Harvard professor Harvey C. Mansfield advocates in his new book for more “manliness,” which he sums up as “confidence in the face of risk.” But Washington Post writer Ruth Marcus thinks manliness in government is overrated.
“There are, no doubt, comforting aspects to the manly presidency; think Bush with a bullhorn on top of the smoldering ruins of the twin towers. After a terrorist attack, no one’s looking for a sensitive New Age president. Even now, being a strong leader polls at the top of qualities that voters most admire in Bush.
“But the manliness of the Bush White House has a darker side that has proved more curse than advantage. The prime example is the war in Iraq: the administration’s assertion of the right to engage in preemptive and unilateral war; the resolute avoidance of debate about the ’slam-dunk’ intelligence on weapons of mass destruction; the determined lack of introspection or self-doubt about the course of the war; and the swaggering dismissal of dissenting views as the carping of those not on the team.”
Her conclusion: “What this country could use is a little less manliness — and a little more of what you would describe as womanly qualities: restraint, introspection, a desire for consensus, maybe even a touch of self-doubt.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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38 Comments
Well “manliness” is a good thing I guess if you are “the man”
“Manly” men (or women) make their living off of those they use.
“Manly” folk launch wars….and make others fight them.
“Manly” men don’t answer questions. They issue orders.
I’m a Man. And I think we need a lot less “manly” menand a lot more common sense.
what about if the goverment just includes girls then girly men, makes scence, no?
Any guarantee that these girls would not try to out-”man” the “manly” men?
We’d all feel better if the man leading our nation was out there wind-surfing.
The manly man posing for photo ops is getting old… real old. I am so sick of the photo ops that give this man a false image. Every thing he does and says is to nurture that manly man joe six pack image. The guy is from a extremely wealthy and powerful family from Maine!
Remember on 9/11 when we were attacked? Where was the president? He was in the air to an undisclosed location. Do you remember the lack of leadership during that time? What was going on… who is to blame. A voice of reason was needed.
It took days before he stood at the site of the attack! Now he is manly because he showed up. Come on… I am tired of the spin.
Phillip, There no such thing as a “terrorist.” If common sense doesn’t tell you that, then you need to read more { apparently you must not get out much }.
A good start would be the 9/11 report. In that report they go into the fact that Arabs were paying us back, not “terrorizing us,” for financing Israel to kill and displace very large numbers of Palestinians and steal their homes, farms and land. When the Palestinians fought back to keep their homes, farms and land, the Zionists called them “terrorist” The Zionists had been murdering Palestinians and stealing their homes, farms and land for over 50 years. It was in all the newspapers, hard to miss.
The attack of 9/11 was a retaliatory attack and that attack was named a “terrorist attack” to garner sympathy and money, mainly from the United States,{ the Zionists in New York made a fortune off that deal } and the Zionists used that to expanded the misnomer “terrorist” to include all Arabs { including their religion of Islam } and a global war on the illusion of “terrorism” and that is what has our balls in the vise now.
Please stop using that word so we can deal straightaway with the reality of situation as it stands now in the Middle East.
That would be very helpful.
Thank You, Ed Friedemann
Manliness has nothing to do with starting wars, fist-fights, yadda yadda. It has everything to do with being able to make difficult decisions in the face of adversity, something this administration has trouble doing.
Heheh. If a shiney new red camaro is a penis extention, what is a beefed up military with all their cool toys and guns?
Commander codpiece is a telling nickname for shrub. I saw the flight suit pictures all over the news yesterday. War Daddy wagging his daddy thing and declaring mission accomplished. ROFLMAO
If america wants real protection, elect a MOTHER and stand between her and her young ones and make threatening noises. That will redefine shock and awe for ya!
Hell hath no fury… The male leaders of the world would fear an “angry woman” most of all!!
ksfarmgrl,
In the same sentence you both were critical of the military with all their cool toys and guns they have and then talk about a womans fury?
What is she going to do throw rocks?
There’s nothing wrong with being a “manly” man, to quote a soap commercial. The problem is thinking that it is all you have to do.Wrong.
Nathan,I know you directed your question to Ksfarmgrl but seriously, have you ever tried to get between a mother and child when the mother did not want you too? You would have pulled back a stump! Dude! She would either smack you so hard you were seeing stars, physically attacked you (ie beat you up) or verbally attacked you so you felt so small you could have parachuted off a piece of typing paper.
Nathan, I am critical of cool guns and toys when they are used as penis extentions to show the world how macho war daddy is. Bushco calls it “pre-emptive” I call it “wagging”.
Funny how women manage to defend themselves and make their way in the world without a penis, much less a showy extention of such. You will find no envy in me of that extention or the original model.
I prefer the use of the big head, not the little head. (So to speak…heheheh.) I know shrub gets confused about which one is which. Perhaps an experienced woman could ’splain it to ‘im.
Hee hee julie. How about “so small you could walk under a closed door wearing a top hat!”
The quality of language on this thread could use some improvement, in my opinion.
All I’m gonna say.
We don’t need a “manly” man to run this country, I think a lazy cowardly president would be much better. He would be too lazy to push any mony programs and too cowardly to go to war.
yeah farmgrl – ya don’t mess with mommaThe old saying is true”If momma ain’t happy – ain’t nobody happy”
Daniel – sorry if the language offends you but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade and sometimes war and fighting is measuring each others parts. Kinda like school ground fights where boys beat each other up to prove their masculinity.
Heheh, daniel is offended by using correct names for body parts. Or is it the body parts themselves he finds offensive? Or just the calling out of commander codpiece?
Danny boy, what did you think would be discussed on a “manly-man” thread? Estrogen?
I think when they cant refute the facts, they get huffy about the language. Funny thing, I didnt see any swearing, just wagging and codpiece and penis. :)
Here is a real nasty one for ya:
BOOGER!!
Are you sure Rhonda didn’t write this one?
Next to the slang and jargon dictionary definition of “all hat and no cattle,” they should put that picture of Bush.
And, Daniel, grow up, sheesh . . .
If shrub really were a manly man that would be great but he is not! It disgusts me that so many are taken in by his fake Texas cowboy act. In many ways shrub is a btter actor than either clinton or Reagan.
V.L.R.B!!
You got that right Ian.
He fooled everyone in texas and then everyone in america and then everyone in the world. I dont think he did that by being dumb.
And we let him.
Who’s the dumb one here?
Someone say something about making Mother unhappy? I’ll tell you, kids, when it comes to manly men, I’m finding it more and more difficult to grab one who knows what that means.
Take Bush (please): Now there’s a boy living in a man’s body. His sense on what makes a man is locked up somewhere on another planet. The wimps he surrounds himself with wouldn’t make a pimple on a real man’s ass. Then again, maybe we do need a woman to run the country. There are more out there I would consider real men compared to the wooses running around shouting orders today.
Hell, yes. We DO need a woman to run things, so lets find one and get her elected. 2008: the year of the REAL women! Let the so-called men peel us some grapes. We damn well deserve it.
Mother,
You probably wouldn’t know a manly man if he bit you on the ankle!
V.L.R.B!!
My own sense is that it’s a combination of inadequacy and the remnants of the Civil War. South Midwesterners and Southerners still feel inadequate and undereducated relative to the cosmopolitan and educated eastern folks. On that basis alone, they simply refuse to go along with what they know makes sense because they need to let the easterners know that they can say “no” and throw a tantrum just like a kid…much more so for deep southerners. They need to say “no” and do what is clearly not in their best interests just to show those ejycated folks.
We don’t need the strong like bull, smart like ox type of leaders like GW and dare I say RR. We need educated, nuanced, cunning leaders who know how to backslap, who know policy isssues, who can reason through an international chess problem, and who inspire confidence in their staffs, the American people, and the world.
Ian,You wouldn’t want to know me. I would change you into a fun loving rainbow warrior, rather that the itty-bitty white boy you are.
Brian,Good point. Except those kind of people don’t really know how to get elected. And, bottom line, that’s all it takes – getting elected.
Ian and MOTHER smack down!!
Tickets anyone?
KFG,I’ll hold their coats!:)Hey we could have it aired on Mr.Controversy’s station! Show the love that goes on here at the blog:)
I’ll put 20 bucks on MOTHER!!
Mother,
You should head down to the county lockup as there are probably a whole new bunch of convicts ready for “release” You can ply them with cheap weed and brew and get them all groggy so they won’t be too picky and then you can have your way with them. I am sure that you are a modern day Norma Desmond.
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Don’t listen to Ian, MOTHER, he’s just jealous.
Ian,Sweety, are you upset because I think a woman could run this country better than the boys who attempt to pass for males now? Or do strong female figures frighten you?
I am surprised. With a name such as yours, I would think that your blood would run thick and strong. Evidently, if the above bothers you, it must run thin and weak.
Might I suggest, then, you get your itty bitty bones down to the county lockup yourself and learn a thing or two about “release” yourself, since no self respecting woman would consider teaching you anything. I thought about it, dear, but all little boys want to do is whine, and believe me, I’ve heard enough of that to last a lifetime.
Talking to Ian is like talking to a plastic mannequin at Dillard’s.
Most of us gave up long ago, Mother.
It is regrettable that you misinformed biased posters,including the silly girl who wrote the article (Ruth Marcus) have not bothered to read Mansfield’s exemplary book.
The book is gaining great traction,and you will hear repeated references to “manliness” by talk show hosts and columnists. This is a work of scholarship on the subject, not a topical book. For example, it addresses the Bush Administration, War on Terror,or The President not at all. The closest it comes is the single sentence that “Manly politicians strive to do what they think is right; politicians who lack that quality strive to do what you think is right.” If some wish to relate that to the current and previous administrations, they may, but Mansfield does not.
Rather, it traces manliness both in philosophy (Plato, Hobbes,John Locke, etc.) and art and literature (Sophocles, Red Badge of Courage, Hemingway, TR, High Noon, John Wayne films, etc). Really a very fine in-depth professorial work on this topic.
Some of you need to read it. Repeatedly..
“We need educated, nuanced, cunning leaders who know how to backslap, who know policy isssues, who can reason through an international chess problem, and who inspire confidence in their staffs, the American people, and the world.”
Should I envision a Clinton who could keep his/her pants up? Or should we see one where that question doesn’t matter too much?
steve,That’s all well and good, but relating it to the real world is what this discussion is all about.
While you seem to infer we don’t have a handle on manliness, do to our equating it with the current administration, you give no examples as to how you believe it should be topical, other than to say we should read this book of yours more than once.
Is there some hidden meaning there? Some nuance that might put us on the correct path? Some idiosyncratic pointers? Or is your point to inform us just how uninformed we are?Either way, the book may or may not be a good piece of literature, and I may peruse it, if time permits, but I think I’ll pass on delaying my opinion until I read a book by someone who is apparently going to tell me how wrong I am.
O, ya, steve, Hemmingway killed himself. Real man there, what?
We need another George Washington after how divided America has become.
“A house divided cannot stand.”