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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted May 24, 2006 at 12:52 p.m.
- Filed under Uncategorized
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131 Comments
I think we should devote this thread to animals. Dogs, horses, pets we’ve loved and lost.
Try and bring us all together for a thread or two!
Hank
I currently have four dogs, three horses, six goats and twelve sheep. The sheep and goats are co-owned with a friend.
Currently in the process of getting another Beardie. Six month old puppy, looks to be a good herding prospect. If not, we’ll try agility.
Hank
Finally, Somebody has started fighting back against Fred Phelps. http://www.wgal.com/news/9259506/detail.html?rss=lan&psp=nationalnews
Dear Dingus,
In order to keep within the spirit of my request, Do you know if they used dogs against them?
Hank
That would be funny if someone did.
One dog – a very old Husky. Great with the kids.
Geewhiz Hank! I thought I had a zoo!We have 1 dog (mini-chihuahua) that is mine. He’s so cute and makes me laugh. 2 cats, Mamacat (got her at garage sale 7 years ago) is son’s, littlecat(otherwise known as damn it cat!) is daughter’s (she was dumped along w/ littermates on us – found homes for all but her). 3 rats – 2 are son’s 1 is daughter’s but they all stay in son’s room.The dog and little cat are about same size and play together, wrestling and chasing. While chasing each other they’ll run by mamacat and she’ll grab one and groom them, let that one go and go get the other to groom it.Rats will come out and play and groom mamacat (mamacat loves it,littlecat got too feisty once and got bit once so she avoids the rats).oh, does hubby count as animal – I’ll count him as a big ol’ grizzlybear. :)All really good w/ kids and very tolerant/understanding of the 3 year old.Just one big happy family!
Dear Julie,
Sounds like you’ld fit right in with Joyce and me. You’ve got evrything under control!
Hank
Dear Ben,
Huskys are great dogs! How old is ‘very old’?
Hank
What amazes me is the tolerance my dog shows to the kids. She is old and arthritic but has been real good about not biting them when they are too rough. However, as the kids get a bit older she makes sure they learn!
She has snesed their maturity level well.
I had an old cat when my son was born – he was 2 before she scratched him (for pulling her tail once too often!)
We’ve got two rescue dogs, we call them our yard dogs. One is a Beardie, Trouble, we have had him for about three years now. Got him from a puppy mill in MO. We never got him socialized enough to find him a ‘forever home’ so we ended up keeping him.
About two years ago we got a big old grizzly bear of a dog from the humane society, Buster. Don’t know what he is, they said he was a beardie so I went to look at him. As I was explaining to the lady that he wasn’t a beardie she started crying. He has heart-worm. She said. If you don’t take him we have to put him down today. I took another look at Buster and told him he was a beardie! Never found a home for him, so he’s ours now.
Samson is my herding dog. My buddy. We herd sheep.
Lily is a miniture schnauzer, 7 months old. Lily is mama’s dog. She rules the roost!
Horses later.
Hank
My parents had a cocker spaniel when I came along. She was so sweet and gentle. Family legend has it that she is the reason I learned to walk because I’d hang onto her tail as she walked so I’d walk too.We had to put her to sleep when I was 8 because of cancer and blindness – I cried for months.
Is anybody aware of the name of the book that rebuts the common notion that dogs think like people?
Dear Julie,
We lost three dogs last year. Monty, was my therapy dog, AKC canine ambassador. We did programs for the Rec Centers in the summer and visited a nursing home every month. Best dog I’ve ever had.
Lost Julia, Samson’s littermate, way too young. She was our Princess. Best sheepherder I had, but she wouldn’t mind.
Lost Momo, our Miniture Schauzer of 16 years. Momo was our first dog together. She was a horrible dog to everyone but us. We’ll always miss her.
Hank
Dear DD,
I’m reading one now, Animals in Translation. Very good book written by an autistic lady. I’ll post her name when I get home.
She believes that dogs think and process information similar to autistic people.
It might not be the book you’re thinking of, but I highly recommend it.
Hank
Here’s the link to Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0156031442/sr=8-1/qid=1148501078/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-5125867-5428048?%5Fencoding=UTF8
Hank,I’m so sorry for your puppydog losses.
Momos is what my 3 year old calls rubbing noses (eskimo kisses).
I’d like to train Oreo to be a therapy dog for seniors – any tips?
I have a brother-sister Sheltie tagteam–Bonnie & Clyde- they take pretty good care of me in the house they let me live in.
Concerning the protests in SEAFORD, Del.
With Phelps & his hateful family (98% of that “Church?” is nothing but his family.) going around the country & disrupting funerals of HEROS, what in the name of what ever God you have fath in do you expect? Milk and cookies?
Five people out of 1,000.00 attacking that hateful bunch of nuts IS NOTHING! One of these days, it will be the whole 1,000.00 going on the attack and this time there will be deaths. Mostly all of the Phelps hate cult will die and some good cops will die as well just trying to protect those hateful fools and those fools ARE NOT WORTH IT!
Anyone with an ounce of brains can see the hell coming where Phelps and his hate cult are concerned. Phelps and his hate cult need to be shut down for good and all.
I am proud of the five that did attack those fools and let them know that they were and are OUT OF LINE and NOT WANTED THERE AT ALL! I just wish I could have been there to help them and if that bunch of fools ever shows up in Minneapolis where I can get my hands on them, I WILL HAND OUT A CHOICE ASSORTMENT OF LUMPS, BROKEN BONES AND BRUISES!
If the State of Kansas will not (Or are too cowardly to.) stop them, I will do my best to stop them myself. And you can bet your last dime that there are others around the country that feel the same as I do.
The time of letting the phelps hate cult run loose and harm anyone that does not agree with their hate and then ducking behind the Bible and the First Amendment for protection are over.
If Kansas is to cowardly to do anything about phelps, I say it is high time for the American people to declare war on phelps and his hate cult and do whatever it takes to close them down HARD and PERMANENTLY!
I was married to a b . . . er dog one time. Does that count?
Thanks for link. I bet that is an interesting book. The author teaches at Colorado State, I think.
I have a 13 year-old schnauzer that I delivered as a pup. He’s been through some really tough times with me, times when he was the only friend I had. He still thinks he’s a pup and acts like one, but a couple months ago, he got real sick. I took him to the vet and found out he has diabetes. I was heartbroken because I thought I’d have to put him down. But the vet convinced me to put him on insulin. With the insulin, he’s right back to his old self. I have to give him shots twice a day, but that’s a small price to pay to keep my bestest buddy.
I’ve been an animal freak most of my life. I raised Dobermans for 20 years. I had as many as 14 macaws at one time and bred and raised them. I had a 3.5 foot long Nile Monitor and an Iguana that was 4.5 feet long. The Iguana ran loose in the house. He’d sit on the back of the sofa and sun in the picture window. One day, a short fat lady selling Stanley Home Products forced her way into my house, plopped her butt on my sofa, and started extolling her wares. Now I thought this was one brave woman, cause she was sitting inches from a huge lizard! She kept glancing over her shoulder and it dawned on me that she thought the lizard was stuffed or something. Finally she glanced at the lizard, he turned his head and looked back at her and licked his lips. The woman screamed, ran face first into the opposite wall (missed the door). She ran out the door and ran down the street, Stanley Home Products brochures flying everywhere.
An open thread on a Wednesday?
Is this the editors trying heartlanders semi weekly open threads idea?
Well Walker I don’t know quite what to say.
I was named after a dog. My mother had a white toy poodle many years ago who’s name was – Julie Anne. This dog was her child because she never intended to have human children. Well one day Grandpa was over visiting and when he left poor Julie Anne was behind his car. The end of Julie Anne. They had a funeral and all.Well a few years later whoops! along comes baby girl who my mother names (yup you guessed it)- Julie Anne. For years my mother has denied that I was named after the dog – she still denies it to this day. My Dad confessed finally confessed that yes I was really, truely and honestly named after a female dog.So – if I get a little b*tchy here on the blog – at least I come by it honestly.I really wish I was pulling your leg but it is 100% true.I’ve come to terms(and a lot of therapy) with it.
Dear Julie,
The Wichita Dog Training Club tests dogs to qualify them with TDI, Therapy Dog International.
The test is done in two parts, first part is the AKC Canine Good Citizen test. CGC. The AKC website will give you the details of what’s required. Then you do the TDI test. Both tests are $10.00
To get certified TDI you then have to get some paperwork filled out by your vet and then there’s another $25 fee to TDI when you send in your paperwork. Kind of a pain, but you then have $1,000,000 of liability ins.
Hank
Looks like we’re gonna have to obedience training first!:)
You’re going to need a little!
Hank
I share pets with my Dad.
I am the 2 legged adopted one in the family as my Mom says.
Hank – a question. What happens with aid dogs that don’t quite make the cut in training? Seems like they would be ideal adoptive pets.
We have two German Shepherds named Rommel and Patton. They are six years old and they are like kinder to us.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!!
TDI dogs are dogs owned by homers like me. They aren’t the companion dogs that go through months of training. The TDI test is mostly temperment. The CGC is obedience and temperment. Most dogs can be trained to get their CGC, but most dogs don’t have the temperment to be TDI.
The assistance dogs you are thinking of have a high drop-out rate during training and they all go to good homes!
Hank
Ian!
You lovable old white supremist you! Where have you been, we missed you!
Where did you get your shepards?
Hank
Hank,
It’s good to be “missed”. :) I got the dogs from an old client of mine back in Boston. They are great dogs with pure German bloodlines. They are great with the kids and very protective of the family and homestead.
PS: I am a White Nationalist/Separatist, I will leave the “supremacy” part to the historians. :)
V.L.R.B!!!
Thanks Hank. I’ll have to look into that – get a dog that is already ‘people-trained’. I think aid dogs are the most spoiled out there – they get to go everywhere with their person!
The dog-human bond is a perfect example of symbiosis.
Yikes, this seems to be rather worrisome!
Bird flu quarantine causes panic, people move from isolated areasAndreea Pocotila
The over 300 people placed into quarantine in the capital’s Sector 2 yesterday protested against the measures taken by authorities, as they fear confinement will endanger their jobs.The confirmation of bird flu in Bucharest forced authorities to place three streets in the Andronache Bucharest neighborhood under quarantine, isolating over 300 people who will not be allowed to leave the perimeter for the few next seven days.People found it hard to believe the authorities’ decision and some of them did take the measure seriously at the beginning. However, when they saw fences emerging in their yards and people with masks in their homes they realized the authorities were not kidding. The locals started protesting against the quarantine and said it hindered their activities, as they could not go to work or to school.Many of them accused authorities of placing their homes under quarantine without warning them and they were scared to see tall fences being built on their street all of a sudden with gendarmes in their homes. In addition, they were discontent that they did not have time to make food and water supplies.http://www.daily-news.ro/article_detail.php?idarticle=26607
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
My nose itches. I get hay fever around this time of year. Sucks!
:(
I’m feeling a bit unqualified at present to post about pets. But if I go back through, I guess that will make the difference.
My mom and dad raised Cocker Spaniels when I was really little. I had 2 yellow cats. We changed to Daschunds and Siamese a few years later and also raised parakeets, at one time having nearly 200 in one room.
When I was grown and married, there was a wide assortment of cats. (I’m a cat person, but love dogs, too.) My ex’s grandparents left their half-Huskie/half-Shepherd on the farm where we lived, and we had a Norwegian Elkhound. Tons and tons of cats. Later, we got a Chow-Chow, and after she was gone, another Chow-Chow (short-haired, that time). Both were extremely good with our kids. There was a Brittany hunting dog in there somewhere. I had 4 different Bassett Hounds and would have another if I could.
We were given a Manx cat shortly after we moved here, my oldest daughter has a ferret and 2 cats, next daughter has a cat and a brand new half-Lab puppy, next daughter has a cat that we baby-sit. They grew up with a wide assortment of parakeets, gerbils, hamsters, etc. And there were snakes in our old farm house at times, but I don’t really count them as pets.
I love animals, too. When it comes to dogs, I like ‘em BIG. Never have been overly fond of small dogs, but I know some prefer them.
Large portions of America will be under martial law as a result of bio-terrorism in the latter half of 2006 and into 2007 and beyond.
John Titor
We have two dogs and a cat. I got the cat in hopes that he would control insects around the house like a previous feline. I do not know how he got so fat, but I know it’s not from taking care of the insects.
Our two dogs are Australian Shepherds. Great dogs. The male is a rescue dog who was abused before we got him. He still flinches if I move to fast towards him. Heaven forbid that I take off my belt anywhere near him. We named him Samwise.
My very small dog has 6 legs and likes to run across the ceiling.
Ed,
I bet your very small dog also has an exoskeleton and feelers.
John Titor,
I trust that’s a prediction rather than a threat.
John Titor,
You really screwed up on a few things. Perhaps your memory isn’t what it used to be?
Q. Your enemy was in the cities. Was the President in 2005 also on the enemy side? How did you feel personally about the President then?
A. The President or “leader” in 2005 I believe tried desperately to be the next Lincoln and hold the country together but many of their policies drove a larger wedge into the Bill of Rights. The President in 2009 was interested only in keeping his/her power base.
(Watch out for this one, WE bloggers. Has anybody seen Bush acting Lincolnish? OTOH, the Bill of Rights statement has me going hmmmmm.)
And did anyone notice this happening?
“There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005.” (This was later corrected to 2004.)
I’m amazed I even kept this stuff.
Yo, CF, dat John Titor be an all knowin’ an all seein’ time travella 4 sho! rotflmosrfao
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Quote of the Day:
Eventually the influx of Muslims into Europe will trigger a backlash. Mass racism can be dug up and reanimated at any time (because human beings can turn nasty at any time). In the life of the mind, even criminal thoughts recur – and criminal ideologies. The death of communism, for example, has proved to be an exaggeration. One only has to look at events in Latin America, Africa and Nepal. When the next Great Depression overtakes the world, the communist cause will revive. The ideological struggle is constant and ongoing. No ideology ever wins a final victory. Truth itself rises and falls with the truthful.
JR Nyquist
V.L.R.B!!!
I bet you did not know that Ole Roy dog food is named after Sam’s second hunting dog? Yeah marketing did not think anyone would buy a dog food named “Useless bastard!”. Its a joke by the way…What was that?…. OH NO IT IS THE WAL-MART POLICE!!!!!
Right now there are two cats, two kittens and my mother’s dog, I found my outside dog dead last weekend. He was nearly eighteen and still a puppy at heart but his body just could not keep up. I tend to like animals better then people, so we keep our pets for quite a long time. Dogs love to be petted, people seem to think you are strange if you pet them!
BTW, the letter I had written about us is in today’s paper.
R.D. — Congratulations for getting your letter-to-the-editor printed in the Wichita EAGLE this morning. Good letter and complimentary to all of our bloggers. J.W.
Ian-bonics. Too much.
Somebody’s been hittin’ the cooking sherry again, I tell you what…
I saw that your editorial made it today writerdog. Good for you!
yes, RD
Congrats on the publication of your op-ed piece. Gee I can hardly wait to find out who gets to be the next American Idol or who gets kicked off the island !! Ooops….scratch that last sentence. :-)
Ok this is a thought I have been milling around in my head for sometime now. I know why I feel the way I do about G.W. It actually started just before the invasion of Iraq, with a feeling that something just did not seem right. I supported the invasion with some misgivings, saying to others that I hoped it was not just a case of fighting Daddy’s war. There just seemed to be too many others that were not on board for such a clear cut cause according to Bush. But I was still remembering the scene of G.W. standing with the rubble of the twin towers in the background and thinking he was the right President for this time. And I could not believe when this country was in danger, that the President would be taking such actions unwarranted.
But still there just seem to be something out of tilter with it, later I learned of the P.N.A.C. and how it was part of their end goals to have this country have a large footprint in the Middle East. The plan laid out starting with Iraq. Still it took looking at the member list of the P.N.A.C. to realize that a good number of their members were also members of Bush’s cabinet. Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfawitz, Peal, this list went on.Pieces seem to be falling into place and explaining rhyme and reason. A long with the explanations of why we were invading started to unravel WMDs those on the ground were stating that Saddam did not have much of what was said to be there.
For awhile I did buy into the reason that France did not want to join in and opposed the invasion was that they had sold parts for a nuclear reactor to Iraq. And did not want to be found out for that and other deals.
It would be a waste of time going through all that has happen since, but it has added to it to become more than a feeling. There are several good questions pro and con, one is if there is so much good evidence of Bush&Co. actions being either illegal or against all this country stands for. Why has there not been more action taken to stop him? If as some supporter have stated that WMDs have been found or at least what happen to them that cause us to not find them. Why with such finding that would only support the invasion and more important to the Bush administration vindicate and stop some of the talk . Has this information not been blasted worldwide and shouted from every street corner?
How much has this country being so partisan, explain the slowness of the action taken?Is it being used to cover the truth of the matter? Not to pick on them, but more to point this possibility out. Both Hank and Nathan answers seem to do more with this being a partisan game then a real threat. Perhaps that is how they see it, others that take the other parties view seem to be playing the same game.So it this all “Politics as usual” , or do you see it as a real threat to this country and as great or greater then any threat from Al-Qaeda? Bush can do more to destroy this country then a hundred thousand Islamic terrorists.
My thought on this could fill several pages, but it is not my thought I wish to weight. So where do we stand on this? What say you? To use some guttery language “Is it time to shit or get off the pot?” Before there is no pot to relief ourselves in.
To Hank Price, I really am sorry about taking this open blog into such a weighty subject. I love talking about pets and liked that you wish to use it as a medium that can bring us all to a topic that everyone no matter their views on the world could agree on. I have many stories, sad to say about pets from the past. As I mentioned my outside dog just passed last weekend and he was the only one left that was truly mine.His name was Titus and just a great big loveable mutt, funny just writing that has me doing something I do not do even when I put him in the ground. I will miss my friend…..
Well done, writerdog! I didn’t compare with the original, but it didn’t look like they changed a thing! (I won’t call you RD–even though that’s your real name—for the same reason I won’t call Mrage “Rage” ;-).
My blindness of the past few days has accentuated my personal difficulties (work and otherwise), so I must run away again! Back in a few, folks!
Glad your back Rage! Hope things get back on track soon!
Take care, Rage!
Look when people stand up to these people they run scared, a little violence never hurt anybody(exept the phelps’s)http://www.newszap.com/articles/2006/05/25/dm/central_delaware/dsn04.txt
This just in on Kenny boy lay, jeff skilling, and the whole bush and cheney loving enron gang.
From yahoo news:
“The former corporate titans are now felons facing years in prison after being convicted of running an elaborate fraud that gave the company a glamorous illusion of success.”
Wow, does that sound like bushco’s america?
“Jurors declared through their verdict that both men repeatedly lied to cover a vast web of unsustainable accounting tricks and failing ventures that shoved Enron into bankruptcy protection in December 2001.”
Could exposure of the lies of bushco and the bankruptcy of america be far behind?
Are these the investigations cheney and rove, et al want you to be afraid of if you vote for democrats?
Can you say “cooked goose”?
The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
Tee Hee
heheh dingus. they sound like heckler when you put truth up against his lies and spin
they disappear
I know the editors havent had time to respond since the enron verdict but I wonder…
…will we get a thread today? Or next week? heheheh.
Maybe they will recycle values boy and his bigotry first.
One trick pony. But the ponymeisters really like the trick…
So much good news today!
Lay and Skilling are going to jail probably forever…..or until bush pardons them.
The editors FINALLY noticed us. THEY are planning a meet up.
With all this good news, can tomorrow be Fitzmas?
Yeah JR, but at least for now, I still dont see an enron corruption thread.
values boy must be taking the day off.
So, we had an open thread, and a lot of people wanted to talk about “pets”, which we really know are animal companions. The Bible doesn’t talk about this. Oh, I guess, it really ISN’T a total guide to living.
Some of you think that dogs are the most loyal pets. Of course they’re loyal. But have you ever tried a parrot? Come home every evening, and get a wolf whistle that says, “Come and get me, I want to kiss your ear lobe and face.” Then go away for a week, and put her on your shoulder, and she bites your earlobe and nearly draws blood. “Where WERE you for all this time? Don’t leave me again.”
JR, did you see this?
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/14666290.htm
Heartlander,I’ve got a friend that has a 7 year old parrot that she takes EVERYWHERE! His favorite fast food is Taco Bell and he has to place his own order first otherwise he’ll talk over her. It’s absolutely hilarious!
No and thank you kfg. More good news that. Nice when a company can win the legal right to do a good thing.
Dear writerdog,
Sorry to hear about Titus. We lost three of our dogs last year, two of them way too soon. It’s going to be a while before my wife and I get over it. A very big part of our lives are centered on dogs. Our best friends are people with similar interests. We belong to dog clubs. We rescue and rehome dogs. I train dogs. We do herding, agility, conformation and tracking with dogs. When we take a break from formal dog stuff we’ll load up some horses and go to Missouri or Arkansas or Oklahoma or maybe Kannoplis Reservoir to go on a weekend trail ride. Generally we’ll take a dog or two! When we lose a dog, we’ve lost a precious member of our family, please know that I share your grief.As far as Bush goes, I really believe that he is trying to do the right thing with the war on terror. As far as Iraq goes there is a lot of things that I would have done different if I was in charge. I’m sure I would have been more aggressive. If you need to go to war, go to war. Don’t take little half steps and fart around.As far as being partisan goes, I am. Nothing wrong with partisanship as long as you are basing your partisanship on principals. I defend Bush a lot, but I only participate in a few of the threads. Bush wasn’t my first choice for president. Actually, he wasn’t on my short list! He offended me and a lot of other conservatives with his “compassionate conservative” crap. I’ve been a conservative politically ever since I can remember. It was a good campaign motto to fool the masses, but the implication was that conservatives weren’t compassionate until he came along.
That being said, GWB is the president. When we go to war he needs our support. I believe that the three best things that he has done are, beat Gore, lowered taxes, and beat Kerry. There is not a doubt in my mind that this country would be worse off with Gore or Kerry in office. I get on the BLOG because I think it’s important to enter the debate. I am truly amazed at the hate on the liberal side. I was embarrassed by Clinton, annoyed by Clinton, worked to defeat him in both elections that he won, but I never hated him.
As far as the PNAC goes, I don’t believe there is too much of a reason to get your panties in a wad. The Mideast and the free flow of oil are very important to our national security. One of the reasons we have men dieing face down in the sand is because of our energy policies for the last 50 years. There is a lot of blame to go around, but the democrats are more to blame lately than the republicans. Or, maybe to be more specific, the liberals are more to blame than the conservatives.
Why aren’t we building nuclear power plants? This country has enough enriched uranium to supply our electric power demands for the next two hundred years. Why haven’t we built a new refinery in the last 25 years? If you think the rag heads have as by the balls now, wait until we have to import gasoline instead of crude. Why aren’t we developing more methods to utilize the oil and gas bearing slate deposits out west? There is enough known deposits to supply our domestic demand for crude for 50 years. Why don’t we support coal liquefaction plants that the governor of Montana is pushing for? Coal liquefaction could reduce our dependency on foreign oil by 50% in ten years. Why are we pushing for more ethanol plants when it takes more energy to distill it than we get from it? It’s not a viable long-term solution and it relies heavily on government subsidies to even exist. Why aren’t we drilling offshore and in Alaska? With the modern drilling methods there is very little danger to the environment.
The answer to all of these questions is politicians. Most of which are democrats. Most of which are selling out to the wacko environmentalists. So I show a little partisanship when it comes to politics. Doesn’t make me a Nazi or any other of the cute names I get called merely because I care enough to debate you guys.
Hank
poo, boy’s been on the ‘puter again.
These filthy traitors should all be killed!
WASHINGTON May 25, 2006 (AP)— Legislation to secure U.S. borders and offer millions of illegal immigrants access to the American dream cleared the Senate on Thursday, a rare election-year reach across party lines and a triumph for President Bush.
The 62-36 vote cleared the way for arduous summertime compromise talks with the House and its more conservative measure with no guarantee of success.
“Why not say to those undocumented workers who are working the jobs that the rest of us refuse, come out from the shadows,” said Arizona Republican John McCain, a key architect of the bill.
The legislation includes money to better secure the borders, provide a new guest worker program and give an eventual shot at citizenship to many of the estimated 11 million to 12 million immigrants in the country illegally.
The bill “strengthens our security and reflects our humanity,” said Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., McCain’s partner in Senate compromise. “It is intended to keep out those who would harm us and welcome those who contribute to our country.”
Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., and the Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, both sided with supporters, a reflection of the bipartisan backing for a bill that was months in the drafting and survived several near-death experiences.
Conservative critics attacked the legislation to the end after trying unsuccessfully to pull it apart with amendments.
“This bill will not secure our borders,” said Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., one of the most persistent critics.
“This is amnesty,” added David Vitter, R-La., who tried last week to strip out provisions relating to citizenship.
Not so, said Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., chairman of the Judiciary Committee, in a rebuttal to weeks of debate. “They have to pay a fine. They have to undergo a criminal background check. They have to pay back taxes, they have to learn English and they have to go to the back of the line,” he said, referring to illegal immigrants who would apply for citizenship.
Still, Sessions, Vitter, John Cornyn of Texas and others echoed a view widely held among House Republicans, many of whom have vigorously denounced the Senate bill as well as Bush’s call for a “comprehensive approach” to the issue.http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2005269
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Thank Nathan/Hank for the answer, Though my conviction is solid. I still question it daily for a number of reason. Mainly because this is of the up most important to this country.********man that is cooler than I can say, the trip to go riding on weekends! I never had a horse and like so many always wanted one. I had a chance to get a Arabian stallion once in a trade for a station wagon we had. A beautiful horse in deed, but we were moving back to Kansas from Oklahoma and had no place to keep it. It was green broke and hackamore trained. For a stallion he had a pleasant temperament, LoL except when I slip off and cut a riding crop to try and convince him to move. I saw the bite coming and pushed his head back. I thought it might have been a bad idea before I tried it, he seem to think so too. The lady that owned him needed a car worst then the horse and I had made some brownie points with her when I brought a pick-up and horse trailer to take her Shetland pony she had since being a young girl to be put down. He had foundered when the pony got into some sweet feed and gotten down. I could not thank enough the Vet and the two different people that helped out with that. All I did was call the Vet in Chickasha and told him of the problem and he said if I could get the pony in he would do what he could for free. Then it was just a matter of asking one person for the use of their truck and another for the use of their trailer. Both loved horses and never gave it a moments thought.
I fully understand about the member of the family thing and pets, that is how I have always seen it. You should have seen my reaction when a punk that lived across the street shot my oldest son’s cat! More important he saw it and would not leave his house unless he knew I was not home. I guess standing in your front yard with a rifle screaming at the top of your lungs for the S.O.B. to come out so I could watch him thresh around from a bullet to the gut like he did with the cat. Might have convinced him to stay out of sight for awhile. But that was an extreme case, but shows how much I think of the animals that become members of the household.
In reguard to the Phelps segment of this thread heres my E-bay I’m serious, help fund me and I’ll stop him.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=9523437629&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
I have two old cats and a bird, and for the record my kittys hate Samson, sorry Hank! He is a beauty, I love to watch him run around my yard, so easy to see why he won best in show!
Are you going to Iraq, Nathan?
Dear Damoon,
Sammy San doesn’t see your cats. He’s a sheep dog! However, your cats still need to be wary, other dogs in the neighborhood aren’t as sweet as Samson.
Probably going to hitch Samuel up to the surrey on Monday morning, you going to be around?
Hank
Quote of the Day:
“There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.”Aldous Huxley’s lecture to The California Medical School in San Francisco in 1961
V.L.R.B!!!!
Damoon,
Yeah. Between June 15th and July sometime.
Nathan,
You come back in one piece, you hear! I served in the first Gulf War and this damned well better be the last one!
Make sure that your cardiovascular conditioning is up to form or the heat over there will really get to you.
V.L.R.B!!!
Call me boy.
pa
Ok, you’re a boy, lol!
Sorry Hank, couldn’t help myself.
When is the range open?
Hey XXX,
It’s open the second Saturday and Sunday and the forth Saturday and Sunday of each month (except winter).
Hours are 9am to 4pm. There is a $7 fee for adults, but I still like it better than Cheny, not as many punks with their little pop guns.
Has the boy emailed you yet? I’ll slap him silly next time I see him if he hasn’t!
pa
Damn, Nathan, I hope you can e-mail from that place, the blog won’t be nearly as much fun without you!! You better be careful, I know I’ll be thinking of you and praying for your safe return. If you can, keep us posted on what’s going on over there, nothing better than a bird’s eye view to ge the real scoop.I’ll be home tomorrow, Hank. If you and Samuel come by, I’d LOVE a ride!Love that dog, best hug I had all day!
Dear Damoon,
This morning would be perfect, but we got to get my dad to the airport. Our poor horses don’t get all the excercise they need, or want. Therefore I got to be careful with Samuel when its hot and muggy.
He loves to be driven, but I gotta be careful!
Hank
Hank thinks we should support this thread to animals . . . okay, how about the sorry animals that swiftboated Kerry?
Here’s photographic proof that O’Neill et al. are SOB lying pieces of sh*t of the worst ilk, and so are the people who SUPPORT THEM–http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/27/183054/806
I meant “devote” the thread to animals . . . damn, listening to our Prezidnt is rubbing off on me . . .
Dear Left Hook,
Hopefully the SBVT had a great deal to do with Kerry’s defeat. I personally contributed to their cause.
I’m afraid your “photographic proof” is a day late and a dollar short. But you and the rest of the lefties keep running the campaign against Bush, I don’t think he’s running!
Hank
Hank is correct that the proof of the lies is “a day late and a dollar short”; we now continue to have a president whose election and administration are based on lies. Swift boats. WMDs. AlQuada/Saddam connection.
Well done, Hank–instead of attacking the veracity of the article, you attack the effectiveness of the Swifties.
But that’s what YOUR Christian faith tells you, isn’t it: “might makes right” and “the truth won’t set anybody free if they don’t have the votes.”
Thanks for once again re-affirming the neo-con position–we win, so whatever we DO TO WIN is justified.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Well said, Ben. The American people will give the president a lot of latitude to act IF it gets results.
The results Bush got speak for themselves–replacing tyrrany for anarchy in Iraq, 3 dollar a gallon gas, historic high debt, historic high trade deficit, more dead soldiers, Iran and North Korea are well on their way to nuclear bombs, and we’ve got a firm committment to alternative energy in about twenty years or so.
But THANK GOD that Halliburton is doing so well.
And lastly, as far as “running against Bush,” you bet your sweet ass we’re running against Bush.
He’s the gift that just keeps on giving–one more serious hurricane should just about be the death knell of the Republican party for a generation, as Americans realize that the man on vacation who brought us 9-11 is the same guy who said Brownie was doing a heck of a job.
All the Dems have to do to campaign is just play Bush’s words back to him. I’d start with his speech in 2000 in which he said he was “against nation-building” and continue with Feb 2000, “Saddam Hussein is not a threat,” then “I’m dedicated to fiscal responsibility” (he grew gov’t by 35 percent in 5 years–Clinton REDUCED gov’t by 8 percent in the same time frame), and we have to “give the surplus back to the taxpayers.”
Oh he gave it back alright.
Worst. President. Ever.
And inflation is kicking up again and the dollar is tanking against foreign currencies, meaning that they’ll stop buying our bonds . . .
Other than that, things are flipping great . . .
Carter was one of the worst Presidents, Bush is just not the brightest one we ever had. So they automatically makes him a sucky President.
Carter was bad because he was such a leftist and weak spined.
As long as the GOP in Congress cowtows to Bush they should be tied togather.
Once again, Joe weighs in with the I-listen-to-Rush conventional wisdom.
Pay no attention, Joe, to those presidential historians who spend their lives evaluating the effects of presidents, you know, the ones in uniform consensus that Bush is appalling bad for the country and the world.
Rush’s motto should be: “tune in, turn off (your mind), and drop out of educated society.”
I thought that was Randy Rhoades and Al Franklin?
Presidential historians know a hell of a lot more than you do. So I hate to say it. But since you get your political education from Air America, Daily Kos, and Democrat Underground… that makes you an expert in Presidential rankings.
Says Joe who gets his news about progress in Iraq from the very unbiased links from the Pentagon!
I like Joe. He’s silly.
Yeah! Like the Pentagon is a propaganda arm of the Bush Administration and they tell nothing but lies right?
I’m sorry! I would trust the Pentagon Military news service than Al Franklin blow hard proganda that is mostly half-truths. I believe you guys have to pay him more millions to get him to be more accurate.
Have you watch the HBO Baghdad ER? That gives you a whole new perspective and look into the military. I’m sorry! I give way more crediability to the Pentagon than Al Franklin.
Like the Pentagon information about those “mobile WMD labs”? OOPS!
Ben,
Would it be a fair assessment that you think that most things that happen to America we deserved and brought on ourselves, while you think most of the bad things in the world are our fault because we are either complicit or allow it to happen?
No.
Would it be a fair assessment that you think that most things that happen to America are the result of lefty conspiricy and brought on by lefties, while you think most of the bad things in the world are their fault because we are either complicit or allow it to happen?
I like you Joe. You’re silly.
Who the heck is Al Franklin? Should I be listening to him?
Do you mean AL FRANKEN who we are not able to hear in this beknighted area? And since we cannot hear him, how would he be the source for our information?
And Joe? Going to the military for progress reports on the war is like walking into a restaurant and asking if the food is good. It may or may not be. But you will be told it is.
Because everyone is a liar and/or a stooge in the military to you JR?
Except for those few brave souls who dared to buck the system and say they disagree with Rumsfield, they are heroes?
Well, Nathan, the record of the current bunch in charge sure doesn’t create confidence. Mobile weapons labs. WMDs. AlQuada links. “We will be welcomed with flowers.” “Months not years” in iraq. “Turning the corner” again and again. “Light at the end of the tunnel” “Vietnamization will work” “Over 100,000 ARI trained” – in 2004.
When I was a kid, my parents bought me this blow up clown–it had a weighted bottom so that everytime you knocked it down, it just bounced backed up again.
Well, that’s Joe. No matter how many times I turn to the “liberal biased” reality of facts and smack him down, he just keeps coming back for more.
Okay, Joe, here’s today’s smackdown–
“There are some numbers. The History News Network at George Mason University has just polled historians (Dec 05) informally on the Bush record. Four hundred and fifteen, about a third of those contacted, answered — making the project as unofficial as it was interesting. These were the results: 338 said they believed Bush was failing, while 77 said he was succeeding. Fifty said they thought he was the worst president ever. Worse than Buchanan (the previous occupier of “worst president ever”).
This is what those historians said — and it should be noted that some of the criticism about deficit spending and misuse of the military came from self-identified conservatives — about the Bush record:
He has taken the country into an unwinnable war and alienated friend and foe alike in the process;He is bankrupting the country with a combination of aggressive military spending and reduced taxation of the rich;
He has deliberately and dangerously attacked separation of church and state;
He has repeatedly “misled,” to use a kind word, the American people on affairs domestic and foreign;He has proved to be incompetent in affairs domestic (New Orleans) and foreign (Iraq and the battle against al-Qaida);He has sacrificed American employment (including the toleration of pension and benefit elimination) to increase overall productivity;He is ignorantly hostile to science and technological progress;He has tolerated or ignored one of the republic’s oldest problems, corporate cheating in supplying the military in wartime.”
But old Joe, that free-thinking lone wolf who always seems to support Bush–with absolutely no evidence to back it up–declares that historians do too think Bush is a good president.
Wrong again . . .
Hank Price,
So, are you happy that your money paid for lies that smeared a war hero?
Do you believe that the end justifies the means?
Do you believe these are actions and beliefs that characterize an honorable man?
CF,
I wonder if you had any problem with the smear campaign waged against Bush’s military service?
It seems as if only now Kerry thinks of himself as a war hero.
I don’t think he tought of himself as that when he was throwing his medals…er ribbons…er someone elses medals…er someone elses ribbons…whatever away.
What doees it matter if Carter wasn’t a good president or what Kerry did or didn’t do in a war 40 yrs ago? Why is it that everytime the truth is presented about Bush, all you neocons do is try to counter it with who was a bad prez or who did or didn’t deserve to be a decorated war hero? What the HELL does that have to do with what’s going on today and the mess our country is in NOW?Joe, I have watched Bagdad ER and I’d recommend it to everyone who has HBO. It truly shows the reality of war, and the one thing I remember very well was one of the doctors saying “What a waste this war is” after he pronounced a soldier dead whose leg was blown off by an IED.Bush has done NOTHING for our country except contribute to it’s demise.History will certainly remember him as one of the worst presidents we’ve ever had.
Damoon,
Your purely objective and unbiased view on President Bush was enlightening…
Dear CF,
I think that Kerry is a self serving traitor. I think that the book, “Unfit For Command” by John E. O’neill and Jerome R. Corsi, PH.D. is very accurate in its details and proof.
You ask,
“So, are you happy that your money paid for lies that smeared a war hero?”
I am very happy that the Swift Boat Veterans were effective in exposing Kerry for the pompous ass he was and is. I am amused that when you tell the truth about a liberal it is always considered a ’smear’.
You ask,
“Do you believe that the end justifies the means?”
I believe the Swift Boat Vets have every right to enter the political arena. There is nothing dishonorable, dishonest, or illegal with the “means” these verterans used to expose Kerry’s record.
You ask,
“Do you believe these are actions and beliefs that characterize an honorable man?”
Of course not, if one was to beleive your premise. I don’t believe your premise.
I read the NYT article and I read the link to the Daily KOS. I found them to be filled with half truths and a bunch of “Kerry saids”. The new “evidence” is too little. It falls short of countering the vast amount of evidence and testimony compiled by the Swift Boat Vets.
But, thanks for asking. I am more than happy with the results of the last presidential election and satisfied that my money was well spent.
Hank
Damoon,
Are you talking about the decorated war hero Kerry who threw his decorations away?
Hank pretends that the photographic proof showing that the Swiftboaters lied and lied again is no evidence.
Well, Satan is a liar and the father of lies.
The trouble with you Baptists is that they don’t hold you down long enough.
BTW, nobody smeared Bush’s record.
He had no record. That’s the problem.
Nobody claims that Kerry wasn’t in Vietnam, but strangely nobody remembers the years that Bush was supposed to have spent in Alabama.
Somebody has offered 50 grand to anyone who can prove that Bush was in Alabama for any length of time.
A photograph would pretty much do it, wouldn’t it, like the kind that Kerry has . . .
Lefthook,
I don’t know any of the context of that photo, do you?
Pictures can tell a thousand tales.
Dear LeftHook,
Kerry has a picture with a bandage on his arm, so what? According to Kerry this picture was taken four days after the incident. What proof is there that the picture is what he says it is? Look at the picture very carefully, would you bet that the bandage is on Kerry’s arm?
The medical report for Kerry’s injuries on 13 March, states that he recieved a ‘bruise’ on his arm. That’s not a lie the Swift Boat Vets told, its an official Navy record.
Kerry’s third purple heart according to the citation was for a shrapnel wound to his butt. Many witnesses claim there was no hostile fire that caused his butt wound, but a grenade that Kerry threw too close trying to destroy a rice supply. Self inflicted.
If this is a valid picture, let me tell you what it proves to me. This is Kerry’s last purple heart. If it was taken four days after his injuries, it was taken on March 17th 1969. It shows John Kerry wrestling with his shipmates. It shows him in good enough condition that he has no apparent physical problems. It was taken on the same day, March 17, that John Kerry applied to be sent home because of his ‘third purple heart’. This picture is evidence that Kerry was a lying malingerer if in fact it was taken on March 17th.
No, LeftHook, I’m not ignoring the evidence. I see it for what it is. The pathetic attempt of a contemptuous man to start campaigning again for president.
I wish him well. The upcoming democratic presidential primary debates will be funnier than a SNL skit.
Hank
I am GLAD that Kerry lost.Wasn’tthat crazy about him anyway.That he lost because of the contemptible lies of people supported by contemptible liars and the worst among us is double good.
It gave bush another four years to expose the depths of misery and failure that Republicans inflict given the chance. This last further illustrates just how far they will go.
The 06 elections are the start. By 08 the GOP will be back under the little rock it crawled from under.
Let’s see, record stock market highs, more housing starts than any time in history, booming economy because of the tax cuts, more secure because we renewed the Patriot Act….
Yep we’re pretty miserable. I don’t know what world you live in JR, but misery isn’t part of my reality.
Glad Kerry lost? Another thing we aggre on!
Hank
That’s funny Hank I don’t remember addressing you personally. (I do avoid that as I think you have nothing really relevant to say)
….. “contemptible liars and the worst among us….”
Did you recognize yourself in that? Did you think I was speaking to you? I’d call that telling!
JR
Gold is flirting with 700 dollars an once, which means that hair-brained idiot doesn’t understand the Stocks are really only worth 6000 in real dollars, while the 4 dollar Jew-gas is eating through our economy like a Yiddish maggot.
All this while teetering on the edge of atomic war.
Bright future? Twice as hot as the sun.
Everything was just fine on the Titanic until it slipped beneath the water. They even had the orchestra playing.
Weak JR, Weak.
Of course, you were addressing either me or my boy.
It’s you and the other predictable lefties on one side of the ‘Kerry is a war hero’ debate and me and my boy on the other.
Read your post again, you’re the oe with nothing relevant.
Weak.
Hank
Nathan, if you don’t have one already, get yourself a laptop before you leave for Iraq. You and yours will be glad you did.
Nathan, my point was what difference does it make what Kerry did in Vietnam? No matter what you and yours think of his military record, at least he was there. The only thing close that Bush did was dress up like a figher pilot a few years ago and land on a carrier for a great photo op.I was unbiased when Bush took office the first time, now after seeing what’s happened to our country under his watch, I’m convinced he’s an arrogant moron.
Record stock prices, Hank? Please let me know where. My portfolio hasn’t hardly moved in 3 yrs. Housing starts? Have you priced real estate lately? Makes you wonder if our kids will ever be able to own their own home.How much is this war costing us? Is there and end in sight? How ARE things going in Iraq? You really think we’re more secure at home? We can’t even keep the Mexicans out!Maybe you should take off your rose colored glasses once in a while and really look at what’s happening here.
Driving a boat up a river in Vietnam was putting yourself in extreme danger. They were shooting from both banks.
How dare anybody berate any soldier for doing that.
Go fuck yourself.
Exactly Ed!
On May 4th, 2004 approximately 200 swift boat veterans signed an open letter to Kerry labeling him a liar and a fraud, unfit to be the commander in chief of the United States Armed Forces. Fewer than 10 percent of the Swift Boat veterans contacted declined to sign the letter.
The signers of the letter included almost every one of Kerry’s commanders in Viet Nam, 15 of the 23 officers that served with him in An Thoi (where Kerry claims to have been a hero), and a substantial majority of those who were with him during military operations.
These heroes spent a full tour of duty in Viet Nam, one full year. These heros have every right to form an organization and oppose Kerry’s run for president. Many of these men fought with injuries more severe than any of the ones that Kerry had and never applied for a purple heart. Many of these men had more than three purple hearts but stayed and completed their tour. These are the men that I proudly supported with my donation.
Almost every one of the signers of the letter did at least three times as much time as Kerry did “Driving a boat up a river in Vietnam”! How dare you liberal idiots call these brave men liars!Kerry was, is, and will always be a traitor to his country.
Hank
I didn’t mention Kerry. I said: “Driving a boat up a river in Vietnam was putting yourself in extreme danger. They were shooting from both banks.
How dare anybody berate any soldier for doing that.”
You brought-up Kerry.
His crew said that they were heavy with fuel and ammo and Kerry chased that VC with the RPG down and killed him.
They weren’t generalising about his fitness, just damned glad he chased that bastard down and killed him. One said if the RPG had hit the boat, they’d all have been toast.
Politics aside; this is just about fighting.
How much were those jerks paid to sign that thing?
Hank,
The records show a number of things that corroborate Kerry’s story, and give the lie to the lies of the Swift Boat liars–a group with which you have voluntarily identified yourself.
First point: we now know that Kerry did, indeed, ferry Navy Seals into Cambodia, as he said he had. Navy Records prove it. Swift Boat Liars: lying. Kerry: truthful.
Second point: Navy records also show that Kerry didn’t draft his own incident reports, as the Swift Boat Liars claim he did. Swift Boat Liars: lying. Kerry: truthful.
I’ll omit further consideration of the photos, except to say that if one looks at the photo of the American soldier standing in front of the corpse of the dead Vietnamese soldier, his posture leaves no doubt: it’s John Kerry. Obviously.
There are also pieces of the puzzle that we’ve known about for some time, that have been under-publicized. For one, William Schacte’s story doesn’t match up. He claims to have present on the boat during the firefight when Kerry received the wounds for which he was awarded his first Purple Heart. The other two men in the boat deny he was there. They also vehemently reject his claim that the boat took no ground fire.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408270009
In my book, two against one refutes Schacte’s testimony.
You cite the numbers of Swift Boat veterans who signed the letter. Big deal. They weren’t present for the events in question. And if we want to play that game, I’m happy to. Let’s talk about Steve Haynes, originally a member of the Swift Boat Liars, who, after seeing the project as nothing more than a political assassination based on lies, lent his support to John Kerry and exposed the group’s agenda and tactics.
And, to be frank, the Swift Boat attack is now becoming so familiar that it loses even more credibilty. You and your fellow-travellers have mounted pretty much the same character assassination against Frank Murtha for daring to stand up to Bush. The novelty of the attack worked against Kerry: it’s much less effective the second time around. And the fact that the attack sounds so familiar tends, on reflection, to undermine the first version that was thrown out there. I mean, “self-inflicted wound in the buttocks.” That’s SO transparently directed at undermining Kerry’s masculinity that there’s no doubt, in my mind at least, that the slick media operatives who ran the campaign made it up.
And really, as O’Neill’s response shows, the real substance of the attack isn’t Kerry’s official Navy record: it’s his testimony before the Senate and in the Winter Soldier hearings. Well, I say, THANK GOD for John Kerry. His courage contributed to the ending of a war that NEVER should have happened, a war that, if O’Neill and his Nixon-era thugs had their way, would have continued much longer, with who knows how many more dead and wounded. And thirty-five years later, the war-loving Right Wing still hates him for having to courage to testify before the Senate about the truth. The truth. You Republicans may want to get reacquainted with the truth before you lose all ability to grasp it.
You have a lot of nerve, Hank, calling John Kerry a ‘traitor.’ Your money funded deliberate lies and character assassination.
You want to call some names? By funding lies, you’re a liar.
I like “Go fuck Yourself” it’s more to the point.
Ed, that’s some funny shit, I tell you what…
It aint MY fault if you see yourself in a post I make where I do not address you personally Hank. I posted as to contemptible liars and you say I was addressing you? Well if you think the shoe fits I guess.
The issue was the trashing of a combat veteran, namely John Kerry. In dispute was his injuries. Perhaps you would care to share bush’s combat injuries? His combat record? His service record?
Weak JR,
You’re getting smaller.
Hey, You can get hurt falling-off a barstool. Bush could have been awarded a “purple ass.”
Dear CF,
Again your ‘evidence’ doesn’t stand up. In both your points the so-called-evidence is merely what the lying traitor Kerry tells us. He does not produce the documents, he only tells us he ‘found’ them.
He signed Form 180 to allow his man only to research his records. Now the traitor can pick and choose what documents he uses to perpetuate his lies.
Nice try though. He’s running for president again. If you think the Swift Boat Vets were tough on him wait till the Hildabeast gets through with him!
Hank
Traitor? That’s a new one. That fantasy must come from the same place that Deserter-boy’s claim to have finished his Air National Guard commitment rests. I did my time and have people that can attest to that fact- have you ever heard the Shrub make that statement? All I know is the Commander of his unit at that time, did not know Jr was there.