"Anybody that votes for an amnesty bill deserves to be branded with a scarlet letter, ‘A’ for amnesty, and they need to pay for it at the ballot box in November," Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, ranted at a House Republican gathering Thursday. But the Senate immigration bill — which Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., supports — seems a reasonable balance between dealing with security concerns and with the reality that we are not going to deport 12 million illegal immigrants. Nor could our economy handle that. The bill would increase border enforcement and penalties for employers who hire illegal workers. And in order to become a U.S. citizens, current immigrants would have to be here 11 years, have a clean record and a steady job, pay a $2,000 fine and back taxes, and understand English and U.S. civics.
As Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., noted: "This word ‘amnesty’ is a code word. It is a code word to try to smear good-faith legislation."
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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37 Comments
What a shame Mr Spector fails to realize that Americans recognize the code words “Good Faith Legislation” Strange how the term “Amnesty” was their own choice the last three times they legitimzed criminal immigration, and now that everyone is sick and tired of it…it’s a “Code” word.
At least today’s immigrants do not come here with the intent of exterminating the current population. That’s more than I can say for those of a few hundread years ago.
Absolutely this bill is amnesty.
Every attempt now being made to address this issue is de-facto amnesty.
Anything short of deportation for all illegals is amnesty.
Every day that illegal aliens remain, they are giving birth to anchor babies (children born in the U. S. of illegals ) What? We can’t deport the kids? Oh well then I guess the parents will have to stay.
We are fully capable of deorting these people. It’s made pretty easy when they parade the fact that they are breaking the law. The assertion that our economy could not handle this only assumes we want to continue the trend of the rich getting ever richer on the backs of ever cheaper labor. Personally, I’d say that economy could use a shake up.
We can solve this problem or we can keep talking about solving it while it gets worse.
Deport all illegal aliens and their anchor babies. Now.
I agree with trying to get a good amnesty type program in place, but I seriously doubt that it will curtail the illegal immigration problem.
When they did it to 4 million back in the 80’s, they thought it was the end of it. Now we are talking about 12 million. Another round of amnesty will probably encourage more illegal immigration.
We will most likely be visiting this issue again in 20 years, probably for 20 million people.
The filthy traitors deserve nuch more than just a scarlet letter!
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
I tend to agree Joe. It would seem that there should be some way to encourage economic development south of the border; that would reduce pressure. The fact that the migration is so dangerous and that so many die trying says that conditions there are desparate.
Immigration is a hot-button political issue in Europe also.
Anybody up on why that is the case there?
DD,
Maybe this will answer you question regarding Europe.
“Last year I wrote an article about how Swedish society is disintegrating and is in danger of collapsing, at least in certain areas and regions. The country that gave us Bergman, ABBA and Volvo could become known as the Bosnia of northern Europe. The “Swedish model” would no longer refer to a stable and peaceful state with an advanced economy, but to a Eurabian horror story of utopian multiculturalism, socialist mismanagement and runaway immigration. Some thought I was exaggerating, and that talk of the possibility of a future civil war in Sweden was pure paranoia. Was it?
In a new sociological survey (pdf in Swedish, with brief English introduction) entitled “Vi krigar mot svenskarna” (“We’re waging a war against the Swedes”), young immigrants in the troubled city of Malmö have been interviewed about why they are involved in crime. Although it is not stated, most of the immigrant perpetrators are Muslims. In one of the rare instances where the Swedish media actually revealed the truth, the newspaper Aftonbladet reported several years ago that 9 out of 10 of the most criminal ethnic groups in Sweden came from Muslim countries. This must be borne in mind whilst reading the following newspaper article:
Immigrants are “waging war” against Swedes through robbery
The wave of robberies the city of Malmö has witnessed during this past year is part of a “war against the Swedes.” This is the explanation given by young robbers from immigrant backgrounds when questioned about why they only rob native Swedes, in interviews with Petra Åkesson for her thesis in sociology. “I read a report about young robbers in Stockholm and Malmö and wanted to know why they rob other youths. It usually does not involve a lot of money,” she says. She interviewed boys between 15 and 17 years old, both individually and in groups.
Almost 90% of all robberies reported to the police were committed by gangs, not individuals. “When we are in the city and robbing we are waging a war, waging a war against the Swedes.” This argument was repeated several times. “Power for me means that the Swedes shall look at me, lie down on the ground and kiss my feet.” The boys explain, laughingly, that “there is a thrilling sensation in your body when you’re robbing, you feel satisfied and happy, it feels as if you’ve succeeded, it simply feels good.” “It’s so easy to rob Swedes, so easy.” “We rob every single day, as often as we want to, whenever we want to.” The immigrant youth regard the Swedes as stupid and cowardly: “The Swedes don’t do anything, they just give us the stuff. They’re so wimpy.” The young robbers do not plan their crimes: “No, we just see some Swedes that look rich or have nice mobile phones and then we rob them.”
Why do they hate the Swedes so much…”
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=19851#c0023http://www.rense.com/general69/frnc.htmhttp://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
I’ll give it a shot DD, terrorism, a class of people that are not citizen and over flowing the slums and low rent district, a growing number of angry and jobless that is reeking havoc on the social and economic structure of the country. Draining the job market of much needed jobs for the citizenry of the country.Overloading the social services, to the point that those in need are being turned away. I’m I close?
Writerdog,
I don’t know much about the subject and that was why I was asking. If your reasons are correct, those sound like some of the same concerns expressed in this country about our immigration problems.
I think it was Germany where conservative politicians are getting elected for their hard-line sentiments about their immigration problems.
I think it is interesting that some of the posters here whom I consider fairly liberal are adamantly against illegal immigration.
I have wondered too if the push from Mexico or the pull of the U.S. is greater or equal in spurring the immigration.
I know a guy who has a bottled water company. It is located in Mexico. His labor costs there are much cheaper than they would be here and he is ahead to locate his business in Mexico in spite of the additional product transportation costs.
Just some random thoughts on this issue/problem.
DD is talking about me as oe of those adamant anti-immigration liberals.
Most of my arguement as to this is already posted on the “flags” thread.
BUt I think there is more to add.
Look close at what is happening in Europe. That is gonna be us in a few years if we do not act.
Just today, illegal immigrants marched on city hall right here in Wichita. THis is reaction to just TALKIG about the problem. If we do not address this courageously and soon, these illegals will begin to resort to violence to maintain their right to stay.
I do not argue this out of racism or lack of compassion for these folks whose own country has so badly failed them. But we cannot fix their country for them and they cannot do it from here.
To add to that, JR:(from today’s Eagle item regarding students protesting)**Some of teens knew why they were marching; some didn’t, referring vaguely to protesting “a law.”**
And more:**A handful of white students walked in solidarity with the Hispanic marchers.
“Equal rights for all,” said Joe Buchanan, a senior at East. “Everybody deserves an equal share.”
He said if illegal immigrants were allowed to be here legally, more students would be able to go to school, more people would move here, and there would be more jobs.
“You gotta make a difference,” he said.**
Makes me wonder just how much Joe Buchanan knows about what’s going on. Think he’ll get a clue when he can’t get a summer job because it was already given to an illegal? What will he have to say when the schools are too crowded to get a decent education?
Have these kids studied history? Have they studied our laws or compared them with the laws of other countries? Do they understand the word “illegal” means not lawful?
And if illegals can get away with breaking the law, coming to this country and staying, why can’t I rob a bank when I’m short of money, can’t pay my rent and won’t have a place to live? Would that be okay?
It has nothing to do with racism. It has to do with our government representatives and administration closing their eyes to the law, and when they do open them, changing their laws after the fact. In fact, they encourage others to break the law.
I don’t think I mentioned the word “racism”, but I think it is intereeting that responders to my post did.
Illegal immigration is definitely a problem. I happen to think that deporting them all back to Mexico – surely an impossible job – would also fail to address the problem, and I am betting they would come back (wall or no wall).
I am not in favor of ceding the S.W. U.S. back to them. If the current situation continues, before long we will have functionally done that. I honestly don’t know what the answer is.
Yes, JR, you were one progressive I had in mind. I appreciate the fact that progressive/liberal people don’t always walk in lock-step like the dark side does. Our side is strengthened by individual differences.
To be truthful, I don’t know where I stand for sure on this issue. Something needs to be done about it. That much I know.
“interesting” – sorry about not previewing.
I wanted to comment on the law & order argument about illegal immigration. When a law is not enforced it effectively becomes immaterial. This certainly has happened with violators of our immigration laws. Who can blame them for thinking we don’t mean what we say.
The get-tough-on-illegals plan is not without its costs. The bill that the House has sponsored on this effort has as part of it a plan to build many new federal prisons to house illegals. Someone care to explain to me how we are going to save money with that plan?
Another question: Have you ever known anyone who has tried to pursue legal immigration? A friend of mine married a woman from Mexico. She had to apply for citizenship and it was a royal nightmare. This woman is a CPA and had advanced expertise in supply chains. An aircraft company here in town was tickled pink to hire her. Her getting citizenship was much harder.
Before 9/11 Bush had proposed making the department of immigration and naturalization (INS) seperate. That was well received by the hispanic community. Anyone familiar with what the perceived benefits were on that plan? (not sarcasm, but instead a sincere question)
The sad thing about this is that the “civics” they are asked to understand about America most Americans don’t even know.
I had a vietnamese girl in one of my classes ask almost everyone in the class to help her study with her citizenship test questions.
Almost everyone in the class couldn’t answer even half the questions.
Not to brag on myself, but I did.
They were basic things from elected and appointed officals to Consitutional questions.
The difficulty I was referring to in gaining citizenship was the extensive bureaucracy my acquaintence had to wade through — over and over again. My friend said that it seemed to him the whole months long process could have been hopelessly side-tracked if one of the INS employees was having a bad day.
The student protests today would be amusing if they were not so pathetic.
One, demonstrating at City Hall? Last time I looked, Wichita City Council has no say, vote, or ability to impact immigration.
Two, as previously noted, many of them had no idea what they were doing..just skipping school and making noise.
Three, I cannot find any sympathy for those who cry on Mother’s Day and Christmas because they cannot be with their families. They came here illegally, now are complaining that they cannot go back home and then return.
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand?
The problem with this whole thing is that they are here illegally. That means against the law if I am not mistaken. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could just take stuff from stores without paying and get the kid glove treatment that they get when using up all of our social services.
The wall needs to go up now. Then the ones that are here need to get registered or be deported.
America has made it to easy giving into them. We let them come here and don’t make them assimilate. The banks have bilingual ATMs, cable TV has special tiers for them, hell even most phone systems are bilingual. Make em learn the English language before they are allowed to come. Second education is your friend get one. And drop this whole diversity thing. Cinco de mayo is a Mexican holiday not an American one. You are in America if you don’t like it leave.
Any of you that have said “We need to deport all 12 million illegals”… please explain to all of us how you propose we identify each one, process their deportation, gather them up, contain them, place them in vehicles, and drive them across the border. Next, please explain how we will replace each of them with a willing American worker. Please provide cost and logistic proposals. It’s easy to be emotional and say “Get ‘em all outta her, dawgonit!” But proposing a REAL solution for deportation? I have not seen it.
Well Miller
We have the INS. Presumably they might REMEMBER how to do the job, even though they haven’t been encouraged to do it for a while.
Heavy fines for employers who hire illegals would be another good start. Dry up what draws them.
Encouraging the public to report illegals and those who hire them and then actually acting on the reports would help. I called the INS more than a dozen times when I had 15 of them living in a 2 room house 2 doors down. They didn’t actually laugh at me. But I got the feeling they didn’t take me very seriously.
I just thought of this one. How about a heavy tax…..say 35% on all wire money transfers with Mexico as the destination. Use the collected funds to address the problem and cut into the illegally earned and exported wages at the same time.
Americans used to do all the jobs these people are doing. That was before the wages were so sublimated that it no longer makes those jobs pay enough that Ameircans can live off of them. To say that Americans simply won’t do these jobs is a lie. It is also an insult to American workers.
Don’t fall back on “Fine, you wanna pay ten bucks for a head of lettuce?” BUNK. The wages can go up without the price of goods increasing. Now some board members and CEOs might have to forgo their bonuses and golden parachutes. Companies might actually have to start treating their employees as something more than ‘human resources”….but these are good things.
This issue is going to have a great deal to do with the socio-economic future of most of the working people in this country. I think we owe it a little better concern then
“It’s just too hard to do anything”
Total deportation. Now.
“Next, please explain how we will replace each of them with a willing American worker.”
Raise the unit price of labor, and let price pull citizen labor into the market.
“Please provide cost and logistic proposals.”
The invisible hand: markets are efficient, and the supply of labor will shift left in the short term and gradually move right as citizens learn about the “good money they’re paying in Colorado to pick honeydew melons”; the demand for such labor will shift left in the long run.
This is the American way.
Woops.
“please explain to all of us how you propose we identify each one, process their deportation, gather them up, contain them, place them in vehicles, and drive them across the border.”
We don’t, we let them get out of the country all on their own as the demand for non-citizen labor dries up.
In other words, we fine the hell out of employers who can’t provide proof of citizenship for every worker under employ.
I agree with you, Flike. If employers were held accountable for proving that their employees are legal, that would be the easiest way to discourage those who are here illegally. It doesn’t seem fair that businesses profit from those who are so desperate and willing to work for next to nothing and no benefits. It’s time that employers quit taking advantage of the situation, and it’s time that all their employees pay taxes.
Point one: There seems to be a general agreement that employers should be fined enough for employing illegals that it makes it too expensive to hire them.
Point two: General disagreement on whether or not to send illegals back to whatever country they came from.
Point three: General disagreement on whether or not American citizens would be willing to take the jobs now being done by illegals.
My take: Point one. Agree. Fine them big time.
Point two. Send them back. let them apply for citizenship in a legal and appropriate manner.
Point three: Yes, I think people would rather work than starve. They would take the jobs.
Is it going to happen? After living in Calif for most of my life, and watching the constant illegal battle with “La Migra”, I have come to the conclusion the INS is unable to do its job effectivelly. Not because they don’t want to, but because they are really not allowed to.
We have made so many stipulations concerning illegals, and their rights, there isn’t a whole lot they can do but send them back and catch them again the next week.
If congress wants to control immigration post 9/11, some radical changes need to be made regarding the borders, and I’m not seeing it happen.
Amnesty is a code word for WELCOME come in and take over our country.
I have a question-What exactly does illegal immigration have to do with the particulars of a post 9/11 mindset, like JM references? Do we just conflate two different things- our borders being porous for terrorists to bring dangerous items in and being porous for non-terrorist illegal hispanic people?I think both are important issues, but they seem very different. My brother works in the legal system in NM. He says they have basically a paddy wagon that picks people up one day, and then again the next, and the next. And then our court system does pay for a large number of judges to decide the cases of multiple repeat offenders (which is still a wrist slap). I don’t think anyone is disagreeing that it is a system that doesn’t work. I just don’t know the answer.I do think it is terrible that Fox is 100% in favor of the mexican exodus. It is just so wrong for a President to say – no your country has to take my citizens. Of course, we all know it is because of how much money gets sent back to Mexico that way.
Allie,My reference to the post 9/11 mindset concerning the border problem: The fact that radioactive material can be smuggled into the country worries the hell out of me. There are nuclear weapons floating around, and some whacko nut would like nothing better than to smuggle one into this country and teach “the great satan” a lesson.
If that problem can be solved, doesn’t it make sense the illegal problem would also be addressed and solved? They do go hand in hand, in my opinion. They both have to cross our borders.
Let’s separate terrorism from massive illegal immigration. Who are the terrorists? Extremist Muslims from the Middle East.
The 9/11 terrorists didn’t come here by crossing the California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas / Mexico border.
Build a 900-foot tall fence, and terrorists can infiltrate via Canada or by landing on one of our coasts.
The terrorist problem can be solved by America’s getting out of the Middle East. To do that, America would have to mount a massive effort to achieve energy independence, and force Exxon Mobile, et al to kiss most of their investments in the Middle East goodbye. It’s doable.
But it would require major sacrifices. Think, for example, about riding bicycles, or taking buses to work. Think about setting your thermostat way down in winter, and way up in summer. We can both develop energy here, and conserve it, and let the Muslims have their oil resources, with us buying their product in equal-status trade, rather than controlling the oil resource.
If we do this, the extremist Muslims will have no desire to terrorize us. Bear in mind, did they attack Wichita or Tulsa or Omaha or Kansas City? No. They went after what they perceived to be imperialist institutions, the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon.
On the mass immigration of low-wage illegal immigrants, the problem can be largely attributed avaricious Mexican rulers. They’re still following a Spanish/Catholic imperialist/colonialist paradigm. Unlike North America, which annihilated the native population, the Spaniards didn’t, they oppressed them. Most illegal immigrants are primarily Indian-blooded.
We also have Central American refugees. Hmm. They come from countries that were taken over by Norte Americano capitalists, like the operators of United Fruit. They too are mostly Indian-blooded.
We could develop a Soviety-Union law-enforcement system: If you see a small, dark-skinned woman entering your neighbor’s house every week, report this to the INS. Elect Congressmen who will enact legislation that forces INS agents to go to the house, and arrest anybody that can’t answer a simple written-English test. (It can’t be too complicated, because many Kansas natives couldn’t pass such a test.)
If you work for a company as an American citizen, and see non-English speaking workers, report this to the INS.
Heavily penalize EMPLOYERS of illegal immigrants.
Mobilize, and find and fund Congressional and Presidential candidates who can be trusted to pass anti-globalization, isolationist legislation.
This is feasible. I am not saying I would personally support these measures, but they are what those of you who want to have a more-secure nation. For example, Norway is energy independent–how many terrorist attacts has Norway suffered? Canada is busy developing its own energy resources and isn’t trying to control the Middle East. How many Muslim terrorist attacks has it suffered–without needing a Patriot Act. You need to get your act together, and DO something.
If you want to stem the illegal immigrant influx, elect legislators who will enact laws that heavily penalize illegal EMPLOYERS, who will then find the costs/risks of hiring illegal immigrants are higher than the benefits.
Medicare recipients will have to accept lower benefits, because America isn’t procreating enough young workers to support retirees. So produce more children, and accept the burdens thereto imposed. Go ahead and raise five kids. If you aren’t willing to do this, stop engaging in simple-minded anti-immigrant twaddle.
Accept doubled food costs, and reallocate your household budgets accordingly.
Accept lower 401 (k) returns as corporations your portfolios have investments in generate no-to-low valuation increases because they don’t generate substantial profits.
Stop buying overseas-produced goods. Stop buying at Wal-Mart, except for good that it sells that are MADE IN AMERICA>
If you want isolationism, you need to develop a majority-citizen concensus, and MAKE YOUR DESIRE HAPPEN.
But don’t engage in simplistic notions.
If enough of you want to end terrorism, mobilize, and get America OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST. Support R & D funding, and production cost increases to make America energy independent.
Offer immigration opportunity to any Israeli who wants to come here, and if some Israelis want to stay in Palestine, let them know they’re on their own. Stop sending them $3 billion+ in annual foreign aid, and then see who wants to stay there. If you don’t like Jews, don’t worry. Very few of them would come to Wichita.
If you want to eliminate Muslim terrorism, you can do this, but it’s going to mean giving up the benefits of cheap energy, cheap plastics and cheap chemicals. Costs for these commodities will skyrocket, and you will have to make major downward lifestyle adjustments if you don’t want to pay these costs.
If you want to stop the flow of illegal immigrants, you can do this, but you’ll have to work until you are 75, to dramatically reduce Medicare and Social Security payouts. In many cases the illegal immigrants have forged green cards, and directly pay MC/SS taxes. In many other cases, they don’t directly pay, but they patronize businesses, such as stores that are able to then increase their legal employee numbers to serve the illegal immigrants, who pay MC/SS taxes.
If you feel that the sacrifices of getting out of the Middle East, and deporting Mexicans are worthwhile, go for it. There are benefits to sacrifice. I’m not saying I ardently support these things, but in a democratic republic, if most Americans want these things, I’m not opposed. I can accept reductions in my lifestyle. On the other side of the coin, if we stay in the Middle East and foment terrorism, I can resign myself to an Orwellian security state. My ancestors survived oppresive medieval-feudal conditions. I think freedom is better, but history proves that progress and regression are inherent to the human condition.
I like Mexicans. But this is because I have had far more positive experiences with them than negative ones. If you want to develop a Soviet “snitch law” you can enforce it here, and you may not mind if West Coast states ignore it, because you can do your thing and keep Mexicans out of Kansas, while West Coasters allow them in, and send you lettuce, apples, cherries and peaches at prices you can afford.
The Onion…
WWE: Illegal Mexican Wrestlers Taking Smackdowns American Wrestlers Don’t Want
March 29, 2006 | Issue 42•13 | Onion Sports
STAMFORD, CT—In response to criticism over World Wrestling Entertainment hiring policies, World Wrestling Entertainment Chairman Vince McMahon defended the league’s reliance on Mexican wrestlers as “the only way fans can witness the grueling, bone-crunching maneuvers that American wrestlers want nothing to do with.”Enlarge ImageMexican Wrestler
Mexican wrestler Rey Mysterio Jr. absorbs a brutal hit during a non-televised WWE event.
McMahon made the remarks after the Border Patrol, an unaffiliated Texas-based tag team known for wrestling masked Mexicans and then reporting them to Immigration and Naturalization Service officials, revealed that dozens of illegal Mexican wrestlers join the WWE each year.
The wrestlers, also known as “jobbers,” come in search of greater title opportunities and more interesting storylines than those available in their small, unorganized Lucha Libre leagues.
“These masked luchadores are hard-working, energetic, and always willing to learn new skills that Americans consider beneath them—such as being power-bombed from the top turnbuckle or chokeslammed through the announcer’s booth,” said McMahon on this week’s WWE Raw.
“The idea that these Mexicans are somehow stealing jobs from American wrestlers is ridiculous,”McMahon said.
“After all, someone’s got to take these folding chairs to the face.” McMahon then picked up a folding chair and whacked Rey Mysterio Jr. in the face.
It is not known exactly how many Mexican wrestlers are on the WWE payroll, since many lack Social Security numbers, or even clear and verifiable identities, as McMahon himself admitted Monday. “I know as much about these masked wrestlers as the fans do,” McMahon said. “What’s certain is, they often seem marvelous and mysterious, saintly, and even rude.”
Yet some American-born wrestlers say they see the influx of Mexicans as a threat to current titleholders, with some going so far as to start on-camera feuds and challenge the Mexicans to special “Retirement Matches.”
“Juventud Guerrera, you’re headed for your own personal Day of the Dead,” said Triple H, a noted opponent of Mexican wrestlers. “If I see you creeping down the aisle one more time, I’m going to notify the Big Boss Man, and you’ll be sorry you ever crossed over into my storyline’s territory.”Enlarge ImageIllegal Mexican Wrestlers
WWE hopefuls seek better opportunities at the U.S.-Mexican border.
Pro Wrestling Illustrated investigative reporter Bart Sweet said that McMahon is hiding cynical motives. “The WWE just wants these men for cheap labor they can use at non-televised house shows,” Sweet said. “They believe luchadores lack the looks, personality, or basic speaking skills to headline main events. Even if one did successfully climb to the top of the company ladder, he would immediately be suplexed off of it and through a table.”
Legendary Lucha Libre wrestlers Mil Mascaras and The Son of Santo, who say they always longed to cross over to the U.S. in search of the American Dream, Dusty Rhodes, claimed that the WWE is exploiting its Mexican wrestlers.
“Match after match, the world can see that the Americans hit our brethren with foreign objects like brass knuckles or barbed-wire baseball bats, but U.S. officials turn a blind eye to the abuse,” Mascaras said. “When they turn around, the Mexicans are passed out in sleeper-holds, which only perpetuates the untrue stereotype that Mexican wrestlers are lazy.”
According to The Son Of Santo, the brutal smackdowns that Mexican wrestlers suffer through just to earn a living have begun to take their toll.
“One of our country’s greatest stars, Eddie Guerrero, has already been worked to death,” The Son Of Santo said. “If the WWE continues to allow them to perform this risky, high-flying labor, many more will end up in casket matches well before their time.”
Heart?
Your last is so full of “twaddle ” (your derogatory word which I now turn on you)
that I hardly know where to begin.
Stop shopping Walmart? Done.
Hits to my 401K? I don’t have one. Most Americans are not of the “investor class” Maybe you are. But the people who already have money (investor class) making less money for doing nothing other than having money is not an arguement that would be relevant for most Ameircans.
You will have to work til you are 75 and accept reduced Medicare benefits… (paraphrasing here….I am tired of scrolling up)
Um Heart? Illegal aliens are mostly paid under the table and off the system. It is the avoidance of paying FICA and avoiding other “bothersome” protections that makes hiring these folks prefferable to hiring Americans by greedy unscrupulous un American companies. So the illegals are NOT paying into the system, directly or otherwise.
It is those very employers by the way that beyond their exploitation fo illegals provide the solution to Social Security and Medicare. TAXATION and TARIFFS.
“Accept doubled food costs”
I think I already covered that. Pay American workers to pick the fruit. Pay them a fair wage and benefits. American workers are not expendable. Huge dividends, signing bonuses and golden parachutes for corporate masters are eminently expendable. SO the “double your cost for food” thing is either just your repetition of a tired lie, or your unfamiliarity with the discrepancy between employers and those they employ.
I’d add also this. Fewer consumers paying for a product equals lower price. Take 12 million people out of the consumer base and watch those prices come down! Illegals don’t pay for food anyway. They get it on their vision cards while they send their wages south. YOu and I pay for their food……and all their other needs.
I will say it again.
We either solve this problem or watch it get worse.We are now basically supporting the continuation of a long corrupt Mexican government. Do we continue?
Amnesty now will only bring more Mexicans north, with their own government all in favor of the exodus.
Some estimates suggest that up to one quarter of the entire population of Mexico now spends at least some of its time in the United States.Shall we shoot for one half? Two thirds? They will continue to come as long as we let them.
I said it before and I will say it again. We cannot save Mexico from itself. And Mexicans cannot save it for themselves………from here.
Total deportation. NOW!!
Didn’t the Amer-Indians have the same view about European invaders?
And didn’t the European invaders, who destroyed the Amer-Indian economy write letters their relatives, saying, “Life is better here, you should come over”? And so they did.
Most Kansans’ progenitors came here from the Old World less than two human-lifespans ago. Are you saying that two human lifespans defines a permanent condition? I don’t think so.
Some have argued that in order to stem Mexican and Central American-source immigration, we need to reform their economies. But if we do this, outsourcing of jobs to Mesoamerica will be identified as “The problem”.
So then, the solution must become isolationism and self-sufficiency. If this is what you want, you must work to make this solution reality. It will impose major costs, but also benefits, and it’s doable, so if enough Americans want this, then they should go for it.
We are in a period of astonishing social experimentation. You can determine the experiment you want to conduct. The capitalists will oppose your experiment, and they have a lot more money to influence matters than you do if you let them. But you’ve got far greater NUMBERS OF PEOPLE.
If you don’t think Senator Brownback represents your vision, get another candidate who will represent your vision, and mobilize others to vote Brownback out of office. Create a new Populist Party, if that’s what it takes.
I’m “agnostic” on the issue. I think that whatever happens will be fascinating, as is all human history.
Ben, heheh, good one:
“encourage economic development south of the border”
HEE HEE, Ben, we cant even do economic development successfully in western KANSAS much less outside the u.s. borders.
We are not doing economic development well do in any of the “great american desert” rural states.
Why would we think we can do it somewhere else? Do we think Mexico has more economic potential than the midwest?
Maybe.
Not bagging on you Ben. The idea makes great sense. We as a nation just arent doing it here, so I have little faith we can do it there.
And if we can do it there? Then why not here… first… ?
Good call.
Here is a problem: We can develop robotics and other ways of increasing Kansans’ productivity in ag and manufacturing. But then multinational corporations will always conclude, “Great, now we can combine higher productivity and lower ‘human capital’ costs (i.e. cheaper labor), and make more profits.”
You need a social revolution that says, “Maximum profits are not the be-all-and-end all of humanity.” How about a goal of making life enjoyable for as many people as possible? If leaders don’t do this, then they are trying to return to the Middle Ages, they are trying to make America a clone of Russia, which following the fall of the Soviet State is still totally dysfunctional. America’s truly most prosperous period was the 1950’s when 12 million battle-hardened vets said, “We aren’t your serfs anymore. Share the wealth of this country, or we’ll take it.” So capitalists capitulated. They lived quite comfortably. The workers lived better than their progenitors. But then this momentum was lost. It became necessary for both husbands and wives to work to afford their own homes. Now that’s even eroding.
Consider gated subdivisions and compounds. These are anti-social. Every walled-and-gated enclave represents a descent towards Third World living conditions.
WWE: Illegal Mexican Wrestlers Taking Smackdowns American Wrestlers Don’t Want
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Thats gotta be the funniest line I ever heard!
Too bad about Eddie Guerrero though. Im a big fan.