In case you didn’t see it, I’m including below a letter to the editor in today’s Eagle about the recent blogger meet-up. Also, fyi: I’m trying to schedule a gathering at The Eagle. Looks as if Thursday, June 22, from 6:30 to 8 p.m. might be the best date and time for us. What do you think?
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
True Americans
I am certainly glad I went to a recent meet-up of the bloggers who post comments on The Eagle editorial board’s WE Blog, a lively group indeed — and civil, considering the differing views. I felt totally welcome and was at ease with everyone. It was a pleasure, and I must admit I was somewhat surprised at the diversity. It felt more like a family reunion than a bunch of people who knew one another only from some words and disjointed names.
The views differ as much as the faces, but they all have the same thoughts in mind. They all have the same goals in sight and the same desires in their hearts. What is best for America and the love of this country drew them together in one place. They are not happy to sit silent while the world spins by or be distracted by what is on the television. It was America — people of different lives and different views but all together, different beliefs all wanting a common thing. Word spreads one person at a time, until a chorus is heard.
I would rather sit with any one of these people than spend a lifetime with a world full of those berating the latest to fall off “American Idol.”
R.D. Liebst
Augusta
178 Comments
Thanks for the kind words phillip. However, I cant put the next meetup date on my schedule until I know what values boy thinks.
He will be there, right?
heheh. Send lawyers guns and money.
If I wasnt such a proponent of free speech and free choice, I might suggest a boycott of this blog on the days values boy shills for terry, joe and fred.
I might even suggest a boycott of your meetup since no values but his values are valued there.
But then, those damn freedoms get in the way of calling such a boycott, so I wont.
I bet values boy would love it if only nathan and outlander and heckler showed up.
I’ll pencil in the date.
Thanks for recognizing us, Phillip.
Couldnt you at least add a decent progressive writer so your editorial board could be at least as fair and balanced as fox?
Or would that cut down on the church advertising?
Word to the wise on meet ups Phil. Keep repeating it over and over and over. Otherwise someone will invariably say they didn’t know about it. Learn also from my mistakes in the meet up organizing department. Provide VERY specific information as to time and place. Otherwise some folks will get lost!
I can probably attend.
In all likelihood, CF will be unable to attend.
To the great relief, he might add, of those others who will therefore feel comfortable attending.
I’m in.
I’ll be out of town.
Hey DD, what does it mean when someone starts referring to themselves in the third person?
I’m in, especially if Farm Gal brings some of her famous potato salad!
Outlander,
Psychotic break. That’s what it means.
Which should not be news to anyone who reads the WeBlog regularly.
I think that date will be open for me. I had a conflict on the first meetup. :-(.
“Hey DD, what does it mean when someone starts referring to themselves in the third person?”
I’m supposed to be an expert on such things? CF has always done that. So, I think it is consistency in his case. I always thought it was a charming habit that fell out of popularity early in the 20th century.
I will plan on being at the meetup on the 22nd.
I would sure like to see some others catch the variety of psychosis CF has.
Mountain Man and I will really TRY to be there (it’s penciled in the family calendar).
BTW, writerdog – I read your letter in the paper today. It was good, but my all time favorite is the still the Rosa Parks letter. You may never top that one.
My router messed up, right when I had a really good post on the individual differences of the Editorial page writers. That post may be forever-lost; Oh, well.
The only editorial writer whom I think I could not consistently identify – if they were to exclude their name from their writing — is – drum roll please – Rhonda.
This may be a sign that Rhonda is the best Editorial writer.
KFG, I know you may disagree with the above; but wanted to also tell you, if you can make it to the 22nd meet-up – Sushi, before hand (or afterward), will be my treat.
Also, in that forever-lost post – was my nomination of Heckler as the dark-side poster whom I most wanted to meet. You guys/gals with the force have to admit he has a wonderful sense of humor (at least, I think it is a sense of humor). Would like to hear other nominations for this title…
Thanks for recognizing us Phillip, and count me in for the 6/22 meet-up. I wouldn’t miss an oportunity to spend time with my good friends on WE blog.
Be sure and tell the conservative “fainting crowd” That the Libs have no intention of killing and eating them. (they frighten easily)
DD, thanks for the invite, but I will likely be cutting wheat. Or watching others cut what is LEFT of my wheat after drought, freeze and hail.
Sigh. And with my new business, I may never have a day off again!
The fact that I will miss values boy does not disturb me at all. He should feel free to shill for god without me interjecting any truth.
I think Rhonda is pretty easy to identify. Just listen for the fainting couch. I dont usually recognize Melissa until I see her name.
And I repeat, she and Randy must be REALLY lonely down there.
Hello XXX, good to see you!
“the Libs have no intention of killing and eating them”
Too tough, and their taste can be kinda bitter….
KFG and CF,I really hope you guys can make it (but I totally understand that life gets in the way sometimes). I know that Mountain Man had a blast visiting with CF.
heheh XXX and I both had fainting on our minds
Thanks Julie, I’d like to see you all too, but geojane and I will be whacking wheat. Hopefully.
KFG,Is she moving up or just helping out that weekend?
Both!!!
Ya gotta love a girl who wacks wheat, although I suspect RD may be the actually farming champ!
If I have not left for Iraq by then I will be there.
I hope “values boy” comes too.
In my book “values” is not a dirty word.
My schedule is so chaotic now, it’s a little early to say yea or nay on the date. I’d like to ask “values boy” what it was like to work with Mike Marlett {giggle!}.
I’ll try to be there though. Sounds like a happenin’.
Just read Brent’s latest incoherent rant in favor of Unamerican unfairness. . . .{try to be nice, try to be nice. . .}.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/editorial/14658765.htm
Oh, PLEASE post a thread, VB; make my day! ;-)
Glad to have you back Rage!
Writerdog think Writerdog will be able to make it, Writerdog may even put in for a personal day as Writerdog work third shift and would have to be back by 10:00 P.M. Writerdog too would like to meet some of those that did not make it to the last meet up. (LoL as I read what I have written aloud, it only sounds right with my best impression of Bob Dole) Writerdog would like to thank Mr. Brownlee for putting his letter in the WE. Writerdog will now stop referring to himself as Writerdog as Writerdog is beginning to wonder how many other people are in his mind! It is hard enough living with the three that are already there….
Yo, Late as usual. I would like nothing better than to be there june 22nd. I don’t know my plans yet though.
We need the conserves to be there this time. Maybe they’ll feel more at home if more of the editorial board shows up:-) Come on, dudes, an hour and a half ain’t near enough time to BBQ yall.
Rage or anyone:
I’ll bite, who is “values boy?”
Ed
“Values boy” is the Wichita Eagles new “values” columnist Brent Castillo. A rather poorly writing right wing fundie shill.
“I think Rhonda is pretty easy to identify. Just listen for the fainting couch. I dont usually recognize Melissa until I see her name.”
That is really interesting KFG because Melissa is the easiest for me to identify. Her writing about almost any subject is pretty much what I would think.
Rhonda, still mystifies me, and I think I like it.
We’ll have to plan some other time together. Stacie would like to come out to your place out west after the weather is cooler.
Stacie’s sister, who is lesbian, is wanting us to go up to Alaska this summer to take in that experience. We have the money, but we’re uncertain about the time.
Peace, my friend.
Well, KFG, I can always drive a dump truck. Stick shift is fine, and would almost be a vacation. I’m not real fond of working ground. Going around in circles makes me dizzy-er. :)
I’ll keep my fingers crossed that the crop isn’t as bad as you expect it to be and that the price goes up, up, up to make up the difference.
JR
Thanks….So it’s safe to say that his “values” are not too valuable?
One mans treasure is my trash ED. And I aint alone.
kfg has gracioulsy offered to host my son and I a visit to her farm. Perhaps we will be busy June 22nd?
Why are you so scared of values?
Don’t you have any?
Perhaps it’s the well known fact that conservatives/Christians are so hated on this blog that we really don’t feel welcome. The invitations are rather hollow.. after all.. we wouldn’t want to spoil your appetite with our “ick” factor and all.But then again.. if the Eagle provides all the food and drink, I might suck it up, round up all my homeless friends, and show up for the food and “fun”.
The initial letter at the top of this topic includes the line, “What is best for America and the love of this country drew them together in one place.” Referring to the bloggers who post here.
I find that quite curious, since about the only thing I ever read is how horrible everything in this country is. The taxes. The government. The courts. The schools. The laws. All this blog does is knock, criticize, condemn, attack, and find fault. This is a gathering of the most whining, griping, complaining people I have ever seen.
I have yet to see a POSTIVE comment about this country. Anyone care to offer something CONSTRUCTIVE for a change? Or should we listen to the rapier like wit of the posters here, agree they are all right and just bomb this country back into the stone age?
Honest assessment time..has ANYONE here offered ONE constructive idea in the past 6 months? Or are people just too busy tearing down, attacking others, being ‘clever’, and jumping all over anyone who ‘dares’ to have a different opinion? The overwhelming negativity of this blog is nothing to celebrate. It is quite sad, really. The non stop criticism and fault finding while never offering anything positive is quite depressing.
Raptor,
Even though it is pretty ugly here, it is just a nice social gathering at the picnic.
I have been to the first 2 and they are not bad at all.
Gives you a chance to see everyone at least. I would encourage you to go if you can.
I do agree that this blog is basically one Bush bashing, Christian bashing, and Republican bashing thread after the other regardless of if it was intended on being that way.
Raptor has a very good point.
I sometimes have to take days away or I find myself starting to think and feel negative from reading and sometimes responding to the posts here. I have also decided a couple of times to stop posting here, but then I will goof up and take a peek, read what I think to be an unfair attack or misrepresentation, and here I am again. It is addictive.
I think one problem is that the same technology that makes this exchange possible also causes people to stop thinking for themselves. They will refer instead to websites that agree with pre-conceived beliefs and parrott or link to those sites as if they represent the truth. I think that we are all guilty of this to some extent.
On the positive side, the posters here are generally very astute and informed people. I have found Joe Williams in particular to be a positive person with ideas and a breath of fresh air. And we do live in the greatest country in the world!
There’s an old Arab saying..Thank God for those who criticize me!
I’ve seen plenty of positive suggestions for change here. Of course, one must realize that the natural first reaction of most creatures to change is discomfort. You’re trading something you know for something you don’t. hence, the usual perception of new ideas and suggestions as bad, stupid, or hare-brained. I’m sure George III. William Pitt, Louis XVI, Metternich, and others of their ilk, all found the ideas embodied in classical liberalism and democracy odious and a pox on mankind. Funny how times change.
DD, JR, RD, ALL, you are all invited to visit out here anytime. Lots of room, lots of sky, lots of potato salad!
As for the whiners, this may be the only place in the whole country that you all are in the minority. So now you whine? Heheheh.
Imagine if you were not all straight, middle class white guys. You would be in the minority every day. But does that thought, if you can hold it, make you compassionate or reasonable? Hell no.
You are just lucky right now to be the majority, but then you probably dont think you are lucky. You probably think it is god’s will that you be in charge of the entire world.
And you cant take people disagreeing here? Imagine if you were gay and had to listen to terry, joe, fred, brent, pat, jerry, etc. everytime you turned on the tv or radio.
You would never have the strength to survive outside your majority in the real world if you whine about the libs here.
You are gonna hate it BAD when you lose the house, the senate, the presidency and the kansas governorship AGAIN!
I say it all the time. It is hard to be a conservative pimp these days.
Maybe if bushco and the republican controlled congress and the republican controlled legislature in kansas hadnt run this country and state into the ground…
… we would have a few positive things to talk about.
Oh, and PS, that famous faith of yours must not be too strong if you can be afraid of us on this blog. Please do continue to just deal with people who agree with you….
Or cant you find them anymore?
This mean liberal blogger post brought to you by someone who obviously has no values. I mean, if they arent YOUR values, they dont exist, right?
heheheheheh.
The more I think about the whining here, the funnier it gets.
I guess you all must be looking for that good news like the good news in iraq that reporters cant get out to SEE because it is so dangerous. And the voice of america reporters think it is too dangerous, but that isnt good news either, eh?
Either there are no more ernie pyles out there or… could it be… there really isnt much good news to report? In iraq and here at home?
I guess you would rather put your fingers in your ears and sing “lalalalalala” than to admit that the american taliban has been a complete failure at governing the us.
But that is so truthfully negative, and anti bush, that the whiners here will be depressed all day. Have your boys generate some good news and we will celebrate it. Until then?
Had enough? NO INCUMBENTS!!!!!!!!!
So on the next open thread, I guess you all will be posting the GOOD news for all of us to see and marvel over?
I cant wait to see what you think the good news is!
KFG,
When we start executing people for being gay then you can compare us to the taliban…
No invite for me :-((.
I missed the 2nd one with a schedule conflict but definitely agree with nathan about the atmosphere at the first one. Something about breaking bread together … In fact, Nathan and I were discussing nuclear power as it ralates to climate etc. And, I think we were agreeing more than disagreeing!
The taliban are bad people. No doubt. I dont defend them in any way. However…
Wanna provide a link to the taliban killing gays? Because I can SURE post links about christians killing gays.
Of course, you will say they are not real christians….
Maybe the problem here isnt negativity, maybe it is boredom. Your same old same old is tiring nathan. That is why so many of us have you on ignore.
KFG – I am reasonably certain that the Taliban would happily kill gays – that is proscribed by the Koran and their fundamentalist interpretation would mandate it. Just like with Pharisee Phred Phelps.
raptor,
Cry me a river. No, wait, cry me a FUCKING river.
Human beings carp and bitch. We’re human beings. Therefore, we carp and bitch. Particulalry, by the way, six years into a Presidential Administration that has driven this country into the ditch. When the ‘leaders’ of this country display zero concern for the well-being of its citizens or the inhabitants or planet Earth, what’s not to dislike? Carping, bitching, and making people feel lousy about how things are unravelling in this country is actually patriotism, particularly when nay-saying is denounced by the neo-fascists as unpatriotic.
Nathan,
Indeed, those are the topics that get bashed in here. When the groups you named have sole control of all the levers of institutional power, they are the ones who rightfully take the blame. By the way, I don’t bash Christians: I bash fundamentalists and reactionaries. There’s a difference. There’s a BIG difference.
Outlander,
Agreed–we all link to what we ideologically like and ignore what we don’t. The difference is, my side is right! Wait, that didn’t come out like I heard it in my head.
But I agree with your final sentiment. For all its faults, ugliness and crudity, America dared to make a promise to humanity that no other nation or people ever dared to make, and that’s why I’m here.
Ben–I agree the taliban would happily kill gays. I just like to see nathan do research :) I get to see it so rarely.
The taliban would kill ANYONE who disagreed with their dominionism. They would kill anyone who did not recognize their religion as the law of the land. Or if they couldnt get someone to agree that THEIR interpretation of god was correct.
Yep. That discribes the taliban. Does it describe anyone else?
Brian, sorry. Of course you are invited to visit here. Lesson to never start listing, ’cause you will fo’ so’ (hi Ian) miss someone.
CF–YOU ROCK. Another great post.
But I bet the WE is still not calling you to counterbalance bc.
And it is Friday. Ramen!
Thank you, CF, for a perfect illustration of my point. Not only are you ridiculing me, you feel it necessary to be vulgar at the same time.
And, KFG, differences of opinion is not what I was saying. My point was about the way the differences are presented, with personal attacks, or interest more in scoring ‘points’ or landing ‘zingers’ doesn’t contribute to rational discourse.
You don’t like the Iraq situation? Nor do I…but I haven’t wasted tons of bandwidth to carp about it. What SOLUTION can you offer?
Not whining, CF. Just dreaming, I guess…looking for healthy discourse without vulgarity or personal attacks. Obviously, that is a little too much to hope for, isn’t it?
raptor – I don’t like the situation in Iraq either but I do have some ideas for a solution. Step 1 – admit we have FUBARed big time. 2 – get rid of the FUBAR crew. 3 – replace them with people who foresaw the fiasco.
“What SOLUTION can you offer?”
I have my thoughts raptor, but I really think the people who got us into iraq should be the ones who figure out how to clean up the mess.
I hate it when people who initially supported the cowboy in chief when his trigger finger got itchy should be the ones to say they were wrong, and this is how we should CHANGE the course, not stay the course.
Let’s hear from the initial gun ho crowd that it was a mistake, and then suggest how to fix it.
What is the saying? A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an automatic crisis for me.
hheheh ben. Nice mutual posting!
No invite for me :-((.
Posted by: Brian | May 26, 2006 at 09:03 AM
It’s ok Brian don’t feel left out. I wasn’t in her list either.
Heaven forbid Mountain Man (hubby) and I get invited out with the kids because we might (gasp!) try to influence our chosen lifestyle of married heterosexual family nature upon her “evil” lesbian organic farmer ways./sarcasm
(I know doll, just a little ornery this morning)
Nathan supports bush even though BUSH doesnt support what bush did.
To quote someone else:
With Bush’s poll numbers in the sewer, it’s not surprising that he took a track of contrition tonight.
Abu Ghraib was a top down decision that led to our people torturing prisoners. He’s sorry. Which consultant came up with these answers? How many of us in the blogosphere have been saying this for a long time to only be rebuked by his followers?
AP: Bush said he regretted his cowboy rhetoric after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks such as his “wanted dead or alive” description of Osama bin Laden and his taunting “bring ‘em on” challenge to Iraqi insurgents.
He also cited the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad. “We’ve been paying for that for a long time,” Bush said
Peter Daou as usual nails it.
“The significance of this shouldn’t go unnoticed. Bush has now admitted what the progressive blog community has said all along: Bush’s tough talk was wrongheaded and cost lives.”
Heheh julie. Good one.
Of course you know you and mm would be most welcome here. Even with the tiniest ones.
OK, what part of ALL is so hard to understand:)
Since all this “you are either with us or against us” or “you either support the war or you suppport the terrorists” rhetoric has been adopted by not only the bushs but the bushistas, it is REALLY gonna be hard for the koolaide crowd to say “we were wrong, you were right, we need to change course”. That would put them where they tried to put EVERYONE who didnt drink the kookaide. Supporting terrorists.
They have been caught in their own rhetorical net. Painted into a corner by their own brush. Other cliches may apply.
Until that admission that they were wrong happens, I doubt the tone of the national debate will change. The folks who thought from the beginning this was a bad idea need to be acknowledged. Otherwise, bush will continue to draw fire.
If the bushistas want to continue claiming, in the face of all evidence, that invading iraq was the right thing for america, that saddam really did have wmd, and that the war is going very well but the good news doesnt get published…
….I suppose we might as well light the flame throwers back up.
The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. They say bush is a dry drunk. Does this sound familiar?
ksfarmgrrl,
“RAMEN!” You’re killin’ me, I tell you what. Good posts.
raptor,
‘Constructive suggestions’ about Iraq? Well, as one of many liberals who thus far has been RIGHT about what would happen if we invaded Iraq and who hasn’t been wrong YET, if I thought you were serious about taking me seriously, I’d say the following: get all of our troops out, NOW. Immediately. Pull them back to Kuwait and out of harm’s way, where they can’t further damage the country and provide a flashpoint for conflict. Stop building permanent bases. Work with regional powers to keep Iraq from turning into a failed state, and generally conduct ourselves according to the principle of enlightened self-interest.
Above all, stop lying to ourselves about how things are going. An average of 50 people a day in Baghdad are turning up dead in sectarian violence, and whole social classes of people are relocating or simply leaving the country. This is a civil war, and the longer we stay there, the more we risk losing an army of 200,000 or so to potentially millions of hostile combatants.
And, finally, get the nutcases out of the White House. They are thinking the unthinkable: the pre-emptive, apocalyptic use of nuclear weapons against a foe that has none. They need to be impeached and imprisoned.
It wasnt just the muslim world he has assaulted and insulted with his cowboy “bring it on” rhetoric.
Maybe that is why gay people are so angry. Maybe that is why democrats are so angry. Maybe that is why non-chrisitans are so angry. Did he think we would be any less human than the terrorists?
He can acknowledge that his false bravado, his frat boy smirking attitude, caused problems in iraq, but he cant admit he has used the same tactic and gotten the same results in the u.s. with the same rhetoric.
Nice to know where we loyal opposition people rank. Below terrorists.
“And, finally, get the nutcases out of the White House. They are thinking the unthinkable: the pre-emptive, apocalyptic use of nuclear weapons against a foe that has none. They need to be impeached and imprisoned.”
Ramen to you too CF. If that doesnt sober up the bushistas and bring them out of their drunk with power stupor, if they cant see the truth in that statement, I dont know what will save america.
looking for my tinfoil hat and survivalist gear now, heheheh
only partly kidding
Still no invite :-{{{…an invute for Jule, but not for me :-{{{.
I’m now against western KS alternate lifestyle organic farmers…I’ll get my OWN potato salad at Dillon’s, thank you very much. :-((
Bush and Blair are admitting to mistakes made in Iraq. The president admits his “bring ‘em on” remark was a mistake, the Abu Ghraib prison abuse was a mistake, but he still wants to continue the present course.
Sorry for being negative, but the above does seems like too little, too late. I wonder if Bush has ever learned from a mistake in his lifetime? And I would like to see convincing evidence that Bush has ever NOT failed at a job he had.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060526/pl_nm/iraq_bush_dc_3
kansassam,I think it is unfortunate that you would feel unwelcome here. I do not see you as someone who acts only as a provocateur – but instead you seem to post positions consistent with your beliefs – which I admire.
The provocateurs are whom this forum could do without, in my opinion – and, I am fairly sure that those folks know who they are. Instead of banning these provocateurs, however, I am in favor of ignoring them.
KFG,thanks for the invitation – we were hoping to be guests (paying ones) at your business – the B&B – like in September some time.
My one positive thought – is there a more beautiful place in the world than Kansas in September?
I guess this was visible only to me?
Please dont take it out on the ‘tater salad!!!! :)
Brian, sorry. Of course you are invited to visit here. Lesson to never start listing, ’cause you will fo’ so’ (hi Ian) miss someone.
CF–YOU ROCK. Another great post.
But I bet the WE is still not calling you to counterbalance bc.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | May 26, 2006 at 10:27 AM
Most of you have probably seen the Jibjab cartoons before. Here is one that I hadn’t seen before that is pretty funny.
http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/JokeBox_JJOrig.aspx?movieid=123
DD…My belief system is consistent with all the other posters who get called names and beat up for their faith. I thought maybe all the non-Christians had me on “ignore” because they don’t argue much with me.
Kansas in September is good… but in my opinion, Kansas in May, before the wheat turns golden is awesome! Then there is harvest,, and it all turns back to dirt!
We’d love to have you DD.
AND EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!!!
I think the neo-cons will self select out.
CF…
Thanks for the post and the ideas. The way things have gone south, that sounds like one of the best things that could be done, pull them out, NOW…before my nephew goes back for his third tour. (little selfish there, I admit)
No WMD’s, no true ties to terrorism, no real reason to invade. Why am I getting the same sinking feeling I got when I heard Nixon pronounce at a State of the Union address “3 years of Watergate is enough”. Deja vu.. seeing something I believed in turning into mush.
raptor,
I appreciate your candor. It isn’t a pleasant thing to have to accept that what one thought was true, isn’t.
Interesting, the mention of Nixon. We’re really in Nixon’s fourth term, if one considers the dual role played by Rumsfeld and Cheney in the Nixon and Bush Administrations. Same M.O.: secrecy, expansion of Executive powers, and sustained political attacks on the other branches of government. However, one CAN say that Nixon, while a lying bastard devoid of ethics, was also strategically brilliant and not intoxicated with delusions of his own messianism. Not so for Bush.
It all scares me to death, frankly. I can’t see things changing without serious, serious, serious fallout and upheaval.
“No WMD’s, no true ties to terrorism, no real reason to invade.”
I have to say it raptor: “WE TOLD YOU SO!”
Too bad nobody listened.
LoL, I still remember the statement that sometimes I sound left and sometimes right, I guess that comes with being more in the middle. I am still a Republican, some may call me a R.I.N.O. of course I tend to think of the Neo-cons or I should say what they have become as RINOs. Bush is not a Republican, I am not fooled by him. A Republican is for smaller Government with less interference on the state level. A Republican is for a sound fiscal judgment, not just to throw money at a problem but to really try to fix the problem. But to stop all the money does not make the problem go away. I wish there was no need for abortion or welfare, but there is.
You want a hopeful note, recently I have been hearing employers saying they are having a hard time finding employees! I do not mean Mc Donald’s or Wal-mart I mean really jobs that start at around ten dollars an hour or better. That means that personal worth is increasing, that there are jobs coming open that buck the trend that I was seeing some years ago. Maybe this country is coming around and moving back away from the majority having to work for sub wages compare to the cost of living. Which means that this country may not have to lower the cost of living as much as if the majority had to live on little better then minim wage.The real strength of this country does not come from a few millionaires, it comes from the majority having enough to enjoy the American dream. The cost of living will still have to adjust but not to the extent that is would if the majority had to work for sub wages. But the rich can still be rich, new opportunities to be come rich will open up. This also means that it will become more prudent to get off of welfare and work. Because you will actually be better off and have more then welfare.
I am also a Christian, perhaps a little more ole time Christian then the Religious right! Christ did not shun the sinner, he embraced him. I hate to use KFG as an example of all gays it makes her a token. LoL I have met her, very little about her seem to be token. There is one facet of her life that sets her a part from other women and other humans. But none the less she is still one of God’s children, to think of her as any less is to betray the Christian faith and the teachings of Christ. Plus you lose out on meeting an interesting person.
Christians are human beings among human beings, they are not special and that is the mistake some Christian make. They set themselves a part from the world when they are need within the world. The Bible is as it always has been an owner’s manual for the Christian. Not a mandate to right the world in the sense of forcing others to accept the teachings. It is not a guild to govern the masses, it is to govern the Christian.Lately it has been use to do the former, this makes it no better then Mien Kempt. And leads the Christian away from God not toward him. Who is a sinner to judge a sinner? Is it a better sinner, a lesser sinner?Pastor Fox, Pastor Right are sinners, though they will admit such they compound their sinfulness with being proud of being a Christian. A Christian is humble, he is sub servant to God’s will not the administrator of it. For when the Christian try to administrate God’s will it become more his own and less of God’s.He is and always will be a human being who is the child of God, not fit to be God. Nor to force others to follow God’s will. For when they do this they presume to understand more then God’s will. Something that will always escape mere humans. Even the Angels in heaven are not so precocious!
Non-believers do not hate a Christian because he is a Christian, they hate a Christian because the Christian tells the non-believer that he is better then the non-believer. He judges the non-believer, when in reality he is not better in God’s eye. We are all the same, none are better that is not what being saved is about.
Ksam and raptor (and anyone I miss)
You cannot have missed the fact that most of the “eye poking” that goes on here is on the part of the more right wing persuasion. The conservatives are also fairly “liberal” with the name calling, invective, insinuations and the occasional “accidental” outright lie. That you feel you take the heat for them is unfortunate. I myself am one of the most vicious of the liberal “attack dogs”. But I take deliberate pains to acknowledge the more moderate and even apologize if the fallout of my post burns them.
Everything is bushs’ fault! That’s what the right makes of any liberal arguement. Well at least as concerns the bitter divisive nature of politics in America. That IS bush’s fault. That and his rabid unapologetic followers.
Remember the bussed in rioters who shut down the Florida recount? Remember the crowds that gathered outside the Naval Observatory shouting for Al Gore to get out of Dick Cheneys house? Remember “A president is president of all the people”?
There are those on the right that to me are such an example of what is wrong that I am honestly GLAD that they post here. It’s good to see the face of the enemy and let them shout from the rooftops just how bad they are. But as I find in them absolutely no hope of common ground, I mostly ignore them and savage their ideas and anything else about them I can. I get the same in kind and expect no different.
You conservatives have the power right now. If you are offended by liberal opinion of that, imagine how we must feel as victims of your particular ideologies.
Wow writerdog. YOU get it. Thank you so much for that post.
I dont ever feel like a token:) and I dont claim to speak for all gay folks any more than outlander and nathan speak for all christians.
“Not a mandate to right the world in the sense of forcing others to accept the teachings. It is not a guild to govern the masses, it is to govern the Christian.Lately it has been use to do the former, this makes it no better then Mien Kempt. And leads the Christian away from God not toward him.”
Brilliant writerdog. Pure brilliance.
I was working on my own post while you were writing this. You made the points much better than I, but I did apologize to sam, so maybe I better post it anyway. But it will never be as good as yours writerdog.
Thank you for understanding.
Seconded, KFG,
Well written and powerful writerdog.
Thank you JR. I am reduced to redundancy….
And I lost the post I was working on. Mostly, I wanted to apologize to Sam, and XXX, and Julie and any other supporters I have offended. My rants about civil rights dont apply to you if you are not voting against me and mine. Sam, if the shoe doesnt fit, you dont have to wear it.
I will only repeat here what writerdog said. I dont mean to attack the beliefs. In fact, in an earlier thread I praised christ’s teachings and said the world would be a better place if they were followed.
I do attack the people who use those beliefs like a club to beat the non-believers into submission and then drag them by the hair back to the church cave. I will never relent with them, and I will feel free to give as good as I get. I am no limpwristed coward and I will not be cowed by bullies with bibles.
Sam,I wonder if you are hurt by my words, AND by the knowledge of what other christians do to non-believers. You seem like a good and sensitive man, and maybe it is a little misplaced guilt that adds sting to my words.
If you dont do it, dont be sorry on behalf of the unrepentant. If you are not a clubber, you dont have to take offense at what I am saying.
Writerdog gets that I dont hate christians or their beliefs. I just LOVE FREEDOM. I want equal protection under the law. I will fight to the death for it. No kidding.
Of course, the reply meme will be that I must also want freedom to commit murder, and if I dont accept values boy’s definition of values, then I must not have ANY values. Bring a lunch and a jug of water values boy, ’cause it is gonna be a looooonnnng day.
I think we can agree on civil laws that protect the health, safety, property and well being of others while not making theology into law. Laws that protect your freedom of religion and protect my freedom FROM religion? Cant we?
My relationships hurt no one. We contribute as much to society with our love as straight people do with theirs. Really.
Even god supposedly granted free will. Why dont some of you do the same?
Thank you too Brian. No more dillons ‘tater salad, ohtay? :) Your posts rock.
GMC accused me the other day another thread of insinuating that any person of faith was also devoid of reason. Hey GMC? I wanted to let you know that I find writerdog to be very well reasoned. Jury is still out on you though.
Maybe we oughtta get the WE to charter a bus out to KFGs farm! I don’t much sing about “bringing in the sheaves” but I could probably learn to DO it.
I’ve never quite caught where that farm is kfg though you have probably said. (I only get the addresses of my political ENEMIES. That and when they go to work, sleep etc) To the more literalists of post readers that last was satire.
Oh Tay, KFG !!! :-))
Thank you for your most current and past complimentary posts about my posts. I’m always very humbled when people go to the trouble to do that. I don’t know why it doesn’t cross my mind more often to compliment a good post..I promise to try harder. In fact, I find a good many of the posts thought provoking and worth the read – and I mean from most EVERYONE, not just one particular camp. Again, I appreciate the opportunity afforded me by this forum to interact with so many well-spoken and thoughtful individuals.
It is also a foible of mine to sometimes be condescending or snide. It’s something that I’m working on. I hope to someday conquer it.
I also hope to be back in the US when the next meet-up happens. I look forward to meeting many of you if things work out as I plan.
I’ll email you JR about where my farm and businesses are located. I dont want any crosses burned on my lawns. :)
I think your meetings have been infiltrated by a gov’t. informant.Who would be the most likely suspect?
Government informant? What do you mean TRACY?
Just trying to keep it lively.Don’t worry.
What is “terrorism?”
Wow Ed, did you see the SIZE of that rabbit?
writedog,You truly are a breath of fresh air in a miserable place (this blog).
I do need to ask you a question about this quote:
“The Bible is as it always has been an owner’s manual for the Christian. Not a mandate to right the world in the sense of forcing others to accept the teachings. It is not a guild to govern the masses, it is to govern the Christian. Lately it has been use to do the former, this makes it no better then Mien Kempt.”
kssam is probably the best example of someone who I believe takes Christ’s message of salvation to the the “scurge of the Earth”. I believe that Christ came and took care of the ones who were “sick” (tax collectors, prostitutes, etc).
Do you believe that we (Christians)need to spread the Gospel (good news) about Christ to the world? If so, then the message that they have sinned and come short of the glory of God must be explained.
I’m not referring to any actions to force someone to believe. I’m referring to presenting the Truth to people with whom we come into contact.
W-Dawg,”Non-believers do not hate a Christian because he is a Christian, they hate a Christian because the Christian tells the non-believer that he is better then the non-believer.”
As a non-christian, I don’t hate christians. Why, some of my best friends are christian!What I’m seeing though, is that over the last few decades, christianity has taken a dangerous direction. And not just dangerous to non-christians. If it keeps going the way it’s going, the end result will be a totalitarian theocracy, born, growing and ending in bloodshed on a massive scale. Yes, armageddon is approaching, but it will be one of your own making! I really can’t believe that’s what most christians want, but if you keep following the path many of your current leaders are charting, you will arrive there soon!It is possible for christians and non-christians to live peaceably; we do it all the time on a personal level. So why do your most visible leaders issue calls to arms? Partly because a siege mentality stengthens belief in a world that they see as increasingly secular, although it is really no more or less secular than it’s always been. And partly because, as churches, politicians and businesses have always known, the production of fear is usually quite profitable.Various religions, ethnic groups and nations have been down this path before; never with much ideological success, but with ever increasing efficiency in killing people. Do we really have to do it again?
Writerdog,
Christ did embrace the sinner. I believe in doing that too. Every Christian church I have been too has done and preached the same.
Where did Christ preach tolerance for sin? Where did Christ teach to embrace the sinful lifestyle and support it?
When Christ stopped the crowd from stoning the adulterous woman for her sins, what did he say to the woman?
John 8:11
“I do not condemn you either, Go From now on sin no more.”
Yes, Jesus embraced the sinner. He did tell the sinner to sin no more though.
As far as KFG goes, I have not ever said she is not one of God’s children. Most Christians don’t preach that or say that either.
Christ was just as upfront about the fate of people too. Lets look at what Christ said to the Pharisees:
John 8:24
“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Christianity is not about sitting around in your basement, hiding your faith from the world, and never telling the truth to people.
Lets look at an analogy. Your kid is constantly walking out into the road without any regard to traffic. At some point if you care about the safety of your kid you are going to tell your kid that what he is doing is wrong and if needed punish him for it. You do this because you know that eventually a car is going to be driving down that road when your kid walks out there without a care in the world.
Just as you love your son and correct him and teach him we as Christians are called to do that for the world. If you know that someone is going to die without having a relation with Christ are you not called to share with him the truth and help them? Is it better as a Christian to be tolerant of someones sinful lifestyle and never tell them that it is wrong so you can spare their feelings and yours now while they suffer eternally for it later? Or is it better to tell them the truth and hope they repent and change so they can have the same relationship with Christ that you do eternally?
If you really loved and cared about KFG then you would tell her that you love her, but her lifestyle is one of sin and you are not going to embrace it.
Christianity is not about embracing sin.
As far as forcing people to be Christians? I have yet to see someone try that let alone succeed in that. Christianity is about a relation with Christ. Neither I nor any other Christian out there can force anyone to have a relationship with Christ. That is between Christ and the individual. I would not support any law or any movement to “force” people to be Christian.
You are right that there are Christians who think they are better than others. Most do not. I have been to many churches and have studied many different denominations. Almost all of the Christian churches do not teach that Christians are better than anyone else.
KFG..I am mostly heartbroken because I know people such as yourself have been driven away from the church, and I don’t know what to do to make it better.
Writerdog…My hat’s off to you.. you pretty much captured my beliefs and wrote it out much better than I ever could have! Thank you!
NoJoCo…”Do you believe that we (Christians)need to spread the Gospel (good news) about Christ to the world? If so, then the message that they have sinned and come short of the glory of God must be explained.”Absolutely… at the proper time, and with the proper love. Remember the old saying.. “Noone cares how much you know until they know how much you care”.Give the Spirit time to soften hearts.. and let your life point them toward Christ.
“Your kid is constantly walking out into the road without any regard to traffic.”
Thank you for illustrating my point. I am NOT your child or anyone else’s child.
Thank you for the warning about my soul. I’ll take my chances. Just because you want to “save” me doesnt mean I want your type of saving. You have no right to intrude like that.
I dont need you to protect me from anything, least of all the devil. I dont need to hear the good word AGAIN thank you very much. You have done your duty. Now go away and pester another group.
I wish to be treated as an adult and equal under the law. I wish to have equal protection under the law. You may dance the hokey pokey in your church and believe eating grapes are sinful. I dont care. I dont care if in your church you marry gays or not.
In fact, gays who seek marriage in your churches mystify me. It seems like a black person joining the kkk or a hispanic person wanting to be Ian’s best friend. WHY on earth would I want your blessing? What possible meaning could it have for me? Withhold it all you want!
I do care though when your freedom to believe supercedes my right to equal protection under the law. I do care when your churches are tax exempt but then ask people to sign letters to congress people during the service. I do care when you wage a jihad against public education.
I dont care what you believe in your heart. But if you can only participate in the civil arena by making laws that force us to live by your purely religious beliefs, be prepared. You want a culture war? You got it.
Funny how the pendulum swings. Someday, for some reason, you will need us, and we will remember how you have treated us in the civil arena.
heheh I’ll grant you EVERYTHING you have granted me. Be careful what you ask for. You might just get it some day.
Nathan, you didn’t follow your true calling. You should’ve become a minister.
“If you really loved and cared about KFG then you would tell her that you love her, but her lifestyle is one of sin and you are not going to embrace it.”
That’s YOUR opinion, based on YOUR beliefs. In fact, that entire post was nothing more than more shoveling and shoving. I refuse to judge KFG’s choice of lifestyle. It certainly has nothing to do with ME. What does it have to do with YOU? Did she ask you to embrace her lifestyle? To become a part of it? Uh, I don’t think so. There are certainly worse things in both life and this world than two people who love and care about each other.
“Christianity is not about sitting around in your basement, hiding your faith from the world, and never telling the truth to people.”
Neither is it about hitting them over the head, repeatedly. All that does is cause others to harden their heads (and hearts) to what you have to say. If I want your version of the truth, I will ask for it. Think I haven’t done that? Wrong.
Sam got it right in his reply to NoJoCo. “Absolutely… at the proper time, and with the proper love. Remember the old saying.. ‘Noone cares how much you know until they know how much you care’.”Give the Spirit time to soften hearts.. and let your life point them toward Christ.”
Try taking a page from his book. It sure beats belittling others.
WD, excellent post!
Personally, I’ve always thought of the Bible as a guidebook for the followers of Christ. Kind of a how-to with illustrative stories. :) You said it much better.
RD,
If you have observed my posting here, you might notice that the only time I engage in discussions about Homosexuality being a sin is after someone else is saying something about it.
I am not out beating people over the head and I don’t support that.
I am not going to sit here and reamin silent while KFG and many others keep saying things about Christianity which is not true.
This is a blog, we come here to talk and discuss ideas.
Oh, and BTW nojoco, I agree with your opinion about kansassam. He is a fine guy and a credit to his religion.
Funny that the guy we agree is exhibiting love and charity is the one feeling bad for the uncharitable spirits of others.
“I’m not referring to any actions to force someone to believe. I’m referring to presenting the Truth to people with whom we come into contact.”
I think that is called freedom of speech, and of course I support that. I think the problem is when you deny people justice based on a religious judgement. You speak your truth and I will speak mine and take our chances in the free market place of ideas.
But when people base laws on nothing more than your religious taste, or some misguided effort to protect me, or some mythology that you hold dear that is truely unamerican.
When an entire group of people is scapegoated for the failures of straight marriage, hehe, it reminds me of ruby blaming the gov because the legislature didnt do it’s job.
KFG,
You can’t get state recognition of your lifestyle.
Stop pretending like you are chained up in a basement somewhere with bread and water.
Outlander, great JibJab! My favorite is This Land. I still go back to watch it and always laugh. My favorite part of it? When Hillary slaps Bill and he says, “What’d I do?”
Tee Hee
Wow, thanks RD. Great post. I did feel shoveled upon. Kinda like bush apologizing last night and then winking and grinning and smirking at reports. Somehow, I just dont believe it.
“You can’t get state recognition of your lifestyle.” No not in this state. Not until the courts weigh in. Of course, then they will be activist judges.
“Stop pretending like you are chained up in a basement somewhere with bread and water.”
Yes dear. I know that is what you think we deserve. It is clear. You think I should grovel and be grateful when I get anything more than that.
Sorry dude. The time has come for us to have a seat at the civil table. Unless you think your christ would have made us sit in the back of the bus.
I am remembering all this nathan so that someday, I will cast the appropriate vote on YOUR lifestyle. Think it cant happen? Just keep thinking that.
KFG, I don’t know. Maybe the thing to do would be to disallow all legal marriages. No special anythings for anyone married. Everyone is considered single by law. By faith? Well, that would be their business. Heterosexual marriage isn’t all it’s cracked up to be anyway, considering the amount of adultery (and I’m not just talking sleeping with a married woman…how male dominant is that anyway?) and number of divorces.
Peace, love, and pass me a joint!
(The above was tongue-in-cheek for those who didn’t “get it.”)
TEE HEE
Heheh georgia’s courts have already overturned their hate amendment. Other decisions are pending. Only a matter of time boy.
And, here is the best part. Gay marriage now has an approval rating of 46 percent.
And bush? 29 to 34 percent, depending on the polls. I think the 34 percent comes from fox news.
Gay marriage has a higher approval rating than the preznit. And our numbers are going up. The preznit’s? Sinking like a rock. Headed south. Sliding down the pole like a cheap stripper.
The sheeple are waking up nathan. Someday, all this will come home to roost for you and yours. More likely in your lifetime than mine.
And I am laughing my queer ass off.
heheh. filling the bong right now!
I’ve changed my mind. Nathan should be a telemarketer. The words, “No thanks,” mean nothing to him. ;) If he had just a tad more charm (not that he isn’t charming, in his own way) I’ll bet he could charm the garters off of old ladies.
See, I don’t have a problem with gays. BI-sexuals, on the other hand… Well, now that’s just GREEDY. (As we say in chat rooms: LOLOLOLOL)
KFG,I think I have heard you speak of this before, but your sexuality is not a “lifestyle” – like you could go to the mall and exit with a different “lifestyle”. Your sexuality is a personal part of your “life”.
To me to say “we love you, but this small thing here, your right arm, well we just hate that” is the definition of disingenousness. And it offends me that you ever have to endure crap like that.
Never forget, you can have dinner at my house any time. As a heads up, you should come when it’s my night to cook. :-) Italian and to a lesser extent Mexican are my specialities.
Farm Gal,”You can’t get state recognition of your lifestyle.”Just to let you know, I for one won’t rest until you do get the recognition you and every other citizen deserves! That includes marriage. I put my dog in this fight long before Stonewall, and he’s still got a few good bites left in him!
My daughter suggested I point something out. The Bible states that man shall not lie with man, but it says nothing about woman lying with woman. So if we’re going to take the Bible literally…
If God exists, why would he create a gay person just so He could send them to hell? Makes no sense to me. If someone is going to live their life according to the teachings of Christ, then they would decry divorce more than homosexuality. Jesus spoke out more against that. How many “good Christians” have been divorced or come from broken homes? Why don’t they speak out more about the social repercussions of children growing up without both parents? Seems like that’s much more harmful to the world than two gay people in a committed, loving relationship. Why not speak out about child abuse, greedy CEOs, corrupt politicians, war, man’s inhumanity to man, and a host of other sinful human behaviors? Why are they always so eager to condemm gay people whose “lifstyle” hurts no one?BTW, I plan to come to the next meet up. Wouldn’t want to miss the potato salad!
Damoon, allow me to answer your questions:
“If God exists, why would he create a gay person just so He could send them to hell?”
As it stands now, there is not any conclusive evidence to show homosexuality is anything more than a choice.Either way, God is a fair and just God. If someone was indeed born the way they are, a homosexual, then only God will know their hearts. All I know is that homosexuality is defined in the Bible as a sin.
“How many “good Christians” have been divorced or come from broken homes?”
Too many. Divorce is highly frowned upon, discouraged, and not supported by many Christian churches. That is why so many Pastors give premarriage counciling and do everything they can to help couples in their marriage and before they get married.I don’t know where you go to church, but every church I have attended spends less than 1% of their time talking about homosexuality.
“Why don’t they speak out more about the social repercussions of children growing up without both parents?”
People in the church speak out against divorce all the time. It just so happens that homosexuality is the popular topic of the day and is usually the only thing elevated to a status by media that everyone hears.
“Why not speak out about child abuse, greedy CEOs, corrupt politicians, war, man’s inhumanity to man, and a host of other sinful human behaviors?”
Christians do all the time. Like I said, of all the churches I have been to and all the seminars given, less than 1% of it has anything to do with homosexuality.
“Why are they always so eager to condemm gay people whose “lifstyle” hurts no one?”
The majority of Christians don’t condemn gay people they don’t accept homosexuality and teach that it is a sin, which it is.
I hate to break it to you, but Christians don’t spend hardly anytime at all worrying about homosexuality.
We spend more time worrying about how we are going to afford to pave the parking lot to accomodate more visitors than we do on homosexuality…
NoJoCo, what is it that makes the Bible the enlighten word of God? It is not the words in and of themselves. One could read the Bible cover to cover, be able to quote it chapter and verse. Yet not know nor see God’s word in it. It is only through faith and believe that you see the enlighten word of God.
If I were to come to your house and knock on the door, when you open it I tell you that you house is on fire and you should run for your salvation! Will you run for salvation or look for the proof that there is smoke and flames coming from your home? I can point and say can you not see the smoke? Can you not feel the flames? But until you see it for yourself, what is there to make you believe in abandoning your house?
Like that, I can say to you that your sin is damning you to hell, that your life style is an abomination to God.But until you have see it for yourself, my words are meaningless to you. Now once you have seen the smoke and flames, my words may come back to you. But that is why a Christian must choose their words wisely, again with the house and fire, what if I had came and kicked in your door and shouted “HEY YOU MORON, YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND YOU ARE A DAMNED FOOL IF YOU DO NOT RUN!“I have become the smoke and flames, I am now the greater danger. You are only seeing me and not what you need to see for your salvation.
A Christian need not shout from a mountain top to be heard, it can be a whisper. Or some words on a page in a blog. Have I answered your question?
This thread concerned the editors finally acknowledging us bloggers and planning to meet us.
It is worth noting that the Editors have not weighed in further as to what the meet up will be. They might want to address that. Why should folks come?
Somewhere along the line it evolved (sorry I know some don’t like that word) into a religious debate. Not surprising that. It happens on many threads. I daresay religion is THE topic that generates the most response. There is even a thread as to the Davinci code movie that is probably the most posted in the WE history that I can no longer see because of the constraints of my technology. The former most posted thread also concerned religion.
As the subject was meet ups, I’d offer here to anyone with reservations as to attending my own personal experience. Nathan is polite and reserved at meet ups. He is just a wanker online. In defense of the “other side” I practically begged our conservative posters to attend the one I helped make happen. But I cut them no slack online.
I always post the thread. Now its my turn to join the battle.”You are not going to be allowed to get married kfg, period”I’m sorry that I don’t have a back up for that. The words may be off a bit. But that sentiment was expressed by you Nathan. And you will forgive me if I cannot see that as anything more than a calculated, mean, cruel, stick in the eye of someone you not only disagree with but sought actively to provoke. “Love the sinner hate the sin”? That doesn’t seem your mission Nathan. Your mission seems to be “I am right and God says so therefore you are wrong.” This is not just MY opinion Nathan. And as MANY posters have suggested on many threads, you do no service winning folks to your faith here.
I am not gay. I’m a white straight single dad. Arguably, I am among the LEAST persecuted of folks. One might wonder why I so decry religion and faith. It is simply this. If there WERE a “God” I’d expect more of him than the reaffirmation of the petty prejudices, demand of obedience to a higher authority, and provincialismthat are all too HUMAN traits.
And the thread evolved while I was composing my last.
Damn Damoon! Don’t put the nut jobs onto kids in single parent homes. That is me and my son!
JR, nothing wrong with single parents. Sometimes it’s far better for kids to have one good parent than two mediocre ones. Parenting alone makes it all the responsibility of one person. To misquote the Prez, it’s a hard job. :)
Oh, wait! I’m not a nut job, just a single parent.
CF = BLOGWHORE.
Go check out my latest screed regarding current KBOE Spokesmodel and former Eagle editorial page editor David Awbrey, to see what The Beaver has done THIS time.
http://serendipitydooday.blogspot.com/
I will responded to Nathan and Jed with one post to save space please find what you feel is toward a response to your points:
There is as much divisions amongst Christians as there is amongst those on this board about politics.Though both have the same goals in mind, all claiming and thinking that their thoughts are the right ones.Nathan and I are of the same party, but see it in different views of how and what it means. We have the same core points and see a different route that those core points should be reached by.
Yes I believe that the greatest danger to my believes are not from those outside of my believes but from inside. That can be taken for both Christianity and the Republican party, there seems to be quite similar aspects to both in this. Both are being taken in a direction that could actually destroy that which the members hold dear. By those that believe the membership has become sluggish and stale, giving into the outside in the form of compromise and selling off the core believes. But this is the world and not a vacuum, with the death of the last will become the death of all. You can make a slave of a defeated enemy, but not a friend in that when you are forcing an enemy to conform to your wishes. They do not come to you of their free will. They may live as you think they should, follow the rules you think they must. But do not see the reasons as you do.
“There was one less murder today, I chose to not kill”, free will is the key and there is where the victory comes. Laws are meaningless without the single person deciding that today I will follow the law. No one forced me to not kill, if I wanted to someone would be dead now. There is a law against killing and that may force me to think twice. But it was me and not the law that made the choice not to kill.
The sin I must face, that will truly effect me is not in you but in me. Therefore I could be walking with those that daily live for nothing but sin. I do not have to like everything one does to know that I must not sin. It depends on what you want from all this? If it is a world free of sin, a law will hide the sin and make believe that which offends me and God does not exists. I am a fool, if I do not see it, then is must not be and my goal is accomplished.
But is God’s? He who sees everything, nothing is hidden from! If it is my own desire, then to legislate sin from sight is good enough. If it is God’s desire then all the laws hiding sin from my sight will not fulfill his desires. For sin has not been stopped, it has been hidden from me! Every woman in the world could walk around naked, but is it truly their nudity that will cause me to look or my own desire that will? Is the sin theirs or mine?
By attempting to force the life choices of Christianity upon others that do not believe, it serves only to end Christianity. It does not farther the faith, the faith is in the soul and not the world. Every porn shop in town could be torn down and Immanuel II, III and IV could be build. But would that mean there would be any more Christians? It is the believes that make a Christian, not the building their are in on Sunday morning, not the walk they follow in life. A Christian walks the path they do, not because the Bible tells them to but because of the faith they have.
By forcing other to live the life choices of a Christian, you do not make them a Christian! By hiding the sin from your eyes, does not stop the sin! By going about trying to hide the sin, you are now one of those that cast the stones. It is not whether you tell me if I am ugly or pretty that makes me feel that way. Until I decide that for myself the words will mean little in how I see myself.
The part of the Bible that speaks of Homosexually, is directed toward a people of faith and what THEY must not do. But first you must be a person of faith for it to apply to you. Jesus also said to the crowd, “Ye with out sin cast the first stone!”.
“My daughter suggested I point something out. The Bible states that man shall not lie with man, but it says nothing about woman lying with woman. So if we’re going to take the Bible literally…”RD
True but women are not to lay with animals, them were some wild county folk back then huh?A dog is man’s best friend and it appears that like a best friend you might not want to trust them to be alone too long with your wife!That is a subject that we may not want to get to far in to! Politics and religion are the two my dad said you might not want to discuss with a friend. That one could offend even those that break that taboo here!
Thank you all for your support. There really are some wonderful people here.
DD, thank you especially for pointing out the lifestyle thing. I thought about that last night, and regretted using that word. It is indeed my LIFE, not my lifestyle.
” Divorce is highly frowned upon, discouraged, and not supported by many Christian churches.”
Then…why no constitutional amendment against divorce?
As to the choice issue, there is substantial research regarding the origins of homosexuality, and almost all of it points to genetics, not choice. But then, some of these guys dont believe in the science of evolution, so pointing links to the science of gayness is pointless.
But let me be clear. Even though I was born with this orientation, I still CHOOSE it as well. I fought it for years, but now? I choose it. I would not be any other way, even if I had a choice.
We are wonderful people too. I am proud to be who I am and proud of other people like me. Maybe not all of them, lololol, but most of them. You should have seen us in our suits testifying for two consecutive years in the kansas taliban temple in topeka.
ANY community would have been proud to have us as leaders. And the opposition? They looked and sounded like fred. And nathan, but nathan looks better than fred. His lofty moral position and bigotry havent taken their toll on nathan’s good looks… YET!
heh writerdog. The more bigoted already try to tie us to poligamy and pedophelia, AND beastiality.
You havent heard anyone say “why, if we let two consenting adult gay people marry, what would be next? People marrying their german shepards? People marrying sheep?”
Give me the german shepard over bigots anyday!
CF, what a fetching blogwhore you are!! I love your new blog, and this last entry is just a howler.
Ya just cant make this stuff up!
http://serendipitydooday.blogspot.com/
Didn’t mean to offend anyone who is divorced and/or a single parent, just making a point. My daughter is divorced and that was the best thing that happened to her in her first marriage. Nathan, no one chooses to be gay any more than they choose to be heterosexual, and there are studies and evidence to support this. Sexuality is predetermined just like the color of one’s eyes or hair…and in this country, everyone has the right to be happy and have family relationships.My point is that there are so many other critical issues to deal with in our society, I don’t understand why the religious right wastes so much time on a non issue, other than for the sake of their own bigotry. Gay people being able to make a legal commitment is no threat to anyone or anything.Worry about your own soul, and let others take care of themselves. This whole “love the sinner, not the sin” is bullshit. No one on the religious right is motivated by love concerning this issue.
This is a link to an excellent book on how divorce affects children:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307237109/102-1227607-7771310?v=glance&n=283155
The author debunks the myth that bad marriages are worse for children than divorce and further debunks the myth that “correctly done” divorces immunize children from the harms of divorce.
The author has quantitative and qualitative data to back up what she claims.
Welcome back Damoon. I do like it how you get to the point without a lot of fancy footwork.
“Also, fyi: I’m trying to schedule a gathering at The Eagle. Looks as if Thursday, June 22, from 6:30 to 8 p.m. might be the best date and time for us. What do you think?Posted by Phillip Brownlee”
Isn’t Phillip saying that the proposed meet-up will be at the Eagle? You know, downtown?
I am not trying to bad mouth any parent who gets divorced, either. But I think there was a movement that tried to say that divorce had little effect on children. Maraquardt’s book and research – linked above – clearly show this is not the case.
I am a divorced parent, too. If you are one too, I would suggest avoiding the book if experiencing guilt is a big problem for you. I had to nearly sit on my ex-wife to get her to read the book. I still don’t know that she has yet.
Here’s link to a summary of the book:
http://www.betweentwoworlds.org/pages/summary.php
“I had to nearly sit on my ex-wife to get her to read the book. I still don’t know that she has yet.”
Re-reading my words was a reminder that you can’t “give” people insight, or “force” someone to be a Christian. Despite these truths, people seem to keep trying these futilities.
I keep seeing people talking about Christians forcing others to be Christian.
What Christians are forcing others to be Christian or trying to?
Nathan– Give it a rest!
I think the perception is that some Christians are forcing people to act in accordance to Christian beliefs, not forcing someone to be a Christian. For example, ksfarmgrrl might feel like all of this anti-gay legislature is trying to force her to deny her identity and act in accordance to Christian beliefs (straight) in order to enjoy equal rights under the law (tax breaks, joint health insurance, etc) and avoid persecution.I wonder if that made sense.
Oops. That sounded presumptuous. I don’t speak for ksfarmgrrl, of course. Sorry KFG :)
Though I know it is a waste of time, Nathan – see this link:
http://www.kingdomcoming.com/
Your questions will be answered. I think Tara has it right in the post above, too.
Tara, you made perfect sense. Great to see you popping in here again.
Tara- I agree — rather than forcing, it’s more like bullying.
I am not forcing or bullying KFG into anything.
She is the one demanding that she be given state recognition by marriage.
I have not taken that away. It was never there.
No, you’re trying to deny her identity, the essence of whom she is because it doesn’t fit into your the grand scheme of things. Why don’t you worry about Nathan? I know I can’t walk on water, and I’m pretty certain you can’t either, all your posts aside.
::sigh::
The “her” would be KFG, at least!
DD, another good book on this issue is “Our Endangered Values: America’s Moral Crisis” By Jimmy Carter. He’s right on about the agenda of the religious right. It’s really scary.
I remember you mentioning it before. I will have to get it. Thanks.
Thank you Tara, with all the babbling I have been doing you explained part of what I should have been saying. And it did not take a cup of coffee to get through! LoL Man I can get long winded when I get fired up!
Back in the stone age it seem so long ago, I was told that homosexuals did not have committed relationship. It was all about one night stands, I did not even hear anything about lesbians till my middle teen years.I had to explain to my grandmother what a lesbian was when a character on a show said she was one.After this sixteen y.o. explained to his seventy five y.o. grandmother what the term meant, she said she had heard of girls that enjoyed the company of other girls but did not know there was a name for it.
There has been so must misinformation and secrecy about homosexually that the straight world does not know much more then it is a sin. Perhaps in part it is the fear that to look to close at the reason and causes, there maybe something that one see in themselves. Considering the differences between how men and women think, I sometimes wonder why we ever come together. OK there is a topic to run with!!!!!
Live and let live I say.
Well mostly.If a woman wants to share love, life time and wordly possesions with another human being who happens to also be female, I say fine. (Under my breath, I say, “Can I watch?)
I find it troubling, even offensive, that a person who I have come to know as a friend has to become the center of so much discussion and attention just because her idea of love is different. Just when did love become such a known and defined thing anyway? If we do not fully understand a thing, do we have the wisdom to judge it in others?
I CONFESS. If the subject was male homosexuality, I might have a little trouble being so understanding. I even find myself wondering if I would be vocal at all in defending it. But when I think twice about it, the idea of “copping out” sort of chills me a little deeper than any “ick” factor.
(Aplologies for this next to the more even minded among the faithful)
Most people believe in God. If they choose to believe that some all powerful invisible entity created the world and then basically excused itself further responsibility I call that harmlessly delusional. If they can accept that people can be just as good or bad as they like and their reward/punishment is reserved until after they die and based upon their acceptance of one account of theology and they cannot report back, I call that “not so harmlessly ignoring this world because of focus on “the next”. But still not much a problem.
If a person begins to presume to speak for or understand the otherwise invisible intent of this “entity” and them begins to demand or at least encourage others to feel they don’t measure up in some way, I call that dangerous. My liberal tolerance begins to come to an end. I begin to feel that such folk might best be watched carefully and their message occasionally disputed. You know, since “god” hasn’t exactly weighed in.
But the extreme folk; the ones who begin to make laws over other men/women based on their “special relationship” with “God”?; I call those folk enemies of freedom. Maybe they just have not got around to persecuting as many people as they would like to. They might just not have got to me or someone I know yet. But as I and perhaps most do not share their “special dispensation” we no doubt will eventually be found lacking, and treated accordingly.
I hate to break it to you, but I am not doing anything to KFG and neither are Christians.
KFG can be as gay as she wants.
She is demanding state recognition of her homosexual relationship.
As a member of the state, I don’t think she deserves special recognition because she chooses to be gay.
DD,
Thanks for the link. I’ll take a look at the book next time I’m over at Barnes and Noble.
“If a woman wants to share love, life time and worldly possessions with another human being who happens to also be female, I say fine. (Under my breath, I say, “Can I watch?)”
LOL oh JR!I am glad you said it!I agree though this discussion is an attempt to look at it in a clinical nature. when it is not a clinic matter to KFG it is her life and love. Both subjects are not a clinical matter to anyone no matter who they love and how their life is. Heterosexuals can not associate their life to that of a homosexual, or envision what it truly is like to love someone of the same sex. As I touched on in an earlier post, it really is in part out of fear.As a human being, I am not homophobic as a man I can not understand how I could love another man or want to have sex with one. Those are two different subjects and only now are we (heterosexuals) realizing that there is more to Homosexually then just sex.
Anyway, out of respect for my new friend and the subject of sexuality and Religion is too emotional to have it settled here. I for one will not longer give my input, OK and I have ran out of things to say anyway on the subject….LoL Even can I watch?
I feel safe playing to laughs with the “can I watch?” bit. I bet kfg would be the first to confirm that MOST heterosexual men have no problem watching. The problem is in understanding.
Now don’t you dare spare your input writerdog. I bet kfg says the same. I want to apologize in advance to you and to our more even minded posters of faith for my next.
I’d like to take Nathan’s second to last post and rewrite it and see what he thinks. (Assuming he thinks)
I hate to break it to you, but I am not attacking Christianity or Christians.
Christians can be as deluded and take comfort in their fairytales as much as they like as it gives them comfort.
But Christians and their churches enjoy tax exempt status. They have exemption from taxes on the money they collect from folks who they exploit their need to believe in a god.
As a member of the state, I don’t think Christians and their churches deserve tax exempt status for being delusional and exploiting the delusions and needs of others particularaly when they urge their “flock” to be politically active.
Oh and Nathan? Before you can prove that homosexuality is a choice (impossible) I’ll assign you another impossible task.
Prove that God exists.
jr,Can you prove that you exist?
Did you announce you were running for some office or other a while back NoJoCo? I did ask that of you before. You didn’t answer. If I am mistaken could you clear that up?
In the words of Descartes who was also I believe the inventor of Calculus, “I think therefore I am.”
Answered your question?
And as ever you did not address the thread NoJoCo. Do YOU plan to attend the WE meet up?
Do you plan to answer my question?
Or is this yet another example among many of you slipping into a thread, spouting off mostly in a congratulatory post of another poster you agree with or an attack on one you don’t, and then slipping away?
?
JR, the inventors of calculus were Newton and Leibnitz. In the wake of discoveries of manuscripts attributed to Archimedes on exhaustive division of parts, he is also getting some belated credit.
Descartes invented coordinate algebra and geometry, without which calculus would not be possible.
special recognition? what is so special about straight marriage?
No, I want THE SAME equal protection under the law that you all enjoy.
Tara, you can speak for me any day. That was well said. Thank you all for your support and understanding that the time has come for bigots like nathan to realize…
gay marriage has higher approval ratings than the preznit. That has GOTTA hurt a true believer like the ones here.
Heheh. And I used to have a girlfriend who would have LOVED to have you all watch.
On the other hand, if you mentioned watching, my current “sweetie” would rip your heart out and take a big bite out of it while it was still beating and you were still watching.
Heheh. But some of you would like to watch THAT too!
Good enough JR, it would open another Pandora’s box to ask the next question “So why do we like to watch?”. Sammy Davis Jr told the story of him and four women in a room one night, at first he was filling in where ever there was a opening. But soon he ended up just setting in a chair in the corner as the women were not paying any attention to him! He said it actually was one of the most depressing feelings he ever had.
Oh boy! Pastor Fox just said he has moved just about eight miles away from me! I met him once when I went to Immanuel on an invite to actually see that what you see on the T.V. is not the entire message he gives. That is another subject and person I can get fired up about! I hope he is not a late night person, I do not always control myself and where I work you are not to express your opinion on anything! In fact to just say the word “abortion” can get you fired! For the most part as long as someone does not ask for my opinion I do keep my mouth shut. Just do not ask if you do not want to know! To me he is one of the greatest threats to the faith and its future. And one of the best example for what you have said about crossing the line and being tax exempt.
What you asked of Nathan is one of the reasons I was against the move to put Creationism into the school.It is faith and not proof that the believe is build on, to put God into the realm of science without a clear proof of his existence. Will in fact cause more damage to the faith then to science, since faith is believing in something that is beyond that which one can touch, see or hear. Beyond that which a reasonable believe could explain. Yes in a real sense Christians put the “cart before the horse” First one must make a leap in logic that God exist. Devoid of any proof that can be pointed to that could convince someone that in fact there is a God. A term that most Christian will be familiar with “the miracle of faith”, in a nutshell that is one of the examples of the miracle.
You may have seen this before as I remember relating it on here or the message boards: I was asked the following question, “Which is better to believe insincerely in a true God or sincerely in a false God?”.I realized the person asking it was trying to trip me up and make fun of my answer.
I told him I could not make a snap answer to the question and I would answer in a week. At the end of the week I gave this answer, “ A true God would know that you are insincere in your believe so your believe would do you no good. But if by your believe in a false God, your life and the lives of those around you are better for your believe. Then that would be better!”.
Like the question of whether homosexually is a matter of choice or a matter of genes, there is several studies that will support the existence of God. But they also start from a preconceived outcome, they if you believe will affirm that believe. If you do not than it will not convince you that God exist. The studies that support that Homosexually is genes are for the most part based more on speculation at this point then a provable fact. A set of genes that seem to be present in Homosexuals but not in Heterosexuals, but they can not state with fact these genes cause homosexually.
Like so a study that supports the existence of God points to what maybe a random occurrence. It is the seeing through the eyes of the faith that one see a tree is more then a tree.
…and writerdog, as you mentioned, people dont know us except for some of us cowards scurrying like roaches whenver the light of recognition comes on.
Someone here said it hasnt been that long ago that we were illegal, and could go to jail for showing our love for our partners.
I notice that the longer someone has been out, the harder sometimes it is for them to REALLY be out. The oldtimers are the ones used to hiding and living in the shaddows. For obvious reasons.
That kind of secrecy, people driven underground by laws now defunct, makes it hard for us to organize and raise money for political campaigns.
Especially to overcome the power of people who meet at least twice weekly, are funded by church donations, get their political marching orders from the pulpit, and misguidedly think they are doing gods work in spreading the gospel of hate and bigotry.
That is why I will NEVER forgive gov. leadership for telling us to go screw ourselves and defeat the hate amendment at the ballot box instead of lifting a FINGER to keep it off the ballot. She could have helped, and deliberately chose not too. Nice.
That is also why it is so important for gay people, as the great Harvey Milk once said, to “come out come out wherever you are”. People cant know us unless we make ourselves visible. If we lurk in the shadows, hide, and act ashamed of our loves, our lives, and our beliefs, no wonder people treat us like cockroaches. We act like them!!
Yes, believe me, I know the dangers of publicly acknowledging who I am and the wrongness of the hated amendment.
As someone who lost their job and was dragged through the mud for publicly speaking out, on a day of vacation, that bigotry was wrong, I do know the consequenses.
Was it worth it to me personally? No. Was it important for people out here who know me and who I am, to see that if I am not afraid, and they shouldnt be either? yes.
Were the front page articles embarassing for me? yes. But they were more embarassing for the elected officials here who showed their asses.
I mean, even conservative republican state senator Ralph Ostmeyer said I should not have been fired and took our local leaders to task for pissing away a great resource. That is an endorsement for a liberal, gay, democrat at the time, from a big time religious, republican, catholic conservative.
God DAMN! IF ralph can support me because he knows me, maybe it IS worthwhile coming out.
Do you think the horrible things people say to me are enjoyable? Do you think I get some pleasure for making myself a target of bigotry? Hell no. But I think, for me personally, it is my duty. Straight people need to know we are just like them. Some good, some assholes, some in between.
Yep. I fall into the asshole catagory. But I still refuse to hide and be ashamed. SHAME is the devil’s work, not love. There are good people who are also gay. Why they do not speak here is a mystery to me. I cant be the only gay person reading this blog.
So for all you queer cowards out there, stand up, smile, and tell folks who you are. Yes, it is uncomfortable, yes, you will be accused of flaunting and being in their faces, yes, it will be embarassing and difficult, but it is important.
Vichy queers sit back and let the rest of us do the heavy lifting while they remain invisible in politics, law enforcement, medical clinics, law firms, CPA firms, education, and yes… the pulpit.
YOU vichy queers are getting a free ride from those of us willing to stand up for truth and for our community.
So coward queers, get off your asses and tell someone, anyone, TODAY, that you are gay. Do something for yourselves instead of whining and sniveling.
It only hurts for a little while…
One more thing…
I think our so called one night stands are easier to accept for the more rabid faithful. They HATE it that the majority of us are serial monogamists… just like they are!
Sorry to correct you, KFG, but I’ve known plenty of “rabid faithful” who were into one night stands. Usually they’re the ones who decry “immoral” behavior the most.
heheheheh. Good to see you Damoon. We missed you at the meetup and here. YOU ROCK… even when we dont agree. Especially when we dont agree!
You are right on target with this post, which is why I object so strongly to these same people claiming the moral high ground.
Writerdog,
“To me he is one of the greatest threats to the faith and its future. And one of the best example for what you have said about crossing the line and being tax exempt.”
Really?
I am curious writerdog.
What is it that makes you think he is one of the greatest threats to Christianity?
What is it that he does which is crossing the tax exempt line?
KFG, how many rightous, in your face, married Christian leaders can you think of that have committed adultry or got caught with a prostitute?Let’s see….Jesse Jackson, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Martin Luther King, and I personally know four priests and a very well known minister in Wichita (If I named names, I’m sure the editorial board would censure me).Can you think of any more to add to the list?
PS When I say priests, I don’t mean the child molestors. One fathered a child, another paid for his girlfriend’s abortion, and two got caught solicting in the park for sex.Also when I said one was a well known minister, I forgot he was having as affair with ANOTHER well known minister.”Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.
Damoon,
First, Christians are not perfect. No one is perfect. The mere lack of perfection is not reason to dismiss any reason to be better.
Second, you are once again twisting scripture for your bashing purposes.
The passage you refer to talks about condemning people for their sin. None of those Pastors or Priests you mention were condemning anyone. Merely speaking out against sin is not throwing stones.
Jesus, just after saying that, went on to say to sin no more.
Telling people they are sinning or telling them to not sin anymore is not casting stones as the Bible speaks of.
Since it appears as if we are trying to degrade all of Christianity based on the actions of the few I suppose I could start posting about all the bad things Homosexuals do to?
jr,I’m not sure what your problem is regarding some notion you have that I may or may not have plans to run for some office, but the answer is NO.
I’m not a full-time blogger like some of you. I think that some of you are probably old and have nothing better to do than sit at home and run your mouths (on the computer). It’s really pathetic that some of you are older but you haven’t learned anything in life but you know how to complain and whine.
Oh and about the invitation from Phillip…
Thanks, but no thanks.
NoJoCo, you’re knocking old people? So tell me, just how old is old? I’ve always been curious.
Nathan since you asked, there is a difference between pointing out sin and taking action against the sinner.Let us go with the “Marriage Amendment “ this will be old news but it is the real points of the matter.What exactly did it do? There was already a law against Gay marriage from the 1870’s, that had withstood several challenges in court and was upheld. To say it was to protect from the Federal government coming in and legalizing gay marriage is a straw man for the same reason a national ban on gay marriage would/will be.
It is unconstitutional, the Federal government does not have the legal authority to make such a law! it violates the premise of states right and the Constitution’s separation of powers. Either way such a law will be stuck down in the federal courts. The Bush administration can argue till the cows come home that it is a matter of commerce. But it would do no good as long as the courts follow the law, it is that simple.
Another straw man… Protecting the sanctity of marriage. The problem with that of course is where is the push to stop any other perceived threat to marriage? And what is the sanctity of marriage if not a holy bond between two people that commit their lives to each other? Tell me where is the threat if any two of a legally recognized age committing to one another? I have been married for close to thirty years and have lived at one time or another next to couples that were man and wife, wife and wife, man and man, drunkard and saint. A pretty blond with a come here smile is more of a threat to my marriage then Adam and Steve or Eve and Amanda. The real sanctity of marriage is between two people and not between the couple and the state.
Now there were several different groups pushing this amendment, there were the employers and insurance company gave support because if gays were allow to marry it would increase their cost in the form of benefits and group rated insurance. There were of course the Religious rights people (Fox) that took the bible to a extreme that it is not. If you are a Christian then you will not practice homosexually, you will keep the Sabbath holy. etc. That is the tenets of being a Christian, if you are not a Christian they do not apply!You said that no one is forcing anyone to be a Christian! No but such actions are forcing other to live as a Christian. By the rules and laws of being a Christian, the faithful live by these rules not by force but by choice. There is no law that said you have to keep the Sabbath except in the Bible and the Bible does not apply to anyone other then the faithful.
The third group that supported this amendment? Those that saw it as a way to Gay bash, “Take that you fagots!”.
Now you asked about Pastor Terry Fox and why I see him as a threat to the faith?Just how many do you think he will lead to Christ with what he is doing? He reaffirms the stereo type of the Christian as being judgmental. Holier-then-thou, is that what a Christian is or should be? You know that we are not, but then again you know Christ! He has said he is doing what he does out of love, but where is that love? It is in his church and none to be seen otherwise. I had this discussion on the message board with a guy that went by SWL. My best friend and SWL are members of Immanuel. Both asked me to come for just one service and I would see that Pastor Fox preaches more then what is seen on the T.V.
To be fair I did, most of the hour was taken up by “how to know if you are in trouble with your money”.Intermixed with some Bible verses. Few of those at that, then he spent ten minutes on the “Book of Daniel” not the Bible book but the T.V. show….He had never seen it! yet he promise to get the new owner of channel 3 home address and phone number. So the flock could express their displeasure at the new owner’s decision to air the show. I had watched it, more to see what the hub-bub was about then any real thought I would likeit. But as a matter of fact I did like, the relationship of Daniel and Jesus was very good, we often speak to Jesus in our day. It could be said that Jesus does speak back, in the show Jesus is a real figure but Jesus can speak to you through others. Have you ever had a problem that was weighting your mind and suddenly someone said just the right thing to clear up the problem for you? I liked the answers that the character said, when Daniel was overwhelmed with the problems in his life. He asked Jesus why life was so hard at times? “The reason life is hard is because the reward at the end of it is so great”.
Daniel asked Jesus why he was just talking to him? “I talk to everyone…It is just most choose not to listen”.Boy now that really portrays Christ in a bad light! The character did not excuse sin as Pastor Fox said.He just helped Daniel put it in prospective, that we all fall short and sometimes shorter then others.That if Jesus does not give up on us, who are we to give up?
That is a problem, non-believers do not see all the good works that Pastors do. They only see Phelps, Pastor Fox and Right, that is what they will judge Christianity on. There is an attack on Christianity, it is Christians doing it. There is a difference between living a Christian life and being told you have to. If that Marine D.I had walked up to you at prom night and shouted “Give me twenty maggot!”. Would you or was there a difference when you were at boot?
Pastor Fox goes out of his way to give the wrong message to non-believers, in that light he is no different then Phelps. You would say he is spreading the Gospel, I say he is enforcing it… Big difference!Should we talk about how I feel about the Mega churches?
Great post, Dog!! I think what pisses me off the most is the hypocrisy of certain spiritual leaders, so willing to condemm others, and all the while making excuses to themselves as to why they don’t follow their own Christian rules.Growing up in the Catholic Church, I saw so much hyprocrisy that I developed a bad taste for organized religion. Life is about what and who we are and how we impact other’s lives. It has nothing to do with following rules set forth by someone who lives in a glass palace rather than the real world. Whether or not there is life after death is not my concern, I just see my responsibility to be the best person I can be and try to make the world a better place for those around me.Nathan, everyone does bad things, but to hold oneself up as the shining example of how the rest of the world should live, then you better be prepared to walk the walk. It’s not Christianity that I’m bashing, it’s the hyprocrisy of some Christians.
I think heterosexual marriage should be forbidden in the US constitution.
They are demanding state recognition of their heterosexual relationships. As a member of the state (and a straight guy myself!), I don’t think straights deserves special recognition because they choose to be straight.
CF, no time to log in to Blogger to comment, but glad to see the blog is up and running! I remember when Awbrey suggested in one his columns that science should serve theological goals! And he was SERIOUS!
Amazing, I can’t remember when I “choose” to be staright. I remember at the age of 5 how much I liked boys.My gay nephew can remememeber when he was 5 how much he liked boys, too.
I mean “straight”.
Damoon,
I don’t think anyone wakes up one day and says I’m going to be gay anymore than someone wakes up and says I’m going to be a serial killer.
It is the sumation of many choices in your life effected by your environment and what not that ultimately leads you down whatever path you are.
I don’t think it is one choice but many made over time.
“Growing up in the Catholic Church, I saw so much hyprocrisy that I developed a bad taste for organized religion. Life is about what and who we are and how we impact other’s lives.”
Damoon, I think I’ve found my twin sister. Well said!
“I don’t believe in organized religion,” is what I used to say to get rid of the JW’s at my door. Now I just very nicely tell them to please give their literature to someone who will benefit, because in my house, it will go in the trash. Said with kindess and a smile. It’s either that or meet them at the door wearing nothing but a smile. :)
No Nathan, sexuality is not influenced by environment, it is predisposed.RD, I always felt spiritual, not religious. I think the Church rules are more for those who don’t understand the difference between right or wrong and have to rely on someone else to guide them. I grew up knowing people who would never dream of eating meat on Friday or missing Mass on Sunday, but they didn’t think a thing about vicious gossip, child abuse, or calling black people niggers. I guess it really affected me, because the one thing I can’t tolerate is a hypocrite.
Damoon,
There is no solid scientific proof for it being predisposed.
Nathan,There is far more hard scientific evidence for homosexuality (and heterosexuality, for that matter) being congenital than there is for it being a matter of “choice.” But even if it were a “choice,” it would be their choice to make, not yours, and not your church’s! They’ve done you no harm, yet the attitude your church promotes gives permission to it’s followers to harm gay people in some of the most viciously brutal ways possible, and then brag about “doing god’s work.”
Jed,
Which church of mine allows gay people to be harmed?
I am curious to know.
Nathan,You know, the ones that call homosexuality an “abomination” and then try to hide behind that “we hate the sin but love the sinner” bullshit.
One major problem to address with blogs, especially if you are utilizing a preset blog template supplied by one of the major blog platforms, is internal PageRank transfer. Blog PageRanks are heavily skewed to the home page. Many of the blog templates are not written with strong internal linkage. Because of that weakness, many internal pages in the archives, do not possess strong PageRanks.www.johnbeck.tv/tax-foreclosures.html