Memo to the immigrant-rights marchers: Whatever the merits of your case, it’s a big mistake to wave so many Mexican flags, which in the Los Angeles march appeared to outnumber U.S. flags. The message many Americans will receive is, “We’ve been invaded by people whose allegiance is to Mexico.” That’s not a winning strategy for gaining their support.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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118 Comments
Why don’t they go back to Mexico and wave them Flags in front of their Government and demand rights. To demand that the U.S.A. change its laws to be in favor of them is just plain wrong. If you want to become a Citizen of the U.S.A. do it the right way, come here Legally and do it with the American Flag.
and learn to speack ENGLISH!
Speak!! maybe I should learn english to!
I think it’s great that they wave foreign flags and engage in violence because it will ensure a backlash and violent response on OUR part! A race war/civil war is coming soon and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fantasy world!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Ian sometimes you scare me…LOL
Typical. When prop 187 was being considered (and passed by over 70% before being overturned by California courts) to limit free education and medical assistance to illegals, the illegals were all over the streets, waving Mexican flags. Students were shown on tv, cutting classes and running down the streets yelling and carrying their flags.
They show up in large numbers, but their message is one of confrontation.
They are here ILLEGALLY, and as such, have NO rights under the US Constitution.
Ship em back.
If our government give in to foreign flag waving, illegal immigrant terrorists then they deserve to be strung up, with piano wire!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
It’s too bad that immigration is not using this
“Look at me I’m Illegal and proud of it and I want my rights as an illegal”
flag waving as a means of identifying and rounding up these people.
Until something is done about this, I for one cannot take any other measures as to homeland security seriously.
If our government is susceptible to indimidation then perhaps 10 million angry White Americans with assualt rifles should march on DC to demand an end to affimative action and massive third world immigration?
V.L.R.B!!
My grandparents were immigrants. However,
when we went to a parade, we did not wave the flag of
our old homeland, we waved the American Flag and proudly.
In a world of changing loyalties and sense of honor, I can pledge
my faith, my life and my sacred honor to only one land, one people,
one flag. That flag, is the Red White and Blue with fifty stars on a field of blue.
They can wave the flags if they want. Doesn’t bother me.
Illegal immigration? We have a porous border and something must be done, but I doubt it.
Illegal immigrants present in this country? I guess Congress will come up with a temporary solution. But we will end up with another round of millions of immigrants again in the future.
Politicans are looking for the vote, so they will only do what is politically in their favor and not that of the United States.
Ian doesn’t scare me at all. I know too much about him.
Instead of crossing a border Ian floated over on a rubber raft. An Immigrant that hates immigrants sounds like someone forgot his meds.
ROTFLMOSRFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
V.L.R.B!!
I agree, at best it is stupid for them to fly those flags in this situation. Cinco de Mayo, fine, just as we are all Irish on St. Patricks Day. But in this circulstance they would be infinitely better served by trying to portray themselves as trying to be Americans.
I truly think many of them don’t want to be American. They want the benefits of being American, better jobs, more freedom, etc., but becoming real Americans? Maybe that takes several generations to accomplish, but I just don’t see it in the majority we have at present.
Good point RD. I am reminded of something my wife told me about in LA. A recent Japanese immigrant worked up the courage to ask her if he could practice his English with her on the bus commute. He was constantly studying to learn his English better. He is today, I am sure, a person I would be proud to call a fellow American. Unfortunately, there are those for whom that is not the case.
Agree with Ben and RD. It would appear to me that moving to a new country would natually suggest you learn the language. Not in this case…here we have people demanding we have more bi-lingual officers and relief workers.
What is wrong with this picture?
Mexican flags being seen as a threat? Er, what about St Patrick’s Day? And Columbus Day? Bastile Day? And the Britishness of Anglican churches? Rebel flags in the South? Why are so many people opposed to Mexicans displaying their heritage. (I’m not Mexican.)
Uh Greg?
Did you read the rest of the thread?
These are illegals protesting and demanding their right to remain here illegally while they take American jobs and send their pay home.
Mecians working illegally in America are Mexicos #1 source of revenue.
# 2 is selling oil……to us.
Now I don’t know about you greg but these folks are already international criminals.
I don’t think it a stretch to think of them as invaders…..waving their banner as they march.
I just ordered 200 Mexican flags to burn this weekend. Worth the money spent
Yeah Rom, I bet you did….riiight.Were you planning on doing this, er, uh, flag burning in public?
I didn’t think so.
I attended a conference once that talked about the number of schools in Kansas that were teaching English as a second language. It was shocking. Hays was German, Linsborg was Swedish, Wilson was Czech and so on. Several communities were identified on the map through out the state of Kansas. What was shocking? The date was 1890!
Think about that for a while. The same hate you express was directed at you ancestors.
Ask your grandparents how they were treated when they came to this country. The Volga Germans were spit upon and call names as were the Irish and so on.Sure something needs to be done. Don’t blame the people who are just trying to survive and make a better life for themselves and their families! Have you ever talked to any of them? Have you ever even tried? They are in your cafes, motels, meat processing plants, they are the unseen.
Blame the people who will hire them with a wink and a nod! ie Wal-Mart and their janitorial scandal. This is a government policy to keep wages low. Big business would not have it any other way.
The problem seems that they were visible and people saw what their every low prices really means.
I’m not real keen on people coming here while at the same time rejecting American values.
If you don’t see the American flag as your flag, then get the hell out.
That goes for the Southern traitors and their battle flag as well.
NWKS18,
He shoots, he scores!
Exactly right. If the gov’t really wanted to stop illegals, they’d dry up the DEMAND for them.
Instead, they go after the illegals who have no rights and can’t vote.
It’s a lot easier, and a lot less effective . . .
Guests or gate crasher
By Thomas SowellMar 28, 2006
Immigration is yet another issue which we seem unable to discuss rationally — in part because words have been twisted beyond recognition in political rhetoric.We can’t even call illegal immigrants “illegal immigrants.” The politically correct evasion is “undocumented workers.”Do American citizens go around carrying documents with them when they work or apply for work? Most Americans are undocumented workers but they are not illegal immigrants. There is a difference.The Bush administration is pushing a program to legalize “guest workers.” But what is a guest? Someone you have invited. People who force their way into your home without your permission are called gate crashers.If truth-in-packaging laws applied to politics, the Bush guest worker program would have to be called a “gate-crasher worker” program. The President’s proposal would solve the problem of illegal immigration by legalizing it after the fact.We could solve the problem of all illegal activity anywhere by legalizing it. Why use this approach only with immigration? Why should any of us pay a speeding ticket if immigration scofflaws are legalized after the fact for committing a federal crime?Most of the arguments for not enforcing our immigration laws are exercises in frivolous rhetoric and slippery sophistry, rather than serious arguments that will stand up under scrutiny.How often have we heard that illegal immigrants “take jobs that Americans will not do”? What is missing in this argument is what is crucial in any economic argument: price.Americans will not take many jobs at their current pay levels — and those pay levels will not rise so long as poverty-stricken immigrants are willing to take those jobs.If Mexican journalists were flooding into the United States and taking jobs as reporters and editors at half the pay being earned by American reporters and editors, maybe people in the media would understand why the argument about “taking jobs that Americans don’t want” is such nonsense.Another variation on the same theme is that we “need” the millions of illegal aliens already in the United States. “Need” is another word that blithely ignores prices.If jet planes were on sale for a thousand dollars each, I would probably “need” a couple of them — an extra one to fly when the first one needed repair or maintenance. But since these planes cost millions of dollars, I don’t even “need” one.There is no fixed amount of “need,” independently of prices, whether with planes or workers.None of the rhetoric and sophistry that we hear about immigration deals with the plain and ugly reality: Politicians are afraid of losing the Hispanic vote and businesses want cheap labor.What millions of other Americans want has been brushed aside, as if they don’t count, and they have been soothed with pious words. But now the voters are getting fed up, which is why there are immigration bills in Congress.The old inevitability ploy is often trotted out in immigration debates: It is not possible to either keep out illegal immigrants or to expel the ones already here.If you mean stopping every single illegal immigrant from getting in or expelling every single illegal immigrant who is already here, that may well be true. But does the fact that we cannot prevent every single murder cause us to stop enforcing the laws against murder?Since existing immigration laws are not being enforced, how can anyone say that it would not do any good to try? People who get caught illegally crossing the border into the United States pay no penalty whatever. They are sent back home and can try again.What if bank robbers who were caught were simply told to give the money back and not do it again? What if murderers who were caught were turned loose and warned not to kill again? Would that be proof that it is futile to take action, when no action was taken?Let’s hope the immigration bills before Congress can at least get an honest debate, instead of the word games we have been hearing for too long.
Thomas Sowell is the prolific author of books such as Black Rednecks and White Liberals and Applied Economics.
Vast difference, NWKS….consider LEGAL immigration vs. sneaking into this country under a fence.
These people are already breaking the law by being here, and now they wave their country’s flag in their protests that this country wants to enforce existing laws.
Major difference.
eah Rom, I bet you did….riiight.Were you planning on doing this, er, uh, flag burning in public?
I didn’t think so.
In a heart beat..I am not afraid.Screw em!
Ian”a race war”I have see more interrace violence in the Mexicon comunity then with other races.I am not as concerened with “race wars” as I am Mexico’s apparent plan to take over this country.
This is from the NYT. The Eagle has refused to run the story, and the editors have refused to give us a thread to discuss it.
-CF
*********************************
Bush Was Set on Path to War, British Memo SaysBy DON VAN NATTA Jr.Published: March 27, 2006
LONDON — In the weeks before the United States-led invasion of Iraq, as the United States and Britain pressed for a second United Nations resolution condemning Iraq, President Bush’s public ultimatum to Saddam Hussein was blunt: Disarm or face war.
But behind closed doors, the president was certain that war was inevitable. During a private two-hour meeting in the Oval Office on Jan. 31, 2003, he made clear to Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain that he was determined to invade Iraq without the second resolution, or even if international arms inspectors failed to find unconventional weapons, said a confidential memo about the meeting written by Mr. Blair’s top foreign policy adviser and reviewed by The New York Times.
“Our diplomatic strategy had to be arranged around the military planning,” David Manning, Mr. Blair’s chief foreign policy adviser at the time, wrote in the memo that summarized the discussion between Mr. Bush, Mr. Blair and six of their top aides.”The start date for the military campaign was now penciled in for 10 March,” Mr. Manning wrote, paraphrasing the president. “This was when the bombing would begin.”The timetable came at an important diplomatic moment. Five days after the Bush-Blair meeting, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell was scheduled to appear before the United Nations to present the American evidence that Iraq posed a threat to world security by hiding unconventional weapons.
Although the United States and Britain aggressively sought a second United Nations resolution against Iraq — which they failed to obtain — the president said repeatedly that he did not believe he needed it for an invasion.
Stamped “extremely sensitive,” the five-page memorandum, which was circulated among a handful of Mr. Blair’s most senior aides, had not been made public. Several highlights were first published in January in the book “Lawless World,” which was written by a British lawyer and international law professor, Philippe Sands. In early February, Channel 4 in London first broadcast several excerpts from the memo.Since then, The New York Times has reviewed the five-page memo in its entirety. While the president’s sentiments about invading Iraq were known at the time, the previously unreported material offers an unfiltered view of two leaders on the brink of war, yet supremely confident.The memo indicates the two leaders envisioned a quick victory and a transition to a new Iraqi government that would be complicated, but manageable. Mr. Bush predicted that it was “unlikely there would be internecine warfare between the different religious and ethnic groups.” Mr. Blair agreed with that assessment.
The memo also shows that the president and the prime minister acknowledged that no unconventional weapons had been found inside Iraq. Faced with the possibility of not finding any before the planned invasion, Mr. Bush talked about several ways to provoke a confrontation, including a proposal to paint a United States surveillance plane in the colors of the United Nations in hopes of drawing fire, or assassinating Mr. Hussein.Those proposals were first reported last month in the British press, but the memo does not make clear whether they reflected Mr. Bush’s extemporaneous suggestions, or were elements of the government’s plan.
Consistent Remarks
Two senior British officials confirmed the authenticity of the memo, but declined to talk further about it, citing Britain’s Official Secrets Act, which made it illegal to divulge classified information. But one of them said, “In all of this discussion during the run-up to the Iraq war, it is obvious that viewing a snapshot at a certain point in time gives only a partial view of the decision-making process.”
On Sunday, Frederick Jones, the spokesman for the National Security Council, said the president’s public comments were consistent with his private remarks made to Mr. Blair. “While the use of force was a last option, we recognized that it might be necessary and were planning accordingly,” Mr. Jones said.
“The public record at the time, including numerous statements by the President, makes clear that the administration was continuing to pursue a diplomatic solution into 2003,” he said. “Saddam Hussein was given every opportunity to comply, but he chose continued defiance, even after being given one final opportunity to comply or face serious consequences. Our public and private comments are fully consistent.”
The January 2003 memo is the latest in a series of secret memos produced by top aides to Mr. Blair that summarize private discussions between the president and the prime minister. Another group of British memos, including the so-called Downing Street memo written in July 2002, showed that some senior British officials had been concerned that the United States was determined to invade Iraq, and that the “intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy” by the Bush administration to fit its desire to go to war.
The latest memo is striking in its characterization of frank, almost casual, conversation by Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair about the most serious subjects. At one point, the leaders swapped ideas for a postwar Iraqi government. “As for the future government of Iraq, people would find it very odd if we handed it over to another dictator,” the prime minister is quoted as saying.
“Bush agreed,” Mr. Manning wrote. This exchange, like most of the quotations in this article, have not been previously reported.Mr. Bush was accompanied at the meeting by Condoleezza Rice, who was then the national security adviser; Dan Fried, a senior aide to Ms. Rice; and Andrew H. Card Jr., the White House chief of staff. Along with Mr. Manning, Mr. Blair was joined by two other senior aides: Jonathan Powell, his chief of staff, and Matthew Rycroft, a foreign policy aide and the author of the Downing Street memo.
By late January 2003, United Nations inspectors had spent six weeks in Iraq hunting for weapons under the auspices of Security Council Resolution 1441, which authorized “serious consequences” if Iraq voluntarily failed to disarm. Led by Hans Blix, the inspectors had reported little cooperation from Mr. Hussein, and no success finding any unconventional weapons.At their meeting, Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair candidly expressed their doubts that chemical, biological or nuclear weapons would be found in Iraq in the coming weeks, the memo said. The president spoke as if an invasion was unavoidable. The two leaders discussed a timetable for the war, details of the military campaign and plans for the aftermath of the war.
Discussing Provocation
Without much elaboration, the memo also says the president raised three possible ways of provoking a confrontation. Since they were first reported last month, neither the White House nor the British government has discussed them.
“The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours,” the memo says, attributing the idea to Mr. Bush. “If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach.”It also described the president as saying, “The U.S. might be able to bring out a defector who could give a public presentation about Saddam’s W.M.D,” referring to weapons of mass destruction.A brief clause in the memo refers to a third possibility, mentioned by Mr. Bush, a proposal to assassinate Saddam Hussein. The memo does not indicate how Mr. Blair responded to the idea.Mr. Sands first reported the proposals in his book, although he did not use any direct quotations from the memo. He is a professor of international law at University College of London and the founding member of the Matrix law office in London, where the prime minister’s wife, Cherie Blair, is a partner.
Mr. Jones, the National Security Council spokesman, declined to discuss the proposals, saying, “We are not going to get into discussing private discussions of the two leaders.”At several points during the meeting between Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair, there was palpable tension over finding a legitimate legal trigger for going to war that would be acceptable to other nations, the memo said. The prime minister was quoted as saying it was essential for both countries to lobby for a second United Nations resolution against Iraq, because it would serve as “an insurance policy against the unexpected.”
The memo said Mr. Blair told Mr. Bush, “If anything went wrong with the military campaign, or if Saddam increased the stakes by burning the oil wells, killing children or fomenting internal divisions within Iraq, a second resolution would give us international cover, especially with the Arabs.”
Running Out of Time
Mr. Bush agreed that the two countries should attempt to get a second resolution, but he added that time was running out. “The U.S. would put its full weight behind efforts to get another resolution and would twist arms and even threaten,” Mr. Bush was paraphrased in the memo as saying.The document added, “But he had to say that if we ultimately failed, military action would follow anyway.”
The leaders agreed that three weeks remained to obtain a second United Nations Security Council resolution before military commanders would need to begin preparing for an invasion.Summarizing statements by the president, the memo says: “The air campaign would probably last four days, during which some 1,500 targets would be hit. Great care would be taken to avoid hitting innocent civilians. Bush thought the impact of the air onslaught would ensure the early collapse of Saddam’s regime. Given this military timetable, we needed to go for a second resolution as soon as possible. This probably meant after Blix’s next report to the Security Council in mid-February.”Mr. Blair was described as responding that both countries would make clear that a second resolution amounted to “Saddam’s final opportunity.” The memo described Mr. Blair as saying: “We had been very patient. Now we should be saying that the crisis must be resolved in weeks, not months.”It reported: “Bush agreed. He commented that he was not itching to go to war, but we could not allow Saddam to go on playing with us. At some point, probably when we had passed the second resolutions — assuming we did — we should warn Saddam that he had a week to leave. We should notify the media too. We would then have a clear field if Saddam refused to go.”
Mr. Bush devoted much of the meeting to outlining the military strategy. The president, the memo says, said the planned air campaign “would destroy Saddam’s command and control quickly.” It also said that he expected Iraq’s army to “fold very quickly.” He also is reported as telling the prime minister that the Republican Guard would be “decimated by the bombing.”Despite his optimism, Mr. Bush said he was aware that “there were uncertainties and risks,” the memo says, and it goes on, “As far as destroying the oil wells were concerned, the U.S. was well equipped to repair them quickly, although this would be easier in the south of Iraq than in the north.”
The two men briefly discussed plans for a post-Hussein Iraqi government. “The prime minister asked about aftermath planning,” the memo says. “Condi Rice said that a great deal of work was now in hand.
Referring to the DefenseDepartment, it said: “A planning cell in D.O.D. was looking at all aspects and would deploy to Iraq to direct operations as soon as the military action was over. Bush said that a great deal of detailed planning had been done on supplying the Iraqi people with food and medicine.”Planning for After the WarThe leaders then looked beyond the war, imagining the transition from Mr. Hussein’s rule to a new government. Immediately after the war, a military occupation would be put in place for an unknown period of time, the president was described as saying. He spoke of the “dilemma of managing the transition to the civil administration,” the memo says.The document concludes with Mr. Manning still holding out a last-minute hope of inspectors finding weapons in Iraq, or even Mr. Hussein voluntarily leaving Iraq. But Mr. Manning wrote that he was concerned this could not be accomplished by Mr. Bush’s timeline for war.
“This makes the timing very tight,” he wrote. “We therefore need to stay closely alongside Blix, do all we can to help the inspectors make a significant find, and work hard on the other members of the Security Council to accept the noncooperation case so that we can secure the minimum nine votes when we need them, probably the end of February.”At a White House news conference following the closed-door session, Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair said “the crisis” had to be resolved in a timely manner. “Saddam Hussein is not disarming,” the president told reporters. “He is a danger to the world. He must disarm. And that’s why I have constantly said — and the prime minister has constantly said — this issue will come to a head in a matter of weeks, not months.”
Despite intense lobbying by the United States and Britain, a second United Nations resolution was not obtained. The American-led military coalition invaded Iraq on March 19, 2003, nine days after the target date set by the president on that late January day at the White House.
NWKS
Absolutely dry up the supply of employers that exploit and use these illegals and in so doing fatten their bottom line at the expense of America. YES
But That is demand. There is also supply.
I am aware that other immigrants had it hard. That is exactly why I do not have any compassion at all for these invaders. They have no comparison at all to MY ancestors.
All of my ancestors came here on wooden sailing ships across the Atlantic ocean. That is a whole lot harder than sneaking over a border.
Some of my ancestors were indentured servants. They had to do seven years of servitude to a sponsor before they were free. That pails to the ancestors of black Americans who lived for centuries in chains. But both far outweigh the “hardships” of these current “immigrants” who arrive and cripple our healthcare and welfare systems
But the subject was these folks waving flags.
My ancestors came from Germany, Prussia, Holland, Switzerland and
(boy some folks here are gonna take hold of this and not let go )
Poland.
They did not wave their flags while parading and shouting “Deutschland uber alles” or any other allegiance to the country they left behind.
That these “immigrants” do so puts them out of comparison with mine and other Americans ancestor immigrants.
These are invaders.
That is off topic CF.
That is THE TOPIC
I am glad you posted it here and I suggest putting it on ALL THREADS.
J R,
Check ‘em.
My family legally immigrated from Germany in 1885. They lived in a dugout home (ever heard of those?) southwest of Wichita. They learned English quickly (I’ve heard the stories) and became a part of the community. If I count back correctly, I’m 4th generation and don’t know a bit of German, except to count to three and say “heath” when someone sneezes.
nwks, I understand your post about the Germans, Swedish, Czech, and so on. It’s not just teaching English as a second language that’s the problem. The problem begins when we started teaching Spanish as a second language. Did we do that with German, Swedish, Czech, and so on? I learned French in 4th grade and Spanish in 5th over 45 years ago, right here in Wichita schools, but it was for educational purposes, not because I needed it on a daily basis to converse with others in the community.
What is it with all the “you hate” comments? I don’t hate.
A friend mentioned the other day that those entering the U.S. illegally, hoping to become legal at some later day, are starting out on the wrong foot. Wouldn’t you agree?
ProudLib,”That goes for the Southern traitors and their battle flag as well.”
Where do I begin? I know, the South lost the Civil War. A lot of southern families lost family members who died defending that flag. They fought as bravely as any union soldier who defended the Union Jack.
Somewhere, somehow, the Southern Cross was perverted to mean something it was never intended for. That’s sad, because in the Old South, it’s something to be respected.
The “War of the Insurection” wasn’t about slavery, it was about an over-bearing government and a proud people and tradition that was being smothered.
Yes, the South was defeated, but the proud tradition lives on in the blood and the hearts of the sons and daughters of the Confederacy.To Northerners, the Southern Cross is a racist emblem. But to another culture, another way of life, it’s a part of an old heritage and will always be revered for what it truly is.
There’s another side of the story, ProudLib, and it has nothing to do with traitors.
Why aren’t the liberals on this blog siding with their traditional Leftist open border, amnesty-for-all-illegals cliche? Is it because they know that the Democrats don’t want to secure the borders because they want to build up the Hispanic voter base that traditionally votes for their party? Hmmm… Maybe they would appear “unpopular” here?LOL
You might want to read Mexifornia by Victor Davis Hanson, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. He went to school with Mexican-American kids, taught them at Cal State U Fresno, and employed them on his farm.
I picked strawberries and loaded 50-60 pound lettuce cartons in the field with Mexicans. I remember breathing noxious-smelling pesticides disbursed by crop-duster planes in the next field over. I remember constant back pain stooping over for hours at a time. I remember 8 year old kids and their older siblings working with their parents to make it possible for their families to build nice homes in Mexico. I remember these same kids being put-down and challenged to fight by white students in school. I remember people, who despite suffering extraordinary hardship displayed a wonderful upbeat spirit.
I remember, as a middle-aged adult many years ago, trading a professional spray painting system for a paint job performed by a Mexican. I gave him some other tools. He gave me his best chicken as a gift. I remember only a few years ago, contracting with a Wichita roofing company that employed Mesoamerican immigrants. They did my roofing job in July, a time that most Kansans don’t want to work outdoors all day. I didn’t ask for cheap labor. I just entered into a legal contract for services, with a respected Wichita roofing company.
I have a third-generation Mexican-American brother-in-law. His grandparents were true “wetbacks” who crossed the Rio Grande. He’s a Republican. He’s a construction foreman and makes $70,000/year.
I’ve known many church-going, tax-paying people who have employed illegal immigrants ranging from undocumented Irish nannies to Guadalajaran maids. We’ve never done this ourselves, but we don’t severe friendships on this difference of hiring practices.
Most Mesoamerican immigrants are Mestizo or mixed Indian-European. Their ancestors once lived here, before the last Ice Age. If you go to Scandinavia, they have museums that describe the first Norsemen, who, it turns out, came from the Black Sea region.
Humans migrate to survive, when it becomes necessary. If we have another Ice Age (one of the possible outcomes of near-term global warming), do you think that Norte Americanos are NOT going to “invade” Mexico and Central America TO SURVIVE? You don’t have to think about this, but your own great-great grandchildren might.
Another great book that every Kansan should read is John Ise’s “Sod and Stubble”. His brother was tortured in school, in sickeningly heinous acts that would be judged felonious battery today. Why? Because they were GERMAN. His parents could not fight this, because as naturalized citizens, they could be deported if they did not acquiesce. They did work that native-born Anglo-Americans would not do. They lived in a filthy, primitive, dirt-floored dugout.
I hurt for 3rd and 4th generation Kansans whose progenitors were peasants like today’s Mesoamerican immigrants. Due to FDR’s farm-subsidy program’s and revitalization of Wichita’s Great-Depression-ruined aviation industry, the decimation of blue-collar labor in Europe and Japan in WWII, and a returing workforce of battle-hardened veterans who refused to take abuse, the children and grandchildren of impoverished Euro-Kansas immigrants rose to the middle class.
But Europe and Japan procreated and created new workers. American began funding the industrialization of the Third World in the 1950’s and ’60’s. So the world has changed. Capitalism wants a surfeit of labor, to hire at the lowest possible cost. You can’t beat this. It’s just the way things are.
If there is an answer, it lies in reinventing education in Kansas, to produce knowledgeable young people who can figure out how to find productive niches for themselves in this turbulent, rapidly-changing world.
I can’t guarantee it will work for everyone, but we don’t have a lot of options. If you support the option of letting schools indoctrinate students to be regimented and obedient, but not knowledgeable, then you want your children to work at Third-World industrial wages, like, a dollar an hour. Or else be unemployable here.
There are people who oppose allowing Mexicans to attend college at Kansas resident-tuition cost. But if these students fail classes, they are out. They can only succeed by WORKING REALLY HARD. If they succeed in college, and if some of your children don’t, what does that say about YOU? Why didn’t you train them to study, and succeed?
If you don’t want your children to be “shown up” by foreigners, then get your act together. If your schools are failing to prepare your kids for college, elect new BOE members. Do what JoCo citizens are willing to do: tax yourselves more to raise teacher salaries, and elect BOE members who will recruit college-prep-knowledgeable administrators and teachers.
If you decline to work, sacrifice and take action, then it isn’t the immigrants’ fault for wanting a better life, working really hard, and sacrificing for their children, it’s your own fault for sitting on your duffs and complaining without working to support your own children’s future success. This is HARD. How HARD ARE YOU WILLING TO WORK? WHAT SACRIFICES ARE YOU WILLING TO MAKE TO HELP YOUR OWN CHILDREN SUCCEED?
I am saying that illegal immigration is right. Maybe we should have invaded Mexico, instead of Iraq, and reconstructed Mexico’s corrupt economy and political system. Maybe we should fine employers of illegal immigrants. For example, if somebody employs a person who can’t speak English, that’s prima facie evidence that the employee isn’t an American. We could have a national database: for every person who presents a “green card” to an employer, the employer must report this transaction and with NSA-level supercomputers, it can be quickly determined whose green card is real, versus forged. If employers fail to report these transactions, then they could be heavily fined, and perhaps subjected to criminal penalties.
I’m not going to argue that this is what we “need” to do. But ultimately, for a democratic republic, American citizens have to decide what they want.
There are millions of everyday citizens who benefit from illegal immigrants. Take white women who boost family incomes by hiring Mexican maids and nannies, which enables middle-class American women to be productive contributors to our economy. Consider the cost of food that we eat, which would be much higher without Mexican laborers. Consider home construction costs.
There are positives and negatives here. Nobody knows what the ultimate balance is. Basically, mass illegal immigration is a far-reaching social experiment. We could have stopped it long ago. We could stop it today. I really don’t know whether we should stop it or allow it to continue. Some people feel strongly that we should stop it, and they express sound reasons; others feel strongly that we should continue it and they express sound reasons. Each group has its own perceived self-interests to protect. Neither group really knows what the ultimate costs and benefits of its position are.
I know that my sister loves her husband, the grandson of illegal immigrants, and their and mixed-blood children, and I know that he contributes to Medicare and Social Security to make it possible for white American retirees to live in relative comfort, compared to their destitute legal-immigrant ancestors. I know that my spouse, the child of legal immigrants, has made major contributions to the lives of Kansans.
I know that Dust Bowl-refugees who moved to California did really unpleasant, barely-subsistence-wage ag work, and when we declared war, and higher-paying war-industry jobs were created, most of them fled the fields, creating a vacuum that SOMEBODY had to fill.
I know from personal experience, that many Mexicans are very hard working people, and they enjoy being productive. The ones I have known have been ASSETS to America. But that’s just my personal experience. Other Americans have had negative personal experiences.
Correction: I meant to say, “I am NOT saying that illegal immigration is right.”
Where are we meeting to burn those Mexican flags? Im ready.
There ought to be some kind of public event……..you know,,,,,,,like the invaders are having.
Sigh…..but there won’t be.
Only way to stop illegal immigration is to make them legal. We might as well be collecting taxes from them if we are giving them health and welfare benefits.
great post heartlander.
I remember that my dad couldnt read because he got spanked at school for speaking german and he got spanked at home for speaking english. I remember how he stuttered because he had to translate everything in his head.
I remember how proud he was of my education and especially my language skills.
I remember the stories he told about his dad sending money back to russia to bring his brothers over. I remember him telling how his dad wept when he learned his mother and sister had died of starvation in the Bolshevic revolution.
Talk about immigrants getting a foothold in the job market! My mom told stories of hoeing, topping, and harvesting sugar beets in eastern colorado and wyoming. It was the best work she could get as the daughter of volga german immigrants.
She remembered being chased home from school by kids throwing rocks and calling her a “dirty russian”. She remembered crying and being ashamed and wishing she were something…someone…else.
She cleaned houses for “english” people because that was the best job she could get.
She remembered her older sisters laughing and saying “ya, ve are dirty rooshans, but ve are clean enough to raise der kinder und clean der filthy houses.”
I remember that my grandparents BARELY spoke english. I remember wanting to learn low german as a child, and the grownups not being willing to teach me or my cousins how to speak it. I thought it was so they could talk in front of us and not have us understand.
When I was older, I learned they did not teach us because they didnt want us to grow up and sound “dutchie” so we could get good jobs.
I honor my family’s immigrant past. I honor the past of these newest immigrants and the contributions they make. I honor the future citizens, like my mom and dad and I, that they will produce.
I dont have an answer to the problem, if there really is a problem. I think in america, we are ADDICTED to bedwetting and fear of the latest boogey man.
I just think it now only takes HALF a generation in this country to forget who we are in our rush to be the same. To finalize the walmartization of american.
BTW, not all of my eastern european ancestors were legal. But all of us since then have been legal. Where would kansas be without the decendents of all those immigrants, both legal and illegal?
Empty. We are just about all that remain. Would the last person leaving ks please turn out the lights?
heheh.
*farmgrrl takes cover from the impending storm*
You must not have read my post Farmgrrl.
The suffering of YOUR ancestors and mine is precisely why this allowed invasion of the country they helped build is so wrong.
I can’t believe anyone cannot see these people proudly waving their flags, chanting “Mejico! Mejico” and not be outraged.
farmgrrl…
Ve vill find you… ewen if you hide in Wictoria or Valker!! LOl!
Mexico.. the 51st State?I was in Southern California over the weekend… I saw nothing but happy, peaceful young people marching, having fun and waving BOTH flags. They didn’t bother me a bit.. although it was a bit loud for my old ears!!
Since the opposition is gearing up to respond, I’ll post something else.
I carry around a tattered piece of paper in my wallet that has a little poem on it. I actually know it by heart, but I carry it anyway. See if this sounds familiar.
“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to be free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
Emma must be weeping in her grave. I know reciting that brings me to tears everytime.
And there you have the false promise of american today. They made the same arguments against eastern european immigrants in 1886. Today? Different faces, same arguements.
Talk about false promises. Why dont we just drape the statue of liberty in black and cover the inscription on the base. Let’s put up a sign that says the world has changed, we no longer hold these truths to be self evident. No vacancy.
Let’s at least tell the truth of who we are as a nation in 2006.
Oh, I forgot. We cant handle the truth.
JR, others…
I love you all. We just dont agree on this.
Not much a problem out where you live I imagine KFG.
Some of us have it a little different.
Like a year ago when about 15 of these people were sharing the house 2 doors down. I like mariachi music. But not at 3 A.M.
I didn’t have a scope on how bold these people have become. These are no “huddled masses yearning to breathe free” These are invaders.
I posted this above, but I think I will repeat it here.
When the preznit lies and breaks the law, we call it leadership.
When immigrants lie about documents and break the law by being here, we want them gone!!
I think we would be WAY better off deporting bushco and letting the immigrants stay.
At least they work for a living.
I wonder if the response would be the same if it was Canadian’s crossing our Northern border? I think not, and that is sad.
Ha JR. I lived in Tejas for almost 17 years. Western ks is not my only reference point.
But now that you mention it…
The best thing that could happen to my home town is to have 30 hard working immigrant, hispanic, non-english speaking families move here.
They might teach some of these lazy s.o.b.’s around here how to work. Stereotypes here, but they generally have a pack of kids to put in our schools. WE need those kids in our schools and have the excess capacity to welcome them.
I wouldnt mind having 30 families with kids buying groceries and such in our town and paying sales tax into our depleted coffers.
We need entrepreneurs out here. Let them bring their industry and their willingness to sacrifice and not take the easy way out. Let them start businesses, clean houses, paint barns, mow lawns, iron our shirts. No one else out here wants to do those things.
Let them start restaurants and tortilla factories and sell salsa at the farmers market. Let them hire OUR children to work in THEIR businesses.
Let them attend our dying churches, put money in the offering plate, and empty the bedpans in our hospitals. Let them sit with our grandmothers in the nursing home. No one else out here wants to do it.
Let them buy one of our $7000 houses, or a $3000 house in one of the even smaller towns. Let them paint it and fix it up and live there until they are old. Let their grandkids play on the lawns.
So please, send them ALL out here. Fence us off and round them all up. I’ll take them all and turn this place into a producing asset instead of the wasteland it is now.
I’ll gladly pay whatever social costs they may or may not bring with them. Because… the alternative for us?
Road kill.
BTW, I also think it is stupid to carry mexican flags in this atmosphere. I cant read their minds, but I dont think they are using those flags to signal their allegiance to their homeland. I think it is to establish and express their identity.
I dont think they identify as mexicans. And maybe I missed something, but I havent seen them burning u.s. flags. I think they call themselves mexican-AMERICANS.
All you cons out there can take a lesson from this. Libs dont always agree, but we dont eat our own either. JR and I are still friends, and will be, even though we disagree on this issue.
We dont have to read our talking points to see what we are SUPPOSED to say today.
heheh.
I love you too Farmgrrl
I will not go easy with you on this. It is too important and I owe you better.
(Taking the gloves off)
I never would have thought I’d find YOU in agreement with bush KFG.
“Jobs Americans won’t do” those are bush’s words and in your last post you paraphrase them.
Every single one of those jobs you mention has been done by Americans….that is until the cheap labor flood arrived.
Let em bring their industry? Yeah I see LOTS of their industry. It is lined up at the Western Union booth at the store everytime I go……..wiring their ill earned wages to Mexico. Then I see many of the same folk in the checkout line paying for their food with a Vision card and WIC vouchers.
Don’t imagine I’m not doing this with teeth unclenched………but I can still smile.
Uh SAM?
Maybe we are not being over run by Canadians because that coutry actually WORKS for its citizens.
Mexico’s #1 source of revenue is wages sent home from illegal aliens. They actively promote illegal immigration.
And you forget yourself sir. No one has argued harder against prejudice and racism in these blogs then I have.
Well JR… you are welcome to unload on me.. I am a conservative yaknow! AND.. I totally agree with Farmgrrl on this one. I truly believe that if you welcome these people into our country, they will soon get out of those welfare lines and into productive society! They are NOT afraid to work and they will become PROUD Americans when we allow them to be.
Yeah that’s why they’re waving Mexican flags sam.
XXX–
Yup, the “Old South!” Let’s all drink a toast, shall we.
In the South, they call the battle flag, the REBEL flag.
Screw ‘em.
My only regret is that their traitorous and murderous rebellion against the United States didn’t SUCCEED.
Then we wouldn’t have had Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton and especially THE BUSH’S as president.
The rest of us could have watched the racist, shit-kicking, Dukes of Hazzard-watching backwater that is the former Confederacy from a safe distance, and not allowed it, like a colicky colon, to control the health of the entire body . . .
Oh, well.
They are.. many of them ARE Mexican. If we let them be American, they will have a new flag to wave. Many were waving American flags anyway!
heheh JR.
I said people wont do those jobs in WESTERN KS!!
IT is true. Some of us were talking yesterday how one of the barriers to getting people from the cities to move here is that city folks are used to having someone clean their houses, mow their lawns, etc.
We have a real labor shortage here. Hays supposedly has 400 jobs that cant be filled right now. Good jobs.
I dont see people from wichita flocking out here to take them. Maybe someday those companies will move themselves to a more populated area so they wont have a worker shortage.
And when they move, where will they move?
Wanna bet it wont be anywhere in ks?
There is no small element of these folk (the better educated ones) who are actively advocating that the territories of California, New Mexico , Arizona, and Texas should be returned to hispanic control……..and I’m the racist?
By the way they can have Texas; provided bush goes with it.
Damn, sorry boys, but I gotta leave the field today. Helping a friend pack to move to california. Lucky guy to be escaping.
Go re-read my blue state’s letter to the red states. I agree with PL, we shoulda let them go.
When I worked in Louisiana 20 years ago, I had an older banker negotiating a deal with me. He kept referring to the “recent unpleasantness”. But I hadnt been there very long, so I figured it was some local news I didnt hear.
Turns out he was talking about the CIVIL WAR!!!! In 1985!
JR, I agree about Canada. Their government actually works FOR them not against them.
See you guys tomorrow!
JR.. I hope you don’t think that I called you racist, because I did not.. or that was never my intent.
That group I believe is the decendants of the Aztec heritage who are still laying claim to those states. Hmmmm… wonder why they don’t want Nevada and Utah?
BTW, the Texas flag is virtually identical to the “Stars and Bars” of the Confederacy.
Yee haw!
PL, that’s not the texas flag. The texas flag is the lone star. I think it is georgia that still has the stars and bars. And Arkansas too?
After reading this long thread (skipping the off-topic stuff) I find I actually agree with KFG on this one.
Here’s a thought. I don’t know if it would work, I don’t think there is a single solution here. Fences won’t work; there will be holes in the fences faster than you can build it. Punishing employers won’t work, they’ll just take those employees off the books (many are now) and increase the underground economy.
Why do mexicans come here? (and we are talking primarily about latinos here, as that is where the flood is coming from)
Simple. Jobs.
The ONLY solution that works, long term, is to develop the Mexican economy so that there are decent jobs at home. The billions spent building a useless fence could be better spent developing the mexican economy. Now – how to do that without feeding the corrupt machine that is mexican government – I’ll leave to some other genius.
I’m not concerned with “Americanizing” this wave of immigrants. This kind of fear of immigrants is not new – it has happened before in our history, and this country has absorbed those immigrants; they are your neighbors. We will absorb these as well, eventually. And our culture will be richer for it.
But we have to stem the tide. The only way to do that, long term, is to develop decent jobs in mexico.
I gotta go too. It is fixing to storm here I think.
Outside………..not on the thread.
Thank you sam
I am sure that for some it may be about race. It is not so for me.
This is about the future of America.
If the supply of exploitable labor continues to grow, the wages for that labor will continue to fall. Thus encouraging a never ending downward spiral.
GMC70..It IS happening.. since the Mexican government started allowing foreigners to actually buy property in Mexico about 3 or 4 years ago! You should see the multi-billions of dollars of investments occuring along the coasts of Baja……
I’d point out one other thing, for those who wish to “deport ‘em all.”
Those children born in the US are American citizens. Check the Constitution. 14th amendment, Sec. 1. It says what is says- and I quote: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.”
What do we do with those kids? They are citizens. Just like those of use born here of “american” families.
Does anybody else remember when NAFTA was being inacted how people where so scared that *all* the jobs where going to go to Mexico and how our U.S. economy would flatline and all evils and horrors and pestilance would occur?
Yeah Julie……and it came true.
The American jobs went in a tidal wave south with companies (freed by NAFTA) to chase the cheapest labor.
That was the giant sucking sound you saw starting a deade ago when we stopped making anything in this country.
See NAFTA was SUPPOSED to act like GMC mentioned. It was SUPPOSED to elevate the Mexican worker.
But the environmental and labor standards that NAFTA was supposed to bring to Mexico…..never came. Colusion between the corrupt Mexican government and the businesses flooding over the border saw to that.
But now, not even Mexicans can work cheap enough to manufacture the things we consume. Now those companies have gone to China where the ultimate cheap labor………slave labor, is available.
So now the Mexicans flood north, They aren’t coming for the manufacturing jobs. There aren’t any here anymore.
They are coming for the last of the jobs. These are the service jobs that we were told would employ Americans when manufacturing was gone.
Now when all this back and forth sucking ends, pretty much all working folk in America Mexico or China are gonna have a pretty sucky lot .
It is time for it to stop. It is time to send the cheap labor back to fix it’s own country,,,,so that we can get about fixing this one.
JulieWhat planet are you on?
You haven’t seen any jobs going to Mexico?
That is very noble, KFG. Did your ancestors demand ‘rights’ for coming here illegally? Did your ancestors fire off their guns at midnight on New Year’s like my neighbors do, threatening lives? Did your ancestors refuse to learn English, and instead demand bilingual officers and social workers? Did your ancestors race around with flags of their country protesting laws here?
Probably not. They, like mine, worked to assimilate themselves into their new home…learning the laws, customs, and abiding by the laws of their adopted country.
While debates about guest-worker programs for illegal aliens take place in the corridors of power, in the streets of America’s big cities no amnesty is being offered by activists calling for the expulsion of most U.S. citizens from their own country.
While politicians debate the fate of some 12 million people residing in the U.S. illegally, the Mexica Movement, one of the organizers of the mass protest in Los Angeles this week, has already decided it is the “non-indigenous,” white, English-speaking U.S. citizens of European descent who have to leave what they call “our continent.”
The pictures and captions tell the story.
“This is our continent, not yours!” exclaimed one banner.
“We are indigenous! The only owners of this continent!” said another.
“If you think I’m illegal because I’m a Mexican, learn the true history, because I’m in my homeland,” read another sign.
“One of the more negative parts of the march was when American flags were passed out to make sure the marchers were looked on as part of ‘America,’” said the group’s commentary on the L.A. rally.
Both Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., chairman of the House Judiciary Committee and a proponent of tougher border security, and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger were caricatured as Nazis by the group on its posters and banners.
Full articleSource: WNDhttp://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=8456
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Guy from up North,I was in high school when NAFTA was inacted. I’ve only recently gotten interested in politics and all. I’m still learning.
Invasion By Invitation
By Frosty Wooldridge3-30-6After the massive demonstrations in Las Angeles, Denver, Chicago and other cities last weekend, “Houston! We’ve got a problem, a big problem.”Hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens marched in the streets of America demanding their ‘rights’. That’s like a band of bank robbers demanding not to be arrested and allowed to keep robbing more banks by bringing in their buddies to help them. What you’re seeing is a complete breakdown of the rule of law in America. What you’re witnessing is the colonization of America by another country. Further, you’re watching your own President Bush and Congress aid, abet and assist this assault on the United States.Did you notice hundreds of thousands of illegals waving the Mexican flag in America’s streets while trampling Old Glory? Instead of standing up for the U.S. Constitution, the Senate Judiciary Committee passed an amnesty program that facilitates this invasion by invitation.On KSTE 650 radio in Sacramento, California the hosts, Armstrong and Getty received a call from Julio an illegal alien, “My family came here before I was born. We Mexicans come here to take our land back. We were here first. We will use your system to vote you out. We come to fight. It is our land, not yours. We are taking it back.”La Voz de Aztlan, March 27, 2006 wrote, “What does the immense success of “La Gran Marcha” mean to Mexicanos and other Latinos? It simply means that we now have the numbers, the political will and the organizational skills to direct our own destinies and not be subservient to the White and Jewish power structures. It means that we can now undertake bigger and more significant mass actions toachieve total political and economic liberation like that being proposed by Juan José Gutiérrez, President of Movimiento Latino USA. Juan José Gutiérrez is proposing that the coalition that organized “La Gran Marcha” meet in Arizona or Texas on April 8 to “organize a mass boycott against the economy of the USA” on May 15.”Do these illegal immigrants sound like they are assimilating into the American way of life with an allegiance to the U.S. Constitution? Would you want them for your neighbor? Terry Anderson, black radio talk show host living in Los Angeles said, “LA has become a Mexican cityI don’t advocate violence but I predict anarchy.”In Las Vegas an American said, “Three Home Depot management employees came out to talk to us. They quietly told us they had been “having problems with the loitering illegal Mexicans – they jumped up and down on the customers’ parked cars. They had fights but Home Depot doesn’t want us to say anything about these same problems!”This Mexican male with heavy, silver jewelry hanging on his neck said to our group mostly composed of seniors, “I won’t have to worry — you people won’t be around in a few years…we’re taking over your country anyway!”Representative Russell Pearce of Arizona said, “Illegal aliens cost taxpayers $69 billion annually (just in social services) in federal programs in 2002. Studies estimate that amnesty would increase that three fold. Perhaps as high as 80 percent of the violent crime in Phoenix area involves illegal aliens (according to Phoenix Chief Hurt and Mesa police violent crimes response team). Over 4000 homicide warrants issued by the Border States to suspects who are believed to have fled south of the border into Mexico.1. $311 Billion in uncollected taxes (Barron’s study).2. $200 Billion annually in-lost American wages. Native-born American men lost an average of $1700 in wages in 2000 due to US immigration policy (Harvard University).3. Maricopa County Hospital loses over $2 million weekly on uncompensated care (largely do to illegal aliens) (2003, 77 border hospitals filed for bankruptcy).4. One-third of our federal prisons are illegal aliens, over 5000 illegal aliens in our State Prison.5. Arizona spends over $800 million to over $1 billion (K 12) annually to educate illegals.6. Over half of AHCCCS births are from illegal mothers. One-third of children in Arizona have immigrant parents.Robert Tecau said, “I am compelled to contact you regarding the ongoing invasion, occupation and colonization of the United States of America, by hostile enemies from Mexico and points south…an invasion that is being facilitated, aided, abetted by many U.S. politicians.”Since when does a mob of hostile, foreign criminals, in this country illegally, have any say whatsoever in how our nation is to be governed, much less demand that they be extended the same rights and privileges as legitimate, law-abiding, U.S. citizens?”And once you have answered the above, how about answering these questions as well:Q#2: Why are we allowing millions of diseased, non-assimilating,poverty-stricken revolutionaries and agitators and criminals, who despise us with a passion and who clearly have every intent of destroying our Republican form of government, into this country? What madness is this?Q#3: Why weren’t ICE officers present at the anti-Sensenbrenner bill rallies and demonstrations…and if ICE agents were present, why wasn’t the opportunity immediately seized upon to arrest and deport hundreds of thousands of these illegal aliens in one fell swoop?Q#4: Why is federal action not being taken against craven, treasonous,anti-American politicians for their blatant Fifth-Column activities, which frequently include making angry demands for ignoring the rule of law and the overthrow of our nation?”Is it not yet obvious that we have reached critical mass with this terrible situation? What’s it going to take, another bloody Civil War, culminating in the deaths of countless Americans, before our federal government finally comes to a realization as to just how far down this dangerous rabbit hole they have taken us?”Another reader responded, “Hold on to your seatbelts; it’s going to be a terrible ride here in America from now on. America is now another third world nation. It just hasn’t caught up with us yet. You better start learning the Mexican language as they are not going to learn ours. They now have many more rights than the citizens. Thanks to George W. Bush and all of the stupid GOP that’s in right now. Aren’t you very proud of all the stupid do nothing politicians, you kept voting back in? Well America deserves this now!!! It’s really what you voted for. Enjoy it; there is more on the way!”Our stupid, stupid politicians passed a bill during the night that will give all illegals more rights than the citizens who voted for them and will “reward” all the illegal aliens already here for breaking our immigration laws so more and more can come in and the ones already here are going to be “rewarded” for all of their illegal efforts. Our country has essentially been taken over now, from this invasion of illegals into OUR country, better say that loud because it’s not ours anymore. We have “given away the till”, without a shot being fired. They brought our once great country down from now and forever.”I’ll tell you American citizens, you should have taken your head out of the sand. But no citizens did anything and the politicians did nothing for the citizens also. So this is what we have now and forever. You simply don’t know how rough it will be on all of us in America from now on! Jobs now will be scarce, and what jobs there will be, will pay almost nothing. America will now be a cesspool of humanity. It will soon be Canada, USA, and Mexico as one nation. America does not have sovereignty anymore. March 28, 2006 a terrible, sad day here in America!!! Better get used to it now! It’s only going to get worse from here on out!”Ladies and gentlemen of America, George W. Bush and Congress are guilty of treason against the U.S. Constitution and citizens of the United States of America. So help us, God!http://www.rense.com/general70/d4sp.htm
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!!!!
KSFGrl–
Check it out.
http://www.usflag.org/history/confederatestarsandbars.html
Looks pretty dang close to me . . .
well I don’t know how anyone else feels after reading Ian post but I things keep getting scary.. I am glad that I have my faith to fall back on..how else could I sleep at night??? what a great world we are going to leave to our children and grandchildren…sad very very sad
Everybody “knows” something and some folks folks are just too damned clever by half! Fear is a wasted emotion but RAGE is a gift.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
ProudLib, did you read the text that came with your flag link?
“Note: It is necessary to disclaim any connection of these flags to neo-nazis, red-necks, skin-heads and the like. These groups have adopted this flag and desecrated it by their acts. They have no right to use this flag – it is a flag of honor, designed by the confederacy as a banner representing state’s rights and still revered by the South. In fact, under attack, it still flies over the South Carolina capitol building. The South denies any relation to these hate groups and denies them the right to use the flags of the confederacy for any purpose. The crimes committed by these groups under the stolen banner of the conderacy only exacerbate the lies which link the seccesion to slavery interests when, from a Southerner’s view, the cause was state’s rights.”
Why do you hate Southerners, ProudLib?
I would compare the hijacking of the Southern Cross to the use of an upside down crucifix by satanists. does that make the crucifix any less a holy symbol of Christianity?
It seems that reprisals have begun. :)
Vandals bump spanish station off the air4 radio towers toppled
Brent WhitingThe Arizona RepublicMar. 30, 2006 12:00 AM
“Vandals took a torch and toppled four 197-foot radio towers that are part of a seven-tower cluster in Black Canyon City, authorities said Wednesday.
The damage has been preliminarily estimated at “millions of dollars,” said Susan Quayle, a spokeswoman for the Yavapai County Sheriff’s Office.
Knocked off the air was KMIA-AM (710), a Spanish station in Phoenix. It broadcasts ESPN Deportes, a sports-talk format that launched last month. advertisement
Tom Duran, the station manager, said there was no immediate indication when the station would be back on the air. It could take “several weeks,” Duran said.
“It’s disheartening to know that somebody would do damage like this to a federally licensed facility,” he said.
He said he was unable to say whether the damage may be linked to recent immigration unrest throughout the nation. He said the FBI will be asked to investigate…”http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0330towers0330.html
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
OMG, I agree with GMC70 on something:
“But we have to stem the tide. The only way to do that, long term, is to develop decent jobs in mexico.”
True & excellent post my new found friend!
DD
As I post above that was the purpose of NAFTA.
The manufacturing jobs ALREADY all went to Mexico. And then they went to China.
We have nothing more we can do for Mexico then to force Mexico to change.
The Mexican government is corrupt from top to bottom. They are PURPOSELY sending their people here in order to send revenue home. Since they are here, they are no socioeconomic burden ….as they should be….on Mexico.
We are not doing these people any favors by continuing allow the Mexican government to fail its own people. And our own already beaten working class is being destoyed.
If we force the illegals home sudddenly, Mexico will collapse into the revolution and reformation it is long overdue for.
Send them home. Make them fix their coutry, before they destroy ours.
And as to the issue of children born in America of illegals……also known as anchor babies……they must go too.
Any child born after the last amnesty of 1986 should have become a citizen by now. If not they have no intention of doing so.The babies of the current crop of illegals must also be sent out.
This is the issue that pepetuates this problem. Even the current attempt to address the issue uses it. How many babies are the “guest workers” gonna have in the next six years.
We either solve this problem or lose the country. They all have to go, now.
XXX,I learned a lot about the Southern Cross from what you posted above. Thanks for the information.
NoJoCo,Thanks for your interest.
XXX–
“Why do I hate Southerners?” Clever, did you get that from the Hank-Nathan school of argument?
Al Gore, Carter, Fulbright, M.L. King, Tennessee Williams, and BB King are from the South. I like them.
No, what I object to is all this “the South will rise again” BS. That doesn’t sound very contrite. That sounds like “we rose up in armed rebellion against our native land, but, dammit, we were right.”
In fact you’re rationalizing right now–”it was state’s rights.” Oh really? And the Congress doesn’t allow States to argue for their rights democratically? They should just raise and army, elect their own president and seceed from the Union?
I don’t hear too many Southerns saying that armed rebellion against their own democratic government wasn’t a good idea.
They seem to want to do it again, if you gave them half a chance.
Screw that.
Uh X?
Proud lib?
You are not adressing the thread.
This is not about the flag of the confederacy.
I’m torn…I’m all for securing borders (Is the 700 foot fence such a terrible idea?), but at the same time, I feel for the children who were born here of illegal immigrants, and who were smuggled here with their illegal parents. It’s not like they had a choice. They’ve lived here for most of their lives. America is their home. Can you imagine uprooting and being deported to a foreign country because of circumstances beyond your control? They attended school here, they made friends here, they made this place their home…how can we kick them out to a completely foreign (in their eyes) place because of their parents’ flouting of the laws? Or how can we kick their parents out and leave the kids to fend for themselves?
What if we figured out a way to secure our borders (even if it means a 700 foot fence and vigilant cowboys with rifles), and then grant amnesty to those already here? After that, the ones who manage to defy odds and end up in America despite the border control would be true “outside the box” thinkers…perfect for contributing to our entrepreneurial society..reward their gutsiness with citizenship!
Oh yeah, and crack down on businesses that employ illegal immigrants. I do believe that the argument “Illegals take the jobs no one else wants to do” is weak. If we offered living wages to people who do those kinds of jobs, Americans would take them in a heartbeat.
Tara,That is the biggest problem here: Illegally hiring illegals, and doing so without paying SSI, paying them low wages, not paying them for overtime, because if they had to hire americans, they would have to provide what the government mandates.
Fine businesses enough for violating the law that it makes it uneconomical to hire illegals. Maybe jail time.
The other thing that jacks my jaw is identity for new jobs. A DD form 214 isn’t any good for ID? How ridiculous is that? It’s easier to get a fake birht certificate, social security card, drivers license or any photo id than it is to get a fake DD form 214. Ridiculous.
Proud lib,”what I object to is all this “the South will rise again” BS. That doesn’t sound very contrite.”
After 145 years, you still expect contrition?
I’ll be out all day, but we’ll continue this discussion later.
JR,” Uh X?Proud lib?You are not adressing the thread.This is not about the flag of the confederacy.”
I would have agreed, but then I saw the hateful and bigoted post from PL.
The thing about mindless bigotry, you just never know who’s toes you’ll step on.
“Clever, did you get that from the Hank-Nathan school of argument?”
No, actually I learned that one from Washington Monthly and Atrios. Real right-wingers, huh?
JR – & all
The problem, of course, is that those “anchor babies,” if they are born here, are AMERICAN CITIZENS. Just like you, I presume. As much as we might like to, we CANNOT constitutionally strip them of their citizenship and throw them out.
I don’t have a trite solution. I have no illusions that developing the mexican economy will be easy; we’d have to get past the organized institutionalized theft that is the mexican government. But it’s the only solution that will work; everything else is just a band-aid, and much of it an unrealistic (wall at the border, deport 10-15 million people) bandaid at that.
Teddy Roosevelt, 1907:
“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Good one Raptor
I was talking to my Mom about this issue and she said Lou Dobbs has been using this from one of the better Repbulican Presidents….(my favorite one actually)
Thanks for finiding it for me.
I don’t know of any words that could better address people defiantly waving the flag of another nation while they demonstrate for their right to remain in this one.
Raptor,I wholeheartedly agree with Teddy. I don’t know why we want to divide ourselves into mexican-American, irish-American, chinese-American, african-American. Having traveled abroad I was asked what nationality I was, I always proudly responded “I’m American”. I’m proud of my ancestors and their history but I don’t fly their flags. I proudly display the Star Spangled Banner!
Capitalism’s imperative to obtain low-cost labor, either by importing it, or by outsourcing jobs, is not going to stop.
It’s in too many people’s interests, who have more money and political power than you do, to continue this process.
Actually, if you have a stock-market based 401 (k) retirement program, your caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, because your own retirement portfolio is based on corporate profits that are dependent on lower labor costs.
Onex bought Boeing-Wichita. Why didn’t the workers buy the plant, and then operate it as they deemed appropriate?
I wonder why the beaner college professor was not charged with a hate crime for his rant?
“WE HAVE GOT TO ELIMINATE THE GRINGOS”
By: Devvy
March 30, 2006
NewsWithViews.com
The words above were spoken by Jose Angel Gutierrez, professor, University of Texas, Arlington and founder of the La Raza Unida political party. His full comment was: “We have an aging white America … They are dying …We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him.”
In a column dated March 25, 2006, by Ernesto Cienguegos titled “La Gran Marcha” surpasses all expectations,” Cienguegos wrote: “What does the immense success of “La Gran Marcha” mean to Mexicanos and other Latinos? It simply means that we now have the numbers, the political will and the organizational skills to direct our own destinies and not be subservient to the White and Jewish power structures. It means that we can now undertake bigger and more significant mass actions to achieve total political and economic liberation like that being proposed by Juan José Gutiérrez, President of Movimiento Latino USA. Juan José Gutiérrez is proposing that the coalition that organized “La Gran Marcha” meet in Arizona or Texas on April 8 to “organize a mass boycott (huelga) against the economy of the USA” to take place on May 5 or 19.”
As Professor Gutierrez is proposing killing gringos, the message from Cienguegos becomes crystal clear. Make no mistake about it and I said it in my last column: millions of illegals are blatantly shoving their lawlessness right in our faces with the backing of cowardly politicians at all levels. The talk all week on cable and radio has been about the November elections and how the Republicans can’t afford to alienate the Latino vote. Not about the law, not about the massive destruction to our country from this invasion, just protect their political butts at all costs. Yellow bellied cowards.
Every American and legal alien should watch a few of these videos to see exactly what the “Mexica Movement” is all about and exactly how serious these invaders are; see here and here.http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd180.htm
Viva La Revolucion Blanco!!
XXX–
I suspect there’s not much common ground here so continuing the discussion is just going to be an exercise in futility.
But my views can be summed up as
I don’t “hate the South” or “hate Southerners.” There are a lot of good elements in Southern culture–the idea that a handshake is practically an oath of brotherhood and honesty is something the Northerners should respect and emulate, for instance.
But I am repelled by people who are too good to fly the one and only AMERICAN flag, who take up arms against their own democratic government and don’t seem to be particularly apologetic about it.
When Southern blacks organized in the fifties and the sixties and asked for simple justice like integrated school, an end to segregation, and voting rights, something like half a dozen Southern states ADDED the emblem of the Confederate battle flag to their state flags.
Tell me again how it shouldn’t at all be associated with racism?
The Union won the Civil War and lost Reconstruction, because the big corporations had the same interests as the ante-bellum planters: cheap labor for the non-food crops of cotton and tobacco.
“40 acres and a mule” was a great idea–essentially land reform and reparations in one–that powerful special interests made sure never happened.
And so it goes . . .
What’s wrong with waving their flag? they cant deny their heritage. You as American’s would never stop waving your flag right? Why should we? Personally I wave both…Im a Mexican, but it is America who has assured my future. THE AMERICAN DREAM!!! If my parent’s had not moved here I’d probably be married (I’m 16). I thank America. And I’m sorry there is so many RACISM being shown towards us during this time. Mexico is not the onlly source for illegal immigrant’s. And again thank you for my free education.
QUE VIVA MEXICO, Y QUE VIVAN LOS ESTADOS UNIDOS (USA)
PL,Georga added the Southern Cross to it’s state flag in 1956. No other state, as you say, has added a battle flag since then.
” If preserving segregation was the purpose of the flag change, they would have clearly said so.Even those who opposed the change in 1956 never made that charge. There was active opposition from a Confederate society, the United Daughters of the Confederacy. They actively campaigned to retain the previous flag that was based on the First National Flag of the Confederacy. It was the emblem they used to identify their organization. Nowhere is there any evidence that their opposition was based on any claim of racism.The centennial of the Confederacy, and the war resulting in its formation was rapidly approaching in 1965. The last few veterans of the war were rapidly passing on. President Eisenhower issued a proclamation urging Americans to prepare memorials and programs to commemorate the event. Many states, cities and private organizations proceeded to make such plans. Many programs were organized. Many new monuments were constructed and installed in both northern and southern states. The Georgia legislature installed the soldier’s emblem, the Confederate Battle Flag, on the state flag as a memorial to those veterans.Two things happening at the same time cannot be used to prove any cause and effect, and that is the only evidence the flag haters can produce.”
ProudLib, the Southern Cross IS an American flag. It was the battle flag of The Confederate States of AMERICA.
The professor’s alleged comments were outrageous, but one fact is quite valid:
In order to enjoy better consumer lifestyles, and because kids do not contribute to family survival as they did a century ago (there are some still but their numbers are diminishing), we don’t have as many children as our forebearers.
Our population IS aging, as it is in all the developed nations. We need young workers. Either we have to procreate more, or import millions of young people (actively or passively)or else reinvent our economy to make it possible for most Americans to work and earn decent salaries and wages as 70-75+ year olds.
Earning power and real wages stagnant…..even below purchase power of 20 years ago.
That is the reality for the American worker. Part of that is due to outsourcing which should also be addressed. Part of it is an exploitable illegal group of people ever willing to work for far less than American workers can afford to.
Hey Heartlander? If we in the future find a “need” for cheap invading foreign labor, I am sure that it will still be there. Mexico shows no signs of reform or making itself a country whose inhabitants choose to stay in country. This is not about to change as long as it can export its citizens and their needs here and send the fruits of their illegal labors there.
I’m sorry. Maybe I seem without compassion. But I think I will continue to err on the part of the future of the American people. I’ll demand of Mexicans no less.
Total deportation. Now.
Ana,I don’t know as it is racism being shown here. I suspect American people would rather NOT be involved in a discussion that could mean either sanctuary or deportation for 11 million illegal aliens. The fact is, we are, so hostilities are going to run high. It’s part and parcel with these type of issues.
I was born and raised in a community with a balance of races; about one third white, mexican, black. Racism wasn’t something we thought much about because we all just got along.
It wasn’t until I joined the service that I found out what racism was. It’s not pretty by any means.
The point is, there are eleven million illegals in this country. Why are they here, and why is the government not doing its job in keeping them out? Why is their country not able to meet the job needs of its own people? Why can’t these same people come into this country in a way prescribed by law? Is it this countyies job to provide for people who come into this country illegally? What happens to Americans who are in those same countries illegally? Would they be deported, jailed?
There could be an effective guest worker program in this country, but it would have to be funded by both this country and any other country wishing to participate. Background checks could be done, along with any other thing necessary. But being illegal is just that: Illegal. That’s not racism, just the law.
Well said J M
This is not about racism.
This is about national identity.
You are “thankful” ana for the life that your parents as illegal residents of my coutryhave made for you.
You seem proud of your heritage ana. Just as those who wave the Mexican flag while they protest to remain in the United States seem proud of their heritage.
But what is that heritage ana? Are you proud that your parents fled their country instead of working to make it better? Are you proud to be here while the nation that is your proud heritage gets only worse while you are here?
Pride in your Mexican heritage demands that you and your parents return to your land and make it a place to be proud of, instead of staying here and waving your flags.
JR we often agree on things, but not on this.
My question is, who is going to pay your Social Security and Medicare benefits–unless you don’t feel you will need federal post-retirement support? Today’s retirees didn’t pay for these benefits when they were working; as workers they were paying for the payouts to the then-current generation of retirees. Social Security has never been a savings plan, it has always been a payment-transfer system from current workers to current retirees.
Ask any economist, liberal or conservative. In the 1950’s we had six workers contributing to each retiree’s benefit plan. That was BEFORE Medicare.
Today we have three workers contributing to each retiree’s benefit plan, with the additional burden of Medicare. One solution is to generate more workers as the number of retirees is rapidly increasing. There aren’t enough American young people to do this. Your options include:
1. Bringing in a huge number of young-adult immigrants.
2. Greatly prolonging the working stage of life well beyond the age of 65 or even 67, to maybe 75.
3. Geatly reducing Medicare benefits: if retirees get very sick, they can just die, or else pay the vast majority or all of their medical expenses out of pocket (skyrocketing Medicare costs are much more problematic than SS costs).
If they want hip and knee replacements, they can just hobble around, or become sedentary (which will hasten demise through loss of exercise benefits to the heart, and cut SS costs), or cough up the money for surgery out of their own pockets.
You have compassion. So bear in mind your own family members who may have recently retired, or will do so in the next 20 years. (This is a major reason that I support helping hispanic students go to college: they’ll generate a lot more tax revenue than minimum-wage day laborers.)
On jobs being taken by illegal immigrants, I cleaned houses in college. It wasn’t bad, as I made about $12/hr in today’s dollars. I also did yardwork which I learned as a child (I was originally an illegal worker, being below the minimum age to get a work permit, as I toiled for other families at age 11, and didn’t report my income.)
On my college employment, my own college-student kids probably could not get housecleaning jobs, because these have been taken by illegal immigrants. It’s a problem. On the other hand in going to the university jobs board long ago, it was easy for me to get housecleaning and lawn-mowing and weeding jobs because other white students didn’t want them: the housekeeping and yardwork listings had been on the board for more than a month. I don’t know how good I was at vacuuming, doing laundry, dusting and dishwashing, but my employers didn’t fire me, so I guess my work was satisfactory.
Some holier-than-thou speakers today talk about their “legal immigrant” progenitors. The fact is there was no or almost no immigration law when their ancestors came here: anybody who could get over here was allowed to live here. About a century ago the first immigration law was passed to prohibit Japanese and Chinese immigration, but European immigration was not subject to any legislative regulation, except that they be counted upon entry, and their names, ages and origination points documented, at Ellis Island.
For most European peasants who came here between 1880 and 1910, their cargo-hold passage was heavily subsidized or paid for entirely by American industrialists.
Most “native Americans” didn’t want the new immigrants, including, perhaps, your ancestors. But the industrialist capitalists paid off legislators and overruled the vast majority of Americans.
I daresay that most original Native Americans probably didn’t want the 17th-19th-century-arriving European immigrants either. They had their own systems of laws, and tried to protect their land, but British and American newcomers didn’t respect the Indians’ laws. So I guess the Anglo-Saxon immigrants were law-breakers. (Of course they were: they committed treason against their own (British) government, a capital offence.)
In summary, those who try to make a distinction between “legal” and “Illegal” immigration aren’t making persuasive arguments, except to the ignorant who went to public schools that didn’t teach REAL American history, in its warts-and-blemishes ENTIRETY. (If we had lost the Revolution, George Washington would have been hanged.)
When Catholics initially created their own schools, the WASP establishment tried to shut them down, on the basis of “moral” arguments.
Really smart, hard-working southern and eastern European immigrants’ children were denied college admission. Then they were grudgingly let in, but then denied law and medical school admission. Some of the brightest of these pursued Ph.D.’s and were the originators of a “subversive leftist” tradition in higher education. Discrimination and denial of reasonable ambition to enjoy mainstream advancement can do that.
Many immigrants were forced to change their names, either because Ellis Island clerks couldn’t spell the immigrants’ actual names, or because the immigrants later decided to Anglo-Saxonize their names, to “fit in”. They were in this way like slaves who were forced to take their masters’ Anglo-Saxon names. (Of course, many British Isle immigrants used as their surnames the names of their townships or feudal lords.)
My spouse’s parents, who came to America after WWII, semi-Anglicized their surname, while an uncle totally Anglicized his name. They never gave up their ethnic identity, in that they maintained Old World customs, but they were pragmatic, in giving up their real names.
Illegal immigration has been allowed–nay encouraged– here, not just by Mexico’s rulers, because it generates benefits for America. It also obviously has adverse consequences. Both of these are true for the mass immigration Civil War-to-WWI era as well.
The question isn’t How do we send the aliens packing, or at least stop all future illegal immigration? It’s an understandable question, but it isn’t going to be answered by our political leaders. I love watching Lou Dobbs. A very smart guy. His arguments are as sensible as those of Americans a century ago. But they are not going to hold sway, unless average Americans get serious.
If you want to do away with bilingual ed, that’s reasonable. English-only education will help assimilate immigrant children more rapidly. On the other hand, prohibiting them from speaking Spanish to each other between classes or at lunch is a fool’s errand. Are you going to prohibit them from taking Spanish classes, because “they have too much of an advantage”? If they can help white Spanish-taking students learn the language, consider the benefits.
If you say, second-language proficiency is useless, then ask yourself, why do schools in France, Germany and Scandinavia teach kids ENGLISH?
Why are elite prep schools ($22,000+ tuition) on both the West Coast and East Coast teaching WHITE kids Japanese, Mandarin, and Korean, not to mention AP Spanish Literature and Language? They’re being “prepped for success”. Our kids are not, and that spells trouble for Kansas.
A recent KU economics study found that JoCo has above-national-average productivity. Everywhere else in Kansas, including Wichita, is significantly BELOW national average, and the gap has been widening for the past 30 years. (Thirty years ago Wichita was slightly above national average, according to this study.)
The Eagle reported a 65% poverty incidence among USD 259 students. This may be incorrect in that the parameter may be federal-lunch-subsidy eligibility, which I think goes up to 2x the poverty level. Wichita has a substantial private school population. But it may well be that more than 40% of all Wichita students, publicly and privately educated combined, are federal-lunch-subsidy eligible.
Wal-Mart sells a lot of Chinese goods. It allegedly pressures vendors to move their manufacturing operations to China, by telling them that Wal-Mart can get products made there cheaper than American-made products, “So do you want to give us your product at your Chinese-factory competitors’ price, or forget dealing with us, and our vast market that you could be participating in?” This is alleged in the “Wal-Mart Effect”, and by the Wall Street Journal, not that I know this as a personally-witnessed fact.
What is China going to do with its trade surplus? It can buy US Treasurys and stock in the short-term, but eventually it may acquire and create American factories, as Japan does. If it does this, it will provide jobs to Americans.
This global economy is a very complicated issue. We could stop participating in it, but it would require “lifestyle” contraction. Deport Mexicans, and watch your food costs double. So figure out what you need to do to reduce spending in the rest of your household budget. (Given advances in info technology and robotics, we could probably eventually have machines do farm labor, but that would be a long-term development, not something instantaneously possible.) Watch Medicare benefits be eviscerated.
We could go to a Denmark model of major bicycle commuting. Actually, this prevents obesity and is salubrious, lowering health-care costs and early disability. Wichita is pretty flat. I had a friend who used to commute in Boston in the dead of winter. It’s typically as cold, or colder there, than it is in Wichita. Summer is a different story, but morning commutes would be easy. Afternoon commutes home would be really tough, but Kansans are hardy, and besides, that’s why they make Gatorade and bottled water (in American bottling plants to boot!).
Kansas has large wind and natural gas resources. The Rocky Mountain region has natural gas, massive shale-oil, and coal resources. Kansas homes can make some of their own solar electricity. We can increase nuclear power, and bury the waste in Reno County. We can become independent of oil-dependency on foreign countries. We can close ourselves off from the rest of the world, excepting Canada, which doesn’t flood us with illegal immigrants or send terrorists here.
If this is what you want, MOBILIZE. Get people who feel like you do to not show up at work and mount a million-citizen protest in Topeka. Send a million Kansas protesters to Washington, and be part of a 100 million man-woman-and-child march on Washington. Or find and fund Congressional candidates whom you can trust to vote for isolationism. Find and fund a presidential candidate whom you can trust to support isolationism. (You may have to create a third political party to achieve these objectives.)
I guess it’s possible. So if you really want to do it, get out there and give it a try.
Heartlander,Some very good points made, but I think they address many past instances of dealing with immigration. As I stated earlier, the post 9/11 mindset has been an isolationist one. There are many things to consider as to why that is so:
The fact that the terrorists came from a foreign country is one. The pourous borders are another. The fact of there being nuclear weapons floating around the world another. The fact there are racist here in this country another. I could go on and on. But what it boils down to is there ARE laws in place concerning immigration and illegal aliens. Those laws are being violated by people who do not follow immigration policy. In other words, they are criminals in the eyes of the law in this country.
If we decide that these same individuals should be allowed to stay in this country, regardless of the fact they are criminals, then what exactly are laws good for? What laws do we, as a people, decide we should follow, and which we won’t? Isn’t that the beginnings of anarchy?
As I also stated earlier, guest worker programs could be set up and be viable. It would take us as well as foreign countries who wish to allow their citizens to participate, to set it up properly.
But I STILL say, even with all your rhetoric and arguments, that you are wrong: The laws ARE on the books, and being in this country without a passport and visa is a violation of the law. The illegal aliens, from whatever country, are criminals according to the laws of the land. That, again, is not racism, but rule of law.
PL, not to throw fuel on a fire here, but the Lone Star flag is not the stars and bars of the confederacy. What XXX refers to as the southern cross is what I refer to as the stars and bars.
The lone star flag was around LONG before the confederacy.
Texas was a great place to live before it became republican, before the fundies took over and before shrub was governor.
Nobody is opposed to mexican flags, or mexican heritage or anything like that, we are just oppposed to being told that coccasions are not allowed to be racist, but maxicans can. They can say anything they want to about coccasions and nobody does anyhting, but as soon as a coccasion says anything about a mexican, our butt’s get burned, and that’s not fair. If we aren’t allowed to be racist, neither is any other race.
Nobody is opposed to mexican flags, or mexican heritage or anything like that, we are just oppposed to being told that coccasions are not allowed to be racist, but maxicans can. They can say anything they want to about coccasions and nobody does anyhting, but as soon as a coccasion says anything about a mexican, our butt’s get burned, and that’s not fair. If we aren’t allowed to be racist, neither is any other race.
“coccasions are not allowed to be racist”
What’s a coccasion?
I KNOW HOW TO SPEAK ENGLISH, SPANISH, AND EVEN GERMAN… I’VE BEEN ASKING FOR A GREEN CARD AND THEY WONT DO ANYTHING,.THATS WHY IM HERE ILLEGALY…BECAUSE I NEED TO FEED MY CHILDREN.!!!!
Well, carlos, get off the blog and get back to work mowing the grass!
svae rwnsomqv xcfbead sewdu vgpj abxo lcfjth