It’s been nearly two years since he lost his presidential bid, but Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., is on the offensive against the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, who accused him of making up his war heroism. He has signed forms authorizing the Navy to release his records and hired a researcher to comb the naval archives, and he has a former crew member interviewing veterans to reconstruct every incident in question, The New York Times reported. Kerry insists that he has moved on from his election loss but feels compelled to right a wrong. “They lied and lied and lied about everything,” he said.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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109 Comments
It’s about damned time!
I think so, too.
Kerry ran a clean campaign. It appears that a person can’t do that and win against the likes of Karl Rove. It is about time that the Republican SS men (not Gestapo, but the plain old barn type of S shovellers) are called down for their deeds.
Copy that RD!
This came up last week on an “open”. The blogs always are ahead of the news.
Hank Price is an admitted contributor and supporter of the Swift Boat Veterans to shill George Bush. His take on the now exposed trashing of a combat veteran for political purpose to elect a NON combat veteran should be interesting.
I dont understand why some people thought Kerry was incompetent.
I really think the guy is an intelligent person and could have put this country on the right track.
Much smarter and more experienced than Bush could ever imagine to be.
GaryC. they thought he was incompetent because he thought about the issues. He studied the facts and made a decision. If more or new facts became known he would evaluate them and modify his opinion. This “think about the facts” attitude of his was smeared by republikans to be flip-flopping on the issues. Shrub doesn’t even know or care about the facts so he doesn’t have to worry about thinking about them or having to change his (albiet tiny) mind.
I think it is about time Kerry did something about these swift boat nazis. He let them smear him and decided to show character and not lower himself to their level and retaliate. While I will give him character points it was a not so smart move on his part. But at least he pissed them off by having their slander fest movie blocked (which last I heard they were sueing him for that). Yes, aren’t the swift boat vets really patriotic. They hate that damn freedom of speech unless it allows them to slander the presidential candidate who would actually look out for them. dolts
Most people can’t deal with others who are intelligent. They don’t understand. It would’ve been nice to have had 4 years of coherent comments.
The Discovery Institute – hotbed of ID ‘research’ – hired the same PR firm used by the swiftboaters. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Creative_Response_Concepts
And yet no one wonders why he waited till now to release those records to prove his innocence?
What happened to innocent until proven?The accusers were the ones playing politics with a good man’s reputation.
While I never cared much for Kerry and had to hold my nose to vote for him, he’s a good man and a decorated combat vet.Unlike Bush, he fulfilled his duty to his country. Our conservative contributors have made much of Kerry not releasing ALL of his military records. Now all they can say is “what about his timing?”
This is what republicans have brought politics to; a new low for dirty tactics. Get used to it. republicans will do anything to hold on to power, including stealing votes.
In the upcoming elections, we’re going to have to be vigilant. The republicans control the voting aparatius and will not hesitate to hijack another election.
The end justifies the means.
Driving one of those Swift Boats up any river in Vietnam makes you a wide-open target.
It makes sense to me that Kerry and his crew were automatic heroes for just doing that.
I hope Kerry gets a good team of lawyers and turns them loose on this bunch and their supporters. SUE THEM ALL FOR EVERYTHING THEY HAVE AND EVER WILL HAVE! I’d love to see a string of bankruptcies and destroyed lives for all involved in the Swiftboat bunk and those who financed them.
Kerry is a LOSER! If you doubt that, look and listen to and at the classy bimbo he married.If he was a hero, where are the war records? He’s just another Democrat loser like Hemorrhoid Hillary and Ted the drunk.
Bendover is a pederast.
In the continuing interest of “fact” finding, is anyone going to go after “moveon.org” with the same tenacity? Seems like the rabid special interests are on both sides…
TRACY,
Agreed. In the ongoing contest to decide who the stupidest fucking poster on this blog, Ben Dover may have just clinched it.
Ben Dover,
The other imbiciles think you’re giving them a bad name.
>>‚”They lied and lied and lied about everything,” he said.<<
Sounds odd coming from a man who stretched the truth himself.
Agree with going after ‘moveon.org’.
Ben Dover,”If he was a hero, where are the war records?”
Idiot, didn’t you read the article? The records are open for you and all your lying ilk to see. And who are you to question whether Kerry is a hero or not? I suspect you’re just another panty-waist chickenhawk who has never been shot at.
Pederastic panty-waist chickenhawk.
Nathan, Kerry said that he’d release all his records when Bush did.
Strangely, only Kerry took flak for that.
“Liberal media” . . . if only we had liberal media, we might not be stuck with this ass clown for two and a half more years.
Thanks to Ben for showing that no matter how bad the Republicans get, there’s always someone stupid enough to blindly support them.
You take mindless idolatry to a new level.
Congratulations.
Strange thing………..They can’t even FIND most of Bush’s records.Hmmm…….I wonder?
Bend over must like being a pederastic bigot. He sure hasn’t complained about the label.
LH – just don’t confuse me with BendOver.
Not a problem Ben.All I have to do is read your posts and tell the difference.
May 28, 2006Kerry Pressing Swift Boat Case Long After Loss
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/28/washington/28kerry.html?ei=5065&en=c5547ed7bc74510b&ex=1149393600&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print
He shows a photograph of the skimmer being towed behind his Swift boat, insisting that it could barely fit three people, himself and two others. “The three guys who in fact were in the boat all say he [Swift-boat liar] wasn’t there and will tell you he wasn’t there,” he said. “We know he wasn’t there, and we have all kinds of ways of proving it.”. . . .
The veterans group, led by Mr. O’Neill, a former Swift boat commander who was recruited by the Nixon administration to debate Mr. Kerry on “The Dick Cavett Show” in 1971, began its campaign in early 2004 by criticizing Mr. Kerry’s protests against the Vietnam War. But backed by Republican donors and consultants, they soon shifted to attack his greatest strength — his record as a military hero in a campaign against a president who never went to war.
Naval records and accounts from other sailors contradicted almost every claim they made, and some members of the group who had earlier praised Mr. Kerry’s heroism contradicted themselves.
Still, the charges stuck. At a triumphant gathering of veterans in Fort Worth after the election, Mr. O’Neill was introduced as the man who “torpedoed” Mr. Kerry’s campaign; the Swift boat group spent more than $130,000 for a “Mission Accomplished” celebration at Disney World. The president’s brother, Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida, sent a letter thanking the “Swifties” for “their willingness to stand up to John Kerry.” Even people within the Kerry campaign believed that the attacks had cost their candidate the presidency.
******
The Swifties had one agenda from the beginning–punishing the man who testified TRUTHFULLY to atrocities he eyewitnessed in Vietnam.
Those same atrocities are occurring in Iraq. A Marine deserter in Canada said on the BBC last night that he couldn’t go to war in Iraq because he refuses to kill civilians–he’s not scared of being killed, he’s scared of having to kill innocent non-combatants.
He said that when the soldiers shoot an innocent civilian, they put an AK-47 in his dead hands and call him a “terrorist.”
Same events . . . different war.
That’s why Nathan and Hank hate Kerry so much–he pulled the curtain back from war and revealed it as the shabby, banal, everyday horror it is.
Little men all pumped up with their big guns.
Ben Dover,
Can’t get a classy bimbo of your own, huh? tsk tsk I’m not surprised.
Nathan,
Kerry released his records. I saw them. I read them. I think I even have a few of them saved. I compared them to the scant and mostly missing records of Bush.
The Bush document dump did not include pay records, relevant medical records, sign-in sheets, and defense of six months AWOL, but did include disciplinary grounding letter and report of 300 day absence
By the way, where is George’s DD214? Kerry showed his. Where are Bush’s?
applauding LeftHook
Kerry would not have turned the Zionists loose on the Arab World or allowed Atomic threats to be made, thus driving-up the price of gasoline.
Kerry never would have invaded Iraq.
“But the propaganda damage was done, and Western hawks bracket the Iranian president with Hitler as though he wants to exterminate Jews. At the recent annual convention of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a powerful lobby group, huge screens switched between pictures of Ahmadinejad making the false “wiping off the map” statement and a ranting Hitler.”
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=83169&d=3&m=6&y=2006&pix=opinion.jpg&category=Opinion
BENDOVER DON’T NEED NO CLASSY LADY. HE HAS BLOWJOB!
Their attack on both Mc Cain and Kerry to me is scandalous, I am pro military and anyone that has worn the uniform for this country. I grew up during the Vietnam war, I turn 18 in 1975 and thought a great deal about the right and wrong of that war. I want to point two things out, one is that Kerry did wait to speak out till after his service. Before a military member can not, but once out you have your voice back.
Two would be that this is the lowest of the low conduct by a political group and they did it to both a Republican and a Democrat. So just where does that leave them? They used the uniform just as Kerry did to send a message. But unlike Kerry who was speaking out about his personal convictions. They were using it to attack anyone that ran against G.W. Selling it to the highest bidder, they disgraced the uniform and all those that wear it.
I am still thinking on the civil war thing.
Why did Kerry take so long to do something about the Swifties?
Could it be because it takes time to gather the information needed?
Could it be because, as a gentleman, he chose not to fight this one, thinking, in time, that the worst would be forgotten?
How can anyone ask why it took so long, when McCain has done nothing after being slimed by his own party. And for what? So GW could run. They KNEW McCain was in the lead for the candidacy, but they needed GW in place.
Clinton was never supposed to win the election against Daddy Bush. George Sr. was to spend another 4 years in the White House, then Junior would step up to take his place. But that didn’t happen. Clinton won. And immediately after he did, they went in search of something…anything…that would get him out of the White House. They tried. Oh, my, they tried. But it didn’t work, so they HAD to make sure Junior was the next candidate and would WIN. (Remember Florida 2000? And see Robert Kennedy Jr.’s article on how they made that happen.)
It only takes common sense. Try some. It’s refreshing.
Good posts, WriterD and RD.
The CONs are being awfully quiet on this one.
Not like them . . . hmmmm . . .
Oh yes, we would be so much better off had traitors kerry/gore been elected rather than the traitor shrub! You all are fretting over the bit players when the whole production is rotten!
What would kerry/gore have done about the immigration mess?
What would kerry/gore have done about nafta/cafta and the evils of globalisation?
If you really think that either kerry/gore would not have gone to war in the mid east for israel then you sould all put down your crack pipes and step away from your computers.
How many of you fools objected when the traitor clinton bombed women and children in Serbia? freaking hypocrits!!!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Good posts all – and I still hope Kerry turns a pack of lawyers loose on them and their financial backers!
It always amazes me how the neocons want to pick Kerry’s service record apart. You’d think that if they really cared about what someone did or didn’t do during their military service, they’d be all over Bush like a crow on a junebug.
Kerry’s had two years to set the record straight. It wasn’t important, until now. Why, is that?
Self-appointed war hero, trying to justify his 4 month contribution, for his own personal gain.
Mo-Fo, is a looser and should accept the fact.
James: Charlie Chan says ” A closed mind down not rattle.”
This could turn out to be better than American Idol. I pick Kerry.
What all this really proves is that the Democratic candidates need to shelve their advisors and just go with their gut instincts. They will tereby certainly expose their true characters to the public. Had Kerry done so, instead of listening to his advisors not to fight these charges during the election, he’d be president now and, more importantly, our country wouldn’t be on its way down the tubes as it is now under the lying, corrupt Bush administration.
Kerry’s a “looser.” Looser than Bush who’s too tight-assed?
No wonder James likes Bush–they both use English “loosly.”
Tracy,You said:”Bendover is a pederast.”
You better be able to prove that because I know an attorney that will take a case for a percentage with no out of pocket expense for the client.
Right angle, that’s an empty threat. But you’re probably not smart enough to understand what the law says about libel.
Just another moron.
(Now bring on your lawyer, bigshot)
If you go to http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php, you will see the picture of those veterans in Kerry’s group. If I can count right, sixteen of his “band of brothers” do not support him, some of them very strong Democrats while only three support him. Why did so many in his group hate him?
Hey xxx,I think you just showed your lack of common sense. It is my opinion that Tracy defamed him. Try it on me and see where you find yourself. I am not afraid to go to court. Been there and won every one.
For your information:.Defamation, sometimes called “defamation of character”, is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person’s reputation.
If a person or the news media says or writes something about you that is understood to lower your reputation, or that keeps people from associating with you, defamation has occurred. Slander and libel are two forms of defamation.
Hey “Right Angle”
If what you say is true I got a real good case against a poster on your side. You best tend to your own fella.
By the way “Right Angle” XXX is one of the most credible and common sense posters here. YOU are just another blogfarting bushbot shill.
Take THAT to court hotshot.
Do you know who Ben Dover is? Does anybody? Maybe calling this particular person a pederast would elevate his reputation – we have know way of knowing and I think that threats of law suits seem a little far-fetched.
Mark me down as a skeptical.
By the way “Right Angle” I put your nic in quotation marks for a reason. You are likely a poser who uses another nic.
Hey J R
” If what you say is true I got a real good case against a poster on your side.”.Go for it. I think that there is too much name calling and not enough debating the issues.
RighTangle–
All the men that actually served with Kerry supported his story EXCEPT for one guy who was a f-up then and Kerry had to put him on report.
He’s still a f-up.
All the other lying bastards who said “I served with John Kerry in Vietnam” mean that they were in Vietnam at sometime either before, during, or after Kerry was there and virtually none of them actually knew Kerry or knew of him until they came on board for the payback against Kerry’s testimony against American atrocities.
Hey Lefthook,Are you saying that Kerry did not use the photo AND THAT he claimed that they were all behind him.
.Alvin A. HorneAttorney at LawHouston, TexasMarc Erik Elias, EsquireGeneral CounselJohn Kerry for President, Inc.
RE: Photograph on pages 24 and 25, Newsweek issue dated March 8, 2004 and Kerry Campaign Lifetime Ad dated May 3, 2004.
June 1, 2004
Dear Mr. Elias:
I’m a former Swift Boat officer and early member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. I am also an attorney licensed and authorized to practice law in the State of Texas. Below are listed the names of eleven Swift Boat officers of a total of 20 depicted in the referenced photograph with your client, Senator John Kerry. They are:
George BatesThomas HeritageTerrance CostelloRobert “Rocky” HildreathRobert ElderWilliam HouleGeorge ElliottWilliam SchumadineAl FrenchLarry ThurlowJim Galvin
These officers demand that Senator Kerry’s campaign cease and desist from all uses of that photograph, taken on January 22, 1969. To my knowledge, of the remaining eight individuals, Mr. Gilbert and Mr. Crosby are deceased and Messrs. Baker, Bernique, Imbrie and MaCann have not indicated a willingness to presently take any position regarding Mr. Kerry.
Right Angle,
One pseudonymous poster on a public weblog called another pseudonymous poster a “pederast” in the midst of a mutually uncivil exchange, and YOU’RE threatening litigation for defamnation of character?
A question: precisely how stupid are you? Your big talk might want to find itself a thinking brain. All dangle, no angle.
And I must say, for a Wingnut, you sound awfully cozy with those trial lawyers. Does Bill Frist know about this?
Crybaby Wingnut bitches. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Yes well “Right Angle”
Who made you arbiter of the blog? You think there is too much acrimony and name calling then why do YOU engage in it?
“Hey xxx,I think you just showed your lack of common sense. It is my opinion that Tracy defamed him”
Whoever you are “Right Angle” practice what you preach.
Right Angle?
Stop emailing me appeals to keep the blog peaceful while you post attacks.
Limited technologically as I am, I can cut and paste. Would you care to see your posts disputed by your own email to me?
Right Angle,
What game are you playing? This is just a humble blog populated by average folks. But I’d say that you’re already out of your depth. Whatever you’re trying to pull ain’t flyin’.
J R,
Good on you! Vive la blog transparency!
Now if y’all will excuse me, Terry Fox is on Channel 3! Woohoo!
WryTangle–
I’m not interested in the lawyer for a bunch of man-whores.
As horrible as hell is, when they die, they will make it even more foul.
Right Angle,I say your an animal molesting pervert.Now take me to court, bitch.
“It is my opinion that Tracy defamed him.”
It’s my opinion that you’re a mindless moron.
Another “seabag” lawyer.
“…Alvin A. HorneAttorney at LawHouston, Texas…”———————————–Posted by: Right angle | June 04, 2006 at 12:05 AM
A Texas lawyer representing the Swift Boaters?
Holy Whitewater, Batman, whoda thunk it?
You can always tell when a person is losing an argument based on logic, they start calling people names, sad.
Obtuse angle,Since your on-line monikor is “right angle” and refers to an etheral person, there is no case for “suing” anybody. I can call you anything I want, without fear of you being able to do anything about it. Should you try to sue anybody, you would be opening yourself up to fraud, which can carry a heavy civil penality.
You are an ignorant moron without brains enough figure all that out. Any lawyer would laugh you right out of his or her office. Take your prepubescent arguments somewhere where they will be appreciated, like http://www.liberalsmustdie.com . You will probably fit in very well there: after all, like morons do think alike.
Ah right angle, but I haven’t lost an arguement. I’ve proven a point. The point is, you can’t sue me. Don’t try to change the subject. I have intentionally defamed you, Right angle. So when can I expect to hear from your lawyers? You asserted that you could sue someone for defamation over what’s posted on these threads. I’m challenging you outright to back that up. I assert that you’ve made statements you can’t back up. Prove me wrong.
Hey CFYou wrote:.‚”One pseudonymous poster on a public weblog called another pseudonymous poster a “pederast” in the midst of a mutually uncivil exchange, and YOU’RE threatening litigation for defamnation of character?”.Serious question: I have reviewed the log, where was Ben Dover uncivil to Tracy?
Right angle has chosen the wrong moniker. That should be Tri angle. You see, he’s so testy because he hasn’t come out of the closet yet, and it’s eating away at him. Y’all know how these tightie-righties are.
Me thinks he could be Bend Over.
You can always tell when a person is losing an argument based on logic, they start calling people names, sad.
Wrong angle,If you were an actual person, the responses might be different. As you are basically nothing more than an internet nom de plume, what do you expect, roses?
You have no argument; you have no brain.
You can always tell when a moron has lost an argument when he starts repeating himself.
So Rightie, can I expect to hear from your lawyer Monday?
Gonna take big bad TripleX to court?
Bring it on!
where is heckler?
You can always tell when a person is losing an argument based on logic, they start calling people names, sad.
Right Dangle,
He wasn’t directly uncivil to TRACY. But tell me whether you regard this as a ‘civil’ thing for Ben Dover to post:
“Kerry is a LOSER! If you doubt that, look and listen to and at the classy bimbo he married.If he was a hero, where are the war records? He’s just another Democrat loser like Hemorrhoid Hillary and Ted the drunk.”
Frankly, THAT’S libelous, since it claims the following:
-Theresa Heinz-Kerry is sexually promiscuous;-John Kerry is a perjurer;-Ted Kennedy is an alcoholic.
That’s sufficiently ‘uncivil’ to qualify Ben Dover as a participant in an mutually uncivil exchange.
More to the point, are you willing to call Ben Dover ’sad’ for having abandoned logic in favor of calling prominent Democrats filthy names?
Well, CF, I cut loose on w. with everything but the kitchen sink, but I guess the fiference is that it’s true?
Nice reply CF.Yes, I may be old fashioned but I like to see the debate based on the issues, that is how we learn. When it degrades to calling people names it serves no purpose except to create hard feelings.
By “yes” I MEAN it is sad that it get to calling people names, not that Ben Dover is “sad”
Bush said he had killed 30,000 Iraqis while responsible estimates from reliable sources put the number at 300,000 and what’s bad is that Bush knows the real number, and deliberately lies.
And when you translate what President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran was accused of saying ” Israel should be wiped off the map,” from farsi to English, that’s not what was said.
When AIPAC had their annual meeting the use two big screens. One showing Adolph Hitler ranting and the other showing President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran speaking against the excesses of Zionist brutality.
All this to hipe their members to help rig another election or start an atomic war?
I’ll link to a Guardian column.
Right angle,
There’s really no need to email me privately to repeat what you post on the blog. THAT is sad.
Ben Dover’s first post:
“Kerry is a LOSER! If you doubt that, look and listen to and at the classy bimbo he married.If he was a hero, where are the war records? He’s just another Democrat loser like Hemorrhoid Hillary and Ted the drunk.”
So let’s talk about namecalling, shall we?
I wonder if it is really name-calling when one takes a rather obviously ‘provocative’ pseaudonym (e.g. JoeBlow, BenDover, XXX, RightAngle) and twists it a bit.
Sorry, CF. I missed your post about civility and libel. You said it much better.
So Kerry NEVER released his war records, huh?
Kerry allows Navy release of military, medical records – Boston Globe
By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005
WASHINGTON — Senator John F. Kerry, ending at least two years of refusal, has waived privacy restrictions and authorized the release of his full military and medical records.
Read the full article:http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/kerry_allows_navy_release_of_military_medical_records/
And if you’d like to see what was released for both GW and John Kerry, I believe in 2004, here ya go, pdf files and all.
http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/lit/election2004/docs.html
RD–
You’re using facts against people who have no interest in facts.
They know what they want to believe, and they believe the people that tell them that.
This is why Rush makes a quarter BILLION dollars a year. He tells the right wing what they want to hear, facts be damned.
Okay, new rule:
No whining and moaning about “personal insults” when you are one of the worst abusers:
Nathan, Hank, RightDangle, Anon, ID, Joe Blow, Todd–I mean you.
Ben, what’s provocative about XXX? It’s a size thing.
I thought it was your rating!
;^)
You have to admit though – it is a moniker that someone could have fun with.
TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) — Ayatollah Ali Khameni, Iran’s supreme leader, has warned the United States that any “misbehavior” directed at Iran would serve to disrupt Gulf energy shipments.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/04/us.iran/index.html
TB, I know the truth is being ignored. They believe what they want to believe. But I’ll keep trying. Someday, I’ll be able to say, “I told you so,” and I’ll LMAO when I do.
Good to see you, KFG.
Hey, LeftHook!! You egotistical ass!
I appreciate you pointing out my spelling error. Let’s hope you canavoid one and the same.
James
“Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of man who can fabricate it.”
“Totalitarian propaganda can outrageously insult common sense only where common sense has lost its validity.”
Hannah Arendt, _The Origins of Totalitarianism_
Contrast Arendt’s statements to this revelation by an anonymous Bush aide (Rove?):***********************************The aide said that guys like me were ”in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who ”believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ”That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. ”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”***********************************
Whole article here:http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1265346000&%2338;en=67e5e499d9ce0514&%2338;ei=5088
James–
Kerry served two TOURS in Vietnam, not just 4 months.
Why don’t you try doing some research on Kerry rather than just regurgitating what you heard on Sean Hannity?
BTW, you’re right, I am an egotistical ass, I’ll grant you that one.
DD–Wow! Great find! I read “Origins of Totalitarianism” years ago but hadn’t remembered that gem.
I know…I know…Tell a lie long enough and hard enough it becomes the truth.
Sorry I missed out on this whole thing, or not, pretty sad excuse for a debate.
Try this KFG.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/06/the_truth_john_kerry_and_the_n.html
And once again, WHERE IS HECKLER?
Wow, was that weird or what?
Heheheheh.
And heckler complains about biased news sources? He complains about wikipedia when the edit trail is clearly posted and the facts can be confirmed with the original source?
heheheheh
Just to piss you off heck…
“The SBVT was formed in 2004. Membership was initially limited to veterans of the Vietnam War who at some point served in a Swift boat unit, as did Kerry.
Of the 3,500 Swift boat sailors who served in Vietnam, the names of some 250 appeared on the group’s initial statement against Kerry; most did not serve at the same time or in the same place as Kerry.
Several of those who joined SBVT during the 2004 campaign were officers who had previously praised Kerry’s conduct during the Vietnam War.
These included Division Commander Grant Hibbard, who wrote positive evaluations of Kerry, and Commander George Elliott, who submitted Kerry for a Silver Star. SBVT counts, in total, 16 of 23 officers who served with Kerry in Coastal Division 11 as members.[3]
Despite SBVT’s claims that Kerry’s “entire chain of command” belonged to the group,[4] neither Joseph Streuli, former commander of Coastal Division 13, nor Art Price, former commander CTF 116 who is described in “Unfit for Command” as part of Kerry’s chain of command, are affiliated with the group.
Not all SBVT members claimed to be signing the letter for the same reason. For example, from an interview published the day before the letter was made public: ” ‘[Kerry] earned his medals, he did what he was supposed to do in Vietnam,’ said retired Coast Guard Captain Adrian Lonsdale, who was in the chain of command above Kerry and oversaw various operations dealing with Navy swift boats of the type Kerry commanded. ‘But I was very disappointed in his statements after he got out of the Navy.’ “[9]
Of those who served in Kerry’s boat crew, only Stephen Gardner joined SBVT. Gardner appeared in the group’s third television advertisement.
All other living members of Kerry’s crew supported his presidential bid, and some frequently campaigned with him.
Kerry crewmembers have disputed some of SBVT’s various allegations: “pure fabrication” (Jim Rassmann), “totally false” (Drew Whitlow), “garbage” (Gene Thorson), and “a pack of lies” (Del Sandusky).[10][11][12][13]
No members of SBVT were aboard Kerry’s boat during any of the incidents for which he was decorated.
The only member of SBVT who was present at the Silver Star incident, Rood’s crewmember Larry Clayton Lee, praised Kerry’s tactics and stated that Kerry deserved the medal; he stated that after discussions with other SBVT members, he came to question whether Kerry deserved other medals for incidents at which he was not present.”
Not that any of you would LIE about swift boaters. Heheheh. That is why the term “swift boater” has been associated with the term “liar”.
KFG
Nice job of cut and paste.
I noticed you didn’t really address the subject of the thread, which would be the story about Kerry changing his CIA hat story AGAIN.
If you read the story I linked to you’d notice that the guy who commanded ALL SWIFT BOATS during the time of Kerry deployment said NO operations such as the one Kerry descibed took place in the region Kerry served. There WHERE SOME special missions that took place but not down south were Kerry served.
Kerry lies, changes his story, lies some more….etc….
If you can’t formulate your own arguement I’m not gonna waste my time with you.
Heck, the point is, the people who WERE THERE, agree, Kerry did not lie. People in the chain of command agree.
We already did this dance on another thread. I could post the links, so you could check out the ORIGINAL sources, but you wont, so why should I bother?
But just keep trotting out the Larry Thurlow’s of the world.
I love how you always think it is a waste of time AFTER you get your ass handed to you!
KFG
You make me laugh. Grab your ass, you notice something missing? Look in the mirror, its on your head.
Over fifty swift boat lies have been refuted by multiple sources. And you defend them?
Even BUSH didnt defend them.
Or was that just political pandering.
“[Kerry] earned his medals, he did what he was supposed to do in Vietnam,’ said retired Coast Guard Captain Adrian Lonsdale, who was in the chain of command above Kerry and oversaw various operations dealing with Navy swift boats of the type Kerry commanded.”
Damn lying military types….
I am told that John Kerry is going to be on the Bill O’Reilly new prograqm tonight at 7 PM.
I know that true liberals will not watch Bill O’Reilly.
…and true neocons wont watch kerry.
I wonder how low the ratings will go, or if everyone will tune in, like to car races, in order to see the wrecks.
If this is true I am ashamed of Kerry for dignifying that pig O’Reilly.
On one hand, I agree with you JR, but on the other, I think Kerry shows his courage by going into the lion’s den, when he KNOWS the falafel man will lie, spin, distort, belittle, and generally behave like he always does.
Kerry isnt afraid of the oh so civil right.
And BTW, did anyone see Jon Stewart DESTROY bill “gambling addiction but high moral values” bennett on TDS?
Probably not, since people here hate seeing their own hypocricy in action.
That’s OK J R, I been ashamed of Kerry since the 1960’s
JR, I don’t understand. Kerry has the truth on his side, so isn’t it time to let that be known?
I just don’t like seeing O’Reilly’s ego fed. Of the right wing pundits, and I monitor them all, O’Reilly IS more moderate. But he is also the most full of himself. Well second to that gas bag Limbaugh anyway.
I wonder if he will let Kerry talk?
JR, The truth is a powerful weapon. Never underestimate it.