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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted June 11, 2006 at 12:09 a.m.
- Filed under Uncategorized
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75 Comments
Here is a good resource for everybody. It’s basically a website that has a collection of statitics from various sources on each state in the USA.
http://www.statemaster.com/index.php
Cool site. Thanks Joe.
XXX is late on the post as usual, lol!
Great day at the range, guys. God, could that lady cook, or what?
Sore fingers here, but worth it. Was there some interesting ordanance fired, or what? The M4 made it clear…I need new glasses.
We’ll have to look at a repeat next month. The hand cannon is clean and ready to go again. Anybody up for trying a few 440s?
(400=OUCH!)
XXX is late on the post as usual, lol!
Great day at the range, guys. God, could that lady cook, or what?
Sore fingers here, but worth it. Was there some interesting ordanance fired, or what? The M4 made it clear…I need new glasses.
We’ll have to look at a repeat next month. The hand cannon is clean and ready to go again. Anybody up for trying a few 440s?
(400=OUCH!)
“He was a member of a four-man team of Marines who entered the house, kicked in the door to a room and tossed a fragmentation grenade inside. One Marine fired clearing shots into the room, killing several people, Wuterich told his lawyer.They found men, women and children, most likely civilians, inside, but believed the insurgents had escaped to another house. They went to that house and used a grenade and gunfire to clear another room, killing more people, the Post account said.Wuterich called for a stop and went back to the platoon leader to reassess the situation. Puckett said his client knew a number of civilians had been killed and never tried to obscure the fact, immediately reporting 12 to 15 civilians had been kill”
************Upon reading this part of the article I suddenly remembered a cartoon I had seen. It was of two police officers reloading their sidearm, the street full of dead bodies and in the distance there was a man walking down the sidewalk. One officer said to the other, “I think we may have gotten him but just in case shoot that guy too!”.**********This was not un-foreseeable, in fact it was one of the greatest worries going into a urban area. So now we can simply either puff out our chest and say “when making an omelet a few eggs must be broken” or rethink what to do, the insurgency is depending on such things happening. In this case they have gotten exactly what they wanted, innocents killed and the invaders are to blame. They have done more damage then any IED could do and used the U.S. Military to do it.
So who is at fault here? Nobility is fine when it does not involve the death of innocent people. The marines had just suffered a explosion of a bomb, several of their comrades were injured and the war became real in an instance. The need to hunted down those that were assaulting took over for taking the higher ground.
So should the innocent take the blame? They were in a war zone, if they did not want to be causalities they should have never lived there! But they were not on the street, they were exactly where our own government would have told us to be if the war comes here. Stay in your home and away from the windows and doors.Betting on the odds that the war will not come in and kill you, if it does it will not come into ever house and kill all of us.
So that leaves the insurgency, it is their fault in that they wanted to use the innocent as a weapon.In this case, we gave them exactly would they wanted and the results they desired. So the solution is to not give them was they want. In the case of urban warfare, it should be handle as it would be in any urban setting of a police matter. Secure the area, call in enough forces to do a search and find those responsible for the actions that had caused that search and take care of them.
President Bush: Tell us why US Tax Dollars Fund Israeli Prostitution Business?
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
Israeli government must stop human rights abusesagainst trafficked women
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engMDE150242000
Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129157,00.html
U.S. Report: Israel not doing enough to fight human trafficking
By Ruth Sinai, HAARETZ
“Israel is a destination country for traffickedpersons” according to the U.S. State Department’sAnnual Trafficking in Persons Report, released inWashington yesterday. Throughout the world, some800,000-900,000 people are victims of traffickingeach year, a global business that yields $7-10billion in profits for those who conduct thishuman trade, the report states.Israel is ranked among the “Tier2″ countries in the report,”
http://www.kavlaoved.org.il/katava_main.asp?news_id=537&sivug_id=24
Posted by: Ed Friedemann | January 13, 2006 at 12:46 AM
Here, Rice carefully omits Israel as a “tier 2″ in Human trafficking.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/03/human.traffic/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060611/ts_nm/iraq_haditha_sergeant_dc_1
sorry I left off the line to the article.
This is a pretty interesting site. I look forward to exploring it some. Thank you Joe
440’s? You bet! Tell me where to get some and I’ll gladly get a couple of boxes!
I’ve got so much .38 and .45 ammo I can’t haul it al in my truck! Shooting my gun is practically free compared the ‘hand cannon’!
I’m not sore at all. Thought I might have a bruise at the base of my thumb today, but its not bothering me at all this morning.
I still can’t get over the feeling when the shock wave hits you!
We’ll have to try and get together the second Saturday next month, before the boy leaves.
Hank
Dog, great post.
440= emergency ward:-)
“Happiness is a warm gun…..”, glad you and the others had fun, Hank.
Actually Damoon,
The hand cannon got hot after a few rounds! It was probably the cause of your windows rattling yesterday morning!
Hank
I’ll have to come with you sometime, you and Nathan can teach me how to really shoot a gun. I’ve done it a few times and I was a pretty good shot. Got in trouble for blasting apart an abandoned toilet at the dump!
Damoon,”Got in trouble for blasting apart an abandoned toilet at the dump!”Had a sh***y day did we?
Damoon, that’s a wonderful idea. Sport shooting is a lot of fun, and the vittles are great at the Afton range.
Hank, Sportsman’s Warehouse has a nice selection of .50 mag ammo, and they’re priced better than Gander Mountiam. Gander ammo for the .50 runs $47-$65 for a box of 12 rounds. Sportsman sells 20 rounds in the $30 range. Pricey, but damn well worth it for that much fun (and firepower). Me and Walker are on for next month for sure. Let’s get Damoon involved, too.
Damoon, if you’d have shot the toilet with the .50 mag, you wouldn’t have gotten in trouble. There wouldn’t have been any evidence left, lol!
Sounds like fun, count me in.
Great! Joyce is a great shot! I’ll try and talk her in to coming over too.
Although I’m a petty macho man, both my boy and my wife can out shoot me!
Hank
Cant’t Wait, Damoon. This sounds like great fun. Hopefully, I’ll have new glasses and a new gun by then. Then I might be able to at least hit the berm LOL.
It’ll be damned embarrassing to be out-shot by the women, lol! But my ex could out-shoot most men. I saw her hit 2 clay pigeons with one shot. Talk about putting a bunch of guys to shame….
Best shot I know is my brother, the reclusive hermit with a chip on his shoulder and a heart of gold, a.k.a. the gun nut.
When we were young and growing up on a farm, my father added onto our pig barn and as byproduct we boys collected a 50-gal drum of 2×4 butts sawed off the ends of wall studs. Each was about 2-4″ long (although it’s so easy to remember objects from one’s adolescence as much larger than they prove to be upon inspection as an adult).
When the only audience was a small group of trusted friends, if the 2×4 butts were tossed 25ft or so in the air then the gun nut with a heart of gold could plug them regularly. If he had an Audience, though, then the brittle rigidity that seems now to have overtaken his personality would cause him to freeze up and he could appear as if he’d never aimed a gun in his life.
By the way, he did this with a bolt action .22 firing short rifle cartridges.
He took great pride even then in shooting each just at the top of its arc, where the butt was moving neither up or down, and where any bullet shot was guaranteed to fall harmlessly somewhere in the half-section of land we rented and leased in those days. It was important to us all that there be no way a bullet could reach civilians; my father, a Korean War armored infantry vet, drilled gun safety into our heads long before we were allowed to carry a loaded firearm.
On one amazing summer afternoon, I saw my 12-year old brother shoot 23/25 of these tossed butts, including the first 20 in a row. It was only after his older brother began keeping an audible count of hits that he faltered. If I’d have kept quiet there’s no telling how many he’d have shot. He was in the zone.
His eyesight today may not be as strong as it was as a 12-year old, but if all’s quiet I bet my brother still owns very impressive shooting skills.
When I got back to this country, my time was almost up, so they put me to work as a trainer on one of the rifle ranges at Pendleton doing live fire demos. One of the trick things we used to do was shoot quarters with an M16. Problem was, it was real hard finding the quarters when you’d hit them, lol.
INTERNET NEUTRALITY:
Is anybody else concerned about the internet proposals running around in congress that would give internet contol over to the big companies? I noticed how this is not being widely reported in the news.
http://www.savetheinternet.com/
Gary, I think it’s too late. Didn’t they go ahead and pass that a couple days ago? Just one more example of our “representatives” selling us out.
Some interesting developments in the Haditha case.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/10/AR2006061001129.html
Maybe it’s not as cut and dried as it seems. And maybe our Marines aren’t the wild-eyed baby killers they have been made out to be.
Some very bad things happen in war, one of the reasons it should be avoided at almost all costs.
Writerdog,
The Marine Corps has been developing Urban Warfare tactics for some time now.
No offense, but your “Arm Chair General” additude on the tactics we should be using is just that… You sitting in your arm chair like you know something.
If you read the accounts of the Marine he said they were taking fire from a house. When you are taking fire from a house you don’t just sit there and wait for backup while you wait for them to kill more of your fellow Marines.
That post above was from me…
Writerdog
“In this case, we gave them exactly would they wanted and the results they desired.”
I would amend that to add – and after being fed some suspect information from sources of questionable character the American news media went into a foaming frenzy of “America Sucks” self flagellation,impuning the character of our entire military and of course using it as more Bush Bashing propaganda fodder and helping to fan the flames of the insurgents.
I ask, when does a mistake become a war crime. To some in the American news media it seems to be the same thing.
I’ve said for several days prior to today on several threads that something bad happened here, it just isnt what the media seems to think it is. But there have been too many ready to compare it to a famous massacre in Vietnam.
How does anyone justify shooting small children? I don’t understand how that could ever be considered necessary.
Damoon, in a firefight, bullets go everywhere. I doubt if anybody intentionally shoots a small child. They just get in the way. It’s hard to imagine how much lead flies when the sh*t goes in the fan. Bullets go through walls and doors. If you’re hiding on the other side, it’s just real bad luck.
Marines in a fight for their lives don’t have time to identify all civilians in an area. Their lives are on the line.
Can you imagine how it must feel to have your child killed by soldiers? I can’t even imagine…wouldn’t want to.
The Marine sergeant’s description as quoted said that they were using grenades and shots from a rifle as clearing fire. Blindly firing to clear a room before entering, well and good in the first house. But after finding only men, women and children in the first house the assumption was made that those firing at them had fled to another house. Tell me in the rules of engagement, if they were not taking fire from the second house would the same tactic apply?
Urban warfare is the most dangerous for any troops, that is why it become the favorite of the enemy and the biggest woe of the approaching troops. By their own admission military leader have not came up with a good course of action other then leveling the town. The insurgency have used Hospitals, school and residential dwellings since the beginning of the war in Iraq. For the sole purpose of having civilian casualties, it boosters they claims of the Americans do not care about the people. And generates hatred for us.
So yes Heckler they got exactly what the insurgency wanted , men, women and children killed by Americans and the insurgents got away.
I went thru MOUT Training ( Military Opperation in Urban Terrain)in the Nat. Guard, and as Writerdog states, it is the most dangerous thing you can do. We were told the Army expects up to 50% personnel loss. Even in a traing emvironment, it was very stressful, and it really made a big impression on me.
All the more reason to not declare war against those that are no real threat to us. No one comes away unscathed by war, and the soldiers have to live with this all their lives.
I am a armchair General? Ok let me run with that, four man entry team not good first off the enemy is contained. You go in and now both of you are contained and it is now a fight for both of your lives.But while you are outside time is on your side and less chance of collateral damage. Call for support, you have the entire force at your aid. It depends on how many and the duration of the shots as to whether you have to go in. The insurgency is wanting civilians KIA, so a short burst is not a major offensive. But prolonged fire means they are there to stay and now you have ROE to take action.
The insurgency can not stand against our troops in a firefight, we have air support and armor at our call.More then likely they will shot and scoot, which may have been what happened here. Once the fire has stop from the first house or it has been secured . It goes from uprooting a entrenched enemy to a house to house search, ROE has change.
Nothing is done at lower then two squad strength, be it patrol or convoy never below squad strength. And patrol is divided by no more then two blocks, enough out to be effective but close enough to come to assist if needed. If possible stagger the patrol so as to one behind the other or side by side. But never the same two times in a row. Nor should a patrol follow the same route every time, or the same time of day.
ROE for entrenched enemy: establish a secure area that contains the contained enemy. Have a holding action till aid arrives and then minimize collateral damage. The enemy is wanting you to KIA as many civilians as possible. Only if there is no other way should their position be shelled or bombed. Remember you have the freedom to move in or back, they are the ones that are stagnate. Keep them so and insure that your fire is on the point. No random shots (U.S.M.C. are the best shots in the world, because of your training one shot counts more then a hundred), they are firing to draw your fire and full auto could end up with civilian KIA. When it is all said and done let the bullets in the civilian bodies be AK and not M16 or a nine.
The object is two folded, one minimize civilian deaths and since you are fighting an enemy that does not fear death but welcomes it. Help them to find out if truly there are twelve virgins waiting for them in the hereafter.
I see where now they’re trying to say we beat Zarqawi before he died (as if a pair of 500 pound bombs weren’t enough).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/12/AR2006061200298.html
From now on, I’ll take any reports of cruelty with a grain of salt.
Arm Chair General,
“four man entry team not good first off the enemy is contained.”
I have trained on clearing with a 4 man team in urban warfare. It is war, you don’t always have a platoon of men at your disposal.
How is the enemy contained? They are shooting at you from a house. If they were contained they wouldn’t have been able to flee out the back door.
“You go in and now both of you are contained and it is now a fight for both of your lives.”
When you enter you enter from one side which you control. You are not contained inside. You can always go right back out the way you came in.”But while you are outside time is on your side and less chance of collateral damage.”
Neither of us know what was happening, but time is not on your side.
You don’t know if there are more bombs or not in the area. You don’t know if the enemy is trying to flank you with cover fire.
We are talking about Marines here. You don’t sit in an exposed convoy while you take fire. You engage the enemey and return fire. A stagnant force is just asking to be flanked and gunned down.
“Call for support, you have the entire force at your aid.”
And just what do you think the conversation would be like between a young enlisted Marine taking fire from a house and his commander when he says send backup?
It would probably go something like: Get off your @#$ and asualt their posistion Marine.
I could go on, but once again, the Marine Corps has been developing Urban Warfare Tactics for some time now and I think they have much more knowledge and experience than you or I.
XXX,
What is the point of reporting crap like that? It is not journalism. It is pure speculation meant to do little more than make our military look bad.
All it does is give Ben Huie and others of his ilk more to sit here and talk bad about our military just like they were doing with the supposed Hadita massacre…
XXX,
Was nto accusing you, just bringing up a popint about the media and people here.
Well Nathan, that was a little confusing, but I think I understand what you’re saying.
So here’s MY point. It’s one thing to be against the war (and you know I am).It’s a whole ‘nother thing to slime the troops. You’ll notice I’ve counceled circumspection from the beginning about Haditha. To me, that stank from the beginning….didn’t pass the smell test. This latest tripe about beating Zirqawi is just more of the same “slime the troops” BS.
We need to consider that when the sh*t hits the fan, our soldiers need to concentrate on saving their own lives.
Young Marine, as a survivor of very similar situations, I offer you this advice. When the shooting starts, kill everything in range. A dead enemy can’t shoot you. Sorry about the colatteral damage, but that’s war for you.
Nathan,Amen to XXX advice. In Viet Nam, we had to watch out for the children packing granades. How the hell do you shoot a kid? Because war stinks, and when the chips are down, and the sh*t hits the fan, you want to get home alive.
XXX, did you read your own link?
Nathan, did you read it?
The “they” XXX was talking about were Iraqis, not Americans.
“The unusually detailed and graphic autopsy reports followed unsubstantiated suggestions from an Iraqi at the scene that Zarqawi might have been beaten.”
Chill out, guys. It was honest reporting, as far as reporting goes.
Let’s get to some lighter stuff, shall we?
For all the movie buffs here:
Entertainment Weekly’s newest issue ranks the Top 25 Controversial Movies of all time. Here are a few of them as ranked:
#1 The Passion of the Christ#2 A Clockwork Orange (I admit to nearly walking out in the middle of this one, so I’d place it at #1 with a bullet.)#5 JFK#8 Natural Born Killers#13 The Da Vinci Code#16 United 93
Also among the top 25 are:Farenheit 9/11Deep ThroatThe Last Temptation of ChristThe Deer HunterBasic InstinctDo the Right ThingKids
“XXX, did you read your own link?”
No RD, I just picked out a link and put it up for kicks and grins, lol!
“Chill out, guys. It was honest reporting, as far as reporting goes.”
Was it? I’m not so sure.
Notice that I did qualify that statement. ;)
Nathan, perhaps my real point is to learn and not make the same mistakes or give the enemy the same outcome that they want. In reference to two books I read, “Black Elk speaks” and “Son of the morning star”. Black Elk was a Sioux medicine man, Son of the morning star is about what happen before and after the Little big horn. In both books it is brought up a tactic that the Sioux would use against the Cavalry, they would arrange for a few Indians to be seen by the column. Either the Indians would fire on the column then flee or they would just flee. The column would then give chase, following the Indians into an ambush of the larger war party. With few exceptions the tactic would work and the column would be decimated.
Black Elk spoke of this and said that the Sioux became puzzled at how well this tactic worked and how often it did? They just could not understand why the cavalry did not learn to not follow them as more often then not it would lead them into a massacre?***********Your enemy is wanting you to charge in guns blazing, they are wanting you to kill in a frenzy. They know that they can not stand and fight you with any hope of winning. They are willing to die to achieve their goal and their goal is not to kill you but to cause you to kill innocent citizens. They wish to control you, use you to their ends. The U.S. is fight one type of urban warfare, the insurgents are fighting another type. The U.S. is fighting a opposing army that is using building and houses as cover. The insurgents are using civilians as their weapons. I have no doubt that their have been many days and nights spent going over tactics for fighting an enemy in a urban setting. But in this case that is not the case! They have no intention of holding the position, to do so would not accomplish anything.
I am not speaking to whether the Marines were following the ROE or not, I am speaking to the end results and that is what should be setting the ROE. In Son of the morning star it was allude to the it was the ROE of the cavalry to give chase whenever hostiles were seen. As much as the Sioux used that ROE to their advantage, the insurgents are using this ROE to theirs. You spoke to they are not contained, they can slip out the back door. I am saying that is what they are doing and leaving only the civilians to be killed.There are times when a soldier has to charge the machinegun nest, there are other time when the soldier need to hold back and wait till he is in control of the engagement. You spoke to being flanked and overwhelmed, but how will you know that the house is not packed with explosives and that it is their intent to get you in there?
The column is under fire, you must take action and setting there is not the safe thing to do. So charging the fire is? How do you know that the insurgency has not read either of the books I reference and leading you into a large group? That maybe their intention, but since they can assume that you have made aware the other that you are under fire. And their goal is not to engage you as much as it is to get you to rush in and get civilians killed Why would they change their intent?
This is some funny shit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCdT9dfrb-Q&search=Julie%20Banderast
XXX, I reread your original and now understand your use of “they.” My apology for not seeing it originally. It’s been a rotten, headache-filled day, but I should have understood the first time I read it. I didn’t. My fault.
Dingus…
OMG!
Writerdog,
If your unit is ambushed what do you do?
Your line of reasoning is like the tit-for-tat saying of what if I know that you knew that I know that you knew what I know about what you knew so I am going to do this…
It reminds me of The Princess Bride and the little guy with the poison.
No sweat RD. Take some asprin, wet rag, and lie down in a dark room for a while.
Dr. XXX, lol!
BUt I like that movie nathan!
George Carlin and Ann Coulter are gonna be on Jay Leno’s Tonight Show on Wednesday – could be interesting….
Dingus, loved the link. Phelps looks like she was spawned from satan. Beauty may be only skin deep, but her ugliness goes right to the bone.
“If your unit is ambushed what do you do?”If you can get out of the fire do so, if not. Take cover, take control, assess the situation, call for support. Hold the area till help arrives and re-assess, once you have a good understanding of the situation and the men and firepower to control the area. Then decide if you can take the enemy’s position with minim casualties. I take it we are still operating in a civilian rich environment? If so non-combatants should be protected. In this situation of you are there to protect the citizens from the insurgents , that is the job you do.
If the enemy can not be taken or killed without a minim lost of life to your troop or civilians. Then take the building down, better that those in the building die then the entire area be leveled. Four men can secure the building till more troops arrive. Since you have been given the assignment to patrol this area, I will take it that you have been paying attention to the type of structures you will encounter. And became familiar with their construction. Front doors, back doors, opening to an alley or is there a courtyard to the rear? Row housing or single structure? And you have ran the possible attack points and how to counter them. Your life and the life of your men are at stake…you better have! You are already checking every window, doorway and object near the street. Anticipation is your greatest asset, planning ahead is your best plan. In this environment you are more likely to encounter a IED and no more then two or three riflemen, any larger force might be obvious, but look for several people standing around and be ready. Look for a rush if the attack happens at or near a corner or alley as those will provide a staging area for an attack.
In case this has not occurred to you by now, with all the above….Keep your head! Acting without thinking has cost more then one soldier their life and the lives of those around them. You have received the best training in the world but it is not worth a dine if you do not think while those around you are not!
Well children,
No fitzmas this year! I predict that after November he’ll let poor ol’ Scooter off the hook too.
Hank
Are you still trying writerdog?
Just sit back in your arm chair and let the people who do this for a living do their job.
Dog,”If you can get out of the fire do so, if not. Take cover, take control, assess the situation, call for support. Hold the area till help arrives and re-assess, once you have a good understanding of the situation and the men and firepower to control the area. Then decide if you can take the enemy’s position with minim casualties.”
Wrong answer!
You just got everybody in your unit killed, Dog.
XXX,
Were you also taught to assualt into an ambush, like I was, and almost every unit on earth since who knows when?
When the enemy sets up an ambush you are in their kill zone.
They are in control because they have set up the place and time to attack you. It is usually chosen to inflict as much damage as possible.
When you are ambushed you should assualt into the ambush. Most ambushes are set up to inflict more damage and more harm to you if you run or try to disengage.
If you are and have been ambushed by a bomb, what makes you think that the area you are in is all of a sudden safe from more bombs by the enemy?
If you are ambushed and taking fire you assualt into it.
Of course you take mitigating circumstances into account, but the basic procedure is to assualt into the ambush.
Oh,
I love The Princess Bride too. It is a classic in my book!
Nathan, some tactics never change. An ambush is a trap. On the surface, it sounds insane to assault through, but it’s the most likely way to get out alive. I’ve been through ambushes and that I’m here to tell about it is testament to how well the tactic works.
Didn’t I hear that somewhere God said “Thou shall not kill”?I guess some people pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to follow, right?
Didn’t I hear that somewhere God said “Thou shall not kill”?I guess some people pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to follow, right?
I guess it bears repeating.
Better watch out Damoon. If you will recall, the last time someone brought that up on a capital punishment thread, there were about 100 posts arguing the difference between “Thou shalt not kill” and “Thou shalt not murder”(the actual correct translation of the commandment)
I still don’t get the difference. Did God tell Moses that it’s not OK to murder someone, but it’s OK to kill them?I guess I need some enlightenment.
Damoon: As I understand it, it is possible to kill someone without murdering them. One definition on murder is: “The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.”
The “unlawful” aspect is important. As you probably know, the Old Testament, in which the Ten Commandments appear, is pretty bloody. There are numerous accounts of killing in military encounters, supported and assisted by Jehovah. There are also documented acts of murder, such as King David causing the death of Uriah, the husband of Bathsheba, with whom he was having an affair.
Hi All,
I thought that this might be of interest to JR and others. It seems as if the mad cow disease is beginning to mutate into a different strain.
Mysterious Strain of Mad Cow Detected in USE-Mail ArticlePrint VersionReprintsBy Libby QuaidAP06/12/06 8:14 AM PT
Mad cow disease has turned up three times in the United States: in native-born animals in Texas and Alabama and in a Canadian import in Washington state. In the Texas and Alabama cows, tests found patterns distinct from what turned up in an infected cow in Washington state and a cluster of Canadian cases, researchers say.http://www.technewsworld.com/story/51034.html
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
I saw that Ian. Things that make ya go hmmmmmm……
Creekstone is looking better and better, like the smartest of the bunch.
Too bad the other little packing plants wont play nice with them.
Or the USDA.
Damoon,
Something tells me you are not seeking enlightenment.
From you postings in the past on subjects relating to the Bible and Christianity you only interject things into the discussion about either of them for the purpose of going against the two.
Even your question was one with an accusatory tone:
“I guess some people pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to follow, right?”
Are you truely seeking an honest answer to this or were you merely trying to flaunt something else to take a jab at the Bible and Christians?
Nathan, probably best to just drop it. Being a Christian around here is an invitation to be bludgeoned no matter which side you’re on.I note that you didn’t start this one.
So glad the christians here NEVER bludgeon anyone, belittle anyone, call anyone names, practice dominionism, etc.
And notice, I didnt start this one either.
We had a whole thread devoted to “kill vs murder”. Why not just post the link instead of reading the re-treads?
Dont wanna relive the ass kickin’?
And outlander still reserves the right to say HIS interpretation is correct. No room for other interpretations. Kinda like “science”.
But no bludgeoning here. Oh, no siree. Take a look at that thread and then tell me who uses the big sticks.
Oh, and before I forget….
Late yesterday, the Grand Jury declined to indict Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney. Like the rovester, she is now “free and clear” of charges.
But I bet we wont get a thread on THAT on this blog!!!!!
Do you think we would have gotten one if she had been indicted?
As Paul Harvey would say, the REST of the story is that she will not be indicted.