Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., predicted this week that the U.S. House’s “really bad idea” to make felons of undocumented immigrants and those who assist them won’t become law. That’s the good news in Brownback’s crystal ball. The bad news: that lawmakers won’t pass immigration reform anytime soon. “There is a great cultural dispute in the country today, and you’re seeing us reflect it,” he told a group of clergy in Dodge City Tuesday. If Brownback is calling the divisive situation right — and he may be, given the outpouring of raw emotion on both sides in recent weeks — that will be a huge disappointment. Congress’ inaction will only invite more illegal immigrants to come on in while they can.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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46 Comments
How will our useles government be able to determine those of the 20 million illegals who have been here for at least two years? Total deportation is the only solution and let’s deport senator yellowback and the rest of the traitors while we are at it!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Brownback needs to remember who he “represents”, and who elected him. 73% of Kansans polled want illegals criminalized and shipped back to Mexico.
That is a pretty substantial majority–easily enough to vote for someone who WILL carry out the will of the people if Brownback won’t.
We are tired of being used as a free ride for people who’s own country is a mess.
I have to agree with Brownback (and even Bush) on this. As a Native American I could point to all those “wetbacks” who came over in boats like the Mayflower; however their existence here is a reality. So too is the presence of 11 million more of the same.
raptor – didn’t those earlier ones come over because THEIR countries were a mess?
New Bush policy initiative? Pre-emptive annexation and final “commonwealth” (not state) status for those countries who supply the low wage workers we need?
Just make sure to sign up the local dictators and petty despots as “states-rights republicans” to keep everything on an even keel.
Mexico, Thailand, Vietnam, India…you’re on the short list.
“73% of Kansans polled want illegals criminalized and shipped back to Mexico.”
I dont know if that is true or not, but it is uncomfortably close to the vote tally in favor of making hate a part of the constitution in kansas.
It reinforces that immigrants are being made into the new gays. They are the new bloody chickens. Whew, I am so glad the pressure is off of us…
I mean, the wingnuts rolled right through the gays, and now that scapegoating gays doesnt work anymore, they are turning the hate guns on the immigrants, BOTH legal and illegal. Gotta have an enemy to win elections, dontcha know.
Kansas… as bigoted as you think.
I don’t think it is necessarily bigotry to suggest that having an increasing pool of undervalued over exploited labor is a problem.
If we do not address this problem we will not only not solve it we will make it worse. As Rhonda says, while we are dithering about it it is already getting worse.
Brownback only pretends at compassion. What he is really defending is the source of cheap labor. Perish the though that the packing houses might have to pay union scale ever again.
Total deportation now.
JR, I totally agree with you on exploited labor that is used to drive down opportunity for everyone. I hate that illegals are exploited while legal citizens struggle to find a job that pays a living wage. I am opposed to profits made on the backs of the illegals.
I am in favor of enforcing the laws we already have. Making new laws and then refusing to enforce them will not change a damn thing. First we need to show the will to enforce the existing laws. We still havent done that. I am in favor of both employer sanctions and sending back illegals, of all stripes, who are caught.
I dont think we should turn the hunt for illegals into an obsession and a resource drain. Let’s not make the war on immigrants the new war on drugs, since we all know how well THAT worked!
I am not in favor of building a fence or wall along the boarder. It will be a boondoggle that will be ineffective. I am in favor of EFFECTIVE enforcement and security for our boarders, but I have no illusions about what the success rate will be.
Humans are infinately resourceful, just look at how our elected officials treat the campaign finance laws. There is never a law that big money cant get around.
Having said all that, I do not think you are personally a bigot JR. But listen to some of the other people on your side.
There is so much hatred of other cultures. Those who say “they need to learn english” ignore the fact that many LEGAL immigrants use their native language. There are currently so many LEGAL spanish speakers that its usage will not change, even if you round up all the illegals and ship them off.
I would go so far as to say that if you did indeed round up all the illegals and send them back, you would STILL see LEGAL brown faces working in retail and restaurants. You would STILL encounter service people who use english as a second language. You will STILL have trouble communicating with the lawn crew, the maid service, and the order taker at the drive through window.
You would STILL have to listen to mariachi music on the radio, have your kids sit next to brown faces in school, and live next to them and their families in your neighborhoods. There will still be lowriders and gangs and men at day labor sites. These are not solely the provinces of illegals.
So if what some people want is a return to a lilly white culture that only existed in our minds, purge away. It will be like draining the ocean with a teaspoon. It will only create hatred and resentment among the legal residents, and as their political power grows, you may see a big backlash against hatred and bigotry.
I think some people, like JR, are focused on the legal and economic issues of illegal immigration. But MANY people are mostly upset about the cultural changes that hispanics brought to our country.
Sorry, but those cultural shifts are created and supported by LEGAL immigrants too. Even if you deport all the illegals, the birth and populations trends will still show that you better learn spanish if you want to compete for jobs in the future.
Personally, I happen to like mariachi music, the sound of spanish, mexican food, and the sight of brown faces spending money in my community.
Booting out the illegals because they are illegal is one thing. Trying to purge the hispanic culture will be kinda like shutting the barn door after the horses have left the building.
KFG–
Your assumptions are a tad beyond what was stated. The continually increasing ILLEGAL population is the problem here. Many don’t pay taxes; many don’t have insurance, or don’t have drivers licenses and don’t know traffic laws… all of which is costing us dearly.
It has nothing to do with music, food, or anything else. It is an invasion of illegals to this country that can no longer be ignored. Please stick with the facts here, and save the “cultural benefits” argument.
Re-read my post raptor. I am in favor of enforcing the laws we have. I am in favor of deporting illegals. I am not in favor of doing nothing about illegal immigration.
I am, however, in favor of a cold hard look at the truth about us. I am in favor of calling a spade a bloody shovel. Those cultural issues are the elephant in the room that no one dares to speak. And those issues are not going away any time soon, even if you deport every last swingin’ illegal.
To deny the bigotry that exists, to not call out those hiding behind the cultural issues, to ignore and give a pass to the racists among us… all that denial is akin to putting your head in the sand.
I thought you were a raptor, not an ostrich. My bad.
KFG,
Yes there are some on “my side” in this arguement who are motivated by intolerance. But not all bigotry is born of hate. Some of it is made of self preservation. When you start advising folks to learn Spanish, you make me think maybe I should learn to hate.”Look at some of those on your side”
I might ask you to do the same.
There is absolutely no reason for this problem to exist other than it furthers the agendas of two otherwise vasty different and corrupt political factions in this country, while perpetuating a long failed government in another.
The question of real compassion is do we want to help Mexico get better or do we want to let America get worse.
Mexico has the natural wealth and resources to be a nation where it’s natives would be happy to live. But you can’t fix your own house if you are busy building or cleaning someone elses.
Ya know, there are some people, and I am not calling out names here, but there are some people who talk out of both sides of their lyin’ mouths.
They publicly spout the rational economic and legal arguments about immigration, while privately they bitch about the dirty mexicans and their inability to place an order at Wendys without speaking spanish.
Of course, maybe you dont know any people who are oh so politically correct in public, but in private are more racist than Ian.
Maybe those people only live out here… and none live in wichita.
Once again, my bad.
JR, my last post was not meant for you. I wrote it before I read yours. But since you asked :)
“Look at some of those on your side”
I might ask you to do the same.”
JR, what do you think is “my side”?
What part of my post is not your side? I said I support enforcement and deportation where appropriate. I agree that people who hire illegals at low wages are harming everyone. I thought you agreed with those points.
I also said that for MANY PEOPLE, this is indeed a racial and cultural issue. Maybe it isnt for you, but can you honestly say there arent MANY PEOPLE who say those things in private if not in public?
I think that suggesting people learn spanish is an acknowledgement of reality. We can pretend we live in the 1950’s or we can live our lives in reality. We can not undo what has been done, even if we deport every illegal. And raptor, those ARE the facts, even if you dont want them to be true.
I am not suggesting we make spanish our national language. Eventually their language will be corrupted. Spanglish. After one generation, my family had as many american words mixed in with the german as they had german words mixed in with the english. Hispanic immigrants are doing the same.
But to deny the need to learn another language, to deny that many people are just racist and bigoted on this issue, to deny that zero tolerance will be difficult and expensive…
… is to deny reality and rail against the wind.
At the risk of causing the earth to stop spinning…I will agree with you KFG. There are cultural issues above and beyond the legal ones, and it is damn difficult to separate the two.
The simplistic “deport em all” idea is clearly never going to work, if for no other reason our law enforcement agencies do not have the staff or time.
My frustration increases with every illegal demonstration demanding “rights”…when they are here illegally, they have no rights.
You offered a well thought out, rational and reasonable post, KFG.. and to the shock of many (myself included) I agree with you.
Kfg
My ancestors spoke German, and versions of it. Swiss, Dutch, and yes also Polish.
They were not accomodated when they came here. Books and signs were not printed in their language. Those already here were not told that they needed to learn to speak German.
(The TRUE natives of America were forced to accomodate. But that is another travesty)
And a part of the culture that you want me to embrace is the culture of a people so used to corrupton in their government that they won’t rise against it and correct it because they can run away from it. We have enough of such people in America already. But when we have finally descended to their level where will WE run away to? Part of that culture is a willingness to work any job for any pay and never question it for fear of starving to death BECAUSE of that failed government.
Mexico needs revolutionaries not refugees.
You say rightly that we should enforce the laws that we already have. But we are not going to do that unless we are willing to also have the spirit of the law. That spirit means the attitude must be:
“You do not belong here. You are here illegaly. You must leave here. There are legal means for coming here. You are encouraged to explore those means. While you do, consider making your own country a better place to live”
Is that spirit accomplished by announcements at Wal Mart en espanol?
I argue that total deportation is exactly what Mexico needs.
Imagine even 1 million illegals suddenly deposited at the border and forced to stay on the other side of it.
What would Vincente Fox do? Imagine a forced invasion of Mexico…..by it’s own people.
JR – “And a part of the culture that you want me to embrace is the culture of a people so used to corrupton in their government that they won’t rise against it and correct it because they can run away from it.”
Isn’t that what YOUR ancesters did?
Yeah Ben they did.Since you called hypocrite let me water the charge down with a little mitigating reality.
More than a hundred years ago. In a few cases more than 200 years ago. They all came here legally.
All of them crossed the stormy Atlantic on wooden ships. That tended to put a limit on their numbers. They couldn’t just hike over the border.
They arrived to a land with no OSHA, overtime, labor laws, welfare, workmans comp. .environmental laws, WIC, etc. etc. They fought for those improvements. They did not subvert them. They learned to speak the common language. They had only their own identities. They did not use false identification. And they did not send what little they earned back to Europe.
So the hypocrite charge while accurate, is really not relevant in context.
Ben Huie – It appears that you are in favor of indiscriminate illegal immigration. 12 million now; 20 million in 2016, 25 million. . . And, because of our “leader’s” foot-dragging, these numbers will probably be higher.
Big fines for employers hiring illegals, no amnesty for lawbreakers and secure the borders.
Just an aside: You may be an Aboriginal Native. There were no native-Americans.
:)
And as to whether my ancestors fled their woes thus failing the future of their nation, which is my charge against Mexicans; my ancestors all left before Germany was a unified nation (pre 1870’s) they could not leave in GREAT ENOUGH NUMBERS to prevent Germany from ultimately addressing its most pressing issue….unification. Thus the issue was settled by those that remained.
The bleed on Mexico is as I cited far greater. Mexico CANNOT solve its issues if its people are by and large itinerant.
“Big fines for employers hiring illegals, no amnesty for lawbreakers and secure the borders.”
I do not disagree with any of that.
JR, as to the language issue, nwks18 and I have seen the same presentation at a conference. This presentation involved a map showing schools in kansas teaching english as a second language. Most of kansas was covered. Heavily.
The funny part is…
The first language was german and the map was from the 1800’s.
I am not suggesting people should not learn english. I am not suggesting that we become canada with some provinces english speaking and some french speaking. I am not suggesting we make spanish our official language.
I am only pointing out that even if ALL THE ILLEGALS WENT AWAY…
…there would still be spanish announcements in walmart. If that is the issue, then say so.
If jobs are REALLY the issue, what difference does it make if walmart accomodates its customers?
Or is it just a cultural irritation?
Do you HAVE to learn spanish to listen to the announcements or read some signs? Arent they also made and posted in english?
No one is forcing anyone to learn spanish. It just seems like if the fastest growing segment of our LEGAL population is made up of LEGAL spanish speakers, one might want to be able to communicate with them. But then, that’s just me :)
And most of the rest of the world. A LOT of people in other countries routinely learn more than one language. But not us. We are content as long as we know english.
Ship ‘em all back. The problems of labor exploitation and cultural differences will remain. I would LOVE to change the culture of labor exploitation. But that would require us to call business to heel, and that will never happen as long as they finance and control our government(s).
Making a new law wont change the “spirit” of the old law. Only we can do that through enforcement. And so far, we dont seem to have the will for it, so what good will it do to pass new laws that we STILL wont enforce?
Or will stricter laws and a 700 mile wall just remove the cultural irritation?
I do not favor unrestricted – just the realization of the facts on the ground.
As for the claim that those that came from Europe came “legally” I find that questionable. They are the ones who defined legal as they stole the land.
Very good posts here on a complicated subject. I suspect these may be the next ones appropriated by the Editorial staff.
My ancestors on my father’s side were here early enough to fight in the Revolutionary war and on my mom’s side they were immigrants from Ireland in the mid-nineteenth century. The latter dutifully fought for the Union Army during the Civil War. A conflict where the wealthy were able to buy their way out (just like it has always been, and forever will be. Christ should have said “The rich will always be with you”).
JR,I always wondered about your position on this subject. Your explanations help clarify that for me. Did you know that in New Mexico (the nearly perfect part of our planet) that the state constitution and statutes are by state constitutional decree written both in Spanish and English. I don’t think this reasonable accomodation prevents the state from functioning as a representative state democracy. Surely you’re not saying your position would preclude New Mexico from doing this?
The illegal employment problem will only be dealt with when employers are consistenly fined for hiring them. Won’t happen until at least 2009.
I find no record in my family of my paternal grandfather getting citizenship. No records of port entry.
I suspect he entered illegally through canada or mexico. Maybe even brazil since that is where many of his people got onto land.
I cant vouch for my family being here legally, other than my mom AND my dad were anchor babies.
I do know neither grandpa or my grandmother ever collected social security. And they paid taxes, and my dad served in the military.
Maybe I dont have enough generations between me and my immigrant ancestors. Perhaps that is why I feel the cultural issues so deeply. They still call us “hard headed rooshins” out here.
Not that it isnt true… :)
Christ should have said “The rich will always be with you”.
DD, you are on A ROLL today!!
JR, I still love your posts, even when we dont agree. ESPECIALLY when we dont agree.
Some dater from the fedral gummit:–There are an estimated 15 million undocumented aliens in this country. They ain’t all gonna fit in the back of Bubba’s pickemup truck;–The cost of rounding them all up and sending them all back where they came from? $215 billion. Like dollars. In the immortal words of Everett Dirksen, sooner or later it adds up to real money.
And the cost of letting them stay?
More will come.
And the cost of that?The death of the last shred of the American dream. That and just about any worker protections you can name (market forces) and all the social programs (burdened to bankruptcy)
I gotta go with the racists on this one. (Especially if I’m gonna be accused of being one) At least they have the right answer even if it is for the wrong reason.Total deportation now
Lies, lies and more lies; the truth is that deprortation will work and will be cost effective!”A recent study questions whether deporting illegal immigrants would be worth the cost. Deporting the Undocumented: A Cost Assessment, [PDF] was published by the Center for American Progress, a liberal think-tank. It’s touted as the first-ever estimate of costs associated with apprehending, detaining, prosecuting, and removing immigrants who have entered the United States illegally or overstayed their visas.The cost of mass deportation according to CAP: $206 billion over five years ($41.2 billion per year). This study assumes that about 10 million illegals would be subject to deportation and 2 million would leave voluntarily if a mass deportation program was announced.But $206 billion is an absurdly large figure. The largest chunk of it is apprehension costs ($141 billion). In arriving at this figure, researchers blithely assumed that the historical, abysmally low, deportee apprehension rates would continue under a mass deportation regime:“We extrapolate from the available evidence to provide an estimate of the per-apprehension cost. In 1999, 240 agents apprehended 2,849 unauthorized workers, and, as noted above, 90 agents apprehended 445 unauthorized workers in 2003. Assuming a typical annual cost of $175,714 per agent, and after summing the number of apprehensions (3,294) and agents (330), the average apprehension cost comes to $17,603. Assuming a 20% voluntary departure rate, the total costs for apprehending 8,000,000 undocumented immigrants would be $141 billion over five years.”Ten deportees per agent per year is the apprehension rate the researchers used in estimating the cost of apprehending 8 million illegals. Ten per year! You can find more illegals in front of Wal-Mart in a single afternoon.But even if $206 billion was a reasonable cost estimate, mass deportation would be well worth it. Just consider the economic burden illegal aliens impose on the rest of us:Federal Deficit: The average illegal alien household receives $2,736 more Federal services than it pays in taxes. (See Table 1.) Since there are at least 3.8 million such households, the total drain on the federal budget is about $10.3 billion. [Steven A. Camarota, “The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget,” CIS, August 2004]These are conservative estimates. CIS assumes, for example, an illegal immigrant population of 8.7 million (the official Census Bureau figure) versus 10 million assumed in the deportation study. VDARE.COM’s D.A. King, later supported by other researchers [PDF] puts the illegal alien population as high as 20 million.State and local deficits: The comprehensive immigration study sponsored by the National Research Council [The New Americans: Economic, Demographic, and Fiscal Effects of Immigration, 1997] examined the fiscal impact of immigrants in California. While it did not explicitly compare illegal and legal immigrants, the NRC research staff found that the average immigrant household generated $3,823 more state and local spending than it paid in state and local taxes. (See Table 2.) Using California as a proxy for the national average, I estimate that illegal aliens increase state and local deficits by about $15 billion annually.American worker displacement effects: There are roughly 7 million illegal immigrants working in the U.S. – about 3.5 percent of the labor force. Each 1 percent rise in U.S. labor force due to immigration reduces native-born wages by about 0.35 percent, according to George Borjas. [PDF] It follows, then, that illegal immigrant workers reduce wages of U.S.-born workers by approximately 1.2 percent (3.5X0.35).If politicians don’t care, they should. Assuming native-born federal, state, and local tax payments fall by the same percent, native workers cough up $26 billion less taxes due to unfair competition from illegal alien workers.Total fiscal benefits of deportation are thus estimated at $51 billion per year—$25 billion in deficit reduction and $26 billion in foregone displacement losses.At this rate, mass deportation would pay for itself in about four years.Plus, of course, we’d get America back.”http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/060126_nd.htmV.L.R.B!!!—–
Once again, I’ve only skimmed the posts. Oh well, here goes, anyway:
“Just an aside: You may be an Aboriginal Native. There were no native-Americans.
:)”
Hehe! Okay, instigator,let’s just say Ben’s ancestors lived on this continent a few tens of thousand years before the rest of us showed up. :-) Did your relatives fight in the Revolutionary War, Ben?
But, if we consider the findings of archaeology and paleontology, it’s looking increasing likely that we are all, ultimately, African-Americans!
{Somewhere, Ian is having an embolism. . .:-)
JR
I find myself in rare agreement with you. Kudos for your excellent arguements.
Others
If expecting immigrants to follow our laws makes me a racist, what does expecting jail time for people who knowingly employ illegals make me?
I’m still thinking about this, which does not mean I have all the answers. :)
JR,
“And a part of the culture that you want me to embrace is the culture of a people so used to corrupton in their government that they won’t rise against it and correct it because they can run away from it. We have enough of such people in America already.”
No arguement there. We are not doing much to stop the corruption in our government either. And you are right, it is hard for us to run.
But lots of gay people are investigating Canada, Spain (franco is still dead) and even South Africa (!) as better places for us to live. I know, some of you wont miss us at all…
But it is possible, and maybe even desireable sometimes, for us to leave. I am not advocating it, but I have considered it.
After the vote on the hate amendment, I felt that I had decisions to make. I ached to stay on this family land and hated the idea that anyone could run me off my land. Part of me said “stay and fight”.
But… I was also demoralized and exhausted from two years of political wrangling. I was broke from giving my money to the cause. In short, I was tired of the fight. I just wanted to live in peace somewhere my partner and I could be married.
So I sat on the steps my grandad built, and I looked at the farm and I wondered what he would do. After some reflection, I had an answer.
He would do exactly what he did then. Then being when the Russians wanted to persecute him for practicing his lutheran beliefs.
He left.
He got off his butt and quit complaining and he left everything and everyone behind and risked everything for the possibility of the future.
He left, as you said, when he knew it was hopeless to influence the majority. I’m still here, maybe more stubborn or not as smart as Jake. But it’s not like I dont understand, I have a choice where I live.
“Mexico needs revolutionaries not refugees.”
I agree with this too.They need to move away from a resource based and extraction economy. I think the money destined for a big fence would be better invested in helping them develop their ecnonomy out of a colonial position with america.
Oh, and did I mention they need some workforce development help too? :)
“That spirit means the attitude must be:”You do not belong here. You are here illegaly. You must leave here. There are legal means for coming here. You are encouraged to explore those means. While you do, consider making your own country a better place to live”
JR, I agree with everything except the “you do not belong here” beginning. None of us “belongs” here like it is some karmic reward. Some of us were lucky enough to be born here or hard working enough to obtain legal citizenship.
If you cut that “belong” part out, I can support every word thereafter. You can start it by saying “you are here illegally”.
—–
…and I never said you were racist or a hypocrit. I dont think that. I’m just giving another point of view. And it seems to me we agree on most of it.
One thing for sure. The answer ISN’T more illegal aliens. I can understand wanting to come to this country for a better life. But it’s patently unfair to offer people who are here illegaly any kind of break. What message does that send to people who played by the rules to get here?
Why are we not screaming bloody murder for the blood of employers who hire illegals? The laws are already there. You can be fined $10,000 for hiring an illegal. Enforce the damn law! If employers thought they really would get fined hard, jobs for illegals would dry up in a hurry. No jobs, no stampede across our southern border. If we give 12 million illegals amnesty now, it’ll be 25 million next time.
XXX, I agree with all of that. I also agree that putting off a solution until after the elections or indefinately is not the answer either. Now is the time to deal with our problems.
KFG
“You do not belong here” might better have been preceeded by “You are here illegaly” In any event the sense I meant to convey and the feeling that I have is that they do not belong here BECAUSE they are here illegaly. Also I followed it with …Legal means….and make your country better (snipping here) to convey not a sense of exclusion but a sense that they BELONG in Mexico fixing problems and failing that THEN do the legal thing to come here. Sorry the confusion.
NAFTA was supposed to fix this. It was supposed to bring better jobs and environmental standards to Mexico. But even the eccentric Ross Perot knew that the thing would be played by the corps. The giant sucking sound happened just as he said it would. But even though the jobs went to Mexico, the rules to make them better did not change. We did what we could to help and at great cost to us. Mexico can only fix itself.
ASIDE HERE
I am sorry your predicament kfg. I cannot know your persecution. I nearlywan to weep when I read it. I encourage you to keep fighting. Attitudes are changing. I know it is slow.But a little encouragement? My Dad was a high school athlete in Fort Scott in the early 40’s. He competed against black athletes. But they had to have separate locker rooms.When I asked him if back then that felt odd or wrong he said.”No that was just the way it was. No one ever thought that much about it.” Now of course today (to most) separate locker rooms would seem rediculous. Prejudice hangs on of course. But it has to hide in the shadows where it belongs.
I think you will live to see civil unions and the attendant rights. I truly do.
Back to the point.
I know those folks who are coming here from Mexico are ALSO largely of a racial minority (ancient Indian I think) I do sympathize with them. But this is too much. There are too many. They get here too easily. They aren’t assimilating.
What sickens me the most is the complicity of it all. Mexico exports its problems and imports our money. Republicans get not only short term cheap labor but an ever growing assault on the working rights and conditions of Americans. Democrats salivate for a new large population who will need their help.
A new idea is being fielded. Attrition through enforcement. Maybe it has promise.
There is another way no less drastic or painful than total deportation.
Cut off trade with China. Do that and the manufacturing comes back to Mexico and they go home in numbers large enough to force change there.This would be extremely painful to our economy. But the burden would be shared and the expense would eventually start to roll back UPHILL instead of down.
Problem is, kfg, the elected don’t want to do anything that will tick off their voting base, hence, they would rather do nothing. Kinda like to awesome soft/hard/pac/corporate/ money for favors bill passed by the house and senate, huh? O, wait, they didn’t do anything about that either, did they.
Something else I was going to say. Now what was it . . . I know . . . NO INCUMBANTS!!!!
To date the number of companies investigated for hiring illegals is something like a few thousand.
The number of companies fined?
3
Dear raptor,
“73% of Kansans polled want illegals criminalized and shipped back to Mexico.”
Gosh that’s great news. Already a full 27% of Kansans don’t want illegals shipped back to Mexico. One out of four Kansans has substantial intelligence. Maybe by 2020, we can get the percentage up to 50%, when Kansans are told the REAL, COMPLETE benefit-cost ratio.
If you disagree, mount a campaign to get Brownback out of the Senate. He’s “your” representative, isn’t he?
He’s god’s senator heartlander. roberts is bush’s senator. No one represents kansas in the senate right now.
NO INCUMBENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is my hope that some day there will be NO hyphenated Americans.
Apparently, there are a whole bunch of illegals voting. You must be a US citizen to vote in Sedgwick County. I’m getting on the County commissioners and the Elections Commissioner about why they are allowing this. Some help, please?
Does Brownback ever come back to the state? He certainly doesn’t listen to the people who voted for him.
“Apparently, there are a whole bunch of illegals voting”
Got a source, a link or something to back up that statement?
Since Senator Sam Brownback has proven his dedication and loyalty, I believe he should run for President – of Mexico!
“73% of Kansans polled want illegals criminalized and shipped back to Mexico.”
The other 27% were illegal immigrants.
Still NO ONE providing a credible source that illegals are voting?
If it is so obvious, why not back it up?
Or could it be another meme…..
KFG,
Are you so naive to believe that the vermin who violate our laws would refrain from voting because it is illegal? It is also ridiculous for you to equate wetbacks with homosexuals. I gather that anyone who is not a White Christian heterosexual male is automatically an oppressed victim, right? Check out my wingnut sources at you leisure!
“..Stein says no one can say with any degree of certainty how often illegal immigrants vote, but that there are occasional fraud investigations. He pointed to the 1996 California race between former Rep. Robert Dornan and Rep. Loretta Sanchez, a Democrat, who defeated him by 985 votes.
In that race Dornan challenged the election results and set up a year-long battle over the validity of more than 700 votes, allegedly by illegal immigrants. A House committee voted to drop the investigation of Dornan’s accusations, saying that while they had found evidence of illegal votes by non-citizens, it wasn’t enough to affect the race.
Stein pointed to state drivers licenses as a problem. The so-called motor-voter program that allows individuals to register to vote when they obtain or renew their drivers licenses also opens the process to fraud. Some states do not require applicants to prove they are legal residents of the United States or citizens before they obtain a drivers license.
The problem has not entirely slipped past congressional radar.
Rep. Jeff Flake R-Ariz., introduced a bill that would bar federal agencies from accepting a state-issued drivers license unless the state has in effect a policy requiring presentation of acceptable forms of identification prior to issuance of the license.
“Acceptable forms of identification” would include a birth certificate, U.S. passport, a U.S. certificate of naturalization or U.S. certificate of citizenship.
Matthew Specht, an aide to Flake, said that Flake wanted to close the loophole opened when Congress passed the Help America Vote Act of 2000. That law states that a voter should present to “the appropriate state or local election official a current and valid photo identification.”
“There are some states like California that issue drivers licenses to undocumented citizens. That would be a case where you have a legal form of identification according to federal law … for somebody who is not a citizen and should not be allowed to vote,” Specht said.
Specht called state-issued drivers licenses the closest the United States has to a national ID card, a standard form of identification.”
http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/nov_2003/analysis.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15082
http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20040923-104542-8488r.htm
http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_220110555.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15285
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=are+illegal+immigrants+counted+towards+redistricting&sp=1&fr2=sp-top&ei=UTF-8&fr=slv1-wave&ei=UTF-8&SpellState=n-3315186066_q-DKgUdu7lj5VA7O5D3lM8UAAAAA%40%40
http://www.variousandsundry.com/politics/index.php?p=42
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
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ksfarmgrl. Be patient, I’ll get there. I also do other things. :)
The Washington Times article by Christina Bellantoni–
***************FAIR. Federation for American Immigration Reform. http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersb9dc
In my home county, Montgomery County, Md., six cities (Garrett Park, Takoma Park, Somerset, Chevy Chase, Martin’s Additions and Barnesville) allow illegal aliens to vote in local elections. So do Amherst and Cambridge, Mass. A similar policy was proposed last month by Democrats in San Francisco.
**********************Having broken many laws already, why would they hesitate to file a bogus voter registration? That’s illegal in Sedgwick County; up to 17 months in the clink! Gues how many have been prosecuted???
**********************Illegals also affect distribution of seats in the US House of Representative! They are counted weather they are citizens or not (yes, that’s off subject ? )
***********************Analysis: Few controls on illegal votingBy Kathy A. GambrellUPI White House ReporterWashington Times WASHINGTON, Nov. 21, 2003(UPI) –“Stein says no one can say with any degree of certainty how often illegal immigrants vote, but that there are occasional fraud investigations. He pointed to the 1996 California race between former Rep. Robert Dornan and Rep. Loretta Sanchez, a Democrat, who defeated him by 985 votes.In that race Dornan challenged the election results and set up a year-long battle over the validity of more than 700 votes, allegedly by illegal immigrants. A House committee voted to drop the investigation of Dornan’s accusations, saying that while they had found evidence of illegal votes by non-citizens, it wasn’t enough to affect the race.Stein pointed to state driver’s licenses as a problem. The so-called motor-voter program that allows individuals to register to vote when they obtain or renew their drivers licenses also opens the process to fraud. Some states do not require applicants to prove they are legal residents of the United States or citizens before they obtain a drivers license. You do the math.”***********************Enough for now?
“A House committee voted to drop the investigation of Dornan’s accusations, saying that while they had found evidence of illegal votes by non-citizens, it wasn’t enough to affect the race.”
Gosh, and since this was about the 96 election, that was a REPUBLICAN controlled house committee that said it didnt affect the race. Musta been a REAL PROBLEM with illegals voting if the r’s didnt use the issue when they controlled congress.
Even your source, STEIN said “occasional fraud investigations” with the operative word being FRAUD. (and “occassional”?) We have dead people voting in Ohio too. Fraud is not the sole possession of immigrants.
Seems like most of your rant is about illegals having drivers licenses. I have no problem requiring other forms of voter identification. I hardly think this backs up your claim of illegal voting. IF you wanna rant about licenses, do so, but please stay on the relevent issue here.
“allow illegal aliens to vote in local elections. So do Amherst and Cambridge, Mass. A similar policy was proposed last month by Democrats in San Francisco.”
So… the problem is some locations VOLUNTARILY enacted a POLICY of allowing immigrants to vote? So much for your support of local control. AND, well, damn them for voting where IT IS POLICY TO ALLOW IT!!!! I dont think it is voter fraud when it is LEGAL!!!
“Illegals also affect distribution of seats in the US House of Representative! They are counted weather they are citizens or not”
Prisons do the same thing. You are talking here about how the house is apportioned, NOT about illegals voting.
“Having broken many laws already, why would they hesitate to file a bogus voter registration? That’s illegal in Sedgwick County; up to 17 months in the clink! Gues how many have been prosecuted???”
This proves nothing. Facts please. How many of them actually DID IT? Then you can ask how many were prosecuted.
You also use the STEIN meme. Must be a google thing. Read my comments above.
Those quotes and links prove NOTHING about illegals voting.
Wanna talk about other election fraud issues in OHIO? Those had nothing to do with illegals.
Urban myth. Meme.
Nice job of proving nothing.
KSFARMGRL
You should have your own TV show “The Spin Zone.”
Sorry, I left out my original source: former County Elections Commissioner. Don’t bother to ask, I’m not going to name the county, him, her, or it.
If you believe that illegals aren’t voting right here in River City, I have some land in Florida (above water twice a day) that I’d like to talk to you about.