Many questions remain about how NFL player-turned-Army Ranger Pat Tillman came to die in Afghanistan in 2004, making the Army’s newly announced criminal investigation a welcome step. One thing is certain: If Tillman’s death wasn’t criminal, the Pentagon’s mishandling of its aftermath surely has been.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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37 Comments
Where is an open thread when you need one? I know this isn’t directly related to Tillman. When you consider how many of your liberties we’ve given up because of this war and the misinformation that has some from the administration it fits.
A retired school teacher tries to pay off his credit card and it triggers homeland security looking into his income. When I first read about this, I thought the amount paid would be significant. It was a whopping $6,000 that prompted attention from homeland security to his bank accounts.
http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=RAISEALARM-02-28-06
Sounds like teachers are under attack from Bush, why shouldn’t they fight back?
I fear I could consider myself lucky to be half the man he was in the 27 all-too-short years of his life. What a tremendous loss this Country has sustained with Pat Tillman’s death.
That is not to belittle the deaths or wounds of any of the others. You should consider them all your brothers and sisters.
His very success in the Army facilitated his death. I cannot help but think that even if he knew the outcome… he wouldn’t have changed a thing.
In closing, Henry V’s remarks are perfect for Pat Tillman. Henry was king of england in 1415 when he was stranded in France with 3000 men. They walked for 18 days trying to find a way home but also trying to avoid a French army the size of 70,000 troops. Henry had to face them. His men were petrified praying to God to save their souls. Henry went against custom and spoke to every man that night and told them that they would win. before the battle as a rallying vry he said this and i think they are perfect for Pat Tillman – a man Henry, the greatest solider ever, would have been proud of.
“This story shall the good man teach his son;And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,From this day to the ending of the world,But we in it shall be remember’d;We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;For he to-day that sheds his blood with meShall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,This day shall gentle his condition:And gentlemen in England now a-bedShall think themselves accursed they were not here,And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaksThat fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.”
The military under Bush leadership initially LIED about the events surrounding Tillman’s death. He didn’t die in battle; he died from so-called “friendly fire” from trigger-happy, less-than-optimally-trained troops put into a shituation they weren’t prepared for.
The military also LIED about the video-taped rescue of Jessica Lynch, flattening doors with battering rams etc. when the Iraqis were treating her wounds, not imprisoning her as she herself admits.
The military LIED about their illegal use of chemical weapons (burning white phosphorous) in the attack of Fallujah claiming that it was only for “illumination.” Heh, right. Illumination that was also really good at burning little children to the consistency of fried bacon . . .
BritKan–
I don’t think Mr. Tillman is “holding his manhood cheap.” I don’t think he’s holding anything at all. Because you see he’s dead.
It’s funny how pro-war types always trot out that St. Crispian speech from “Henry V,” but they always ignore the dialogue that appears in the scene directly preceeding it.
“But if the cause (for war)be not good, then the King himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those arms and legs and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the Latter Day and cry all, ‘We died at such a place’ — some swearing, some crying for a surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left. . . . Now, if these men do not die well (justly), it will be a black matter for the King that led them to it.”
If there is a God in Heaven, and I believe there is, it’ll be a black matter for Bush on Judgement Day.
As an ex-Army guy, I feel bad that Tilman died in friendly fire. But also knowing that the average GI Joe has to have at least one hitch behind him and some rank and experience before he can even get into the Rangers, one overlooked problem why the Army let such a tyro go through Ranger training. The obvious answer is, of course, the Army is as political as anything else and letting him become a Ranger made the Army look good. Same reason Elvis came out a sergeant after only two years. Celebritiy counts, even in uniform.
Made the Army look good, that is, until he was killed. Then it was cover-up city. I sort of suspect his amateur standing had something to do with his death and the Army did’t want anyone to find out how it had screwed up.
didn’t
Pat Tillman was also against the war in Iraq (he died in Afghanistan).
‘Ann Colter’s contempt was directed at a September 25 San Francisco Chronicle story reporting that former NFL star and Army Ranger war hero Pat Tillman, who was killed in Afghanistan last year, believed the US war on Iraq was “f***ing illegal” and counted Noam Chomsky among his favorite authors. It must have been quite a moment for Coulter, who upon Tillman’s death described him in her inimitably creepy fashion as “an American original–virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be.” She tried to discredit the story as San Francisco agitprop, but this approach ran into a slight problem: The article’s source was Pat Tillman’s mother, Mary.’
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051024/zirin
And why do we give a rat’s patoot about anything weird Ann has to say?
We don’t, GMM, we don’t.
But I thought readers might be interested in the fact that when Pat Tillman’s death gave Bush a chance to address the Cardinals fans on the Jumbotron at the stadium right before the election, they were using him for their propoganda, not honoring his beliefs.
Proudlib – i dont support this war for one minute. 5 million brits protested the war before it started. We did more in one day than any liberal did in America. We said on election day in 2000 that bush was going to invade iraq. fox news did a segemnt after the 2000 election mocking at the british press and its readers. we were right.
I have two friends in Iraq and they say that the america troops are a joke. Shooting anything that moves or raiding peoples hoomes at 3am when they are the people you need for intelligence. the fact that the police force is full of insurgents and that the iraqis wont tell because of this treatment. Playing baseball or football is not appropriate in a society that you are occupying. Its bin laden arguement. America wants to rule with materialism and american culture.
the number one sport in iraq is soccer – or as they call it football. they know who real madrid, inter milan, liverpool and juventus are. they dont want a boston red sox hat or a green bay packers jersey so why force it on them.
The statement that the us soldier is the best in the world is a myth. The SAS found bin laden in tora bora and had him surrounded with 4 groups. they phoned the american delta force and navy seals who were too slow to stay with the SAS. they told them where bin laden was located. politics said the americans must catch them. so what do the delta force do thats right send the afghans. 2 weeks of hard work from the SAS to find and surround him is lost because of the joke of the us soldier.
thats a fact. its not nice.truth hurts. but lets remember as hillary clinton says about 2008..Hillary : they dont want to talk about their president so they have to change the subject. they have so much to answer for and theres no end in site. They dont want people to think about the important elections this november in the house or the senate. i think we’ll pick up some seats in the house and senate. Hopefully we can gain control of one or both houses
We as a party must focus on the job before us. We must prevent this administration and their allies in congress from inflicting further damage on this country. We have to start pulling together as a country and end this right wing ideological tear they have been on. We need to start looking at facts and evidence and making decisions that are in the best interests of the America people. get back to the centre where we can live and breath easily and get america back on the right track.’
“I have two friends in Iraq and they say that the america troops are a joke.”
Well, I have two friends in Britain, and they say your dental hygiene is pathetic.
Wow–substantive argument there, Todd. I hear that French folks have body odor, too.
So I guess it’s safe to assume you’re okay with anonymous anecdotes about how our “troops are a joke”?
Why am I not surprised?
“Shooting anything that moves or raiding peoples hoomes at 3am when they are the people you need for intelligence.”
The above is what we train our troops to do. They are not a police force or a political body. I would agree that we need other methods of doing this job. If the country were stable enough that is – which paradoxically will not happen so long as we stay there. This basic problem is why we are stuck there now. I am not sure what the answer should be. This is a mess of the highest magnitude — no argument from me on that one.
Maybe if Tillman hadn’t signaled his location by popping smoke, his fellow soldiers might have shot some where else.I’m betting if Tillman knew he was going to be shot up by his commrades, he’d have kept his butt home!Where have all the soldiehttp://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060307/ts_usatoday/8000desertduringiraqwarrs gone.
I suspect the death of a soldier in this same situation who wasn’t a professional football player wouldn’t be getting this kind of attention. His death is regrettable but no more and no less than any other soldier.
Okay, thanks for the clarification, BritK. Lots of good information there.
I have to quibble with your assertion that Brits did more to stop war than we did. They have a much more flexible system for getting rid of their paramount leader (the PM) than we do.
And Blair, the lying pr*ck, is still there. But then so’s Bush.
My son was at the London School of Economics for a semester when they had a big rally downtown. I regret we can’t get that kind of a response here.
Or we didn’t used to be able to . . . things seem to be changing.
I agree too that the British troops are better trained. We got the whiz-bang technology though, don’t we.
Too bad it doesn’t do much when you fighting a couple of guys in the back of a pick-up truck.
Wow Todd how very typical of you. Brit says things of substance and backed by facts. You don’t happen to like what Brit says ( you can’t dispute it or even try) so you launch a short winded personal attacktotally unrealted to the thread. And even THAT is based on a tired sterotype.
Hey Todd? We are taking of heroes real and made here. Posts like yours dirty the name of both.
I would like to know more about Pat Tilman. I am very grateful for the links posted here to learn more about him.
I must confess, I could not uderstand why a man so blessed would give up so much to go fight for his country. I guess his blessings themselves made him feel obligated to give something back. I’d guess that is true of many of those who volunteer to fight our wars for us. I guess it has in some way ever been thus.
I welcome this new investigation into how this man died. It is owed to him, his family, and to our collective consciuos as a nation. That is the kind of “poster boy” I suspect he would have wanted to be, if he wanted to be a poster boy. Which I do not think was ever in his mind.
It is strange. I did not know about the Coulter thing. I must go read that link. I DO remember Rush Limbaugh and Sean hannity repeatedly invoking the name of Pat Tillman in the days just after his death. I guess the Coulter link may explai why they are not speaking his name now. He doesn’t work as a poster boy for them anymore.
In the final scenes of Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911, he mentions that it is often the least of us that is sent to defend the nation. He posits that for their service we at least owe them never to send them into harms way unless it is absolutely necessary.
Every single one of us should be railing along with the Tilman family to get to the bottom of things here. It just isn’t as simple as putting an “I support the troops” sticker an your car anymore. Really, it never should ve been
It’s a sad fact that people die from friendly fire. Combat, especially in a firefight makes you do things without thinking. It’s a lot easier than you may think to run in front of a bullet. The Army lied about the incident and then tried to cover it up. That’s just typical and that’s the way it’s always been.
What may look like a stupid mistake when you consider it in the safety of your own home and country may not be so clear-cut in a shoot-out.
I don’t believe he ran in front of a bullet, the bullets were directed at him.
You are a vet X, I am not. YOur point is well taken.But this thread is not so much about why he died in an accident. It is about why that fact was covered up and why and who could have gained or saved face because of it.
Pat Tilman is just one of many. But folks who did everything up to and including lying fronted this soldiers death as a justification for the war. That someone who did not have to would go fight it.They put a lot of light on him.
Yeah, accidents happen. But when they do you best learn from them.
non-issue
Uh Cru X? You are posting all threads with “who cares” or “non issue” Are you ok?
Yeah I’m fine, im just giving my opinions of those threads I believe are a non-issue.
CruX,
PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE AND SLOWLY STEP AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER!
V.L.R.B!!
Ah! If it isn’t my favorite self-hating Cubano! and how was your day, friend?
CruX,
Cubano BLANCO please; you musn’t leave out the most important part!
V.L.R.B!!
Well so many posts to so many threads with a no cares jist. It just worried me.
Now how could I have forgotten that? Shame on me for forgetting that everything that goes on in your head is skin-hue motivated. :)
JR,Relax, don’t get your panties in a twist! ;)
Race is much more than just skin deep. I know that we all bleed red but rats, snakes and monkeys also bleed red.
V.L.R.B!!
Was that your justification for the 500 years of Spanish / Portuguese oppression of the native peoples of central, south America, the carribean and the South Pacific? Not much of an argument there.
Ian,You said before that your uncle fought in the Waffen SS? How on earth did your predecessors end up in Cuba?
Proudlib, I cant believe you said this:
“And Blair, the lying pr*ck, is still there. But then so’s Bush.”
Good grief lib, dont you know it is god’s will to have them in office? Both say god speaks to them and tells them what to do.
I cant believe you would criticize god’s chosen War Daddies.