One concern about the federal No Child Left Behind Act that is difficult to talk about without appearing elitist is that schools may shift so many resources to helping low-performing students that they will neglect their top students — the future scientists, engineers and other experts we need to compete in the global economy. This may already be happening. According to a recent New York Times article: “In 1998, 25 states reported that 80 to 100 percent of their local school districts provided services to gifted students; last year, there were 22 states reporting that level of services.”
Jane Clarenbach, public relations director of the National Association for Gifted Children, told the Times: “It’s important to help the kids who are struggling, but it’s important to challenge the kids on the other end, too.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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27 Comments
USD 259, via their administrative Nazis, keep pushing up the “grades ahead criteria” so as to limit their having to serve gifted kids. It is my understanding that kids now have to demonstrate being 3 grade levels ahead before they will be considered gifted. It does seem a shame that those kids who are two and one-half grade levels ahead are left to langish.
USD 259 is starting to operate much like a managed care agency when it comes to their resources. Of course, one way that they are different from a managed care organization is that they can be sued. The time when that happens is drawing near, I would bet. So the district cost savings on the backs of our most gifted students and future resources (let us not forget), will soon be reversed, I predict.
I know names, email addresses and examples of the most breath-taking unethical behavior that happens here Du Dah on this subject. I try to stay off of my soap box because it raises my BP unnecessarily.
Erroneously posted this to the wrong thread — this is where this one belongs.
We as parents can’t expect the schools to be the only entity challanging our children (but they are an important part). It is ultimately up to us as parents to make sure that our children are living up to their fullest potential. Be that in school, sports, music, theatre or whatever.
Julie,
Your point would seem obvious.
But, that does not detract from the fact that it is ethically wrong for school districts to short-change some students because they think they can get by with it. Unfortunately, this poor management/resource protecting effort will ultimately cost districts more money in terms of the litigation that will come about. That short-changes all students in public schools.
Because I am opposed to litagation sapping the resources that all of our children need, I have and continue to work within system as a parent volunteer. This is the best ethical course for me. But, I know there is a growing parent advocate movement that will eventually lead to confrontations on policies that are unwise. If this does happen, which I hope it doesn’t, I think I have made my efforts to head this confrontation off by voicing my opinions about this problem.
Julie, I am not quite sure how to take your post. Is it more than stating the obvious?
DD,Unfortunately it is just the obvious. Many parents today just ship their kids off to school and aren’t involved at all.I admire you for volunteering. I wish more parents took an active interest in their kids (and other kids) well being.
I don’t volunteer at school (hubby and I have had too many run-ins with administration when we call them to task on how our son’s schooling is handled) but we are very active in his extra-curricular activites. I think it’s rather sad that a parent doesn’t encourage their children when it inconveniences the parents desires. “sorry son can’t take you to ball practice – a rerun of a stupid show is on”.
Would it be possible to split the classes? I know almost all schools have at least 2 classes for all elementary students. Would it be possible to put the lower performing students in one and the higher performing students in another?
I may be out of my gourd on this but it makes sense to me.Or maybe move to a smaller town where housing isn’t cost prohibitive and the classes are smaller and encourage individual attention.
Phils thread here today suggests that NCLB gives funding and attention to poor performing students at the expense of gifted students.
That is just flat wrong.
Poorer performing students are JUST as neglected by NCLB as gifted students. Only more so.NCLB sets arbitary goals for students basically by age and grade. Then it threatens to de-fund any school that can’t churn out the required number of adequately performing students. So in pursuit of turning out students to meet the mean, teachers teach the means test. Kids who can’t keep up get kicked out; to be marginalized as behavior or special ed. (my son) And kids who would excel are neglected.
No Child Left Behind might better be named “Cookie cutter education” no little mis-shapen cookies……but no big outsized cookies either.
One cost-effective way to help gifted students would be to encourage them to take classes at WSU and/or the CCs while still in high school. I did that in my last 2 years of high school.
Too bad Julie,
You are the kind of parent who needs to volunteer at your kids’ schools. My run-ins with the school — which have been nothing real big — are opportunities to model for my kids how you can work with people you disagree with sometimes. I have been lucky that my schedule allows me to do this.
I agree that schools can’t be everything for everybody. But I certainly question some of the decisions they make and tell them so. I have almost always felt (with few exceptions) that I was at least listened to – any consumer driven business knows the value of doing this.
Ben,
That is a great suggestion and one that I think that 259 will be utilizing more.
My gifted 13 yr old kid is real interested in building a super fast computer to facilitate his undying interest in internet gaming. (I have mixed feelings about that). But I would love to enroll him (and me) in one of BCCC’s classes that I think could help us with this project.
Emory University gave me free access (Atlanta, GA). WSU should do the same.
A funny aside – back when my kid was in high school and people were getting “net nanny” softwars to keep them off the porno sites. “OK dad, I’ll install your software for you. But I won’t give you the password.”
And, knowing him, he would set it to keep ME off the political sites!
Hey, Ben, if I were your dad, I would do the same thing:-)
In the beginning, I thought NCLB waqs a good program. I am now learning that the cost of testing is astronomical. And, coupled with the fact the tests are in many cases wrong, seem to be a waste of time. What the schools are stressing now is testing, and what exactly is learned by teaching testing?
This whole thing, like most, if not all, of Bushes programs is turning into a wasted money sham. Which makes it a perfect platform for Democrats to stand on when they run whoever for President in 2008.Ben brought up an excellent idea for gifted students. What are the ideas for the rest of the students? Ideas, people, lets hear ideas.
Ben,I hear ya. I feel good if my kid is only 10 steps ahead of me in our on-going internet control war.
Ben,I agree the AP (advanced placement) classes are a godsend to those who will take them. I got my college history and english out of the way with those.However I don’t see a lot of parents taking their kids to college classes if it isn’t offered at the normal school. Once again it deals with the parents desires not what’s best for the kids.
I’m going to drift into unPC territory here, in addressing Walker’s question. I think the public schools would be enhanced if they were able to charge for services they have which people would be willing to pay for. That is – at least partially-privatize some of their programs.
To fish for Rainbow Trout in Colorado, like I like to do, I have to buy a license and pay parking/etc-user fees. I would rather do it for free, but I want what they have enough to purchase it. I think the same is true for many parents who have kids in the public schools. If a parent wants more they should be willing to pay for it. I am sure that my kids can get as good an education in the public schools as they could in any private school in town. This is why I send them to public schools.
USD 259 people think I am psychotic when I suggest such things. They are too tied into the old way — let’s raise taxes somehow. Our legislature has shown repeatedly they will not do their job. How am I and my kids served by doing more of the same ineffective stuff? There comes a time when you need to think of new ways. School finance is one and perhaps the best example of this dictum.
JR, you, and especially your kid, have got rights, man. If you have grievances – pursue your alternatives. If I can help in any way, let me know. There are free and inexpensive alternatives.
DD,I think you’re on the right track.
Let the classrooms have the supplies that they need and not have to sell magazine subscriptions just to buy essential classroom supplies.
If a kid wants to participate in sports or theatre or knowledge bowl then have a higher fee and scholorships for those who can’t afford it. Have bake sales, cookie dough/wrapping paper sales. Make ‘em pay to play not pay to learn.
Some good ideas coming out. Pay to play is one of them. Sports teaches kids team work, and leadership skills, but as a necessity in schools already underfunded, it doesn’t make sense to use learning dollars to pay for sports.
Drama, vocal lessons, debate teams, they all should have some stipend attached. Maybe a sliding scale pay formula, but pay nonetheless. It only makes sense, but like DD said, nonPC, so that will probably never fly. Still good ideas, though.
We already pay to play sports in USD259. Kids have to rent their instruments if they don’t have their own. The districts sports budget is one half of 1 percent of the total budget. A big chunk of the overall money goes into special ed., both gifted and lower level learners
“It is my understanding that kids now have to demonstrate being 3 grade levels ahead before they will be considered gifted.”
DD, this is appalling! Long ago, back in 1959, Wichita implemented their first Gifted Program. Teachers chose the students they thought were the brightest, and those students were tested (IQ test, for one), then chosen for the program from that. At least that was my understanding of how it went.
The city was divided into quadrants, and 10 girls and 10 boys were chosen from each quadrant to attend a classroom designated in one school in the quadrant. It started with fourth graders and was an amazing program and a wonderful opportunity. We were guinea pigs, those 80 of us who started in fourth grade. The next year that class moved up into fifth, in the same school building, and added another teacher for the new incoming fourth graders. We rotated between the two teachers, depending on the subject. The next year was the same, moving up to the next grade, adding a teacher, and a new incoming fourth grade. I don’t know how long this lasted or when major changes were made (it was a LONG time ago), but I am sadly disappointed that the Wichita schools dropped the ball on the gifted in our schools. Or maybe it was just education in general that did. Whatever, it’s sad, and that “3 grades” thing is beyond ridiculous.
Yeah, I wouldn’t mind pay to play as much as pay to learn, but we have to be honest that we live in a country that doesn’t believe educating our children is the only thing that schools do. It might be nice if that were true, since it might improve their scores. Pay to participate might unfairly disadvantage poorer students, but it might also make them respect the activities they are taking part in more.I think we should separate the serious special ed (not just kids in a few remedial classes) from regular schools, not because it isn’t important, but then at least we can get a sense of where our money is really going. Of course, I believe we should increase vo-tech. There is no reason for a bunch of kids who hate school to be taking Algebra one more time before they drop out.
Amen, Allie.
I agree with Allie on the Vo-Tech. Not everybody is gonna be a doctor, lawyer, teacher. There needs to be better training for the specialized skills that Vo-Tech teaches. It would at least give some marketable skills to those who don’t go on to college.
Allie,I couldn’t agree with you more. When I was in high school, too many years past to state here, we had excellent shop classes. Shop math, shop tool, lathes, mills, auto shop, drafting skills . . .all there for the student decided to forgo college. And this was a private school. The public schools had way more options for non-college bound students. Most public schools had courses that allowed you to jump into the job market as skilled labor.
Sadly, those times are gone. But with a pay as you go, sliding scale course structure, I think they could be brought back. Scholorships for the needy, and payment for the more affluent. It could work, but it would take people who are capable of thinking outside the box, something not likely to happen in a red state.
agree 100% allie, JM, Julie …
It’s no surprise that the discussion here has degenerated into a, ‘let the rich parents pay more and give the poor parents welfare’.
The government education system is socialist based and over time breaks down like many other socialist programs. The best we can do for education (if the government must fund it) is to let the parents select the schools their children attend. Poor performing schools will change when they have no students, gifted or otherwise.
Although I agree with Ben that schools are, of necessity, socialistic, I do not agree with taxpayers footing the bill for parents to send kids elsewhere if they dont like the home school. I note several parents say they dont have much to do with school due to run ins with the administration. This is how things change, hopefully for the better. I work in school and meet with many parents and never begrudge them their advocacy for their child. Being called a communist, butt****, other names, well, I might begrudge that a bit. Parents need to help or nudge their school to doing better. I wish it wasnt by selling cookies and working at carnivals. IMHO, the small schools in Kansas are only going to exist by becoming a focal point for the community, offering college classes, parenting classes, exercise, etc. with the school building being in use 18 hours a day, not just 8. As for Gifted, the rules are changing to what I believe are much more subjective, help your buddy out system. I think the IQ test and academic performance are mandatory parts, otherwise, your Gifted program will consist of kids who come from upper class parents who value the sound of, “My kids in Gifted”, rather than the value of the Gifted program to the child. Tracked classes according to talent sound good, unless you arent in the highest class. If you were ill, had a bad day on test day, emotionally not there for some reason when classes were decided, you may be in the lower classes all the way through school, based on one measure. As a point, I was in the highest track in the St. Louis schools all the way through HS, even though I was failing several classes. This is because i did great on the Iowa tests. I just barely graduated and only went to college because I was paid to do it and they let me out of the Navy early!!
I am a parent of a child who seems bored with school due to the fact that she has already surpassed the reading and math levels that are being taught in her current class.However, I am not sure that she is 3 grade levels ahead.What choices do I have to consider?I have spoken to the teacher and was told that they have no freedom to teach anything other than what the board has approved. The teacher promised to try and give her some additional work when possible to create some challenge for her, but I’m not sure that ‘optional’ work will be sufficient.