I’m am personally opposed to large SUVs. However, I support people’s right to buy them.

There is nothing inconsistent about that position, anymore than there is abotu the guv’s.

Cheers.

I believe that most people, whether they call themselves pro-life or pro-choice, can agree that abortion is something that we should work to prevent. Most people agree that there should be fewer abortions.

What separates people into these two camps is the way they think this goal should be accomplished. Those on the pro-life side think it should be done by creating laws restricting access to abortion. These laws of course include South Dakota-style bans, but also a number of little-noticed laws such as targeted regulation of abortion providers and parental consent.

Those on the pro-choice side believe that the number of abortions can be reduced through preventative measures while keeping them legal and accessible. These include not only such obvious items as sex education and increased access to family planning services, but also more broad policies that take into account the top two reasons that women report for deciding to terminate a pregnancy: lack of healthcare and financial instability.

Personal beliefs about the “morality” of abortion aren’t what separates us into “pro-life” or “pro-choice”; our differing opinions on how best to reduce them do.

For a comparison, we can look at Kansas based groups working on either side. Kansans for Life, the most politically active pro-life group, consistently supports legisation restricting access to abortion while consistently opposing preventative measures. The main three pro-choice groups, NOW, ProKanDo, and Planned Parenthood, consistently oppose legislation that restricts access and consistently support preventative measures.

For example, while Kansans for Life was supporting a bill targeting abortion providers for regulations that don’t apply to any other physicians, the pro-choice groups were working on the Abstinence Plus Education Act.

The point is that the debate is over the approach. Calling Sebelius a liar for taking the pro-choice approach to reducing abortions simply misses the point, as do most debates over abortion.

I have seen people who are not Christian do the same.

Viva La Raza Blanco!!!

Yhe only ‘monsters’ in my opinion are those who resort to violence and those who would ‘turn away’ a woman in ‘trouble.’

One thing that I HAVE seen is a self-described “Christian” family turn their backs on a daughter in her worst hour of need. THEY are the ones driving her to an abortion.

Pro-life means that you don’t support abortion in any case whatsover, because the killing of a fetus amounts to murder. You also support the outright banning of IVF, where multiple fetuses are created only to be discarded. I have great respect for this position, although I disagree with it. It’s consistent.

Pro choice means you support a woman’s right to choose an abortion, whether you personally approve of it or not. You might support restrictions on the time frame, but not on the reason for obtaining one.

Anti sex means you support a right to a woman’s abortion, but only she was forced to have sex. Those slutty girls who have sex with–gasp–no intention of getting pregnant are SOL. You also see no problem IVF, because killing fetuses is a “cluck-cluck, how sad” kind of issue, but it’s ok if the goal is to make a woman a mother! There’s no nonprocreational sex involved, so it’s cool.

Thoughts?

“Pro-Abortion” – support abortion; for example by writing checks to Tiller, etc.

“Pro-Choice” – support leaving the decision to the parties involved.

By these definitions I am both pro-choice and pro-life. However, I do not qualify as ‘pro-abortion’ because I will not support that.

Still waiting for your check Nathan.

Uh… anti choice? Or maybe even rabidly anti choice? Anti freedom? Taliban??

I am not saying there is no middle ground.

I am not saying people can’t have views on both sides of the issue or they can’t be privately against abortion and still support choice.

I am talking about the definitions of terms.

If pro-life doesn’t mean you oppose abortion then what should people who are pro-life call themselves?

The term pro-life is simply a term adopted by those to state that they hold a view that abortion is wrong and they don’t support it.

The term pro-choice is simply a term used to describe those that do support a womans right to choose.

If you want to make up a word for people in the middle, I don’t care.

You can’t be both. They are mutually exclusive terms.

That has been all I have been trying to say…

If you are going to call people that support a womans right to choose “pro-life” then what do you call people who don’t support a womans right to choose?

Because right now, most of the people who don’t support a womans right to choose call themselves “pro-life”

They are just terms describing a stance on abortion, not absolute statements about ones character, values, or morals.

It is that simple.

I submit that I do more to decrease abortion than he does.

All I am saying is that what you just described is Pro-Choice.

Unfortunately, my part-time job and being a full time student prohibits me from further donations to the many things I think are worthy.

So, if I just choose to neither support nor oppose abortion where does that leave me?

Pro-choice is a term used to describe those who support a womans right to choose to have an abortion.”

Sounds like a person can be both from the descriptions above. Add to that the situation where a person counsels a woman to seek alternatives (adoption etc) while not trying to criminalize abortion and I think you really can be both.

Nathan – do you financially support any of the alternatives? i.e Gerard House etc?

How do you define “pro-life?”

I simply defined it as a term to describe a position regarding abortion.

Again, it can have several meanings. We are talking about the one dealing with abortion, not the one you are.

You seem content on making the term it’s self an absolute statement.

I don’t.

I am not anymore a hypocrite than your fantasy imagination can make me one.

A fair charge. If you deal in absolutes.

There is another fair charge and cry of hypocrisy to be made. Some have already made it. I’d add this.

Unless you are for and demand societal health care for all prenatal women you are not “pro lfe”. You are leaving a woman to her own devices. One of which is the right to choose abortion in the face of medical expenses she cannot pay. Deny her choice with yours and you would seem to become the “responsible” party.

Unless you are for and demand societal food and housing for all you are not pro life. You ARE FOR a woman and child on the street hungry and homeless. Maybe because you want her that way so she will work for you out of desperation to feed her child who has lost its importance to you by virtue of its birth.

Unless you are for societal paid day care for children you are not pro life. You ARE FOR children left alone while their mothers work any job you will give them to keep them and their child fed.

THe hypocrisy of many if not most of the “pro lifers” is that they discuss the 1st or 2nd or 3rd trimester. They wash their hands of the 1st or 14th or 21st or 65th year and all the years in between. Some of them do get concerned again if you are brain dead or seek end to a life of pain. But for the most part their “pro life” sentiment extends only to emergence of a “person” dependent on another person whose choice they’ve denied into society where their rules would say “You’re on your own kid!”

You tell ME who the real hypocrites are.

Pro-choice is a term used to describe those who support a womans right to choose to have an abortion.

They are not meant to be taken literally. The comments about pro-life people who support the death penalty make as much sense as me saying you are not pro-choice because you are against school vouchers…

The point is that they are terms used to describe views on abortion.

I could care less how much of a grey area you are in.

Make up a new term for all I care.

I am just saying that you are either pro-life or pro-choice. Trying to say that privately you are pro-life yet you still support a womans right to choose is: PRO-CHOICE!

It is not something to be ashamed of unless you are trying to pander to the pro-life crowd when you are pro-choice.

When I say I am pro-life it is a term used to describe my stance on abortion not an all encomposing statement about my view on all life.

We can debate killing and life if you would like to. I am just clarifying the terms.