The release of “The Da Vinci Code” movie has revived speculation that Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., is associated with the secretive religious group Opus Dei, whose members play the heavies in the story. A Rolling Stone profile of Brownback early this year had explored apparent connections. But spokesman Brian Hart told The Hill newspaper: “Sen. Brownback is not affiliated with Opus Dei in any way. (He) is not and has never been a member of Opus Dei.” Nor is Brownback’s office talking about his views on the movie or plans to see it.
Not much wiggle room in that denial. But isn’t the first rule of membership in a secret society not to acknowledge being a member?
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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52 Comments
How coy you are Rhonda.
Instead of speaking in your editorial code like you do, why don’t the editors just grow some balls and tell us what they really think?
What’s the mater nathan, can’t figure it out for yourself? You’re so fasicinated will balls you miss the obvious.
But he did convert to Catholisim just a few years ago from being an Evangelical and before that, he was a Methodist.
Opus Dei, contrary to what the book says, is a harmless Catholic organization. Google it.
So, Rhonda, where’s the story? Another in the list of ridiculous hit pieces coming from someone who doesn’t have a clue.
J M Walker,
Um, ‘harmless’ isn’t the adjective I would use. Here’s a snippet from Wikipedia:
“Since its foundation Opus Dei has been subjected to criticism and opposition from both inside and outside the Roman Catholic Church. The Jesuits were among its most vehement early critics. Opus Dei’s opponents point to its secrecy, its clandestine financial dealings, its ultraconservatism, its support for the extreme right-wing in politics, and its cult-like recruitment regime. It is also accused of elitism, power-seeking, and anti-women policies.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_dei
And here’s a story from NPR where a number of women claimed to have been forced into domestic servitude by Opus Dei.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4576620
Opus Dei grew up in the climate of Spanish fascism, and seems to have learned a number of lessons that it retains to this day.
My objections to Opus Dei have little do with the mythos promoted in “The Da Vinci Code.” They have everything to do with theocracy and fascism–things that, one fears, Brownback doesn’t object too strenuously enough.
Ooops–should be ‘object to strenuously enough.’
Man..he is caught in a no win situation. He has said it is not true. Some people claim he is not objecting strenuously enough..and if he does, then the claim will be that he ‘doth protest too much’.
One insinuation, and I can see the attack dogs circling…
No, I do not support/defend Brownback, but this is a totally ridiculous thread. A fictional movie develops into an attack.
*sigh*
Yellowback is a juedeo-masonic, vatican II sham artist, nothing more!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
He doesn’t need to be a “member” to be a fellow traveller–
keeping women “in their place,” supporting ultra right-wing positions, tacit backing of fascism and secret fund-raising . . . hell, that describes most of the Republican party these days.
That’s quite a path from Mthodist to Evangelical to Catholic. Next we may hear he’s chosen Atheism.
Seriously (yes, that was a joke above), Dan Brown did not portray all of Opus Dei as “bad guys.” Former members of the group have said that some use the methods described in DVC, but they aren’t the norm, nor are they expected of all members. Personal choice. (I can’t believe I’m standing up for this organization. LOL)
The “bad guys” who devised the plot in DVC were higher-up members in Opus Dei and acted on their own. I think Silas was there only to show how far to the extreme some can go in their devotion and faith.
Angels & Demons, Brown’s book prior to DVC and which introduced the character of Robert Langdon, is also going to be made into a movie. (That’s a yippee! here.) It involves the Illuminati and discuss both that group and their relationship with Masons. It’s definitely worth reading. Just keep in mind that he has taken facts and woven them into a story of fiction to use them for his purpose, just as he did with DVC.
BTW, I just got back from hammering walleye and northern pike in North Ontario.
Now I’m refreshed and ready to kick conservative ass with a vengenance.
Bring ‘em on . . .
lh/pl/galahad,
You are a one legged man in any ass kicking contest. Your hysterical leftist rants are amusing though.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
How’s the Peroynne’s disease working out for you, assh*le?
Sometimes there IS justice in the world . . .
lh/pl/galahad,
What are you talking about, coconut? Were you smoking some of that strong Canadian weed over the past week?
V.L.R.B!!!
Must be all those good WHITE genes working for you.
You want to start a flame war, jerk?
You got it . . .
Heh, yup, I’d deny it too . . . although it’s possible that even though you HAVE the condition, you don’t know what it’s called.
Google your e-mail address and see what you find.
Now . . . aren’t you proud you use your real name?Dumbass . . .
pl/lh/galahad,
If you were talking about “Peyronie’s” disease then I do not have that affliction. Of course, I am sure that YOU are well aquainted with male genitalia.
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!!
BTW, before Ian can change his e-mail address, here it is saved for posterity:
soxfan67@SAFe-mail.net
google:
soxfan67 Peyronie’s
I’m sure that’s just SOME OTHER “soxfan67″
Just like all the “soxfan67″s on the poker sites etc . . .
lh/pl/galahad,
Yes, I am sure that I am the ONLY person born in New Englad in 1967 that was a fan of the Boston Red Sox! Oy Vey!!!!!
V.L.R.B!!!
Okay, Ian, you stick to that story . . .
pl/lh/galahad,
Were you this hysterical when clinton was in office? lmrfosao
V.L.R.B!!!
Ooh, good one, Ian . . . you win again, drat you!
lh/pl/glahad,
I do(did) play on line opoker at two sites but the handle “soxfan67″ was already taken so I playe(ed)under a different handle.
Viva la Leftist Coconuts!!!
Nice, a racist epithet.
It probably doesn’t bother you that the Nazis were “white” and Einstein was Jewish.
C’mon . . . let’s hear you cock-and-bullshit from “Skin-Heads R Us” about how Einstein STOLE all his ideas.
Yeah . . . I guess that’s why Princeton gave him the full-professorship for life and he won the Nobel Prize.
It was all a JEWISH CONSPIRACY!!!
And you have the unmitigated gall to call me “hysterical.”
Arguing with Ian is like shooting fish . . . no, fish are too hard . . . like shooting TURDS in a barrel.
Actually. Nazi’s were leftist socialist.
“No, I do not support/defend Brownback, but this is a totally ridiculous thread. A fictional movie develops into an attack.” -Raptor
Very good point raptor about it being a FICTIONAL movie. Now how can we get the morons at the church to realize that?
Born in Boston in 1967? I was in the bleachers at Fenway cheering them on!
CF,Good grief, if I believed everything I read about all political or religious groups, I would believe that: Republicans want to save/kill everybody; Democrats have great/communist ideas; the Catholic church helps/ignors the poor . . . yadda, yadda, yadda. Opus Dei is a secret organization much the same as many other organizations are secret. I seriously doubt the “tales” of women and forced servitude, just as I have no doubt that the organization is ultra conservative “in religious matters”.
There are many in the Catholic church who do not like the direction the church has taken with regards to the Mass, the Sacraments, and many other facets of church matters. They would like to see them returned to tradition. By tradition, I don’t mean the inquisition, but as the church was at the turn of the twentieth century.
Their “ultra-conservative” label has nothing to do with ultra-conservative politics, but is a strict religious code.
The whole thing about Opus Dei in the DaVinci Code was made up by Dan Brown, and if you are one of those who think Opus Dei in fact resembles anything in the book, I am very disappointed in your logic, and would have to place you with the rest of the idiots who are freaking out over a piece of fiction. I would like to think that is unnecessary.
There are ultra-conservative Jews. They are religious, not political. There are over 400,000 religions, and branches of religions: http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#MainList
IMHO, this whole Opua Dei blog is a bad joke posted by someone who knows nothing about it: A BAD HIT PIECE.
You mean the Masons didn’t hide the map to the National Treasure on the back of the Declaration of Indpendence?
Oh Wait! Wrong piece of fiction…
Oh, for heaven’s sake, Joe, would you knock it off!
Their NAME was the “National Socialists” (actually they absorbed the Socialists Worker’s party in the early days).
But they quickly renounced their socialist leanings when Hitler brought the big corporations on board, just like Mussolini. Mussolini in fact called fascism “corporatism–the blending of gov’t with powerful corporate interests.”
Would you please stop spouting nonsense and get a clue?
Furthermore, if the Nazis were “socialist,” why was their early claim to fame stopping the communists?
Joe, socialism may be bad and you may hate it, but that doesn’t give you the right to make shit up about it.
Socialist? Like government sponsorship of business? Airline subsidies? Arenas?
Ben, that’s not socialism–that’s . . . uh . . . good for the economy!
Giving poor kids gov’t funded medical care is socialism–we hate that–it leads to lazy, selfish people that think the gov’t owes them a living, or at least shouldn’t just LET THEM DIE, like in hurricane Katrina.
If those old folks hooked to tubes in nursing homes had a Ford Expedition out in the parking lot like every real American, they could have just driven out. It’s not our fault they’re poor.
Now . . . giving 7 million dollars to the huge multi-national corporation of Gander Mountain, THAT’S not socialism or welfare . . . that’s an investment incentive.
Get it straight, will ya, Ben?
Joe Williams,
That’s easily one of the dumbest things anyone has said here in a long time. ‘National Socialism’ was fascism–that’s RIGHT-WING fascism. The ’socialism’ label in German ‘National Socialism’ had nothing to do with collective ownership of the means of production. If you’re right, Joe Williams, then, as LeftHook points out, the battle of Stalingrad makes no sense: why would the Fascist Left fight the Communist Left? Nice word salad, there, Joe Williams.
I eagerly await your bizarro world attempt to redefine the ideological categories of modernity in order to prove that you’re right.
J M Walker,
I haven’t seen or read “The Da Vinci Code.” It doesn’t bear on my critique at all.
The links between Opus Dei and Spanish fascism are well-known, and well-reflected in the elitism and authoritarianism of Opus Dei. Here’s a 1958 letter from the founder of Opus Dei, Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer, to Franco, congratulating him on the union of church and state in fascist Spain.
http://www.odan.org/escriva_to_franco.htm
The ‘conservatism’ of Opus Dei is political, not merely a matter of their interpretation of matters theological and ecclesiastical. Their agenda and methods are suspect and quite well-documented, thank you. Moreover, their reactionary revisioning of the Catholic mass and other aspects of Catholicism isn’t merely some hearkening back to a perceived past, but is an aggressive attempt to fashion an activist ethos that has direct access to secular power.
As for your link, I don’t see how it refutes, in any way, the claims I’ve made here. ‘Conservative’ among Jews is, indeed, a theological designation. But in the case of Opus Dei, it is undeniable that their theological ‘conservatism’ (again, I think the term ‘reactionary’ is more appropriate) is wedded to a ‘conservative’ right-wing, theocratic political agenda.
Opus Dei has been on my radar for some time, and they are anything but innocuous. I think you need to rethink your position, J M Walker.
On reflection, Joe Williams’ gaffe is really quite revealing. There’s no place in his world view for Right-Wing Fascism. None. Joe Williams’ binary, Manichean world view requires that one side be the embodiment of all evil, and the other the embodiment of all that is good. Thereby, the Left takes the blame for the crimes of the Right.
There’s something else at work here as well: denial. As in, ‘fascism can’t happen here, and if it does, it’s the Leftists’ fault!’
Given the culture of surveillance and the nationalist religion of military worship and identification with blood and soil, if I were Joe Williams, I’d want to be dishing off responsibility for American fascism to someone else, too.
Joe is becoming an absolute cartoon!
Ummm Joe? Hitler was largely supported from behind the scenes by the moguls in German industry. You know, sort of like happened with bush. Anyway they found out they could not handle Hitler as they thought they could. Do you imagine they fronted him with socialism on their mind??
You have also told us Joe, that the failings of the Mexican government is due to the fact IT is leftist! I didn’t think you could get any farther from reality than with that one but then you go and prove me wrong here!
Do you check under your bed for leftists Joe?
I must admit to being underinformed as to Opus Dei. I will have to read the links posted and some of my own research. I would say as someone else did, if it is no big deal why the hush hush?
CF,I studied Opus Dei while in high school, over 40 years ago, and have been studying with their organization since. What you are reading is mainly bs, to put it mildly. If you want, I could provide links to sites claiming clinton is an alien, dogs are more intelligent than people, and, as I said, yadda, yadda, yadda. I have no cause to rethink my position, because I know my position to be one of knowing who and what Opus Dei is and stands for. You, on the other hand, might wish to read something other than tinfoil hat sites.
What you are reading is morons trying to make a buck by causing disconcern about a group they know nothing about.As I said earlier: Idiots.
JR,There are loads of “secret societies” that are hush hush. My position is, who cares? Most, if not all, have very little, if any, influence on everyday life. The only ones I worry about are the ones associated with the american government. Opus Dei is not one of them.
Ian, cheap shot at the Masons upthread. More proof you don’t know what you’re talking about. There’s nothing inheriently Jewish about the Masons.
XXX,
It was not a “cheap shot”, it was the truth.
8 – JEWISH INFLUENCE ON FREEMASONRY
“Beginning with this chapter we will get into an in-depth discussion of FREEMASONRY and the “Hidden Power” which makes it operate and successful.
Much has been said about the Jewish, or maybe it would be more accurate to say the Zionist, interests which influence Freemasonry. Few members of the lower orders know the significance of this, or its importance to them, This is especially true if they are Christians.
There is no doubt that the Zionist question MUST be linked with the MASONIC question. At present, as in the past, Zionist world leaders, and men in high positions with the Masonic organization, have worked “hand in glove” for a universal world revolution, which will bring in the One-World Church and a One-World Government. Many Masonic Lodges are exclusively Jewish, as are the B’nai B’rith Lodges, the mother of the infamous and very dangerous Anti-Defamation League, which is an unregistered agent of a foreign government (Israeli) which has been allowed by our government to operate unhindered on American soil. Although this Jewish organization is totally illegal, such is the strength of both the Masonic and Zionist Lobby in Washington, D.C., that the Government refuses to do anything to curb their power or control their operations on American soil, often at the expense of American citizens.
Wherever you look, you will find Freemasonry upholding and defending Zionist interests, even to the detriment of the safety of this country. This in itself should give you a good idea of the entwining interests of the two which can be seen in the seventy U.S. Senators who are
——————————————————————————–
Page 80Zionist controlled and vote a “straight Zionist ticket” when the interests of Zionism come to the fore. These men in Washington, who have taken an oath to defend this country and its Constitution from all enemies, both foreign and domestic, will vote for Israeli interests, even when they are contrary to the well being of this country. For all intents and purposes, these men are TRAITORS. in the Constitution, ARTICLE III, Section 3, gives a definition of TREASON, which is so clear that even a Fifth Grader can understand it. It says: “Treason shall consist only in levying war against them (the US.) adhering to their enemies; giving them aid and comfort.” If what has been done for the Israelis in recent years, has not been “giving aid and comfort to our enemies,” then I fail to understand the meaning of the English language.
For all intents and purposes, the A.D.L. has become an unofficial part of the U.S. Justice Department, giving them periodic biased reports on “terrorism and anti-Semitism” in the U.S., which is “extremely prejudicial” to Christian patriots. Every effort to investigate the power of the A.D.L. has been thwarted by establishment lawyers in high places, almost all of whom are either Jews and/or Masons.
There are two theories regarding the TALMUDIC influence in Freemasonry:
1.- That the Jewish leadership, worldwide, created Masonry in order to corrupt the nations of Christendom and propagate the final world domination for Zionism. In other words, this idea says that Freemasonry is merely a tool of world Jewry.
This idea is supported by an article written by Dr. Isaac M. Wise, a Jew, and published in THE ISRAELITE OF AMERICA, Aug. 3, 1866. He said:
“Masonry is a Jewish institution, whose history, degrees, charges, passwords and explanations are Jewish from end to end.”
——————————————————————————–
Page 81One can easily believe this, if they compare the oaths of Freemasonry with those of the TALMUD, which is the “life blood” of modern Judaism.
2.- Second, is the idea that Freemasonry was a good, sound institution in principle, but that revolutionary agitators, principally Jewish, took advantage of its organization as a secret society and penetrated it little by little until they gained control of it. These Zionists, they say, corrupted Masonry and turned it from its moral and philanthropic aim, to employ it for revolutionary purposes.
In support of this contention, we have the writings of such men as the Jew Bernard Lazare in his book L ‘ANTISEMITISME, in which he states:
“What were the relations between the Jews and the secret societies? That is not easy to elucidate, for we lack reliable evidence . . . they are not necessarily in the head, the soul, the Grand Masters of Masonry. It is certain, however, that there were Jews at the very cradle of Masonry, kabalistic Jews, as some of their rites prove.”
9 – JEWISH INFLUENCE ON MASONRY DEMONSTRATED
BY REASON: These arguments can be summed up as:
a.- Freemasonry is a secret societyb.- Freemasonry is directed by an international minority, and,c. -Freemasonry has sworn implacable hatred for Christianity.These are some of the same characteristics which can be found in international Judaism and which could prove Jewish influence in the Lodge. Jews have more to gain from Freemasonry than anyone else.
——————————————————————————–
Page 82NOTE CAREFULLY:
1.- Many of the external trappings of Freemasonry, such as its ritual, symbols, terminology, legends, etc., are of Jewish origin.2.- The philosophy or religion of esoteric Freemasonry (that understood only by the inner circle) is practically identical to that of the Jewish Cabala.3.- Certain small groups of Jews, of immense influence and wealth, are leading Freemasons, and;4.- A larger group of very influential Jews, pursue the same goals as Freemasonry, using similar means and are in close alliance with them.I believe it would only be honest to say here, that although the Jewish element in Freemasonry is of greatest importance, and that Jewish Masonic leaders often exploit the Lodge for their own nefarious purposes, it is unjust to accuse all Jews, or all Masons of being involved in this scheme for world control. Many of the “Lesser Jews,” the ones which you and I are most apt to rub shoulders with, just as many members of the Masonic Blue Lodge, know very little about this international scheme for world control, and are innocent dupes of a power that is over them. Many of these people are against One-World government, without realizing that their leaders are pushing them into it. These are the ones who must be reached with the truth. We know that it will be next to impossible to reach those in high positions, as their mind is already “set in cement,” but we hope to reach those who have been “hoodwinked” into a society they really know very little about and which many of them would repudiate if they knew the truth.The Jewish people have suffered, are suffering, and will suffer severely in the future, because of wicked, unscrupulous atrocities committed by the ruling Jewish-Masonic junta.”http://www.scripturesforamerica.org/html2/jm0078d.htm
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!!
You mean to tell me that Satan and God are not battling for our souls and keanu reeves is not out there saving us?
The story of Damion is also being told in theaters soon too.
It is called The Omen.
I will be watching that one too so I can see the truth to the anti-christs coming and the impending doom of our world as we know it!
J M Walker,
I notice you were silent as to Escriva’s letter to Franco. Care to show how it DOESN’T evince sypathy with the fascist project?
I take back absolutely NONE of what I said. Not a bit. At the moment, I have some other work to do. But while I’m cooking up some ribs tomorrow, I’m going to do some digging and build a case for the characterization of Opus Dei I offered above.
You are, of course, free to believe what you want to believe. But the fact that all you can offer as counter-evidence are ad hominem slanders doesn’t speak well for the grounding of your position.
Those apostate opus dei coconuts are twisted and evil. we have had some try and infiltrate the SSPX but we ran them off. I wouldn’t at all be suprised if yellowback was a member!
*Rabbi Angel Kreiman:”Many of Josemaria Escriva’s concepts call to mind the Talmudic tradition and reveal his profound knowledge of the Jewish world.”
Rabbi Angel Kreiman contended that Josemaria Escriva’s teachings are strongly rooted in Talmudic traditions about work. Kreiman, who is the international vice president of the World Council of Synagogues, made his remarks in an address to a congress in Rome on Opus Dei’s founder. The rabbi said that he was pleased about the interreligious prayer meeting for peace occurring January 24 in Assisi. Such meetings, he said,
“help us to remember often that we all have the same common father.”
The Rabbi, who is a Cooperator of Opus Dei, said he wanted to demonstrate his special affection for the organization founded by Josemaria Escriva.
“Opus Dei members helped me, right from the beginning of my seminary studies, to persevere in my vocation,” he [Kreiman] said, “and I have also seen them do it with other rabbis, for which I am deeply grateful.”
——————————————————————————–Comment from Webmaster: Escriva and his Opus Dei cult’s love for, and promotion of Talmudic Judaism (documented above from their official website 01/31/02), is the most heinous and reprehensible of practices.It is diametrically opposed to everything a Catholic holds to be holy and dear. To foolishly think otherwise, is to surrender to the enemy and to undeniably sever oneself from Christ’s Mystical Body, putting oneself outside of the Catholic Church. Throughout the centuries, countless Popes have reiterated to the Catholic Faithful, the grave dangers and horrors of the perfidious teachings promulgated by Jews after their willful rejection of Christ.http://www.opusdeialert.com/opus-deis-rabbis.htm
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Ian–
Get psychiatric help.
I’m not kidding.
You are totally delusional.
J M Walker,
Here are some selected passages from Escriva’s “The Way.” I make no claim for an overarching or authoritative interpretation of that work, which would be difficult since it consists of aphorisms rather than a sustained argument. My goal was to find, within a core document of Opus Dei, passages that support the claim that Opus Dei has internal connections to fascist ideology. This wasn’t difficult to accomplish.
Here are some samples. This set pertains to the need for unconditional obedience.
#625 “Your obedience is not worthy of the name unless you are ready to abandon your most flourishing personal work, whenever someone with authority so commands.”
#941 “Obedience, the sure way. Unreserved obedience to whoever is in charge, the way of sanctity. Obedience in your apostolate, the only way: for, in a work of God, the spirit must be to obey or to leave”
#954 “Be particularly respectful to whoever is in charge, whenever he consults you and you have to contradict his opinions. And never contradict him in the presence of those who are subject to him, even if he is in the wrong.”
The figure of the priest, is, of course, THE authority and arbiter of what is and is not correct.
#66 “A Priest — whoever he may be — is always another Christ.”
#67 “Though you well know it, I shall remind you again that a Priest is ‘another Christ’. And that the holy Spirit has said: ‘Nolite tangere Christos meos — do not touch my Christs’”
#74 “To love God and not venerate his Priests… is not possible.”
This, of course, sets up an uncrossable barrier between those who are to lead and those who are to be led.
#61 “When a layman sets himself up as an expert on morals he often goes astray: laymen can only be disciples.”
#619 “Initiative. You must have it in your apostolate, within the terms of your instructions. If it exceeds those limits or if you are in doubt, consult whoever is in charge, without telling anyone else of what you are thinking. Never forget that you are only an agent.”
The ‘Brave New World’ flavor of all this comes through when each person is made an instrument of the whole.
#484 “Be an instrument of gold or steel, or iron or platinum,… big or small, rough or delicate. All are useful; each one serves its own purpose. As in material things: would anyone dare assert that the carpenter’s saw is less useful than the surgeon’s scapel?Your duty is to be an instrument.”
And, finally, the goal is to fuse religious and secular power in one and the same structure. To refuse to do so makes one an enemy not just of Opus Dei, but of the Church and, presumably, of Christ as well.
#526 “If you have not the highest reverence for the priesthood and for the religious state, it is not true that you love God’s Church.”
Bottom line: this reeks of fascism. And if you’re going to hold up your end of the argument, J M Walker, you’re going to have to do better than calling me names on this thread and on others. The fact that you’ve immediately devolved into denouncing any criticism as ‘conspiracy theories’ suggests that you may want to cut back on the Opus Dei Kool-Aid; it seems to be obscuring your ability to construct rational arguments.
If you can, please refute my interpretation and address the arguments that I have advanced. Calling me names just makes you look defensive, like you’re hiding something.
CF,I will stick with what I wrote. I find any and all arguments on this subject as meaningless as discussions on the validity of a fart. But be my guest: continue farting as I do need a good laugh this morning.
You have been known to change your mind J M. Not saying you should here. I will say it is a bit ingenuous to attack C Fs posts without really refuting them with counter information. I find that last of his pretty unsettling. But to be fair, I have an admitted mistrust of religion.
Can you post as to the good this group does? Or can you at least post as to why they should not be suspect and Brownback too?
Wow. Another non-post and then J M Walker calls me another name. I think it would be fair to say Opus Dei has eaten his brain. If we needed a demonstration of what Opus Dei is really about and why it is a legitimate object of concern, we just got it.
Is anybody else as creeped out by this as I am?
JR,I have no intention of attempting to post rebuttal to CF’s posts as I find them to be nothing more than hit pieces on a group, that while practicing in secrecy, as many groups do, have an agenda dealing with the workings of the Catholic church. As such, the hit pieces put out by whoever wants to put them out have zero meaning to me.
Until Opus Dei publicaly supports movements detramental to the people of this earth, regardless of political leanings, I will stick with what I have read and learned in my over 40 years of study of Opus Dei. They are a non-entity in the workings of the world, period.
Want to discuss health care? Animal rights? global warming? Gay marriage? Fine. But this whole Opus Dei thing as laid out by Rhonda as to Brownback is meaningless and nothing more than a hit piece, IMHO.
End of discussion in this thread on my part. Have at it CF, I’ll be out fishing.
I must again confess ignorance as to this group.
One reason I find blogs so important is the exposure they give to topics and ideas and groups that one otherwise never would know of.
When you return from fishing JM, it would be interesting to know if you are a member of Opus Dei or affiliated with it in some way. Forgive an observation, but your posts seem both defensive and of a nature to just not discuss the group further. Sort of like what the thread was about to begin with.
That said, CF HAS done a good job of illustrating why this group and Brownbacks possible membership in it are cause for at least further study. You didn’t do anything to ease that JM. You may rest assured JM I will be open minded as I look into Opus Dei further.
JR,Getting educated on any subject is a good thing. I say go for it, but keep an open mind.
As to my having affiliation with Opus Dei, while that is nobodys business, the answer is no.
And why do I not attempt to refute or get into an argument with CF about this particular matter? The answer is simple, and you alluded to it earlier: I do change my mind on things as I become more aware of all the info out there. But I will also stick to my guns as to what I know to be true and what is false. I don’t recall CF changeing his mind on any subject on this blog, so why argue with him? He is convinced that Opus Dei is some woman hating, fascist organization. I know that to be wrong, ergo, there is no room for argument, or discussion in my opinion. Case closed.
By the way, I caught a 3 3/4 lb Bass on a plastic worm. I let him go after taking his picture and weighing him. Had a ball.