It’s reassuring that President Bush Monday dismissed as “wild speculation” reports in The New Yorker magazine and other media that he is considering a military strike — including the use of nuclear bunker-buster bombs — against Iran to disable its nuclear facilities.
As a negotiating strategy, no doubt President Bush wants to send the Iranian regime the message that he is dead serious about a military strike if other diplomatic options fail. The question is, how serious is he? Military action truly should be a last-ditch option; many military analysts think it would be highly risky and almost certainly invite retaliation in any number of ways.
It’s interesting that reporter Seymour Hersh (in photo) asserts that the administration won’t talk to the Iranians, who are willing. Hersh told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that it’s amazing “not only that the president doesn’t [want to talk to Iran] but there’s no pressure on him from Congress or anybody else.”
What do you think is going on, bloggers? Much ado about nothing? Or is military action against Iran inevitable?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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87 Comments
I think Bush is trying to come up with a distraction to reverse his sliding poll numbers. However, he found that his belligerant saber-rattling actually increased the slide. So, now he wants to try to look like he is not just a shoot-first-ask-questions-later cowboy.
The thing he fails to realize is that if he backs a sovereign nation into a corner that nation is likely to assert its right to have a capability of defense. Remember, Iran has been invaded by a US ally in the not-so-distant past.
If the Zionists who now own Bush ever wanted peace it would have already happened. Not a single day goes by that the Zionists commit more war-crimes and the Damned fool we have sitting in the White House isn’t smart enough to bring all the hostility to an end. The stupid jerk is going to bomb Iran or his handlers who lack a full-deck are going to do it. Bush’s handlers are leading straight into WWlll, and nothing is being done to stop this from happening.
A peace solution is needed but nobody is stepping-up to the plate.
Instead we get more of this: http://www.haaretz.com/
Bush is crazier than Phelps.
And Israel is a whole country of wackos as are those who support the dangerous nonsense.
Bush is a “born-again” Christian crackpot in the same grouping as Pat Robertson and Phelps and just as crazy.
A peaceful solution is so simple but beyond Israeli greed and Bush’s somewhat limited mentality.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/10/hersh.access/index.html
What would the Middle East be like if Israel did not exist?
Rice Seeks Backing for Nuclear Deal for India
“while being allowed to retain or increase the nation’s arsenal of nuclear weapons.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/06/washington/06nuke.html?_r=2&th&emc=th&oref=login&oref=slogin
Bush is not the only nutcase in the administration.
Ed – it would still be a mess.
Ed,
You’re right; Bush is that crazy. And this thing is definitely on the table, and is probably going to happen.
Frankly, it scares me to death. Given the delusions under which this Administration labors, and the lies it’s willing to tell, there isn’t anything I put past them. And if we DO attack Iran, in any fashion, it’s going to be a long way back to Kuwait for our military that is in the field. Iran is definitely pulling the strings for the Shi’ites, and any attack on Iran would most likely lead to an escalation of the attacks on U.S. troops into an all-out civil war. In which case, we’re in deep, deep trouble.
A number of weeks ago I posted about the ‘Spooky’ AC-130 gunships that had been sent to Iraq. At the time, I wasn’t clear whether they were meant to provide cover for a ground assault against Iran, a blanket of fire to use against the massed forces of al-Sadr, or to guard the retreat of ground forces from Iraq. I now think the latter is the most likely possibility.
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/world/story/3216637p-11933174c.html
Oh, and those air to surface missiles Iran announced that it tested last week? If the reports are accurate–and there is reason to question whether they are–then say goodbye to at least one aircraft carrier in the Gulf if we attack Iran.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0604060174apr06,1,5394599.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed
This is scary stuff, folks. Much scarier than the attack on Iraq, because Iran is not a pariah in the Middle East, and has Russia, India, and China as trading partners. Rumsfeld, Bush, Rice, and Cheney are, frankly, delusional and dangerous. I believe the Congress needs to stop this thing before it spins out of control.
Bush has signaled Israel to nuke Iran “do it for us” and Pakistan has nukes and will to be needed to be “taken-out” as it comes to the rescue of Iran, then Rice will have seen to it that India will have enough nukes to “take-out” Pakistan and then the party starts in earnest. Are we having fun yet? { Israeli style }
The thing Bush fails to realize is that he helped establish the radical regime currently in power in Iran. His saber-rattling during their democratic election made it easy for the radical to paint the moderate as a stooge for the US.
Crusade = jihad. That is what Bush has declared.
CF, Bush, that crazy bastard, thinks he’s the messiah. He’s on a mission { reminds me of the “Blues Brothers” movie }.
Has there ever been a crazy president before this one?
This crazy bastard is carrying the “suitcase.”
If Republican fortunes don’t change soon, I expect an attack to get the ‘rally around the flag’ temporary support, enough to buy an election.
Ed,
Even if the state of israel were wiped off the map it would not solve anything. There would still be zionists in Europe, Britain and here in America to continue to cause evil. The zionists have to be hunted down and put on trial. the synagogue of satan must be eradicated forever!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
PS: shrub is nuts
I have no doubt at all that Iran is in the crosshairs.
george bush is an evangelical Christian. As such he believes in Armageddon and the rapture. He has also professed that he thinks God is guiding his Presidency.
I begin to become concerned that he may be actively trying to fulfill bible prophecy.
An aircraft carrier is the least of worries. China, Pakistan, India, and the former SOviet states…..all of them with nuclear wepaons….are unlikely to sit by and watch the balance of petroleum reserves in the middle East fall into American hands.
Oil traders smell it coming.
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/marketquotes/CL.html
Unless a strong, consistent stand is made now with regard to nuclear proliferation, we will soon have an unthinkably dangerous world. Iran with nukes is not a pleasant thought, especially with the wacko currently in charge.
Think the UN is up to the job?
Outlander – then why hasn’t the US pushed for a nuclear-free Middle East? Does not a sovereign state have the sovereign right to defend itself?
A dose of reality shuts-up all the Zionists on this blog. I kinda miss ole “bullet boy.”
If I was Iran, with US troops on one side of me in Afghanistan and on the other side in Iraq, I would be scrambling like HELL to get a nuke out of self preservation.
If bush does invade….or even attack Iraq, there is a potential for a general war in the region. The civil war in Iraq mentioned above is just a start. Consider: Turkish designs on territory in Northern Iraq. India/Pakistan. Too, it would be like throwing dynamite into the already nasty Israel/Palestine thing…..
Think Muslims are pissed off at us now? If we do Iran they will go thermo-nuclear figuratively if not literally.
We’re not going to have an America if we don’t just take it back from Zionist Israel.
Starving the Palestinians is not an American thing to do, that’s just Zionist shit.
Israel is the problem.
My question is, what do we do as a nation if Bush does nuke iran? There is nothing to be gained by doing so. We certainly are not presenting ourselves to the rest of the world as a peace loving nation. Quite the opposite: we are pretenders to the throne of most warlike nation.
That bothers me to no end. Should Bush nuke Iran, I think an immediate shakeup of the whole administration, including impeachment and jail, is in order. Even the discussion of using nukes on another country, without them having nuked us, is insane. Can this administration be that stupid?
Walker, This goes well beyond left, right political squabbling. Zionists are insane and they’re influencing events. AIPAC has dossieres on all members of congress and has them paralyzed to do anything without be labeled anti-Semitic. The Mossad is meticulous about manipulating opinion.
We are in big trouble.
JM – not just stupid – INSANE.
Scary thing is, I know some self-described “Christians” of terry Fox’s church who advocate that as well. “Kill ‘em all because they are Muslims”
And don’t forget Rightie darling Coulter “Invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.”
Isn’t there an old war slogan – “Kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em out”?
Outlander – then why hasn’t the US pushed for a nuclear-free Middle East? Does not a sovereign state have the sovereign right to defend itself?
Ben: Why not indeed?
Your’s is a good point. But since the technology continues to become more and more available, should any country that wants it, and can afford it, join the nuclear club? Using your logic, they should. Unthinkably dangerous.
Yes, unthinkably dangerous. That is why the US should push for a nuke-free zone in ALL the Middle East. I pose a question for you: If you were a leader of a country in the region and your enemy has nukes wouldn’t you want them as a deterrent? And is a hostile military were at your border? A country that has backed a miliatry attack against you in the recent past?
I just heard on NPR that the intelligence we have on Iran is worse that what got us into Iraq! That’s a hell of a comforting thought with Alfred E. Bush at the helm.
Ben: Sure, from their perspective, I’d want them. But from the world’s perspective, we can’t allow unstable societies to have nuclear weapons. Iran’s leader has already stated that they believe that Israel has no right to exist.I do however, like the idea of a nuclear free zone, if Israel’s defense can be assured.
Zionist Israel is the problem and their representatives { AIPAC } in Washington. 100 Zionist working two block from congress are drawing legislation and arm-twisting it through congress.
Visa has even come-out with a credit card with an American flag across it with a Jewish Star right in the middle. Are they feeling confident?
Ben’I totally agree with you about the nuke free middle east. The problem is as you stated, though. And the middle east has so little or no respect for the US now, that pushing something like that through would be impossible. Add that all together, and if we nuke Iran, we will have NO credibility in the middle east, plus we will have China and Russia on our ass.
I cant help but think if middle eastern countries develope nuclear weapons, and decide to us them, there is not much we can do about it. If Bush had done something other than invade Afganistan and Iraq, we might have been able to broker some kind of non-nuclear deal. But every middle eastern country with any problems with the US, either real or percieved, now wants nukes to protect itself from the US. The whole train of events developed since 9/11 have been wrong.
We need to get out now and try to build alliances again, and do it with respect for the muslum nation. And we need to do it while at the same time keeping the US safe from terrorists. If surgical strikes are necessary to thwart future attacks on this country, than do so. But forget the assinine idea of invading another country, let alone nuking it. This “Dr Strangelove” mentality has got to go.
“Visa has even come-out with a credit card with an American flag across it with a Jewish Star right in the middle.”
LINK, Ed, LINK . . . otherwise it’s the ususal bs. And don’t link to some software site that lets you design your own card.
Walker, The Arab world would trade us anything to be rid of Zionist Israel and we could probably negotiate to keep a Jewish homeland under our protection, without having them in charge. The Zionists wouldn’t like it but to hell with them.
That we CAN do.
“if Israel’s defense can be assured.”
Why do you not also include “if Iran’s defense can be assured”?
The US has sponsored the nuclearization of the Middle east.
JM – remember, the US backed Saddam when he attacked Iran. And we shot down a civilian Iarnian airliner. They have good reason to fear our intentions.
Ben, of course your right.
Walker, That Visa card appears as an ad in Haaretz, I’ll just have to catch one as they appear and link to it.
Wait a minute! Who died and left us in charge of the middle east?
Folks, all this talk of a nuclear strike should make us very afraid. As JR said upthread, Bush is an end-timer. I don’t for one minute put it past him to bring on Armageddon. We’re right back to the mindset before Iraq. If they’re even talking about it, they’re seriously considering doing it. Considering the political fortunes of the president lately, I would expect bombing in Iran to start in late summer/early fall.
Keep in mind, the president doesn’t need approval to order a strike against Iran.
Walker, upper right corner.http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/SearchEn.jhtml
Ed,While it is a Visa card, anyone can put anything they want on it. All visa cares about is the number. I have my doubts about Visa sponsoring any particular cards design. There are sites offering software to put any design you want on any credit card. This one, I’m afraid, falls in that catagory. If you decide to put Hitlers picture on a diners club card, does that mean diners club supports Hitler? I don’t think so. The whole thing is meaningless.
Be,I’m not denying anything you are saying. We’ve done really stupid things in the Middle East, mostly in the name of oil. And done them with little or no regard for the Muslim religion. You are correct: we have little or no credibility over there, and the nations have every reason to fear us.
XXX,If you’ve been reading the posts, that is exactly what we have been saying here: get the hell out now, and let the middle east take care of its own problems.
The problem is, what do we do if this meglomaniac DOES drop the bomb? While he may have the authority to drop it, there is NO way the majority of the American people will back him on that decision. If they do, it’s time to start looking for another country. Ben is right: the thought of doing it is insane.
We fought a revolution to establish this country and maybe those G-d Zionists ought to remember that we might have to fight another one to take it back.
The United States doesn’t belong to people who shoot kids for throwing rocks at Tanks.
Walker, I don’t think that all this is about oil. It’s a toss-up between Zionism at crackpot Christianity.
And today the US client state Israel killed a yung Palestinian girl and maimed her siblings by shelling their home in Gaza. Israel declares war on the Palestinian people and the US demands that the Palestinians renounce any action to defend themselves. Israel refuses to recognize Palestine and the US demands that Palestinians recognize Israel.
Ben, Typical Bush sucking-up to Zionist’s disgusting depraved shit. And shame on congress for giving those murdering Zionist pigs a single dime.
Ben, Here’s more:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/704146.html
I find little I could add, for once this blog seems in total agreement. Both Iran and the United States are currently being ran by end of dayers. Both see Armageddon as a good thing and in the recent past said they want to see it in their life time. They would be honored if they played a part and are willing to do their part to see it done. For a moment, do you ever wonder what the people of Iran are thinking?
On another point for Bush to take into account, Iran is NOT Iraq. Their army is not conscripts for the most part. Ready to run as fast as they are ready to fight, people we are on the losing end of this. We might come out of it, but not whole. I heard an old man once say to some younger guys, “You might being able to whip me, but as you walk away from my bruises and bloody body. You will be saying that was the toughest Bas-tard I have ever fought!”.. Well guys we might be able to fight those that will jump in with Iran, but if we win we will never be the same again. either as a country or in the world as we know it.
As has been said more then once, it maybe time to fish or cut bait, control Bush&Co. or loose control of what we have to lose.
God, the mess the next president is going to have to clean up.
Scary thought, isn’t it, Damoon? Though not as scary as what we’re facing right now. I hate waking up to an orange glow. . .
I’m declaring myself as a Feingold supporter for now, because if he wimps out, I don’t see a alternative.
Ben, Who fires artillery shells into a refugee camp full of defenseless destitute men women and children, having already put-up roadblocks to stop delivery of basic food and medicine ?
Why is the United States financing this day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, slaughter?
To satisfy the depravity of Zionist Jews?
While a third of the children of good Jews go to bed hungry every night.
Contact your Senators and Representatives and put a stop to this once and for all.
Kick the spy organisation of AIPAC out of Washington.
Damoon, The Zionist don’t want an American President, they want a dictator.
Ed,Who brainwashes their women and children into strapping explosives to their bodies and blowing themselves up in places filled with women and children?
There are TWO sides to this story, and neither one seemas to be able to come up with a workable solution.
Whether it’s shooting missles into a crowded dwelling, or suicide bombers blowing themselves up in crowded places, they are BOTH wrong. But I doubt your one track mind is able to comprehend that.
Walker, Oh knock-it off. The Zionists have the weapons and the Palestinians use themselves. Throwing cheap insults at me isn’t going to change who the real victims are any more than the made-up meaning of the word “terrorist.”
You need new material and a mental tune-up is you’re going to defend those fucking scumbag Zionists. They’re insane, having difficulty seeing that?
Ed,Hardly cheap and hardly an insult; just the truth. With your Zionist phobia, I would expect you to be over there strapping yourself up, which, in my opinion, would be a positive thing.
As for defending the “scumbag Zionists”, I pointed out the obvious parallel and said nothing in defense of either, but you would have had to both read and understand the post in the first place. You obviously did neither. As I said, your one track mind could not fathom that.
JM – keep in mind that those people being “brainwashed” have spent their entire lives learning from radical settlers and IDF soldiers. They have known nothing but a hostile occupation; Israel sends their most radical population into the Territories.
Terrorist Baruch Goldstein from New York was sponsored by Kach in the US and the Settlers and IDF in Palestine when he carried out his mission of slaughtering dozens praying in a Mosque in occupied Palestine.
Durine the Nazi occupation in Europe “terrorist” techniques were used against Germans in Poland, France, etc. We called them freedom fighters.
Walker, As usual your derailed mind has trouble tracking its way to obvious conclusions. But don’t give-up hope, there’s therapy out there that can help you. Don’t fight it, just get it fixed.
{ Your friends at work }.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2127952,00.html
Ben, Check-out walker’s “buddies.”
{ A whole country of BTKers types }
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2127952,00.html
Britain should demand extradition. And, if Israel continues to refuse to cooperate, they should seek sanctions against the rogue state.
Today on NPR there were comments about the state of despair in villages trapped between the Green Line and the Wall near Jeruselum. Residents are prohibited from going to either palestine or Israel. A psychologist commented on their condition as either internalizing into severe paralyzing depression or “exploding” outward in anger. Interesting word – exploding. I suspect it might be easy to recruit them.
In the news yesterday about the children killed and wounded by Israeli shelling, I wonder how hard it would be to “brainwash” their parents to seek retribution against those who killed and maimed their children.
How many people here would take kindly to seeing their children/grandchildren killed or maimed by artillary fire from an occupation army?
The United States bought those artillery shells those psychopathic Zionist are using to kill children. I guess some Palestinian families, knowing those bastard Zionist will be killing their families use themselves as bombs, figuring as long as they’re going to die at least take some of depraved Zionist with them. Horrible to conclude but I guess you have to be there to understand.
http://www.haaretz.com/
Okay, Ed, let me first lay out the points on which I think we agree.****The state called Israel was basically stolen from the Palestinians in the 40’s.
Israeli leaders have tended to be murderous thugs.
The continuing occupation has been brutal and unjust, not just the senseless slaughter, but also the blockades, checkpoints, bulldozings, etc.
AIPAC is a menace to American democracy and the world.
Desperate acts of violence (e.g. suicide bombings) can get the attention of the powerful when all else fails.
Human beings can only take so much, and will strike back any way they can.***
I nonetheless maintain that (1) more often than not, violence begets violence and little else, particularly if you’re in the weaker position (2) killing innocent people, no matter how compelling the justification, sucks. Morality aside, it’s incredibly bad PR.
Remember how the Palestinian Authority was created? A baby step toward self-rule, but it happened, and not via snipers or suicide bombers. It was the Intifada. Children with stones vs. soldier with guns. Too many people could see the uneasy similarity to Bull Connor’s firehoses. Pres. Bush (the one who was elected) took the mild yet extraordinary step of threatening Israel’s loan guarantees. Arafat renounced terrorism.
A few years later, Arafat and Rabin were signing a peace accord. Yes, it was a raw deal (and I said so at the time).
But you know somethin’? I asked my friend Zeyad (a very articulate guy) what he thought about it. He looked straight at me, expressionless, and said, simply, “Peace.”
Rage – and don’t forget the things that destroyed it. The assasination of Rabin by Israelis. Baruch Goldstein’s terrorist attack supported by Settlers and the IDF. Then Sharon’s visit to a mosque in Palestine to “show them who rules them”
You’ll get no argument from me on that, Ben. We’re arguing over strategy, not goals.
Rage, Sounds you’re right on the mark to me.
The Israelis took property from Palestinians last January in E. Jerusalem and I linked that it wasn’t reported in any US newspaper of media outlet.
Regaining control of our media should be “job one” as an informed public is a must to any free country.
Meanwhile we just keep hammering away.
Ed,If you had an IQ, you might be able to decifer what I wrote, but seeing as how your hatred for anything connected with Israel denies you any insight whatsoever, I consider this case closed.
I’ll do my best. Thanks.
Walker, you don’t get it. You’re Walker, not me. ;-)
(Sorry, Ed, couldn’t resist)
Now for the sad irony. Israel exists; that will not change. Furthermore, both Israel and Palestine need each other. Their economies are inextricably intertwined. Almost a classic “can’t live with you and can’t live without you” situation.
Now for a solution:
1. MUTUAL recognition with boundaries based on the green Line.2. Open borders between Palestine and Jordan/Egypt.3. An economic ‘common market’ throughout the Levant.
These countries bordering the Medeterranean (Lebanon, Syria, Israel, Palestine, Turkey) are in many ways closer to Europe than to other parts of the Middle East. If they could all get past the hate caused by the land theft then they could all benefit.
Here’s a sobering bit of animation regarding the ‘bunker buster.’
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/nuclear-bunker-buster-rnep-animation.html
The White House lunatic with the messiah complex needs to be stopped, somehow. And there’s no Henry Kissinger to tell the Pentagon to disregard any late-night phone calls from the White House. It may be that only the Pentagon has the wherewithal to do the right thing; the Republican Congress obviously doesn’t.
Jeff over at Rigorous Intuition has a must-read post. The real target in an attack on Iran isn’t Iran: it’s China and Russia. Or, rather, to demonstrate to China and Russia the costs of opposing U.S. nuclear hegemony.
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/
Jeff also links to an article from ‘Foreign Affairs’ that argues three things: MAD (mutually assured destruction and deterrence) and detente are over; that U.S. nuclear hegemony is here; and that Russia would be incapable of responding to a first pre-emptive strike against its nukes.
This is the larger game of which the attack on Iran is but a part. Just as the U.S.S.R. was the real audience for the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so China and Russia are the real audience for the upcoming attack on Iran.
Walker, As usual your derailed mind has trouble tracking its way to obvious conclusions. But don’t give-up hope, there’s therapy out there that can help you. Don’t fight it, just get it fixed.
{ Your friends at work }.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2127952,00.html
Isn’t there an old war slogan – “Kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em out”?
YES, THERE IS!
I just happened to be reading an entry on the Cathars yesterday from Wikipedia. The Cathars (from a Greek word for “perfect”) were a heretical medieval Christian sect that borrowed heavily from Gnostics. Their theology was nuts, but their practice was democratic as opposed to the Catholic Church’s authoritarism, so it became very popular for a few centuries.
Also it was used to emphasize political divisions . . . so, guess what happened? The semi-rebels in southern France got crushed.
“In one famous incident in 1209, most of Béziers were slaughtered by the Catholic forces headed by the Papal legate. Arnaud-Amaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, was asked how to distinguish between the Catholic and Cathars, and allegedly answered, ‘Kill them all, God will know his own.’”
Remember how Bush swore up and down how he “hadn’t made up his mind to invade Iraq” about two weeks before the full scale invasion of Iraq.
How he “hadn’t made up his mind” when major airstrikes had already begun?
How he “hadn’t made up his mind” when he and Tony Blair were saying that an invasion would occur EVEN IF SADDAM HUSSEIN LEFT IRAQ.
How he “hadn’t made up his mind” when he was plotting to create an incident that would help justify an invasion?
How he “hadn’t made up his mind” when he sent Colin Powell to repeat the trumped-up lies that BushCo had concocted before the UN a month before the invasion?
Now we’re supposed to trust Bush when he says he “has no plans” to attack IRAN, despite all the reports to the contrary.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame ON US.
Israel is a rogue country where any sort of crime is tolerated, and if it makes money, all the better.
“U.S. court sets $10 million bail for alleged Israeli drug kingpin”By The Associated Press
“Rosenstein, who largely escaped prosecution for his alleged crimes in Israel for years, faces up to 20 years in prison on each of the two counts in his drug indictment. Rosenstein’s Ecstasy network allegedly spanned four continents and used Latin American smugglers to bring the drug into the United States.”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/705173.html—–
Man oh Man. So if in your mind “BUSH LIED” we play the Neville Chambelain act. The fool me once…..line works in other parts of history also. Remember the Iranian hostage situation? No? How about Hezbollah? No? How about the purges and killings and taking a relativly modern Muslim country back to the stone age by Radical Mullahs after the fall of the shah? Appeasers in the country need to relax and drink some decaf. When word gets out that the looney prez of Iran has a nuke, Israel will do the pre-emptive strike for us. These lame conspiracy theories and talking points are getting old. Especially the torture and “Abu-ghrab” ones. The feined outrage. Where was the outrage for the U.S. chopper pilot last week when his burned body was dragged across the fields? Page 3 and 4 of most national papers. Oh, but he was an “American Opressor”. Wouldn’t it be nice for a little consistancy? Show outrage for all human rights abuses and not the selective outrage of the “American Opressors” abuses. Man oh Man
We have a lunatic with his finger on the button. XXX says upthread that the fun starts in late summer or fall. I think he has it called. Bush is a madman. So are all his henchmen in the GOP.
“Where was the outrage for the U.S. chopper pilot last week when his burned body was dragged across the fields?”
Tmac, I feel sorry for you.
I as a radical leftist was indeed angered by that incident–angered that our President would ask patriotic pilots like that soldier to fight and die so that his buddies in Halliburton could get rich.
As for the Shah of Iran, why did we overthrow the democratically elected prime-minister to install him?
Look, many countries and individuals around the world do horrible things–genocide in Darfur, for instance, or Muslim aggression against the Christians of East Timor or the Israelis continuing to steal and occupy Palestinian land.
But those people aren’t my people. Their gov’ts aren’t my government.
Just because other people in other places do bad things is no reason for my gov’t to do bad things too.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, and they never have.
I assume, Tmac, that you hold Americans to a higher standard than you do heathens and infidels, right?
I mean if we’re no better than terrorists, then what are we fighting for?
If we should do it because THEY are doing it, then how are we better than they are?
Bambo, I feel sorry for you also. I feel sorry that you and many others have simplified the entire war to a get rich quick scheme for Bush, Halliburton, & cronies. Never mind any of the many other reasons.I am not defending any torture or atrocities done by our troops. I’m not claiming tit for tat and I do expect more from our troops. I’m just wondering where the media, loudmouths on the left, and others outrage of the terrorists atrocities is. It should at the very minimum be equal to the disdain put on Abu Ghrab and other criticisms. But no, what one incessantly hears from the left is how we torture, the atrocities we do, and it makes headline news day after day feeding the frenzy and then we have a patriots burned body dragged across a field and there is barely a squeak in the media or the left. Or if you do hear it, it is hollow, feigned sympathies wondering how to twist the event into yet another bash. To score points. There it is. If this is not true then believe it this is how it is perceived.So with your point of view, we should let Iran get as many nukes as they want?We have nukes so in fairness we should just look the other way? Bush lied about nukes once so he’s lying again? Who are we to be the worlds police? Right?When you said “Just because other people in other places do bad things is no reason for my gov’t to do bad things too” did you really mean “it is was no reason for my gov’t to do anything”? Lay it on me.
“Bambo, I feel sorry for you also. I feel sorry that you and many others have simplified the entire war to a get rich quick scheme for Bush, Halliburton, & cronies. Never mind any of the many other reasons.”Wha?? I said all of that?”I’m just wondering where the media, loudmouths on the left, and others outrage of the terrorists atrocities is.”Tmac, outrage only stays white for about so long. Fer instance, I’m outraged about the killing of 3,000 of my fellow Americans. But that dispicable act by a bunch of Islamic fanatics is about what I’d expect. What I don’t expect is for Americans to stoop to those same levels of atrocity. That REALLY outrages me. I’ve always held our country to a higher standard.
“But no, what one incessantly hears from the left is how we torture, the atrocities we do”.Damn right you hear it! Because it’s so wrong, so out of character for Americans. We’re good people. But we seem to be lead by a bunch of miscreants. Bush&Co have brought out the worst in a lot of my countrymen.
“we have a patriots burned body dragged across a field and there is barely a squeak in the media or the left.”Careful sonny, I got a hell of a lot more experience with that sort of thing than you do. You righties seem to think that what you’re doing somehow supports the troops. Putting the troops in harm’s way and letting them die is NOT supporting the troops. This is not a just war. You and your ilk put our Army in a hellhole for the flimsiest of reasons. Tmac, if you think there’s any way we can win this short of totally distroying Iraq, you’re a lunatic.
“We have nukes so in fairness we should just look the other way?”Why not? That’s what we’re doing now in the cases of Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea, and many others. But they don’t have much oil. Iran does. Funny how that works.
Tmac,What part of “because the cheneyin’ UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is doing it!” don’t you understand?
Cheneyhead.
JR, The mission from God thing?
The Zionist’s God lives in Hell and his definition of Israel is also his blood-soaked beachhead on Earth. The bloodshed by his innocent victims awaits our justice.
When viewing the cutthroat mindset of the Zionist Jew and his overall obedience to depravity, an accompanying clarity illuminates much more than just the shape of our enemy; we are also privileged to understand his many weaknesses and vulnerabilities which have been offered-up as the key to his complete and well-earned, well-deserved destruction.
The sands of time will eventually forget him, not being worthwhile or anything of value, as the morning sun clears the coming day of the horrors of last-night’s nightmare.
It is long past time for Bush to announce that he is relinquishing his strategy of regime change as the forefront of his foreign policy. Doing this tonight would be soon enough.
Why can’t Iran get the same deal we gave Kadafi? – i.e., give up your nukes, we recognize you. The neocons were trying to spin that Kadafi caved in because we invaded Iraq. That, is utter nonsense. With the help of England, we were able to put together a diplomacy deal that took several years to establish.
There are serious draw-backs to recognizing Iran. This is a government that breaks into Paris apartment to kill dissidents living there. They are not nice guys, but we be not stuck with the false dichotomy that Bushworld is peddling, i.e., Military intervention with Iran, OR a Nuclear Iran. There really are other (diplomatic) alternatives that this adminsitration may be disingenuously espousing.
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/798
“This is a government that breaks into Paris apartment to kill dissidents living there.”
So, Israel does the same thing. And they have killed many “collateral” and subsequently said “oops”
Europe has been in negotiations with Iran for 2 years now and threw their hands up.We are dealing with Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad, a radical lunatic who views us as the great satan.The same guy who claims the WWII holocaust was fiction. Russia and China can’t even talk with this guy. He flat out said that he wants to annihilate Israel. They created and fund Hezbollah, and they train and send insurgents to Iraq. So where is the magic line? Please no hyperbole. When does one say that all diplomatic options have been tried? If all they did was break into apartments in Paris to kill dissidents nobody would say a word.
Get rid of israel and the whole problem goes away.