Which church of mine allows gay people to be harmed?

I am curious to know.

There is no solid scientific proof for it being predisposed.

Damoon, I think I’ve found my twin sister. Well said!

“I don’t believe in organized religion,” is what I used to say to get rid of the JW’s at my door. Now I just very nicely tell them to please give their literature to someone who will benefit, because in my house, it will go in the trash. Said with kindess and a smile. It’s either that or meet them at the door wearing nothing but a smile. :)

I don’t think anyone wakes up one day and says I’m going to be gay anymore than someone wakes up and says I’m going to be a serial killer.

It is the sumation of many choices in your life effected by your environment and what not that ultimately leads you down whatever path you are.

I don’t think it is one choice but many made over time.

They are demanding state recognition of their heterosexual relationships. As a member of the state (and a straight guy myself!), I don’t think straights deserves special recognition because they choose to be straight.

It is unconstitutional, the Federal government does not have the legal authority to make such a law! it violates the premise of states right and the Constitution’s separation of powers. Either way such a law will be stuck down in the federal courts. The Bush administration can argue till the cows come home that it is a matter of commerce. But it would do no good as long as the courts follow the law, it is that simple.

Another straw man… Protecting the sanctity of marriage. The problem with that of course is where is the push to stop any other perceived threat to marriage? And what is the sanctity of marriage if not a holy bond between two people that commit their lives to each other? Tell me where is the threat if any two of a legally recognized age committing to one another? I have been married for close to thirty years and have lived at one time or another next to couples that were man and wife, wife and wife, man and man, drunkard and saint. A pretty blond with a come here smile is more of a threat to my marriage then Adam and Steve or Eve and Amanda. The real sanctity of marriage is between two people and not between the couple and the state.

Now there were several different groups pushing this amendment, there were the employers and insurance company gave support because if gays were allow to marry it would increase their cost in the form of benefits and group rated insurance. There were of course the Religious rights people (Fox) that took the bible to a extreme that it is not. If you are a Christian then you will not practice homosexually, you will keep the Sabbath holy. etc. That is the tenets of being a Christian, if you are not a Christian they do not apply!You said that no one is forcing anyone to be a Christian! No but such actions are forcing other to live as a Christian. By the rules and laws of being a Christian, the faithful live by these rules not by force but by choice. There is no law that said you have to keep the Sabbath except in the Bible and the Bible does not apply to anyone other then the faithful.

The third group that supported this amendment? Those that saw it as a way to Gay bash, “Take that you fagots!”.

Now you asked about Pastor Terry Fox and why I see him as a threat to the faith?Just how many do you think he will lead to Christ with what he is doing? He reaffirms the stereo type of the Christian as being judgmental. Holier-then-thou, is that what a Christian is or should be? You know that we are not, but then again you know Christ! He has said he is doing what he does out of love, but where is that love? It is in his church and none to be seen otherwise. I had this discussion on the message board with a guy that went by SWL. My best friend and SWL are members of Immanuel. Both asked me to come for just one service and I would see that Pastor Fox preaches more then what is seen on the T.V.

To be fair I did, most of the hour was taken up by “how to know if you are in trouble with your money”.Intermixed with some Bible verses. Few of those at that, then he spent ten minutes on the “Book of Daniel” not the Bible book but the T.V. show….He had never seen it! yet he promise to get the new owner of channel 3 home address and phone number. So the flock could express their displeasure at the new owner’s decision to air the show. I had watched it, more to see what the hub-bub was about then any real thought I would likeit. But as a matter of fact I did like, the relationship of Daniel and Jesus was very good, we often speak to Jesus in our day. It could be said that Jesus does speak back, in the show Jesus is a real figure but Jesus can speak to you through others. Have you ever had a problem that was weighting your mind and suddenly someone said just the right thing to clear up the problem for you? I liked the answers that the character said, when Daniel was overwhelmed with the problems in his life. He asked Jesus why life was so hard at times? “The reason life is hard is because the reward at the end of it is so great”.

Daniel asked Jesus why he was just talking to him? “I talk to everyone…It is just most choose not to listen”.Boy now that really portrays Christ in a bad light! The character did not excuse sin as Pastor Fox said.He just helped Daniel put it in prospective, that we all fall short and sometimes shorter then others.That if Jesus does not give up on us, who are we to give up?

That is a problem, non-believers do not see all the good works that Pastors do. They only see Phelps, Pastor Fox and Right, that is what they will judge Christianity on. There is an attack on Christianity, it is Christians doing it. There is a difference between living a Christian life and being told you have to. If that Marine D.I had walked up to you at prom night and shouted “Give me twenty maggot!”. Would you or was there a difference when you were at boot?

Pastor Fox goes out of his way to give the wrong message to non-believers, in that light he is no different then Phelps. You would say he is spreading the Gospel, I say he is enforcing it… Big difference!Should we talk about how I feel about the Mega churches?

I’m not a full-time blogger like some of you. I think that some of you are probably old and have nothing better to do than sit at home and run your mouths (on the computer). It’s really pathetic that some of you are older but you haven’t learned anything in life but you know how to complain and whine.

Oh and about the invitation from Phillip…

Thanks, but no thanks.

First, Christians are not perfect. No one is perfect. The mere lack of perfection is not reason to dismiss any reason to be better.

Second, you are once again twisting scripture for your bashing purposes.

The passage you refer to talks about condemning people for their sin. None of those Pastors or Priests you mention were condemning anyone. Merely speaking out against sin is not throwing stones.

Jesus, just after saying that, went on to say to sin no more.

Telling people they are sinning or telling them to not sin anymore is not casting stones as the Bible speaks of.

Since it appears as if we are trying to degrade all of Christianity based on the actions of the few I suppose I could start posting about all the bad things Homosexuals do to?

“To me he is one of the greatest threats to the faith and its future. And one of the best example for what you have said about crossing the line and being tax exempt.”

Really?

I am curious writerdog.

What is it that makes you think he is one of the greatest threats to Christianity?

What is it that he does which is crossing the tax exempt line?

You are right on target with this post, which is why I object so strongly to these same people claiming the moral high ground.

I think our so called one night stands are easier to accept for the more rabid faithful. They HATE it that the majority of us are serial monogamists… just like they are!

Someone here said it hasnt been that long ago that we were illegal, and could go to jail for showing our love for our partners.

I notice that the longer someone has been out, the harder sometimes it is for them to REALLY be out. The oldtimers are the ones used to hiding and living in the shaddows. For obvious reasons.

That kind of secrecy, people driven underground by laws now defunct, makes it hard for us to organize and raise money for political campaigns.

Especially to overcome the power of people who meet at least twice weekly, are funded by church donations, get their political marching orders from the pulpit, and misguidedly think they are doing gods work in spreading the gospel of hate and bigotry.

That is why I will NEVER forgive gov. leadership for telling us to go screw ourselves and defeat the hate amendment at the ballot box instead of lifting a FINGER to keep it off the ballot. She could have helped, and deliberately chose not too. Nice.

That is also why it is so important for gay people, as the great Harvey Milk once said, to “come out come out wherever you are”. People cant know us unless we make ourselves visible. If we lurk in the shadows, hide, and act ashamed of our loves, our lives, and our beliefs, no wonder people treat us like cockroaches. We act like them!!

Yes, believe me, I know the dangers of publicly acknowledging who I am and the wrongness of the hated amendment.

As someone who lost their job and was dragged through the mud for publicly speaking out, on a day of vacation, that bigotry was wrong, I do know the consequenses.

Was it worth it to me personally? No. Was it important for people out here who know me and who I am, to see that if I am not afraid, and they shouldnt be either? yes.

Were the front page articles embarassing for me? yes. But they were more embarassing for the elected officials here who showed their asses.

I mean, even conservative republican state senator Ralph Ostmeyer said I should not have been fired and took our local leaders to task for pissing away a great resource. That is an endorsement for a liberal, gay, democrat at the time, from a big time religious, republican, catholic conservative.

God DAMN! IF ralph can support me because he knows me, maybe it IS worthwhile coming out.

Do you think the horrible things people say to me are enjoyable? Do you think I get some pleasure for making myself a target of bigotry? Hell no. But I think, for me personally, it is my duty. Straight people need to know we are just like them. Some good, some assholes, some in between.

Yep. I fall into the asshole catagory. But I still refuse to hide and be ashamed. SHAME is the devil’s work, not love. There are good people who are also gay. Why they do not speak here is a mystery to me. I cant be the only gay person reading this blog.

So for all you queer cowards out there, stand up, smile, and tell folks who you are. Yes, it is uncomfortable, yes, you will be accused of flaunting and being in their faces, yes, it will be embarassing and difficult, but it is important.

Vichy queers sit back and let the rest of us do the heavy lifting while they remain invisible in politics, law enforcement, medical clinics, law firms, CPA firms, education, and yes… the pulpit.

YOU vichy queers are getting a free ride from those of us willing to stand up for truth and for our community.

So coward queers, get off your asses and tell someone, anyone, TODAY, that you are gay. Do something for yourselves instead of whining and sniveling.

It only hurts for a little while…

Oh boy! Pastor Fox just said he has moved just about eight miles away from me! I met him once when I went to Immanuel on an invite to actually see that what you see on the T.V. is not the entire message he gives. That is another subject and person I can get fired up about! I hope he is not a late night person, I do not always control myself and where I work you are not to express your opinion on anything! In fact to just say the word “abortion” can get you fired! For the most part as long as someone does not ask for my opinion I do keep my mouth shut. Just do not ask if you do not want to know! To me he is one of the greatest threats to the faith and its future. And one of the best example for what you have said about crossing the line and being tax exempt.

What you asked of Nathan is one of the reasons I was against the move to put Creationism into the school.It is faith and not proof that the believe is build on, to put God into the realm of science without a clear proof of his existence. Will in fact cause more damage to the faith then to science, since faith is believing in something that is beyond that which one can touch, see or hear. Beyond that which a reasonable believe could explain. Yes in a real sense Christians put the “cart before the horse” First one must make a leap in logic that God exist. Devoid of any proof that can be pointed to that could convince someone that in fact there is a God. A term that most Christian will be familiar with “the miracle of faith”, in a nutshell that is one of the examples of the miracle.

You may have seen this before as I remember relating it on here or the message boards: I was asked the following question, “Which is better to believe insincerely in a true God or sincerely in a false God?”.I realized the person asking it was trying to trip me up and make fun of my answer.

I told him I could not make a snap answer to the question and I would answer in a week. At the end of the week I gave this answer, “ A true God would know that you are insincere in your believe so your believe would do you no good. But if by your believe in a false God, your life and the lives of those around you are better for your believe. Then that would be better!”.

Like the question of whether homosexually is a matter of choice or a matter of genes, there is several studies that will support the existence of God. But they also start from a preconceived outcome, they if you believe will affirm that believe. If you do not than it will not convince you that God exist. The studies that support that Homosexually is genes are for the most part based more on speculation at this point then a provable fact. A set of genes that seem to be present in Homosexuals but not in Heterosexuals, but they can not state with fact these genes cause homosexually.

Like so a study that supports the existence of God points to what maybe a random occurrence. It is the seeing through the eyes of the faith that one see a tree is more then a tree.