Democrats aren’t the only ones questioning the Bush administration’s foreign policy aim of spreading democracy. With violence and costs in Iraq increasing and a newly elected Hamas government in the region, more Republicans are voicing doubts as to whether this foreign policy is realistic.
“You cannot in my opinion just impose a democratic form of government on a country with no history and no culture and no tradition of democracy,” Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., recently told The New York Times.
But Bush hasn’t been one to let dissent get in the way of his goals. And Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told the Times that this administration would again stick to its goals.
Posted by Melissa Cooley
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35 Comments
Ive said this enough on this blog to nauseate even me, but republican government just doesn’t suddenly take root like a zucchini and spread and grow everywhere.
The West has at least 400 years of dedicated philosophical commentary on the subject..one the one hand advocating a “divine rights” type of monarch in Locke’s “Leviathan” early in the 17th century up through Rousseau et al. with the idea of “social contract” and “consent of the governed”.
Republican democracy must be based on the idea that we choose, from among our peers, both our representatives AND our “supreme leaders”. It must be based on the idea that these people are no better than the rest of us, that what they are doing is fulfilling a civil duty, and that the positions they have are theirs by the consent od the people, not by divine right or by application of brutal power once in office.
It also requires that these early Iraqi leaders be completely devoted to these Enlightenment ideal. Washington had the opportunity on several occasions to take a title like “king” or to be elected in perpetuity (making him a king in all but name). He voluntarily chose to step down from office as a visible sign to all that he served in the office of president (and by extension, every other elected office) only temporarily and only for so long as his tenure meshed with the idea that his “contract” with the people was a limited one.
Iraq has no half millenia of this kind of social thought. Until we educate a large portion of the peoiple in these ideas, and know that the peopla accept the ideas as making sense and perhaps even “inspired”, then all we can hope for are political hacks looking to use corruption to make a buck on the lower levels, and political thugs who keep and hold power by treachery, intimidation, and murder, on the high governmental ladder positions.
definition of insanity… doing the same things again and again and expecting different results.
stay the course.
At least Republicans can have their own opinion and do what ever they feel is the right thing to do, even if it goes against the platform of the President or party.
There is a whole lot more “moderate” Republicans than there are “moderate” Democrats. But if you are a Democrat and step of their plantation to have your own opinion about a particular subject you are scorned and the stones will be thrown at you. Example is Liberman’s stance as a pro-war on terror Democrat Senator. He has been shut out of the Democratic Party base and been called a Dino.
Really, Joe?
is that why there is a right wing evangelical republican camp that brands anyone to the left of Rush Limbaugh a RINO? And is that why they raise funds within their organization to oust RINOS from their seats in order to put in good, party line, evangelical Republicans like the Pat Robertson types?
Brian, indeed.
Joe Williams,
People who support the party that has antiblack racism to thank for its current status ought to watch how they throw around the word ‘plantation.’
Homework for Joe Williams: name one elected black GOP officeholder in the House of Representatives or the Senate.
The GOP hates blacks so much, it won’t even put them to work on its plantation.
I can say the only surprise here is that williams didnt say the dems were all smokin’ cigs, drinkin’ beer and sitting on their union pensions.
Of course, being millionaires and all they have plenty of time to create mischief. Unlike those hard working republicans.
Leiberman is in trouble because he’s an ass, not because he is pro-war.
Ned Lamont is giving him FITS because lieberman has totally jumped the shark on his district’s views and is way out of step with his home folks. He’s angling to be McCains vp…or bush’s butt boy, one or the other!
Either way, I think the good folks of connecticut should give him an early retirement.
Support NED!
All those REPUBLICANS who dont swallow bush’s baloney must just be…
IRRATIONAL BUSH HATERS!!!!!
If there are far more moderate Republicans than moderate Democrats, then it’s only because there are far more Republicans than Democrats as a whole. While this is true in Kansas, I don’t think it holds true in the US at large.
So if you’re correct, Joe, then your expression here reflects your local political experience more than it can be extended as a general rule.
And the reason the Democrats likely “scorned” you as a DINO is that you’re confused – in your expression at least – about your own political leanings. I think you think of yourself as moderate but you write here, on this website, like a prototypical Republican neopopulist complete with optional (and retro of the uncool vintage) commie baiting. If you call yourself a moderate but write/talk like a Tom Franks Republican, well if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc.
The Republicans will keep you in the fold as a “useful idiot” (their term, not mine; this is how GOP activists prefer to label anyone who expresses confusion in his/her political beliefs and advocates against his/her self-interest) as long as you don’t act up.
$0.02
I can say the only surprise here is that williams didnt say the dems were all smokin’ cigs, drinkin’ beer and sitting on their union pensions.
Of course, being millionaires and all they have plenty of time to create mischief. Unlike those hard working republicans.
Leiberman is in trouble because he’s an ass, not because he is pro-war.
Ned Lamont is giving him FITS because lieberman has totally jumped the shark on his district’s views and is way out of step with his home folks. He’s angling to be McCains vp…or bush’s butt boy, one or the other!
Either way, I think the good folks of connecticut should give him an early retirement.
Support NED!
Joe
No moderates among democrats?
I think it is YOUR side that “toes the line” as to rigid lockstep politics.
I cite the posters to this blog. I can name a pro gun “liberal” I can name a pro life “liberal”
See any pro choice conservatives here? Where are the gun control conservatives?
Don’t even get me started on your sides treatment of John McCain.
As to topic; of COURSE more Republicans are distancing themselves from the war and bush. Even rats know to get off a sinking ship.
I’ve tried to post a link here THREE times to an RNC memo issued to warn republicans not to distance themselves from bush.
My computer crashed all three times I tried to post the link.
Could someone hand me a tinfoil hat please?
I’m going back to try it again, but in case anyone wants to find it on their own, it was in Time magazine this week.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/03/post_6.html
I crashed two more times before I got it posted.
Crazy, man, crazy.
I’ll check that link KFG.
Wouldn’t want your efforts to be in vain.
There was a story this a.m. about a gathering Democrat primary challenge (Ned Lamont – as KFG notes above) concerning Leiberman’s senate post. There seems to be the usual argument: “Should we stand for what we believe, or play it safe and not rock the boat?” The fact that a challenge is being considered is encouraging to me. Lamont is wanting to make the campaign based on Joe’s support of the Iraq war.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5308415
My question, who besides Hagel (he is the other side’s Leiberman) is coming out against the war/Bush’s foreign policy? I think most Republicans are like democrats; looking down at their shoes hoping to change the subject.
Being “pro war on terror” is not the problem with Lieberman. It is his support of additional wars that actually INCREASE the likelihood of terror.
Great likn kfg …
CF! Once again! You proved yourself as a complete worthless debater.
Not surprising.
Republican Michael Steele is running for Senator in Maryland, and most likely will win. Currently the Lt. Governor.
Republican Rev. Keith Butler is running for Senator in Michigan, but chances of winning will be tough against the incompetent Debbie Stabenow. Currently the Republican City Council member of Detroit.
Republican Kenneth Blackwell will most likely get the Senate seat in Ohio. Currently the Secretary of State of Ohio.
Every election round the African-American voters have been slowly turning away from the Democratic Party with their history of racism and looking towards the Republican Party.
After 130 years of Democratic disinfranchisment and 50 years of propaganda of the Democratic party lieing about they care, it’s finally coming around to bite them in the butt.
I’ll admit that there are people in the Republican Party who are against gays, and that is a shame. But you won’t find any racist against ethinic minorities. I only see that in the Democratic Party. That is why you cannot even convince me to save my life to join the racist Democratic Party. I lean more Republican because some of their issues I agree with, but I’m Libertarian. The Democratic Party? Don’t agree with them on anything. Nothing at all.
WOW Joe
I think that is your longest post ever.
More of little is I guess better than nothing.
CF is a worthless debater? Uh Joe? I know you missed the meet up and was real busted up about it.
YOUR debating skills were discussed.
Maybe a good thing you were not there.
As to blacks and voting; black people know oppression. They have real history with it. That is why they do and will continue to vote for the party that at least tries to work for people, the DNC. See they get it.
What the GOP better worry about is that sooner or later a lot of stupid white men are gonna wake up and realize that THEY are oppressed. One of these days thumping their chests and shouting “ME REPUBLICAN” is gonna get stale in the realization that the “American dream” is just a hook to keep them punching the clock.
But given folks like you Joe, I think this will be a long painful time coming
The logic is irresistible!!
If you’re a Bush hater, then you must be a homosexual. QED
Corollary #1:
All male democrats are homosexuals.
Corollary #2:
Female bush lovers must be republicans…in any event they’re a republican fantasy!!
Joe Williams,
Here’s an article where Paul Weyrich–you know, the FOUNDER of the Heritage Foundation–laments the Republican Party’s unwillingness to support the same African-American candidates that you named in your response: Michael Steele, Keith Butler, and Kenneth Blackwell.
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0306/0306blackgop.htm
Turns out in each case that the state and national parties are either witholding support or are backing white primary challengers. Hmmm. Wonder why?
With respect to Butler, here’s a choice quote from Weyrich:
“If Washington had just left well enough alone, I believe that Butler would have pulled off the surprise election of 2006. Now it doesn’t look as good and that is the fault of the White Republican establishment, which welcomes candidates like Butler with one hand and stabs them in the back with the other.”
Hmmm, Joe Williams. Wonder why that is?
And once again, you failed, utterly, to acknowledge what everyone knows: that the Republican Party cannot claim a single African American holding national office. Not one.
Your sad little pea brain can sputter all the accusations of racism against the Democratic Party that it wants. And considering that Bush is currently approved of by a whole 2% of African American voters, I suggest they don’t need the likes of you sneering down at them where their best interests lie.
Finally, I have linked to a commentary from Steve Gilliard and have pasted it in below as well. He is speaking directly to you, Joe Williams: he calls you a ‘blogzombie.’
*********************************
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_stevegilliard_archive.html
“This article is important because Weyrich was one of the modern heroes of the conservative movement, and even he is calling the GOP out on the way they treat black Republicans.
What he does get is that the GOP doesn’t treat their black candidates fairly, what he doesn’t get is that black voters do not trust or like these people and are unlikely to vote for them because of their fealty to the GOP. There is still a social stigma for black Republicans, last night’s Boondocks couldn’t have been more emphatic about that, with Uncle Ruckus praising “white Jesus” with the assistance of Armstrong Eldridge (a bald, bespeckled black man who oddly enough looked like Armstong Williams). In fact, Uncle Ruckus, the self-hating Negro, is widely seen as a fair representation of black Republicans.
Of course, he overestimates the influence of churches and underestimates the power of the NAACP. And Michael Steele is held in contempt by most black Marylanders to a degree most people would be shocked by.
But this is surprising because Weyrich is no outsider. And even he sees the way that the GOP treats black candidates is revolting.
Of course, Michigan is the home to some of the most virulent white supremacist activity in America, so Butler’s chances are small to begin with. The underlying weakness of black Republican candidates is that they don’t have widespread support in the black community, where being a conservative republican is akin to admitting you’re an Uncle Tom.
But his larger point is that the GOP is undermining their own candidates because of race and that his fellow Republicans won’t vote for him.
So the next time the far right blogzombies say this is racist, I intend to throw this in their faces. Because it is the truth.”
So true CF …
“Rightist *rolleyes*, they never learn.”
Ben Huie,
Or, *refuse* to learn. That much cognitive dissonance can’t be fun to carry around all of the time.
JR I am a pro-choice conservative, me myself I would chose life but who am I to say that some else has to do what I do…however I am also for cc. I think it is everyone’s right to chose if they want to carry or not…
No racist repubs. How about Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmound and every other Southern democrat who switched teams because of the Democratic party’s support of civil rights. How about David Duke who was elected to the Louisana State House and almost elected Gov. Blacks support the democratic party partly because of their support of civil rights, at the time the party of Lincoln stood silent on the issue before
BTW by no means are all Republicans racist.
Bush is not just stupid, he’s crazy.
WASHINGTON (AP) — “President Bush said Wednesday that Saddam Hussein, not continued U.S. involvement in Iraq, is responsible for ongoing sectarian violence that is threatening the formation of a democratic government.”
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/29/bush.iraq.ap/index.html
Man, This has got to be the funnest thing I’ve ever heard. Can’t you just see Bush shaking Sharon saying: ” Another fine mess you’ve gotten me into.”
Bush and Rice represent Israel, not the United States. That’s it. And Bush and Rice are as much as says “Don’t confuse us with facts, our minds are made-up.
What minds?……Oh, you mean the one that’s in a comma?
AIPAC tries to squish the truth about bribing congress and putting the US at grave risk.
http://www.forward.com/articles/7548
No racists? No bigots? How about every Israeli. Arab Israelis are second-class citizens.
Hehehe, Ben & CF–
Doncha just love it when lily-white folks like Joe Williams and Pancho Villa, who haven’t even deigned to talk to a black person in the calendar year, tell the rest of us what African-Americans want?
Looks to me like African-Americans are telling us exactly what they want at the voting booth . . . What party does Barak Obama, Maxine Waters, John Conyers belong to?
That’s the party blacks support.
PL dont forget my personal shero, Cynthia McKinney D-Ga. who was censured on the house floor for calling the 2000 election the “coup de’etat” of the united states”.
Senator Hagel has long been a critic of the Bush administration’s foreign policy and it has made much of the Republican base angry with him, which is unfortunate, as he has generally been correct.
Democrat Action vs. Republican Action
1) Iraq kicks out weapons inspectors, fires missiles at US military jets and violates other signed agreements after Gulf War I.
Action: President Clinton fails to execute Sadam Hussein using missiles fired from US warships. (Which was against international law enacted by President Carter.)Action: President Bush gave Sadam the option to leave Iraq peacefully or else. Sadam choose or else. President Bush gave the government of Iraq a peaceful option, which they did not choose.
2) Bin Laden is a known high-level terrorist. Funding and training terrorists.Action: President Clinton fails to assassinate Bin Laden.(Which was an act of war committed on Afghanistan by firing a salvo of missiles from US warships.)Action: President Bush demands the Taliban hand over Bin Laden after 9/11 to avoid war. A peaceful solution.Taliban refuse to turn over terrorist Bin Laden. President Bush calls for invading the terrorist-accommodating nation of Afghanistan, removes the oppressive Taliban and hunts for Bin Laden in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
3) Terrorists attack The WTC, two American embassies and one US Navy warship.Action: President Clinton does nothing.Action: President Bush announces to the world, any nation that aids or abets terrorists will have deadly consequences.
4) Rwanda genocide and holocaust 1993-1994. Lt Gen Romeo Dallaire of UN mission in Rwanda asks President Clinton for help. About 5,000 US soldiers needed would avert a disaster (Jan. 1993)Action: President Clinton does nothing. President Clinton’s advisors ask how many people have been killed? Is it really genocide? Resulting in the 3rd worst human genocide in the history of the world. 800,000 Rwandan men, woman and children butchered alive with machetes.
Action: President Bush can’t do anything, the death and destruction is over in less than a year in Rwanda. “Never again” was a popular statement after WWII holocaust.
Note: The 2nd worst genocide took place during 1977 – 1980. President Carter did nothing while 2,000,000 Cambodians were tortured, murdered, suffocated and starved to death. Suffocated by plastic bags placed over their heads while the victim’s hands were tied. Bullets cost too much.
In 1979 President Carter was busy planning the great ” bus ride” military mission into Iran to free the US hostages in Tehran.
Ronald Regan when asked “What will he do if the hostages are not released if he becomes President. President Regan’s response “The Iranians will suffer grave consequences if I am elected President.”
The hostages are released the day Ronald Regan is sworn in as President.
5) Panama. President Noreiaga is labeled by President Clinton as a drug dealer.
Action: President Clinton orders the US armed forces to invade and occupy the sovereign country of Panama. He uses the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines to arrest a high-level drug dealer. President Clinton has committed an act of war and occupied the sovereign country of Panama. Mission success.
Action: President Bush no action needed. President Clinton has successfully arrested a drug peddler.
6) The country of Haiti is on the brink of a revolution. President of Haiti gets ousted, looting and civil disobedience follows.
Action: President Clinton orders US armed forces to invade and occupy Haiti. Order is some what restored. US armed forces are still caught in the quagmire of Haiti today. Two presidents have been elected in Haiti, but the occupation continues. Over 10 years of occupation. Longest occupation of a foreign country by US armed forces since Vietnam.
Action: President Bush wants to follow the with drawl plan drafted by President Clinton. But he can’t find it. Maybe it is under the desk of the Oval office.
7) Yugoslavia conflict, Kosavo War, Bosnia
Action: President Clinton orders US armed forces to act as peacekeepers under UN command. UN peacekeepers do nothing while war crimes are committed in front of their eyes. Eventually someone inside the UN steps up and allows the UN to use force. Too little to late. About 200,000 civilians are killed in the conflict/civil war because the UN did nothing. This action brings an end to the war and genocide. The US armed forces under the guise of the UN have invaded and occupied four republics of Yugoslavia under President Clinton.
Action: President Bush can’t do anything because he not Commander and Chief of armed forces during conflict.
8) Yugoslavia and Slobodan Miloševi?.
Action: President Clinton accuses Slobodan Miloševi? of war crimes and demands he be turned over to face charges. Slobodan Miloševi? ignores demands. President Clinton conducts bombing campaign targeting civilians and civilian targets. IE. Yugo factory, steel mills and hospitals. Also bombs Chinese embassy killing Chinese personal and which by international laws is an act of war against China. The country of Yugoslavia is bombed to kingdom come. Eventually the Yugoslavia military hands over Slobodan Miloševi?. Mission accomplished. Apology issued to the Chinese.
Action: President Bush can’t do anything because he not Commander and Chief of armed forces during Yugoslavia war. In all fairness, during Gulf War II Chinese embassy is not bombed and civilian targets are avoided. President Bush uses ground forces instead of bombing the country to kingdom come. Sadam is eventually apprehended. Along with the other thugs that brutally ruled the country for 30 years.
9) Somolia, people are starving and thugs are intercepting food shipments at various ports of entry. Humanitarian missions ask for UN military help.
Action: President Clinton approves the use of US miltary forces under the guise of the UN. Instead of protecting food shipments to the starving people in the country, the military gets bogged down in Mogadishu. The thugs/terrorists use urban warfare to their advantage and chase the UN military out of Somolia. President Clinton becomes famous for his “cut and run” military strategy. Mission failed. Millions of people starve to death.
Action: President Bush is not comandeer and chief of the US armed forces.