Much has been said about how pro-immigration demonstrators do themselves no favors by carrying Mexican flags. Those opposed to immigration reform also would do well to stop assuming that anybody who looks Hispanic is here illegally. Janet Murguia, a former University of Kansas executive vice chancellor who is now president of the National Counsel of La Raza, has been widely interviewed in recent days, most notably debating CNN’s anti-immigrant host Lou Dobbs. She told the Lawrence Journal-World: “I get e-mails and letters every day telling me — I’m an American, I was born in this country, I graduated from the great University of Kansas — to go back to where I came from, to go back to Mexico, to go home.” Immigration critics who treat all Hispanics like criminals just look like bigots.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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40 Comments
So why do they not go fix their own country instead of colonizing ours? Oh I forgot. The agenda of Murguia and La Raza IS the colonization of America.
Nothing like playing the race card!
There is little if any objection to people legally immigrating to the USA. It’s the 12 to 20 million that entered the country illegally, deal in fraudluent documents, maintain multiple identities, work off the books, obtain free social services and yet demand the same “rights” as those that follow the rules. They’re Hispanic, so just ignore all that. Sure, I’m a chump!
The short-sightedness and blind rage of these commenters is apalling.
Yes I am Hispanic and my family has been here for centuries, as far back as Spanish exploration. Don’t tell me that we’re pulling the race card. I don’t see you getting all upset at all the illegal Canadians in this country, or the human smugglers that import Chinese workers and children for exploitation. Rather, this is only a Hispanic issue.
There might be bigotry, but there is a case for concern about the illegal immigration problem.
And Matt O. is right. There are more nationalities and other serious crimes of human smuggling that are taking place in the USA.
This is a speech from the former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm.I snopes check it. http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/lamm.asp
THE AMERICAN DREAM?We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration over-population conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American’s finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, “Mexifornia,” explaining how immigration – both legal and illegal – was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.
Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let’s destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that ‘an autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.”
Here is how they do it,” Lamm said:
1. “First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country.” History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: “The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.” Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans.”
2. Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, “Invent ‘multiculturalism’ and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.
3. Third, “We could make the United States a ‘Hispanic Quebec’ without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: “The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multi-cultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.” Lamm said, “I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities.”
4. “Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school”
5. “My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of ‘Victimology.’ I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population.”
6. “My sixth plan for America’s downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences 1.rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other – that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshiped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. E. Pluribus Unum” — >From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the ‘pluribs’. instead of the ‘Unum,’ we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo.”
7. “Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of ‘diversity.’ I would find a word similar to ‘heretic’ in the 16th century – that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like ‘racist’ or ‘xenophobe’. Halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of ‘Victimology,’ I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them.”
8. In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said, “Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis’s book Mexifornia His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don’t read that book.”
There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate ‘diversity.’ American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America – take note of California and other states – to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell’s book 1984.” In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: “War is peace,” “Freedom is slavery,” and “Ignorance is strength.”
Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast if we don’t get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.
In California and elsewhere in the Southwest we seem to forget that it is the Anglos who are the more recent immigrants. La Raza began as a symbol of the Mexican heritage that pre-dated the US takeover of the region.
I purpose a bounty…like Coyotesfor all “Illegals” and “race card” players
Stirring and disquieting words Joe. The very stuff that made me declare the other day on the amnesty thread after observing Meixcans marching for their right to continue to break the law:
America is finished.
What is America? Let’s see, five centuries ago, Kansas was populated by Asian immigrants. Then it was claimed by Spain. Then handed to France. Then handed to the young United States of America.
Most of today’s Kansans are the descendants of “dirty” peasants, whom most American citizens didn’t want in “their” country, but the majority of Americans were overruled by a tiiny clique of robber barons who bribed politicians to allow the importation of cheap foreign laborers whose work output value was funneled to the robber barons, to make them fabulously wealthy and powerful.
Most Mexican immigrants are Indian-blooded. Their ancestors lived here. Your ancestors didn’t. So who’s country is it?
Suppose that God owns the planet, and you are only temporary sojourners. What is He saying about what he wants for his creation? Do you care? Obviously not.
You think your great-grandparents were “pioneers”? Right. They came to a land that already had established state and county governments, three universities, railroad service (without which grain production was impossible), and pre-platted parcels. The native population had already been cleared out. By the time your ancestors arrived here, if they had the money, they could travel to Chicago in three DAYS. Not quite the Oregon pioneers’ experience of being three MONTHS away from civilization.
Your progenitors weren’t pioneers. They were just poor people who came to a previously-planned state to take up work in a scheme that capitalists devised and fit your ancestors into. Most of them received capitalist-subsidized transportation. Sorry if the truth hurts.
Just to burst your generalization bubble, Heart…my mother’s side of the family has been here for over 300 years…I have an ancestor who signed the Declaration of Independence. So, yes, my ancesters WERE pioneers.
The truth hurts? Maybe you should try recognizing the truth sometime, instead of the made up generalizations you have convinced yourself are ‘real’.
Back to the previous comments..no, we don’t see backlash against immigrants from other countries. Maybe that will happen when we see thousands of illegal Canadians running thru the streets, waving Canadian flags and demanding their ‘rights’ while protesting laws in this country.
I still think these illegals should take their protests to China.. say, Tiannamen Square and see how far they get.
Well said raptor.
Heart? Your generalization IS applicable to MOST post European immigrants to this country. Most not all and not all of MY ancestors fit it.
I concur with the Robber Baron exploitation of immigrant labor……but only since about 1880.
Let us not forget about a large number of people whose ancestors were brought to America against their will to serve its needs pre 1865.
So you will see heart that your suggestion and Matt O’s outright accusal of racism in this matter is not accurate and is in fact offensive.
Raptor – my ancesters on my mothers side were here LONG before yours – in fact, your ancesters stole the land they settled.
Ben…
Makes you another exception to Heart’s ridiculous claim that nobody’s ancestors were pioneers.
And, while a sad state of affairs, it is a cruel fact of history. Not excused or explained, but since the dawn of ‘civilization’, nations have been conquered. Whether Mongols, Romans, Abyssians, etc., mankind has a cruel and violent history of land grabbing.
No one can, or successfully ever will, occupy China. Know why that is? Because in three generations the occupiers are Chinese.
I am going to go against the grain here and suggest that we can assimilate this culture into our melting pot. Yet, we need to do whatever we can to encourage legal immigration. Politically, the preceding will not happen until after the 2006 elections.
I think the primary reason immigration won’t be toched this year is that BOTH sides are trying to figure out how to use this as a wedge issue for political advantage.
If either side had a good idea, the other would be sure to stiffle it and in effect say “we don’t want you to do good for people of this country, it would disadvantage us.” Pathetic, but in fact how D.C. works (or, more accuately, “doesn’t work”).
My point raptor is that your ancesters were just as much illegal as many of todays immigrants. Add to that the fact that many in “Aztlan” predate Anglos it is hardly appropriate to paint them with such a braos brush.
I find myself ‘all over the place’ on this issue – and end up largely agreeing with Brownback and Bush. Those who are working and paying their way I will happily call brother (as long as they want to call themselves American instead of something else). Those who just want to freeload I will happily give a one-way bus ticket.
I worked with a guy years ago in LA who had been an illegal. He was a homeowner, paid taxes, worked hard. He was shop steward for the union there and thus was an adversary to me (I was ‘management’). However, he was fair with both me and with his members. That benefitted me in that he let us violate some of the nit-picky rules – as long as what I was doing was fundamentally fair to the workers. He was able to get citizenship and he is a good American. Somehow we need to be able to sort out the 11 million to determine who will be an asset to our country and who will not be. But, it ain’t gonna be easy.
Ben:”Somehow we need to be able to sort out the 11 million to determine who will be an asset to our country and who will not be. But, it ain’t gonna be easy.”
I agree – one does the above in the process of legal immigration. See my thoughts above on why I am doubting that this will happen soon.
I think people tend to get their opinions formed about immigrants from anecdotal and single case sources of info. Recall the story within the last few years about the Mexican guy who had a significant number of DUIs – when the heat would get on him – he’d slip back to Mexico & then return later when the heat had died down. That kind of story drowns out other stories you hear — like how religiously devout and hard-working many of the illegals are.
I look forward to when it is politically acceptable to resolve this problem.
All I can say is that in the past, when I desperately needed help, several hispanics came to my aid. I didn’t ask their immigration status then, and if a hispanic (or anyone else, for that matter) needs my help, I won’t be asking about it now!
The term “hispanic/latino” is meaningless, insulting and needs to be done away with! As a very White American of Spanish ancestry I take offense to being lumped in with useless negroes, mulattos, indios and mestizoes! America was founded as a homeland for White Christians period, end of story. The time has come to deport the vermin using as much force as is necessary.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Ben..
The invasion of this country beginning in the 1400’s was essentially an act of war.
Are you suggesting the illegals do the same? Take land by force and assert military power?
There is no valid comparison from 300+ years ago to violation of law that is now taking place. The indigenous people were treated badly, of that there is no argument. That, however, does not support illegal entry to this country today.
Anecdotal evidence, (such as your story of help) while powerful to the one involved, is not proof of widespread behavior. For example, the day after the Eagle had a story on litter, I was behind a pickup with Mexico written in the back window. As they drove north on Waco, someone threw an armload of fast food wrappers/containers out the window.
Anecdotal evidence is nice, but not conclusive.
Not an easy issue, that is obvious. I find the carefully orchestrated demonstrations (with all white t shirts and American flags for a change) of illegal people demanding their ‘rights’ is galling.
Ian,And just what is it that makes you so damn useful? You really ought to ease up on “vermin” since many of us might put you in that category.
If immigrants behave and vote in a block for the rights of their former countrymen, how assimilated have they become? The more their number is increased, the more their political capital is increased. The illegals want to share in the American dream, that dream includes not to be locked into low wage paying jobs they had to accept as illegals.
I just offered Vincente Fox CF, JR, Huie, Friedmann and KSFrmgirl for 100 illegals. He turned me down. Bastard.
Ian is vitriolic but his bottom line is correct. The only answer is total deportation.
Mexico has been broken for a long time. It will stay broken and this problem will stay with us until Mexico is fixed and made a place that its people can be proud of and actually want to live in.
The fact is that Mexico needs a revolution. But you cannot have a revolution without revolutionaries. As long as the United States gives these people a place to run to, there will be no rebels, only refugees.
For Mexico and for America
Total deportation NOW
Oh my goodness, folks! Most of you fail to see the real issue at hand. It is NOT a race issue at all. It is an economic issue, a security issue, and a legal issue. If it is okay for someone to come to this country and reap the benefits America has to offer without going through the legal process, then is it okay for me to kill someone? Sounds absurd, doesn’t it? There are laws against murder, likewise, there are laws against ILLEGAL immigration–not immigration–ILLEGALL immigration. I live in Arizona and teach 1st grade. You would be surprised at how many fake birth certificates I have seen. And what a shame for those people who suffer the long wait it takes to go through the legal process of becoming a citizen. If amnisty comes to pass, their struggle is meaningless.
Some Hispanic high schoolers here in Phoenix have voiced that their parents are here illegally doing jobs that “Americans are too lazy to do.” Legal American citizens are not too lazy for those jobs, it is the employers who are hiring them for a cheap and dishonest wage, so that the employers get more money in return.
Frequently here in Arizona, illegals drive on our roads without insurance and cause accidents and sometimes fatal ones. Sometimes, an illegal citizen will rob, steal, kill… Not all those who come here illegally break other laws, but if they can’t follow the most important one, how can we expect them to follow our other laws?!
It is a mess–especially here… and something needs to be done. E-mail your senators and representatives and let them know how you feel…
Molly, I hear ya. In fact, I said something in the same vein a week or so ago.
But there’s a problem. This country can’t AFFORD to round them all up and send them back to where they came from. Neither do we have the manpower.
Those who want to see something done about illegal immigration are called “racist” because that’s a word that will shut people up. Nobody wants to be called a racist.
The illegal immigration issue has been around a good 30 years. Nothing has been done about it. In fact, it’s been pretty much ignored. But with elections coming up, it makes for a GREAT wedge issue!! And look how well it’s working. Nothing will be done. You can count on that.
I’ve already posted to this issue. Forgive me for going off topic for a sec.
I’m interested as to you Molly.
Arizona??? How is it you come to post here? I”M GLAD YOU DID. I am just curious how you came to find this blog.
Are we that big?
I’m part Native American. My first European ancestors came here in 1680.
Anyone who tries to separate “legal” from “illegal” is either ignorant or a fraud perpetrator. What gave Spain the “legal” right to claim somebody else’s land, then trade it to France, and then for Napoleon (I don’t think he was a legal American citizen, but I could be wrong) to sell it to Thomas Jefferson and Co? How legal was it for American gov’t to establish treaties with Indians and then shred them?
If Indians migrate back up here to their ancestors’ homeland, that’s too bad for you if you can’t accommodate reality.
Human history is bigger than any of us can understand. Tides of migration don’t respond to legalisms that examined closely, are based on theft and fraud. Sorry if the truth hurts.
America now has tens of thousands of women doctors. A lot of them, perhaps most, employ “illegal immigrant” women to watch their children, cook, and clean their houses. Maybe you don’t go to a woman physician. Good for you. But a lot of people do, and find that these female doctors are smart, compassionate, and save people’s and improve white American citizens’ lives.
Actually, the number of white American-citizen women who employ “illegal immigrant” domestic help is in the millions. When we talk about the contributions and costs of “illegal immigration”, an accurate analysis must include the contributions to the American economy of working white American women who could not be productive contributors to our economy, and major donors to SS and MC programs for seniors, without “illegal” domestic help. Nobody has yet done this full analysis, but it will eventually be done.
Or put those white American working women “back in their place” and see what happens.
If you think have a credible complaint, why don’t you clean other white American citizens houses? I have done this. Why don’t you try it? See how you like it, especially those of you who are white red-blooded American males.
Last time mexico had a revolution the US couldn’t resist meddling in it. Same would happen today.
Poor Ian, the anti-immigrant, anti beaner. Beaner immigrant, must be awful confusing, I wonder if he came over in 1980 when Castro emptied the mental homes and sent them all here. That would explain alot
Guess we Americans are just greedy. Republicans wanted to share the wealth, so they sent our jobs overseas. Now they want to share it again, so they want to give citizenship to people who sneaked over here. Either way it costs us jobs, and increased competition for jobs drives down wages. I started out at 14 washing dishes, then graduated to janitoral work. There aren’t all that many jobs Americans won’t do. I also worked in a packing house for 10 yrs. for good pay. That industry in Kansas is now mostly dominated by mexicans who I doubt are making as much doing it as I did 20 yrs. ago.
Some of you guys are guilty of anachronisms. I won’t name names. Back to topic:Mexicans aren’t the only illegal immigrant entity in this country. Isincerely hope that when the illegal Mexicans “wetbacks” are deported, the government does the same to the Italian “W.O.P.s” and the Irish “F.O.B.s” as well as any other illegal immigrant entity in this country (like say, the Eastern Europeans) It is only fair, to deport all illegals, not just the ones some of us have higher opinions of. To do otherwise is simply discriminatory.
Hi JoeBlow … good to see you are still posting at your high standard!
Since when do foriegners control American immigration? That’s sure as hell what’s happening now. Why are we not going after illegals from Canada and China the same way we go after Mexicans? Maybe because we’re being inundated by Mexicans.
Illegals from Canada? Now there’s a huge problem. (NOT)
Joe Williams, excellent post on assemilation. Very good….you outdid yourself.
Foreigners started controlling American immigration centuries ago. The foreigners were called Spaniards, French, Portugese and English. The English invaders gobbled up most of North America, the Spanish took Central and South America, except for Brazil, which was ceded to Portugal, and the French had to settle for a small province in Canada called Quebec. (The Dutch got some small pieces of land here and there.)
Steve’s right on target. The minimum wage when I started working would be about $9 in today’s dollars. That was a kid’s wage. Our economy is bifurcating into a nation of haves and have nots, with a shrinking middle class.
The problem can’t be attributed to the immigrant invasion, because blue collar wages started dropping in the 70’s (i.e. didn’t keep pace with hyperinflation), but back then there were fewer than a quarter million illegal immigrants, and the vast majority of them were farm laborers who basically worked on the West Coast, Arizona and Texas, and many of them returned home at the end of each growing season.
I think our biggest problem, by a country mile, is an education system that was beautifully designed to service an industrial economy. That economy has moved overseas, in no small part due to US-paid-for development (World Bank, USAID, etc.), which is to say this was planned starting in the 1950’s.
We need to reinvent education for a postindustrial economy. Nobody wants to take on this herculean task. The people who run ed schools and community schools have no idea how to effect fundamental transformation. It would be like telling GM to convert itself into a software company.
In some states, 1 out of 4 white high school students are taking AP courses, and the national average is 1 out of 6. In Kansas, it’s about 1 out of 14. That’s a major disadvantage for Kansas’s young people.
The problem with the letter to the editors today re. Mexicans creating jobs in Dodge, is tha Dodge is one of the reasons other good paying processing plans shut their doors. Couldn’t compete with their unionized labor forces.
The problem with the letter to the editors today re. Mexicans creating jobs in Dodge, is tha Dodge is one of the reasons other good paying processing plans shut their doors. Couldn’t compete with their unionized labor forces.
In the 1960’s some sociologists surveyed the residents of a highly affluent retirement enclave in Southern California called Rancho Santa Fe. The sociologists asked many questions, including, “What college did you go to?” A majority of the respondents hadn’t gone to college.
We live in a changed world. Education matters far more than it did in the past.
BH,Oh please! Don’t put me in the same category as that JoeBlow loser. Me thinks you’re just mad at me for exposing your anachronisms in your earlier posts.
Cheers.
The only hope I see for ending illegal immigration is to do something about the distribution of power and wealth worldwide, a nearly impossible task. I agree with JD, this is being used as a wedge issue. The answer doesn’t lie in this country at all so it makes the perfect wedge issue, since nothing can really be done here.
But it does make a lovely way to divide us and get us carping amongst ourselves, doesn’t it? When I see more news coverage for one day of boycotts and protests than I’ve seen for three years of war protests, I realize there’s a clever PR campaign going on.
Keep those voters divided over something besides the real issues.
The United States of America is quickly becoming a turd world country, a cesspool of every unwanted criminal, pedophile, and anarchist; a tower of Babel destroying itself!!!