Democrats aren’t happy about having been portrayed as cut-and-run cowards during a Senate debate last week about troop levels in Iraq — especially when the U.S. commander in Iraq reportedly also supports a significant troop pullout. Gen. George W. Casey proposed last week that the number of American combat brigades in Iraq decrease to five or six from the current level of 14 by December 2007, The New York Times reported.
“That means the only people who have fought us and fought us against the timetable, the only ones still saying there shouldn’t be a timetable, really are the Republicans in the United States Senate and in the Congress,” Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., said Sunday on CBS’ “Face the Nation.”
It also shows again, despite all the rhetoric, that there isn’t that much difference between the positions of most Democratic and Republican lawmakers.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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Wow, this could be the first case that I can think of in our history, when the majority of Americans trust our military more than they trust our administration.
(CBS4 News) WEST PALM BEACH Conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh was detained at Palm Beach International Airport for the possible possession of illegal prescription drugs Monday evening.
Limbaugh was returning on a flight from the Dominican Republic when customs officials found a Viagra prescription that did not bear his name. Instead, the bottle of pills had the names of two doctors on it according to the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents examined the 55-year-old’s luggage after his private plane landed at the airport from the Dominican Republic. The matter was then turned over to the Sheriff’s Office. Investigators seized the drugs – used to treat erectile dysfunction – from Limbaugh.
Limbaugh was detained for about three hours and was let go after cooperating with officials. He could be facing a second-degree misdemeanor violation if the State Attorney’s office presses charges.http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_177194808.html
****I guess this explains the three divorces****
LoL I am sure his personally had nothing to do with it. But it is not like he was trying to bring in the painkillers. I am not going to throw no stones on this one.
It IS still funny!
The phrase “cut and run”, and implying cowardice on the part of people who want to wind Vietnam II down quickly is Orwellian.
How can the dems (and some repubs) who want to end the war be cowards? If it goes on and on, are the end-the-war proponents going to be drafted and deployed to Iraq?Of course not. If they aren’t facing personal danger, how can they be cowards. This is an absurd proposition.
This propaganda also counter-implies that pro-war politicians are brave individuals. But they too aren’t going over to fight in Iraq, nor are their children, except in very rare instances.
This is not an all out war for the preservation of America. If it were, then every pro-war congressman’s adult-age sons and daughters would be serving in the armed forces, as in WWII. We wouldn’t have 150,000 troops in Iraq, we’d have millions. We’d have a draft without college exemptions.
A strong argument can be made that the administration IS NOT committed to winning the war, having undermanned it from the get-go. We’ve been there over 3 years. We won WWII in 3 and a half years, defeating two nations whose technological prowess at the outset was more advanced than America’s, and that possessed several million highly disciplined, well-trained and equipped troops, forces that were more formidable than any the world had ever previously seen. GHWB defeated Iraq, which had the largest, strongest, most well-equipped military in the Middle East, in THREE WEEKS.
In this “war”, we can’t even beat ragtag insurgents who don’t have a single tank, howitzer or helicopter to fight with. They’re using old military-surplus rifles and homemade bombs.
I don’t really mean we can’t beat them, if we needed to, but this administration has failed to marshall the essential commitment to achieve victory. It labels as “patriotic” Americans who are sitting on their duffs, including the young-adult children of pro-war politicians who have no intention of ever putting themselves in harm’s way to win this “war”.
I smell flip flop.
The r’s are co-opting the democrat’s plan that they shouted from the rooftops was cut and run. Does that make them cut and run too?
Or is it just sour grapes because the dems DID have a plan and it is a plan that 57% of the american people want? Are the republicans flip flopping and doing a 180 on their position on the war? They cant admit it so they have to trash the dems (who were right) before THEY adopt the democrats’ plans to draw down?
heheh. When Kerry and Murtha say it, it is cut and run. When dead eye dick, rummy, and their own general casey ALL say it, little it is a phased drawdown.
Too bad they arent as good at governing as they are spinning.
…and yes, I wonder if we will get a rush thread. Second offense for illegal drug possession and prescription fraud.
Let’s see how blind justice is in bush’s america. Or will we just hear “move along, nothing to see”.
I bet there will be NO rush thread. Quit whining blow about the coverage. You and your whiney pals get waaaayyy more threads.
And still no cynthia mckinney thread? It’s ok to bash her when she is “charged” but not ok to exhonorate her when she is as innocent as kkkarl rove?
Fair and balanced, just like pox news.
Limbaugh and Viagra? I pity whatever woman he had designs on!
hee hee hee jed. Seems like the “little” ED problem rush has is why he was so adamant about keeping his medical records sealed.
Hehehe. It wasnt oxy he didnt want us to know about. It was viagra. But still, to have the ’script in someone else’s name is going a little too far, no? Especially someone who RECENTLY cut a deal with a prosecutor, as noted in the firedoglake link. This could cause the rushster to need the mattster to fill in for him for a looooongg time.
Warning to righties, DONT CLICK on this link. I promise, you wont like it. heheheheheheheh
http://www.firedoglake.com/
>>Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., said Sunday on CBS’ “Face the Nation.”
Now *there’s* an expert.
>>The phrase “cut and run”, and implying cowardice on the part of people who want to wind Vietnam II down quickly is Orwellian.<<
This war is nothing like the quagmire the Democrats got us into in the 60’s. Read the news for a change, instead of the Beagle and CNN.
I love being at a party with 40, 50 and over folks. Someone mentions viagra, and there is polite laughter and the subject gets changed. But guys, maybe you dont know….
….when the girls are all in the kitchen chattting, and you all are outside a spitin’ and a scratchin’… do you know what we talk about? That’s right. YOU!
heheheheheh.
I always find it all highly amusing. You’d be surprised what your wives say after a couple of glasses of wine…..
The policy of the administration has not changed. The democrats are now saying that their plan to tie the withdrawal of troops to a specific date is no different than the administrations policy to withdraw troops as the Iraqi forces begin to take up the slack.
The administration plan is dependent on the circumstances in Iraq. The democrat plan is nothing more than a political ploy to tie troop withdrawal to a specific date, any date. The American public does not support their plan.
It is clear that the democratic plan is a ‘cut and run’ plan. And now they are running from it!
Hank
“Limbaugh and Viagra? I pity whatever woman he had designs on!”
There are a few things that are a turnoff for (almost) everybody. Thinking about your parents doing it and now there’s thinking about Rush doing it. EWWWWWW!!!!!!
Hank, what color is the sky in your little world? The public agrees with the plan that the democrats presented. The r’s changed their positions after reading these polls:***********************************
This poll was taken the week zarqawi was killed, and still shows the public in favor of withdrawing from iraq with a SET DATE
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/16/iraq.poll/
And then this:http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002726568(June 22, 2006) — The new efforts by Republicans in Congress, and in the media, to use Iraq to their advantage by branding Democrats as favoring a “cut-and-run’” policy, has received wide coverage in the past week. Often pundits, and even reporters, have suggested that this is working, because Americans are not in favor of a “hasty” withdrawal. Democrats are in shambles, they report, as they fear that proposals for setting a timetable for withdrawal put forward by Sen. John Kerry and Rep. John Murtha will prove disastrous for the party in the November elections, due to the alleged unpopularity of this stance.
This conclusion, however, flies in the face of surveys by all major polling firms, as E&P has chronicled over the past two years.
And even the troops think we should withdraw:http://www.zogby.com/NEWS/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows.The poll, conducted in conjunction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, showed that 29% of the respondents, serving in various branches of the armed forces, said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately,” while another 22% said they should leave in the next six months. Another 21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months, while 23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed.”
I dont think too many people want to follow the bush strategy of lie and die. Even the troops dont want to “heed bush” anymore.
Gee, do ya think the republicans HAD to co-opt the democrat plan when their “stay the course” afflack sunk like a stone with the voters?
But I am sure he will say “the only poll that matters is in november” and/or slam the sources. I really dont know why I bother to cite facts, when one is too many and a hundred isnt enough for the neocons.—–
Patriot,
Who do you suggest I read or listen to? Druggie Rush? Anybody on Faux News? BTW, I hear Fox’s numbers are dropping like a lead weight. Could it be because people are waking up to the fact that they haven’t been reporting all the news all the time? Just their one-sided version of it?
Nah…
Speaking of Congress…
AP Headline: Bush ignores laws he inks, vexing Congress
*…Senate Judiciary Committe Chairman Arlen Specter opened hearings on Bush’s use of bill signing statements saying he reserves the right to revise, interpret or disregard a measure on national security and consitutional grounds. Such statements have accompanied some 750 statutes passsed by Congress — including a ban on the torture of detainees and the renewal of the Patriot Act.
“There is a sense that the president has taken signing statements far beyond the customary purview,” Specter, R-Pa., said.*
It seems even some Republicans in Congress have had enough.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060627/ap_on_go_co/bush_signing_statements
Dole does Viagra commercials…Rush caught with two bottles of it crossing back into the States…
Is there something about Republican men?
KFG,
There is no sky in Hank’s world. It’s just one great big huge American flag.
Yes RD there is.I believe they all have penises.
There is a difference between a military decision and a political decision when you are talking about troop redeployment in a war.
If politicans force the redeploymnet of troops, then it’s cut-in-run, because they just want to satisfy their voter base. They really don’t care about the issue at hand so long as they can benefit politically.
If it is a military decesion, then it’s a victory and troops coming home have won the war.
Funny that the far left have been ebracing Murtha, who has gone completely senile. What a discrace that person is. He isn’t nothing but an old political hack desperate for power. He wants Nancy Pelosi’s job, and she knows it. So Murtha is just trying to stand out and gather support from the hate America leftist in our country. What a wrong move.
When you say that America is greates threat to peace in the world, you either don’t have a clue, hate America, or just political pandering to the left. What a shame! What a shame!
Joe I agree with your first two paragraphs.
The rest of your post is just tabloid trash.
I’m sorry darling,
In the links to your polls I didn’t see any reference to the ‘democratic plan’. What exactly is their plan?
It’s not cut and run in July of next year, they couldn’t get enough democratic support in the Senate for that. It’s not cut and run in December of this year, even less suppport for that. Nobody in the House supports Murtha’s cut and run as fast as we can proposal.
What is their plan now? Who gives a shit what the liberal republican weenies in Congress think or do. The administration’s plan changes only based on circumstances on the ground in Iraq and it is working.
Hank
PS Blue
>>Who do you suggest I read or listen to? Druggie Rush? Anybody on Faux News?<<
Try not to be so gullible, RD. If you’re only getting your news from the Beagle and CNN, you’re probably having trouble punching out chads in Floriduh.
>>In the links to your polls I didn’t see any reference to the ‘democratic plan’. What exactly is their plan?<<
Raise taxes and retreat.
Ah yes, joe williams, right on cue, carrying the water for his republican masters.
The swiftboating of John Murtha. White is black and up is down. He is a highly respected military man, so what do they do? Swift boat him.
http://www.themoderatevoice.com/posts/1137302880.shtml
I could post about a hundred links here, but why? If you are interested, google swiftboat + john murtha. See how many hits you get. It was predictable.
But we are amused, and we do encourage you to try again.
So nice of you to change the subject when your afflack is refuted. First you say the public does not support withdrawl, then when proven to be a lie, you switch to the “democrats have no plan” meme.
If you bothered to click the links, the democrat plan is in there, and I am not doing your homework for you.
In fact, one of the links addressed this “dems are in disarray” meme, and the “dems have no plan”.
The dem plan was posted here last week. You didnt read it? Big surprise there.
SO if I repost the plan, you will say, “gentle stupid lady, that is not a plan”. hehehe. We know how you taught nathan his “this is not a pipe” bot response.
Spin all ya want boys. The public is on to the republican tricks. They support what the democrats proposed, and casey supported. And now you wanna change that like it is your plan and has been your plan all along?
heheheheheheh. Like I said, the rove strategy. Up is down and white is black. See it for yourselves, right here.
“Funny that the far left have been ebracing Murtha, who has gone completely senile. What a discrace that person is. He isn’t nothing but an old political hack desperate for power.”
White is black and up is down. Nice swiftboating williams. Have you ever discussed your own military service? I know you could not be a yellow elephant…..
Murtha is senile?
Pretty serious allegation there Joe.
Is it senile to care about the troops?
Is he senile because he is inconvenient to bush and the continuation of this quagmire.
Did you miss the part of Phils header where he said the commander in Iraq favors significant troop withdrawls? Is HE senile too.
Good ol Joe Fluffnstuff
Joe? Please begin each of your posts with ding ding ding ding.
Phillip
Sometimes you sound like a complete ditz. There’s a world of difference between the approach of the two parties.
The admin. wants a withdrawal based upon conditions on the ground. The Democrats want a withdrawal based on an arbitrary date. GET REAL.
Dear ksfarmgrrl,
No need to post the ‘plan’. Just go to the DNC website and look at their agenda. Nothing on Iraq. Nothing on imigration reform. Nothing on National security.
Just tha same old ‘how-can-we-fool-’em’ today talking points.
That is thier plan. Never ending BS. Spit on their finger, stick it in the wind and come up with some talking point to get in front of the current public opinion parade.
The adminsitration’s plan has not changed.
Hank
PS I see you’ve decided on stupid.
JR
You sound like a ditz Most of the time.
Thank you no the invitation to “dance” Heckler. YOU always cut out before the music stops.
“based on conditions on the ground”
Uh wouldn that include the desire of the commander of the troops on the ground?
Don’t go back and actually read Phils header heckler. Come up with a more creative name to call him and me than “ditz”.
Tracy,
Yeah, but are they working? :)
Oh, wait, of course they are. But it isn’t in the way you’re thinking.
Heckler and others -
Do you not think that this “leaked” story about a planned draw-down of troops in Iraq was not tied to a date — you know that first Tuesday in November, 2006?
Heckler, Are you old enough to remember the Kissenger line “We believe that peace [in Viet Nam] is at hand” – said in 1972 before the Nov. elections? Kissenger later acknowledged that this was B.S. and political spin only.
Same story today … Anybody who can’t see that, also believes in the tooth fairy.
“The administrations plan has not changed”
They don’t appear to have a “plan” Keep on keepin on aint a plan. It’s an expensive, chest thumping, status quo mantra.
It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same stupid thing over and over even when you know the result is negative.
It aint Murtha with the mental difficulties. Joe Williams fluffy assertions aside. It is the administration that needs its “head” examined.
Patriot,
First– I didn’t know Fox even HAD news until a couple of years ago.
Second– I don’t watch TV news, except an occasional Congressional hearing on C-Span.
Third– I get my news from a variety of sources, including international.
Fourth– I rely on no ONE news source.
Fifth– I actually have read the Drudge Report. I have listened to Rush, although the latter was years ago and to save my blood pressure, I stopped. His comments about how all women should be barefoot and pregnant showed me just how much of a buffoon he really is. All blow and no show.
Funny how you guys ebrace Murtha. I knew that you guys would pull up his military service as a card that we shouldn’t critize him.
“He is a decorated military vetern”
Yeah! So was Timothy Mcveight and Lee Harvey Oswald.
It’s nice to be in Congress since the 60’s and able to keep active in the Military when you didn’t have to attend anything for the last 30 years of that service, just to get that retirement check and pay grade.
Did you forget to mention that Murtha as a co-conspiracer for bribery during the FBI Abscound sweep in the 70’s?
Did you forget that Murtha’s wife has is a lobbiest in D.C. and they banked more than 20 million dollars last year?
I’m sorry! I have no respect for that man. It doesn’t matter the party, but Murtha is a despicable human being on level of Tom Delay and always has been.
Let the infighting between him and Pelosi begin.
He doesn’t care about the troops. He cares about getting media attention.
>>”He is a decorated military vetern” Yeah! So was Timothy Mcveight and Lee Harvey Oswald.<<
Bingo. Hey, at least the left is interested in what a veteran thinks these days, though draft dodgers will always warm their cockles the most.
You haven’t seen the Democrat’s plan because every time they try to present one, the Repukes (yeah, that’s what I said) come up with some idiotic scheme, force vote on it, and nothing else is said. That’s what happens when Repukes (yeah, I said it again) have control Congress.
As for Murtha’s plan, here’s a link for you. I’m assuming About.com is neutral enough for you?
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/MurthaSpeech.htm
Road To Guantanamo
http://www.roadtoguantanamomovie.com/video/redband_large.html
“If it is a military decesion, then it’s a victory and troops coming home have won the war.”
And since this is Gen. Casey’s idea on withdrawal, would you then call it a military decision? And since Bush is downplaying this, would that then be a political decision?
Just wondering…
Murtha – My plan calls:
– To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces.
Yep….cut and run.
Wanna talk cut and run? Let’s talk about GW’s service in the ANG, particularly Alabama. Now that’s a military hero for ya! WooHoo!
Right, Patriot, just post the first line of the condensed version. How well you live up to your name.
>>just post the first line of the condensed version.<<
What’s so difficult here? The first line out of Murtha’s “plan” is to cut and run? The rest is simply fluff from the Murtha-Kerry-Gore axis of weasle.
>>Let’s talk about GW’s service in the ANG, particularly Alabama.<<
Beats Gore’s and Clinton’s service records.
Besides….your camp said military records didn’t count when Bubba was in the Oral Office. Do I detect another flip flop from your side?
heheh, well, while I was out working, I see the swiftboating of john murtha went into full swing.
You guys are so predictable. You wanna argue about murtha, pelosi, about news sources, about who is stupid, about anything but the issue. An posting attacks on us rather than the issue? Isnt that what you all accuse us of doing?
Pot meet kettle. Sooner or later the worm turns. You shoulda thought about that sooner.
The sad truth they want to avoid?
Murtha was and is right, he has the support of the military, and he has a record most of THEM would be proud of. Swiftboating is so, well, two years ago. (Still no post from williams about his own military service?)
The democrats do have a plan. The fact that hank cant find it or understand it does not mean it doesnt exist. And we have seen hank be willfully blind before. This is no different.
The republicans got caught in their own spin machine when they labeled the democrat plan as cut and run, and then trotted out the very same plan as their own. Spin all ya want, the facts remain the same.
The generals on the ground support the democrat plan. Retired generals support the democrat plan. The troops support the democrat plan. The public supports the democrat plan.
Lie and die is not working any better than stay the course. The american people know this. Even the TROOPS know it. They want a CHANGE in course, not stay the course. Or lie and die.
Post some links to facts to refute this, or continue to act like the spinning cry babies you are.
I mean who you gonna believe? The facts or rush? Or those lying eyes of yours? heheheheheheheheh
Phillip,
Wear that “ditz” term proudly!
http://ditzychix.com
“>>Let’s talk about GW’s service in the ANG, particularly Alabama.<<
Beats Gore’s and Clinton’s service records.”
OMG. Patriot, PLEASE post supporting facts for that outrage.
Hee heee heeeeeee.
Your level of desperation must be REALLY high to say that gw’s military service was better than gore’s? Heheh. Better than Kerry’s too I suppose?
Swiftboating. You guys never learn do you?
Heckler, you have already been embarassed on three threads about the swiftboat lies. Patriot, do you want the same? heheh or are you the same?
hee hee hee.
Waiting on your supporting links patriot. I think you barked yourself up a tree with that statement. Heheh. Jumped the shark.
But then, too much swiftboat kookaide will do that to ya!
Patriot,
Gore served…actually enlisted in the army, although he was personally against the war.
“He served for four months with the 20th Engineer Brigade in Bien Hoa and for an another month at the Army Engineer Command in Long Binh.”
“Besides….your camp said military records didn’t count when Bubba was in the Oral Office. Do I detect another flip flop from your side?”
MY camp? ROFL
Whose “camp” was it that didn’t produce records…say a DD214?
Yeah, and didnt both hank and flike say the first one to call names is a loser? And now heckler and patriot are reduced to “oh yeah, well yer a ditz!” I wonder do they stomp their little cloven hoofs when they have a hissy fit?
Hehehe. I see they ALL have trouble following their own advise when the chips are down.
November is gonna be SO MUCH FUN!!
I’m proud to see the 4th of July came early this yer. I’m going to get a comfortable seat and watch the show!
I don’t recall Bubba starting a war, invading a sovereign nation which did not include an exit plan that he blasted the previous president for same.
Yep, you’re right. Clinton didn’t serve. He was openly against the war in Vietnam. I guess he was the only one who was. And just where was he? Oh, yeah, he was a Rhodes scholar, a know nothing. Meanwhile GW’s daddy was buying sonny’s education.
BTW, what was Bubba’s draft number?
>>Gore served…actually enlisted in the army, although he was personally against the war.<<
Gore carried typewriters when Bush was flying fighter jets. And we know what Clinton was doing.
But remember….military service didn’t count when Draft Dodger was in the Oral Office.
Yeah, gore was in THE ARMY. In the war. In vietnam.
And shrub? Oh, the air national guard. At home. In texas and alabama working on a political campaign.
How many combat missions did gw fly? None? How much overseas service did he do? none?
And he was stripped of his pilot qualifications because he refused, twice! to undergo the physical required to remain a pilot.
Yeah, I think we should follow this trail on this thread. Another chance for patriot to prove his superiority.
Wanna post some more about gw’s service records? hehehe. I cant wait….
…for him to say CLINTON DID IT!!!!!!!
The ultimate fallback position for wingnuts with nothing to stand on but afflack.
RD! You forgot to add that his duty in Vietnam was a military journalist. It’s in the same cut-in-paste of the wikipedia entry about it, but you left that out.
Again! Wikipedia being used, but when I use it, it’s shunned by the Democrats and leftist on this blog as not a credible source.
Look! You guys like Murtha because he speaks your langauge. I personally see him as a crook. When you go to Congress with nothing and end up being a multi-millionaire along with your entire family, then you used Congress to personally gain extreme wealth.
Most of all memebers of Congress are not millionaires unless they entered Congress already being one. The few that enter Congress with nothing then end up being one of the wealthiest members of the House, that speaks volumns. That is Jack Murtha. He’s been on my bad list long before he became in the spot light with this Iraq and hate America speech.
Mostly Democrats benefit from the system, with Reid, Boxer, Fienstien, Daschles, and etc. who have families members, their children and spouses being multi-millionaire lobbyiest, when they weren’t anything or had any creditals before they had the Congressional connection.
Democrats! A Culture of Corruption!
>>Yeah, gore was in THE ARMY. In the war. In vietnam.
Bush flew fighter jets….Clinton, well, cut and run.
Remember when military service was not a prerequisite for holding public office? That’s when Draft Dodger was in the Oral Office.
Now…about Murtha’s cut and run plan in Iraq….
WASHINGTON — A majority of Americans say Congress should pass a resolution that outlines a plan for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq, according to a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday. Half of those surveyed would like all U.S. forces out within 12 months.The poll finds support for the ideas behind Democratic proposals that were soundly defeated in the Senate last week. An uptick in optimism toward the war after the killing of terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi earlier this month seems to have evaporated.
. . . .
Bush’s approval rating is at 37%. After hitting the low point of his presidency at 31% in May, it rose to 38% in mid-June. His standing, which slipped below 40% in February, hasn’t rebounded above that level since then.
The percentage of Americans who say the president has “a clear plan for handling the situation in Iraq” has dropped to 31%, a new low. That’s still higher than the 25% who say congressional Democrats have a clear plan for Iraq.http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-06-26-iraq-poll_x.htm
That is why we don’t conduct wars based on popular vote.
All wars have not been popular. Even the Revolutionary War, very few supported it. The vast majority of colonist wanted to stay with England.
Most people are afraid of conflict. That is the psychology behind it.
“When you go to Congress with nothing and end up being a multi-millionaire along with your entire family, then you used Congress to personally gain extreme wealth.”
OMG, rolling with laughter here. And didnt the WE just publish the personal finance reports of both bush’s senator (roberts) and god’s senator (brownback)?
They both started with nothing too, and are multimillionaires. Yes, I know, sam has his wife’s family money, but look at how the wealth of BOTH of these guys has grown while they were in congress. Look at tanker todd’s first reports and then look at his current. Rolling with laughter.
You can do research, right?
heheheheh. just keep posting joe. Remember the first rule of holes. Stop digging.
“Most of all memebers of Congress are not millionaires unless they entered Congress already being one.”
Wanna post the research to back that up? Or is it like RD’s request for backup on the 97%?
Take yer time. We’ll wait for you to produce the facts.
Good one esod. I like this part:
“The poll finds support for the ideas behind Democratic proposals that were soundly defeated in the Senate last week. An uptick in optimism toward the war after the killing of terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi earlier this month seems to have evaporated.”
But USA TODAY and gallup are such well known liberal tinfoil groups…..
Actually KSF! Both Brownback and Roberts had assets that made them on paper of millionaires, because THEY OWN FARMS.
Did you also forget to add our congressional deligation in the House. How none of them were millionaires? Did you forget that? Did you?
Talk about cherry picking and having no substance. You’re embarrasing yourself.
Show us the proof joe. Produce their statements when they went in and then produce them now. What was their net worth when they went in, and what is it now? Yes, please include the rest of the kansas delegation. Like tanker todd.
YOU are the one who isnt posting sources or facts, just your opinion.
…and notice how the subject has changed again?
They lost on the cut and run bullshit, they lost on the republicans taking on the democrat plan, they lost on every point, and what do they do?
heheheh. Change the subject. Now of course, the subject is whose um, military service is bigger.
And still they say clinton did it, and still williams is posting no facts, just opinion, and still…
…americans are dying in iraq. For a war that was undertaken because of lies. Lie and die.
No one is buying it but the 30%ers.
>>They lost on the cut and run bullshit<<
The topic was Murtha’s cut and run plan in Iraq. Have you read it? First part was, well, cut and run.
It’s part of the Murtha-Kerry-Gore axis of weasle.
Also, post the lie that the war is based on. Remember, faulty intelligence is not a lie.
….you have the floor.
Bush flew fighter jets? ROFL
KFG, note Patriot’s change of direction, from service records to monetary worth. That’s a combination of #2 and #32.
>>For a war that was undertaken because of lies.<<
….cherished left-wing myth.
Post the lie that the war was based on. Provide credible evidence that Bush lied. Remember, relying on faulty intelligence is not a lie.
Your say….
Claim faulty intelligence all you want.
Anybody watch the Senate hearings last night? :)
>> note Patriot’s change of direction, from service records to monetary worth.<<
RD, try to keep up. I’ve never posted about monetary worth.
>>Claim faulty intelligence all you want.<<
Can you help KFG? She’s having a difficult time coming up with a credible source backing up her claim that Bush lied about Iraq.
YES RD, YES.DING DING DING.I’ve got a feeling there’s a BUNCH of those Repugnits who will need viagra after the next election!!
ELECTILE DYSFUNCTION, –HA.
Or hehehe, as girl says.
Point Patriot
YOU didn’t redirect the thread Joe Williams did. But you sure jumped aboard and helped!
I say again, Phils header says even the commander in Iraq favors substantial troop withdrawls. In military parlance that is not “cutting and running”.
bush has no plan. he never did. Why ya think Colin Powell bailed out on him?
The dem “plans” involve phased withdrawls or redeploment. As such they would seem to be in line with the commander in Iraq, the troops, the public and just about everybody but bush and a handful of fools.
I’ll betcha’ that’s what Pat had in the little bottle he carries too.
So you define the terms? Faulty intelligence is not a lie? When bush lies it is all a “little” mistake?
“this is not a pipe…”
Relying on faulty intelligence is not a lie? Hehehe. nice spin, but I’m not striking at that lure. I can see the fishing line from here.
How about the lie that saddam was going to show us a mushroom cloud instead of a smoking gun? How about rummy saying we would be greated with flowers and roses and as liberators?
How about the lies on how long the war would take? That the war would take three weeks three months, but not three years? heheheh How about the lies about how much it would cost.
How about the lie that saddam had WMD? Faulty intelligence? Yeah, faulty because they IGNORED it.
How about the yellowcake lie. THAT wasnt faulty intelligence. How about the Downing Street Memos?
Of course, you could always go to bushlies.com and get the full story. heheh
But that would bring you full circle, like a dog chasing its tail, that the sources are no good.
Hee hee hee. Fun to watch them spin and defend the indefensible.
Bushco never lies. Cherished right wing myth. Patriot, you sure are sounding a lot like nathan. Saying “prove bush lied” is his trick. And then, no matter how many pipes ya show him, he just says “this is not a pipe..”
It is just faulty intelligence. ROLLING.. he heee heeee…. too funny. Nathan, you are busted. Patriot switchs directions like he does too.
Show the cut and run part of Murtha’s plan. Show how “phased withdrawl” is different. The date certain part? hehehe. That is for BUSH, not the insurgents. We know if he is not given a date certain, the war will go on…. and on… and on…
We will still be having parties for nathan on his tenth deployment in the year 2010.
The republican plan, the one that replaced “lie and die” sounds a lot like the “new and improved” plan the republicans got from the dems after the polls showed the public supported withdrawl.. within 12months… just like those dems proposed. With a date certain. But of course USA Today and Gallop are not to be trusted.
This is not a pipe.
It seems LIE AND DIE isnt so popular anymore. Want the scoop on bush and his little truthiness problem?
http://www.bushlies.com
Of course, they will cry foul…..
>>YOU didn’t redirect the thread Joe Williams did. But you sure jumped aboard and helped!<<
I never made a single post with regard to monetary worth! The thread did drift to service records of certain politicians, in which I participated.
But back to the topic at hand…has not Bush decided to let the commanders in Iraq determine how long our troops stay on the ground?
That’s just good sense…let the generals run the war instead of the politicians.
>>Relying on faulty intelligence is not a lie?<<
It’s not.
Now, after all your huffing and puffing….got something to back up your assertion that Bush lied about Iraq?
Patriot, I had no idea you could back pedal so fast.
Nathan, we have been through this with you on multiple threads. If you think bush never lies, google bush + lies.
Of course, they will all be unacceptable sources. Notice how he added that in? No faulty intelligence and he gets to say which sources count?
heheheh. Classic nathan.
>>Show the cut and run part of Murtha’s plan.<<
It was the very first part of his “plan”. Have you read it?
“That’s just good sense…let the generals run the war instead of the politicians.”
Yep, seems the democrats, general casey, 57%of the public and even republicans agree. Even with the 12 month date certain.
Please google bush + lies and then come back and tell us how a pipe is not a pipe. Like has happened so many times here…..
>>Patriot, I had no idea you could back pedal so fast.<<
Another wasted opportunity to back up your assertion.
Care to try again? With a credible source that Bush lied to get us into a war?
Remember, faulty intelligence (and that’s another topic altogether) is not the same thing as blatantly lying to the American public.
Post it nathan. Show us all how stupid we are.
Did you google bush + lies?
If not, no more questions.
Did you go to http://www.bushlies.com?
If not, no more questions.
>>Post it nathan. Show us all how stupid we are.<<
It appears it’s been *you who has been lying about the President and the war.
….care to try again?
I share and have shared your suspicions kfg……
>>If not, no more questions.<<
Cut and run. No credible sources to back up the lies your side has been saying about the President and the war.
Lemme know when you’ve found something.
“The swiftboating of John Murtha.”
Poor ol’ Jack! In the liberal left-wing whacko world view swiftboating means lying about a liberal veteran. If you dare to have a problem with poor ol’ Jack’s cut and run plan, or if you think that it’s dispicable to accuse a platoon of Marines of killing innocent women and children in cold blood even though the facts haven’t been released yet, then you don’t have to actually defend the senile old pantload. You don’t have to rationalize his completely insane comments. You don’t have to reconcile yourself with any of the facts. All you have to do is play the “swiftboating” card.
Well lets review the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, shall we? They are group of over 150 decorated Viet Nam veterans that stated the truth about the many lies Kerry has told about his military record.
Swiftboating is actually telling the truth about a democratic , treasonist war protester.
Hank
>>Swiftboating is actually telling the truth about a democratic , treasonist war protester.<<
….which explains all the hand-wringing from the left about swiftboating.
Just a sample of bushlies….
“Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at [past nuclear] sites.”Bush speech to the nation ‚Äì 10/7/2002Iraq is rebuilding nuclear facilities at former sites.Not TrueTwo months of inspections at these former Iraqi nuclear sites found zero evidence of prohibited nuclear activities thereIAEA report to UN Security Council ‚Äì 1/27/2003
“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”State of the Union Address ‚Äì 1/28/2003Iraq recently sought significant quantities of uranium from AfricaNot TrueThe documents implied were known at the time by Bush to be forged and not credible.
Want to see a whole CHART of bush lies?
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/22_lies.html
P.S. I think nathan did click. The first five lies are all about intelligence. Gee, do ya suppose that is why he wanted to exclude intelligence lies and manipulation? And why he added the “credible sources” thing as an afterthought?
We already saw today that nothing is credible for patriot/nathan than fux news and rush the drug offender.
Rig the game and then declare victory? Must be a family value I don’t understand.
In a December 2003 speech at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York City, the Massachusetts Democrat said he feared that “in the run-up to the 2004 election, the administration is considering what is tantamount to a cut-and-run strategy,” notes Townhall.com writer Tim Chapman.http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50755
>>We already saw today that nothing is credible for patriot/nathan than fux news and rush the drug offender.<<
Nope. You’re simply trying to prove my point….we blundered our way into Iraq because of faulty intelligence.
Your side has been lying about it ever since.
Hank and Nathan BOTH saying “this is not a pipe”….
heheh. go ahead boys. declare victory. If anyone had any doubts about your posts, this should clear it up.
White is black and up is down. When you show them proof? White is black. That isnt proof. They just repeat it until we tire, then they do a victory dance. heheheh.
Hank defends swiftboating, even after the posting of over 50 swiftboat lies.
Hank defends ann coulter and nathan sleeps with a signed copy of her book.
I think that says all we need to know about your character boys.
But please, deny the lies, deny the truth, do like bush…
lie and deny
It works as well for you as it does for him.
…and right angle comes in to change the subject. Another nathan nic?
Still waiting for you to post murtha’s cut and run plan….
Please show us how stupid we all are. Hank you can help nathan too. We wont call it cheating.
>><a href=”http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/22_lies.html<http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/07/22_lies.html<<
Got something besides obscure, left-wing news sites with no authors listed?
Just curious.
HOWLING with laughter. What did I tell ya? NO SOURCE but rush or fox would do.
I guess you would have to know you were being humiliated before you could be ashamed.
ROFLMQAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Still waiting on you Nathan to post murtha’s cut and run. Hell, I’d settle to a link right now.
You can post links, right patriot?
KFG – Your friend RD gave this link to Murtha’s cut and run plan.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/MurthaSpeech.htm
Notice on the second page, the very first point.
The rest is straight out of the Murtha-Kerry-Gore axis of weasle.
Now…got anything credible about the President lying about the war, or were you lying about the President again?
>>What did I tell ya? NO SOURCE but rush or fox would do.<<
Geez, you can’t even give me a CNN source! All you’ve got are smoke and mirrors from obscure left-wing web sites…the last one wouldn’t even name the author.
Now….got anything to back up your assertion that Bush lied about the war, or were you just lying about Bush?
How does the boston globe strike ya? Too liberal no doubt.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/03/06/bush_lies_and_videotape/
And a list of the top 40 bush lies can be found at http://www.bushlies.net
And the top 20 lies from amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1883991943/002-4131432-6744827?v=glance&n=283155
But like I say, one is too many and a hundred’s not enough.
Stop digging nathan.
Your attempt to redirect will not succeed Nathan.
Murtha favors a change in the status quagmire. In this he is in agreement with the Commander of the troops in Iraq.
Is the Commander in Iraq also insane?
Patriot, er nathan, er whatever nic you are today….
….you peed all over CNN earlier. Why would I post it now?
Still waiting on your murtha post too.
>>How does the boston globe strike ya? is a start. And a book on Amazon.com.<<
Geez…I was hoping for something with a little meat on it…you know, from CNN that Bush got caught red-handed telling a lie. Not a blunder in relying on intelligence.
You don’t have much to back up you lie about the president. Just obscure left-wing web sites, an editorial in a newspaper and a book sold on Amazon.com.
I dont see you refuting any of the lies just the source. Wanna point out how the sources are wrong? Or just more ad hominems and name calling?
Typical right wing. Kill the messenger if you dont like the message. Blame the media. Yeah, it is THEIR fault we went to war based on lies.
Nathan, I know it is hard for you to accept that you are being deployed for a liar to a war based on lies. No one blames you for that.
But you dont have to blame us either. Are you going to melt down here too? Because I promise you, no one wants to see that again.
We feel sorry for you. Really.
I’m tired of chasing tails with you. Please continue to spin in a circle without me. Call when you post the murtha cut and run.
Patriot, sorry, that should’ve been Joe.
>>….you peed all over CNN earlier. Why would I post it now?<<
I’m just curious if you all can find something from a source the DNC considers gospel that Bush actually told a bald-faced lie about the war!
But let me get back to the Murtha plan. I watched it the night he presented it. I heard what he said. The plan, as you describe it, is a VERY condensed form, stressing the safety of our troops first and foremost. It involved a slow deployment, and would not leave Iraq vulnerable to others.
But you wouldn’t know that.
>>Wanna point out how the sources are wrong?<<
KFG…wanna give something credible?
It’s time to face the facts….you’ve got nothing of substance to back up your claim that Bush lied to get us into a war. All you’ve been able to produce is obscure web sites, editorials and books sold over the internet.
Since CNN is a respected news source in your world, give me something from them that would indicate Bush actually lied instead of blundering on faulty intelligence.
If an entire book devoted to the lies of bush is in publication and that book is in ANY WAY proveably unfairly defamatory of bush, I would think there would have been legal action…….
Lack of that suggests that the book must be accurate.
>>If an entire book devoted to the lies of bush is in publication and that book is in ANY WAY proveably unfairly defamatory of bush, I would think there would have been legal action…….<<
Would that apply to the Swiftboaters, too?
You may be making progress Nathan.
You now seem willing to retire from the position that Iraq had WMDs. Santorums little desperate stunt last week aside.
Now you are prepared to call the lauch of this war a “blunder”? Are you not here then actively advocating “blundering” on? In for a penny in for a pound?
>>You may be making progress Nathan.<<
Sorry….I’m not Nathan.
>>Now you are prepared to call the lauch of this war a “blunder”? Are you not here then actively advocating “blundering” on?<<
JR – I believe the basis for going into Iraq was based on faulty intelligence, not the schemes of a lying, oil-grabbing rich kid from Texas.
Hindsight being 20/20, we should have never gone to war in Iraq. But pulling out now would be an even bigger blunder.
My opinion. What’s yours?
By the way, I’m fairly new here. I’m not Nathan. I don’t know who he is, but I take it his views are similar to mine.
Would the statements and testimony of the former CIA Iraq Intelligence Coordinator from 2000-2005 be good enough?
Dear ksfarmgrrl,
Why don’t you just pick one, or maybe two of your so-called-swiftboat-lies and we’ll have a civil debate about it. Since I’m a gentleman I’ll let you pick.
Hank
According to Paul Pillar, the aforementioned former coordinator:
There was non-use of intelligence & intelligence assessments in the decision to go to war in Iraq.
NIE (National Intelligence Estimate) on Iraq was NOT requested by anyone in the administration, but by members of the Senate.
The first request from any administration policy maker wasn’t made until about a year into the war.
>>Would the statements and testimony of the former CIA Iraq Intelligence Coordinator from 2000-2005 be good enough?<<
I’d like to read about it if you can provide a link or reference.
Pillar said the problem was there was no relationship between the policy makers and the intelligence community. It was “broken.”
Of the 3 major problems, the request for information was part of the first problem.
Here’s the NIE assessment:
Iraq was several years away from nuclear weapons, not on the verge, as Cheney told us.
Saddam was unlikely to use WMDs against the U.S. or give them to terrorists, except in the EXTREME case of the U.S. trying to overthrow his regime, as in an invasion.
There was no alliance or even close to one between Saddam and Al Qaeda, in fact, it was more the opposite.
Regarding Post saddam Iraq:
The political culture would not provide fertile ground for democracy and foretold a long, difficult and turbulent transition.
A Marshall type plan effort would be required to restore Iraqi economy, despite the oil.
The forecast was a deeply divided Iraqi society, with the significant chance that sectarian and religious groups would engage in violence unless occupying forces contained them.
Occupying forces would be directly attacked (guerilla warfare tactics) unless security was established and on the road to prosperity in the first weeks and moths after the fall of Saddam.
War & occupation would boost political Islam, increase sympathy for terrorist objectives and make iraq a magnet for extremists throughout the Middle East.
2nd problem:
Intelligence was turned upside down to justify decision already made.
Raw reporting…contradiction of intelligence community “purchases of uranium ore.”
The administration was more frequent with links to Saddam and Al Qaeda and a special unit (in the WH) was created that was devoted to that effort.
Admin disregarded intelligence.
We have already debunked the swift boat lies in three threads. Not doing it again. I can post a link to the bone dig of those threads. The arguments havent changed.
>>Pillar said the problem was there was no relationship between the policy makers and the intelligence community. It was “broken.”<<
Then it wasn’t so much faulty intel as it was the administrations’ willingness to communicate with the intel community? Okay, I can see that.
But do you think Bush out-and-out lied to the American public about the reasons we went to war? Do you think it’s really over oil? I don’t.
So what do you think we should do now? Just curious.
3rd Problem:
Everything was reduced to blaming intelligence community.
Intelligence analysts were worked, not with the “group” (administration) wanting objective analysis, but worked in environment where the policy had already been set, analysis had to justify it, and welcomed analysis that confirmed policy, rejected/spurned that which didn’t. Cherry picking.
The analysists ended up using biased assessments because draft assessments that did not lean toward admin’s policy did not make it to the table. Those that did, made it and were used.
Patriot, that’s Pillar’s take on it, and he was adamant. Not a happy man.
What do I think? Does it matter? What can be done? Well, hopefully investigations of this, despite Pat Roberts’ feet dragging, will provide some answers. After that, who knows? To be honest, I’m not sure I want to think about what might happen, when all is said and done.
http://c-span.org/
Look for: Recent ProgramsSenate Cmte. Hearing on Iraq Pre-War Intelligence (6/26/06)
or here’s the direct link:
A friend thought you’d like this streaming media. Play it now with your RealPlayer:http://switchboard.real.com/player/email.html?PV=6.0.12&&title=Senate%20Democratic%20Hearing%20on%20Pre%2DWar%20Iraq%20Intelligence&link=rtsp%3A%2F%2Fvideo.c%2Dspan.org%2Fproject%2Fter%2Fter062606%5Fsenate.rm%3Fmode%3Dcompact
Here ya go hankie. No need to bore everyone with a rehash of the swiftboat liars. We already kicked your butt on that one.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2006/05/rumsfeld_can_ru.html#comments
I’m no longer interested, but if anyone else is, knock yerself out. Hankie can relive his glory days of defending the swiftyliars.
>>A friend thought you’d like this streaming media.
Thanks RD…I’ll take a look, though it’s kinda long. I should probably subscribe to cable TV one of these days.
Nice dodge darling,
Truth is, there was a bunch of controversy over the Swift Boat Vets, imagine, a bunch of veterans daring to participate in the presidential election process! And against the Great John F. (he served in Viet Nam) Kerry!
Imagine, the nerve of a bunch of veterans complaining about a lying, treasonist, war protesting pantload from Massachusetts! Did they not realize that was John F. Kennedy’s State!
Oh well, I guess you’re not a real veteran with rights to participate in the process unless you have lied about your buddies and protested the war. Maybe merely throwing your medals away would purify you enough to participate.
Hank
Patriot,
I sent that link to myself first, so I’d have it. I’m my own best friend. *grin* No harm or foul intended, I promise.
So, Hank, if Nathan came home and told you about atrocities that he saw committed while deployed, you’d just say it’s okay?
Somehow, I think you would.
Dear LBR,
Do you want to know where we learned how to hate? Take a look at Hank’s 3:57 p.m. post. Y’all are our best teachers!
The truth is that quest to make Iraq a functioning multicultural democracy was doomed from the start. America WILL “cut and run”, the only question is when that will happen. The only thing for shrub to do now is play “tough guy” and stay the course, mainly for the sake of his own ego. The cutting and running will be left to the poor schmuck who happens to get elected in ‘08!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
I don’t know, Ian. The pressure is mounting on W. No matter what idiotic non-binding whatever Congress enacts to make this all look good, a lot of people aren’t buying into it anymore. He’s running out of Generals who agree with him. In fact, he’s running. Period. All the bs he’s been spouting for the last few days is Karl’s effort to turn all the latest negatives to positives and it isn’t working so well.
But time will tell. I’m just waiting to see what wins out…time or body count and taxes.
Dear RD,
Unlike the lying pantload traitor Kerry, my boy is an honorable man. By the time he got home to tell me personally of any “atrocities that he saw committed while deployed”, I would definitely believe him.
Furthermore, because of the Marine code of honor he would have already reported them to the chain of command and the proper action would have been taken.
When pressed about his so-called-atrocities Kerry grabbed sand. He claimed he actually didn’t see them himself. Coming home as a Lt. in the Navy and claiming you knew about atrocities that you did nothing about is a court marshall offence.
We had men that risked their lives and died over there to prevent innocent civilians from being killed. Kerry was beyond dispicable to dishonor them with his lies.
But thanks for asking RD.
Hank
“All the bs he’s been spouting for the last few days is Karl’s effort to turn all the latest negatives to positives and it isn’t working so well.”
I wondered if this was what Bush was doing also. You know, the posturing about the NY Times story that was really a non-story, etc. Politics trump policy all the time with this adminstration. Recall when the Repubs moaned constantly about Clinton’s continual political campaign?
Jimmy Kimmel, last night, in his monologue mentioned Fox News falling viewership and the possible tie to the plunging Bush approval ratings. In this routine, he showed Fox’s new approach of “backing away” from Bush. It went something like “Bush is a great president, but is greater than Lincoln?” – it was hysterical.
Aw, Hank, if only you’d simply answered without the Kerry comments, but… Whatever. I appreciate your honesty and taking the time to answer.
I watched the numbers pulled for the lottery and prayed the boys I knew wouldn’t have to go. Some did, of their own accord. I lost friends in Nam, Hank, not only through death but through death of their soul. I’ve been to the Wall and have the rubbings to prove it. And I know you feel you’re justified in saying what you do about Kerry. But, damn it, somebody had to say it and nobody was.
I hope the majority of Americans see right through the Repubs political ploying that they have done recently. (Gay Marriage, Flag burning, cut and run slogans, side show Rick Santorum)
If not Im concerned for the general intelligence of most Americans.
If the Dem’s propose it, it’s cut and run, the Repubs. will spin it as “Standing down, so Iraqi’s can stand up” or some such bull shit. Then after the elections they’ll institute a draft and escalate the war.
Actually it was Rumsfeld who decided to “cut” at the outset, when the best minds of our military said we’d need at least 250,000 troops, and Rummy said, “Cut that in half, and see what you can do.” The military brass wanted to WIN. We have no idea what Rummy wanted. So if the administration decided to cut, and the dems say, “let’s run”, what does this fiasco mean for America?
According to Hank, My Lai never happened because it was only brought to light by Ron Ridenhour, who heard about it secondhand from members of Charlie Company who took part.
Colin Powell investigated the initial complaint in country and concluded that relations between Vietnamese civilians and US soldiers couldn’t be better.
It’s all in the history books, but don’t expect these “proud to be stupids” to read about it.
Cut and run Democrat. Quite a phrase. Remember how the Republican party used Michael Moore as a device to sort the Democrats into “for or against” camps?
This link proposes using the queen bitch, Ann VD, to do the same thing to the Republican party:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Ann_Coulter_Republicans_0622.html
I don’t think Bush lied us into a war. I just think he’s dumber than a bag of sand and stumbled willingly into war.It’s sad when a political party glorifies a blithering moron.
DN,
I don’t remember mentioning My Lai.
In fact, I don’t remember Kerry the war hero/war protester ever mentioning My Lai eiter. He found it muce easier to make up atrocities and make people think that atrocities were common place, not isolated incidents.
I’ve read the history books. I’m in a few.
Hank
I’ve read the history books. I’m in a few.
Hank
Posted by: Hank PriceCare to cite them narcissism-boy?I thought not…
Blind Man’s Bluff.
So, did Bush lie about WMD’s in Iraq, or did he believe faulty intelligence, or did he fail to read the reports that were given to him, or was he just so sure he was right that he refused to listen to anything that contradicted him? And why does it matter? Here we are, stuck in a shithole up to our necks, and we’re arguing whether Bush was dishonest or incredibly stupid! How about a discussion on how we get out of this mess smelling like a rose?
We’ve been given every reason in the world for invading Iraq except the correct and obvious one: we went in to control the oil.
If you control the oil, you control the price.
The price has gone up 300 percent since we’ve been there, duh.
And who profits from that? The big oil men who run the Republican party of which Bush, Cheney and half the administration are members of.
http://www.gregpalast.com/was-the-invasion-of-iraq-a-jewish-conspiracy
oil=money=power
Where did TruthinTheFaceofLies go? I have more for that nitwit.
Hank
Bush=lies=constant and multiple wars
Hank, check your e-mail.
I’ve made past comments about our being in Iraq for the oil. At a larger level, it is about controlling the entire world economy. If we left Iraq tomorrow, you would have a civil war and some kind of strongman or plutocratic takeover. Who would benefit? China. China has shrewdly not taken sides in any of the Middle Eastern controversies. And, it has a lot of money. It could not only get favored access to Iraqi oil, but Irani oil as well. It could pay for a pipeline for Caspian Sea oil to be moved to the Persian Gulf.
China’s industrial development has relied on Western investment. But if its energy supplies aren’t dictated by the West, it gains much more power than those who have shepherded its industrialization want it to have. So a major part of the Iraq War objective is to regulate China. (Of course those who control the oil flow will make vast amounts of money in this.) The War in Iraq is a component of an interdependent global economy scheme, in which national identity is pitched to the masses to manipulate them, but is superceded, in behind closed doors, by transnational management of natural and human resources.
Will this scheme work? Only time will tell. Maybe Jesus will come back in our lifetimes when it fails. Or maybe he won’t, and humanity will have to contend with the collapse of civilization and live in primitive conditions for a long time. Or maybe humanity and other macrofauna won’t survive, and it will be up to lower organisms to slowly evolve into higher organisms. Or maybe lower organisms won’t be able to do this. Or maybe the scheme will work and humans will wisely manage the planet.
So, Hank,
You are admitting then that atrocities did take place in Vietnam by our side?
Yes or no.
Dear Bob S.
Yes.
Hank
Then it’s not that Kerry testified that he knew of atrocities occuring in Vietnam that makes you mad–since you agree with him on that.
It’s that you think he somehow lied about atrocities in Vietnam that makes you mad.
But why would somebody lie about something that doesn’t benefit them and only makes them a target of people like O’Neill and Nixon and the Swift Boat crew?
Here’s a guy who obviously had political ambitions from day one. Wouldn’t he have been a lot better off coming back as the straight-arrow soldier with a chest full of medals, saying nothing about what he saw and heard?
Also, in case you’re wondering, TruthintheFace is not me.
I’m not here to make people mad.
Hey Bob,
Yea, I know. TruthInthewhatthehellever is really Brad. AKA ProudLib, AKA TrueBlue. I don’t know why I respond to him, he’s the worse sort of troll.
Hank
I’ll respond to your other post later. I could write a book answering your questions. Since I think they are very good, sincere questions I’ll take a little time and try and do them justice.
Hank
Thanks, Hank.
I look forward to it.
Hello! great idea of color of this siyte!