My biggest fear about concealed carry, based on letters to the editor and Opinion Line calls, is that many proponents seem to think that getting a permit makes them deputized.
A common concealed-carry argument is that the new law will be useful not just for self-defense but for vigilante justice on the streets, with gun toters thwarting crimes they see unfolding in public. “There are many anecdotal cases where individuals with firearms and permits to carry have saved the lives of strangers and law enforcement by happening upon a violent crime or an attempted arrest gone wrong,” state Sen. Phil Journey, R-Haysville, one of the law’s sponsors, told a Lawrence Journal World online audience.
But a caution to would-be Dirty Harrys: The city of Wichita this week forked over $4.75 million to a man who was shot and paralyzed two years ago in a confrontation with police. The incident underscores how even highly trained officers can make tragic errors in split-second decisions.
Local government and taxpayers pay the high costs of occasional mistakes. But private citizens are on their own. If a concealed-carry permit holder plans on playing street enforcer, he’d better make sure he has a big legal fund.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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79 Comments
I am in favor of vigilante street justice. The legislature now needs to pass “stand your ground” legislation to remove the possibility of criminal and civil consequences for us “Dirty Harrys”!
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
Im just guessing but i would assume that the paralyzed victim was Matt Clay who was gunned down while unblucking his seatbelt because he had a unconcealed gun in his car. My question is if thats how the WPD react to unconcealed gun how will they react to CC gun users, shoot first ask questions later? Or what happens if they shoot first and miss like the old town drunk a couple months ago who had a dozen shots fired at him and all missed are you allowed to defend your self against Keystone cop type police work?
Oh, right, Ian! Much as I unapologetically criticize the police, I’m sure a bunch of ignorant yahoos with guns would be so much better!
Empuje esa pistola encima de su asno!
Rage, I am howling. I dont speak much spanish but even I know what that meant!
Why do you assume that those who choose to carry concealed will be “ignorant yahoos”?
Viva La Pistola!!
Personal experience.
“There shall be no INSERTING in that area!”
Cosmo Kramer
Hehehe! You, cheneyer, you can still make me laugh!
Not all are igorant yahoos just the ones who want to play hero charging in guns blazing, without all the facts or the ones that need to carry guns because they are compansating for some innactquisy.
Vive La Raza, Chupa mi Verga Cubanos tontos
I’m doing my best, Pancho! :-)
cheneyer????????????????????
was is los?
I think that there is much fear that anybody who wants to CC can. It’s my understanding that there will be a application, background check and some training involved. Not any idiot can CC, just the qualified idiots. In my social circle a bunch of guys want to apply for CC. All are either ex military or ex cops. I feel no qualms what-so-ever about any of these guys carrying, of course most of ex military were spec ops and could kill you with a paperclip anyway.
I don’t have any cute-sy spanish to insert here – sorry.dos cervesos(sp?)por favor — is the extent of my knowledge
Uhm, right, dude.
For the benefit of OTHERS:”Go Cheney Yourself”–ProudLiberal.
LMAO Ian as in “go cheney yourself”. Rage is teasing you.
I also know what “was is los” means. Heheh.
Additionally, I can swear in five languages! I know, I know, my mother must be so proud of me.
Buy your own beer, Julie! :)
Heheh. Mutual posting.
Not bad for beer but I think for tequila it is “una mas, por favor” until you cant say it anymore.
Then it is “donde esta banyos?”
Followed the next day by “aye, carrumba!”
Not that I would know such things of course…
…of course if you are tom delay, the phrase is “no mas! Por favor, no mas”.
Heheh. How do you say “your goose is cooked” in spanish?
Se cocina su ganso.
Sorry, I only curse in one language, but I do it extremely well.
Back to the original thread.
Great cautionary point, Randy. Something all our John Wayne wannabes really need to think about. If you shoot somebody, you better be ready for the hassle of your life. Get ready for bankrupcy, cause you’ll be broke. There’s only one reason to shoot anybody, and that’s in defense of life, yours and your family. Shoot somebody because they pissed you off? Fugidaboudit! Shoot somebody over property or money? Yer @ss is grass!
As I’ve said before, if you’re going to carry a gun, you better give it serious consideration BEFOREHAND.
Wow. . .the voice of reason.
I suppose I should have said something like that to begin with, but every now and then. . .ya know?
Thanks, X.
I’m going to send you an e-mail, KSFarmgrrl.
You may want in on my new project–you’re going to like it.
Darwin’s Disciple, you’ll be getting a heads-up too.
I live in a town that has CWP.I have been here 12 years and have not heard of 1 problem. Of course our police force is better than the Wichita Barney Fife club so I am sure that makes a difference.If you are stopped in your vehicle, the PO knows, before approching your car that the owner of that vehicle has a CWP. CWP owners are trained for more that a few hours on their responsibility and how to act. We can not have a weapon in schools, federal and state buildings and some hospitals ask that none are carried on to their property. I see no problem..that being said, I do not jump in my car with an UNLOADED shotgun hoping to scare some dirt bag that broke into my car. STUPID! A cop has a Nano second to decide if there is a threat or not. Had the man not ben in the car with an UNLOADED shotgun, and raided his hands…then asked to undo his seatbelt….. he would still be walking. I have had a CWP for 15 years in this state and have never drawn my weapon nor put my self in to a situation that I would have to.
But Randy, the people have spoken! Oh, but you only want that on the issues you support like gambling. Issues like a tax and spend lid and guns….well….that’s different!Whatta joke.
Barney Fife rules
Some of the wannabe TJ Hookers, James Bonds, and Clint Eastwoods,……..and there are more than a few of you ……. of these threads might do very well to consider the words of XXX……and the main idea of this thread.
You might want to think twice about carrying a gun.
If you decide to pull that gun, you better be ready for your life to change.
JR is correct on this issue.(sadly)
I would put it a bit differently however:
If you decide to pull that gun, you better be ready for the other guy to pull his.
PL:”I’m going to send you an e-mail, KSFarmgrrl.
“You may want in on my new project–you’re going to like it.
“Darwin’s Disciple, you’ll be getting a heads-up too”
Looking forward to it. Let me know.
I am in favor of vigilante street justice
And who pray tell, decides just what exactly “vigilante street justice” dictates? What worries me is not the fact that some macho desperados around here carry guns. What worries me is that any of these guys seem to think they can properly fulfill the roles of judge, jury, and executioner! That’s simply too much power for a single man.
Love the Barney jokes…but, on the side of the WPD for a moment instead of being the ‘gang that can’t shoot straight’, is anyone familiar with DoD ammo to kill ratios?
Department of Defense estimates from Vietnam were that each combat soldier expended over 100,000 rounds for every enemy kill.
Not that easy to hit a moving target…
Good grief, do you all have war in the streets down there such that you need to compare shots?
Seriously, people out here (you know, the bill maher poster children) think it is the wild west in wichita, and they are AFRAID to have their kids live there or do their shopping in Wichita.
They think the Carr brothers and BTK are still hiding around every corner. They think now that everyone is armed with handguns. Makes their shotgun racks in their trucks feel sad :( that they cant compete with all the handguns in Wichita.
I just have to laugh because if you have ever done your shopping in Salina…heheheh…. you know why they go to Denver, or KC.
Not that I think Denver is any safer, or KC, or even OKC, but that is the perception in rural parts of Kansas.
So when I see the WPD compared to combat toops in Viet Nam… it does give me pause… to wonder if the hillbillies out here know something I dont!
Kansas… as fearful as you think!
I’ll ignore the pointless non-thread stuff. This appears to be more fear-mongering on the part of the editors. Has this been a issue is those states (the majority of states) who have passed CC? NO.Is there any reason to believe this is likely to be a problem here? NO.
We know full well we are not law enforcement; no one believes we are. XXX is right; if you draw that weapon, your life will change, and not for the better. Think carefully if you want to carry, and if and when you draw. That weapon exists for only one reason: the protection of my life and the life of others. NO OTHER.
If the Kansas experience is similar to other states, less than 5% of those who could carry will. LEO will know on a traffic stop if you are a CC holder; it’s part of the registration information. LEO’s approach every car as if the driver is carrying anyway, as well they should.
Tempest. Teapot. Again.
Do you have to give any warning before firing? I can see where a citizen feels threatened, and pulls his piece, not intending to use it. Then the other person pulls theirs and fires. Who would have justification? I’d say the second person.
As much as I support the new conceal carry law I think it would have been better if the training had been longer than eight hours. There are even occasions where law enforcement makes mistakes with their guns and they have a lot more than eight hours of training.
Hopefully the supporters of this will work with the Attorney General to make sure that the eight hours are very intense training. At least it will be a while before anyone can get a permit so they have time to make sure things are done right.
“I can see where a citizen feels threatened, and pulls his piece, not intending to use it.”
That’s a no-no.1. The experts in the field, and my experience in the classes I’ve taken (LEO training), is that one should not give a warning. That said, DO NOT pull the weapon unless you have already made the decision that you will fire if necessary. You may not have to fire (hopefully you won’t) but drawing the weapon should never be a bluff.
Let’s assume a couple of things in the above scenario: first, that person one is an aggressor, and two, that person two draws his weapon in response to a threat to his person. If that is so, the law in Kansas is that an initial aggressor may not claim self-defense unless he has clearly abandoned the aggression and retreated. In other words, an aggressor is never justified in using force in self-defense.
A major part of any CC class MUST be understanding the law and legal responsibilities and liabilities undertaken when one carries and when the weapon is used. It is not really complex, but it is vital to understand. One may use force ONLY to protect life, not property. You are not a cop.
Frankly, if you can retreat with safety to yourself or others, you should do so. Your first reaction should be flight, if possible, not fight. To do otherwise is foolish.
I’d have favored longer training time too, and required range time to keep skills sharp annually. We’ll have to see the AG’s regs when they come out. If the governor had gotten on board, such a bill could have been passed; Journey and Co. would have welcomed the changes to get the Gov’s signature. but she didn’t, so we have what we have. If done right, 8 hours will do the job, and I’d be willing to bet that those who carry already do the range time anyway.
Give a neocon a gun, and he/she thinks it is their personal responsibility to save the world from the all the degenerates destroying the very fabric of the land. In which case a Barney Fife fund might not be a bad idea.
And of course, any flaws in the bill will be the fault of governor leadership.
I predict you r’s and conservatives (are ya reading susan?, despite your whining, will not defeat her even with the posturing around CC. You would actually have to have viable candidates to do that (are ya reading susan?)
The next four years will likely be either a replay of the last four years, with the legies and the gov fighting for the show of it and the state stagnating… or…..
We will elect a full slate of wingnuts (are ya reading susan?) in both houses of the legislature and Cedar Crest. Which would of course be a replay of bushco and the republican congress. Bolster that culture of corruption and put the kansas taliban in charge.
Either way, Kansas looses. And even though republican voters are CLEARLY the majority of the state, they will try to blame the dems in either case.
Maybe someone should say the incumbents of both parties are all gay.
That would motivate at least 70 percent of kansans to send them home!
…and we say Bill Maher is wrong…
Done, DD.
Did you get it?
PL
If you are not willing to pull the trigger and take the life if necessary, you should not have a permit.You are stupid to point a weapon at anyone unless you are willing to fire. A CWP does not give you the right to scare, bluff or threaten anyone…those who do those things get shot.Any state saying 8 hours traing is okay needs their head examined.In my state, if you point a gun at anyone not armed, Its a crime.period…makes no difference what the reason.Please think before you want a CWP.ThanksRom
Rom, how does a convicted felon and ex-con get a CWP?
GMC70
Thanks for all the thoughtfull informed posts on this subject.
What the fearmongers around here don’t seem to realize or do not wish to acknowledge is that there are people in our state who literally live every day with the risk of death, be it from a violent ex-whatever or from a criminal whom they have testified against or helped put behind bars. Others simply live and/or work in high risk crime areas and wish to be able to protect themselves. Up until this year those folks have had no choice but to live with the threat or become criminals themselves by illegally carrying the means to protect themselves. I know a few of both and this law will change the balance of power for them.
Paranoia will destroy ya Heckler.
Boris Badanov beware! Heckler’s packin’!
Thanks Heckler.
I understand that reasonable people can disagree on this issue and many others. But the small circle of self-described “progressives” who dominate this blog feel the need to demonize, ridicule, and hate anything and anyone who disagree with them, and feel the point of the blog is to score humor points with the “gotcha” line. They aren’t interested in sharing ideas. On the contrary, they’ll simply demonize anyone they disagree with and them pat themselves on the back, telling themselves they, and only they, have a monopoly on truth.
I have no doubt that 2-3 years from now, we’ll wonder why we made such a fuss over this issue. There will be a relative small number of anecdotes of crimes prevented and lives saved by CC holders, a slight but almost unmeasurable shift in the types of crimes, and no incidences of the types of incidents some here fear. No different than the other states with CC.
JR
I’m still curious to know a few things. I’ve asked before and you never answered. Are you the type who fears that you can’t keep your own temper in check, therefore no one else can be trusted to?
What have I said that makes you so distrust me? Is it simply that I disagree with you? Please cite what I’ve said that makes you think I’m some raving paranoid loon.
Give it up Heckler. JR can’t, and therefore won’t attempt to justify his knee-jerk reaction and his rampant paranoia. It is what it is. I’ve asked the same question, no response.
It doesn’t matter, anyway. He feeds on his self-absorbed circle of “progressive” blog-buddies. Anyone who dares to disagree with them must be “stupid,” a “wingnut,” a “neocon,” etc; pick your own label, most ad hominum attacks. Ho Hum.
It’s a side show. Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
ditto GMC70.
hehehe
GMC
I know but I like to pull his chain.
Ah, Heckler’s back! You were (sorta) missed, you know. :)
FYI, I testified against against two guys, one of whom stuck a gun in my face. The other guy has since returned to prison, but the trigger-man lives here in Wichita.
I don’t own a gun.
GMC knows Shakespere…..rah
If this is a sideshow why bother coming?
Where to begin……..
“wingnut”and “stupid” are not words I use much in my own posting. I do use “neo-con” occasionally.I have NOT used them or any other derisive term on XXX who disagrees with me on this issue. He does so with eloquence and in a manner that suggest that there may indeed be some people I would trust to be armed. Even if I do not understand their need to be so.
Heckler? Are you one of those folks you mention upthread? Got a violent x or working in a violent area? Did you testify against some now released criminal? Do you feel in daily peril? Can you tell us of actual people in this scary position? Or was that just a generalization used to cover up the fact that you want to carry a gun real bad.
It is a moot point. You got your law. Why the need to continue to try and justify it? Do I trust you carrying a gun? Frankly no.
I don’t know you personally heckler. I can only go by what you post. In other threads, you strike me as a neocon. And you have been posting this issue for a long time. To you and some, I’m a “fear monger” To me and not a few other people you are a wannabe action hero.It’s perception. And I say again, anyone that passionately wants to carry a gun just as soon as they can, is probably not the best person to be doing it.
GMC
You are better spoken as to this issue. You say a few reasonable things. But I was struck by the fact that it was this issue that brought you to this forum. You don’t post much as to other threads. When you do, you either bash the entire forum at large (see above), or storm off a thread in a huff. Your posts are very well worded. I’m gonna pump some sunshine up your skirt and tell you that I once told KFG that you had the potential to be the best voice for the conservatives on this blog. You are long winded but not boring. Your problem is that in YOUR posts humor eludes you. In others posts it offends you. All that adds up to my being not so concerned you would play hero with a gun. But you might lose your temper with one. Again percepotion, your posts being all I have to go on.By the way Heckler and GMC If you want to prove something on this forum get on over to the thread about bush exposing Valerie plame for political revenge and to steer us into a war. That thread could use your take. It is pretty absent conservatives just now.
Now I spent a whole lot of time typing this. I hope that excuses any perception as my being a knee jerk reactionary.
Vive le France
JR
I’ve never been in those situations I described. I know some of the people who have. They fear for their lives for legitimate reasons. They want to be able to protect themselves. One of them has posted here. He testified before the house hearing on SB418. If you had lived the past few years of his life you would understand. I’ve worked in dangerous areas late at night. It’s what changed my mind about CCW back in 1993. I know a woman who used to work for Sedwick county tracking down people who weren’t paying child support.You talk about pissing people off, she couldnt do her job without making enemies. She wanted a permit to carry in the worst way.
Passionate, you bet, I’m passionate about protecting my life, ever since I realized how easy it is to lose it to some noboby wanting a few bucks for a fix.
I don’t mind folks who disagree with me, I’m disgusted by people who are so cavalier about dismissing the dangers other people face in their everyday lives. People who wish to paint them as “wannabe action heros” or paranoid kooks turn my stomach.
What is a neocon anyway, that word gets thrown around this forum like salt on a Michigan road. I’m not Jewish if thats what you mean,
You still havent answered my other question.
Okay, this is uncomfortably close to revealing my identity, but I just can’t pass this one up. I worked at SRS for a while–in CSE. I still have friends working there.
Care to lecture ME about the dangers of collecting child support, Heckler?
JR
I’ll take some of it back, but not all.
You wrote that I could be a voice for conservatives. I’ll pass on being a voice for anyone except myself. I have no need or desire to “prove” myself to you or anyone else.
I am a conservative, and was one when it was out of style (like when country wasn’t cool). I’d like to defend the current administration, as I am convinced that if an asteroid struck the earth tomorrow, many Democrats would proclaim it to be Bush’s fault. On many issues the administration makes that hard, but the current administration is a better choice than either of the alternatives offered.
But I have no desire post often on every topic. So as I wrote earlier – I’ll post on issues I think I can add something, and ignore others. I frankly don’t care about the Plame matter. Frankly, so much of this blog is the ‘progressive’ circle jerk that it is often pointless posting anyway.
Enjoy.
Rage
I take it from your comment that you dont consider it a sometimes dangerous undertaking?
My friend certainly considered it to be. All kinds of raw emotions overflowing, anger at the ex, anger at the judge, etc.
And I wasnt lecturing, just relating what she told me. She’s a tough woman, not one to be intimidated, but she was followed and harrassed by a subject on several different occasions. Threatening phone calls at home, one occasion a subject even came to her home to confront her.
Yeah, I’ve heard my share of stories myself, and I’ve seen threats made firsthand. Not good. But not that common either.
But the subject of this thread wasn’t CC–it was vigilatism (and if you think people like that can’t get a CC permit, you are terminally naive). And quite frankly, that kind of conduct is why we have laws–and restraining orders–in the first place.
Having seen the dangers faced regularly by custodial parents–and the occasional non-custodial–my view is perhaps a little nuanced. One CSE client (before my time) was cremated by her ex, who worked at a funeral home, because he “wanted her to feel it.”
And in my humble opinion, if it gets to the point where you have to pack heat ALL THE TIME, you should either become a real cop, or get out. It’s not worth it.
JR said:
“I’m gonna pump some sunshine up your skirt and tell you that I once told KFG that you had the potential to be the best voice for the conservatives on this blog.”
For the record…KFG did not agree… heheh.
Rage, thanks for proving that not everyone in peril feels the need to carry a gun. You should live where I do, 20 mi from town, 10 miles from pavement, 3 miles from my nearest neighbor. And I am a loud mouth liberal queer surrounded by rednecks with guns… and chains… and ropes…
I dont own a handgun. I dont live in fear. Danger happens to all of us, but fear is optional.
I’m also gonna quote chris rock here.
Given the James Byrd dragging, the Matthew Shephard murder in Wyoming, the Tim McVeigh Oklahoma City bombing, Eric Rudolph bombings and murders, et al, Chris said:
“I aint afraid of al quaida, I’m afraid of Al Cracker!”
ksfarmgrrl
According to statistics Chris Rock has a lot more to fear from his own ‘brutha’s’ than he has to fear from Al Cracker. A lot more.
I don’t live in fear, I live in reality. And my guess is you are a whole lot safer living around all those rednecks with guns than you would be living around all the enlightened progressive liberals in ANY big city.
So what is it about enlightened, progressive, liberals that scare you so much, Heck?I don’t recall anyone of that discription being involved in the crimes KFG mentioned in her post.
Damoon
Dont forget the Unibomber and all of the acts of terrorism by people from the likes of ELF. They dont get talked about much, I guess because the media doesnt consider leftist wackos dangerous.
My point to KFG was that as much disdain as she seems to have for her Redneck neighbors with guns that she’s much safer living near them than in any major city, much safer than minor cities like Wichita. The part about progressive liberals was simply meant as a gratuitous backhanded slap at your kind, not out of fear, but out of bemusement.
Damoon
The cases KFG listed are aberations, major exceptions to the rule.
Black men have ten times as much to fear from their own ‘brothers’ than they do from ‘whitey’.
Gay men have much more to fear from other gay men having unprotectec sex with them.You doubt me? How many gay men have died from aids passed to them from other gay men? How many gay men have been beaten to death by hatemongering hetero men?
How many Tim McVeighs are there out there? I submit to you that there are far more members of ELF willing to blow people up than there are TM’s, they just arent as effective as he was.
Same with Eric Rudolph. But in his case I would think that a leftist like you might understand a little more, what with folks like you being such accomplished practitioners of moral equivalence.
I don’t fear people like you, I fear what you would do to this country if you ever come to power.
And Heckler throws back the covers of commonly accepted rules of civilization, exposing both a hatred of gays and his own party’s Pro-Life platform.
What you have before you, ladies and gentlemen of the WE Blog, is a troglydyte, not a Criminal.
Do not condemn him to death; rather, engage his ideas to the death.
$0.02
Flike
That would be a great analysis if it werent so wrong. Lefties like to throw out the Mathew Shepard canard as a blanket indictemant of white heterosexual men in general. It’s a cheap shot that is rarely challenged. I merely threw a big wet cold bucket of water on it. It’s called truth, and if truth seems a little rude to you that’s your problem not mine.
Flike
Same goes for the Eric Rudolph business. KFG used the same cheap shot tactic, I used the cold bucket of truth in the face tactic.
Get over it.
Keep digging Heckler. You’ve been on a build up to the self destruction of your own credibility for a long time.
How many people have died because of ELF?How many anti-gay activists have been hunted and killed by gays or anyone else?
Perfect example of a red herring–because AIDS kills a lot gay men and homophobe bigots only kill a few, gay boys DESERVE it.
Another example of reactionary reasoning: all the GOOD things that are going on in Iraq!
Using that reasoning, Saddam wasn’t so bad after he gassed the Kurds because . . . because . . . look at all the GOOD THINGS he’s doing.
Hitler . . . sure he killed all those Jews, but look at all the GOOD things he did.
Hey Heckler?
You are melting down. Think crusaderX here.
Please let me continue to help!
I invited you to the “Leaker in chief thread” where you left to drink Jim Bean and bang your head on the blacktop outside your house.
I got a laugh from that thanks!I guess you did that and then came on back here. Your posts upthread do reflect brain trauma complicated by alcohol. Telling that a post from KFG drew you out.
I invite you to the “News flash: Bush takes a tough question” thread which you seem to have missed.
Funny stuff heckler.
I guess if you think aids is a gay disease, that is telling. Never mind that the fastest growing groups of victims are straight women, particularly black straight women.
Wanna make a comment about that? Or are you just thinking aids really is a gay disease and it is god’s punishment for being queer.
Come on, say it. We know you are thinking it.
Or maybe a curse on black people? Your comments about black on black crime are also telling.
And as for examples, I think the ones I gave are most commonly recognized. But as I have said here before, when guys like heck have no argument, they say “give us examples”. Then when examples are given, they poo poo them as exceptions.
When it comes to proof for guys like heck, “one’s too many and a hundred’s not enough.”
Still havent found a way to do research? To post links? Come on dude, counter my arguments with research, not platitudes. Please, continue to show your true colors.
Cold water? Hardly.
THIS is cold water for people like you heck. I should be posting this under the hypicrit thread, but given heckler’s comments, it is so appropriate here.
http://travisproulx.blogspot.com/2006/04/if-only-we-all-had-republican-dad.html
IOKIYAAR
…and if that link isnt good enough for ya, how about the original story from the local paper?
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0407goddard0407.html
And for those too lazy to read… just another isolated example.
Yavapai County Attorney’s excuse: Hazing Gone Wrong
Read this letter and tell me how insane this response is to this story. Sheila S. Polk, Yavapai County Attorney, sees no sexual motive in the actions of Bennett and Wheeler and blames the media for the attention it’s receiving.
If you review the police reports, you will find a terrible situation that can be summed up as follows: Eighteen junior high age kids went to a week-long camp in Prescott. The two defendants were their junior counselors and in charge of them.
As a form of discipline, the defendants, then 17 and 19, performed a ritual on the campers referred to as “brooming.” Simply and somewhat graphically put, the defendants would use a broom stick or flashlight and push it into the crevice of campers’ buttocks over their clothes.
Sometimes the victims were held and sometimes they were not. There is absolutely no evidence that this was done with a sexual motivation.”
What part of sticking a broom where the sun doesn’t shine is not sexual in nature?
So to her the definition of sexual assault has to do with the fact that the kids were wearing clothes. Doesn’t she know the shame these kids would feel afterwards? You can email her your thoughts about the case, (please be civil) at
County.Attorney.Email@co.yavapai.az.us
You can view the police report there also.
—–
I see this thread heated up in my absence.
I agree, JR, meltdown is in progress. Comparing AIDS with fag-bashing is just revolting, and irrelevant. If Heckler thinks it’s even relevant, I invite him to have unprotected sex with as many prostitutes who will LET him.
My guess is, if he finds even one, he’ll join the HIV community in short order. . .
ksfarmfrrl
Let’s take this to OPen Thread since this is hardly the proper thread for this discussion.
Baloney heck. You are the one who took the thread in this direction. Dont want other posters to read your words here? Tough. You have been outed, heheh.
We can move it, but your words will follow. If this wasnt the place, why did you start bashing the usual suspects?
Al Cracker? Please, continue to inform us of the cracker caucus talking points.
Yeah Rage. Poor little Ryan White, catching that gay disease from a blood transfusion in a hospital.
You do remember Ryan White, dontcha heck? Well known gay activist that he was.
I see heck’s computer still doesnt do research, and neither does heck.
“AIDS is God’s way of punishing homosexuals, schoolchildren, Haitians, and people who get blood transfusions.”
Graffiti in the men’s room at Neff Hall, WSU, 1986.
Gee, I wonder who did that? :)
That would be a great analysis if it werent so wrong.-Heckler
Ok, withdrawn, you are not a troglodyte.
You’re a person who’s less interested in discussion than in being a troll.
ksfarmgrrl
You threw out the Byrd-Shepard-McVeigh-Rudolph BS.
I was going to let it go, Damoon wouldnt.
You find the rest of my response on open thread.
JR
I’m glad I can make your laugh.
” Keep digging Heckler. You’ve been on a build up to the self destruction of your own credibility for a long time.”
I’ve been determined to be un-credible and persona-non-grata(sp) so many times by leftys here I can’t keep track of them, but I sure seem able to stir you folks up.
“I’ve been determined to be un-credible and persona-non-grata(sp) so many times by leftys here I can’t keep track of them.”
Yes, your claims have been mercilessly questioned, but who questioned YOUR personal credibility, or declared you “persona-non-grata,” before now? I’m not even sure the latter has quite occurred (yet).
You got a “bonedig” for either?
I’ve given you endless crap, but I never told you to go away.