Karole Bradford, program director of Safe State Kansas, argued in a commentary in The Eagle that concealed-weapon licenses need to be open records to make sure the permitting system works properly (are only the people who qualify for the permits receiving them?) and to track the impact of the new law (are permit holders committing crimes?). She’s right. Some lawmakers have argued that the records should be closed for safety reasons (so that a criminal won’t know who is carrying and who isn’t). But that seems a big stretch (are muggers going to first do a database search before robbing someone?) and not enough of a reason to close these records. As Bradford wrote: “This is what the Kansas Open Records Act is all about — subjecting governmental decision making to public scrutiny so that Kansans can be sure the law is being followed.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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No, this is not what the Kansas Open Records act was all about. The Kansas Open Records act was about making Kansas Government more transparent. Interesting how some would have information of private citizens that have the ability to protect themselves, but you heard nothing of them when politicians decided to legalize bribery, and allow “certain” undisclosed governmental employees to be paid in part by “Private Interests”, and not subject to public disclosure under the Open Records Act.
A data base of legally carried weapons should be accessible by Law .Enforcement. But the argument that such records should be open to make sure only those that should be able to carry a concealed weapon are, is as weak an argument as that they should be closed so a mugger could not see whom is carrying.
Neither is a logical argument for either side. The system should have safe guards to insure only those that pass the qualifications are issued a permit to carrying. There would be no need for a watchdog group to have access to the records. That is just some wing nuts wanting to throw a monkey wrench in the mix.
The reasons for keeping it a closed record is not to keep criminals out but to keep undue prying by those that have an agenda and no business looking through such records.
I’m wondering why we have to apply for a license to do something that the constitution says we have the right to do.
I think vehicle registration should also be open records. I want to be able to look up your tag number and personally thank you for your courteous driving.
What else would we expect from the gun lover’s club? If you’re a law abiding citizen that only has self protection and the safty of your loved ones in mind, why would you care who knows? If it was public knowledge that you’re carrying, would that be a detterent for someone who wants to do you harm? Seems like you guys are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Not that I really care one way or the other, but it is interesting to note that a database of who DOES have a ccw permit would, be default, show who does NOT.
The people who do not have such a permit could possibly be easier targets for the criminals who prey on such?
Not saying it would happen, not saying it could happen, just an observation.
Is there a valid reason for opening those records? I can’t think of one.
Instead, that writerdog is exactly right: this is sought by those with an agenda who want to use those records to “out” those who get CCW permits.
The first word in CCW, remember, is concealed. It’s concealed for a reason.
And the first person to exercise that agenda, I suspect, will be our own Phil Brownlee. His threads on this subject expose that agenda clearly. That’s exactly why the records should be closed.
Statistics on numbers who carry, numbers who apply but are denied, numbers who commit crimes with carry weapons, etc.? Absolutely; make those records known. I am confident that those records will show CCW holders are vastly more responsible that the average citizen, as they have shown in state after state. But lists of individuals who carry? No.
Absolutely not.
I have to disagree with you on one point writerdog. I have worked with thousands of convicted armed robbers, drug dealers, burglers, rapists and murderers over the past 20 years and can tell you for a fact that checking out their mark’s ability to defend themselves is exactly the kind of thing a large percentage of them would do. People automatically assume these people are stupid, but I hate to inform you a majority of them consider robbing and raping their, “Job”. They would tell you it is their occupation and doing their homework is absolutely necessary to get away with it.If one believes that it is so far fetched then maybe you would find it interesting to know that just this month in Riverside Mo they picked up a couple of guys researching obituaries and robbing people who were attending funerals. What a simple tool it would be to visit Kansas.gov and cross check your targets ability to defend themselves compliments of “Leftists R Us.
Hank,You may look up my tag in order to pay me a visit, however, since it was so badly abused you must first visit the subscriber services at Kansas.gov, download the application and send it in along with 70.00 and your credit card number, agree to several pages of threats and consequences of abuse, and pay 6.50 for every tag you wish to search. Your personal information is for sale under the Open Records Act, but unfortunately there is no service for any price to find out which state employees are being paid under the table by private interests, on top of what they get from the taxpayers.
Its not her or anyone besides the law enforcements business to know that I carry a gun legally.We do not need her or her kind as watch dogs. The law enforcement people will do a good job. I think Karole’s driver license info should be published so all the dirtbags can stalk her easier. Think about that for a minute…
Let’s be blunt. The last thing Karole Bradford and Safe Streets Kansas wants to do is see if the law is being administered correctly. Their agenda is clear, and again, exactly why the lists of those carrying should be closed.
And BTW, KCL, while I’m as much a 2nd amendment supporter as anyone, I don’t think the 2nd guarantees a right to carry a concealed weapon. I guarantees our right to own and possess weapons. It arguably guarantees the right to possess military weapons, though as a practical matter there are limits there. But I don’t think it speaks to concealed weapons at all.
Dear Damoon,
I’m carrying. I trust you, but don’t tell anyone else.
Hank
Hank,Sadly, your comment to Damoon makes me feel even less safe.
I no longer have opinions on this issue. It’s a done deal, has been going on for forever, and there’s nothing I can do. Whining has never helped.
This is ridiculous. Most people, like me who get ccw permits also own other weapons and criminals could use this information, if made public to stake out our homes and steal our rifles and ammo while we are absent. Making ccw records public puts my family and property at risk and politicians who support this “outing” should be killed!
PS: I own 81 firearms and lots of ammo and if you BATF scum are reading this do not come to my home again unless you have a damn warrant!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
Open Records?
You mean like the ones requested by Phil Kline of underage teens having sex so that Phil Kline can see if the law is being broken?
Oh. I guess this really isn’t about “open records” after all.
Dear RD,
Twice, in my life carring a gun has saved me from being a victim. Never had to point it at anybody, never had to shoot anybody.
I don’t carry it to make you “feel” safe. I carry it to protect me and mine.
Hank
Dear Ian,
Don’t forget G. Gordon Liddy’s advice on BATF agents.
Hank
Whatever, Hank. I doubt you’ll change my mind. I’d rather play ostrich on the subject, I admit.
Funny how it’s the GUYS who are so big on guns…as if guns are a cover-up for some kind of inadequacy. (pun intended, I think)
As for Ian’s 81 guns, I have to laugh. Figure that out for yourself, Ian.
RD,
Drats, I have been exposed yet again. You are correct, I have an uber small Sigfried and my guns, my 50 caliber assault rifle in particular help to make up for my “shortcomings”. I am just a short, fat, bald, low iq, bitter, underachieving White guy with a micro penis! HELP ME JERRY, HELP ME!!!!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
I MIGHT allow law enforcement access but they should not be open to the public.
I read Karole Bradford’s commentary, and it’s the biggest steaming pile of crap I’ve seen in a long time. Do we want our tax records open for public scrutiny? Why not? they’re “Government” records. By the same reasioning she uses, why not open ALL personal records the government has on citizens?
“This is what the Kansas Open Records Act is all about”
Well, no it’s not.
The same left-wing, anti-gun fools who want to out ccw permit holders are the same scum who want to conceal the identity of sex offenders who get released into unsuspecting communities.
V.L.R.B!!!
No certainly not. The records should be kept private, just like health records and health related issues should be kept private. The only thing that should be done, potentially, is to record on any police incident reports (like murders, suicises, confrontations resulting in injury, etc. ) whether a ccw holder was involved…nothing more. That would at least give researches on the subject access to data for future statistical analyses of crime data to see if ccw has an effect.
All firearms ownership should be public knowledge. People have a right to know who and what they are living around.
The conceal carry folks will do a good job of outing themselves. They will be very eager to wave their guns around. First “words” you have with them and they’ll flip back the jacket showing their gun. That’s the only reason they need or want to carry one. They are mostly paranoid, provincial little folks whohave to “win” any encounter.
JR,
I am sure there are well documented cases showing just what you claim in the many other states which allow concealed carry?
I won’t hold my breath.
Dear JR,
Just because one is paranoid doesn’t mean the bastards aint out to get you.
Hank
Don’t bother, Nathan. You won’t get an answer. Been there. Tried to do that. Silence.
Pointing out that state after state has been there won’t matter. Experience counts for nothing, of course. JR knows.
JR, remember, is the self-appointed arbiter of truth, credibility an the American way here.
I speak from personal experience GMC. Before you jump on me why don’t you address Hank who has openly admitted to illegally carrying? Or is he maybe a good illustration of the very folks I’m talking about?
Ian and Dear Hank,
I was only teasing about the inadequacies. I’ve researched enough about men to understand their fascination with guns. Nothing to do with violence, shortcomings or anything else. It does have to do with those way-back ancestors who used weapons for hunting to feed the women and children and for protection. I’m talking cavemen, by the way.
But I do love to see if I can get a rise (not that kind!) out of guys, whenever the opportunity presents itself.
RD
A little off topic but, it’s the Tim Taylor “tool time” syndrome. I’ve noticed it in my 3 yr old boy. Wether it be a hammer, his moms mixer, the vacuum cleaner, or the cordless drill. There’s something about the look and feel of a tool, it’s in mens and little boys DNA. It might be cars, pocket watches, power tools, guns, grandfather clocks. Tools trigger something in men that’s as ancient as rocks and sticks. (no double entendre intended)
Ha! Great post, Heckler.
Dear JR,
Illegal? You assume too much. First of all, just because I’m carrying right now, and I am, doesn’t mean I’m illegal, I’m in my house. Private property. Furthermore, just because I’m carrying anywhere doesn’t mean I’m carrying concealed. It’s legal to carry a gun in public most places if it’s in the open.
Since I’ve met you I know that you are a pretty nice fella in person. You’ve an engaging smile, an interesting personality and all-in-all a rather innocuous although generally mis-informed person.
If, however, all I had to go on were your rather inflamatory posts on this BLOG I would think that you were a border-line idiot. Generally the names you call others pretty much describe you.
Since you’ve linked my name with your inane ramblings, let’s analize your comments, shall we? You imply that I’m paranoid. Yet I post under my real name, unlike you who cowers behind your initials. You suggest that I would ‘flip back’ my jacket showing my gun to win an argument. You on the other hand habitually construct a ’straw man’ and argue against it rather than engage in any intelligent discourse. You never argue a point on merit, your favorite tactic is ad hominum attacks.
So, other than your ascerbic, unfounded assumptions and sick sense of humor you bring very little to the discussion.
Hank
PS Mine is bigger than yours.
Heckler,
Exactly what I was getting at. Girls just wanna have fun, ya know.
Hank
In person, I also found you to be basically an ok guy. You post occasionally of your involvement around children and your invovlement and even rescue with dogs. The latter of which I know to be true as I observed you at the dog show. I’d have even said hello but you were in an entrants only area. But just as you formed an opinion of me in person as likeable but mis-informed, well I sorta came away with the same impression as to you. You are a decent guy but I don’t think I could agree with you on much of anything.
I’d be truly concerned with your take on my posts and my role on the blog if it was matched by anyones opinion but yours and two or three others who perhaps not coincidentally are on the same side of issues as you. Rest assured I am very conscious that my words may be read by many. And I have asked the opinion of people I trust as to my posts. They are unanimous in telling me that I am not in any way over the line or unfair. It IS fair to say here that these are folks who you would also call “idiots”.
I have traded shots with you for a long time. I go back to the archives and look. I encourage you to do the same. And if you are fair you will see that you are basically a “troll”. You post to piss off. You stick your finger in someones eye and wait for and even maybe crave a virulent response. For you there is no arguement because you are right by default. The arguement is already over before it’s begun. And just as above, your basic technique is to play at being the nice guy and attack the intelligence of others who disagree with you and then dismiss them by saying “still love ya”
And so if I were to go just by YOUR posts, I’d call you a mean self-righteous, wealthy, arrogant jerk. The very epitome of a Consevative Republican charicature. I’d say you bring a great deal to the blog in defining folks like yourself.
But as is your tack, you have spun me off topic.
You have used an illegally carried gun to protect yourself on two occasions? Tell as to those occasions. Otherwise I call BS. You don’t proudly flaunt the law? Then why did you announce with great pleasure that you were within arms reach of three guns at the last meet up……..AFTER the meet up?Finally? Rather than dismissing me as bringing nothing to the discussion (as you do anyone who disagrees with you) why not simply ignore me? I can ignore you easily. I doubt you are as strong.
JR,
I carry my gun illegally too.
I have several friends in the Sheriff’s department, one on the WPD, a State Trooper in Kansas and in Oklahoma.
They all give me tips on how to carry illegally too, without getting caught.
You know what? All the bad guys who rob quick trips and who knows what else carry illegally too.
At least now, I am not going to be breaking the law anymore for simply protecting myself.
So what we’ve established here is that the Price family are criminals.
It must be a genetic thing.
Well Nathan I would have guessed as much about you.
And yet another gun carrier admitting he willingly breaks the law.
You inspire no confidence for your cause Nathan.
And given your posts to this forum, I wonder if you are “protecting” yourself against those who simply disagree with you.
Dear JR,
At the risk of ‘poking my finger in your eye’ again, please tell me when I’ve ever carried illegally?
The times I have used a gun to save my bacon I was carrying legally.
I don’t know about the boy’s guns, but at the picnic my gun was legal.
JR,
By the way, sorry I missed you at the dog show. We’re a small club and everyone has more than one job. Usually pretty busy.
No excuse, though. If you had your boy with you sorry I didn’t get to give you guys a tour!
Hank
Hank, you admitted you carried illegally in one of the previous gun threads. Bone dig time. But I’d have to care enough to do it.
Can’t have it both ways, Hank. You have indeed claimed to carry illegally. That’s the sort of thing that makes it so hard for those of us who legitimately support CCW. Of course you’re Hank, so that puts you above the law.
CCW is for law-abiding citizens, not criminals.
Nathan,”I have several friends in the Sheriff’s department, one on the WPD, a State Trooper in Kansas and in Oklahoma.
They all give me tips on how to carry illegally too, without getting caught.”
You have several friends that are “dirty cops”. It’s so reassuring to hear that about our local law enforcement.
Have you considered the consiquinces of publishing a statement like that on an open blog? I wonder what your “friends” are going to think when they find out you just put their jobs in jepardy.
WE EDITORS: HOW ABOUT A LITTLE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING HERE? A BLOGGER ON THIS THREAD HAS STATED THAT SOME LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE INVOLVED IN CRIMINAL CONDUCT. WHAT IS A NEWSPAPER FOR IF NOT TO EXPOSE THIS SORT OF ACTIVITY!?
XXX, KFG, JR, Misc. whiney liberals…
When I say I carry illegally do you even know what I am talking about?
Did you know that almost every city in this state has their own unique laws on how to transport a firearm?
If you don’t have it locked in a certain way with the ammunition kept a certain way with it being all in a certain way out of reach and still not concealed you are carrying illegally.
So, by simply driving from the range in cheney where I have my guns in all sorts of varying degrees of transport in cases, in bags, etc… with ammo with some and not with others I am carrying “illegally” through wichita.
Guess what? I am probably speeding when I do it too.
I am such a law breaker…
KFG, JR, XXX, Misc. Whiney liberals…
As far as my friends go, they also give me tips on how fast you can go before you get pulled over too!
Oh the drama! Where is the investigation?
“When I say I carry illegally do you even know what I am talking about?”
“They all give me tips on how to carry illegally too, without getting caught.”
The “without getting caught.” would imply that you’re doing something knowingly illegal.
“So, by simply driving from the range in cheney where I have my guns in all sorts of varying degrees of transport in cases, in bags, etc… with ammo with some and not with others I am carrying “illegally” through wichita.”
Nathan, the law clearly makes allowances for carrying weapons from one place to the other. If you’re carrying a loaded weapon in your car or truck, it’s illegal. If it’s anyplace except locked in the trunk, or out in plain sight, it’s illegal.
Your implication was that you carry illegally regardless of what the law is.
Nathan, if it’s against the law to carry a concealed weapon, what kind of people carry concealed weapons? I know you won’t answer the question, so I’ll answer it for you.
Criminals.
Nathan, it’s no wonder we’re having so much trouble selling CCW when people who are against it have people like you to use as an example.
Do you only abide by laws you agree with?
Are you above the law?
I don’t know why ccw is such a big deal to people. It isn’t like criminals aren’t gonna conceal and carry there saturday-night specials anyway! If anything, it will level the playing field by making the responsible, law-abiding citizens legally capable of protecting themselves. I see CCW as a preventive measure.
Ahhh the Price boys.Hank pleads “I don’t carry illegally”
Nathan reads the same posts and says “I carry illegally too”
You guys can’t get your stories straight between the two of you. How much a greater task you have against the forum at large.
X is right you know. The part about selling this to folks with concerns.
See sometimes, alotta times, I post a thread like this not claiming that I am right but asking the opposition to prove me wrong.
Hank? You were obviously very busy at the dog show. I would not have wanted to disturb you. You were taking stats or soemthing for an agility.
I believe you said that on two precious occasions you have “saved your bacon” because you had a concealed weapon that you did not need to pull let alone fire. I invited you to share details of these encounters. I ask again. Be specific. Otherwise I call BS.
Nathan? Just how do you hope to inspire people to be comfortable with you or anyone else carrying a concealed weapon when you get busy telling about how many other laws you work your way around? And you are in collusion with law enforcement doing it? Well thanks I can’t trust the police now either. Again with the special dispensation for Nathan.
Now I’ve called no names here. I did suggest a few character flaws. Is it rude to suggest that when you use words like “idiot” and “whiney liberals” you may be getting desperate because your own arguement is so flawed that you can only be right by making others less intelligent at least according to you?
So I invite you again. All of the above included, show me why I should not worry about you or anyone else carrying a concealed or unconcealed gun.
CruX, there are a lot of good reasons to be concerned about CCW. Considering where you come from, I’m sure you’ve seen idiots with guns and the results thereof. CCW is supported by a lot of concerned responsible citizens.Unfortunately, there are a lot of John Waynes and tough-guy wannabes who support CCW. You can see that on these threads.I would hope that the screening process will be stringent enough to weed out the vigilantes, the unstable, and the immature.
Some of the posts I’ve read on this blog are enough to give one pause.
On the face of it, CCW provides a level of safety against mayhem. But those of us considering it need to remember, the minute you pull that gun, you become target #1. Shooting at a target on the range is a far cry from what happens in a gun fight. Funny things happen to your reflexes and aim when you’re being shot at.
Those of us who support CCW need to be very aware of the thoughts and feelings of people who don’t support it. They’re forced to live with the consequinces, too.
Bone dig as promised. If you cant stand to read Hank’s entire post, scroll down to the highlights at the end.
Dear RD,
1. What is the main reason you own a gun?
Recreation. I enjoy target shooting. Then protection. I usually have a gun handy in my vehicles and home. I believe they have saved me from harm more than once.
2. What type of gun do you have? Shotgun? Rifle? Handgun? AK47? If you have several, which do you think of as your “main” gun?
I’ve reduced my collection in recent years. One 12 guage shotgun (870) and a few 45 cal pistols. My wife has a 38 special she keeps in her night stand. I stick with 45s to keep my ammo needs simple.
3. Where do you keep your gun (don’t be specific, please)? Your bedroom? Basement? Living room closet?
In the console of my pickup or under the seat of my car. In my night stand. In the closet by my door. In the cabinet above the driver’s seat in my motor home.
4. Do you have children in your home? Do they know where your gun and ammunition are kept? Have your children (or child) had gun safety training or have you given them training?
No children. I put guns up when we have guests. We have a liberal friend that visits from CO every now and then. When she learned that I owned a gun she freaked out. She’s never seen one of my guns, she just couldn’t believe I owned one.
5. Do you keep your ammunition in a separate place or in your gun? If in your gun, do you have a trigger lock on it? If so, do you keep the key in a separate place?
No. Most of my ammo is in my closet. My guns are everywhere. Loaded. Rounds in the chambers. My wife’s pistol is either loaded or not, usually loaded if I’m out of town. Don’t own a trigger lock. Wouldn’t use one if you gave me one.
5. With CC now ready to be enacted, where do you think you will need to take your gun and why? In other words, if the majority of your day is spent at work, and your workplace (among other places) bans guns, where do you go that you feel you need the protection of a firearm?
I’m not really too paranoid. I’ll probably never carry a gun concealed without a specific reason. A few months ago I trapped 35 drunk college kids up at our stables until the sherrif deputies arrived. I didn’t see any reason to carry my gun up there, but I had one in my truck.
Now, let me add a TTBOI or two you didn’t as for:
I’ll probably get a license to CC. Just because I can.
I think that actually carrying a concealed weapon will have less to do with reducing crime than the mere knowledge that people can carry if they want to. Instead I’ll probably just put another NRA sticker on my PU.
The CC law will not really change my life very much. I’ve always carried a gun when ever I wanted to, for any reason I wanted. I just don’t see much need to in my every day life.
Hank
Posted by: Hank | March 23, 2006 at 10:42 PM
Note: “I usually have a gun handy in my vehicles and home.”
“In the console of my pickup or under the seat of my car. In my night stand. In the closet by my door. In the cabinet above the driver’s seat in my motor home.”
and this:
“No. Most of my ammo is in my closet. My guns are everywhere. Loaded. Rounds in the chambers. My wife’s pistol is either loaded or not, usually loaded if I’m out of town. Don’t own a trigger lock. Wouldn’t use one if you gave me one.”
sounds like LOTS of illegal gun carrying and concealing.
I’ll be back with more
I don’t have a problem with the database of permit holders being open for the purposes of legitimate research, as a matter of fact I wish it had been written into the law that crimes by permit holders be compiled and compared to the general population. Texas and several other states did it. Texas found that the general population commits violent crime at a ratio of 900:1 to permit holders. Florida found that its permit holders had a lower rate of violent crime than their law enforcement community. Kind of makes it hard for detractors to argue with the facts, although Karole Bradford told a few whoppers in that commentary.
But the records should be no more open to the public than license plate record or tax records are. They are personal data, not interactions among lawmakers, school boards, lobyyist activity etc.
If you want to know if your neighbor carries just ask them. If you want to know if the operator of your childs day care center carries ask them.
OUCH!
Nothing stings like one’s own words. Hanks got a graveyard full of ‘em just waiting to come back and haunt him. And not just on this subject.
I find particularly interesting the juxtaposition of “My guns are everywhere” with “I’m not too paranoid though”
Good post, Heckler. Records of permit holders should be available for legitimate law enforcement purposes and for generalized statistical info.
I don’t, however, want to wake up some morning to find some group of anti-gun nuts in my street trying to intimidate me.
Karole Bradford is obviously some kind of nut with an agenda.
Just what we needed in Kansas…more fanatics.
I find myself largely in agreement with Heckler. When I posted above I had not thought about the statistical study idea - I like it. I can also support LEGITIMATE law enforcement access (although I’m not sure how to define legitimate) However, I OPPOSE them being generally open for a number of reasons.
I don’t know where that puts me in the “whiney liberals” scale …
JR,
You are the one who associates carrying a gun with being paranoid.
I don’t. I don’t believe my father does either. At least not anymore than I am paranoid of getting in a car crash so I wear my seatbelt…
Nathan
“I carry my gun illegally too” your words.
paranoid: characterized by delusions that are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others. Random House dictionary.
Does this define you? You are willing and eager to break the law to carry a gun. Why?
Oh and thanks for answering me? I do feel priviledged. Kfg and XXX didn’t get any answers from you. I don’t suspect they will?
JR,
I was at work. Now I am on my way to play poker with some friends.
Guess what? We will be playing for money.
Here I go again breaking the law, what a criminal I am!
Sorry, that I don’t take every moment of my day to address each and every post directed at myself in a timely manner for you.
I plan on responding when I have the time. Right now I don’t.
Talk to you later
PS If you have any reading comprehension you would notice a certain word in the def. of paranoid:
delusions
Letting the general public know who does and who does not carry a legally concealed weapon is maybe the stupidest idea I have heard since the last time Nancy Pelosi got in front of a microphone.
A very large portion of any net benefit from CCW possibly flowing to Kansas’s public safety lies in the first C.
That said, Heckler’s spot on about data collected for purposes of comparison (research), and I agree that the data will likely show CCW permit holders are generally more law-abiding than the general population as a whole. Kansans are more similar than dissimilar to Texans, after all.
Noted, too, that Heckler’s willing to collect data to stand behind his position (hat’s off, too, in a kind of call your shot in 9-ball way).
I’m very uneasy about CC laws, but information on ordinary citizens needs to be kept private, and released only for judiciously considered reasons on a “need to know” basis.
There is a difference between the sunlight of open records–keeping government accountable–and inadvertently making the private public. Federal law acknowleged this when Congress passed the Freedom of Information Act with an accompanying Privacy Act.
We have become a database nation, folks, and if we don’t take privacy seriously, we’ll feel the consequences (in fact, we have already).
But, playing devil’s advocate for a moment, if the only information released is a name. . .and what use is that to anyone?
Never mind. I was thinking I could argue the other side of this, but I’m not sure.
I’ve taken apart the “bone dig” above, JR, KFG.
And frankly, looking at it as if I were considering a case for prosecution for illegal carry, and based entirely upon the items submitted in KFG’s “bonedig,” I cannot conclude that Hank carried illegally; on the contrary, nothing in those statements indicates that. They may have, but based upon those statements, it is not at all conclusive.
Having a weapon in your car, even loaded, is not illegal in Kansas unless there is a local ordinance barring same (such as SG county has). Carrying on your person is generally not illegal either, openly and not concealed, again, unless there is a local ordinance barring same (SG Co, again, has one, and that changes Jan. 1).
So - without knowing just where Hank was driving the vehicle with the weapon, I cannot conclude that it was illegal. Even a weapon in the vehicle can be made easily “legal” and still be quickly available if need be.
I’ll pass on more for now.
And we’ve kinda got off thread, haven’t we?
BTW - JR, Hank’s got you pegged about right, at least as to the writing part. Can’t say as to the in person part.
Sorry it’s taken so long for me to defend myself in the court of public opinion, been busy.
This particular thread is perfect for demonstrating the hypocrisy and ignorance of liberals. Guns in this country are part of our culture. I was raised in a family that having a gun was as common as having a hammer. It was a tool. It was recreation. It was also a defense.
During my lifetime there has been a never-ending drumbeat against gun owners. The mere fact that you own a gun is prima fascia evidence that you are a criminal in some people’s mind. When I was in high school I went downtown and bought a 22 rifle. Carried it and a box of ammo home out in the open. I don’t know exactly how old I was, but I had to walk home because I was too young to drive. Got my first car when I was fourteen so I was younger than that.
Take for instance the ‘evidence’ that I am a criminal that KFG dug up. 90% of it proves nothing. The other 10% is merely circumstantial evidence that I’m a scofflaw. Now before you get your liberal panties in a wad, I admit that on occasion I might be in violation of some inane local gun control ordinance. I don’t care. My responsibility to protect me and mine trumps any liberal politician’s efforts to take away my second amendment rights.
To put my crimes in perspective let’s take JR for example. Seems to be a rather innocuous, harmless little man. A concerned vocal citizen. However, let’s see how harmless he really is! While he gleefully points out that I’m a felon for carrying a gun, he also admits to occasional drug use. The bedwetting liberals seem to just let that pass, however, his recreational drug use and the drug culture in America is responsible for more deaths than honest citizens like me carrying a gun.
You see, for every child that dies as a result of a gun, 100 die as a result of illegal drug use. Most of the so-called children that die every day in America because of guns are actually little drug dealers that are fighting over territory or drugs. Most of the crime in America is because of losers that are addicted to recreational drugs trying to come up with the money for their next fix. More people die everyday in automobile accidents because of some idiot driving under the influence of illegal drugs than die of guns.
But in the liberal worldview, an idiot like JR is just a harmless little nut that is exercising his right to do what ever he likes to his own body. He has no responsibility for the illegal drug trade that supplies his little expeditions into mindless nirvana. Although he is the main reason that drug crimes are committed he has no responsibility for all of the death and heartache from recreational drug use. I’m the criminal though, because ooooh I carry a gun!
I carry a gun. Not literally, but generally if you don’t kill me with your first shot, I ‘m usually close enough to a gun to fire back. If you knock on my door after bedtime I’ll generally answer it with a gun in my hand. Even though I’m a lawless never-do-well, the fact that I carry a gun has never hurt anyone. It has however saved me from harm on more than one occasion.
So I’ll keep carrying a gun whenever and wherever I want. You can keep wringing your hands and call me a criminal. But even though I might have a gun in my truck you’ll still be safe, because I’ll never drive under the influence of drugs or alcohol. You’ll still be safe, because I’ll never brandish it asking for trouble. You’ll still be safe because I’ll never pull it unless I’m in fear of my life. But the next time your house gets broken in too by some doper, his supplier might be the same as JR’s.
I still love you guys, be afraid, be so afraid!
Hank
Hank,It seems to me that the basis of this “argument” is a difference in raising kids. Some kids are brought up with guns in the house and know how to handle and respect them and others are brought up that guns are scary and should be outlawed.
It’s a well known fact in my family - You come over after the house is dark, you’d better be calling out who you are and why you’re there (loudly) because you may have a gun barrel uncomfortably close to your head if you don’t. That rule applies at my house, my parents, several aunts/uncles and my grandpa’s.
Dear Allie,
If it were only that simple. It’s the MSM, liberal politicians, government indoctrination centers claiming to be schools and on and on and on. It is imperative for the socialist agenda to suceed that the citizens be unarmed.
Unable to win in the arena of ideas these pervaeyors of situational ethics must make the conservative position illegal.
I sometimes wonder how JR’s little one will turn out. In my opinion he doesn’t have much of an example to follow. My boy is a Christian, a very good son, a Marine. He doesn’t smoke, drink or use illegal drugs. In the long run, how your children turn out is the only thing that matters.
Hank
Those who say they’ve never had any problems with their kids make you wonder what else they lie about. “Let he who is WITHOUT SIN throw the first stone”.I find it frustrating when debate turns into personal insults just because one’s arguement is weak.
I think JR’s little one will probably be just fine.
Thanks Damoon, I needed that.
Mr Price?
Shortly after your second to last post, I emailed you. I advised you that your post as to my recreational drug use
“Take J R”….”he has admitted to occasional drug use”
was an outright lie and invited you to prove otherwise. I told you I did not wish to give your lie further air by refuting it. I told you that any further lies about me on your part would be cause for me to seek my options under the law. I also advised you that a gentleman would admit to his lie and apologize publicly. I have not heard back. Since then you have attacked me further and included my son.
And so sir, the gloves are off.
I do not use drugs. I have never used drugs aside from a few instances more than 15 years ago. That being the case, I do not have a “drug connection” Your 5 paragraph rant about how I and my “drug connections” are more dangerous than you and your proudly illegally carried gun is just empty rhetoric based on your initial lie.
We can spar and attack and call names. That is blogging.I think about the only thing you and I share is our contempt for each other. But you have sunk to a new depth here. Post proof of your allegations as to me. Otherwise, among the many other contemptible things you are, you are also a liar.
Let me say that again. You are a liar.
If you are anything in real life as you are on this forum, it is little wonder you feel compelled to carry a gun. I think you must see or make enemies everywhere you go. A personality such as yours must need “defending” on an almost constant basis. Even at a picnic with people you disagree with politically as was the case at the first meet up. You had “3 guns in easy reach” I think you said.
I could attack further. I could involve your son as you seem to involve mine in the debate. My son is only 11 and so cannot post much his own ideals. He is still forming them. I’ll just note for all that read here that you and your son did not address the questions asked of you here. You attacked me. My arguements against you are backed by your own words. Your son bowed out and you sank to defamation of charachter.
What I am going to do now is ignore you Hank. I’ll take the same tac with your son. (You’ve no idea how popular THAT idea is) I will require the same of you. You can call me names at your leisure. I’ll not answer because I don’t need to. You simply are not worthy of the effort as you continually define yourself quite well. Post lies about me again and you will answer for it outside of this forum.—–
Thanks Damoon, I needed that.
Mr Price?
Shortly after your second to last post, I emailed you. I advised you that your post as to my recreational drug use
“Take J R”….”he has admitted to occasional drug use”
was an outright lie and invited you to prove otherwise. I told you I did not wish to give your lie further air by refuting it. I told you that any further lies about me on your part would be cause for me to seek my options under the law. I also advised you that a gentleman would admit to his lie and apologize publicly. I have not heard back. Since then you have attacked me further and included my son.
And so sir, the gloves are off.
I do not use drugs. I have never used drugs aside from a few instances more than 15 years ago. That being the case, I do not have a “drug connection” Your 5 paragraph rant about how I and my “drug connections” are more dangerous than you and your proudly illegally carried gun is just empty rhetoric based on your initial lie.
We can spar and attack and call names. That is blogging.I think about the only thing you and I share is our contempt for each other. But you have sunk to a new depth here. Post proof of your allegations as to me. Otherwise, among the many other contemptible things you are, you are also a liar.
Let me say that again. You are a liar.
If you are anything in real life as you are on this forum, it is little wonder you feel compelled to carry a gun. I think you must see or make enemies everywhere you go. A personality such as yours must need “defending” on an almost constant basis. Even at a picnic with people you disagree with politically as was the case at the first meet up. You had “3 guns in easy reach” I think you said.
I could attack further. I could involve your son as you seem to involve mine in the debate. My son is only 11 and so cannot post much his own ideals. He is still forming them. I’ll just note for all that read here that you and your son did not address the questions asked of you here. You attacked me. My arguements against you are backed by your own words. Your son bowed out and you sank to defamation of charachter.
What I am going to do now is ignore you Hank. I’ll take the same tac with your son. (You’ve no idea how popular THAT idea is) I will require the same of you. You can call me names at your leisure. I’ll not answer because I don’t need to. You simply are not worthy of the effort as you continually define yourself quite well. Post lies about me again and you will answer for it outside of this forum.—–
The double post is unintentional. But I’ll galdly second it.
Hank,I am really sorry that you have found it necessary to convince those of us unsure before, that you are, indeed, an asshole.
JR has you completely pegged. He has done a masterful job of describing this truth on this thread.
I have wanted to think otherwise, but you leave no alternatives. I hope you enjoy the rest of what I expect is a pretty miserable life.
Please don’t bother the rest of us with your pathetic nonsense.
Have never loved ya - you pathetic asshole,DD
Dammit, I posted a brilliant reply to Hank last night and it was lost when the blog went down. I’ll try again.
Hank, wanna back up that statement about JR’s drug use? A link, a bone dig, whatever? I mean, surely you wouldnt say something THAT outrageous without proof… would you?
Go ahead, point out that JR’s defenders are part of the “liberal circle jerk” that you and gmc love to howl about. It doesnt change the truth.
The cold hard truth is that YOU admitted you carry illegally. And that the gun laws are inane and you and yours are essentially above the gun laws.
“Now before you get your liberal panties in a wad, I admit that on occasion I might be in violation of some inane local gun control ordinance. I don’t care.”
And you and gmc want to know why we get nervous about gun laws? Because you and yours think the laws dont apply to you. ANY of them.
That is the best argument for taking away your guns that I have ever heard. It is indeed the reason why sane gun carriers like XXX get painted with the same brush reserved for above the law types such as you.
Even your son agreed that you carry illegally and now he does too. You must be ever so proud to have created a new generation that is above the law.
To pounce on JR with a FALSE accusation about drug use, drug culture, and being a bad parent is WAAAAAAYYYYY lower than anyone has yet stooped on this blog. I dont hear him advocating that he is above ANY law, and accordingly I dont think he is teaching his son that either.
However, we have the evidence here in writing about you and the lessons you have taught your son. That gun laws are inane. That they dont apply to “responsible” people like you.
“Unable to win in the arena of ideas these pervaeyors of situational ethics must make the conservative position illegal.”
So….unable to ABOLISH ALL REGULATIONS ON ALL FIREARMS… you think it is ok to disobey those “inane” gun laws? Hmmm… I dont like some laws either. Can I just declare myself above it all and disobey the law with impunity? Or are only you and your son allowed such priveleges.
I guess since you support breaking the law, especially those laws that you are judge and jury on, you wont mind supporting the illegal immigrants. I mean, when people are above the law, they are above the law, right? Or is it just you who is above the law.
Lets see. Self admitted illegal carry PROOF is met with a drug use and drug culture smear. I guess when the facts show you are a law breaker, the best thing to do is smear those who dare to point out the truth. Hey any lie will do when you are caught.
Typical conservative spin. Just using JR as a hypothetical example, but you manage to paint him as a drug user, a kingpin of the drug culture, and an excuse for your own lawbreaking. Way to go hank. Karl rove must be so proud of you and your lies.
Nice christian post there hank. How many souls did you win with your hypocricy and your lies? Jesus must surely be weeping. You are NOT the example ANY child should follow.
Gosh, where is mr. prosecutor, gmc, when you need to ask him a question, a la nathan.
Should people who voluntarily confess to violating the “inane” concealed carry laws be prosecuted? yes or no?
Just some more “law and order” conservatives, I guess, huh?
“WE EDITORS: HOW ABOUT A LITTLE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING HERE? A BLOGGER ON THIS THREAD HAS STATED THAT SOME LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE INVOLVED IN CRIMINAL CONDUCT. WHAT IS A NEWSPAPER FOR IF NOT TO EXPOSE THIS SORT OF ACTIVITY!?”
I didn’t (and don’t) have time to really participate in the debates these days, but I second this call. Get Potter or somebody on it, if you don’t mind, folks.
Hank,
I agree with you about gun rights, I own an arsenal and I have used deadly force in the past to kill an armed intruder. I don’t think that the government has a right to take away my means of self defense and if they try to do so then I will become an outlaw. But, I think that you were out of bounds in implying that JR is some kind of a drug fiend and questioning his parenting skills is just plain bad form!
Maybe hank just is confused between JR and his idol Rush. Maybe it is the RUSH drug culture, you know the one reponsible for the ills of society, not anything with JR.
Of course, JR is not a rich, fat, thrice divorced, admitted drug user in a diversion program for illegal drug activity. JR is also smart and cute and funny and a great parent.
But I can see how hank confuses the two… sheesh.
I do agree though that the RUSH drug culture is not an example for ANYONE’s kid.
I think the idea that local law enforcement could be involved in illegal activities, and advising others how to commit illegal carry is kind of a dog bites man story, Rage.
Kinda like Ben’s dandilions or governor leadership’s relationship with the allegrucci family.
Non story.
Dear JR,
I haven’t read your personal email to me, so I’m at somewhat of a loss as how to respond. The email I use on this BLOG is my home email and I didn’t get home until late last night and I haven’t read my home emails since yesterday morning. I based my comments about your recreational drug use on a post of yours a few months ago. In my recollection you implied that you sometimes use recreational drugs. This weekend I will search the archives and try and find it. If I don’t find it I will apologize. If I find it and determine that I have inferred something that you obviously did not imply I will apologize.
As far as your personal email to me I will look for it tonight and respond accordingly.
Gentle people,
I am amused and somewhat confused by the feigned indignation, outrage and vitriol over my last couple of posts. I based my comments about JR’s drug use on a post that I recollect several months ago in which he implied that he was under the influence of an illegal substance. I’ve slept since. I may be wrong. If so I will apologize to JR.
Now I probably don’t have to remind you gentle people of all nasty, profane and uncalled for names that I have been called, for no more than daring to bring a conservative viewpoint to your little BLOG. I’ve been called a bigot, a fascist, a Nazi, homophobe, etc., etc., so on and so forth. I believe that it was JR (again I will apologize if I’m mistaken) that even compared my son and me to pig shit that he scrapes off the bottom of his shoe. So you must understand that on occasions I might get confused as to the location of the imaginary liberal line that I’ve seemed to stepped over in your minds. It changes location depending on the subject and which side your on in the liberal, situational ethics mind.
Ian,
I beg to differ with you. I suggest that you read my comments about JR’s son rather than merely respond to the bedwetting liberal’s outrage over them. I said, “I sometimes wonder how JR’s little one will turn out. In my opinion he doesn’t have much of an example to follow.” I’ve met JR. I’ve read his posts on some of the things he has claimed to ‘teach’ his son. My concern for the example he is setting for his son is sincere. I’ll admit that I should keep certain opinions to myself, but that doesn’t seem to restrict any one else on this BLOG. I disagree with your contention that I was “out of bounds”. First of all I would know nothing of JR’s son if JR didn’t bring him to the BLOG. If he doesn’t want comments about his son he should refrain from using him as an example to make his points on this BLOG. All I know about the example he is setting for is son I learned on this BLOG. Furthermore I disagree with the premise of your remarks. I never said JR was a ‘drug fiend’ nor did I comment on his parenting skills. Again, I merely showed concern for the example he was setting. I’ve never made any derogatory comments about JR’s son.
KFG,
Gentle lady, I know that you think I’m some sort of arch criminal for carrying a gun, but in most places it’s only illegal to carry it concealed. In those places it’s mostly a misdemeanor to carry one concealed or hidden in your car. In fact, if someone were to try and drag me out of my car and beat me to death with a tire iron, I would probably not even be charged with a misdemeanor if I shot them to death with my ‘illegal’ gun. Nola Funston has never brought charges against the few criminals, like me, that have defended themselves with illegal firearms. So, my dear, you seem to live in an imaginary little liberal world where any one that disagrees with your lifestyle is a homophobe and any one that disagrees with your ideology must be a criminal. But, in the real world I have a right to my opinions and I have an obligation to defend myself. In fact, having a gun in the console of my pickup is no more serious than the failure to come to a complete stop at a stop sign or an improper lane change.
DD,
I tried to come up with a response to you, but failed. Maybe it would be easier if you came up with an original comment. Sorry, maybe later.
I still love you guys, even if you are predictable!
Hank
—–
“Non story.”
Yeah, you’re probably right, KFG, particularly when you consider the credibility of the source.
KFG
Haven’t gone anywhere; I just noticed this broohah.
1) I’ll take no position on JR’s alleged drug use; I have no knowledge of same, nor would I accuse him of same absent that knowledge. I think it’s a low blow, and while I have my own issues with JR, I won’t go there.
2) Admission, alone, a basis for prosecution? No, it’s not. A defendant’s admission, without a corpus delecti at the very least, will not support a prosecution. So Hank can confess to his heart’s content, but without more, there’s no risk of prosecution; same would not be upheld in court.
3) Again, based entirely upon Hank’s statements, it is impossible for me conclude he has in fact carried illegally (absent the “confession” noted earlier). Carrying a gun in a car, even hidden in a console, is not illegal in Kansas absent a local ordinance. Truth be told, in fact I have probably transported in violation of Wichita’s ordinance in driving to and from the range. While I don’t advise same, it hardly qualifies as “carrying illegally” in the spirit of that statute. NONE of us are free from inadvertant and technical violations of laws. Those who take controlled prescription drugs, for example, do so when they put their pills in daily dose containers rather than the prescription bottles, for example, but I would not prosecute same. The proverbial “california stop” at the stop sign, etc.
Not every technical violation calls for a prosecution.
This has been thoroughly entertaining. You know you’re in deep shit when you bring a blogger’s family members into the mudslinging. JR at his worst can be arrogant and snotty, but there’s no reason to make an inference that his kid is gonna be a drug abuser. Mr. Price did not openly state that, but that of course is what he logically inferred when he essentially called JR a druggie and that being a druggie, his son would take after his example of being a druggie. I would be most interested as to see the post in which JR admitted to being a drug-abuser. If Mr. Price can not produce the aforementioned post, then JR’s accusations of Mr. Price slandering him holds true.
Razzberries to you, Mr. Price! =(
whoops! I mean libel.
Slander is spoken, in print it’s libel. =)
And your son is incomparable to my old G.I. Joe action figures! They’re special forces. They can take both you and your son down to Chinatown!
Hahahaha!!!
Well, I missed this one! I’ve been tied up and haven’t been following very closely.
Hank, I can’t believe you stooped so low. Of course, I dissagree with most of what you say, but a guy is entitled to his opinion, and after meeting you, I found a grudging respect. You seemed like a nice guy. But your unwarranted attack on JR and his young son goes clear off the scale. It’s a sad thing when you have to resort to libel to try to make your point. To use one of my favorite discriptive terms, I’d say it was downright Chickenshit.
Hank, upthread, you said that you’d do a bonedig this weekend and if you found you were wrong, you’d appoligize. Considering the magnitude of your statement, I’d think you’d do your bonedig NOW.
But considering the massive nature of your ego and your continual arrogance, I’d be very surprised if you ever appoligize…it’s not in your nature.
If I were JR, I’d consider sueing you for libel.
You sir, have no honor.
Damoon, Ian, kfg, rage, DD
Thank you.
For you and everyone else I post this.
Another poster has alledged that several months ago, I posted that I was at that time posting under the influence of an illegal substance.
He cites one post. One. From that he alledges my recreational use of illegal drugs. From one post. And he ran with it for 5 paragraphs and made it the center of his arguement. From one post.
I think I could quit right there. But I stand accused. You’ve stood for me and you’ve the right to my full disclosure. It may be just a blog but I take my crediblity to you very seriously.
Friends? I honestly do not remember that one post. It would not be because I did not make it. I may have. It is not because I was in an altered state of conscious that I don’t remember it either. See the reason I know that is I racked my brain trying to figure out where this charge could come from and the best I could figure is this. Because I have used illegal drugs on 3 or 4 occasions in the past few months. They were illegal in so much as they were not prescribed to me. On one occasion, I used one of my late fathers pain pills. On maybe 3 others I have used tranquilizers that were prescribed for him and not me. My Mom gave me the extra pills after my Dad died. That is the extent of my “habit” and the source of my “connection”. I may have made reference to it at the time.I doubt it. If I did so it was tongue in cheek. Most likely, I could see myself making a remark like that to draw the outrage of one or more of the easily roused morality police. You know, the folks who are Perry Mason with some laws and Rooster Cogburn with others. The same sort of folk who can turn one offhand remark into “exibitions into mindless nirvana” are occasionally fun to bait. Yes friends, especially early in my “career”, I have been guilty of trolling.
I am the worlds worst father. It’s true. I say that because I cannot know if I AM the worlds worst father or not. And I am certainly NOT the worlds best father. If I thought that I wouldn’t try to do any better. And I do try.
Some folks might think I’m a poor role model because I’m not modeling to their liking. I applaud their concern. I welcome their judgement. I’m sorry if I don’t meet their agenda.
Most folks here are older than me. Their kids are grown or they don’t have kids. That gives me a perspective on some threads that some may never have known or only remember.
I mention my son occasionally on the blog. He posted on the blog just once. He wanted to say that arena design B looked like a “pacman”. He was fascinated to read his words right up there next to the others. We may try that again sometime.
At 11 my son is not into politics. He is frustrated I am into it so much. I have to look out for him for now.
When the jrROTC inducted my son without telling me, I mentioned that. When injustice and cruelty and laws are leveled against one persons idea of a family, I might mention that as a single dad I don’t exactly represent a traditional family; and wonder whether the next round of who is and is not a family might grow to include me and my son.
When some talk of “necessary wars” and “nuking them into the stone age” I might mention that their vision of America is not one I can teach my son to fight for. And I would mean it.When some want to bring their religion to my kids school, I might post I never exposed my kid to my take on religion until he brought the subject to me at the urging of someone else.
The future we make for this nation and this world is my sons future, or lack thereof. I feel I owe him inclusion in matters important, if only by my advocacy here.
I have been known to engage in particularly nasty invective.This was especially true early on. It is generally reserved for those who do the same. Am I proud of it? Not especially. Will I stop? No. This forum is what it is. Politics is what it is.
Finally, I have never to my knowledge used a wild baseless accussation to attack anyones character. On occasions I have been wrong in an assumption. And when I’ve been made aware of it I’ve owned up.
I am so very proud to have good folks who respect me and my words. Please know I will always try to be worthy of that respect.
Jay Rimel
I was a long time typing that last. My thanks and the above also to XXX and CrusaderX.
Maybe we should throw Hank in the lake!
I guess good kids are in the eye of the beholder, my kids have never been in the military, they’ve never shot a gun, and they are not Christian. They are liberal in their politics, but they are respectful of others who don’t agree with their views. They aren’t condesending or judgmental. They recycle, drive small cars, live simply, do a lot of charity work, and generally try to make the world a better place.I guess we all have our own ideas of what makes us proud.
Knowing you, JR, I’ll bet your kid is going to grow up and make you proud, too.
Kudos to JR being a single dad. That’s definitely a rarity in today’s world. Lotta dead-beat dads out there, it’s good to meet one who actually gives a damn about his offspring.
You’ve just moved up a notch in my book. Right now you’re at Notch 1. =)
Looks like Hank and Boy Wonder aren’t doing so well in the arena of public opinion.
Good thing they only come down from Mt Olympus to “enlighten” us poor mortals and not to win popularity contests.
“Maybe we should throw Hank in the lake! :)”
I am a relative newcomer to this state, is it customary to throw people in the drink? JR, Rage, XXX, I had no idea that you gents were such ruffians! rotflmosrfao
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
In fairness,
I have received email from my accuser. He promises to post evidence or publicly apologize. He also told me to be well.
I’m trying to be tolerant. I must be on drugs.
Ian, being thrown into the lake is a rite of passage that all newcomers in Kansas must go through. Be sure to come to the picnic…I’ll consider it a privelige to help you out with this interesting, but little-known rule.
This is codified in state law and should be taken care of at the earliest opportunity, Right guys?
You know it X. Ian come on out.
Why did you tell him?? It’s so much easier when they don’t see it coming!!
Dear JR,
I did not find the post of yours that led me to believe, assume or infer that you had admitted using drugs.
I apologize for my remarks.
Furthermore, after reading my post again I realize that even if I did find a post of yours admitting to drug use that my remarks would have been out of line. I should have tried to make my point in a different way.
I sincerely apologize for any pain or distress I may have caused you.
Be well.
Hank Price
“DD:I tried to come up with a response to you, but failed. Maybe it would be easier if you came up with an original comment. Sorry, maybe later.”
My original comment to you, Hank, is that while you apologize (which for most offending people is a good thing), in your case, it is far too little, far too late. Please go somewhere else. Thank you.
Hank,I forgot, your pathetic asshole!
Sorry, got the gramatical part wrong, shoud be:”Hank, You are a pathetic asshole!”
Shame on me for getting that wrong.
Not original, I will (might) concede, but profoundly TRUE!
DD, you’re onto something here.
I nominate Hank for the position of “Blog Asshole”.
He’s earned the title.
Hank and I have tangled many times, but I do give him snaps (heheh) for apologizing and admitting that his comments were out of line.
Ian, we dont have any water out here so there are few lakes we can use for dunking. Cedar Bluff was a great lake until Hays and governor leadership and the water office decided to drain it
Now we just throw people in a tank of whiskey. You know the old saying, “whiskey is for drinkin’, water is for fighin’ over.”
Hank,One brief comment: Even if JR HAD made some casual admission of drug use, your comments would STILL have been completely out of line. That’s self-evident.
Never mind, I see you already said that. My bad.
OK, it’s time to forgive. Hank does have SOME redemming value afterall. He is very kind to his animal friends and he is a dandy neighbor. Everyone makes mistakes, Hank just happens to make a little more than his share. Chalk it up to the weggie that cuts off the blood to his brain when he gets his wingnut panties in a wad.
We still love ya, Hank!
“Chalk it up to the weggie that cuts off the blood to his brain when he gets his wingnut panties in a wad.
“We still love ya, Hank!
Sorry Damoon, the Hankster, proved himself to be 1) a hipocrite AND 2) a liar; he literally drug his d*** in the dirt. And while he loves animals, I believe, he would do better to treat his fellow animals a little better. Getting along with others is not a bad thing, Hank, you might try it, sometime.
Hank?
Friends?
I struggled a long time over what to do with this.
I’d first like to tell you about what a post like Hank has now apologized for can do.
I read through his allegations on me with my mouth wide open. I was honestly incredulous and angry and hurt.There are folks who I do not know coming to a meet up which I have been promoting. My first sense which I emailed to Kfg was “I can’t cancel that meetup but I can’t attend it. What will people think of me?”
But that was just the start. I have something of a respected voice here. I began to really try and figure what could be the source of such an allegation against me. You can see that in my earlier post.
Late last night, Hank emailed that if he was wrong he would apologize. I gave him credit that as you can see upthread.
Wet phone lines and other issues kept me off the blog most of the day. I got an Email apology from Hank and I see it also upthread.
I accept that apology.
Personally, I’d like this to just go away. It has gotten beyond this thread and onto others. I can’t credibly address issues if I am myself an issue.
For my defenders, thanks.
For Damoon, you are right. It is time to move past this. No one wants that more than me.
Hank? You went way too far. I think you know that now. I respect you apologizing publicly. As you said in your email, you are pretty hard to ignore. Probably I can’t do that.
It will be up to your discretion about your posts in the future for others to decide your credibility.
I can forgive. I’d like everyone else to forgive. It’s up to you to make us forget.
Aww, I missed the party.I would like to point out that publicly apologizing (and being sincere about it) for saying something out of line is much, much more difficult than simply disappearing or picking a different name to post under. I think most people would do the latter. Props, man.$0.02
Can’t really argue with that, Tara.
OK, “I” still love ya, Hank.
I also have great respect for you JR. The one thing you should do is not take insults personal. When someone does something hurtful, it says so much more about them than it says about you. Those of us who have met you and truly enjoy your intellegence and your wit know the kind of person you are, and in the end, what you think about yourself is all that really matters anyway.