The killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi won’t end the violence in Iraq, but it is sure good news. The leader of terrorists in Iraq has been responsible for hundreds of bombings, kidnappings and beheadings, and he has shown again and again that he doesn’t care whom he kills — innocent women and children, Americans, Arabs, Sunnis or Shiites. But, as President Bush said this morning, “now Zarqawi has met his end, and this violent man will never murder again."
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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212 Comments
It’s OK, Libs. Sorry your Daily Show has been ruined for the night. Plus your daily talking points from the Daily Kos.Better luck with America screwing up tomorrow! Keep hope alive!
That is awesome news. We’ve been talking about it in another forum that I visit.
I would like to congradulate the Coalition Forces for their steadfast ambition to eliminate this terrorist leader.
The sad thing Joe Blow, is that the leftist Democraps in the other forum I regularly visit has already been putting their spin on it.
They are saying that they were civilian casualities, and one is even saying that “Zarqawi wasn’t a major player or even a front line general or terrorist, but a media spokes person…..” WTF!!!
I honestly don’t get them.
I hate to make this victory against the terrorist into a political victory for the freedom loving people of the USA and the world, but there are enemies foreign and domestic that want to kill each one of us, but some people don’t think so.
This really sucks for Pelosi and Reid. Now they have to wait for the outdated talking points to get to Washington from Osama’s hole in Pakistan. Zarqawi’s were always so much fresher and up-to-date.
KFG, CF, TB, etc must all be calling each other (on hopefully tapped phones) coordinating their response to this “terrible” news.
I hope that this helps defuse the insurgency. However, I cannot allow what I want to color my predictions; they must be based on what I think will actually happen. And that, I fear, is that this will have little effect.
Joe Blow. KFG is cool.
The other two you’re probably right. They are probably scrolling through the Daily Kos or listening to Randy Rhodes trying to find something to use to counteract this good news. ;)
There is no victory here. Just another martyr created. Ten more will spring up to take his place.
Where’s Osama? Or would catching the boogeyman take away bush’s ability to continue subverting the Constitution and conquering the mid east?
*Sigh*
I arrest my case.
At least I have to admire your courage in stepping up first JR.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2006/06/08/haditha/index_np.html
Former President George H.W. Bush waged a secret campaign over several months early this year to remove Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. The elder Bush went so far as to recruit Rumsfeld’s potential replacement, personally asking a retired four-star general if he would accept the position, a reliable source close to the general told me. But the former president’s effort failed, apparently rebuffed by the current president. When seven retired generals who had been commanders in Iraq demanded Rumsfeld’s resignation in April, the younger Bush leapt to his defense. “I’m the decider and I decide what’s best. And what’s best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain,” he said. His endorsement of Rumsfeld was a rebuke not only to the generals but also to his father.
The elder Bush’s intervention was an extraordinary attempt to rescue simultaneously his son, the family legacy and the country.
Who are the Bush people going to blame now for everything that goes wrong in Iraq now that their scapegoat is officially dead?
I refer to my comments on the other thread.
Otherwise, I leave BlowJoe, Joe Williams and Heckler to their little circle jerk. Be sure to wipe up the floor before you guys leave, OK?
“on hopefully tapped phones”
Wow Joe Blow how very KGB of you!
OK Joe – now that we can declare victory can the troops come home?
Regardless of the political “spin” assigned above..I find it encouraging that this strike was made possible by insider information from Zarqawi’s own people.
It is a shame that he wasn’t slowly decapitated like he enjoyed doing to his captors.
Sadly, one death doesn’t stop a war….
raptor – THAT was definiteky good news. That might actually be more important than the strike itself.
Soon Ben. Soon! :) We are making great progress there.
Although we will most likely have a permanent base in Iraq, most of our troops will be coming home soon.
Heckler,
I included you in the BlowJoe Joe Williams circle jerk before seeing that you asked what appears to be a serious question on the other thread. My bad.
I guess that is the left strategy. Say nothing and never, by god, never congradulate the military for their effort and victory.
Joe Williams,
Here’s the first thing I said in my initial posting on the other thread–the FIRST posting on this topic here, by the way:
“Well. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was taken out in a U.S. bombing raid. Nice work. Goodbye to a bad, bad, bad human being. No tears from me.”
You want to retract your statement?
You Wingnut pukes need to turn the record over. “You’re either with us or against us” is SO fall of 2001.
One can oppose Al Qaeda AND George Bush simultaneously. I guess that fact is lost on mouth breathers like Joe Williams and BlowJoe who have a hard time walking and chewing gum at the same time.
“Zarqawi was identified based on fingerprints, facial recognition, known scars, and tattoos.”
Strange about those tattoos. Islam specifically forbids them. According to Islamic texts, the Prophet Mohammed forbade tattooing:
Narrated Abu Huraira: “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘The evil eye is a fact,’ and he forbade tattooing. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Dress, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 827)”
Joe
With a few exceptions the left is so invested in Bushhate that Nothing good can happen in Iraq. Anything positive that happens threatens to make Bush look good, therefore nothing can be good. Osama could go T.U. tomorrow and their response would be ” he hasnt been a factor for years, it means nothing, he’s been martyred, yada yada yada”.
It’s refreshing to see a few from the left here respond positively.
It SHOULD be remembered that Zarqawi made his reputation and carried out his atrocities in post Saddam Iraq. I will credit the military and the admininstration getting him, but I note that the badly planned strategy for post Saddam Iraq served to “create” him.
“Although we will most likely have a permanent base in Iraq…”
“A” permanent base, Joe? Try 14.
“…most of our troops will be coming home soon.”
Tell that to the families of the 2500 who came home in body bags. Or did you forget that GW announced not long ago that he won’t be bringing the troops home. He’s leaving that for someone else. Makes me wonder what he’s like in bed. He’s a starter, but not a finisher.
No exit plan. Why not? I’m interested in hearing your take on this.
Dang…I was so planning on converting to islam. Now I can’t do to tatooing…I’m crushed….whatever shall I do?
/sarcasm
So where’s Ossama?
Julie, I just found it interesting that someone who had proclaimed his devotion to Islam didn’t follow its laws.
So where’s your tattoo? ::grin::
Mustn’t catch the “boogeyman” RD. If you do, people will stop looking under their beds or to the other side of the planet and maybe see what is going on around them.
“Soon Ben. Soon! :)”
Sure Joe. In geologic terms!
Ouch Ben ! That is gonna leave a mark!
Julie, that’s too bad, because I’m sure you’d look WAY HOT in a burkka.
J R,
An excellent point about the ‘creation’ of Al Zarqawi. I’d dig for more and post it here if I weren’t headed to Lawrence to hear the Flaming Lips.
RD,
How dare you rain on the Wingnut parade! Why do you hate America?
RD -Well now wouldn’t you just love to know ;-)
It’s on my leg – it’s my guardian faerie or my inner imp (depending on how much trouble I’m getting into at the time)
Watching you clowns do you end-zone dance to the illusion of victory in your PR battle is not unexpected.
When Iraq was invaded, there would be those in Karl Rove’s mind who needed to be crowned generals, so the “targeted assassinations” { murder along with ten bystanders } could give the sagging moral of the invading cheerleaders an illusion of a victorious turning point in their quest for dominance and oil in the Middle East.
Not long ago Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was hopping around on one leg, a one legged man leading his men into battle, but now he’s grown a leg almost as fast as you enthusiasm.
We’ll never hear how many houses Busco’s Karl had to bomb to get his “talking point” or how much money needed to be paid-out to supposed turncoats before the “finger prints” could be verified.
So for all the billions after billions you’ve spent on your hollow victory: ” Have a highball at nightfall and be good fellows while you may.”
I’m sure we’ll soon see the video of the Palestinians dancing in the streets, as they did on 9/11.Or not.
Zarqawi was responsible for the BRUTAL decapitation of Nicholas Berg.
Nicholas Bergs fathers take on the death of Zarqawi and if it will stop terrorism?
He feels a great deal more would be accomplished to that end by the impeachment and removal from office of George Bush.
I was glad to hear of his death, I too wish it could have been slow and on video tape with a dull knife. But yes there are thousands to go…. On to Bin landen! I want him alive and here in the states.
Julie,
Cool! I have one on my right shoulder. Had it done 3 years ago. And to think I would never give my girls permission to do the same, although I told them that after they reached 18, they could choose.
CF,
I don’t mean to rain, and I sure don’t hate America. I just found the info interesting.
I’m as pleased as everyone that a monster is gone. I just don’t think this will be the tide-turner everyone hopes it will be.
JR,
Yeah, I’m very familiar with the bogey man. ;) But I’m still not convinced about the Nick Berg thing.
How much more of America’s soul has to be sold in order to keep on massacring the people of Iraq, which has no army to defend itself.?
All this, while all of you do your gloating?
“Regardless of the political “spin” assigned above..I find it encouraging that this strike was made possible by insider information from Zarqawi’s own people.”
You mean they didnt catch him through verizon?
Or did someone overhear his cell phone converation in a trendy but crowded L.A. restaurant?
I think the fact that he was turned in by the iraqi’s is a very hopeful sign. It also lends credence to CF’s points, that he was a problem for ALL sides.
Before anyone does any victory dance (indeed, why DO they hate america?) maybe we should see what happens next.
I mean, after all, “mission accomplished” was three years ago…
hee hee CF, what makes you think that collectively, there would be enough, um, product, with enough, um, velocity, to reach the floor?
JR, they dont need him anymore to make the voters wet the bed with fear.
They have gay marriage again, remember?
Geez, you must not be reading values boy, or his little dog ruby.
“Regardless of the political “spin” assigned above..I find it encouraging that this strike was made possible by insider information from Zarqawi’s own people.”
I heard it the information came from Iran.
In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanideThe Pentagon quickly drafted plans to attack the camp with cruise missiles and airstrikes and sent it to the White House, where, according to U.S. government sources, the plan was debated to death in the National Security Council.
“Here we had targets, we had opportunities, we had a country willing to support casualties, or risk casualties after 9/11 and we still didn’t do it,” said Michael O’Hanlon, military analyst with the Brookings Institution.Four months later, intelligence showed Zarqawi was planning to use ricin in terrorist attacks in Europe.The Pentagon drew up a second strike plan, and the White House again killed it. By then the administration had set its course for war with Iraq.
“People were more obsessed with developing the coalition to overthrow Saddam than to execute the president’s policy of preemption against terrorists,” according to terrorism expert and former National Security Council member Roger Cressey.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601 /
Bush needed to keep Zarqawi in Iraq so he could claim “Al Qaeda” ties.
Nevermind he was in the autonomous Kurdish section aided by our “allies” and opposed to Saddam Hussein like the rest of Al Qaeda.
The White House press corps is a hoot. This from one of my favorite blogs.
Dumbest question from the WH press briefing:
Will the Zarqawi success help the President on immigration?
Snow’s response (with admirable restraint, but detectable contempt): “I don’t know.”
The second stupidest line of questioning attacked the President for his somber tone at his morning announcement.
If he’s too jubilant, he’s a cowboy. If he’s too subdued, he’s being phony.
Another reporter raised suspicions about why the White House waited too long to make its announcement (someone wants to relive Cheney’s shooting incident).
Zarqawi is dead. Bush Derangement Syndrome lives on.
I think it’s wrong and immoral that we dropped a bomb and killed the guy, and republicans suk for supporting a thing like that.
The proper way would have been to go in, capture him alive, set up video, and spend 2 hours killing him slowly (2 hours is perfect for a movie). Sell the DVD with a bag of pop corn on the retail market.
Seriously, this is great news. We took down an al Quaeda biggie and we did it using a throughly American tradition, payola. If we follow through and actually pay out $25 mil, the word will get around. I think we may be onto something here. Want Osama? Why stop at $25 mil? Offer $25 billion! We’d have his head in a week. For $25 billion, I’ll go get him myself!
Repubs, if you consider this some kind of political victory, congrats!
You guys have so little to be happy about anymore….
XXX,A little bloodthirsty today?
XXX has a pathological need to see himself as Rambo.
In a young man, it’s foolish. For somebody his age, it’s delusional and very sad.
The courageous distinguish themselves by deeds, not idle chatter.
The title of this thread is “Zarqawi will never murder again.”
How long until we get to stop Bush from murdering again?
Interesting bit I just read, hadnt heard this before.
As Maj. Gen. William Caldwell confirmed, speaking from Baghdad at about 9 a.m. EDT, the confirmation of Zarqawi’s death triggered about 17 other strikes against people in his network that we had been allowed to remain at large in the hope they would lead us to their boss. The rolling up of so much of Zarqawi’s network could well end their ability to operate in Iraq for months
XXX
“Repubs, if you consider this some kind of political victory, congrats!”
As far as I’m concerned too many people look at the War on Terror/Iraq in political terms. It makes the job our military is trying to do more deadly.
Too many people use the war for politics?
HEHheheheheh.
Like bushco used 9/11? Like bushco used it in the 2004 election? Like ann coulter uses it or rush uses it or the falafel man?
Like that?
hehehehehehehee…heh!
You are correct heck. Waaaay too many people are using it for political gain.
“bring it on”
“mission accomplished”
“you are either with us or against us”
Which of his own comments has the preznit denounced?
I bet someone will ring the bell for a correct answer!
AND I thought the preznit would NEVER do anything to put the troops in unnecessary danger.
oh,oh,oh,oh,oh…I know, I know, I know…….Miss KFG, can I? can I?
It’s interesting that in his last video, the one that officials are saying contributed to identifying his location, al-Zarqawi apparently didn’t know how to cock the machine gun and someone else rushed in to do it. He got what he really didn’t want–death–when all he really wanted was power. According to moderate Muslims’s beliefs based on the Koran, his spirit is being tortured in his grave–if only it was true.
KFG
How many of our troops have died because of the “vietnam syndrome”.
It’s real convenient for you to lay all the deaths on Bush, but our guys are there, they have a job to do. Many have died because of the Defeatist Left.
All that matters to many on the Left is that Bush goes down, it doesnt matter to them if a few of our soldiers die because of their tactics. “We support the troops” is bullshit when many have died because of Bushhate.
I, too, think it is good news we got this guy.
Too bad we didn’t take him out in 2002 — think of the lives we could have saved.
The only downside to killing him was that he succeeded in giving Al Qaeda a bad name (in the Muslim street) due to his killing of so many Muslims.
He was a classic sociopathic animal. How his hatred could ever be wrapped in religious dogma is a mystery to me.
Heckler – good news if true.
Heckler,
Replace all your “left”s and you’ll have it right. Um, correct.
Bush and buddies gave the push to go into Iraq. You forget that there was never a Declaration of War. Could that be that because it’s an invasion and occupation?
Sure, way too many Dems voted in favor, but what did they vote in favor of? The use of force AS A LAST RESORT. Since force was the only resort Bush was interested in… What did information did they use to vote on? “Faulty intelligence.” Well, I guess that’s as good a definition of Bush as there is.
The Dems and Liberals killed these troop? Stop falling on Rush’s attacks to use for your own. It’s way too simple-minded.
Funny, all of the military and policy experts I’ve heard, including two retired Marine Corps generals, both very high up in CentCom up through the beginning of the latest conflict and who appeared on the News Hour with Jim Lehrer last night, say that the only solution IS a political one, not a military one. Until the Iraqis put aside their differences for the greater good, no amount of military force is going to turn that situation around.
Gee, the last I heard, our troops were being killed by insurgents, IED’s, and terrorists, not bushhate.
And arent some of those deaths, and maimings, due to lack of resources, like vehicle armour, personal protection, etc? I guess the tax cuts for the rich must have cut into the budget for things the troops need to protect themselves. Would that be the fault of the bushhaters too, or maybe the republican controlled congress and the preznit?
Or rummy, who sent to war the army he had, not the one he wanted, with the stuff that he had, not the stuff the troops needed?
I must not be getting my news from the same sources as heck. It isnt as fair and balanced.
I want this thing over, I don’t care who gets credit. I want the long term strategy to work, and I dont care who gets credit for it. If it works out 10 or 20 years down the road it really really doesnt matter who gets the credit for it. The world will be a better place.
high five RD, good to see ya Brian!
“If it works out 10 or 20 years down the road it really really doesnt matter who gets the credit for it.”
Yeah heck, but if it doesnt work out who gets the blame?
The PNAC guys are already blaming the media and you are blaming the liberals. I am sure the democrats will get a drive by smear too. After all, if you arent with bushco, you are against them.
And HOW many americans will die, lose a limb, get their brains scrambled by a head injury, or be otherwise severely wounded? How many years worth of federal budgets will be wrecked? How high will gas go?
In the face of those questions, exactly what would “working out” look like in 10 or 20 years?
How will we know we have succeeded? When every last man, woman, and especially child, is killed? When all the oil is ours? When iran is nuked? When islam is defeated and the chrisitanists send missionaries to convert the unwashed?
When cheney is preznit?
Please enlighten us!
RD
The war is on, our soldiers are there, too much energy is being spent in the US on the politics of it and not enough on the winning of it. The enemy expects us to cave any minute. (vietnam syndrome) The antics of politicians and the media give the enemy hope, so it drags on, with more people dying. Get it done. Get it done right.
KFG
In the grand scheme of things your opinion and my opinion dont mean shit. But the actions of politicians and the national media do matter. If you doubt some of those actions have not caused more deaths than necessary to finish this thing off then you are a fool.
Heckler,
So it’s all about vanity? It’ll look bad if we leave? Well, it probably doesn’t matter. We aren’t going to leave, at least not before Bush is out of office. Another 3 years and how many MORE lives, limbs, and sanity lost?
If we don’t leave, we risk our troops being caught in a full-blown civil war, to the likes of which none of us has ever seen. How do the odds sound? Would you like to be among our fighting men and women when THAT happens?
We made a mistake going in there. We have f*cked up a country that was f*cked up enough with Saddam in there.
You have to weigh the cost against the success, and I doubt, unless KFG’s predictions are right, there ever is the kind of success many are hoping for. The Middle East has been boiling for centuries, and every time we stick our noses in it, there’s more trouble.
Since Bush can’t answer this question, I’ll ask you:When will we know when we’ve won the war in Iraq?
Thanks, KFG :-)) It has been a while.
We would all like to see a resolution to this mess that is acceptable to all parties. I think Heckler has the order of magnitude about right for how long it will take…a generation or two. Given that, you have to wonder what the big rush to war was all about in the first place. Saddam wouldn’t have lasted another 25 years.Maybe the Baathist dictatorship might have, but who knows..25 years of diplomacy is a long time.
I hope we’ve (re)learned a lesson from this…wars rarely go as expected and a big guy losing to a little guy (even looking bad against him) doesn’t impress the onlookers. It’s pretty clear that our opponents have learned a lesson…if you don’t have nuclear weapons the U.S. will try to crush you…if you have them the U.S. will leave you alone no matter how serious a threat you might be…not the lesson we wanted to teach, unfortunately.
…and dont forget that balance of trade thing, like with china and vietnam.
…and dont forget the oil thing. If you have it, we want it. If you dont, we may not hurt you.
Doesnt it bother you people that when a tape comes out from Osama or Zarqawi that it sounds like it was written by the DNC?
No heckler, it doesn’t. The reason: it doesn’t happen in the first place. Only in your hallucinations.
RD
Vanity? No that’s not what I’m talking about. I obviously gave you the wrong impression.
“Since Bush can’t answer this question, I’ll ask you:When will we know when we’ve won the war in Iraq”
Good question. When their government and security forces can stand on their own with a little tech. support from us? Hard to say.
You got me to thinking, what do you suppose the Middle East would look like in 20 years if we just left and didnt look back?
Wow
“Doesnt it bother you people that when a tape comes out from Osama or Zarqawi that it sounds like it was written by the DNC?”
Wasnt it ANN COULTER who said this first? That ossama bin forgotten tapes sounded like the DNC? That is an OLD republican meme.
Geez, heck not only is one of two people who defends ol’ godless, but he actually QUOTES her and repeats her?
woof.
And here is Heckler the dancing fool to perform for us!
Leftists are getting troops killed? Aside from Rush just where is your proof for that Heckler?
Wait. Your retort is that they see the dissension here and it encourages them over there.So in addition to not being able to find Osama, WMDs, or stabilize Iraq we are incapable of controlling the media those people see over there? I guess they are too preoccupied trying to control the media here? No bare breasts on US tv but no control over what is seen where we have 130,000 troops?
Dance your little victory dance today Heckler. It would be cruel to deny you the first “good news” you bushbots have been able to claim in a long time. But remember again, the bush quagmire in Iraq created Zarqawi. Just like US intervevtionalism in the 80’s created Bin Laden.
bush finally fixed one thing he caused? I’ll not credit him much for that.
Nah Heck,
What bothers me is that when Reid, or Kennedy or Dean speak it sounds like their policy was written by UBL.
Our troops don’t have the ability to win faster than the liberals can surrender.
Hank
Fool Heckler – the people who are screwing it up are the people in charge.
“what do you suppose the Middle East would look like in 20 years if we just left and didnt look back?”
Un, a lot like it does now, just with haliburton pouring less concrete? But with fewer AMERICANS dead and wounded?
So, if you dont know what success would look like BEFORE you start a war, wouldnt that kind of be like taking off on a car trip with no map and NO IDEA of your intended destination?
My Dad used to say that “if you dont know where you are going, any road will take you there.”
Looks like the preznit, rummy, and darth cheney must have been listening to my Dad.
It doesnt matter WHAT road you take if you are just going around in circles and are headed back to the starting line.
“You got me to thinking, what do you suppose the Middle East would look like in 20 years if we just left and didnt look back?”
I don’t know heckler – what I do know is that SE Asia looks better today than it did when LBJ was calling the shots. I suspect that had we not killed a couple million there the region would be better off today than it is.
…and right on cue, Hank, the elder price boy, not only reinforces the ann coulter meme, he goes it one better?
What color is the sky over in wingnuttia? I bet it is a pretty shade of koolaide.
Gosh, I found this on Kos:
“CHEERS to finding a really evil needle in a really big haystack. U.S. forces rocked terrorist Abu Musab “Dick” al-Zarqawi’s world last night when they tossed a thousand pounds of explosive whupass down his gullet.
They found his body in the bedroom. And the kitchen. And the den. And the garage. And the neighbor’s apartment. And I think I found an eyebrow in my Cocoa Puffs this morning.
My only regret: he didn’t know what hit him.”
But the libs just LOVE the terrorists, right?
Hank, you kidder you!
Agreed, Ben…What a thing to say. In essence calling democrats traitors and terrorists. One may disagree with the positions of a major party, but the interests of the US and one’s fellow citizens are always foremost in the minds of most everyone.
“I want this thing over, I don’t care who gets credit. I want the long term strategy to work, and I dont care who gets credit for it. If it works out 10 or 20 years down the road it really really doesnt matter who gets the credit for it. The world will be a better place.”
On this I agree with you Heckler. That is why I wish we had a policy that would work instead of a policy that will continue to fail.
No, KFG, it’s not that you love the terrorists. But you libs in your war on terror are just like you are in your leftist, statist approach on the economy.You love a good economy and good jobs, you just want to destroy the means by which we have a good economy and good jobs. You hate terror, you just want to destroy the means by which we defeat terrorism.
Oh man, great read here about ann coulter, and the incivility of the right wing pundits. Rude language, like this excerpt:
“Today, the average conservative commentator comes across as a kissin’ cousin to the inbred mountain men in Deliverance, yelling “Squeal like a pig!”
http://theopinionmill.com/Scumqueen.html
heheh, I can only tell the readers here that you will recognize the part of that link that reminds you of blow….
“Good question. When their government and security forces can stand on their own with a little tech. support from us? Hard to say.”
According to Rumsoaked it is months not years. OOPS! That was years ago!
Care to give even a vague timeline heckler? Decades? Light at the end of the tunnel?
Farm Gal,Your Mr. Hart’s comparison of Miss Annie to a Neanderthal is extremely offensive to Neanderthals!
Ben
The only policy that will work is peace with the Arabs. Our attempt for conquest will destroy both of us. The problem is that Israel will need to be restrained. Israel wants a free hand and so do the neocons. There’s the impasse.
heheh
sorry to little neanderthals
Unfortunately, in this era of low-level conflicts, the elimination of a leader doesn’t do much to impair a guerilla force. There’s no lack of committed believers ready to move into the opening, and we create more every day.
The Israel Lobby just pushed through a 2.34 billion in the House in aid for Israel. Why?
DeLay did it just to piss you off, Ed.
That’s “trouble-making” money.
Let’s give credit where credit is due… to those who collected the intelligence, and those who carried off this successful mission. They deserve the credit…ALL of the credit.Let us also remember the old adage: “Success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan.”And the fundies back home Monday morning quarterbacking are still a bunch of mothers.
Ed – gee, and here I thought all we had to do was “invade their countries, kill their leaders, and Christianize them” (Coulter)
Brilliant.
Ben
“Care to give even a vague timeline heckler? Decades? Light at the end of the tunnel?”
Hard to say at this point. It really depends on how bad we really hurt Zarqawi’s network and what his followers do in the next couple of weeks. What’s really interesting is how many others we took out and how much intel we can pull from the rubble.
I havent tried to guess yet and I’m not going to start now.
JR be carfull what you say on the phone, I’ve got a feeling there’s a whole bunch of fresh phone tapping going on this afternoon.
Ben, The “brilliant” comment was about MC
In other words heckler – sometime in the next century – MAYBE.
At the rate Iraqiization is going …
Ben
Bush is making 3 by 4 foot pictures of Zarqawi { framed no less }. Karl is going to “milk” this one for every drop.
Oh no I have visions of Nancy Pelosi squealing like a pig….out, get out…
The other 10 bystanders that they killed don’t count { No pictures }.
Ben
Do the “others” just have one brain that they pass around?
Truly a sad day for the folks down at the Peace and Social Justice Center.
Patriot–
Oh sure. This will end the war and all wars, right?
Crank–
“What bothers me is that when Reid, or Kennedy or Dean speak it sounds like their policy was written by UBL.
“Our troops don’t have the ability to win faster than the liberals can surrender.”
Hank
For instance: FDR, the father of modern liberalism, won victory in Europe against the Nazis.
Truman (also liberal) won against the Japanese Empire. Stopped the North Korean invasion of the south and the communist Chinese invasion.
Eisenhower (conservative) watched as Cuba went communist.
JFK (liberal) stopped the Soviets from installing missiles in Cuba.
Nixon (conservative) caved in Vietnam. Bush I (conservative) refused to take out Saddam or support the uprising against him that Bush himself had fomented.
All it takes to believe Hank is an utter disregard for facts.
bush invades Iraq for false reasons based on”mistaken” intel
Iraq descends into virtual anarchy because of bush failure to establish stable Iraq.
Alquaeda gains foothold in Iraq where it had not existed before.
Amidst the chaos, Zarqawi ascends to leadership of growing Alquaeda using terrorism to push three Iraqui factions closer to civil war.
US forces kill Zarqawi.
And this is a major accomplishment….how?
Current US and civilian dead in Iraq?
Current # of actual threats to America eliminated?0
>>Oh sure. This will end the war and all wars, right?<<
And now you’re forced to put words in my mouth in order to tap dance around your anti-Americanism.
Al-Quida feels your pain.
Patriot–
Hate America? You’re kidding, right? You’re a parody of yourself.
By the way, how much in extra taxes are you willing to pay to support this war?
>>Current # of actual threats to America eliminated? 0<<
Based on what? Your hatred for George Bush? Flawed left-wing logic?
….talk about a problem with intelligence.
>>By the way, how much in extra taxes are you willing to pay to support this war?<<
Whatever it takes to keep America free from terrorism. Sorry you don’t feel that way. Amazing we can do it with Bush tax cuts, too!
Well, I’m glad he was killed, but what’s the Peace and Social Justice Center got to be sad about?
Other than idiots like you blackguarding them?
>>JFK (liberal) stopped the Soviets from installing missiles in Cuba.<<
Interesting thing about JFK…today he’d be run out of the Democratic Party. He started massive tax cuts, invigorated our space program and militarily stood down our enemies who threatened us. Today’s liberals would loathe a man like that!
We can “do it with Bush tax cuts” because we’re just borrowing the money to be repaid in the future.
If you’re younger than about 80, there’s a helluva bill waiting for you.
You don’t know SHIT, Patriot.
Today’s dems worship the man. That’s why everybody with a Kennedy last name holds public office.
Ignorant puke.
>>For instance: FDR, the father of modern liberalism, won victory in Europe against the Nazis.
Truman (also liberal) won against the Japanese Empire.<<
All great victories, but would be opposed by today’s liberals. And you know how today’s liberals wail and gnash their teeth over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
CrankStank—-YOU FUNNY !!
>>Today’s dems worship the man.<<
They worship his prowess in the bedroom, not his politics (massive tax cuts, invigorated space program, standing down the Soviets).
Ah, okay, Patriot.
I think I understand you now.
You’re an effing lunatic.
>>You’re an effing lunatic.<<
I knew you’d be unable to refute the truth about liberals and JFK.
Your thoughts have no room to hide in such a small mind.
Just stay calm where you are and shortly an orderly will escort you back to your padded cell.
But it must be real progress for you to be able to use the computer and everything.
Who knows, if you follow your medication schedule and work through the narcassistic rage issues, you might be released.
Someday.
Typical traitor calling himself a Patriot – cheers when America is led down a sorry path to its damage and then whines that anyone who points that out is an America-hater. Typical for those who truly hate freedom. Even more full if it than the other Righties around here.
I see this the “hot” thread. Once again, not enough time to read everything, and less to post, but, FWIW:
1) Glad the guy’s dead.
2) Hope they didn’t blow up useful intelligence, as. . .
3) They’ll surely need it. Acknowledging reality is not the same thing as being negative for the sake of negativity.
AND
4) CF, Flaming Lips? Ouch, wish I could make it. Been a fan the better part of 20 years.
As a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, I liked it when JFK gave us massive tax cuts, and I never thought they were racist or only for the rich.
I don’t like it when Bush gave us tax cuts.
I liked it when JFK jump-started our space program. I felt proud and it was something to rally around. I never questioned whether it would be a drain on our budget and social programs.
I didn’t like it when Bush jump-started our space program to return to the moon and then go to Mars.
I liked it when JFK stood up to our enemies and I never ever talk about him getting us involved in the quagmire of Viet Nam.
I don’t like waging a war on terror under Bush.
Julie,”XXX,A little bloodthirsty today?”
Nah, this is one of my laid-back days. If I was feeling blodthirsty, I’d have suggested BBQ, lol!
FlyontheWall,
Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick…….
“FlyontheWall,
Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick, Tick…….”
Hehehe! Well, there ya go, X, trying to choke me to death! Somehow you KNEW, at that moment, I was drinking that iced tea! ;-)
OMG! You’re psychic too! HELLLP!!! :-0
Revisiting this comment:”The war is on, our soldiers are there, too much energy is being spent in the US on the politics of it and not enough on the winning of it.”
So maybe we should be sending the politicians to do the fighting? Or their children?
un-Patriot,
(Big sigh) Kennedy didn’t get us into the mess in Vietnam. Eisenhower did. He was the first to send advisors and troops. As a matter of fact, Kennedy wanted us out of there. Guess where that led?
If for only one thing, we should all be thankful Kennedy was president when he was. If he hadn’t been and Nixon had, who knows where the Joint Chiefs of Staff would have landed us?
Operation: Northwoods, anyone?
Wall Street Journal demolishes Lib arguments (for those who don’t want to read the whole thing because the truth hurts. Do us all a favor. Don’t.)__________________________________
Well, we hate to be a wet blanket, but something about this story doesn’t smell right. After all, Iraq has nothing to do with al Qaeda, which in turn has nothing to do with Iraq–and if you don’t believe us, ask these experts:
* “The Iraqis have nothing to do with terrorism, Iraq has no contacts with al-Qaeda or others who were behind the events on 11 September.”–Iraqi “legislator” Mohammad Muthafar al-Adhami, quoted by the BBC, Sept. 10, 2002
* “It doesn’t have anything to do with the war on terrorism. Not only that, I fear it will be a distraction from the war on terror. If you look at al Qaeda, al Qaeda is building up right now in Pakistan. So in fact, if we wanted to have an invasion that was a follow-up to the war on terror, we would invade Pakistan.”–Cynthia Tucker, Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Feb. 6, 2003
* “War against Iraq may prove to be a fatal distraction from the war on terror. The danger to Americans today is from al Qaeda. . . . We need to keep the pressure on al Qaeda. . . . We need to focus the resources of our nation on the war on terror and dismantle the al Qaeda network before it can mount another catastrophic attack on the United States.”–Sen. Robert Byrd (D., W.Va.), March 11, 2003
* “What I said was, you know, invading Iraq or bombing Iraq after we’re attacked by somebody else, it’s akin to, what if Franklin Roosevelt after Pearl Harbor instead of going to war with Japan said, ‘Let’s invade Mexico.’ It’s very analogous.”–Clinton terrorism adviser Richard Clarke, March 21, 2004
* “We also have to be smart, Jim. And smart means not diverting your attention from the real war on terror in Afghanistan against Osama bin Laden and taking if off to Iraq. . . . Iraq is not even the center of the focus of the war on terror.”–Sen. John Kerry (D., Mass.)*, Sept. 30, 2004
* “[Iraq] had nothing to do with Osama bin Laden, it had nothing to do with al Qaeda.”–Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D., W.Va.), June 28, 2005
* “But I am talking about the war with Iraq, not the war on terror.”–Matt Lauer, NBC News, June 6, 2006
When this many experts agree on something, you know it has to be true. So what in the world was Abu Musab al-Zarqawi doing in Iraq? We don’t know, but we’re sure it was just a coincidence. Maybe he was on vacation. Maybe he got lost and, being a man, he refused to stop and ask for directions. Maybe he wasn’t alive to begin with.
“By my reckoning he’s been dead for years,” writes “Last Lemming,” a DailyKos.com denizen. Colin Powell noted more than three years ago that Zarqawi “traveled to Baghdad in May 2002″–more than 10 months before Saddam’s fall–”for medical treatment.” After the disastrous incompetent illegal unilateral invasion, Iraq’s hospitals were looted, which must have made it hard to provide him with proper treatment.
“If there are any Americans left who believe that the death of Zarqawi is anything other than an orchestrated photo-op, then it’s time to start scouting out apartments in Vancouver,” one Scott Thill writes on the Puffington Host today. “I hear no one cares about the weed there.” Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, dude.
* At least he served in Vietnam, unlike Abu Musab al-Zarqawi!
The Man Who Would Have Saved ZarqawiFrom a Nov. 17 press release by Rep. Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania:
I said over a year ago, and now the military and the Administration agrees, Iraq can not be won “militarily.” . . . I have concluded that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is impeding this progress.
Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency.
My plan calls:
– To immediately redeploy U.S. troops consistent with the safety of U.S. forces. . . .
It seems pretty clear that had Murtha had his way, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi would still be alive.
Iraqis Whoop It Up, Palestinians Don’t”Iraqi citizens took to the streets celebrating Abu Musaab Zarqawi’s death on Thursday,” reports the Kuwait News Agency:
Joy filled Baghdad’s hot streets, as gun shots sounded through the air, and cars packed with overjoyed Iraqi’s roamed the streets. Iraqis were sharing sweets with people outside their homes.
Civil organizations paraded as they condemned violence chanting “death to Zarqawi and Saddamites.” Thursday’s celebrations could be compared to the jubilation in Baghdad’s streets the day Saddam Hussein was captured.
Some Palestinians reacted similarly to the attacks of Sept. 11, but their reaction to today’s was more subdued, reports the Jerusalem Post:
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s death was only a minor loss to the anti-US resistance movement in Iraq, the Palestinian foreign minister said Thursday.
Mahmoud Zahar, a member of the new Hamas-led government who has been meeting Pakistani officials in the capital of Islamabad, said the Palestinians are “blessing every effort to eliminate the existence of occupation.”
“We are dead sure that assassination of any of the people (like al-Zarqawi) who are resisting will not . . . end the resistance,” Zahar said at a press conference.
Remember this the next time someone says America should have let the Iraqis rot under Saddam Hussein and concerned ourselves with the Palestinians instead.
Hearts and Minds”More than half of the battle is taking place on the battlefield of the media,” according to a letter purportedly written last year by al Qaeda No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahiri to the now-departed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. “We are in a media race for . . . hearts and minds.” This race has outlived Zarqawi, to judge by some of the news coverage of his death.
“The killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi removes the man who took Iraq’s insurgency to new heights of savagery but it also creates a martyr whose inspiration will mobilize new recruits,” according to a Reuters “report.” An interesting trick, gazing into the future to report on what effect the events of today will have tomorrow. Reuters also describes Zarqawi’s killing as “a rare triumph in Iraq for the Bush administration”–which is to say, a triumph so unambiguous that journalists can’t present it as anything but.
Not that they can’t try. This is from an Associated Press “report”:
But any hopes the Jordanian-born terror leader’s death would help stem the violence in Iraq were dimmed hours later when a car bomb exploded in a Baghdad market, killing 12 and wounding 65.
And this is from the New York Times:
The American ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad, . . . described Mr. Zarqawi’s death as “a great success for Iraq” in its war with terrorists, and congratulated General Casey, “whose forces carried out this very vital mission.” In a personal nod to General Casey, he noted that the American commander “has been here now for more than 700 days”–an oblique way, perhaps, of saying that Mr. Zarqawi’s death marked a rare upturn in the war for the force of 135,000 American troops General Casey leads, who have lost more than 2,400 soldiers dead and more than 17,000 wounded, with no end to the war in sight.
Why just quote someone when you can explain that the quote is an “oblique way” of expressing the reporter’s opinion?
What Would Zarqawi Do Without Experts?”Experts: Zarqawi Death Tough Blow–but Not Fatal”–headline, YnetNews.com, June 8
Blow – as you know, Zarqawa was only in the US-patrolled northern corner of Iraq until after the invasion. It was after the invasion that he became active throughout Iraq.
Some good news – apparently Jordanian intelligence was also involved in the attack on him. That, along with the information above (raptor?) that some of his followers gave intel is the true good news. IF the network unravels then maybe it will mean something.
Just heard Kofi Annan happy about it as well.
Keep spinnin’ baby. Kinda fun to watch. Sad. But fun.
Yes, Blow, your spin is fun to watch.
Another good news item from NPR tonight – the fact is that a majority of Iraqis are secular. The death of Zarqawa might free them to come together into a secular-led government. I sure as hell hope so.
On the other hand, he has set up independent brigades that will continue without him.
I hope this is a turning of the corner. I fear that it is another “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED”
Keep spinning Blow, keep spinning.
Well. If they said it at NPR, then it MUST be true. :-)
Clueless Joe Blow–
How many times can you believe the same right-wing propaganda machine that said the war is going well for the last THREE YEARS?
Oh well, the right-wing says that Vietnam was going well when we were forced to “cut-and-run” under the liberal leadership of NIXON ten years after it started.
By the way, if Iraq were World War 2, it would almost be over by now.
Hey . . . wasn’t catching Saddam supposed to be the big turning point?
And then the elections were a big turning point?
And then the drafting of the constitution was a big turning point?
And then the second elections were a big turning point?
Every single time, the right-wing was whooping and a hollering that the libs were proven wrong.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED was supposed to be the turning point. According to Rumsoaked we would only be there for months, not years.
Remember all those Al-Quaeda No. 2’s we kept getting?That is, until we all realized it was a bunch of…No. 2.Let’s all hope this is for real, and the light at the end of the tunnel isn’t just another train.
From my favortite pickled Brit….
If we had withdrawn from Iraq already, as the “peace” movement has been demanding, then one of the most revolting criminals of all time would have been able to claim that he forced us to do it. That would have catapulted Iraq into Stone Age collapse and instated a psychopathic killer as the greatest Muslim soldier since Saladin. As it is, the man is ignominiously dead and his dirty connections a lot closer to being fully exposed. This seems like a good day’s work to me.
For the rest of an interesting Hitchens column….
http://www.slate.com/id/2143305/nav/tap1/
isnt he the plagerist who got fired from the wapo after he was busted on it?
Or was that another wingnut columnist squealing like a pig.
“isnt he the plagerist who got fired from the wapo after he was busted on it?”
I would doubt it for the simple fact that Slate is owned by the Washington Post. He does jog “bad memories” for me, too. I will read and see what I can find.
Sorry, my bad. The plagiarist was Ben Domenech.
Actually, Christopher Hitchens used to work for the Nation, but he’s always had a baffling militarist streak, particularly when considering his other politics. He left the zine in a huff over the Iraq war, said a lot of ugly things about his former colleagues.
And he was proven wrong about, well, pretty much everything, and hasn’t lived it down to this very day.
A pity, as he did an admirable job of documenting Henry Kissinger’s complicity in numerous war crimes (Cambodia,Chile, Cyprus, East Timor etc.).
http://www.versobooks.com/books/ghij/h-titles/hitchens_kissinger.shtml
But his over-inflated ego can’t allow him to ever admit he’s wrong, about anything! That’s really his Achilles’ heel.
Since then, he seems to have made common cause with right-wingers, but he’s also a plantiff in one of the NSA surveillance lawsuits.
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/23485res20060116.html
This Wikipedia entry on Hitchens is interesting, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens
That is an interesting entry, DD, but they got one thing way wrong. He did not leave “shortly after the 9/11 attacks.” He remained at the Nation well into 2002, and, as I said, left the mag bitterly disagreeing with their positions on Iraq.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20021216/exchange
That said, they didn’t do a bad job.
Another terrorist has been brought to justice!
Congratulations to all the brave men and women involved in this operation. Their service to the country, their professionalism, and their dedication deserve a big hearty Thanks and Good Job!
Semper Fi!
Uhm, brought to justice? Odd way of putting it, Nathan.
I assume his self-identification as Al-Qaeda made him a legitimate target (collateral flesh notwithstanding), but I call that at best a justifiable war casualty. It can’t possibly be “justice” when a missile is judge, jury and executioner.
But then that’s the whole problem the War on Terra. Words and concepts are bent into pretzels.
Enjoy your stay, Nathan, and try to come back in one piece. I’ll be trying to bring you and everyone else home (I know you can’t very well abandon your fellow jarheads!).
Unlike the chickenhawks, at least you’re willing to back your words with action.
If you guys are really interested in supporting me I have just signed up for Rush 24/7.
It will be a bit for them to verify me, but you could adopt me and give me the gift of Rush Limbaugh online while I am there.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/rush_24_7_adopt_a_soldier.guest.html
Nathan – I can get you a bloodless lonotomy all at once and a lot faster.
mis-typed – lobotomy.
Interesting that multi-millionaire dopehead Rush sells those toy servicemen instead of giving them. You would think that since he is such a cheerleader for this war that, since he cannot go and fight himself (I’m just SURE he wants to) he would happily donate his electronic presence.
Hey, lay off the Rushster! He’s got a butt cyst! That’s how he avoided ‘Nam.
I’ll think about it Nathan.
Nathan,
Rush is an advocate for putting you in a harms way he avoided.
I’ll not support his access to you while you are deployed. He has done enough damage on you already. And if he wants you to hear his message let HIM pay for it.
Call it compensation for being a chickenhawk. He has never been in the peril that you will be. Let HIM send you his explanations as to how HE is better than you at his own monetary expense.
This does seem to be the “blog du jour” since that last nasty Tiahrdt thread. We are gaining new posters because of that maybe?
Screwyouhank Price, Patriot, Crank Price, flyonthewall, clueless Joe, the unpatriot, welcome! I hope we will hear more from you!
One less sandniger
Just got this e-mail alert from CNN, kind of warmed my heart. Does that make me evil?
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was alive when U.S. troops reached him after the U.S. bombing raid, but died “almost immediately” after, Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said.
He had time to know what had hit him and who sent it.
“One less sandniger
Posted by: Ben Dover”
Typical attitude that leads to things like My Lai and Haditha. While I will shed no tears for the terrorist Zaqara the sort of things that have happened with killings of civilians just because they are “sandnigers” hurts the war effort. |
Here’s a link to what Heckler’s talking about.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060609/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/air_strike_al_zarqawi;_ylt=AnO7AKZtDRs6SRxGppmOtPys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ–
Ben
Please don’t compare Haditha to My Lai until all the facts are in. It certainly looks like something bad happened there but it wouldnt be the first time the media passed on a line of crap that wasnt true. It could turn out to be something very different from what we’ve been lead to believe.
That said I agree that words like those from Ben D do nothing to help the war effort.
Man! The leftist are one assumed scandel from spitting on our returning soliders and calling them baby killers like they did in the 60’s.
They are just waiting for one celebrity leftist to make the go ahead and do it and they all will follow.
For our troops: Keep your heads up. The leftist who spit on you isn’t the real America that you love and defend. And I know you know that. :)
Joe, that’s one of the most unintelligent comments you’ve made on here. I haven’t seen one, single legitimate person even hint at anything so preposterous.
Every sane American (and there are the insane on both “sides”) wants only the best for our troops. However, sending our men and women to “war” without necessary equipment certainly doesn’t appear to be wanting the best for them.
RD,
We have the best equiped and trained military in the world.
What you consider to be “necessary” is based on nothing more than your bias to find whatever you can to bash Bush with.
Our military has to go to war with what they have. We can’t wait for 5-10 years till everyone has what you think to be “necessary.”
I take that back. There is one leftist out there that is taking the lead against our troops. That is Fred Phelps.
While he is an extreme case, he is a leftist none-the-less.
Joe, There’s nothing political about that deranged bastard. Even schizophrenics want nothing to do with that “thing.”
He’s on your side bro! Can’t dispute that.
Joe
It was Bush’s political rush to go to war which sent troops there without the proper gear. And that grumpy old fart Rumsfeld is the bottom of the barrel of leadership.
Rumsfeld and Cheney originated PNAC and were so affraid the false intel would be exposed. That was behind the rush to go to war.
That cost too many soldiers their lives and limbs and there’s no exuse for that.
Rumsfeld and Cheney had their chance to fake a reason and they took it.
Ed! You have a point there. But I still believe in the war and what we are doing there is a good thing for the USA and the world.
But we did rush to war and we could have been better equiped.
Joe – do you disavow the “sandniger” comment? Or should I attribute that attitude to you and all other Righties like you do?
Still wondering Joe – when can we start drawing down our troops and let Iraqiization run its course? And lets not have a geologic time “soon” meaningless answer this time?
And no, Joe, wacko Fred is not a “leftist”; he is one with you and yours.
Joe
I believe that we have more important things to do with a our money right here at home.
And I’ve yet to see or imagine any real benefits will come out of this perpetual violence.
If we spent as much energy and money finding a peaceful resolution, the benefits would overwhelmingly outweigh what we can possibly expect from our current course.
Joe, you confuse me on the Aids thread you write a well written thoughtful post and manage to insert a slam on Reagan. Yet you also make asnine statements like Hitler and Phelps are leftists which makes no sense whatsoever. Hitler is about as extreme right as you can get, Nazisms and Fascism are extreme Right wing ideologies an example of a extremist Left-wing ideology would be Communism all are equally stupid and don’t work. As for Phelps he is so far right that Rev Falwell thinks he is a nutjob. Lets use a little logic here if gay-rights etc is a liberal issue then how would Phelps’s rampant hated for gays fit into a left-wing political dynamic. On a side note you say you hate leftists and would never vote for one yet you have said you’ve voted for Nader twice well he is so far left that he is a borderline Socialist.
Dingus
Whatever it says on the label isn’t necessarily what is inside the can.
Joe, you’re onto something about Phelps. He’s anti-American, anti-military and is backed by the ACLU. He’s just another left-wing nutjob.
Dingus, the Nazi Party espoused a strong, centralized federal government. That’s left wing, pal….not right wing.
Patriot
Politics comes full circle, as both left and right meet at a dictatorship.
The just take different roads getting there.
For those that ovisuly skipped goverment class heres a refresher course. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
so if the aclu backs Rush Limbaugh that would make him a leftist?
Dingus,
You might try this one, too (same source).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-Right_politics
Note that there have been disagreements about it.
Nathan, has your dad bought you the armor you’ll need?
“so if the aclu backs Rush Limbaugh that would make him a leftist?”
Reference my link above and you’ll see that no, that would be rightest. ;)
“Equality is left; liberty is right.”
Dingus
Being deranged or hardheaded is not political. It’s what one side accuses the other of being. It’s called rhetoric.
Communism and fascism are both dictatorships, with fancy names leading the way.
Things are whatever they are despite their names, and can be judged by their actions rather than their groupings.
Just because someone on the Right doesn’t like someone with more extreme Right-wing views, Hitler,Phelps,McVeigh etc to call them leftists doesn’t make it so. The extreme left has it share of scumbags to be fair though. Stalin, Unabomber, Robespierre etc
As a ACLU member, I am continually amazed at these idiots who say ACLU “backs” Phelps, Limbaugh, or whoever.
It’s the principles, folks, plain and simple. Medical privacy is medical privacy. Public sidewalks are open to all. Basic fairness means that everyone similarly situated has the same rights, no matter who they are (unless, of course, they happen to have the same genitalia, to name one particular example).
>>so if the aclu backs Rush Limbaugh that would make him a leftist?
Things taste better with a grain of salt.
From the Washington Post:********************************************************************Caldwell also said he was unaware of anything that Zarqawi may have said to the Iraqis who were first on the scene. But according to U.S. troops who got there afterward, “he mumbled a little something but it was indistinguishable, and it was very short,” Caldwell said.
********************************************************************
Maybe he was saying “Rosebud…”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/09/AR2006060900473.html
Patriot,I believe Dingus was simply following up your theme. Either way, the left-right distinction, to the extent it makes any coherent sense, has been completely ignored by you and some others here.
RD,
Currently the Marines are issued a kevlar vest which is rather nice.
I won’t be needing my father to buy me one.
Even though, our service men and women have been fighting wars for the past 200 years without them.
Dingus! Let me give you some education about Phelps and you will understand why I call him a leftist.
Since you used wikipedia as a source, I’ll use it too.
From wikipedia:
“In the 1980s prior to Phelps protesting at funerals,[17] the Phelps family were supporters of then-senator Al Gore’s Presidential aspirations. The basement of Fred Phelps Jr.’s law office supposedly acted as Gore’s Kansas campaign office, and the Phelps hosted a fundraiser. Numerous photos exist on the Internet of Fred Phelps Jr. and his second wife, Betty Phelps-Schurle, posing with Al and Tipper Gore. Phelps Jr. also served as a Gore delegate on the floor of the Democratic National Convention in Atlanta in 1988. [21]
During Bill Clinton’s presidential campaign, Fred Phelps Jr. and members of Westboro campaigned for Gore, ”
“Phelps has failed in numerous Democratic primary elections for governor of the overwhelmingly Republican state of Kansas, in 1990, 1994, and the last time in 1998,”
“Phelps has repeatedly championed Fidel Castro for Castro’s stance against homosexuality; in 1998 Harper’s magazine published a letter Phelps sent to Castro in which he praised Castro and lambasted the U.S.”
The guy is a Democrat! He’s on your side. He isn’t on the right!
Do you feel stupid now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverend_Phelps
SIgh……
WIKIPEDIA JOE?
Let me guess. YOU wrote that that you post on Wikipedia yourself.
No Joe, Phelps is on the right. And you may keep him.
Actually, Phelps simply belongs in a wacko ward. I have been told that long ago he was reasonably sane; something happened since then.
As for his running for nomination that really means nothing. There is nothing to prevent anyone from registering and running in a Primary – Joe you especially know that! If he had been nominated THAT would mean something; just paying the filing fee does not.
If I registered and ran for governor as a republican what would that mean as far as the republican Party goes? NOTHING!
LOL! Oh I love it! Just seeing the steam blowing out you guys ears like a cartoon.
Funny that wikipedia is used as a source for you when you want to make a point, but is crap when it is against you. LOL
The fact is that Phelps is a long time registar Democrat and very active in the party. Saying he doesn’t mean nothing? He has many pictures of him and Gore standing side by side. He was a delegate to the Democratic National Convention.
LOL! He’s in your camp! He’s a leftist Democrat.
Please! If you don’t think Wikipedia is a good source, just enter the search term: Phelps Democrat : you will get plenty of hits on legitmate sites, including your very own Mother Jones Magazine.
The Wikipedia article about him has many legitmate sources backing it.
Al Gore and Fred Phelps are buddy buddies.
You can’t deny the truth. He’s on your side!
JR! Denying the truth as always.
Sigh! Nope! Didn’t write anything. It’s all fact. You are in a state of denial.
You probably need counseling. Especially since you are a layoffed Aircraft worker. You can be a serious threat! You might want to check in.
I’m saying it as a friend. I’m not trying to be sarcatic. Just now thinking about it, and how you react on this blog, you need help.
Let’s get one thing straight. I’m not on the right! I’m a proud individual with libertarian leanings who loves individualism, capitalism, America, and most of all, freedom.
Many power hungry people on the right and all of the people on the left don’t believe in freedom. They believe in government.
Here is the difference.
I think America is great because of its people.
You on the left think America is great because of government.
Clueless Joe,
Has it occurred to your rather small and muddled mind that political candidates take lots of pictures with lots of people. I don’t remember what your take was on the pictures of Abramoff with bush. I DO remember that your side said it meant nothing. As if that mattered since “He has many pictures of him and Gore standing side by side” requires the reader to trust you on your word…..with no proof. No dice Joe.
I have not cared to get personal with ya Joe. When I post that you are clueless and somewhat silly, it is usually in agreement with more than a few people. I regard you as a person who votes rather stupidly having sold out the idealism of your youth to win the favor of….your boss? I generally see you as something of a clown. But you want to play rough.
You think Hitler was a leftist, the Mexican government is leftist, global warming is good, kansas farmers are welfare leeches you are a Libertarian and voted for Nader, and that is just the top 5 illustrations of your convoluted reasoning and you think I need help?
I nominate Joe Williams for the title of blog “cartoon”.His posts are wild flights of technicolor fancy!—–
Joe- America is great because of its government– it’s called Democracy, and it is envied and respected around the world, warts and all. It’s taken a hit due to the antics of our imcompetent President, but it’s still the best game in town. As long as the citizenry are constantly involved, it will evolve, if not, stagnation.
“Sigh”
Yeah! Go back to your beers and cigarettes.
Hilter was a leftist socalist and with absolute power it transformed into facisim.
HISTORY LESSON: Nazi is short for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei in German or better known as Nationalsozialismus translated into English means National Socalism and Nazi in english is known as National Socialist German Worker Party.
Socialist Worker parties are known to be on the left side of the political spectrum.
Mexico’s government is ran by the PRI Partido Revolucionario Institucional or the International Revolution Party. They are part of the Socalist Internationl member groups and is on the left side of the political spectrum.
Kansas grain, oil seed, and other subsidies crop farmers are leeches. They only grow those crops because they are secured subsidy payments. It is a socialist program meant to secure votes for politicans. If any politican decides to cut the farm bill they will be voted against by every farmer that votes.
As I always provide evidence and facts when I post, I presented that in another thread. $5.2 billion dollars were given to 1,120,525 farmers in 2005.
But they say they need them to survive.
On farm subsidies: “In 1984, New Zealand eliminated farm subsidies cold turkey. Farm productivity, profitability, and output have soared since the reforms. The Federated Farmers of New Zealand say that the experience ‘thoroughly debunked the myth that the farming sector cannot prosper without government subsidies.”
I voted for Ralph Nader because he was clearly the best candidate between the other two choices. I don’t agree with everything that Ralph Nader advocates, but he has had a long track record of advocacy and he is a brilliant person and well spoken. He is much more brilliant than Al Gore, John Kerry, and especially George Bush.
I don’t blindly vote straight party ticket like most everybody else does. I actually learn about and review the issues of the candidates and I select who I believe is the best person for the position regardless of party. I vote Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green, and Independent. That is because I am much more indepth in political knowledge than you are.
You vote blindly based on team membership and ideology of the leftism. Just because there are some issues I ademently oppose with Ralph Nader, he was the better candidate and I don’t let some issues effect me.
You for instance wouldn’t vote Republican to save your life, because you feel that all Republicans and the people who support them are idiots and know better. You feel that people on the right are inferior intellectually to you and the left is the superior ideology. You want to know what? Hilter thought the same thing.
I don’t think people on the left are idiots or misguided. They have an ideology that they believe in and they are strong within that faith and belief. I disagree with them, but I don’t think they are inferior like you do.
But I’m no wimp either. I’ll go on the attack and I will defend myself no matter what. Keep calling me names. You are just a layed off half-ass machinst that can’t get a job anywhere else, because you never developed any skills that are in demand today.
You’re probably a heavy drinker and smoker. I know I’m just speculating on that, but I’m guessing I’m probably right on that.
You probably don’t even have a high school diploma also. Yet you still contend to bash me when I’ll just come back on you.
Dude! We once got along. We both understand that we have stances on politics that differ from each other. Honestly we should stop bashing each other like this and learn to be more civil.
So I’m going to extend a handshake to you and call truce. If you don’t want to take it, that’s fine, but don’t expect me to let up on you if you choose to do nothing but come out with limp responses and attacks that have no basis of fact but just emotional distress on your part.
Good luck! Truce?
gster. We live in a Republic. Our country is ruled by law not by men. We have a representative democracy as a form of indirect democracy that acts before us in a proxy for governmental legislative affairs.
Yes! I do agree that our system of goverment breaths and evolves through out time.
“Joe- America is great because of its government– it’s called Democracy, and it is envied and respected around the world, warts and all. It’s taken a hit due to the antics of our imcompetent President, but it’s still the best game in town. As long as the citizenry are constantly involved, it will evolve, if not, stagnation.”
Wow gster, that might be third most ridiculous thing that I have read on this blog. That nonsense made me laugh so hard that I had Guinness runnig up through my nose and mouth, all over the place. I will probably now need to replace my keyboard, DAMN YOU!! lmosrfao
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Thanks Ian– Wih your endorsement, I must be doing alright. The first two were written by you, and I’m sure – with more to come.
“Kansas grain, oil seed, and other subsidies crop farmers are leeches. They only grow those crops because they are secured subsidy payments.”
Joe, that may be the reason the corporate farms grow those things, but not the small family farmer. They grow them because that’s what they and generations before them have grown. Subsidies may be one of the reason rich men will buy farm land, then lease it to small farmers. They get those subsidies that way, too. A percentage of them, anyway.
Since the geological make-up of Kansas is good for growing grains (flat land, the right climate, etc.) it’s been the main part of the Bread Basket of the World for a long time. Here’s a hint again: Subsidies haven’t been around that long.
What would you like to see Kansas do instead of grow grains, oil seed and the like? Major fruits (oranges and such) are out. The damn things would freeze. Strawberries take a sandier soul. The list goes on. But maybe you’ve seen the cotton fields around Wichita? Does that help you any?
(As an aside, while doing some research several years ago, I learned that Oklahoma is the leading producer of cotton in the U.S.)
“You for instance wouldn’t vote Republican to save your life, because you feel that all Republicans and the people who support them are idiots and know better.”
Very funny, Joe. Oh? You weren’t trying to be funny? Well, then… I was a registered Republican for many years. I switched to Dem because my then-hubby and I wanted to be able to vote for both parties in the primaries. He voted those Republicans he wanted to run in the general election, and I voted for the Democrats. Why? Because WE DIDN’T VOTE A STRAIGHT TICKET IN THE GENERAL ELECTIONS.
The one and only time I have ever voted a straight ticket was in 2004 as a personal protest to the previous 4 years. I’ll do it again, too, if I have to. And I’ll stand proud while I do.
Joe – does the fact that I was a registered Republican and that I worked on the freshman campaign of the now-Speaker of the House mean that you and I and Bush are bosum buddies? And that I am a Rightie Republican?
Joe – in what year was Phelps a delegate to the National Convention? mrcontroversy – you know Dem history – can you check that out?
Ben- It’s ala the character Major Major in Catch 22- ” When I’m in, I’m out; and when I’m out, I’m in”.
Nope! I have nothing against you Ben.
RD! You make a great point. We do have a good climate for some cereal grains such as wheat, because it grows well in temperate climates such as ours, but maize doesn’t. We don’t have the rainfall, especially out in Western Kansas to support it. It can only be done by heavy irrigation.
Western Kansas uses to grow watermelons and was considered the best tasting around. They stop growing them because it takes a lot of labor to harvest them and driving a combine is easier.
I don’t want to paint a picture of all farmers are welfare queens, and sure, many rich land owners and some corporation take advantage of the Farm Bill, but most subsidies are unnecessary.
I’ll give you an example. The Mohair and Wool subsidies were enacted during WWI (no typo). It was to help subsidies goat hearders to help supply wool for our soliders uniforms during WWI. It was set up to be a temporary subsidy. But that subsidy still exisit and approaching 100 years in enactment, although we have not use wool for uniforms for many decades.
The grain subsidy program was for the Cold War. You see all these grain silos built everywhere around Kansas, that was for the Cold War. We negotiated with the Soviets with wheat and other cereal grain and to do that we had to build massive surpluses. This of course will drive the cost down, so the government subsidized the farmers for the difference.
The Cold War is over and Russia produces it’s own wheat, so does South America, Australia, China and eastern Europe. The only continent that needs our surpluses is Africa, but that is just aid they aren’t buyers.
But since this is all the farmers ever grown in Kansas they couldn’t switch back to fruits, peach orchards, or even back to grass and have pasture land only (although some do that now, of course with government subsidies).
We still have a massive surplus in grain and most just rot away and the government still provides the subsidies. Now they have ethanol as the saviour of the rotton grain surplus, so hopefully that helps.
Farmers need to be on their own and go by the market now. No need for relic subsidies that just makes the problem worse.
France has that for their wine industry and they are face with 100 million gallons of wine that will never be sold in market. The EU pays the farmers for the wine anyways and they just dump it down the drain. We do the same thing over here with the dairy industry and milk.
We literally pour millions of gallons of milk down the drain, paid for by the federal government as to keep milk high for farmers profit. Regardless if that milk can be used for the poor.
Subsidies doesn’t produce the desire results of supply and demand. The Cold War is over, it needs to stop. All it does it hurt our economy.
Ben! Phelps was a delegate in 1988.
Joe,
I get the feeling what you know about farming comes from books and magazines. You may have spent some time working on one, but you’ve never had to endure the day to day business of farming. I have.
I’m not disagreeing that subsidies should be done away with. They had their purpose, as you pointed out, and that purpose has passed.
Having also been involved with dairy farming, I can tell you that there wasn’t a bit of it “poured out on the ground.” In fact, my ex used to gritch at me when I’d ask him to bring home another 5 gallon jug of milk (6 of us in the family) as if it was going to break him. The increased cost of milk is NOT going to the small dairy farmers. It’s going to the middle man, just as the higher cost of a loaf of bread is not going to the farmer.
You may have read it, Joe, but I lived it. I didn’t always pay a whole lot of attention (I was pretty busy raising 4 kids), but I did have a clue who to thank and who not to thank. I still do.
Joe – you didn’t answer my question. Does the fact that I worked on Dennis Hastart’s freshman campaigh make me bosum buddies with Bush et.al.
And Ben! I answered it. I said “Nope”!
RD! You’re right on about your post. I can’t claim I know everything or know exactly how is it in the farming community.
I appolgize for any of my derogatory statements. I honestly try to not carry it too far. I sometimes do to add emphasis or to make a statement, but it’s wrong to go that route.
Thanks for your post.
Thank you, Joe. :)
Just because Fred is a registered Democrat doesn’t make him a liberal anybody can register for a party D or R and not follow the party ideology. Also it appears that Fred hasn’t always been a nutcase at least in public. Check his website and I think you will find very little praise for other democrats. As for Fred running for office, how much support did the party give him, as much as David Duke got from the Republicans zero. in most states you pay a filing fee and your on the ballot. As for National Socialism being Socialist it was a ploy to get gullible Germans to support them, sort of like if I start a American Freedom Party people would say that sounds good, but then I use it to take away rights, or how China is a peoples republic its just smoke and mirrors.
This from Arab News:
‘Brave Soldiers’
Are Americans finally fed up with the carnage? The people of America are, but the power elites are not. They, the latter, will keep asking for more. As they see it, the terrorism “cash cow” has not yet been milked dry. As it becomes grimly obvious to the people of our planet that the war in Iraq is about neither war nor terror, but about profit, the truth about America is again front and center.
Peace for the world? It will come when Dick Cheney is led out of the White House in leg irons, John McCain is appointed vice president and George Bush resigns. That is the only scenario that would bring an end to carnage. For civilized man, violence is always a crime. But through the magic of television, the racists in America, in collusion with the Zionists, have de-criminalized all their violence against the brown race. The criterion is not the crime, but who has committed it and against whom. Brown against the white? It is terror. White against the brown? It is civilization. You don’t believe this? Check the record of America.
The corporate media “marketed” the carnage in Iraq as a conflict between “evil Iraqis” and “good Americans,” scripting the propaganda in the knowledge that the general ignorance of Americans about the outside world and the distance between them and Iraq will keep then unaware of the criminal conduct of America’s “brave soldiers.” And the brave soldiers have masters in the art of cruelty to show them the way: Israelis. They have already demonstrated how a well-equipped army can operate with barbaric impunity against civilians. Be proud America! You have sunk to the level of Israel.
“http://www.arabnews.com/?page=17§ion=21&d=10&m=6&y=2006&mode=dynamic§ionlist=no&pix=interact.jpg&category=Interact
Hey Ed! I say the movie “Munic” last night.
It was a great movie, although the ending really suck. But overall I liked it.
What did you think?
Joe, Peace would be better.
Now that al-Zarqawi is dead, that moves Ann Coulter into the number one leadership position.