The wild gunfire in Old Town over the weekend that wounded seven people — two others were stabbed — can’t help but give pause to Wichitans considering an evening out in the popular entertainment district.
The shootings might be another “anomaly,” as police called the January incident in which police fired two dozen shots at a suspect in Old Town, but there’s cause for concern: Another shoot-out or two could permanently damage the area’s image.
A review is in order by police and Old Town merchants: Should nightclubs be adding more private security for their parking lots? The perception of safety is crucial for Old Town’s success, especially with the new arena going in nearby.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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44 Comments
Ah yes….run the adult entertainment out on a rail and make it a ‘family friendly’ place to go. Yep…sure is..gunfights included in the entertainment.
Methinks “our mayor” has proven again to have his priorities all screwed up–pushing his brand of religion on a city while ignoring the serious issues. This is a perfect example of his shortsightedness, his private religious agenda, and his inability to lead.
According to some posters here, the best answer to gun violence in old town would be to issue guns to EVERYONE as they enter old town.
If the criminals didnt know who was carrying, they would be less likely to shoot. Especially if they knew the consequence would be that one of the GOOD guys would blow his head off.
Isnt that how the arguement goes? Shouldnt concealed carry make crime go down?
When the concealed carry law goes into effect, these unpermitted gun owners should go away (since they could get permits then) and crime should go down out of fear of those who might or might not be carrying.
raptor,Last time I checked, gun fights are illegal and are generally high on the list of law enforcement’s list to prevent. I’m sure it’s assumed that the mayor feels this way as well.
What? You guys don’t like the ‘old world’ atmosphere?
Anti-gun morons will use any tragedy involving the illegal use of firearms to push their anti 2nd Amendment agenda. As this recent shooting proves, the type of people that carry and use guns to commit crimes will do so regardless of how many laws are on the books. Concealed carry is about giving law abiding citizens the means to protect themselves with a firearm without breaking the law. No concealed carry proponent claims that concealed carry laws would prevent crimes like the shooting in Old Town, only that a law abiding citizen should have a legal means of defending themselves with a firearm from the criminals that are already carrying and using guns. What you will see is anti gun nuts claiming that banning or restricting the sale or use of guns to law abiding citizens would somehow make it less likely that criminals would engage in a shootout in Old Town, because a criminal that does not care about the laws against murder and assault would be stopped dead in his tracks when confronted with another in a long line of laws making it illegal for him to own and carry a gun.
Scott, why do you need a gun to defend yourself? Are you planning to migrate west in a covered wagon? Are those dangerous armadillos going to attck you and your family?
I too own firearms, but I see no need to carry a concealed weapon in this day and age. This isn’t the wild west anymore.
Now dis b da rite thread fo sho!
Most of the people engaging in the gun play are low iq negro and beaner criminal scum with illegal weapons. Concealed carry is good but we also need stand your ground legislation. Allow us law abiding gun owning Whites to gun down the scum without fear of frivolous civil or criminal persecution and we will soon put an end to this problem!Viva La Raza Blanco!!!viva La Revolucion Blanco!!!!
Ian, do you really mean to kill your own family?That’s harsh, dude!
Tracy,
I was hoping that you would prove to be a worthy cyber nemesis for me, but alas, I was wrong. You are simply a coconut and not even a clever one at that.
viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Why thank you Ian, you wonderful, wonderful man!Have your parents been smuggled in yet?
I don’t know why everyone is jumping on the liberals about any of this. John Bolton and the U.N. will be the ones taking your guns.
teehee
Why do I not need a gun to defend myself? People frequently refer to the Wild West implying that the need for self defense is an antiquated notion superceded by our polite, modern society. Anyone can be a victim of violent crime at anytime in any neighborhood and the shooting in Old Town proves how dangerous and random crime can be. I have been a victim of violent crime and when you a facing a criminal that is intent on taking your life, you come to understand that calling 911 and waiting for a response is not quite good enough.
Scott………..do you think because you will later this year be able to “pack heat” that you are less likely to be a victim of crime? I’d love to see the data that actually proves that.
No, I don’t think that carrying a concealed weapon will make me less likely to a victim of a crime. It will however, make me more likely to survive a violent crime if it does occur and allow me to protect my life and property instead of relying on the police to be at the right place at the right time.
I suppose you have data that supports your theories that modern cities are safer than the Old West, that restrictions on the rights of law abiding citizens to carry firearms results in fewer crimes and that more gun laws is all that is needed to convince criminals that carrying and using a gun illegally is not the right thing to do.
Why are we in Old Town anyway?
We need to pull out and stop people from getting killed down there.
To search out the WMD’s, of course(wildly mad drunks)
Oh,man, Nathan, you stepped in right into that one.
*Why are we in Iraq anyway?
We need to pull out and stop people from getting killed there.*
Seems to work both ways, methinks.
Maybe the city and Old Town should just post signs: Enter at Your Own Risk (and don’t forget your gun if you do.)
Rambling thoughts… (aren’t they always?)
If we can’t keep Old Town “safe,” what’s going to happen on Riverwalk?
I haven’t been to OT for years, and that was on a Saturday afternoon. (Oh, wait, correction. My oldest once took me to a male strip show after that. *blush* Never again…never, never, never.) I don’t know what’s going on, don’t know what all is in OT anymore and will probably keep to daytime activities, considering what I’m now reading. So who are the shootists? And what do authorities think are drawing them there? Curious minds want to know.
RD- here’s the link for the eagle’s coverage of the shooting
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/14905135.htm
Booze and guns don’t mix.Julie, thanks for the link…first I’ve heard of the incident.That said, I don’t go to Old Town anymore, either. It’s a drunken circus. Half of them seem to be looking for trouble. I had a drunken idiot walk up and lean against my Harley and look at me like “what are you going to do about it?” I guess he must have been pretty well anestitized, because the pipes burnt him pretty bad. He squealed like a girl. Moral of the story, If you’re going to lean on a man’s Harley, make sure it’s not the side with the exhaust pipes. Second moral: God will punish you for leaning on my Harley, LOL!
Way too many drunks in Old Town.Drunks = Trouble.
X- That’s good!
Thanks, Julie. I wondered if it might be gang related in some way.
XXX, you’re right. Booze and guns don’t mix. Booze and nothing don’t mix for some.
The incident in Old Town points out the one thing that bothers me about CC. Gunfights tend to take down innocent bystanders.
Ah, yes. The fantastic family environment of Old Town. I can’t wait until we’re all parking down there to walk to the arena. (snicker)
Abd how many millions of our tax dollars have we wasted on our bar district?
There is a reason why many Wichitans avoid Old Town, it’s crowded, it’s fully of drunk people, things are overpriced, and it doesn’t exactly seem safe. So why do we continue to throw money downtown? Who benefits from this? Find that out and you’ll have your answer….my guess would be someone very close to city government has a vested interest in the gentrification of downtown…
Also, why is it that when people discuss the 2nd Amendment, they always leave off that “well regulated militia” part?
Lets see now … what economic theory calls for government ownership of the ‘means of production’? Old Town … Hyatt … Arena … Gander Molehill … WaterWalk …
Nicki,
The answer is…because they choose to. If they didn’t, they’d realize that the 2nd ammendment, as written when written, really doesn’t apply to the citizens of today.
But I’ve given up arguing that one. It’s a total waste of time to point it out to them.
“There is a reason why many Wichitans avoid Old Town, it’s crowded, it’s fully of drunk people, things are overpriced, and it doesn’t exactly seem safe.”
Except for the not exactly safe part, because I’ve never looked into it, but that sounds a lot like Westport in KC. One trip to cruise the bars was enough for me.
Nathan, that was hilarious!!
Do you think we should pull out in increments, or all at once?And what kind of REAL Kansas thugs will move in and operate out of Old Town if we ‘cut and run’?
Yeah, Nicki.Nobody goes there anymore because it’s always so crowded.
But, don’t forget, thanks to our mayor’s moralistic campaign, Old Town is ‘family friendly’ since he personally ran the adult entertainment place out of business.
Yep..gunplay, public urination, fights and lots of drunks. Good old family entertainment.
>>But, don’t forget, thanks to our mayor’s moralistic campaign<<
Gone are the good ol’ days of titty bars and public urination, eh raptor?
“Also, why is it that when people discuss the 2nd Amendment, they always leave off that “well regulated militia” part? ”
Probably for the same reasons gun-grabbers leave off the “(right)…shall not be infringed” part.
Y’all might notice. The problem appears not to be Old Town in general, it seems to be this particular bar (currently Flashbacks, I forget what they used to call themselves). They seem to have a history of trouble. And the Eagle’s comments aside, I’d bet my left (substitute appropriate body part here) that the shooting’s gang related.
What is it about that bar? Having only been there once (years ago), I don’t know. But there appears to be a pattern here.
Am I off base here?
Actually you’re not! I hardely go to Old Town, because I’m old now. But I was at Flashbacks a few weeks back on request of a friend’s Birthday Party.
That place is huge and is packed full of people. I couldn’t tell you the firecode occupancy number the building has, but there are hundres of people, inching up towards a 1,000 I bet.
It’s a meat market and lots of testostorne and alcohol doesn’t mix well. Plus I notice that there are groups of guys that hang, if not gangs.
It’s also kind of segregated. You will have blacks at one end, asians in another, latinos on one side, and whites just mingling around everywhere.
But Old Town is crawling with cops all the time. I’m surprises they didn’t catch this brawl. Because whenever I seen a brawl (long ago) in Old Town, bouncers and cops would be there within minutes.
GMC-The bar in question is currentlyFlashbacksused to beRita’s Uptownused to beThe Caveused to beThe Cowboy
It’s always been a meat-market. Brings back some old college memories from Cowboy… and some coyote ugly memories too (thank god I didn’t wear the beer goggles too often)
GMC70…We have walked the streets of Old Town many Friday nights handing out roses to the ladies and praying for people who ask. We have never had any problems with the places nor the patrons… EXCEPT for Flashback’s… they tend to give us alot of crap every time we pass by…Maybe it’s just an aggressive crowd….
I would like to see Old Town’s crime statistics compared to other neighborhoods in Wichita. I am sure it is or about equal in crime.
Of course this is another thing for the anti-Wichita people to complain about. I have walked in Old Town before and never had any trouble. If you get rid of Old Town Wichita would suffer. Old Town now is a much better place then what it was before with vacant and delapitated wharehouses.
I was wondering if Flashbacks was the old Cowboy. Thanks for the info.
I have an office window that looks out on Old Town. I have seen all manner of sexual acts taking place in parking spaces, people urinating in our landscaping, and multiple fights that led to people being carted away on gurneys with a paramedic on their chest.
Yeah, safe as milk.
I too own firearms, but I see no need to carry a concealed weapon in this day and age. “This isn’t the wild west anymore”.
Posted by: Apophis | June 26, 2006 at 03:08 PM
That would look good on your grave marker.
This was sssooo good I couldn’t avoid it and have to say something:
“There is a reason why many Wichitans avoid Old Town, it’s crowded, it’s fully of drunk people, things are overpriced, and it doesn’t exactly seem safe”
1. “Old Town is crowded.” Apparently suddenly and without warning!!! Cavers have been saying for years that Old Town is a ghost town and just a revolving door of bars that nobody goes to. If Old Town is such a waste of money that no one goes to, how is there anyone to shoot at (or do the shooting) and why is it suddenly “crowded.” I guess cavers like to make facts support their argument instead of letting the facts speak for themselves.
2. “It’s full of drunk people.” And if you actually go to Old Town, you’ll see it’s full of responsible sober people, too. By the way, Old Town is just east of downtown, across the railroad tracks and north of Douglas. If you reach Washington you’ve gone too far. Cavers should check it out sometime, I know none of you have been there before and don’t even know where it is, but it really is a fun and safe environment.
3. “Things are overpriced.” If you’re used to nickel hamburgers and 15 cent gas of fifty years ago. Otherwise, it’s not out of the ordinary compared to other clubs and entertainment districts around the country (if not a little cheaper).
4. “It doesn’t exactly seem safe.” If you are from Garden City and are used to a lost dog making the front page of the newspaper and spawning a town-wide state of emergency and manhunt. However, if you are a person of common sense, recognize there are stupid people who do stupid things anywhere you go, or maybe if you have even stepped foot outside of the utopia that is Wichita (I’m not being sarcastic) and know what the real world is like, you’ll be fine in Old Town.
Those are just some comments from an Old Town regular. I’ve never had my car broken in to or vandalized. Never seen anyone’s car broken in to or vandalized. Never been in a fight or seen a fight there. Never have heard shots. Haven’t even heard any loud arguments. I’ve seen a few people doing dumb things but that’s not a crime. Thankfully, neither is having fun (unless the cavers have their way).
Shocker’07..
Ok.. I’ll bite… what the heck is a “caver”?
I agree.. we have never had any problems in Old Town worth mentioning…. except for finding a good parking place!