Sen. John Warner, R-Va. (see ABC News photo), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, vowed Sunday to hold hearings on the killing of Iraqi civilians last November in Haditha. The public needs to learn more about what happened and allegations that some Marines shot two dozens civilians, including women and children. Rep. Jack Murtha, D-Pa., told ABC that the incident was "worse than Abu Ghraib" prison abuse, in part because the military apparently didn’t start its investigation until Time magazine reported the killings in March. There is a separate military probe into whether the Marines and their superiors filed false reports to try to cover up the incident.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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81 Comments
Hmmm . . . isn’t this what got John Kerry branded a “traitor” when he testified that murdering civilians was occurring in Vietnam?
Of course it happened then and it’s happening now. That’s pretty much what war is.
What I’ve always wondered is why is it a crime to shoot civilians one by one with a rifle and it’s not a crime to massacre them by the hundreds and thousands with bombing raids.
As Howard Zinn points out: “kill one person, it’s murder–kill millions, it’s foreign policy.”
Bush is running around the country telling Americans that our dead soldiers died protecting our “freedom.” What “freedom” was being threatened? Besides the Jews freedom to commit murder against Palestinians and not be held accountable for it.
Bush is a piece of work, besides being a piece of shit.
The Jews want the American army to keep on killing the Arabs in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Is that what Americans want?
Or just the Jews?
Not just Kerry LH - Murtha. The Bushbots hate anyone who points out the truth.
“Of course it happened then and it’s happening now. That’s pretty much what war is.”
Funny how those who have never been in harm’s way become experts.
Life is cheap in a war.
Ah yes, what a memorial day blog!
Lets post this about our men and women on the one day set aside to honor them.
An investigation is being done. Lets save the murder charges till it’s done.
None of you were there, none of you know what has happened.
Sheesh…
This saddens and disgusts me. I fought and killed in the first gulf war but I never gunned down unarmed civilians like some cowardly, dishonorable israeli! There are plenty of scum that need killin’ but they mainly reside in DC and tel aviv. Ed, you keep on speaking the truth!
I understand that our military is infested with illegal immigrants and lowlife minority gangbangers so that might also explain this atrocity. In any event, it only gets worse from here.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Ian Santiago,
Yeah, La Raza Blanco NEVER commits atrocities, much less genocide. (Snicker!)
Having said that, I fear you’re right: it could get much worse. And if we attack Iran, we’ll have 150,000 hostages in Iraq.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have a second half to watch (Heat vs. Pistons).
Yikes, this does not sound good at all. If this turns out to be the equivilent of My Lai then any hope to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people will be gone.
Photos Indicate Civilians Slain Execution-StyleBy Tony Perry and Julian E. BarnesThe Los Angeles Times
Saturday 27 May 2006
An official involved in an investigation of Camp Pendleton Marines’ actions in an Iraqi town cites “a total breakdown in morality.”Washington - Photographs taken by a Marine intelligence team have convinced investigators that a Marine unit killed as many as 24 unarmed Iraqis, some of them “execution-style,” in the insurgent stronghold of Haditha after a roadside bomb killed an American in November, officials close to the investigation said Friday.
The pictures are said to show wounds to the upper bodies of the victims, who included several women and six children. Some were shot in the head and some in the back, congressional and defense officials said.
One government official said the pictures showed that infantry Marines from Camp Pendleton “suffered a total breakdown in morality and leadership, with tragic results.”
The case may be the most serious incident of alleged war crimes in Iraq by US troops. Marine officers have long been worried that Iraq’s deadly insurgency could prompt such a reaction by combat teams.
An investigation by an Army general into the Nov. 19 incident is to be delivered soon to the top operational commander in Iraq. A separate criminal investigation is also underway and could lead to charges ranging from dereliction of duty to murder.
Both investigations are centered on a dozen Marines from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division. The battalion was on its third deployment to Iraq when the killings occurred.
Most of the fatal shots appear to have been fired by only a few of the Marines, possibly a four-man “fire team” led by a sergeant, said officials with knowledge of the investigation, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The same sergeant is suspected of filing a false report downplaying the number of Iraqis killed, saying they were killed by an insurgent’s bomb and that Marines entered the Iraqis’ homes in search of gunmen firing at them. All aspects of his account are contradicted by pictures, statements by Marines to investigators and an inspection of the houses involved, officials said.http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/052706A.shtml
V.L.R.B!!!
I wonder if we would call such actions “terrorism”?
BH,
We have just adopted the tactics of the israeli defence forces. Didn’t some coconut equate the war on islamo-facsism as being akin to “breaking a few eggs to make an omelete”?
V.L.R.B!!!
Absolutely this is an appropriate consideration on Memorial day.
My first reaction is to say this matter should be fully investigated, the offending Marines tried and perhaps executed.
But I TRY not to be reactionary.
The reason this is a good post on Memorial day is that we owe our servicepeople something more than the remembrance their death. We owe them our honest and best efforts that we commit them to peril judiciously. And in this war, we have not.
This war employs BY FAR the greatest number of Guard and Reservist forces in history. Too there is the matter of not just initial but 3rd and 4th deployments. Add also the continually evolving reasons for and open ended nature of this war. Further add the failure to capture the villain bin Laden. Mix in also rumblings of more campaigns in Iran.
Take all that; none of which is the province of those who serve but rather those who deploy them. Put yourself in that place if you can even imagine it. Then let one of their buddies get blown up. I know I’d lash out in some way. You are dishonest or have no heart if you can say you would not.
The individuals responsible for this must be held accountable of course. But look at mission creep, mission ? , and mission “accomplished” and tell me the REAL responsibility for this lies with those who do and die.
No the responsibility for this atrocity lies with an irresponsible commander. Landing on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier and serving plastic turkeys did not make him aware of what it is the troops he badly misuses face. If there is “music” to be faced I say that HE should face it.
Im willing to bet O’reilly, Hannity, and Rush will say the Time report is hurting our troops, and that the Time hates America.
I actually think this is good that this in the court of public opinion because it shows how much of a mental breakdown our serviceman are going through.
I knew BUSH was going to ruin this country back when he stole the election in 2000.
Ive had enough, and the country has had enough. We need to get out. FUCK the Chaos it might bring. Were fighting so oppossing sides can still fight thier centuries old war.
If the Repubs hold onto congress in Nov. were DOOMED!! Well have nothing but what we are having now. Send the Pigs Home and lets get some real leadership in this country.
Im so pissed Im Ranting.
You are doing fine GaryC. “Ranting” in the face of THIS administration in not only justified, it is damned necessary!
Call me crazy but isnt killing people and blowing shit up what the military does?
Sorry to say GaryC. But the Republicans will still hold power in both houses of Congress after this election.
Joe Williams,
So, are you predicting an October Surprise to shore up the Repukes’ currently abysmal prospects for keeping the House?
How could Iraqis be “Terrorists” and Americans not be “Terrorists?
Dingus:
“Call me crazy but isnt killing people and blowing shit up what the military does?”
Yes, Dingus, you’re right, But somebody is supposed to have done something wrong first.
{ Besides being a part of the appetite for Zionist-Jews in Israel }.
Statitically Democrats don’t have a chance unless they themselves come out with an October surprise, not the other way around.
Good Luck!
Well then If the Repugs, still retain power, than I will serioulsy start buying into voter manipulation and fraud.
If people knew what was best for them, they would vote the Repugs out.
If you look back Dems have done more for the majority than the Repubs could ever dream of.
I don’t know just who did what in this incident, but I do know what should be done now.
1. Politicians, on BOTH sides, knock off the posturing and shut up. That simply makes doing what has to be done more difficult, and serves politicians interests only.
2. Get an investigation started; make it thorough and complete (now underway).
3. Prosecute to the fullest all of those responsible, including any commanders who ordered/endorsed/covered up such atrocities.
This is not about whether we should be in Iraq, no matter where you may stand on that. NO CAUSE, no matter how just it may be, justifies an intentional massacre of non-combatants. Period.
GMC - how can they carry out an investigation if they all “SHUT UP” as you want? Don’t they need to be asking questions etc?
Meanwhile …
Coalition in Iraq continues to dwindle
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/breaking_news/14699367.htm
I don’t think anyone wants to be associated with this mess.
We give a bunch of kids guns, brainwash them and teach them to kill, and we’re surprised that they kill people? If you’re in a combat situation long enough, there are only 2 sides, us and them. Get off the “naughty old Marines” bs and ask yourself what makes a bunch of Marines do a thing like that? What level of stress are we talking here?I think it would be interesting to know how many tours of duty these guys have pulled in Iraq.These boys went over the edge. We need to figure out why.
And. as usual, the higher-ups will get a pass.
Ben -
I’d like to see the POLITICIANS - on BOTH sides - shut up. Let the investigation, ran by the usual and proper authorities, run its course. Does the Senate need to do an investigation? NO. Military investigators and prosecutors, if the politicians would simply get out of the way, will be harder on those responsible than anyone. Marines do not want those responsible, if they are Marines, to stain their service.
Murtha, Warner, etc. are only seeking to make political hay out of what should be a criminal investigation and potential prosecution. I do not want to absolve the higher-ups; on the contrary, as I believe I noted, ALL those responsible should be prosecuted to the fullest, including commanders.
This isn’t about Iraqi policy in general. It’s about this act, in this place. And political posturing on both sides gets in the way.
So, let those who are alleged to be involved investigate themselves. Sorry, i think there needs to be an INDEPENDENT investigation. Anything less will be suspect.
“do not target their commanding officers”
“Iraq Probe Focuses on Marines in ConvoyBy THOMAS WATKINS
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) - Pentagon investigations into the shooting deaths of Iraqi civilians are focused on about a dozen enlisted Marines and do not target their commanding officers, the lawyer for one of the officers said Tuesday.
The investigations of up to two dozen killings and whether Marines covered them up are focused on the troops who were in a four-vehicle convoy hit by a roadside bomb last Nov. 19 in the western Iraqi city of Haditha, attorney Paul Hackett said. “
As usual…
One alleged incident takes place and it is touted as an example of all the evil and wrong in the military and war.
This thread is full of little more than speculation, overreaction, and exagerations.
Yeah, just one little incident of revenge killings of twenty some people . . . one little incident of wiping out several families and only sparing the little kids cause they were hiding under beds and dead bodies . . . picky, picky, picky.
Lefthook,
It is bad if it is true. If it is true they should be punished.
What it is not is an indicator of the military in general or our policies or actions in general.
It is not “THE” example of how Bush is so awful for sending troops to battle…
Ben,
If the higher-ups had nothing to do with it why shouldn’t they get a pass?
Nathan - the cover-up required coordination. Also, it is the chain of command that is responsible for the actions of the troops.
Yes Ben, we know.
In your little world, anything that happens the chain of command should be held responsible.
If we followed your logic we would have no officers left because they would all be in the brig.
I have served for over 8 years now in the Marine Corps.
There are things which indeed the command is and should be held responsible for.
The stupid actions of a few are not it.
That is why an INVESTIGATION is needed. In your tiny world everything is nice and simple and military officers do no wrong. In my big real world we know better.
Ben,
Have you read my comments here? I said do the investigation and save the convicting additudes here for then.
another “isolated” event:
U.S. troops kill pregnant woman in IraqKIM GAMELAssociated PressBAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women - one of them about to give birth - when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in a city north of Baghdad, Iraqi officials and relatives said Wednesday.
Nabiha Nisaif Jassim, 35, was being raced to the maternity hospital in Samarra by her brother when the shooting occurred Tuesday.
Nathan - I don’t know about your support of an INDEPENDANT investigation; I know that GMC has opposed having one above.
Accidents happen in war Ben.
What is the date on that anyhow?
today
Bush has turned The United States into a marauding band of murdering thugs and we are causing the violence in Iraq.
Iraqis are killing the Iraqi turncoats who throw-in with the United States.
IDF razes toilets of Palestinian cave dwellers in West Bank
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/721882.html
They cut off their water supplies as well. Typical apartheid actions by the undemocratic ruling government.
“US sends more troops into Iraq”
“Reinforcements arrive as Pentagon report shows insurgency is at two-year high.”
http://csmonitor.com/2006/0531/dailyUpdate.html?s=mesduBush is insane and needs to be removed from office.
and more …
Afghanistan Wants U.S. Troops ProsecutedBy AMIR SHAH
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Afghanistan’s parliament has approved a motion calling for the government to prosecute the U.S. soldiers responsible for a deadly road crash that sparked the worst riots in Kabul in years, officials said Wednesday.
The “War on “Terrorism”What is Mr. Bush warring against?He says he’s conducting a “War on “terrorism,” but what is “terrorism?” Is it the violence of men flying airplanes into buildings in retaliation for years of murdering their people? Is it a man defending his home from Zionists who are destroying entire Palestinian villages and come with bulldozers to murder him and his family?Mr. Bush defies the American people in continuing to murder Iraqis, 3 years after invading that country, based on lies, but under the cloak of fighting the “war on Terrorism.” First in was to destroy their WMD, now it’s back to his old standby; fighting the “War on Terrorism.”Meanwhile the Iraqis are fighting the invading hordes of Americans and those “bought-off Iraqis who have thrown-in with them. Bush now says he’s fighting “terrorists” and if he stops, as the American People want him to, he says; “The Terrorists will have won.”What kind of nonsense is this?Mr. Bush says he wants Iraq to be stable before he leaves, but as long as he keeps bombing and shooting the Iraqis, how could they ever get stable? Or want to?Mr. Bush says he wants the Iraqi People to have an elected democratic government, but when he told the Palestinians to elect one, they did, but now he won’t recognize it or allow them to receive donations to feed their People { check it out, it’s for real }.Judges aren’t going to “buy” his “War on Terrorism” as his excuse for violating international law and committing daily war-crimes. Mr. Bush can’t even treat prisoners of war according to the Geneva Conventions and turns prisons into horrible medieval torture chambers. Mr. Bush even has his soldiers shoot the wounded.The whole civilized world considers Mr. Bush to be little more than dangerous laughingstock, while he has bragged that he doesn’t read newspapers { I don’t believe I’d have told that }.If Mr. Bush doesn’t know what the so-called “War on Terrorism” is all about, or for that matter, who or what a “terrorist” happens to be, then who does? Maybe it’s the wrong name?Perhaps Mr. Bush needs to reconsider that maybe the “War on Terrorism” is not good, but really a very very bad idea, and start listening to the American People?If not, then seek help.
Brian:
“I don’t know about your support of an INDEPENDANT investigation; I know that GMC has opposed having one above.”
You mis-state my position, at least slightly, or perhaps I was not clear. Yes, I do have confidence in the JAG and investigative arm of the Marine Corps. being able to do a thorough investigation. Want to call in an “independent” investigator? Fine. Any suggestions who?
Anybody but those clowns in Congress. I have very little faith in the Senate’s ability to accomplish anything except produce more hot air. Politicians aren’t investigators, they are politicians. Full of sound and fury, generally signifying nothing. At least let’s get the facts before the blowhards weigh in.
As I recall, a military “investigation” into the blowing up of a civilian airliner INSIDE another country exonerated those responsible; claiming that a jumbo jet and a fighter jet were indistinguishable. They further ignored the fact that the airliner was INSIDE that country’s airspace, on a regularly scheduled flight, in constant radio contact with traffic control, slowly climbing out of a civilian airport, and that the US ship had invaded into that country’s teritorial waters.
I’d sure like to be able to investigate myself when charged with an offense.
“At least let’s get the facts … ” HOW?
These poor young people. They enlisted to get marketable skills and/or college educations. Goddamit they get incensed to see their compatriots blown up. So the retaliate, and get out of control. The corrective isn’t to imprison or execute them. It is to get our young people out of a war that is shaping up as “Vietnam II”, a war run by greed-blinded morally-corrupt “leaders” who have no compunction about killing and crippling not only young Americans, but many more Middle-Easterners. This war can have no true American heroes. Because their mission is immoral.
Why don’t you tell us all the facts of that incident with Iran Ben?
You are only highlighting the pieces of information which would point to our being wrong and not the entire context.
What else happened? What else was going on?
Do you think the US ship attacked a civilian airliner with Malice or was it a mistake or negligence.
What exactly are you trying to say about the situation. You seem to love to bring it up.
All I know is that the US ship deliberately went into Iranian territorial waters in violation of international law. I know that the ship then sat just offshore near the civilian airport and monitored the airport, presumably including radio communications. The civilian airliner was on a regularly scheduled route which ship personnel knew. The radio frequency was not coded or scrambled; it was open to listening. The ship then “mistakenly” blew up the jumbo jet, killing all aboard. The claim was that a jumbo jet looks just like an F-15 and that a slow, climbing jet looks just like a supersonic diving jet.
My point in bringing it up is that we are now looking to the same people who ‘investigated’ that to ‘investigate’ this.
I do not know if it was malice or simply gross criminal negligence. I DO know that there was never an independent investigation nor were those responsible extradited to face trial.
If that is all you know, then why not do a little research about the situation?
You seem to be just fine bringing parts of the picture here to further your attacks on the US.
I can assure you there is more to the story, which you do not tell.
Research how? I don’t have subpoena power to get the needed files. You know that.
If there is so much more to the story then please enlighten us. Especially as to why we were helping Saddam.
By the way, just what points do you deny?
It is called context Ben.
You say the US was violating Iranian territorial waters.
Why would they be doing that?
Tt was because they were engaged in battle with 3 iranian gun boats which had attacked one of their survailence helicoptors.
You say the US shot down a civilian ariliner?
What was the context of that shooting?
The airliner was operating out of an airfield which is shared with the Iranian military which operated their F-14’s from that base too.
Yes we fired on an aricraft which was headed towards one of our ships in battle. The aircraft was warned and did not respond.
Why would we fire on an aircraft before it attacked us?
It was because the rules of engagement had been changed to prevent another incident like the one which happened to the USS stark.
You see Ben? When you give the whole story it isn’t as simple to just say that the US shot down a civilian plane in Iranian territory.
Context Ben.
nathan - one thing you fail to see is that Iraqis and others already KNOW what is being done to their people. It is only in the US that we tend not to. These actions cause irreparable harm to our country as the survivors vow revenge against us for these killings.
“”May God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here,” Jassim’s brother told the AP. “People are shocked and fed up with the Americans. People in Samarra are very angry with the Americans not only because of Haditha case but because the Americans kill people randomly, especially recently.”"
These words are from the brother of the pregnant woman killed in what you dismiss as “Accidents happen in war”. Of course, if he seeks to avenge his sister’s and niece/nephew’s deaths we will condemn him as being the terrorist. I suspect he considers those who gunned down his pregnant sister as being terrorist.
No, Nathan, it is not anti-American to want our country to hold the high moral ground. It IS anti-American to not care when we take the low road.
USS Stark - like the Liberty - attacked by our ALLY!
As for the supposed attack on our craft that has never been verified. What we had been doing was to carry out military actions in support of Saddam’s war against Iran.
The gun boats were there, it is not clear that they attacked out aircraft. It IS known that there were also inside Iranian waters.
Also no evidence that the jumbo jet was warned; however there are tapes of its communications with air traffic control on BOTH sides of the Straights of Hormuz. The Vincennes had access to those communications that were NOT in code.
So all of a sudden you seem to know more about the situation after all!
Nothing that I didn’t say to begin with - the downing of the jumbo jet was still unjustified and should be thoroughly investigated. Those responsible should be brought to justice. That has never happened. That is why I want a full investigation of these current situations - and NOT by the people involved!
It was investigated Ben, just not by some international kangaroo court.
Reperations were even paid to the family members some 8 years later.
It was a mistake. They happen in war Ben.
What more do you think should be done?
I suppose if you want to call the captain and members of the ship liars, because they claim to have tried to contact the aircraft several times.
I call their testimony proof of what happened.
Do you have proof that they are liars?
Are you saying that the accidental shooting of the pregnant lady was our taking the low moral road?
It was an accident Ben.
Now I suppose you think that the brother is justified in taking his revenge?
This is your typical posting style Ben.
You take an incident out of context to try to make the American military look bad…
You make claims about us taking the low moral road…
You make claims about the military investigations being suspect? Why?
There are independent bodies in the military who insepct these things.
Why should we think they are suspect Ben? Who should be running the investigation?
Why do you always seem to presume guilt of our military?
Anything they do or say is suspect to you and not proof.
nathan - I always want investigations by entities separate from that being investigated. Thus we need a civilian review board for police for example.
I am not presuming guilt. Why do you deny the possibility of guilt?
Tell me this Nathan - if you had a pregnant sister and I gunned her down how would YOU react? Might you not use words similar to those he used?
Yea, investigated “not by some international kangaroo court” - investigated by their buddies.
Interesting that you blindly accept 100% of what they say but you happily call other veterans like Kerry and Murtha liars.
That is why I want a full open Senate investigation.
O, YES BEN, This is just what we need, a Senate Hearing. Since when have they come back with an honest answer? Gosh Ben, I thought the trash man was smarter than that.
And who would you suggest Rightie?
Ben,
I have been part of the process, I have seen how things work.
The military is not some giant conspiracy comunity protecting each others backs like you think it is.
It is not the facts I question which you bring up it is the way you do it.
You constanly highlight the mistakes of our military for what purpoose? It is not to call for investigation.
I will take the word of our Military personal over that of the Iranians any day of the week Ben.
I believe what the people on that ship say and there is not proof otherwise.
Your calling for an investigation by someone else is one in futility. There is no reason to think it should be done other than you think so.
You imply that there is guilt to be found and covered up when there is not.
Unless I am mistaken…please let me know.
Explain to me why you constantly highlight the accidents and mishaps of the military and say thing like this:
“It IS anti-American to not care when we take the low road.”
The way you present this information is not one of true concern for a truthful investigation, it is brought with a condesending additude of how bad we are.
You imply that there is guilt to be found and covered up when there is not.
How do we know that - by faith? That is why we need to investigate - so that we will know. If the truth hurts then so be it.
Nathan - the air traffic controllers on the other side of Hormuz (NOT Iranians) also said that the jumbo jet was in open communication thoughout it’s ill-fated flight. Not just the Iranians.
Ben,
And that implicates the Americans how?
How many different operating frequencies are there Ben? Which ones did the military try to use and which ones were the airtraffic controllers using?
Facts Ben, Facts, and context.
Things you lack when you present your information.
Just like with the Red Cross?
The military were fully aware of the frequencies in use by standard civilian flights. Facts, Nathan, facts. And context - the military knew the frequencies. They had full access. On the other hand, it is unlikely the civilian airliner pilot had access to the classified frequencies our military might use. So, he had no way to know what our ship was doing - our ship DID have a way to know what he was doing.
I am sure it was an accident - gross negligence IS still an accident. However, there has never been an investigation other than by those directly involved in the incident itself.
That is why I want an investigation by the Senate of the Haditha massacre.
Massacre?
It appears as if you have already determined the guilt of those involved after all.
Ben they tried using the IFF frequincies and others.
They did not use the civilian one because they thought the aircraft was a hostile one.
Context…context…
Today, there are rumblings that another atrocity may have been committed by US troops in March. Just rumblings, sorry no link.
Ahh but atrocities breed more enemies. And you get to blame the folks who follow orders. So the goal of making the war perpetual and not holding the makers of the war accountable is achieved.
JR,
Did you have a purpose with this post?
You bring information here which you claim to not know the validity of and then procede to make presumptions and allegations.
What is your purpose?
My purpose is the same as ever.
Supporting the troops and holding the “leader” who badly uses them accountable.
IF the Haditha incident is not isolated, if there is a pattern developing of troops stressed to the breaking point, I call it wise to err on the side of DEMANDING continued justification and accountability from those who deploy those men.
Nathan?
Supporting the pResident is in the matter of opinion your perogative. In the matter of your service it is your duty.
It is MY duty as an American to hold your commander accountable for the conflicts he commits you and other servicemen to. I should think that even as you carry out your duty you would be not just accomodating but honestly thankful for that.
There is another thing to consider here beyond the damage to winning hearts and minds abroad.
If atrocity as a result of combat stress IS occurring, we have to think of the futures of those perpetrating it. These guys are gonna come home. They are going to have to TRY and live normal lives. Once you’ve gone “past the line” it gets easier to do again.
In the Haditha incident, there are already servicemen whose families have voiced their concerns about their sons who had to clean up the mess.
The rumblings I mentioned yesterday would seemed to have been correct as there are now 4 instances of atrocities being investigated.
JR,
There are over probably thousands and thousands of missions which have not only taken place and are going to take place in Iraq.
[sarcasm]Yep, I would say 4 examples is plenty to jump to conclusions about the entirity of our military…[sarcasm]
context context …
Just why did they not think that a jumbo jet flying out of a civilian airport, slowly climbing, very SUBsonic might be a civilian aircraft? So, because they pre-judged they never gave the civilians a chance and killed them all.
Just like Haditha … Ishaqi … My Lai …
And nobody will really be brought to justice. They never are.
context … context … the US ship knew it was in Iranian waters … was just offshore from a civilian airport … knew or should have known that a flight was scheduled … and made the decision to assume that a slow lumbering jumbo jet full of people was ‘hostile’
Sigh……..
Nathan I am not attacking the military.
I am attacking the mission.