"It was all gubernatorial politics" is how Senate Education Committee Chairwoman Jean Schodorf (in photo), R-Wichita, described the Kansas Senate votes last week on education funding, the Associated Press reported. Most Republicans, not including Schodorf, opposed the House funding bill backed by Gov. Kathleen Sebelius. Instead, they backed (and all the Democrats opposed) an alternative proposal offered by GOP gubernatorial hopeful Sen. Jim Barnett, R-Emporia. Schodorf also noted how Barnett turned the floor debate into a campaign event, complete with oversize charts. "The charts and the graphs and the full-fledged campaign speech — that was a surprise," Schodorf said.
Then again, maybe it shouldn’t have been.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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45 Comments
I guess it couldnt be because both legislative bodies in kansas couldnt get the job done. It couldnt be a failure of leadership in the legislature.
Blaming the gov or her yet to be annointed opponent, coming from the chair of the education committee, sounds like the kansas version of “clinton did it”.
When are we gonna elect a legislature that can “git ‘er done”? When will results be more important than reasons or excuses? When will the students of kansas win?
I guess when the devil ice skates on the ark river.
…and did I mention that both legislative bodies are controlled by the republicans?
IF they can overpower the concealed carry veto, dont tell me they cant get a solution for school finance passed. They can do whatever they collectively have the WILL to do.
I think they would rather fight with the ks supreme court than actually do their job.
Red herring.
It’s like the illegal immigration problem. They can give more money to schools, like they did last year, but we will visit this issue again and again and again.
Even if the Legislature passes the 3 year $660 million dollar one (which is the largest proposed so far), it still won’t be enough.
The question is; How much is enough?
Good point Joe. That is why the Legislature ordered an Audit, to answer that question. Unfortunately, they have ignored the results of that audit.
Heh Ben, it wasnt just an audit they ordered, it was THEIR OWN AUDIT conducted by their own arm. A generally well respected arm, I might add.
That makes um, what… THREE studies of cost that they have rejected or ignored?
Sheesh. What was the comment about goldilocks? This solution is too small, this solution is too large, and this solution just doesnt piss off the court enough.
One thing we all seem to agree on here is that finding a solution that is “juuuussstt right” for everyone, maybe anyone, is not gonna happen anytime soon.
Is this the kansas version of the iraq war? Are the laywers on both sides pouring concrete and setting up long term bases? Are the legies just stalling and hoping some miracle happens to bail them out?
I’ve seen this standoff with the courts, the legies and the schools before, when I lived in Texas. It went on for years and years and student achievements plummeted. Looks like a potential repeat here in ks.
Git ‘er done, dammit! That’s the reason we elected ALL of you!
Just out of curiosity, those of who say more money isn’t needed, then pray tell what is the solution? Will your solution cost more, the same, or less? Please state an actual plan or concept, not just “it should cost less”. A lot of things I purchase I think should cost less, but my wanting it too doesn’t make it so.
How many votes does the governor’s plan have? Oh, doggone, that’s right. She doesn’t have one!Not that you’d know it from reading the newspapers or watching the news in this state!
I’ll half to admit I don’t have the answers either but I do know this much. If the elected official doesn’t get her done than the electees need to saddle a new horse. If the electorate wants change it will have to come from the voting booth.Don’t forget to take your In-combant list with ya to the voting booth so you don’t forget anyone on the Out-combant list!
This is more evidence of why we shouldn’t leave something as important as education in the hands of government.
If it is true that Kansas schools are under funded, and if it is true that this causes children to be educated in a way that is not “suitable,” we should rightly be angry that our leaders are not “doing their job.” (I happen to believe that the problem with our schools is not the lack of money, but that is another issue for another day.)
But this situation has been in place for some years. It seems likely that a child entering school at the time the Montoy lawsuit was filed will have graduated from high school by the time the state fixes the problem with “unsuitable” schools.
It seems to me that the Governor of Kansas was elected as the number one leader of the state of Kansas but she has not put forth an education plan for the past three years. Why is that? Is it politics? Surly she would not play politics with such an important issue or would she?
I don’t understand why everyone seems so willing to notice that she had done nothing. She suggested a plan the first year she was elected and when it was shot down by the legislature. Since then it appears that she has just picked up her toys and has refused to engage in the issue since then. She comes out every once in a while and makes comments that the legislature should really do something but she offers nothing up herself.
So to look at our elected officials we need to look at all of them not just part of them. The house actually put together a plan with the speaker of the house and the minority leader of the house and it was rejected by the house. Instead what was passed was a partial plan that was done behind closed doors with a handful of Johnson County legislators (all republican except one) and a few others from around the state and some democrats from around the state. They put together a plan that was more expensive than the audits and when asked how they would pay for it their answer was “we will worry about that next year”. Sounds like a wonderful plan.
The Governor is a full time position with full time staff and it is shameful that she cannot come up with and education plan to submit to the legislature. So she ignores the education issue but continues to pump up her budget with new and expanded programs with no idea of how they will be paid for. She also ignores the fact that education will need money but she ignores that as she adds programs to assist her during her campaign.
These items are not hard to find if you take a look at the budget she presented the legislature (which is online). It had $75,000 new money for education and that was it. She had a lot of money for new and expanded programs. So where is her priority?
Ruby, I agree on all counts about governor leadership being absent on school finance. If the r’s could possibly field a slate for governor that is devoid of dangerous wingnuts like wiggle waggle, they might defeat our pathetic governor.
Heheh. But you r’s cant even do that, can you? You cant even defeat a so-called liberal democrat like governor leadership! And we should send the r’s back to topeka again… why?
She is a horrible gov, and you all cant defeat her? What’s wrong with THAT picture.
Dont change the subject Ruby, the KANSAS LEGISLATURE, with both houses controlled by REPUBLICANS is constitutionally responsible for school finance.
So…given how horribly governor leadership has performed, why cant YOU REPUBLICANS fix school finance? You have proven you can override a veto, so why not push your own plan through, let her veto it, override the veto, and then go to the voters this November. WHY CANT YOU REPUBLICANS DO THAT!! (I am sure it is the fault of the rural schools, hehehe)
Why dont you just show the gov. up and give us a living example of that famous kansas republican legislative competence? Come on, you have a clear shot right now, let’s see you fire!
I think I know what the problem is here. You are too busy shifting the blame to solve the problem. You keep forgetting that it is the LEGISLATURE that has the responsibility for funding education.
You republicans who control both houses have had three tries to fix school finance since she submitted her last plan. Maybe three strikes and… you should be out so we can elect people who actually do their jobs instead of posturing over dogma.
Dont try to shift the blame here. If anyone is playing politics, look at the republican controlled legislators who worry about EVERYTHING else, even stupid stuff, before tackling the big issue for the session.
Governor leadership could stand on her head and stack bb’s on a windy day, and the REPUBLICAN controlled legislature would still not solve school finance problem. They are really good at complaining, but I dont see them, with their veto override capabilities, doing a g.d. thing to solve the problem.
And since the R’s control both house, and have proven they can override the gov’s veto… what is the real excuse for failure?
Just too much fun to do nothing so you can point the finger at the governor’s office?
Do you think that will be an effective strategy in november? Only if voters are too stupid to live, which in this state may in fact be true.
You republicans could fix this any time you choose to do so.
So why havent you? Let the excuses begin!
Don’t blame the governor, she has no authority to pass any law. Blame those in the House and Senate. Particularly, blame the conservative R’s who refuse to vote for anything that might potentially result in increased taxes (but who, at the same time, claim the State is strapped for cash right after voting for tax cuts in the hundreds of millions). Blame the Johnson county R’s who refuse to vote for anything that doesn’t send significant amounts of funding to Blue Valley and Shawnee Mission, where there is no demonstrable need for significant education funding. Blame the rural KS R’s and D’s who refuse to vote for any plan that doesn’t increase funding for small schools–even though three audits have demonstrated that these schools are actually OVER-funded! Blame the D’s who are only in this fight to grandstand for upcoming elections–the D reaction to this is not to offer any real solution, just to criticize the pathetic solutions offered by the R’s (rightfully so). Contrary to your “facts” Ruby, no plan that has come out of the House or Senate this year has come anywhere near what the audits suggested. One plan was introduced in the House which would have implemented the post audit study in its entirety (introduced by Rep. Watkins during all-night debate on school finance) and it failed 122-0. So if you’re looking for someone to blame–BLAME THEM ALL for ignoring the actual needs of kids who have been neglected for decades now.
KFG,
Yes I am a republican and proud of it. Do I agree with republicans all of the time? No because I can think for myself. I’m very disappointed in the language you use. There is good purpose for it so you may want to reconsider your choice of words.
If you are referring to the veto override that was recently done in Topeka you may want to actually take a look at the votes on that. It was not all republicans that voted yes, there were a lot of democrats that also voted to override the governor. In fact I believe the news reported that the person leading the override was actually a democrat.
If you have a better person in mind to run for governor feel free to get them to do so. It is not as easy as you think. I have worked on several campaigns over the years and I would not do what these people do to get elected. It takes a lot of time away from their jobs and family. Not to mention all of the things they need to be aware of.
I know it is easier to complain than it is to do what it takes to get informed and involved. You might want to take the opportunity to experience it for yourself and get a better idea of the real facts. Remember you can disagree with someone without having a potty mouth.
“potty mouth”?
This is a blog, not a bible study.
“even though three audits have demonstrated that these schools are actually OVER-funded!”
SHOW ME ANY AUDIT THAT SAYS THIS!!!!
SOME rural schools get more per student than SOME more urban districts. I have yet to see ANY AUDIT that says rural schools are UNDER funded.
More of that famous research bloggers do here?
she is a potty mouth.
What potty mouth? What language do you object to? Me saying “g.d.”? Heheh.
Isnt it funny that when they dont like what you say, they attack the language? You better read my post again.
Perhaps you would be happier browsing the Dr. Seuss section. The “research” you do would be most appropriate there.
I guess being a county chair person for 12 years, managing 12 political campaigns (and winning 9), holding a seat on the party state committee, being an officer in a statewide caucus, being an officer in a registered PAC, holding a local precinct seat for a total of 16 years, walking and campaigning out of my district for candidates of both parties, taking vacation to lobby in topeka, hosting fundraisers for candidates, giving WAY too much of my income to candidates and issues, writing letters to the editor, producing TV ads for candidates and running for and WINNING elective office dont count?
Yeah ruby. I am not involved at all.
And you?
OMG, how funny. Mr. inappropriate posting himself calls ME a potty mouth?
I could post links to your greatest hits, but I will spare everyone today.
Now, here is a real nasty word for ya. Put your fingers in your ears and sing lalalalala while I say…
BOOOGER!!!!!!!
I mean I have never seen a study that says rural schools are OVER funded. Freudian slip.
“If you are referring to the veto override that was recently done in Topeka you may want to actually take a look at the votes on that. It was not all republicans that voted yes, there were a lot of democrats that also voted to override the governor.”
So you republicans can put together a coalition on guns, but not on education? You still hold a majority of votes in both houses. Why not put forth a plan and dare the gov to veto it? Or cant you do that either? heheh.
I think that speaks loudly for you and your fellow r’s in Topeka. We see exactly where your priorities are!
And ruby, while you are doing all that extensive research, could you please show me the governor’s constitutional responsiblity for school finance? And then can you look up the LEGISLATURE’S constitutional responsibility for school finance.
I mean, since you are so good at research and I am so bad, maybe you could show me up by posting such research.
Or do you have to call bonbon first?
Maybe ruby and her defenders will be back over their lunch hour. I cant wait for them to do more research. And to list their participation activities.
Still waiting. Bonbon and susan and all the other fundies must not be answering their phones today so no “research” is being done.
Lots of time here. This thread wont disappear for several days.
KFG–Here is one audit that shows that small schools are OVER funded.
LPA Cost Study Analysis, Executive Summary, Page 6 (available on KSDE website): 05-06 small schools received a total of $224,226,407 through the low enrollment weight. By comparison, LPA determined that the actual amount needed through this weight, depending on which study you look at, is $98.9 million, $95.2 million, $91 million, or $107.2 million. Not sure how you define overfunded, but common sense dictates that appropriations of at least $117 million in excess of what is needed based on actual costs equals overfunding. By comparison, the State is roughly $200 million SHORT of what is needed based on actual costs to fund a suitable education for students from low socio-economic bacgrounds.
Augenblick & Myers made the same determination. The entire system is out of whack because too much money is going to rural schools and not enough is going to the urban and mid-sized school districts with high percentages of low income and bilingual students.
The house did pass out an education plan that was over $600 million. It received 64 votes. The senate has not passed out any education plan yet. The Governor said she was willing to sign the house plan.
The last study that was done showed that rural school districts should be funded less. So I would say they said the rural districts were over funded. There was also a study done that showed Kansas schools rank number one in money going to administration and dead last in money going to the classroom. You don’t hear people talk about that because it done give the education folks what they wanted. There was also a survey done by the University of Emporia and paid for by the NEA that showed 60% of Kansans wanted school choice in the form of vouchers. But you don’t hear about that one either because it did not give the education folks what they wanted.
KFG,
I have worked on 43 campaigns and all won. I have helped to raise money for candidates and have been a precinct person for 16 years. I have also served on the state committee as a delegate and attended two national conventions as a delegate. I am glad to see that you are involved. I would think you would be better informed on the issues.
As far as your language I realize that this is not church but I just never thought people needed to use foul language to get their point across. If that is your thing then I guess it is what you have to do. It is not the way to influence people. Information and facts do that along with good conversation.
Also who is bonbon?
The house did pass out an education plan that was over $600 million. It received 64 votes. The senate has not passed out any education plan yet. The Governor said she was willing to sign the house plan.
The last study that was done showed that rural school districts should be funded less. So I would say they said the rural districts were over funded. There was also a study done that showed Kansas schools rank number one in money going to administration and dead last in money going to the classroom. You don’t hear people talk about that because it done give the education folks what they wanted. There was also a survey done by the University of Emporia and paid for by the NEA that showed 60% of Kansans wanted school choice in the form of vouchers. But you don’t hear about that one either because it did not give the education folks what they wanted.
KFG,
I have worked on 43 campaigns and all won. I have helped to raise money for candidates and have been a precinct person for 16 years. I have also served on the state committee as a delegate and attended two national conventions as a delegate. I am glad to see that you are involved. I would think you would be better informed on the issues.
As far as your language I realize that this is not church but I just never thought people needed to use foul language to get their point across. If that is your thing then I guess it is what you have to do. It is not the way to influence people. Information and facts do that along with good conversation.
Also who is bonbon?
Still no answer to this question?
“And ruby, while you are doing all that extensive research, could you please show me the governor’s constitutional responsiblity for school finance? And then can you look up the LEGISLATURE’S constitutional responsibility for school finance.”
ARV, all you show with your figures is that you think rural schools get too much money. I still dont see that as evidence of overfunding. Maybe the rural school have been getting adequate funding, as opposed to the schools getting insufficient funding.
And… for both of you, the last time I checked, this is the SECOND session that urban lawmakers outnumber rural lawmakers, so rally the troops and push it through. What is your excuse for that? The RURAL legislators are bullying them? Heheheh.
You still have no excuses other than to blame the rural schools. You are republican (the majority) and from an urban districts (another majority) and you tell me you cant put together a coalition to fulfull your constitutional responsibility?
Cant… or dont want to? It is so much easier to whine about the rural districts and that mean old governor.
43 campaigns and no losses? I guess that makes you what, damn near perfect? I would think that would make YOU more informed on the issues.
Wanna answer my questions?
I thought republicans were the dont worry be happy party, and only the democrats produced angry people. Especially angry women.
Unlike the Concerned Women of American.
WOW Ruby impressive credentials.
One of the TRUE beleivers. The movers and shakers that keep Kansas mired somewhere around the 19th century.
A cog in the ruinous machine.
Truly, the face of the enemy.
I’ll be interested to see you slither on out of the little issues as to this small beknighted state and out into larger matters on other threads.
OR is your scope any larger than that?
I still call shill.
“One of the TRUE beleivers. The movers and shakers that keep Kansas mired somewhere around the 19th century.”
Funny stuff JR :) You have a way with words that makes me laugh!
Thanks KFG.
They do make it TOO easy.
If they only way have of solving things is just running over people I guess you could get the urban legislators to just run over the rural legislators. But then later when you need their help on something they probably will not be very receptive. There is also the issue of where does the beef in Kansas come from? Where are most of the crops grown? That’s right rural Kansas.
There was an education plan passed with all of the democrats and a handful of republicans so what more do you want?
Apparently you do not like to get into the details of issues. If you want research done then feel free to do some. If you are active in politics then you should have some understanding of issues and be able to do your own research. It is part of conversing with others.
JR,
I think that what government does here in Kansas is very important. So I have no intentions of leaving this state.
Why do you worry about shills? Does the conversation make you nervous?
Ruby?
Do me a favor.
This is an interactive exercise.
Place your hand just above your forehead.
Ready?
Now draw your hand back quickly over your head and say “Whoosh”
Hon? I did not advise you to leave this state. ( a good thing maybe but I didn’t say it)
I was wondering if you planned to post the other threads of the blog. That would be telling as to your agenda here.
“I’ll be interested to see you slither on out of the little issues as to this beknighted state and out into larger matters on other threads”
How you get that I want you to leave the state from that I cannot know.
See I’m trying to figure out just what you are.
Now my take so far is that you are a faithful party minor state functionary.
A shill.
I am not worried about shills. Their conversation does not make me nervous. It bores me and diminishes the blog.
It, and they, just do not belong here.
JR,Why don’t “shills” belong here? Is it because they do not agree with you on issues? (gasp!)
Do us all a favor, and dont make so many spaces in your posts. Scrolling is not something I would think any of us desire doing.
“There was an education plan passed with all of the democrats and a handful of republicans so what more do you want?”
Uh ruby, in terms of details, the house passed a plan. The senate did not. You can read such things, correct?
As of today, we still have no solution to school finance. And we likely will not without a special session.
More of the republican controlled legislature not doing their CONSTITUTIONALLY assigned job. You did do your research on that, right? I mean just because you continue to ignore my questions doesnt mean you dont know the answers. Right?
“Why do you worry about shills?”
Well ruby, it is a little thing called honesty and integrity. Something a church lady republican apologist would appararantly know nothing about.
And BTW, no one here “worries” about shills. We laugh at them and then wait for them to slip up or just flame out.
Which will you be ruby?
Oh, and ruby, would you mind answering my questions?
I know the scroll function exhausts you, so here is a repeat of my unanswered questions:
“”And ruby, while you are doing all that extensive research, could you please show me the governor’s constitutional responsiblity for school finance? And then can you look up the LEGISLATURE’S constitutional responsibility for school finance.”
Or do you just avoid the subject when you know you are wrong?
Or is this just a DETAIL you would rather forget in your haste to excuse both REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED BRANCHES while trying, vainly, to paint the gov with this failure?
What was the name of corkin’s apologist who got a royal butt kicking here? Cindy Luckett, duckett, fu…..?
You are the one who brought up research ruby. Now post some links, some reference, whatever, and stop selling your opinions as facts.
No matter how many times you repeat your opinions, it doesnt make them facts. And talking points are not research.
So this is why the urban legislators cant solve school finance? This is why the REPUBLICANS cant agree on school finance?
“There is also the issue of where does the beef in Kansas come from? Where are most of the crops grown? That’s right rural Kansas.”
OMG, this is a new level of hypocricy and apologist rhetoric.
So… when no one wants to live in rural kansas because there are no decent schools within a two hour drive, you mean you will miss us?
Or just miss the cheap steak?
Let’s see, I think you could just eat cake instead, no?
Nawwwww, hell, just shut everything down west of Salina. According to posters here, that is all that is needed to solve school finance.
PS: JR leaves white space in his posts so kansas education experts, like ruby, can move their index finger under the words. Thank goodness we cant see your lips move as you read.
Kansas… as well educated as you think.
“ARV, all you show with your figures is that you think rural schools get too much money. I still dont see that as evidence of overfunding. Maybe the rural school have been getting adequate funding, as opposed to the schools getting insufficient funding.”
Actually, the figures aren’t mine, they are Post Audit’s based on the “actual” costs of a suitable education in Kansas. Anyway you cut it, that means rural schools are overfunded.
I also think you’ve missed the point of my first post. I don’t think the rurals are the only problem, just part of the problem. To get anything passed through both the House and Senate will require varying groups to come together on a plan. So you have the rural folks all demanding that funding not be cut, and in fact, increased in rural KS. Those folks are also, for the most part, in step with the branch of the R’s who absolutely, under no circumstances, will vote for anything that might potentially lead to increased taxes. This group, unfortunately, includes both rural and urban R’s (many of whom are entrenched in Sedgwick County). There is also a small group who are willing to say, damn the Courts and the Constitution, we can do whatever we want and no one can make us act differently (O’Neal, Journey, Frank Miller, Huelskamp). So that leaves you with the D’s, most of whom haven’t a clue, and a handful of moderate R’s. But most of the moderate R’s have their own personal interests in this fight. For instance, the JoCo block will not vote for anything that doesn’t ultimately lead to them getting a piece of the pie. So to have any chance of passing through both houses, a plan must include an increase in LOB authority–something the rural legislators (Lee for one) abhor.
The sad truth is that collectively they are a bunch of pathetic, unapologetic lawbreakers. (There are a few good guys in the game–Ward Lloyd, Anthony Hensley). Can you imagine any other situation where a Court would say, “We realize you’re violating the Constitution, but we’re going to keep giving you an opportunity to do what’s lawful.” ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Imagine the reaction if courts took that response when faced with other constitutional violations–”We know that slavery is unconstitutional, but we’re going to give you an opportunity to ease into constitutionality–reduce your slave numbers by 10% each year for the next five years.”
Our school funding scheme is unconstitutional and the legislature has known for years how to fix it, but has refused to do so. Instead of focusing on the kids with actual educational needs, the idiots in Topeka (D’s and R’s, rural and urban) instead engage in a dogfight to see who can get the most for their constituents, even though many of their constituents have no demonstrable need for additional funding. Hmmm, sounds like they’re all qualified to draft our federal budget.
I agree with most of what you are saying ARV, but I still dont think rural schools are overfunded. I think they are adequately funded and the urban schools are underfunded. It doesnt matter who’s figures you use, the sentiment is the same.
Consolidation will happen naturally out here as a result of no population. I am all for administrative consolidation all over the state.
I am glad that you dont want to paint rural schools as the problem. Like I said, they can all go away, and you all will still have the school finance problem to solve.
And for the record… I DESPISE Janis Lee. She is a perfect example of what is wrong with western kansas.
She is a horrible political shill who would blow fred if the governor asked her to do so. She only cares about kathleen, certainly not the long term water or education or economic problems of the west.
She is totally in bed with the irrigators and the corn growers. She would sell out all recreational water to keep the governor’s big irrigator buddies, and campaign contributors, happy.
Go to the ks ethics commission website to see who supports janis lee. You will find lots of water pigs… and lots of governor leadership’s campaign contributors.
Come on now, tell us how you really feel about Lee.
Proud to be an equal opportunity offender since 1956 :)
KFG,
We may have actually found something we agree on.