmnop waving the bloody shirt of abortion while this girl’s family copes with the loss of their daughter?
No calls for giving the girl’s parents some space and some peace to deal with this? No calls from the right on civility?
The sound of one hand clapping is hurting my ears. Silence on that, eh?
dr,I still don’t understand why the doctor would be reporting it as “rape”. To me “rape” is nonconsensual sexual intercourse. From all accounts that I’ve read that have been reported in the media this was not “rape” but consensual sex. This does qualify for “statutory rape” which is sexual intercouse involving a minor that is younger than the age of consent.If the doctor does report this as a rape and a police case is made doesn’t mean that Chelsea would have told the police that Ray-Ray was the baby’s daddy.If the doctor did report this as a rape it would have most likely been at the date of pregancy confirmation before the PFA (protection from abuse order commonly referred to as a restraining order) was filed. The PFA does not state that Ray-Ray was the baby’s daddy it states that he has been having a sexual relationship with a minor. Why didn’t the police pick up on that? It states in black and white that a crime was occuring.
heheh DD, well ya know, there was also a law on the books against gay marriage, but that wasnt good enough. Nothing but a constitutional amendment would satisfy the taliban beast. And make no mistake, the beast is still hungry and will be demanding more food from the republican right.
dr/amy/ruby/lmnop are always worried that those act-ee-vist judges will declare their theocracy unconstitutional. So they amend the constitution. And in that case, who needs law? Who needs justice? Who need courts for checks and balances?
When ya got tim huelskamp on your side, how could god not smite the enemy? heheheheh.
kefarmgirl-ohoh did I get the trifecta?
It is common sense! Its cause and effect!
You want to make sure that doctors do not have to report underage sex, allowing people to take advantage of girls, and fail to recongnize that this allows rapists to victimize over and over again, all in the name of privicy by the pro-choice crowd.
That resulted in this case in a death of a young girl….cause and effect
I’m really glad we have NoJoCo here to make the brilliant “I agree too” statements that we couldn’t live without.
Thanks for your profound sense of the obvious . . .
Don’t refer to this psychopath as “Ray-Ray”. This was his name of choice. I had this kid as a student many years back. He was a manipulative punk back then. This whole thing just makes me sick. I wish there was something I realistically could have done.
Wow! Well said, Steve.
I agree . . . duh
It looks like the police or possibly SRS dropped the ball in reporting or prosecuting the statutory rape.
I’m glad Steve is here to make a complete ass of him/herself.
Was it one murder or two?
Even asking this question is making this girl the latest incarnation of the political football that is abortion.
I call it insensitive and cruel to make this families tragedy into a forum for a debate. Phil Brownlee should be ashamed of himself for doing so.
jr is right.
dr,”See the abortion advocates have fought hard to make sure that the unborn is NOT a life. viable or not. all life is viable until we intervene”I know you stated the above to Amy but I’m gonna bite on this one especially the “all life is viable until we intervene”It is not always outside intervention that causes loss of fetus, many miscarrages occur in the first trimester for unknown reasons and the fetus is in no way capable of surviving outside the womb (natural or artificial) at this point. Infact a pregnancy is not condered ‘viable’ until 24 weeks gestation. This is the earliest that a fetus has a good chance at survival outside the womb with intensive care at a hospital. Most doctors do not like to induce labor until at least 35-37 weeks gestation to make sure that the fetus is optimally developed – of course most would rather wait until the woman naturally goes into labor but sometimes they must induce for health reasons.
Apophis,”Don’t refer to this psychopath as “Ray-Ray”. This was his name of choice. I had this kid as a student many years back. He was a manipulative punk back then.”
I refer to him as such to point out the punk that he continues to be. I guess I should say “ray-ray (eyeroll)…”
Phillip’s question is an appropriate one that needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, we usually need something like this case to start the debate.
This case is no different from the Lacy Peterson & baby murders. Kansas needs a law that charges the person(s)who killed Chelsea Brook’s & her baby with two counts of capital murder.
I’m okay with that Julie.
dr, we are still waiting on you to post the comments we made that support your nutso comment here:
“”You simply are promoting abortion on demand in secret even at the expense of alowing rapists to continue there predatory ways! you see tragedy and want to nothing, and be cause we see tragedy.”
until you apologize or prove it, you have no credibility here. We have enough people telling lies, distorting the truth, and acting as professional prolls.
dr (or whoever you really are) you said:
“You want to make sure that doctors do not have to report underage sex,”
False. Show me where I said that.
Docs are already required to report statutory rape. I support that. I do not support phil klein getting free kiddie porn by having all the reports, for abortions, not live births, sent to him. heheh
“allowing people to take advantage of girls”
DING DING DING. False again. Show me where I support that.
If phill is so concerned about protecting girls, why is he not demanding the records for LIVE births to underage mothers? Why only the records of those seeking abortion? IF chelsea had given live birth, you wouldnt be saying a damn thing.
“and fail to recongnize that this allows rapists to victimize over and over again, all in the name of privicy by the pro-choice crowd”
Uh, I hardly see how respecting the privacy of a family dealing with pregnancy is allowing rapists to vicitmize their prey over and over again. Couldnt you stop that victimization by also investigating underage pregnancies carried to full term?
If this poor girl had not been murdered, and if she had carried the baby full term to a live birth, folks like dr/nojoco/ruby/gertie/amy and all the other one hit wonders would not have said a damn word. Tell us again how this is NOT about abortion.
YOU are the ones who do not care about the suffering of young girls and their families. YOU are the ones who dont give a damn about catching the perps on LIVE BIRTHS.
Live birth from statutory rape = good
abortion from statutory rape = bad
and what is constant here? Statutory rape.
I could say that since you only want to investigate the records of abortion, you must hate only those rapists.
Why do you support the rapists who’s victims carry the pregnancy to full term? heheheh
Why do you hate underage victims of statutory rape, since you only want to investigate PART of the crimes, not all of them?
Live birth at fourteen = good for bonbon huy and kay o’connor.
They voted for the age of consent for marriage to be kept at, guess what? FOURTEEN. The same age as chelsea.
In their world, no matter what color the sky, the perp could have just married the victim, forced her to give live birth, and then gotten away “scot” free.
You know who you are. Why do you support such outrageous acts if they result in live birth?
For bonnie huy and kay o’connor:
unmarried sex at fourteen = bad
marriage with sex at fourteen = good
If bon bon and kay had their way, all this ray ray guy would have had to do to cover his tracks was marry the poor girl.
But please keep spinning. We are amused and encourage you to try again.
And you are STILL waving the bloody shirt here during a family’s time of tragedy at the death of their child.
Todd thank you.
NoJoCo?
Just how large an issue is women who are 9 months pregnant being murdered? Big enough that Phil thought it needed addressed? Oh I give you his manner of asking the question was clever. But he KNEW when he asked it that women 9 months pregnant being murdered is so rare as to not warrant debate.
Isn’t there already law on the books to address a crime as particularly heinous? You know, aggravating circumstances and such?
No Phil KNEW when he asked this question that it was gonna be an abortion debate. And as we see, he was right.
Shame on you Phil Brownlee for exploiting this girls death and her families tragedy as a forum for a debate.
I’ll not participate in it further.
JR??
“…states such as California allow for such murder charges in certain circumstances — as was filed in the high-profile Scott Peterson case — without curtailing the right to an abortion.”
The same law needs to exist in Kansas.
Fair enough NoJoCoBUT,Couldn’t Phil have given us THAT debate without using this poor girls NAME and PICTURE?? I know it is topical. But I call that exploitive. I reaffirm that he anticipated where this thread would go.
Do we all remember a thread recently where there was a full blown war about a familys tragedy and their right to privacy? I call this no different.
Dr it was people like you that cause the push for a law to included the unborn as a murder to fail. Just the same rhetoric you spew is what kept it from happening over twenty years ago. The same short sightedness that you are saying today stopped it! And yet your pride abounds, not seeing fit to be satisfied back then with a shot fired into one foot. You come back to aim at the other foot, it is not about the lost of two innocent lives that you care about! To you this is nothing more then to use their loss as a tool, to gain some ground and point at the blood as vindication of your self centered cause. What no brain dead women to rape again?Now you wish to not only rape a 14 y.o. girl again but the unborn child she carried. You and your kind chained children in the hot sun to the gate to stop other from getting an abortion. Claiming it was to protect children!
As to Kline, you would have better luck trying to convince people that black is white then to convince anyone that Kline was doing nothing but fulfilling a his own goals and your too. Where if Kline is so noble where was his push to lurk in the live birth records? For all I know you do not believe a word you have said. It could be your intent to get under everyone’s skin. But using this horrible crime to do so does nothing but make you smaller and more sick then the bastard that killed her and the baby. You maybe setting there jacking off while reading the responses, having not found any chickens to fuck! You are no different than the self righteous that use God to justify your pet projects, knowing nothing of God! Trolls like you bring nothing to this world and take only your pleasure from the sadness of others.You speak of shame at having an abortion, what do you know of such shame…You in fact have no shame!
I don’t know why anybody is even arguing with this dr moron, His only purpose is to incite an argument about abortion. The prolifers, of which I am one, but not affiliated with their bs in any way, are tring to use this as an attempt to curtail abortions.
Such is not the case with this double murder. The mother obviously wanted the child, ergo, at nine months the child was probably a viable child able to live outside the mothers womb. It’s a double murder. Abortion has nothing to do with it.
Agreed Walker,
I think this case is relevant as NoJo does.I think it would be a kindness if the picture and name could be removed from this thread.
A reason why discussing laws as to this that I can think of goes to punishment.
Is it not the case that in Ks the death penalty is only applicable in the case of more than one murder? If so then law to this unusual and brutal crime is very relevant.
It is pretty simple here to see that there are many on this bog that do not see life as sacred. You are so worried about yourself that you are missing the entire issue.
We are talking about the life of two children a 14 year old girl and a 9 month full term baby. It is the mother of the 14 year old and the grandmother of the full term baby that is upset and concerned that two murder charges cannot be filled in this case. She is not a political activist and as far as I know has not been politically engaged in the past. She is not looking at this as politics. She spoke from the heart this weekend in her statement and all of you are making a mockery of it. Have some compassion for her loss. She lost a daughter and a grand-daughter all at once. Just ask yourself how you would feel?
You cannot see beyond your own belief about abortion to see what is actually being discussed here. There has been legislation presented in Kansas that would have allowed for two charges to be filed. But we can all thank Dr. Tiller, his purchased legislators and Governor for seeing that Kansas is only one of a handful of states that do not allow charges to be filed for the death of the 9 month full term baby.
The legislation was very clear about what charges could be filled and would not have dealt with medical procedures etc. It would have only dealt with the act of a crime. Plain and simple. But because Tiller and his crew are so concerned about protecting their belief they have blocked this legislation year after year after year.
If the legislation would stop abortions as some say then why hasn’t it stopped abortions in other states? Not one of the other states with such legislation has stopped abortion in their states. Why? Because it is not about abortion! But we would not want to see that little fact get in the way of the discussion. No so many of you have to protect abortion to the point that blinders are put on to any legislation that deals with unborn babies.
There was such an out cry last year when a puppy was murdered in a very grotesque way and the people wanted the ability to see someone charged with a felony. The legislature responded and passed “Magnum / Scruffy Law”. Where is the out cry for this baby and her family? Is the baby not as important as a dog? Is that what Kansas is going to tell the Brooks family? Could you really look the mother in the eye and say don’t do anything because your grand-daughter was not real, dogs are more important and we must make sure that Dr. Tiller and business’s like his are protected? Can you really do that? I hope we can do better.
Our own Governor who calls herself Catholic has opposed this legislation ever since she was a legislator and as a trial lawyer before that. She has accepted thousands upon thousands of dollars from Dr. Tiller for her campaigns and she has worked to block legislation that would have allowed two charges to be filed in this case. She has worked with pro-choice legislators and Dr. Tiller the past four years to see that this legislation was not sent to her desk. That is not surprising when you read her quote from the 1989 Supreme Court decision.
Show respect for the Brooks family. It is their decision to make if they wish to make a positive come out of their daughter and grand-daughters deaths. That positive being that Kansas should join the majority of the other states and make the criminal killing of an unborn baby a homicide case.
It is time for Kansas to make the criminal killing of an unborn baby a chargeable offense and put into place in the name of Brooks’s grand-daughter the “Alexa Law”.
Now is your chance Kansas. Show that we support babies as much as we do dogs. Support and encourage the passage of “Alexi’s LAW”!!!!!
I call PROLL on that one. Sts, the more you post, the more you let us see how you use the same words, phrasing, etc. of ruby/scott/gertie/barb/etc. lmnop.
“There has been legislation presented in Kansas that would have allowed for two charges to be filed. But we can all thank Dr. Tiller, his purchased legislators and Governor for seeing that Kansas …”
Right on cue, with the blame for the governor. Real slow now. Since republicans control the kansas house AND the kansas senate, it is the governor’s fault when legislation doesnt pass? Exactly how MANY republican legislators had to be purchased to defeat that legislation?
ROFLMQAO!!!!!!!!! Nice try. Seems like you tried this blame the dems with school finance and the nuss fuss.
The republicans control the legislature, yet it is the mean old gov and the evil tiller at fault?
hehehe. rolling on the floor with tears.
You just dont get it do you? Those old dogs dont hunt. Not on this blog, and not amongst the voters in this state. But we are amused, and we do encourage you to try again.
If you and yours were not so lame, and so invested in the second coming of wingnuttia, you might just defeat the evil gov.
But if this tortured logic, this simplistic blame, this transparant political rhetoric is all you can do?
hehehe
four.more.years.
KFG,
Who said this?
“I think for me and alot of other people, there are certain inalienable rights established for a person, but not those in utero.”
Lets do a flashback to October 1989.
Zeola Wilson and her 8 month old child were both killed.
Who was instrumental in the blocking of any state legislation to make killing a fetus like this a murder?
KSFG, there are some pro-life Democrats in the Kansas legislature. Pro-life should not be about one party and for some it is not.
You are just so bitter that you live in a state that over 70% of the people said your lifestyle is not acceptable for marriage. That means a lot of Democrats voted for it. You might also check and you will find that it was a Democrat legislator that also helped put it into law the first time and make it a constitutional amendment (that the people voted on). Get over it and move on. You just like to bash and spew BS most of the time.
The discussion here is not about Republicans or Democrats. It is about doing what is right. It takes both parties to get things done and most of the time they do just that. All though I know you would prefer they not work together. So stop being so clueless.
If the Brooks family wants to promote a change in the law and turn the tragic death of their daughter and grand-daughter into a positive than that is their right. I do not see this about abortion. It is about a baby that was killed and there will not be a criminal charge for her murder.
Talk about respecting the family. This is what they want to do so I think most of us want to respect the family and help them with their mission. So we are respecting the family and I want to thank the Eagle and Phillip for bringing this issue up. I do not agree with the Eagle very often so it is nice to see them talk about this.
Sigh. Sadly, of course you are right that seventy percent of kansans differed from fred only by degree. You must be so proud.
But it must be really hard for you dear, to know, that gay marriage now has higher approval ratings than the republicans in congress. Higher approval ratings than overturning roe v wade.
If you could do research, you would know that. Dare me to post the links, or perhaps, unlike nathan, you could do it yourself?
And dont ya love how folks like ruby/sts/lmnop wanna blame the democrats for everything, but when confronted with the facts, suddenly it is a bipartisan issue not about politics? Clinton did it? Kathleen did it?
heheheh
Your front porch must be FULL of old dogs that dont hunt.
You are almost as much fun to expose as nathan!
Nathan, she is not going to want to answer that because if it her friend the Gov. If it had not been blocked by Tiller and legislators like Sebelius back in the 80’s there would be a charge of murder filed today for Alexa.
KSFG is just not sure where she belongs. She hates Kansas and apparently a lot of people unless they all agree with her. She is unhappy and angry. If she did not have these blogs what would she do?
She does not want to address the issue at hand which is will she and others be willing to support the Brooks family and help make their daughter and grand-daughters death mean something or will she just continue to whine and complain.
Let’s help the Brooks family promote the “ALEXA LAW”!!!!!
If someone has a web-site for signing up for this please post it so that we can join in the effort.
hee hee hee ya know this phrase:
“You just like to bash and spew BS most of the time.”
is right out of the nathanspeak playbook.
You must be getting your talking points from the same source, or perhaps, the real author is….?
this is not a pipe heheheheheh
“She is unhappy and angry. If she did not have these blogs what would she do?”
and doesnt that sound just like hank?
I tire of this sport. Please declare victory after I hit the field here. I think I have seen enough of these posers for today.
Like RD says, have a good day
KSFG…………………they just keep going on and on and on and……. You know that old Repug tactic: Tell the lie often enough and eventually they believ it to be the truth. I think Stephen Clobert calls that “truthiness”. Go really needs to take pity on the Right, because they are really wrong.
dr,So glad you could join us in our discussion of these issues. You have demonstrated my point (that the religious right is no more than a bunch of morons parroting a few politically ambitious preachers) far better than I could. Please feel free to drop in again!
Farm Gal,Yeah, 70% of Kansans are against allowing you your rights, but that means 30% are in favor of it. 50 some-odd years ago, when my consciousness was first raised on gay rights issues, 30% in favor of gay marriage was a number so high as to be undreamed of! I know it’s slow, but we’re making progress. All we need now is another 20%; We’re over halfway there, so keep the faith, baby!
Just a few thoughts on this. Excuse the rambling.
A law after the fact will not affect this heinous crime. The murder cannot be charged with a crime that wasn’t considered a crime at the time it was committed.
How many pregnant women have been murdered and their babies murdered in this state in the last, oh, say 50 years?
Instead of arguing about charging the perp with double murder, why not make it a mandatory full life sentence with no parole when this occurs? That’s called compromising. Amazing how the pro-lifers are pro-fetus and pro-death sentence all in the same breath. And in the next they bitch and moan aobut social programs to help young mothers WHO CHOSE LIFE.
Except for using this abomination for politcal gain against abortion, what does abortion have to do with it? But just to state partisanship, this girl chose to continue with her pregnancy. Nobody forced her. Nobody forced her to abort. That’s called choice.
With all the talk about “rape,” which I’m reading this instance was not, I have a question. Statutory rape is NOT the same as rape, so I’m curioius to know how these people screaming for a new law feel about abortion in the case of real rape.
I see the usual circular talk. The same thing repeated over and over by the right that we’ve heard repeatedly until I, personally, could barf. Now, I know a little bit about circular arguments, having read up on it. They’ll keep going and going, never ending, UNLESS someone throws in an idea completely new, different, and possibly even controversial that wasn’t expected. So, to end this “Dance of Anger” (there’s a hint, if you want to read up on it), I’ll throw a stick in this circular convo and ask: If she had been a few weeks pregnant and you hadn’t known about it, would you still be screaming for a new law? If she had had an abortion and you didn’t know and then had been murdered, how many would care beyond “oh, poor girl” comments?
Go ahead, tell me I’m being mean, cruel and hateful, but I live in a “what if” world. I’m as saddened and sickened as everyone about this, whether this girl was pregnant or not. But the bs that spins around here in circles like a flushed toilet saddens and sickens me just as much. Let the mother and grandmother ask. That’s her right. But just because you ask, you won’t necessarily get it. Nobody does. Live with it.
Have a good day!
Uh, RD, in Kansas “statutory rape” is exactly the same thing as forcible rape. There is no legal distinction between “statutory” rape and forcible rape. Same statute, same penalties.
I have no problem with prosecuting the death of the unborn child as well, but that is not the law in Kansas, and as you correctly point out, RD, it cannot be retroactively applied. In this case, it appears (and I say appears only – we don’t know all the facts) that the killing may have been perpetrated so “daddy” would not have to assume the responsibilities of fatherhood. If that’s so, perhaps such a statute as contemplated should be passed; whether this happens a lot is beside the point. Once is too many.
It’s not about abortion at all, so I won’t go there.
GMC, there is a moral difference. And it seems to me that morals, not law, is what is being discussed here. Maybe I’m wrong, but…
I could throw some huge rocks and ask questions, but I won’t. Suffice it to say, I’ve had 4 girls who have all been 14. I know how hard it is to raise them. My heart goes out to the family in many ways.
Somebody should break out a length of piano wire for this “ray-ray” animal. There is a lesson to be learned here.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
heheh. If Ian were a cowboy, he would say “get a rope”….
KFG,
I am jus a Boston cracker and an Ian come lately to this great state and I prefer piano wire, just for fun! :)
V.L.R.B!!
heheh. Just struck me as funny. I dont hear that much anymore.
I think we agree though, child rapists/murderers deserve a special place in hell.
Even though I had experience with Ray Robinson as a student a few years back, we still must give him due process of the law. He is probably guilty as sin but he IS innocent until proven guilty.
Apophis, you’re right. And we here are not the judge and jury, by any means.
You all keep missing the point here. Kansas is one of 16 states that do not make it a crime to harm an unborn baby. The states that do have laws making it crime to harm unborn babies have not seen a decrease in abortions. So why has this turned into an abortion debate? It is not about abortion at all. That is a separate debate.
This is about a life being taken and it is sad to think that Kansas is only one of 16 states that committing homicide on an unborn baby is not a crime. Legislators like Steve Brunk who is very strong in about his position of being pro-life said that he had made the legislation so that abortion was not part of the bill.
Several of you have said that you do not want to see abortion be a crime and Rep. Brunk made sure the bill would not do that. It only dealt with criminal acts. What part of that is difficult to understand?
He had it spelled out in the legislation so that it did not deal with abortion. How much clearer does he have to make it?
Rep. Brunk is very much pro-life and works to end abortions but he saw a need for this bill and was willing to make sure that abortion was not a part of it. What part of compromise do you not understand?
That’s just it. Those of you that are pro-choice do not really mean that you want compromise. Rep. Brunk tried to compromise. What more do you want?
What “WE” want is for you anti-choice people to STOP trying to politicize everything.
Unfortunately, any of your proposed changes in the statutes would not have prevented this tragedy.
Seems no one wants to answer my question.
Here you go, the person behind this quote:
“I think for me and alot of other people, there are certain inalienable rights established for a person, but not those in utero.”
You might have guessed it!
Kathleen Sebelius
RD ‚Äì you said “Amazing how the pro-lifers are pro-fetus and pro-death sentence all in the same breath. And in the next they bitch and moan about social programs to help young mothers WHO CHOSE LIFE.”
Being pro-life is about protecting an innocent life. Being for the death penalty is about a non-innocent life. That person made a decision to commit a crime and knew that there were consequences. So that is pretty simple.
I don’t know who you mean when you talk about pro-lifers that bitch and moan about social programs. Actually there are a lot of pro-life and conservative legislators that have worked to develop and fund programs to help the girls that have chosen life. You might want to check some of them out. If you have facts that show otherwise then share them with us.
Facts?
Why let those pesky little things stand in their way…
Apophis – I did not say the law would have prevented the death of Chelsea or Alexa. Her mother and grandmother are finding it difficult to understand why there will be not charge for the murder of Alexa.
As far as politicizing it I’m not sure where you are coming from on that. The Brooks family has said they want to see that in the future a murder charge will be possible. Where is the politics in that? The Brooks are not politicians.
Now Apophis this may be hard for you to understand but it does take the legislature to make and change laws. They do not happen by magic and guess what? They are politicians. Even your pro-choice legislators are politicians. If it has to be addressed by politicians I am not sure why or how you figure politics are not going to be a part of it. That is reality.
Apophis,
The law is not only about prevention, it is about justice and punishment too.
If it were my unborn child killed I would want someone convicted of murder too.
there is no need to be condescending sotheysaid……….face it, the reality is that your ANTI-CHOICE people will use this tragedy to further promote your anti-CHOICE agenda. Don’t deny it! Your narrow-minded type always does.
Apophis,
If by agenda, you mean punishing those who kill other peoples unborn children…
Then why yes, how wrong of us.
A fetus that a mother chooses to abort is not murder. You see, that is what we progressives dislike about a proposed law being introduced. Your fundamentalist cabal always has an agenda.
Apophis: Usually, we try to avoid the “anti-choice” and “pro-abortion” labels if we can, to tone down the level of rancor.
This is not about abortion. I must say that I was disappointed that dr turned the discussion along that path. As has been pointed out more than once, all but 16 states have the kind of law contemplated here. And with no affect on abortion rights.
This is about justice.
Apophis,
Simple question, all the abortion rhetoric aside:
Do you think it should be a crime (murder) to intentionally kill someone elses unborn child?
I am not talking about an abortion provider either.
nathan…….I can’t respond to you because of your comment about “abortion providers”. What a woman chooses to do in regard to reproduction is no business of yours!
outlander……………why shouldn’t I use the rancorous labels? It is obvious this entire issue is going to be made into an anti-choice situation by the the “right”.
Because Apophis, it is about ideas rather than attempts to shout people down. What exchange of ideas occurs when people offer insults rather than substance, or even substance with insults?
I think that when someone resorts to labels or insults, they have just lost the argument. Just my opinion.
I was trying to keep you from saying that we are doing this to get abortion providers.
Once again,
Do you support making it a crime for someone to kill someone elses unborn child?
If there is something you need to add or explain in qualifying your answer feel free to do so.
Again Nathan……..the language is an anti-choice TRAP for women who choose to make reproductive decisions in private.
I didn’t read everybody’s post, but with the exception of the annoying “DING DING” (must be a liberal thang), you are going to have to explain to me KFG why you think my explaination was a bone head post?
You attacked everybody else, but didn’t explain why I was caught in your mix?
Apophis,
Your refual to answer the question indicates to me that you don’t think it should be a crime to kill someone elses unborn child.
Why are you so scared to just admit that?
Shame on you Nathan for using this families tragedy to further your anti choice agenda.
Shame on you further for your intellectual dishonesty trying to pretend that you are NOT using this tragedy to further your anti-choice agenda.
Again with “this is not a pipe”
JR,
I have not said one thing about pro-life or pro-choice…
I am talking about if it should be a crime to kill someone elses unborn child like this or not.
Your weak attempt at trying to get back at me is pathetic.
I suggest you go back to the thread where you want to insinuate that our troops are going to go out and committ an atrocity and stop acting like the miserable little coward you are.
Whi is it that the same leftists who want all abortion, even partial birth legal are the same people who want to spare the lives of filthy, animal scum like the carr brothas and tookie williams?
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
I like that, Ian (except for the racial overtone)
Well Nathan I was answering email from friends.
Hey keep up your record of calling me names on every thread.
Look upthread hotshot. I called this debate unfair and expoitive of the tragedy a long time ago. Am I the only one who calls you out for explioiting it?
Oh and by the way I’m off now to the other thread you mention where I WILL not call you names OR divert from the topic with silly personal attacks.
The question here is whether or not these SOBs killed one child or two. The answer seems so clear here — TWO! The baby was perfectly capable of survival outside of her mother’s womb. She had a name and a family who was excitedly awaiting her birth. She was a human being in every sense of the word.This should not only be a capital murder case — but there should be a public execution.I am not going to politicize this any more than the rest of you have. It just seems very clear to me that this is a murder of two people. Had the mother not been brutally MURDERED, she would have given birth to a LIVE BABY within just a few days.And now this is a CONTRACT KILLING! What kind of a sick individual carries out a crime like this? He looked into the eyes of a 14 year old, pregnant CHILD and TOOK HER LIFE AND THE LIFE OF HER PRECIOUS BABY DAUGHTER ALEXA! There should be no mercy shown to anyone involved with this crime — just as they showed Chelsea and Alexa no mercy.
sotheysaid, then call it what it is: Pro-birth.
My sources? Those have done exactly what I stated: Protest against abortion, yet don’t want to help when a baby is born into poverty.
Now, let’s get one thing straight. I am not and never will be pro-abortion. I am and always will be pro-choice. If you don’t know what the distinction is between the two, the next time there’s an abortion thread, I’ll be happy to explain further.
The willingness to compromise on both sides of the double-murder issue would go a long way in help both the families of the victims and the future.
Does anyone truly beleive someone who murders someone else is completely sane? I am NOT advocating the insanity plea, believe me. But along this same line, are those who murder really thinking of consequences at the time? Do you think in their planning, the one thing they think about is how not to get caught?Would any of you say that most believe they won’t be caught?
Since someone brought up the Carr brothers, who believes the two of them were worried about being caught? And isn’t that kind of thinking a tad on the insane side?
Just curious about everyone’s take on this.
This is going to be like the Carr Brothers, because this is going to be very racially charged trial.
A crime is a crime regardless, but the way the media handled the Carr Brothers and BTK, I can see this one becoming a media spectical.
But I hope who ever did this, planned this or was involved gets justice for what they did. What a shame to take away innocents lives.
I know this will be unpopular, but where are her parents in this whole thing? A young girl, in the 8th grade, having a relationship with a 20 yr old man with a criminal record? Why do parents allow their kids to “date” so young. Everythime I hear some parent talk about their 12 or 13 yr old’s “boyfriend” or “girlfriend” I want to tear my hair out. What the hell are they thinking, and what about their responsibility to protect their kids from getting into something they don’t have the maturity to handle?Our kids are allowed to engage in activities that they’re way to young to handle nowadays, and to me, this is another example of two parents not taking responsibility for what their kid is doing and who she’s hanging out with.Maybe I’m being unfair, maybe she was sneeking around without their knowledge, but I still don’t understand why she wasn’t being supervised a little closer.Having to take out a restraining order to keep a man away from your young daughter is a sign that things were way out of control long before she was murdered.
Damoon – It would be nice if every child could be watched and monitored 24 hours a day, 7 days a week but that is not possible.
There are a lot of parents that have tried to teach their children right from wrong but at some point the children make some poor decisions. Parents can continue to love their child and try everything to help them get through it and it appears that this is what the Brooks family was trying to do.
If you stop for a moment and remember the first time you thought you were in love as a child it is not hard to see how things can go wrong. The key word here is the word “thought”. You are so happy and you can see yourself spending the rest of your life with this person. Of course you think the age of 30 is old so your perspective of the “rest of your life” is a somewhat out of whack but you still believe it. Then things change and the other person is ready to move on. You now just cannot see how you will live without them. There is a lot of emotions going on at this point and you are blinded by what you consider love. Some are able to move on a little quicker and easier than others. You just hope that they move on.
Yes there are a lot of parents out there that do not try to control their children but there are a lot that do try to do the right thing and they cannot control what their children do. But they can continue trying, be there for them and most of all make sure they know that you love them. You probably do not like them very much but you do love them. Eventually they will come back around and see that perhaps you were not all bad. They will see that you did what you did because you loved them and wanted to keep them safe.
At some point as they come back around to being the child you loved from the beginning you will see that everything you tried was well worth it. Because they now see that you never gave up on them.
So let’s don’t go blaming the parents on this. None of us have walked in their shoes. You don’t know the details and we really wish everyone was perfect but guess what? People are not perfect. It is easy to point a finger but we should really look in the mirror before we do.
The issue is still that we have two dead children but only one death will be prosecuted.
Joe,”This is going to be like the Carr Brothers, because this is going to be very racially charged trial.”
I guess I haven’t followed this very close. What color is the father?
Chelsea was caucasionAll three individuals arrested in the matter (including the father of unborn child) are african american.
I’m with Damoon on this one. The time to be all concerned was when the child was 13 and out being sexually active. Parents can’t control a 13 year old? BS!
Hell hath no fury like a parent with a guilty concience.I haven’t heard anything about this child’s father. Where is her father?
Ah, thank you, Julie dear!
“The horrible murder of 14-year-old Chelsea Brooks of Wichita has renewed debate about the killing of fetuses.”
Strange. In their editorial they referred to the “unborn child.”
What are we talking about here, a fetus or an unborn child?
Blaming the parents is not going to help anything right now. But I do question why a nine months pregnant, 14-year old girl was hanging out at a roller skating rink. I cannot put myself in her mother’s show, but if it had been my child, given all we know now, I would have been keeping a constant eye on my daughter. It sounds like Chelsea was way in over her head with these thugs.
Why no hate crime here? If it would have been three whites killing a black girl all the black racists would be screaming. But the judicial system is too scared to call blacks killing a “whitey” hate.
Of course I’m not blaming the parents for her death, but to think that this girl became pregnant when she was just out of 7th grade is horrible.I can’t believe parents are so helpless that they can’t control who their 13 yr old runs around with or restrict her access to older guys. Parents need to quit being afraid to parent, discipline, and protect their kids, even if their kids “hate” them for it.
Earlier in this thread, I suggested that this girls family and their tragedy were being exploited. As it is the family itself placing this in the public forum my earlier call to leave them to privacy was incorrect. I apologize for my assertion that the family was being exploited.
What in the world is a 13 year old girl doing dating a so much older guy? And why in the world was she at a roller skating rink at 9 months pregnant?
I call this parental negligence bordering on child endangerment.
Well JR, Bonbon Huy voted to keep the age of consent for marriage at 14 because to raise it would interfer with the parents’ rights to raise their child as they see fit.
So presumably, bonbon will be defending these parents and their “right” to raise this young girl as they see fit. And apparantly, since only a civil, not a criminal complaint was filed, they thought it was ok for her to “date” a twenty year old.
Could we please get a statement from bonbon huy about how her support of this parental right is working out right here in river city?
And maybe another statement from Kay “women should have never been given the right to vote” O’Connor is bonbon’s mirror image in the kansas senate. She was the lone vote there to keep the age of marriage consent at 14.
Can we get a statement from bonbon’s buddy Kay? You know, the same kind of statement about how if this 20 year old had just MARRIED the 14 year old, all would be well.
Kansas… as wingnuttia as you think.
Ya just cant make up stuff like the votes of bonnie huy and kay o’connor.
As a parent and grandparent, I learned long ago that controlling your kids only works when you’re around. Same with protecting them from the world. The real answer is to teach your kids early on how to deal with the world, and when and where to run for cover! And keep teaching it. It saves a lot of troubles later on. Of course, if your kids are idiots, that may not be an option.
JR — Thank you for pointing out something that I meant to mention earlier. What on earth was a 14 year girl (9 months pregnant) doing at a roller skating rink? Was she roller skating? From some other things I’ve heard about Chelsea, she didn’t having very good judgment when it came to staying away from rollercoasters, either. Again, I am not blaming the parents — they may not have known all that Chelsea was getting herself into — but I do think that if I had a 14 year old pregnant daughter, I wouldn’t be giving her half the freedom that I had intrusted to her prior to getting pregnant. These are sad lessons that, unfortunately, are learned in hindsight. Hopefully, parents will not turn a blind eye to this TRAGEDY, but they will consider better ways of parenting. I’m sure Chelsea’s parents are kicking themselves for all that they wish they had done.
I was wondering the same exact thing myself Gertie.
Putting myself in their place, I’m sure I’d blame myself for what happened to my daughter. What horrible tragedy and guilt to live with for the rest of their lives. God bless them.
Reading through all of this is incredibly sad. I will never understand why some people will take offense to what another said because they believe a different way. Pro-choice and pro-life people can get along. I don’t have to agree with you but I can accept that you have a different opinion than I do. I do not support abortion. I believe that we are responsible for our actions. If you can’t handle the consequences of having sex, don’t do it.
But in saying all of that, its off the point. I personally know the Brooks family and maybe that influences my thoughts a little. But I think that any life that is taken in malice should be punishable. The murderer knew Chelsea was pregnant and therefore knew he/she was taking 2 lives. I understand the need for people to keep the abortion laws in place, but I think any act that purposely takes the life of another person is a crime. Unless a baby has birth defects or severe health issues, it will most likely survive being born in the 3rd trimester. Unfortunately, abortion is still legal up until the day of delivery. Which in my opinion is very wrong. But like someone had said before, abortion is about the woman’s right to do to her body what she wants. When someone else does it to you without your consent, thats murder. Chelsea was obviously not going to have an abortion, therefore the person that killed her, also killed her baby. And that to me, is 2 seperate murders.
As for them controlling their child, there is a point when a parent has to allow their children to make their own decisions. In no way did they support her dating someone so much older. But children are sneaky and find ways around their parents. I remember doing the same thing when I was younger but luckily for me, I didn’t suffer the same consequences so young. I think that its obviously Chelsea made some mistakes but I can see the character of her parents by the way she was dealing with the consequences. She stepped up and realized that she had to learn from her actions, and that is something only parents can teach their children. Its an incredibly tragic situation but I, like many others that knew Chelsea, hope that something good will come of this.
OK good people, how about a compromise? Why not have laws that double the penalties for assaulting, battering and/or killing pregnant women, without reference to the fetus? That would solve problems such as this one without making it an abortion issue.
I would agree with that Jed.Good thinking!
Jed,
What about in circumstances where only the fetus is killed and the mother is left alive?
Is is still just a simple assualt or battery charge or will it be murder?
It should be considered murder if the unborn child dies and the mother lives, but that’s not saying much. Seems like those who abuse and kill their own children pretty much just get their hands slapped. It doesn’t seem to me that our society values children very much.Watch to see what happens to the parent of the baby that’s in critical condition after being scaled in the bathtub. If the victim was an adult instead of a baby, the consequences would probably be much more severe.
Nathan,No, the charge would still be assault and battery, but with the doubled sentence.
Interesting idea Jed.
Actually address the crime without trying to leave wiggle room for shots at a womans right to choose.
I met chelsea a couple of times that i was at south and she is the most warm hearted chatter boxed 14 year old that i know, when she started to talk its like everything that you were doing before didnt matter you would just stop and listen to what this girl had to say… I am surprised and shocked just like the rest of the community is,that someone so cold hearted could actually do something like this! I am surprised on this fact that it happened in our community but then again i am not because our society now days just strictly staights what goes wrong they post the news and then a few weeks later its like everyone forgets about it like it never happened. I am so abolished with the fact that Kansas laws are saying that they cant charge Eldgin Robinson with the death of Alexa because it wasnt a fetus it was a real developed baby ready and fully grown only 3 weeks away from being brought into this world and you people are making it sound like “oh it happened and since it wasnt really in this world than its not contributed in the fact that Eldgin did murder Alexa and for that it isnt just one life that he took away from this earth but two and he took away one life of an extremely talented and intelligent little girl. Then the life of unborn alexa lynn , which i am extremly positive just the maximum 7 times taht me and chelsea came in contact with each other i know that Alexa would have been a great girl and gone somewhere in life beacause Chelsea would be a great mother ..Chelsea loved kids and she cared about everyone else and everyone around her before she took care of herself. I know that the stress that was put on chelsea of being pregnant was extremly difficult and i have many friends right now that are 14 – 16 yrs old that are pregnant and some of them i would say god willing that they are not as responible and level headed as chelsea brooks was. I want every one to acknowledge that the people that you read about in the newspaper saying all the good things about chelsea arent fake and made up because I can honestly say that their was no reason at all in the first place or even a hint of meaness in chelsea to even talk about. I can’t say that she is perfect because nobody is and nobody on this earth ever will be, but my point is that we all do something in life that isnt approved by the community around you, but when you find out that something like this happens you know that it doesnt really matter on what age you are and what the tragedy is that really took place, you become involved with the fact that losing a precious soul such as chelsea brooks and Alexa Lynn then thats when you knowthat you yourself whom ever youmay be also has a sufficient way of expressing the tradgidies that take place in or community.Thankyou for letting the public know what a great and incredible girl that chelsea brooks was and stillis as her spirit will live on through all of us that have felt the emotion of the tradgedy that happened.lots of love and care,Crystal Marie Rowell <3
i never really had the pleasure of meeting Chelsea Brooks, but from what i hear she was a very wonderful person. i think that you should charge eldgin robinson with two counts of murder. even if Alexa was still inside of chelsea seh was still an innocent child, and when you kill two innocent children then you need to pay the price for both, not just one.Also i would like to say that the Kansas Laws need to be re done when it comes to matters such as this one. if you let one man get away with murdering an unborn child then there is no telling how many followers this man will have. Kansas needs to take action and have this man held responsibe for both murders.Thank you for letting me voice my opinion on this terrible ordeal.Brittany long.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060626/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_death_penalty;_ylt=Au.qYd2q.cI_D9BYZ4ETA92s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ–
Now that KS is again a death penalty state, we can give these murderers what they deserve.
Thanks for sharing Crystal and Brittany, You make a lot of very valid points as to why he should be charged with two murders. I hope that all Chelsea’s friends will find peace and also learn a lesson how vulnerable a young girl with an older boyfriend can be. It was probably Chelsea’s innocence and trusting nature that drew “Ray Ray” to her. Perpetrators often focus in on those who are young, kind, giving, and trusting, because girls like that are easier to take advantage of.God bless you all, I know Chelsea and Alexa will live forever in your hearts.
Damoon..Did you happen to click on Crystal and Brittany’s names? You will see that they both send you to the SAME invalid Myspace url.It appears someone may be trolling… unless there is some other explanation…. trolls don’t usually write such logical posts….
Nope, I was gonna call troll, and even call troll by name. But I thought it would be wise to let someone else issue the first “troll” call.
The writing, the punctuation, etc. used to be scott, but has appeared as several others. The posts are full of the same memes, and phrases and punctuation, or lack thereof, that scott, and rockl, and gertie and barb have used. I think it is deliberate not to capitalize the i’s and other little tricks.
Too bad this troll is making a mockery of murder and using it for his/her political ends. Sounds like someone else who was run off the blog. But IOKIYAAR.
Pose as grieving teenagers to make some conservative troll’s point? Oh, I see. THAT is ok. The end justifies the means, no? Sure is disrespectful of the dead to imply the girl only had trolls as friends.
Where is coulter when you need her to make a mockery of grief and death?
Organized nests of trolls have obviously taken over the WE blog. I guess anyone who thinks this blog doesnt matter should wonder why it is worth the choreographed troll bliz.
What are the conservative republicans in kansas afraid of that they have to shut this blog down?
I’ve been had?!? They sound so sweet and innocent!Oh well, the advice is the same.
Yeah, where is Ann on this one? I’m suprised she’s not giving interviews and talking about how much Chelsea’s family is enjoying the attention. What a sick bi*ch.
Chelsea’s parents failed her because they did not teach her the evils of race mixing. Had they done so they probalbly would have been branded “evil waycists” but their daughter would still be alive! The clock is ticking on our rotten failed multiracial experiment and payback will be sweet.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!viva La Revolucion Blanco!!!!
Oh, SHUT UP, Ian. You’re really getting on my last nerve.It has nothing to do with race. How many white guys are on death row for killing white women?You are such a poophead.
I decided to come and read this once more to see what everyone else had to say after i was finished. It was horiible to see people using this for the wrong reason. its not meant for people to yell at others or speak ill of them, it was meant to tell how you feel about the matter. plus i didnt like being told that I am a troll, so if you wish to say somthign about me dont post t on a site where it isnt meant to be. thank you, and I am too sorry for using this other than to voice my thoughts of the murder.thank you
I read this article in the “Seventeen” magazine and that is bullsh*t i’m 13.. she had no right getting pregnant.. But she had a baby in her stomach they should fu*king die! “Ray”, laid down w/ her to have that baby. They should’ve murdered his@$$ too!