Bush, America not getting warm welcome

The global image of America has sunk further, even among our close allies, according to a survey by the Pew Research Center. President Bush saw that firsthand during his visit today to Austria. Protesters carried signs that said, “World’s No. 1 Terrorist,” and foreign reporters were combative during a press conference. Bush made an impassioned defense of U.S. foreign policy, The New York Times reported, and said it was “absurd” that many Europeans believe the United States is a bigger threat to world peace than Iran.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee

84 Comments

  1. Ed Friedemann
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Now George, When you threaten to use nuclear weapons on Iran, oil traders { The people who speculate on crude oil by buying it } get nervous about the availability of the world’s oil supply, and whether or not it will be radio-active, so the price goes up. Now I’m not going to explain what radio-active means, but trust me, it’s not a good thing.

    When you attack Iran, you can be reassured that the Iranians will fight-back, just like your daddy told you that the Iraqis would fight-back if you invaded their country { and the “terrorist” thing won’t last very long as the American People figure out that they are defending their country, ditto with Iran }.

    Crude oil catches on fire real easy, just like Ariel Sharon said: “The Arabs have the oil but we { the Israelis } have got the matches.”

    So, to make a long story short, it’s really important to make peace with the Arabs, and an expected condition of that will be that they will want a Palestinian State at the green-line with East Jerusalem as its Capitol.

    The ruling party in Israel is not going to want to do that, so that is where you need to apply force, in order to bring peace to the Middle East.

    When you stop giving money and military hardware to Israel and spread that money around Israel’s neighbors, everybody will get happy { Israelis make enough money to support themselves}.

    Crude oil will settle back to 30 dollars and Americans will be able to afford gasoline.

    And you need to get all new friends.

  2. Patriot
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone really care what left-leaning Euroweenies think of America?

  3. NoJoCo
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    That’s retorical question, Patriot.

  4. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    That will be news to Bush since I believe he’s just spent some time in Europe on one knee.

  5. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    The more the left-leaning Euroweenies dislike us, the more I am convinced that we are doing the right things.

  6. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    From the NYT link:

    “The heated exchange with reporters — under gilded chandeliers in the marble-columned throne room built by the Hapsburg emperor Franz Joseph in 1814 — came after an opening statement in which Mr. Bush emphasized how far he had come from the days in which his administration had shown disdain for Europe and its diplomacy.

    He seemed almost apologetic for the continuing existence of the prison camp at Guant?°namo Bay, Cuba, which the European Union has called on the United States to close. “I’d like it to be over with,” Mr. Bush said.”

    ———————————

    Finally, 6+ years after he takes office, President Bush gets a clue.

  7. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    The United States should by now have beheaded all the inmates at the prison camp at Guant?°namo Bay and have closed it down.

  8. RD
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    So we don’t need friends an allies, huh? The day isn’t all that far off when you’ll bite your tongue off completely for saying that. But I’ll try not to say I Told You So.

    Iraq has proven that we can’t go it alone. At least not with this pretzeldent in office. The pity is, 5 short years ago, we had the power of the world behind us after 9/11, then GW had to go screw it all up by invading and occupying Iraq. Even the few allies that joined us in that folly did so with strong reservations, and now they’re “cutting and running” (to use the rightie-tighties favorite phrase) and leaving us to fend for ourselves…which we’re doing a damn fine job of making a mess of.

    Don’t like the freedom of the leftists in Europe? Stay in America and enjoy the hatred.

    Have a nice day!

  9. Heckler
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    RD

    “Don’t like the freedom of the leftists in Europe?”

    WTFGTYM?

  10. J R
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    bush wouldn’t get a warm welcome in most of America if his audiences were not heavily screened.

  11. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Don’t like the price of gasoline in the states, go to Europe and enjoy their freedom. While you are there check the prices on everything else. I have a friend that comes from England for a visit and buy their clothes for the year.

  12. Tiny Dancer
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Dangle–

    Europeans come to the US to shop because our currency is in the toilet compared to theirs.

    Duh.

  13. Tiny Dancer
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    First, Bush is right because he has the UN and Europe behind him.

    Now, he is still right even though everybody except Britain has “cut and run.”

    I gots to hand it to youse conservatives, you may not be smart but you sure are slow learners.

  14. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    I agree, RD: if there’s one thing President Bush has proved, it’s that American military might is not sufficient for nationbuilding when the target nation is (A) not Western, and (2) any larger than about 25,000,000 citizens in population.

    And we SO need Europe right now, because without Europe’s help Iran and N. Korea are probably going to build out infrastructure for nuclear weapons.

    Insulting Europeans as Euroweenies makes about as much sense as calling your neighbors jagoffs when the block’s on fire.

  15. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    “Europeans come to the US to shop because our currency is in the toilet compared to theirs.”

    The true comparison is the wages. Duh

  16. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    False.

    The true comparison is wages per hour worked.

  17. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Tiny Dancer,Please explain why gas is cheaper here than in Europe because our dollar is worth less.

  18. RD
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Right angle,

    And who gets 6 weeks of vacation time every year?

    And who puts their citizens in a “freespeech zone” when they don’t want to hear what said citizens have to say? You call that freedom? I call it silencing, for starters. A bit Hitlerish.

    I’d love for my kids to have a European education. It’s 10 times or more better than what we offer here.

  19. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Because Europe (1) lacks natural oil resources and thus imports a far greater share of its total oil, (2) everything’s like 250 miles away, and (3) most European countries have far more resources invested in public transportation than does the US.

  20. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    (2) everythings like 250 miles away AT MOST

  21. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Flike, Answer to your argument that the price of gasoline is higher in Europe than here:Because Europe (1) lacks natural oil resources and thus imports a far greater share of its total oil, may be partly true but when the price of oil goes up, it goes up for domestic and imported. (2) everythings like 250 miles away AT MOST. So? May be a true statement but how does that raise the price of gasoline. Should lower it since they don’t have far to transport it. (3) most European countries have far more resources invested in public transportation than does the US. May be another true statement but how does that raise the price of gasoline. If it does, we should not invest another dollar in public transportation to keep the cost of gasoline low.

  22. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Wholesale prices are the same, but not retail prices.

    However, I will add this:

    (4) Taxes

    The key question, RA, is this.

    What’s the share of gasoline taxes per capita personal budget in Europe? Higher or lower than in the US?

    If it’s higher, then in this one area then I guess Europe can go to hell as a worthless place to buy gas. Of course, if your one criteria for Weenie fitness is the price of gasoline paid by said suspected Weenie, then maybe gasoline isn’t your biggest problem.

    If the share of the average European’s personal budget comprised of gasoline expense is smaller than the US, then what?

    I suspect it’s smaller, and it’s smaller because everything’s 250 miles away at most (so Europeans can afford to pay a higher retail price per unit if the total consumed is less). I suspect it’s also smaller because Europeans have the option of using public transportation instead of the more expensive alternative of cars.

  23. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    “What’s the share of gasoline taxes per capita personal budget in Europe? Higher or lower than in the US?”

    scrap “taxes”

    Should read: What’s the share of gasoline expense per capita personal budget in Europe? Higher or lower than in the US?

  24. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    My friend lives in the country about 150 miles from London. There are only small towns around and when I was there, I didn’t see any public transportation. I did see a lot of bicycles even in the larger cities. At one company that I was at while I was there, I found that a lot of the employees would ride the rail and then walk the two miles from the station or ride a cab to get the rest of the way.

  25. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Flike,Everything is higher. Food, clothing. Maybe they save enough on medical to offset the other prices but they still have to heat their homes.

  26. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    Correction, Should read everything is higher except the annual wage that they have to live on.

  27. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    I hope they have enough to spare for more taxes. The taxes would be used to bulk up European armies to convince Iran and N. Korea we’re serious (Europe and the US together).

    Because I think that thanks to President Bush we’ve done showed our cards in that hand.

    Of course, they could always take a page out of the GOP’s playbook, sell bonds (if possible) or otherwise borrow, and pass their security costs on to their children and their children.

    That’s usually irresponsible, though, imo.

  28. XXX
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    I’ve had oportunity to work with Europeans. They generally don’t own 2-3 cars per family. The walk, ride bicycles, or motor bikes. In western Europe, they don’t have the smog and air polution (note: I didn’t include eastern Europe), and they’re healthier. Of course, they may be healthier because they all have access to health care unlike here in the US where 45% of the population doesn’t have health insurance.

  29. J M Walker
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    RA,Taxes are higher in Europe because most of the countries have national health care, so everybody pays more for everything to pay for the national health care. But you neo-cons don’t want national health care because it might cut into your profits, and have you owning only three houses instead of four, driving a rolls royce instead of a bentley, fly a private two engine jet instead of a four engine one.

    Why shoot, you would even have to cut employees wages to pay for those things, but that wouldn’t bother you one bit, now would it.

    So personal and business taxes, paid for general government services as well as health insurance, is why gas is so high in europe.

    But the thread is about America’s failing respect throughout the world. Takes no brains to figure out why. Only the Bushettes seem to have a problem figuring that one out.

  30. Heywood Jablowme
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index

    Right angle–

    Don’t let basic facts stand in the way of your wrong-headed beliefs.

    Standard of living indexes, life expectancy rates, human development indexes, inequality of annual incomes, etc. etc. all show many European countries and Japan to be higher than the US.

    But I got my information from actual sources. You get it from your ass.

  31. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    I think that the foreign countries would respect us more if we stopped treating them like children by giving them an allowance whoops I mean foreign aid. It breeds contempt! All foreign aid should stop and we should only pay our fair share at the UN. If some country is in need, let them go to the public for donations.

  32. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    The standard of living in the United States is one of the highest in the world by almost any measure. On measures such as the UN Human Development Index the United States is always in the top ten, though generally ranked lower than the Scandinavian countries, Canada, Australia, and (until recently) Japan; Canada and Norway have alternately held the top spot for some time. On the Human Poverty Index the US is ranked lowest among the selection of 17 wealthiest countries, scoring low on all counts but long term unemployment.

    The United States measures better under some measures of standard of living than others. Americans are some of the wealthiest people in the world, with a very high GDP per capita.\Americans are top in the world for most material possessions. The numbers of televisions, vehicles, and other such products per person are considerably higher than in any other country. For instance, the United States has some 754 televisions for every thousand people; no other major state is even above 700, with Japan being closest at 680/1000.

    The United States also consistently has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, usually only beaten by Japan; however, the measures used to establish such a rate are controversial and may not always be comparable among countries.

  33. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Look, no American should reflexively look up to Europeans, imo.

    Sure, on average the quality of life in Europe is probably better than the US. Some of the things that make up European life, however, probably don’t amount to a hill of beans to many Americans. (art and art appreciation, cafe/bistro/pub society, more time off work, far higher unemployment that’s due to systemic economic factors, less land space, etc.)

    Let’s not forget that many Europeans are as complacently contemptuous of Americans and American foreign policy as some Americans, including most especially President Bush, are utterly if complacently confident in American Virtue *as* American foreign policy.

    Europeans largely condescend to talk to Americans, and Americans largely think there’s absolutely no problem in applying America’s best ideals to other countries, as best medicine for whatever ails you. We talk past each other a lot because of this.

    The Europeans do have resources, though. And thanks to President Bush, we need those European resources.

    But kiss Europe’s *ss? That’s a sucker’s bet.

  34. Heywood Jablowme
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    What’s your point, D’angle, other than to show you know how to cut and paste.

    The US is high but not as high as a lot of other countries.

    We’re number five! We’re number five!

    As far as GDP, yes, we’re way up there–BUT when you’ve fantastically rich people like Bill Gates, Steve Forbes, Warren Buffet, you’re going to get a skewed result, skewed to the high side.

    The averages don’t reflect the real standard of living.

  35. RD
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    The U.S. does not rank high in the amount given for aid to others when the overall wealth of the U.S. is considered. If I can find the link, I’ll post it.

    It’s sad that we use the number of TVs per household as a measure of our greatness. It just means more braindead idiots watching other braindead idiots make idiots of themselves. (Yes, I meant to repeat the term “idiot.”)

  36. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    I’m doing fine, sorry about you.I wouldn’t trade positions with any of my counter parts in any other part of the world. Have you even been there?

  37. ID
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Though it’s never a good policy to isolate ourselves by having a for-US or against-US attitude, the drive-by media is not without fault. If I lived in Europe and read the liberal-biased media w/o a balanced Fox or talk radio like we have in the US, I would be against US also.

  38. J R
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    cue blaring sirenThat sound means ID has visited us with another bit of rhetoric from the drug adddicted thrice divorced pig Rush Limbaugh!RUSHISM!”drive by media”The Europeans are lucky they do not have talk radio. It produces cliche repeating ditto drones like ID.

    We missed ya ID! Where ya been Camp ditto?

    Maybe Europeans do not like bush because he is of the same camp of people that gave us “freedom fries”, jokes about the French, remarks about the teeth of the English and so many other diplomatic endearments.

    Also Europeans unlike Americans value intelligence among themselves and in their leaders. Clearly a problem for bush.

  39. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Also Europeans unlike Americans value intelligence among themselves and in their leaders like Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Joseph Stalin and other great leaders that the US had to go and either kick their ass or save their butts.

  40. Brian
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Aside from Stalin, Mussolini and Hitler were elected by their respective populations. So I guess you’re of the opinion that American should pre-emptively kick the asses of elected leaders?

    Or maybe only elected leaders who go on a rampage of falsifying information to attack others?…maybe like the Nazis did with the German prisoners who were forced to dress as Poles and then shot at a border radio station so it appeared as if Poles had attacked Germany?

    Gee, I wonder if any US administration has recently distorted intelligence information to come to a foregone conclusion that a pre-emptive war was just the ticket.

  41. NoJoCo
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Yeah JR, just like you listen to Err America – starring the washed-up Al Franken, moveon, cLooney and his ilk, loser-boy al gore, and spew their crap here over and over again.

  42. Yahoo
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    “I’m doing fine, sorry about you.”

    Heh, pure Republicanism: “I got mine so screw you, hippy.”

    That’s what America is all about to you people, isn’t it? Getting as much as possible and not worrying about helping anybody else.

    No wonder you love Bush.

  43. Darwin'sDisciple
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    European companies are not able to sustain the generous benefits they give their employees. Many are relocating portions of their operations to countries like Mexico (e.g.,VW). Some of the European companies are risking bankruptcy. I heard a program on NPR about the psychological boost having the World Cup Soccer in Germany is providing for their citizens… they have consistently heard messages that things are going to only get worse.

    Contrast that with American companies where the trend has been to give employees less, CEOs are making obscene amonts of cash, and consumer confidence is in the toilet, despite the advertised “booming economy”.

    I wonder if there could be some value in trying to reach a happy medium between these two extremes?

    RA,Is it always a good idea to be against intelligence? Research has shown over the last century or so that intelligence does seem to confer advantages to people. The GOP, I recognize, is trying to reverse this trend.

  44. NoJoCo
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for the gross generalization there “Yahoo”. Man, what a complete dumbass.

  45. Yahoo
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    NoJo–

    what happened to the good little Catholic boy we all took pity on?

    You’re going all Ann Coulter on us here.

    The spittle of your rant is gumming up my glasses, man.

  46. outlander
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Right angle: I don’t normally cheerlead, but let me say I wish I had said that. It doesn’t take long to get tired of Euro worship.

    Maybe a few of those enamored with Europe could immigrate there and help make room for all the Mexicans.

  47. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Maybe if you had made better choices when you were younger, you would be doing fine also. I trying to help you but you won’t listen.

  48. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    DD,I agree 100%with “I wonder if there could be some value in trying to reach a happy medium between these two extremes?” but you really lost me on your next paragraph.

  49. NoJoCo
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Yahoo, I see that I have another name to add to the list.

    Neither you nor I could hold Ann Coulter’s jock strap.

  50. flike
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Now that’s funny. :-)

  51. Darwin'sDisciple
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    R.A.,

    Somehow, I am not surprised.

  52. RD
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Quickies:

    Check out ID’s email. It says it all.

    Yahoo has ‘em pegged perfectly.

    RA, no I have yet to visit Europe, although I have friends who have and a couple of have lived there. I have visited 48 U.S. states, Canada twice, Mexico twice, and Cuba. How about you?

    BTW, I’ll take Ireland. Artists don’t pay taxes. ;)

  53. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    DD, and just which party was it that limited the Central Intelligence Agencystaff and power that enabled 911?

  54. Posted June 21, 2006 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    Blame it on Clinton, blame it on Clinton!

  55. RD
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    Let’s see… We have 4 TVs and 2 cars. There are 2 of us and only one of us drives. Does that make us eligible to be counted among the priviledged?

    Oh, wait. Make that 4 vehicles, if I count the 2 wrecks my ex graciously gave me in the divorce settlement.

  56. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    I just saw on the FOX news channel that they have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I am sure that it will be on the other news channels as soon as the DNC approves the spin to put on it.

  57. gster
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    No, Bush left there , and Cheney is still here. False alarm!

  58. J M Walker
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    Right angle, true blue, or whatever moniker your hiding behind, what they found was 500 bombs filled with mustard and sarin. The problem is both have short shelf lives, like a month at most for sarin and a year at most for mustard. Seems these “WMD” were made prior to 1991. Let me see: that makes them over 15 years old. You could bathe in the stuff and be in more danger from common cold.

    There, therefore, were no WMD. Only bombs filled with useless gasses. No “spin” from the DNC is needed. The “find” speaks for itself.

    But you Bushette neocons will attempt to put your own spin on it and declare your vainglorious leader a hero. You are such a moron.

  59. k
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    “Because Europe lacks natural oil resources and thus imports a far greater share of its total oil”

    Actually gas is higher in Europe because they have much MUCH higher taxes on gas than the US does. I know because I was there for a couple of years.

  60. XXX
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Fox news reported that they found some antique degraded munitions in Iraq. they found the weapons of mass deception!!!!

    Even the government says it wasn’t what they were looking for.

  61. gster
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    X— Weapons of Mass Deception?You better give Bush an cranial Cat scan to see if he is missing anything. Be sure to specifiy a micro-scan to be effective.

  62. k
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    “Fox news reported that they found some antique degraded munitions in Iraq. they found the weapons of mass deception!!!!”

    Look hard and you will probably find something like “Property of the U.S. Army” painted on the side.

  63. J R
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    This “breaking news” about the finally found weapons of mass destruction was “broke” by Rick Santorum on the Sean Hannity show.

    HARDLY a font of credibility!

    Oh and NoJo?

    In this beknigted backwater feudalist berg Air America and the other sources of more actually fair and balanced information are not available. All we get here is the right wing spittle.

  64. Right angle
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    Posted on Wed, Jun. 21, 2006Europe backs Bush on growing nuke crisesTERENCE HUNTAssociated PressVIENNA, Austria – President Bush won solid European support Wednesday for his handling of escalating nuclear crises with North Korea and Iran

  65. Darwin'sDisciple
    Posted June 21, 2006 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    “Also Europeans unlike Americans value intelligence among themselves and in their leaders like Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Joseph Stalin and other great leaders that the US had to go and either kick their ass or save their butts.”

    I was responding to this comment on intelligence. Alfred Binet, a Frenchman, did pioneering work on the idea of IQ. And this was what I thought you might be referring to. Probably gave you too much credit.

    Your later post:”Europe backs Bush on growing nuke crisesTERENCE HUNTAssociated Press”VIENNA, Austria – President Bush won solid European support Wednesday for his handling of escalating nuclear crises with North Korea and Iran.”

    When contrasted with this statement of yours:

    “The more the left-leaning Euroweenies dislike us, the more I am convinced that we are doing the right things.”

    Please resolve the discrepencies in these off-the-wall comments, if you can. I know you can’t; sorry that you would embarrass yourself so much.

    This one here establishes that you have your head somewhere that the moon will never shine:

    “The United States should by now have beheaded all the inmates at the prison camp at Guant?°namo Bay and have closed it down.”

    Please. Pathetic. Save yourself the embarrassment of posting here again, okay?

  66. Right angle
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 1:16 am | Permalink

    DD,Save yourself.Do not read any more of my posts.They cause you too much trouble.

    Thank you

  67. Right angle
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    You can always tell when a person is losing an argument based on logic, they start calling people names, sad.

  68. lawrenceliberal
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 2:28 am | Permalink

    “You can always tell when a person is losing an argument based on logic, they start calling people names, sad.”

    Euroweenies.

    Also, you support beheading prisoners. You’re a fascist. Enough said.

  69. heartlander
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Technically, the people at Gitmo aren’t inmates, i.e. convicted criminals. They are not prisoners of war, either, which would give them specific rights under the Geneva Convention. They’re “detainees”. They have been detained for a long time, particularly when you consider that many of them have never engaged in any hostile actions against the United States. Initially two 10 year old boys were detained, and the military intended to keep them locked up indefinitely, until the NY Times reported it, and pressure was mounted to release them. It has been widely reported that the US offered money to Afghanis to turn in enemy combatants, and so money was traded, and people were arrested/captured and sent to Cuba–on the testimony of “snitches” who had no verifying evidence, but certainly had pecuniary motives, and in some cases petty personal-revenge ones as well.

    So without the American arrest-standard of probable cause, hundreds of people have spent the last 3-4 years in prison. They haven’t been subjected to either military tribunal or open-court trial because the administration was focused on other, more-pressing matters, i.e. the invasion of Iraq.

    Notably as well, it has been well-established that the vast majority of detainees who did engage in hostile actions were just bottom-tier peasants. Who were fighting under the authority of their own government, to defend their country from foreign invaders. If the Taliban has been defeated, the detainees don’t warrant tribunals, they have the right to be sent home, as is the case for all soldiers whose government has lost a war.

    If the other hand, if the Taliban hasn’t been defeated, then why did the administration lose its will to finish this conflict, but instead decide we needed to invade Iraq?

    Of course, shortly, we may have to put Iraq on the back burner before achieving “democracy”, in order to switch our primary focus to Iran or North Korea.

  70. heartlander
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    We might consider too that perhaps Europeans, whose minds aren’t being junked up by incessant war propaganda, are thinking a lot more clearly than many Americans, although in our side’s favor, most Americans polled now think the invasion of Iraq has been a serious mistake, particularly given the putative “facts” given to justify it have proven to be utterly false, and the current rationalization, democratizing Iraq, a reason that the American public would not have bought in three years ago, isn’t exactly going according to plan.

  71. Ed Friedemann
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    heartlander

    Well said…Good stuff.

    People tend to live the way they want. That’s really not a bad thing. The Amish….different strokes.

  72. heartlander
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Speaking of the Amish, I recently made a pit stop in Erie, Penn, and guys with beards who said “ye” instead of “you” and gals with mini-bonnets were eating as a group at MCDONALD’S. Before boarding a chartered bus, a couple of teenage boys smoked cigs. What sect might this be?

  73. Heckler
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    I wish that all you folks that think Europe is so hot would just move there instead of trying to drag the USA down to their level.

    Go live like sheep in a nanny state of forced mediocrity.

    Europe needs us a hell of a lot more than we need them. If we were to simply disengage from Europe and the Middle East I guarantee you that inside thirty years we’de be dragging their ass out of the frying pan just like we did in WWII.

    All hail Eurabia.

  74. XXX
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    “I wish that all you folks that think Europe is so hot would just move there instead of trying to drag the USA down to their level.”

    That old 60’s and 70’s thing…Love it or leave it.

    “Go live like sheep in a nanny state of forced mediocrity.”

    Or live like sheep in a republican state of lying, theivery, and forced warfare.

    “If we were to simply disengage from Europe and the Middle East I guarantee you that inside thirty years we’de be dragging their ass out of the frying pan just like we did in WWII.”

    And if we stay engaged in the Middle East the way we are, the Europeans will be sending foriegn aid to us, since we’ll go bankrupt.

    All hail Amerikka!

  75. Heckler
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    XXX

    Forced warfare? You mean the war we’re in that the Democrats keep voting to continue because they don’t really have the balls to vote the way they really feel?

  76. Heckler
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    XXX

    “love it or leave it”. No, if Europe is so wonderfull why don’t more people leave the USA and go there. It’s kind of like this, If Castro is so wonderfull and Cuba is so fabulous why the hell don’t more Leftists move there.

    Could it be that both places really kind of suck?

  77. ksfarmgrrl
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    DING DING DING DING DING

    “You mean the war we’re in that the Democrats keep voting to continue”

    MEME ALERT!!!!!!!

    Hehehehehehehe. Rovester meme about “whatever your weakness is, pin the same on your opponent”.

    Good god, the desperation meter must be pegged today if you think DEMOCRATS want to continue the war.

    You have even outdone your own high standards of outrageousness heck.

    The DEMS want to continue the war? heheheheheheheh. Oh no dear, it is YOUR party that want to stay the course of lie and die, lie and deny.

    I thought the dems were the cut and run party? Which is it heck? Ya cant have it both ways unless you, like the queen, can believe six impossible things before breakfast.

    Geez, first gmc says the rest of the country hardly notices the antics of fred and the kansas boe, then heck says it is democrats that are pushing to continue the war.

    Yikes. Up is down and white is black. Where DO you all get kkkarl’s talking points every day?

  78. heartlander
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Heckler makes an interesting point about we dissenters moving back to our ancestors’ homeland Europe. But unfortunately, if we accept his argument, then we have to accept the movement of native Americans now living in Mexico, moving back to their ancestors’ homeland, which is now called the United States of America.

    Here is reality. We have a massive trade imbalance with some countries, such as Venezuela, China and Japan. So they get to trade American dollars for investments in America. Apparently, we don’t use that much Saudi oil, but nevertheless, they get to buy America too. They have a lot more money than Heckler or I have.

    In another post, I suggested narrowing our horizons to take care of Americans. Heckler denigrated this by mentioning WWIII. It was called World War II, because it followed the “Great War”, later called World War I. In that war, Woodrow Wilson was elected on the promise that he would not take America into Europe’s conflict. Then he changed his mind. After the war, he personally went to Paris to negotiate a fair peace treaty. But then he caught the flu (1918-19 panemic) and, as his aides all noted, became mentally weak and passive, allowing French premier Clemenceau to foist ruinous reparation terms on the Germans, which set up WWIII.

    On the Pacific side, the Japanese studied Anglo-American colonialism, and tried to emulate this. Then they were informed, “You are yellow, you don’t get to copycat us.” So steel and oil supplies were shut down.

    In Iraq, and the rest of the major oil-reserve countries, the reality is, American bidnessmen cannot take over these resources, because if they try to steal them, then poor people will just blow up the refineries and pipelines. They aren’t terrorists, they’re just rational people who say, “If you want to rob us, we’ll just prevent you from doing this.”

    Which is why we Americans must develop energy independence, and buy oil according to terms agreeable to the people who sit in the resource. It’s really much better used as a source of amazing compounds, like polymers and drugs to save lives than as burned-up fuel to power cars and trucks anyway.

  79. ksfarmgrrl
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×1483795

    The title of this post is BUSH BOMBS IN HUNGARY

    I guess the sound of one hand clapping after his little speech was deafening.

    Please read the comments. They are WAY funnier than the actual post, which is really kinda sad….

  80. ksfarmgrrl
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    OMG, and THIS is even funnier.

    It seems little lord pissypants had himself another hissy fit speaking today because the summit folks werent on their knees in front of him.

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×1483795

    Once again, the comments are funnier than the post. Someone named KansasDem posted some REALLY funny pictures of our grim deciderer as the europeans gave him a dose of reality.

    heheheheheh. hee hee hoo hoo haa haa.

  81. Heckler
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    ksfarmgrrl

    Once again you got it backwards. One of us must be dyslexic.

  82. Heckler
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Heartlander

    “accept the movement of native Americans now living in Mexico, moving back to their ancestors’ homeland”

    Are you talking about American Indians who moved to Mexico or about the descendants of the Spaniards who conquered what we call Mexico?

  83. Ian Santiago
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Actually, Heartlander, La Raza Blanco was here in the Americas FIRST. Let the beaners deal with it!

    Does skull prove that the first Americans came from Europe?

    By Steve Connor Science Editor

    03 December 2002

    Scientists in Britain have identified the oldest skeleton ever found on the American continent in a discovery that raises fresh questions about the accepted theory of how the first people arrived in the New World. The skeleton’s perfectly preserved skull belonged to a 26-year-old woman who died during the last ice age on the edge of a giant prehistoric lake which once formed around an area now occupied by the sprawling suburbs of Mexico City.

    Scientists from Liverpool’s John Moores University and Oxford’s Research Laboratory of Archaeology have dated the skull to about 13,000 years old, making it 2,000 years older than the previous record for the continent’s oldest human remains. However, the most intriguing aspect of the skull is that it is long and narrow and typically Caucasian in appearance, like the heads of white, western Europeans today. Modern-day native Americans, however, have short, wide skulls that are typical of their Mongoloid ancestors who are known to have crossed into America from Asia on an ice-age land bridge that had formed across the Bering Strait…http://www.utexas.edu/courses/stross/ant322m_files/1stpersons.htm

    Viva La Raza Blanco!!!

  84. k
    Posted June 22, 2006 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    I love how the brainless neocons on this blog with their damn the torpodes attitude say we should just cut ourselves off from Europe and the Middle East. It shows profound stupidity and explains why they line up just to kiss the dirt shrub kicks in their faces.