No doubt some Americans will be disappointed that a jury rejected the death penalty for Zacarias Moussaoui, the only alleged 9/11 plotter to stand trial for the attack. But the life sentence he received provides fair justice, considering the prosecution never firmly established Moussaoui’s direct involvement in the plot. Moreover, there was a real danger the death penalty would backfire by making Moussaoui a martyr for Islamic militants to use in their recruitment efforts.
Let him rot in prison. He’ll inspire no one there.
Posted by Randy Scholfeld
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46 Comments
You have no clue as to how many he will inspire in prison, but if you think for one minute they are going to prevent him from communicating with people on the outside, think again. It simply is not going to happen. He will not rot in prison, he will thrive. He will become an instant celebrity in prison, and become the institutional Iman and teacher overnight. He will write, and at some point he will get telephone privledges and visits. He will find useful idiots to carry his message and do his bidding. He will have religious fanatics that will take up his cause, send him money and make an important person out himself within prison society.At some point in time, he will in all probability find a legislator in a black robe that is going to believe his every revised word, and be set free before anyone in the press or population knows anything of it. This is the reality of prison life in the US despite what you are led to believe.
I heard on TV last night that he’s going to a supermax in Colorado where he’ll spend 23 hours a day in his cell and have no contact with other prisoners. He’ll have a TV in his cell that carries religious and educational broadcasts. They showed footage of the place. He won’t even be able to communicate with prisoners in the adjacent cells. I suspect he’ll wind up like Charles Manson or Sirhan Sirhan.
I think rather than being revered in prison, there’s a good chance he’d be killed if he got put in the general populace. The guy is a nutcase.
I think life in prison is good punishment for him. Although I would hate to see his case get dragged through the appeals process.
Since it will, I doubt we heard the last from him.
Different culture, different values. As I learned from my late step dad who worked in Saudi Arabia for years…the culture is something we do not understand. Attempts to put Saudis or other Arabs in jail were not a deterrant. The attitude was, “hey, I don’t have to work today, and I get fed”.
Time spent in lockup is not as much of a punishment to some people as it is to others.
I think he should be locked up for life, but I think his entire diet should consists of nothing but pork and alcoholic beverages.
While the supermax is a good idea and I understand Sooorry’s point of view that he will become an icon; I still think that he should be incarcerated in New York or New England (is SingSing still open?) and let people that were somehow affected by 9/11 see him everyday. Let the Aryan Brotherhood have “fun” with him. Watch him become a sniveling, pathetic excuse for a being (wait! that’s already happened)
But yes Raptor, a pork based diet (mmmm, smell that bacon) sounds like just the ticket. He will be forever soiled and cannot have his 70 virgins in paradise. Ain’t that a cryin’ shame.
He’s better than you are and that’s got your goat.
That soldier came over here to make war on the very people who have been financing the slaughtering of his people for the passed 60 years.
The atrocities he was avenging are as disgusting as listening to you drooling your self-righteous vengeance.
If the Zionists hadn’t twisted your thinking, you’d see this situation clearly.
This soldier should have been sent home. And the United States should make peace with the Arabs for all the wrongs we’ve done.
We used to act that way when we were a great country. Before we started doing the Zionist’s bidding for them and acting like them.
Considering that Moussaoui changed his story on the stand repeatedly, was given to irrational outbursts making a strong case for insanity, and the only real evidence the prosecution had against him was that he had trained with Al Qaeda and he wanted to learn how to fly an airplane, the prosecution was lucky that they were able to make anything stick.
Using the same criteria, anyone who trains with our homegrown terrorist groups like the KKK and White Aryan Resistance (WAR) should be locked up too.
It also didn’t help Moussaoui’s case that the Bush administration wasn’t allowing any other Al Qaeda people to testify.
No need to actually try to find out the truth when the verdict is a foregone conclusion . . .
Sorry XXX but what you saw on TV is what the prison administration wanted you to see and believe. I assure you it is far from the truth. They cannot prevent his talking to the other inmates, and I hate to tell you this but if you have ever been inside a supermax you will be disappointed even more when you see the telephone inside all their cells , compliments of AT&T.As far as him being in danger in general population, forget it. He will be a celebrity when he gets there. InstantlyAs far as his TV they will give him, I have seen that trick too. They tell the public that they only get religious and educational tv, but in reality, over time Showtime, HBO, and all the rest are removed from the block. It happens every ti me where ever you goHe will not rot there, in fact his life will become so cushy within 30 days he will become accusom to it and when the time comes, he will balk at going to general population because he is so happy where he is.He will have at some point canteen privliges that allow him to spend 50$ per week on cases of soda, potato chips, candy, cookies, canned food and every other sort of snack he could possibly enjoy while kicking back watching TV in air conditioned bliss.
Sooory,When was the last time you heard from Ted Kaczynski - the Unabomber? He is in the same Colorado prison where Moussoui will be going. The situation you describe, might happen in a state correctional system, but not with the Feds. The Feds have a way of setting themselves above all of the standards of conduct they impose on the states (and that was true, even before this Bush administration). I predict that Moussoui will disappear into the black hole of that Colorado prison. A good outcome, in my opinion.
Bush’s handlers do not consider justice as anything of value or worthwhile.
The Kangaroo Court is all they know { notice Saddam }.
They’re Zionist-Jews { not good Jews } which are little more than psychopathic butchers, herding their adoring pathetic followers along.
XXX is correct, the guy is looney tunes.
I know that Daffy Duck has fans, but that ain’t the same as a following. Moussaoui is one of the ORIGINAL tin-foil hat guys.
Sooory, you’re positing that the world is headed for insanity if a guy like Moussaoui can inspire anything other than marginal followers. If that’s the case, then who cares what Moussaoui does, his message won’t be distinguishable from that of the pope because we’ll all be too crazy to discriminate.
I don’t think that’ll happen even if Moussaoui has his own television program. He’s insane, and it’s so obvious that even Al Qaeda didn’t want him - even as a human bomb.
Sorry,
Have you ever been inside the Florence Supermax? Doesn’t sound like it.
Here’s a description of the cells, and a link to a illustration.
*********************************
“ADX Florence is generally home to between 400 and 500 male prisoners. About 22 percent of inmates have killed fellow prisoners in other correctional facilities; 35 percent have attempted to attack other prisoners or guards. As a result, most individuals are kept for at least 23 hours each day in solitary confinement. They are housed in a 7-by-12 foot (3.5-by-2 meter) soundproofed room, built behind a steel door and grate. The remaining free hour is spent exercising alone in a separate concrete chamber. Prisoners rarely see each other, and inmates’ only human interaction is limited to that of the prison guards. Religious services are broadcast in from a small chapel.
Most cells’ furniture is made almost entirely out of poured concrete, including a desk, stool, and bed covered by a thin mattress. Each chamber contains a toilet that shuts off if plugged, a shower that runs on a timer to prevent flooding, and a sink missing a potentially dangerous tap. Rooms may also be fitted with polished steel mirrors bolted to the wall, an electric light, a 13-inch black and white television, and a cigarette lighter. Windows in rooms are small, set high up in the wall, and point towards the sky, confusing the prisoner as to his specific location within the complex.”
http://www.newspagedesigner.com/portfolios/portfolio1.php?UserID=4829
***********************************
You may want to take a look at those revenge fantasies of yours.
I think he’s where he belongs, I’m sure he’s disappointed that he didn’t get to be sacrificed for “the cause”, thus losing out on all those celestial babes. Spending his life in solitary confinement, even if you have a phone and TV, is far better punishment than being put painlessly to sleep.Ed, he’s no soldier and deserves no respect whatsoever.
Right and wrong Darwin. You are correct that in many ways the feds do not follow the guidlines the same as they impose on the states, however the very same conditions and many are better at the fed. You don’t hear about it, because one thing they do is completely eliminate access to reporters, and are much more efficient in enforcing the gag order imposed on staff. They have the PIO position down to a science.If you think for one minute fed time is harder than state crime you are falling for the biggest trick ever pulled on American Society. I even know an inmate that tried to kill his lawyer because the guy assured him that he could arrange to have him serve his federal time before doing his state time. The dumbshit judge ordered the guy to be unshackled for his trial, and as soon as the judge announced his sentence he promptly attempted to strangle his own attorney on the spot.It is a cottage industry within many state institutions to find a way to get transfered to the fed, either through additional cimes, litigation, lawsuits etc, because Federal time is easier than state time as there is, “a better class of inmates” according to the thousands I have talked with.
“I even know an inmate that tried to kill his lawyer because the guy assured him that he could arrange to have him serve his federal time before doing his state time. The dumbshit judge ordered the guy to be unshackled for his trial, and as soon as the judge announced his sentence he promptly attempted to strangle his own attorney on the spot.”
When and where was this incident? I mean, surely it was news. Can you provide some reference for that?
You make prison sound so good, I wanna sign right up. I wonder if you can provide any backup for ANY of the statements in your post?
I’d like a little proof on this one too.
“It is a cottage industry within many state institutions to find a way to get transfered to the fed, either through additional cimes, litigation, lawsuits etc, because Federal time is easier than state time as there is, “a better class of inmates” according to the thousands I have talked with.”
Thousands? Then surely there must be some research on that.
CF,To answer your question yes I have and what you are attempting to sell is a sales pitch. Firstly, the layout and furniture are no different than almost any other max seg cell anywhere.Revenge? How does telling you the reality of what it is like, and correcting the misconception that this guy is going to spend the rest of his life locked down 23 hours per day a revenge fantasy?
How about some backup on those memes?
Sorry,
I’m with ksfarmgrrl on this one. Can you provide backing for the factual assertions you are making, both with respect to the event you recount and for the widespead breach of DOC policy that you allege?
I have no doubt that inmates would rather do hard time at a Federal institution than a state one. That’s old hat. But all Federal prisons aren’t Supermax prisons. Have you been to the Florence facility, or haven’t you? And in what capacity?
Judging by the tone in which you discuss the possibility that prisoners ‘kick back in air-conditioned comfort,’ you seemed pretty incensed. But I’ll grant that I cannot know whether your motive is to set the record straight or a general desire for revenge.
Ksfarmgrll,The best I can tell you is that most research and statistics compiled about institutional life are done so with a limited amount of purposes and usually done only to support an administrative, political or legislative (budgetary) goal.I speak from many years of experience working in the old A&T building at what is now called Lansing. It contained nothing but inmates that 1) other states could not handle 2) inmates that killed other inmates and officers 3) Inmates that were so criminally insane that even mental heath facilities could not handle them. It is the building that El Dorado was very poorly designed to replace, which is why they tried to turn it into a medium security facility right after they built it if you will recall.If you are really interested in pursuing the issue, the name of the inmate that I referred to was Dave Nicholson. I am sure that his lengthy public documentation is avaliable, however, do not expect help from the KDOC. Inmates have more rights to privacy than you do these days.
“The best I can tell you is that most research and statistics compiled about institutional life are done so with a limited amount of purposes and usually done only to support an administrative, political or legislative (budgetary) goal. ”
So….that would be no on the factual backup?
Ok, if it is just your opinion, that is fine. Just dont hold it out as fact.
And again, is Lansing the same as Florence? To repeat CF’s question, have you been there? Do you know the differences?
I think living in prison would be far worse than death. If prison IS worse than death, wouldnt prison be the better punishment?
Or is that at the heart of your problem? You think prison isnt worse than death, and you think it should be.
Maybe for the non lifers we should just post the sign from Dante’s ninth inferno: “abandon hope all ye who enter here”.
That ought to encourage rehabilitation and good behavior of prisoners.
Without seeming to assume too much, I’m gonna guess from posts here and elsewhere that sorrry is a prison guard or official. Maybe that could be clarified? In what capacity are you involved in the penal system?
But going on that assumption, sorrry may be better informed but also somewhat biased. Life in prison probably does not look so bad to someone who sees it everyday. I imagine you get used to the environment like any other work place. The lives of the inmates in your constant charge must seem quite cushy in comparison to your own when you have to leave at the end of the day and feed yourself and pay bills. So you probably lose sight of the reality that…
YOU get to leave.
Just for me personally, I’d rather be put to death then live like Mousawi or the Carr brothers or Dennis Rader. They are alive and that’s about all. They have nothing and no hope and the knowledge that that is not gonna change period. And they deserve it.
CF,I have not now nor have I ever held a desire for revenge. To be honest, there was even one inmate housed in the AT&T building that was a friend of mine when we were in grade school. (Keith Brantly, AKA Saladin, AKA Slim Gator, AKA Edward Keith Brantley and several more) Furthermore, I met many people serving time over the years, I could have seen myself calling a friend had circumstances been different.To answer your question, yes CF I have been to Florence, toured it and declined going to the fed due to divorce and visitation issues.Let me explain my issue with “air conditioned comfort” with the reality of the situation. If you were an inmate living in a maximum security prison cell in a max unit containing no luxuries such as a personal shower, air conditioning, telephone in your cell, 3 hot meals per day delivered to your door, and a free TV. What would be the simplest and fastest way to improve one’s standard of living? By the inmate’s way of thinking, it is easy. Just kill someone and you get an air conditioned private cell twice as big as what you currently have with all the trimmings.The term SuperMax is a selling point that somehow justifies the outragously inflated cost of prefabricated prison construction. The fact is they are far cheaper and less secure. They sell them as highly restrictive units but in truth only a very small part of the facility is actually a seg unit and nobody, but nobody is left in them to “rot”. The prison officials tout how restrictive the life is, but they really rely on passification and the imates happiness to maintain control.
The word “terrorist” is a misnomer, haven’t you figured that out yet?
Bush: “We’re fighting the insurgents, but if we leave the “terrorists” will have won.
Now, see how it works?
Sooory, what exactly is it you want Moussaoui killed for? As you may (or may not) recall, Moussaoui was incarcerated on 9/11. He claims to have been part of the 9/11 conspiracy, but this nutcase has claimed a lot of things that are pretty questionable. Let’s keep in mind that killing him is what he wants. In his mind, that would make him a martyr (go to heaven, have 72 virgins, etc). Al Queda even considers the guy a nutcase and too unstable to be of any use.
I find most of your tirade on this thread pretty suspect. Being a janitor at Lansing, or whatever you claim to be doesn’t seem to make you an expert. Your contention that the federal penal system is some kind of giant hoax seems a little fishy to me.
NPR report below:”Day to Day, May 4, 2006 · Zacarias Moussaoui’s sentence means he will be sent to a super-maximum federal prison in Colorado. The high-tech, highly secure jails are controversial among human and civil rights advocates, because inmates have little or no opportunity for human interaction, education or reform. Karen Grigsby Bates reports.”
Link here:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5382725
So, we are getting two different stories here.
My experience with Federal Court comes from the 1980’s and involved my work for a business that provided services to men and women on Federal probation/parole. Almost exclusively these offenders were drug offenders or people for whom a drug problem was detected at some point during supervision.
What would be considered intensive supervion by state offenders, was the norm for offenders on federal paper. This involved calling an answering machine every day to determine if one was to provide a urine drug screen that day. Having to give a UA on two consecutive days was not uncommon + there was a sliding scale as to how many UAs one had to give per month - hence, there was no way to predict one’s drug screen obligations. Many offenders were returned to prison for violations and many elected to discharge their obligation to the Federal Court by staying in prison rather than deal with the expectations that were part of Federal parole system.
The Feds had an infinite amount of resources and they had the time to be intrusive in offenders’ lives. I think it is too bad that the state can’t give has much supervision as the Feds did.
The average Fed offender, it seemed to me was smarter and more sociopathic than the average state offender - there were always exceptions to this rule, of course.
My information is dated and may be restricted to the District of Kansas (at that time), but I concluded that if I every had an parole/probation obligation, I wanted to be indebted to a state court rather than a Federal one.
This whole thread illustrates how the Moussaoui trial and punishment were sort of a bait and switch to the public.
The real mastermind of 9/11 remains free. Ossama been forgotten? And the other government failures? All forgotten in the hatred of this little pissant.
A woman who lost loved ones on 9/11 pounded away yesterday at the fact that George Tenet and two FBI agents were given a pass after they refused to issue FISA warrants and information and why does the City of N.Y. still not have their act together.
BREITWEISER: “Yes, I have to say two things really. No. 1, now that the Moussaoui penalty phase is over, I certainly hope that the information will be flowing freely to the American people.
For four years, I and many other 9/11 family members have fought very hard to have information released go the public, information about governmental failures. We were always told that we couldn’t have that information because it would harm Moussaoui’s right to a fair trial.
Having said that, I would appreciate someone asking either Senator Biden or former Mayor Giuliani, if their standard for death is withholding information from the FBI that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks—how then are we excusing FBI agents Maltbie and Frasca, who were accused, or allegedly accused in the Moussaoui penalty phase itself, of being criminally negligent with regard to giving a FISA warrant.
How would you explain George Tenet, who withheld information about two of the 9/11 hijackers for 18 months from the FBI—information that certainly would have gone a long way into preventing those attacks.
And I’d like to know, where are we drawing the line here, what is the threshold, and why are we not holding those types of people in our own government accountable?”
Michael Isikoff did make some sense on Hardball yesterday.
Isikoff: This entire Moussaoui trial was a side show. The Justice Department indicted him at the time, they thought he might have been the 20th hijacker. They later learned he was not. But there was a feeling, that for altogether understandable reasons, that the country needed a trial, the cathartic effect of a trial to deal with the most horrific crime in American history.
What this trial ought to do at this point provoke a debate and discussion and concentration on why we haven`t tried the people who were responsible for 9/11. But there was a feeling, that for altogether understandable reasons, that the country needed a trial, the cathartic effect of a trial to deal with the most horrific crime in American history.
But the point is that after the time that they indicted Moussaoui, we came to get into custody the people who were directly responsible for that crime, the architect, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed Ramzi bin al-Shibh, who was Mohammed Atta`s collaborator at every step of the way — twice in 2001, Atta leaves the country to consult with Ramzi bin al-Shibh about the for the attack — the financier who was also in custody, Qualli bin Atassh (phonetic) who helped planned it at the Malaysia meeting.
But the government has been completely stymied about what do to with these people. Why — and this is the one where it is really worth connecting the dots. It goes straight into the White House, the Oval Office and the vice president`s office because key decisions were made about aggressive interrogation techniques that were going to be used on these people.
I think the outcome - imprisonment, rather than the death penalty - indicates on some level, at least, the Jury in this trial got that “bait and switch”.
The outcome was a vindication for the American people - which is different (unfortunatly) from our government.
XXX,When did I even once say I wanted him killed? Personally I would much prefer someone like him be stored in an offshore facility controlled by strictly by the military where there is no chance he has the ability to manipulate innocent or ignorant civilians for the rest of time. I don’t care much for the idea of his recieving the same privlidges and rights as American inmates period. Like an inmate told me when I was brand new and as naive to inmate mentality as civilians are. “God Damn, “My Name”. I might be a f#$%in inmate, but I am still 100% American and not a traitor.” This was during operation “Just Cause” in Panama after I expressed surprise at all the cheering when the ivasion was announced on the news.My only point and purpose was simply to dispell the distorted misinformation being fed to the media about the reality of the life this guy will lead. I simply detest governmental breaucrats lying to the public when it is just as simple for them to say, “We are not telling you because we do not have to, for we are the government.”
Darwin,There was a major difference between state parole supervision and the federal system in the 80’s that made it appear more stringent but that was the limit of it. The feds had a minimum of 2/3 of the sentence be served before even being considered eligible for a parole hearing.The Kansas system had indertminate sentencing that in effect guarenteed to return the inmate into the system at some point during his parole. If an inmate had a sentence of 2 to 10, and got out on parole after 2 years, he remaind under KDOC supervision for the remaining 8 years, subject to return for anything as little as contacts with a law enforcement officer. In fact, any violation of any law for any reason was cause for return. What is more, any KDOC employee (including a secretary if she wanted) was authorized under the conditions of parole to enter, without knocking, his or her place of residence. Inmates actually chose not to accept parole rather than live on paper with the state of Kansas breathing down their necks for the next few years.
Jokes from Muslim stand-up comic Goffaq Yussef.
Good evening gentlemen, and get out, ladies.
On my flight to New York there must have been an Israeli in the bathroom the entire time. There was a sign on the door that said, “Occupied.”
What do you say to a Muslim woman with two black eyes? Nothing! You told her twice already!
How many Palestinians does it take to change a light bulb? None! Theysit in the dark forever and blame the Jews for it!
Did you hear about the Broadway play, “The Palestinians”? It bombed!
What do you call a first-time offender in Saudi Arabia? Lefty!
Did you hear about the Muslim strip club? It features full facial nudity!
Why do Palestinians find it convenient to live on the West Bank? Because it’s just a stone’s throw from Israel!
Why are Palestinian boys luckier than American boys? Because every Palestinian boy will get to join a rock group!
A Palestinian suspect was being grilled by Israeli police. “Honest, I’m not a suicide bomber,” he said. “I didn’t say I wanted to blow myself up so I could sleep with 72 virgins. All I said was, ‘I’m dying to get laid!’”
What does the sign say above the nursery in a Palestinian maternity ward? “Live ammunition.”
Palestinian girl says to her mommy: “After Abdul blows himself up, can I have his room?”
Walker, those are wicked funny!
Zacarias Moussaoui is the “high-wire” act in the Zionist circus and wait and see how many naked Palestinians the Zionist clowns can stuff into a Volkswagen.
All you kids be real good now or you don’t get to see the Mossad blow-up the Volkswagen.
Next month the Zionists will Nuke the VW.
Won’t that be fun?…….
Sorry,
Good posts. Frankly, I have some difficulty accepting that, as facilities, they are as porous and different from their stated reality as you say they are. I guess it is possible, given how they have been marketed as a band-aid and a cure-all. Still, the psychological breakdown brought on by that kind of incarceration is well-documented, and it seems difficult to imagine it would have such effects if it weren’t practiced as advertised–total isolation.
I appreciate the thoughtful posts.
CF,I’m glad someone can appreciate it. Seems to crush the very being of some to find out “SuperMax” is other than what they are told it is.You are quite correct about a psychological breakdown that occurs after a period of time in total isolation. I have seen it first hand and it can be very ugly. In fact horrifying even to the hardest of us the first time they see it.It should be noted however, that the this is in cases where isolation is truely isolation without stimulation, or anything other than the individuals own mind to pass the time.In enviorments such as Florence, El Dorado, etc this simply is not the case as the inmate becomes very comfortable and accustom to his saftey zone. I have seen people that after as little a 30 days refuse to leave even though they had no protective custody issues. They simply liked it. I have seen the other range of this mindset also and knew an old guy by the name of James Costello, AKA Coz, that lived quite happily in A&T (Adjustment and Treatment, the name of the unit adopted after the supreme court ruled solitary confinement unconstitutional) for 13 years, refusing to leave or eat anything other than 2 peanutbutter sandwiches per meal for 13 years. He was the only successful hunger striker to actually drive the administration into submission after 44 documented days without food.On a side note, please do not think that the description of what a “SuperMax” is supposed to be is anything other than they origionally intended. That is exactly what their origional intent was, but over time there are a whole host of factors that erode the reality of the terms and conditions in which inmates are stored, including people developing relationships, court orders and litigation, laziness, political interference, corruption, lapses in training and even normal rotations in staff can contribute in large ways. The only thing that remains consistant, is the brochures that they pass out to the media about describing how well they are doing their job, and how unhappy these folks are.
In a Court of Law, you couldn’t convict Zacarias Moussaoui of anything.
He wasn’t there.
He didn’t know it was going to happen.
He didn’t know when it was supposed to happen.
He wasn’t connected to it in any way except Bush needed a “patsy” and you all needed to satisfy your Arab { “terrorist” } blood-lust.
Bushco had 5 years to plant or squeeze whatever they could and still couldn’t make him the “man.”
But as long as you have an Arab suffering, you’ve got what you need so very very much.
Happy now?
Helping the American Jewish Committee celebrate its 100th anniversary, Bush vowed Thursday to have no contact with the leaders of Hamas, which dominates the Palestinian government,
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BUSH_MIDEAST?SITE=CAWOO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-05-05-05-09-56
No contact?
Way to go Bushstein, you G-d Zionist-sucking stupid bastard.
Had a good laugh this morning, in the paper it was reported that Moussaoui has changed his mind, now he wants to withdraw his guilty plea, plead “not guilty”, and get another trial. What a hoot!! Seems if he can’t have the virgins, then he just wants to be let go.
I hope this information could be useful,and if anyone could help shed light I would be greatful .
I’am a victim of psychiatric abuse its a crime, and in hospital I have witnessed the twisted mentality of mental health professionals such as abuse like punishing me with force drugging of antipsychotics , chemical restraints ,isolation for days at a time with in appropriate meals, and nursing staff threating me with anything they thought of and it just depends on how mad you got the staff that day. I never did anything out of control or did I get violent,yet I was just standing up for patients rights and making my argued opinions in result I would get tortured with over dosing of forced antipsychotic drugs. I have even witnessed nursing staff murder a co-patient and it was sickening,frustrating and very sad part of my life. I also have a young friend who got an E.C.T done and it has completly fried his memory. after the reinforcement of drugs I have had tremors symtoms of N.M.S head pains, heart cardiac pains,weight gain ,dizzyness and sleepiness all caused by side affects of antipsychotic drugs. I suffer each day with the symptoms and I don’t think I will live that long on psychiatric medication its deadly look at the statistics if anyone can help me with this prosectution I would appreciate all the help I can get please I can name a few people who were responsible for the murders of some people:Dr. David Cochrane (psychiatrist)R.N: Mark Samuel ,R.P.N: Sandy ,Robb
All this took place at the Northeast Mental Health Center abbreviated N.E.M.H.C use to be called the north bay psychiatric hospitalP.O. Box 3010 4700Highway 11 NNorth Bay, ON,CAmy hope is that someone could help me prosecute and bring this to justice
25 GOOD REASONS WHY PSYCHIATRY MUST BE ABOLISHEDby Don Weitz1. Because psychiatrists frequently cause harm, permanent disabilities, death - death of the body-mind-spirit.2. Because psychiatrists frequently violate the Hippocratic Oath which orders all physicians “First Do No Harm.”3. Because psychiatrists patronize and disempower people, especially their patients.4. Because psychiatry is not a medical science.5. Because psychiatry is quackery, a pseudo-science which lacks independent diagnostic tests, testable hypotheses, and cures for “schizophrenia” and all other types of alleged “mental illness” or “mental disorder”.6. Because psychiatrists can not accurately and reliably predict dangerousness, violence, or any other type of human behaviour, yet make such claims as “expert witnesses”, and with the media promote the “dangerous mental patient” myth/stereotype.7. Because psychiatrists have caused a worldwide epidemic of brain damage by promoting and prescribing brain-disabling treatments such as the neuroleptics, antidepressants, electroconvulsive brainwashing (electroshock), and psychosurgery (lobotomy).8. Because psychiatrists manufacture hundreds of “mental disorders” classified in its bible called “Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders” (a modern witch-hunting manual); such “mental disorders” and “symptoms” are in fact negative, class-and-culturally-biased moral judgments for dissident ways of coping with personal problems and alternative ways of perceiving, interpreting or being in the world.9. Because psychiatrists, blinded by their medical model bias, fraudulently pathologize and label people’s serious life or existential crises as “symptoms” of “mental illness” or “mental disorder” such as “schizophrenia”,”bipolar affective disorder”, and “personality disorder”.10. Because psychiatrists compound this fraud by falsely claiming, without scientific proof, that these “mental disorders” are caused by a “biochemical imbalance” in the brain, genetic factors or “genetic predispositions”, despite the fact that there are no genetic factors in “mental illness”.11. Because psychiatrists frequently misinform their patients, families and the public by claiming that brain-disabling procedures such as the neurotoxins (e.g.,”antipsychotic medication” and “antidepressasnts”), electroconvulsive brainwashing (electroconvulsive therapy/”ECT”), psychosurgery (lobotomy) and other behaviour modification-mind control procedures are “safe, effective and lifesaving”. The exact opposite is tragically true.12. Because psychiatrists routinely deceive or lie to patients, prisoners, their families, and the public.13. Because psychiatrists routinely and willfully violate the medical-ethical principle of “informed consent” by misinforming or not informing their patients about the numerous toxic, disabling and frequently permanent effects of the neuroleptics such as memory loss, tardive dyskinesia, tardive psychosis, parkinsonism, dementia (all signs of brain damage), and death.14. Because psychiatrists routinely threaten, intimidate or coerce many patients - particularly women, children, the elderly, and prisoners - into consenting to health-threatening/brain-damaging “treatment” such as the antidepressants, neuroleptics, electroconvulsive brainwashing, and hi-risk experiments.15. Because psychiatrists frequently fail to fully inform psychiatric inmates and prisoners about existing safe and humane, non-medical alternatives in the community such as survivor-controlled crisis centres, drop-ins, self-help or advocacy groups, diet, massage, wholistic medicine, affordable supportive housing, and jobs.16. Because psychiatrists are sexist in frequently stereotyping women in crisis as “hysterical” or “over-emotional”, blaming women whenever they voice real complaints and assertively express their feelings and emotions, prescribing massive doses of tranquilizers and antidrepressants to disproportionately large numbers of women, and in sexually assaulting women in their offices and institutions.17. Because psychiatrists, particularly white male psychiatrists, are homophobic - the American Psychiatric Association (APA) once labelled homosexuality as a “mental illness” or “mental disorder” - and have used forced electroshock on lesbians, trying to coerce them into adopting a heterosexual life style.18. Because psychiatrists are ageist in prescribing tranquilizers, antidepressants (”medication”) and electroconvulsive brainwashing for disproportionately large numbers of elderly people - a form of elder abuse.19. Because psychiatrists are racist in disproportionately incarcerating and drugging people of African descent, aboringal people, other people of colour and labelling them “psychotic” or “schizophrenic”.20. Because psychiatrists routinely violate people’s civil rights, human rights and constitutional rights such as imprisoning innocent people without court trial or public hearing (”involuntary commitment”), and subjecting them to cruel and unusual punishments or tortures such as forced drugging, electroconvulsive brainwashing, psychosurgery, solitary confinement, “chemical restraints”, and 4-point or 5-point restraints.21. Because psychiatrists masterminded the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people including disabled children, the elderly and psychiatric patients during The Holocaust in Nazi Germany, and “selected” hundreds of thousands of concentration camp prisoners for death (”T-4 euthanasia” program) - historical facts still missing in psychiatric textbooks and histories.22. Because psychiatrists have willingly participated in and administered mind-control experiments in the United States and Canada since the early 1950s - its chief targets have been poor patients, women, dissidents and prisoners.23. Because psychiatry, particularly institutional-biological psychiatry, is based on the 3 Fs: Fear, Fraud,and Force.24. Because psychiatry is a form of social control or punishment - not treatment.25. Because psychiatry, particularly institutional-biological psychiatry, is fascist - a direct threat to democracy, human rights and life.
Uh Oh, the Scientoligists weigh in.Koo Koo, Koo KooHas Tom Cruise come out of the closet yet?
Dr. David Cochrane nemhc I was molested by DR.DAVID COCHRANE . I’am 13 years old and when this happened he told me he was giving me therapy , well let me tell you he did all kinds of sexual things to me ,and told me that it was okay cause he was the doctor and does this stuff all the time .it hurts my feelings i told my parents Dr.David Cochrane molested me, but they dont’t believe me .I didn’t know that he also works at north east mental health center in north bay, ontario and is a psychiatrist . Canada,ON,North Bay
Mark Samuel, Nurse Sex Offender ConvictedOn Sept 8,2005 RN:Mark Samuel was sentenced to five years in Jail with all but two years suspended,having been convicted in January 2004 of unlawful sexual contact with a 6 year-old girl . Mark Samuel counseled the girls mother. when the counseling ended , the three became friends attending family fuctions together. The violations occurred during sleepovers at the Nurses residence during the summer of 2003. Mark Samuel has been released from prison and is now at risk to the community of North Bay Ontario Mark Samuel emyployed 2007 for Assertive community treatment Team North Bay, ONNortheast Mental Health CenterP.O. Box 3010 4700Highway 11 NNorth Bay, ON,CA