From The Salt Lake Tribune’s new blog:
“People who noodle around the Internet a lot may find that the format of this particular Web page looks oddly familiar. People who read The Wichita Eagle online might see it as out-and-out plagiarism. Though I’ve warned Eagle Opinion Editor Phillip Brownlee what we were up to, and though the basic form of the Internet Web log, or blog, is pretty standard, I should formally acknowledge that we borrowed a lot of ideas from the Eagle’s WE Blog. And, of course, improved upon them.”
The “improved” part is debatable, but congratulations to the Tribune for taking the plunge into the blogosphere.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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33 Comments
Not quite, Phil. I went there and wrote a post, and got the, “it will be posted after the blog owners approval.” Not a good start. And it may account for the fact there are very few posts on any of the topics.
And you thought there were “moral police” in Kansas? Utah is a different world.
I would like to see the poster’s name placed at the top of his/her post rather than at the bottom. Someone told me they “couldn’t believe I said that.” Turned out they confused the poster’s name, me in that case, with the wrong post!
Agreed, Wink. Besides, there are some posters I always skip over, and having their name up front makes it easier to do.
Just as J M Walker said, the SLC blog hardly has anybody posting. It probably has to do with the sign-up and approval part of their blog.
Sign up and approval? Does the SLC Tribune make prospective posters click through a bunch of ‘free offer’ links as well?
Less is really more when it comes to forums like this. By keeping the policing minimal (deletion of the occasional porn link and CF’s more profane outbursts), the editors have let something happen that’s rather cool: a digital public square.
I’ve often wondered how many people view these entries, but don’t post their thoughts. Any opinions?
Not really, CF. It’s a digital square, all right, but one in which participants are allowed the the option to wear masks (we can post anonymously, e.g., as flike).
There’s something wrong with that, too. Clearly one result is that discourse can devolve and quickly as anonymous posters feel free to say things they’d never say in public – if their friends and neighbors knew about it and could discount their esteem of the poster’s wisdom accordingly.
I wish this were a public square, where speakers (writers) held their reputations accountable for what they say (write). In my opinion, the value of the opinions expressed here would be much higher – even if the number of posters was smaller.
Fuller disclosure: I post under a pseudonym because others do; to post under one’s real name while others do not is foolish imo. If this were not an option then I’d post anyway – and under my real name.
I read it daily and rarely post (in response to gster’s question).
CF, we need more of your posts, not less!!!!!!!
Go ahead and say it, Phillip. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Wishing the Tribune the best on their venture.
Hey, I checked out the SLT’s blog and didja see who’s among the Editorial Board Members?
George Pyle, that’s who! (former editor of the Salina Journal, and perhaps still currently a writer for kfg’s Prairie Writer’s group).
Pyle took a sabbatical from the Journal, I believe, to study ag economics. He’s a smart guy – I just might have to visit the SLT’s blog more often.
I have his book. It’s great. A little dense with the economics . . . I still have to finish it.
But lots of good info about how the ag market really works. And if you think it’s “free market and fair competition,” you’re not even close.
Big AG conglomerates totally dominate American markets, and the fiercely independent farmer has no power or influence.
If gov’t really wants to bring back the family farm, it needs to break up the monopolies that control prices.
And if you don’t believe it–quick, what is the spot market for chickens?
You can’t find it, because there is no market for chickens.
Tyson sells the farmers the chicks at their prices and buys them back at their prices.
It’s 21st century share-cropping . .
Interesting thought, to break up the monopolies. Doesn’t always work, tho. Look at the dismantling of the Bell System. What is happening now? Re-consolidation. From 7 “Baby Bells” to 3. “Ma Bell” is no more, having been bought by one of the ‘regionals’. Verizon merged with MCI.
I am not necessarily saying anything positive about the current ag monopolies, just making observations.
“If gov’t really wants to bring back the family farm.”
Uh, govt cant bring back the family farm. Only food consumers can do that.
Buy your food at the farmers market when possible. Make connections with local farmers for food in the off season. In the stores, buy organic, from small producers. Buy in season and you will buy less mass produced and foreign food.
If you support small ag with your food dollars, the remaining small farms will survive. If you dont…
…soylent green!!!!! Cargill cant wait!!!!!
flike,
I respectfully disagree with part of what you say. In times where those who dare to speak the truth face ostracism and retaliation, I think the real danger is not loose speech but the loss of speech.
Maybe I should call fewer people names; that’s debatable. But I think I’m pretty responsible with my speech, all things taken together. When I’m factually wrong I apologize, I’ve been known to concede a point, and to note when an argument I disagree with is well-made.
One of the benefits of anonymity is precisely the fact that, not knowing the opiner, one has to focus more on the opinion. Of course, some don’t. Raptor skips posts he doesn’t like, and that’s his right (good comment on the monopolies, by the way). But by not risking face to face confrontation, I may be more likely to say something that actually NEEDS to be said that I would in another venue.
Given the restrictions of public space and public speech in these neo-fascist times, and the culture of surveillance that is coming to pervade our society, this place matters an awful lot.
All, I read your posts most everyday, but do not post for several reasons. I don’t have a home computer so my posts would become public at my workplace. That’s enough to keep one quiet! But I often want to post, just have to be conservative about what I do say.
CF, I agree that loss of speech would do far more damage to American civic life than loose speech could do, but that’s not my point. I don’t think it would lead to loss of speech.
I think that posting opinions under real names, attached to real people, leads to better opinions for several reasons. One, they’re more likely to be better thought out and written. Two, they’re attached to somebody who’s reputation is held to account for them.
I think the net effect is a more cohesive society that might also benefit from a more dispassionate, lucid, public consideration of ideas. A twofer, if you will.
I don’t think this leads to loss of speech, although it seems reasonable to conclude it may lead to a different mix of speakers. The mix would change because some of those currently posting now might choose not to do so if their good name must be published to do so. However, it might bring on board new writers who won’t participate under any other condition.
Also, I suspect that some people stay out of the fray because it’s so “loose,” and many of these might have great but unshared ideas anyway. In other words, even if posting here is anonymous then some people who might have good ideas won’t write.
This is Kansas, after all. It’s built into most of us natives to do whatever it takes to fit in under the bell somehow. I know some very bright, if shy, Kansans who might stay silent rather than add to the loosidity (minor joke, sorry, “looseness”). And to your point, I also know very bright Kansans for whom this same cultural artifact of frontier life means they’ll express their opinion ONLY IF they can do so anonymously.
Wasn’t talking about you in particular, btw. I’ve seen you find areas of common agreement with others whose opinions you otherwise apparently detest, and I’ve seen you be very gracious about it, too.
deb,We understand your predicement and invite you to our picnic. Go to the open thread anfd let JR know you’re coming, or just show up. I’m sure there will be plenty of food, fun and friends. Blood will be kept to a minimum:-)
Flike, I was surprised to see George Pile’s name (face) on the SLT blog. George isn’t listed on the Circle of Writers anymore. I knew him when:He was indeed the editor of the Salina Journal. He drove the local conservatives batty! I think almost every conservative in the county threatened to cancel their subscription at some time or other. Considering how conservative Salina is, some of George’s editorials were breath-taking. There’s no such thing as “left” of George.
I met George when I worked at Public Access TV. He’s a very intelligent guy, but he’s pretty full of himself.
Guy from up north knows George a lot better than I do.
I noticed how few posts the new blog had. I don’t recall WE blog ever being that slow.
I’d think that might indicate they’re doing something wrong.
XXX,
Do you think I should head over and share some “Ianisms” with our Mormon friends? :)
V.L.R.B!!
Raising the state tax on alcoholic beverages by $1.00 a gallon will raise approximately 60 million. Those states that have raised alcohol taxes have not shown a significant decrease in consumption. A dollar more a gallon would raise the cost of an 18 pack of Bud Light to about $17 — and people will still buy it
Haven’t gone to look at this “knock off” blog yet. Have to do that later.
WE got off to something of a slow start ourselves! You can’t access the June 05 archive anymore but it was pretty thin for posts.
I think there are good sides and bad to anonymity. I speak from experience.
Deb and any of our readers is invited to the picnic. Just let us know on the Open thread that you are coming.
“Do you think I should head over and share some “Ianisms” with our Mormon friends? :)”
Ian, if you really think the editors will “approve” your posts in advance, be my guest! Hehe!
Here, at least, they delete them after the fact. No prior restraint.
(Yes, PRIVATE blog. We are here at their indulgence. Just pointing out the difference.)
“In times where those who dare to speak the truth face ostracism and retaliation, I think the real danger is not loose speech but the loss of speech.”
I suspect “Publius” or “Cato” would have something to say about that.
The hall of mirrors aspect is unnerving, but that could be fixed with non-intrusive registration, tied to user_name, e-mail address, and IP address, with only the first one or two displayed, perhaps decided by user preference.
I see a few similarities at this other blog. Not many though. I find it cumbersome. If the editors are gonna pre-approve the posts, I predict abject failure. Nothing against editors but the approval process will slow down the posts and they won’t be as current. Also, if you never know if you are gonna get posted, you can’t develop an arguement that goes more than one post.
We oughtta help these folks out. Somebody do a bonedig and send a link to one of our better battles or something. Show ‘em how it is supposed to work.
“XXX,
Do you think I should head over and share some “Ianisms” with our Mormon friends? :)”
Ian, be my guest. But I going to bet that your stuff is a little too “profound” for their Mormon tastes.
Now I don’t want to see some wuss post by you show up on the new blog. Show em what you got. Both barrels!
I went over and left a post at the SLC blog (if it’s approved by the censors). The sign in is a pain. I finally posted under the anonymous heading. George is going to have to do something about that, or his blog won’t go anywhere. Us bloggers can’t be bothered with a bunch of login stuff.
Agree that X. I’m gonna try to post there too later. What do ya bet I don’t get posted?
See that is why that blog is not gonna work. Make folks jump through hoops and maybe they don’t even get posted? Why bother?
You’re right, JR. It kind of smacks of censorship, doesn’t it?If George is the one doing the censoring, SLT blog will be liberal in tone.
Maybe all of us tired of yet another wingnut columnist for the WE should start posting there. Let the wingnuts have this blog and see how many hits there are every month.
Hope spring eternal that even wichita will get tired of the WE shilling for terry joe and fred.