As 46 other states came to allow concealed handguns, it became just a question of when and how Kansas would follow. It turns out that when will be sometime before Jan. 1, 2007, and that how was through the Legislature’s votes this week to override Gov. Kathleen Sebelius’ latest veto. The hope now becomes that the law, in practice, will contradict Sebelius’ assertion that “hidden weapons make it harder for law enforcement to do its job, and they make Kansas’ workplaces less safe.” Responsible permit holders can prove her wrong.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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260 Comments
I can’t believe I haven’t been shot already.
YeeHaww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s open season on criminal scum fo sho!!!!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!!
All we need now is “stand your ground” legislation and we will be good to go. :)
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
From A Nation of Cowards by Jeffrey R. Snyder-
“Many people deal with the problem of crime by convincing themselves that they live, work, and travel only in special “crime-free” zones. Invariably, they react with shock and hurt surprise when they discover that criminals do not play by the rules and do not respect these imaginary boundaries. If, however, you understand that crime can occur anywhere at anytime, and if you understand that you can be maimed or mortally wounded in mere seconds, you may wish to consider whether you are willing to place the responsibility for safeguarding your life in the hands of others.”
The entire essay is a good read, particularly for those among us who expect others to risk their own lives to protect us.
http://www.rkba.org/comment/cowards.html
Amen!
The governor lost one..the people overwhelmingly support this idea, and the legislature responded.
The system is certainly not perfect, but it does work…
More from a Nation of Cowards-
“Conservatives must understand that the antipathy many liberals have for gun owners arises in good measure from their statist utopianism. This habit of mind has nowhere been better explored than in The Republic. There, Plato argues that the perfectly just society is one in which an unarmed people exhibit virtue by minding their own business in the performance of their assigned functions, while the government of philosopher-kings, above the law and protected by armed guardians unquestioning in their loyalty to the state, engineers, implements, and fine-tunes the creation of that society, aided and abetted by myths that both hide and justify their totalitarian manipulation.”
Passing concealed carry is the dumbest thing yet the Legislature has done. To quote the town judge in the movie “Nobody’s Fool,” “If you arm one moron, you have to arm them all.” Congratulations Phil Journey, you have just armed the morons.
Low iq black and beaner criminals are already armed with ILLEGAL weapons you coconut! Our founding fathers did not envision a multiracial pesthole but they did want us to be well armed to deal with evil, corrupt, and tyrannical government and we have that as well!
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
The morons will remain unarmed unless they are hypocrites and decide to take advantage of what they were afraid to stand up for.
I’ll make a prediction now:
1) Relative few, percentage-wise, will obtain permits.
2) There will be little or no impact that people will notice day to day.
3) The fears expressed by many will not come to pass; neither will the benefits be particularably measurable.
Tempest in a teapot, but an important tempest for those who feel strongly about the issue.
Relax – you all have nothing to fear from the holder who puts himself under the law enforcement microscope to get a permit.
It’s been fun, all.
Great! Half the people you see can’t operate a turn-signal lever, and we know they can’t drive and talk on the phone, so we arm them after 15 minutes of “training”. Further, the people responsible for passing this Bill, make sre that it does not apply to their work area. What I don’t understand, is where and what is this crime wave we have prevented?
Great,
I never had any desire to carry a gun. But based on the folks I have seen here who will now be armed, I will be forced now to get a gun to protect myself from them.
Ian I think you said it best and Don I would have to agree.. side note I wonder how KFG will bring the other issues into this one??;)
gster
In the 2004 bill Carry in Congress was allowed. It wasnt put in this time around because they new that the members leaning anti would never vote for it.
I believe that Tejas allows carry in the legislature and you know what, nobodies been murdered there.
Excellent post, GM. 46 other states have carry concealed laws, and unless the papers have been hiding it, there have not been massive slaughters, duels in the streets, etc.
Totally agree about the tempest in a teapot, GM.
Now Rock you shouldnt bait her that way. Just a thought though: the criminals will pick on people who fit the gay profile since they are usually liberal and not likely to pack heat. That would make it, what, a discrimination issue?
KFG is a known quantity here “rock” you are not. And if folks like you , Heckler, and Don are gonna be armed you can bet I’m gonna be armed as well.
JR -
“I never had any desire to carry a gun. But based on the folks I have seen here who will now be armed, I will be forced now to get a gun to protect myself from them.”
You must have a rather inflated sense of your self-importance. Hot air does that!!
Heckler
“I believe that Tejas allows carry in the legislature and you know what, nobodies been murdered there”
If no one has been murdered, why the need to carry a gun?
Answer my questions on the other thread rockl.
Gun training class will be laugh out loud fun for hours. Will friends be made there or suspiscions of each other increasing because some look like they shouldn’t be carrying a gun legally. Others will believe they are so righteous to carry, defender of society.
Then we’ll be let out and freer to please ourselves just a little more. Picking the actual weapon to carry. What ammunition best drops a person. Would it only be one shot if a criminal is put down or a full clip emptied. Think I prefer revolvers for that classic look and feel. Who will carry a Ruger? Snubnose or a big Desert Eagle. What great converstations those will be at parties.
Practicing in mirrors for quicker retrieval. Which side of the body to pack it concealed. Under arm, in a crotch or crease.
Wasting mental time preparing the gun and keeping it clean. Does the business allow guns are you going to carry it in regardless. It is concealed who would know.
Kansas is being failed by our politicians. Can’t find money for schools yet its more guns on the street. It could make the state millions of dollars for those licenses, that’s finding revenue in the worst way.
You do make some points to think about mrage.
KFG is a known quantity here “rock” you are not.
Known qty? Sounds to me like the three mentioned are a ‘change’. Isnt that what the polygamy thread was all about? You accusing us of fearing change? Typical hypocrite.
no biggie!! lol
Studies show that CC has absolutely no impact on crime.
What I hear from people who do carry guns for a living, police officers, it’s kind of a pain in the butt.
But let Heckler carry around his 9mm, his .45 or his .357 magnum. Some guys have a real need for a “magnum,” some guys more than others if ya know what I mean . . .
Or better yet, he can pack a Walther PPK 7.56mm and pretend he’s James Bond.
I’m so glad the “grown ups” are in charge, aren’t you?
Sounds like you have no issue with it. I like that! It strikes me as very libertarian of you ProudLib. If it is a crummy idea, the public marketplace will see to its demise. Damned I hate agreeing with people sometimes!
Don and Rock,It’s just you have to prove yourselves to these bloggers before they take you seriously. Kinda like the initiation. But once you get to know them they really are nice people. You’ll figure out whose hotbuttons are what. (Rock I think you know what KFG’s are)I for one am glad for the new blood so welcome.
Well said Proud lib
I still don’t know why they don’t want them in churches. If we have to have accidents………well at least there they could be seen as the “will of god”
Thank you Miss Julie. I appreciate your welcome. Though I dont intend to post too often I enjoy a good exchange of ideas, whether I buy into them or not!
Well, more guns mean more gun accidents as our Vice President so ably showed a couple of weeks ago, so I oppose it on practical grounds, but I don’t oppose it politically.
I think the main effect is that a few gun nuts will be able to carry guns to some places (no bars, courts, churches, or gov’t offices) that they couldn’t otherwise, and everybody else will keep as they are.
I love the way the conservative Kansas State House exempted their workplace from CC, though.
Talk about hypocrites, oh man . . .
Ah, good point. The same accident thought could apply to anything though. Cars, boats, hammers. They are all just tools.
As an aside, I have been really alienated by the mad spenders in Washington and am reconsidering my political loyalties. If there were only a third party that was powerful enough to split the other two…
Can’t you just see Phil Journey with a holster on his hip during legislative debates?
ProudlibDo you think that the accident might have been different if they were not hunting?? I am undecieded really about the gun issue.. I guess I see both sides..It is nice to have the protection if you need it.. I mean afterall the criminals do, but I think it is going to cause some problems as well. It will be interesting to see how it all comes together.
Rockl–
I have protection.
It’s called a cell phone.
True, Don M, but a hammer’s main purpose isn’t to kill something.
In my mind, that makes a gun somewhat more dangerous than a hammer.
I let my kids (and even encourage them to) play with hammers, heh.
Oooohh! A cell phone! That will terrify a criminal! Why, I’ll bet you could hold them at antenna point till the police arrive!
I doubt that CCW will have much impact on crime, but I also tend to think the net effect will be to decrease violent crime. I do think the incentives are lined up correctly with CCW.
Accidental gunshots, though, may be a different story. I kinda suspect that a couple unintended results will be, one, to bring back into vogue the old “One Bullet” Barney stereotype and two, an uptick in business for Kansas surgeons. There are bound to be more Kansans who unintentionally ventilate various body parts as a result of this law, if only because said Kansans now have more opportunity to handle their weapon.
Good news about the “mad spenders,” though.
The federal government is the biggest employer in the country.
I’m a liberal but I’m not for the people serving gov’t–it’s supposed to be the other way around.
We need leadership to identify priorities and redistribute the revenues for sustainable spending.
What we have now is totally unsustainable. We’re in agreement on that.
Mrage -
Having been to a gun training class (twice) where I would have qualified, were I an officer (twice), I can tell you that the class is nothing like that. This forum is full of hyperbole, ad hominum attacks, and statements made entirely for effect; you’ll find little of that there. We understand it is deadly serious, and understand exactly the enourmous responsibility we shoulder should we choose to carry.
The “no carry” zones are meaningless; they are nothing but limitations put in to placate waverers into voting for the bill. If a person is trustworthy to carry in public, is he less trustworthy in a church, etc.? Of course not. After a couple of years, when it is apparant that the fears expressed here are little more than blather, perhaps we can begin to remove those annoyances.
I invite you all to take the class with me. Know what you’re talking about, then come back and post.
True, but that makes it a tool nonetheless. It is just a means to an end. More efficient that a club. Like a table saw instead of a hand saw. In Hollywood gore, a table saw is a weapon. To most people that think straight, it is merely an efficient way to cut wood.
Some things are worth dying for, and in some cases, lethal force is justified. To that end, I want a table saw, not a hand saw.
Final thought on this subject-
From the opening blurb:”The hope now becomes that the law, in practice, will contradict Sebelius’ assertion that “hidden weapons make it harder for law enforcement to do its job, and they make Kansas’ workplaces less safe.” Responsible permit holders can prove her wrong.”
They will. No doubt. They have in every other state.
The subject certainly raises passions, however; that is obvious from the number of posters.
That said, I wish you all a good day. See you at the range.
At last, a senseable CC law in Kansas. I’ll be very interested to see how managing it shakes out. Will it be expensive? Who has to take training? I’m a combat vet. Are they going to teach me how to safely handle a gun? Will there be a range test? Will they issue a license to someone who can’t shoot straight?
I look forward to getting my license!
GMC, when you return, can you tell me where a good range is? The last range I was on was at Ft. Riley a long time ago and I have been wanting to take up shooting again. Thanks in advance!
XXX I trust with a gun.
Ther members of the high church of bushiseverright, nope. Mind your manners wingnuts. This liberal is packin’!
“Hidden weapons make it harder for law enforcement to do its job”If a CCW permit holder has contact with law enforcement, law enforecement will know before they approach on a traffic stop or if they call dispatch that this person has a permit and may be carrying. This law will protect law enforcement a little because they’ll at least have knowledge that there is a possiblity of a weapon if they search.With all the new generation of gang bangers coming up it’s hard for police to know because a lot of these are minors that haven’t really gotten a rap sheet (yet).
Don,The Bullet Stop is a really nice indoor range. Cheney Lake also has an outdoor range that’s decent.
Don:
I shoot at Bullseye, roughly 13th and Oliver. 25 yards indoor for pistols, 100 yards indoor for rifles. Nice staff.
Shot a excellent Springfield champion they loaned me there – excellent round on round accuracy with a pistol I was new too. Gotta get me one of those!!
Hope to see you there.
Thank you! I have had a lovely time today. Hope to see you all again soon!
new TO; not new too.
Edit . . . Edit . . . Edit . . .
GMC -I take it you weren’t an English teacher ;)
Did I violate another rule? Probably. You’re right, while I did teach, it wasn’t English.
Something about the “to” at the end, I’d guess? There’s probably a name for that, guessing -preposition? Probably not spelled right.
Oh well. ;0
ProudLib
If you have to make fun of me at least be a little more original about it, I know that you can do better.
You are dud wrong on “more guns mean more accidents”. For the last year data was compiled firearm accidents were at an all time low since the Feds started keeping track. More guns and more people in the US than at any time in history, and the lowest number of accidental deaths since they started keeping track. I guess it’s because the number of liberals is going down.
Considering the average American reads at the 8th grade level and Jerry Springer is the number #1 show on TV, I don’t think the average Joe should be trusted to carry a handgun responsibily. We already have 12 times the number of gun related deaths than all other industrialized countries combined.5,000 American children die each year in gun related accidents and another 20,000 are wounded.Lib, NO study proves that conceal and carry laws have no impact on gun related deaths, the data is still being collected and analyzed.
More guns=more death, it’s that simple.
Heckler, you’re wrong.Studies show that where guns are more availavble, there are more gun related deaths. That’s from reliable sources, not your NRA propaganda web sites.
I have another quote from A Nation of Cowards for some of you- you know who you are.
” In truth, one who believes it wrong to arm himself against criminal violence shows contempt of God’s gift of life (or, in modern parlance, does not properly value himself), does not live up to his responsibilities to his family and community, and proclaims himself mentally and morally deficient, because he does not trust himself to behave responsibly.”
GMC,
I look forward to meeting others in the training class. Its too bad that class isn’t enough training.
I can’t take the seriousness well, that people will be instantly responsible with their gun out in public. I hope for some laughs in class becuase its only fear and suspiscion with other class members that silence and seriousness is too much during those hours.
How many people are in a gun training class?
When the topic is No Guns Allowed signs, do you stand up and say that’s just nonsense rules! I would like that kind of discussion in class, people disregarding a business and its gun toting rules.
I’m not walking out of there as any kind of expert handling a gun or concealing it after 8 hours of talking. Do I have to shoot a handgun with some accuracy during the class? Like passing the driving test?
My 11 yr old nephew died because some stupid moron who lived in the neighborhood didn’t keep his gun cabinet locked and his 10 yr grandson got hold of his gun. All you who think that what our society needs is more guns make me sick.
Fools rush in…….
Damoon
A cousin of mine killed a friend of his because he thought the pistol he found in the garage was a toy. The boy was 6. It didnt make me fear guns, it made me more carefull.
Several friends and family members of mine have died in car accidents. It doesnt make me fear or hate cars, it makes me more careful when driving.
The husband of a co-worker I knew years ago died when his chainsaw kicked back and cut his throat, it didn’t make me fear chainsaws, it made me handle them with more respect.
Too many morons in this country, that’s why we have so many gun related deaths. YOU might handle a gun with care, but for everyone like you, there are 20 idiots who have no business owning a handgun. You’ll see, in a few years when the numbers come in, we’ll know that the conceal and carry laws weren’t a good idea.
OK you conceal carry fans you got what you wanted. I know this does not need to be said but I’m going to throw it out there just for kicks. Since you all are honest citizens we do not have to worry that you have begun carrying your biggest, most powerful gun before you have your permit do we? In addition we do not have to worry that you are carrying your big gun in places where they do not want your gun do we? You would not secrete the gun just to be safe even though the establishment requests that you do not? I’m sure you would not because you are the law abiding citizens. Have fun out there gunnies.
I freely admit to not being a gun advocate, but I’d like to try to see this from the angle of gun owners. There are a few questions that always come to my mind when the subject of guns comes up, so humor me.
1. What is the main reason you own a gun?
2. What type of gun do you have? Shotgun? Rifle? Handgun? AK47? If you have several, which do you think of as your “main” gun?
3. Where do you keep your gun (don’t be specific, please)? Your bedroom? Basement? Living room closet?
4. Do you have children in your home? Do they know where your gun and ammunition are kept? Have your children (or child) had gun safety training or have you given them training?
5. Do you keep your ammunition in a separate place or in your gun? If in your gun, do you have a trigger lock on it? If so, do you keep the key in a separate place?
5. With CC now ready to be enacted, where do you think you will need to take your gun and why? In other words, if the majority of your day is spent at work, and your workplace (among other places) bans guns, where do you go that you feel you need the protection of a firearm?
Thanks guys! (And gals, too.)
Damoon,
You are mixing up different issues. We are talking about concealed carry.
More guns might equal more deaths. Are we talking about death of criminals or death of innocent people?
5,000 kids killed each year by accident?
What is your data? Mine says less than a 1,000 people in total are killed by unintentional accidental discharge of a firearm each year.
Damoon, your arguments are agout “gun availability” causing more gun related deaths not concealed carry.
Proportionally speaking… do you know how many guns are owned legally in this country and how many people legally own guns?
You love to thorw around that more guns equals more death crap of an argument.
I can say that more anything will cause more death by that anything.
It is a silly argument that has nothing to do with concealed carry and everything to do with your illogical emotionally based fear of guns.
For all those interested I am a Marine Corps marksmanship instructor.
I have no problem giving some refresher courses on marksmanship/gun safety/gun handling/gun operation with anyone interested.
I have no problem helping those of you who may have never even held a gun let alone fire one so you can go to the concelaed carry license class with enough knowledge to not be nervous.
One of my passions is helping others learn about guns.
RD,
1. Protection of myself, loved ones, others, my property. Secondary reasons would be my passion for shooting and collection.
2. I can’t afford too many guns right now. I have a bushmaster M4 assualt rifle, a HK USP .45, a .22 rifle and that is it. I will be prchasing a smaller handgun for the concealed carry though. Probable a sprinfield 1911 type .45.
3. I have a quick release safe in my room.
4. No kids. I have roommates and I have given them all basic safety rules on handling a gun.
5. I will take my gun everywhere I go. I will remove it at places that do not allow it.
Sorry Nathan, statistics show that there are almost 30,000 gun related deaths in this country every year, 5,000 being children under the age of 14. Over 50,000 Americans are wounded with guns every year, 20,000 of those are children. Look it up if you don’t believe me. Gun deaths in this country is 12 TIMES the number of gun deaths in all other industrialized nations COMBINED.Just because YOU say it’s not a problem doesn’t mean it’s not.I’m surprised that someone like you, who abhors the idea of abortion, endorses something that kills so many children in this country every year.
If you have a child and keep a gun in the house, your child is 6 times more likely to die from a gun related homocide or accident.
Just the facts.
Damoon,I am on your side on this one. This, like many arguments, is one that people have made up their minds on, and no amount of facts, etc. will change that.
JR, thanks for the vote of comfidence.
The basis of CC is responsible gun ownership. Probably most of the pro-gun posters here fit that pattern. But there’s more to it than just being a big-shot and carrying a “cannon”. Anybody who carries a gun needs to make sure they’re ready to take the responsibility.
A question:
How many of the posters here have ever seen anybody get shot? It’s not like on TV, I assure you.
How many of the posters here have actually shot anyone? The decision to use deadly force is made in a split second. It’s not a decision you get to consider and think through. And once you make that decision, you have to live with it. If you kill somebody, you can’t take it back, you can’t turn it around. You have to live with it. And if you’re any kind of a human being, if you have any faith, it’ll eat at you for the rest of your life. If you have any heart at all, there is no way to describe what goes through your mind, your soul when you see the lights go out in another human being’s eyes.
Carrying a weapon is a grave responsibility and before you make that decision, you need to consider who you really are and what the consequinces of your actions will be.
Add another, Dammon. Women carrying guns are in greater danger because they are more easily overpowered.
Somehow I don’t think this would apply to KFG. I just can’t see her being overpowered. She’d kill em with words first. (I mean that in a NICE way, KFG.)
wow xxx you make a good point.. i would hate to have to end someones life, if it came to protecting my kids I am sure I could but I am unsure if I could for anyother reason.. I hope I never have to find out. It sounds like a horrible thing to live with.
Thanks, Nathan. I think I’ll gather the results we get here and see where everyone stands. If that’s okay?
I have a couple of questions about your answers, just for clarification.
“3. I have a quick release safe in my room.”
I’m assuming that means you have one gun (at least) fully loaded? (I’m not judging here, Nathan. I swear.)
“5. I will take my gun everywhere I go. I will remove it at places that do not allow it.”
I completely trust you to remove it, Nathan. I have no qualms about that. But when you say “everywhere,” I assume you mean you’ll carry it in your vehicle. And I don’t have a clue what places will deny guns, but I’m trying to visualize why people need to carry a gun into, say, McDonalds. I can understand if you spend time (by choice, chance, or necessity) in an area where crime is high, but…
“Carrying a weapon is a grave responsibility and before you make that decision, you need to consider who you really are and what the consequinces of your actions will be.”
XXX, the above was one of the best posts I’ve ever read on this blog. This is a little off-topic, but I will bring it back, I promise.
Community research samples show that dreams are 70% of the time focused on negative emotional material. I have a recurring nightmare – not real often, but have had it a number of times – whereby the dream starts where I have just killed someone. The rest of the troubling dream is me figuring out how I am going to live with myself.
I don’t want to live that nightmare and that is one reason why I won’t conceal and carry. I do keep a baseball bat in my front closet and I pray I never have to use it.
YOU oughtta be the gun instructor X.
That last post of yours proves it.
But a lot of those folks upthread? Seeing their posts over time, they are dime store cowboys waiting for an opportunity.
Rock, I assure you it is hard to live with. That said, there are perfectly sound reasons to carry a weapon. My advice to any single woman with a good head on her shoulders is, get a gun, learn how to use it, and carry it (don’t use it on your ex). Most women aren’t strong enough to fend off a male attacker, so even the odds.
Most of the time, you don’t have to shoot an attacker. Put the first bullet in the ground (don’t shoot into the air…you don’t know where the damn thing will land). When you discharge a weapon, there’s going to be a hell of a loud boom, at night there’ll be a fireball, and anybody with half a brain is going to run away. If they don’t run away, aim for the low center of the torso and pull the trigger.
Damoon
Why don’t you seperate the numbers according to households who own guns legally and households that own guns illegally. You’ll find that there is a large discrepancy.
Over 500,000 guns are stolen anually from legal gun owners.Why separate it out, Heck? Numbers are numbers. When a child is killed because of some careless adult, does it matter that the gun was legal or illegal? The child is just as dead.
OMG RD, I am still on the floor laughing.
You are so right. If a potential can get through the barage of words (you should hear me in an unfettered, uncensore swearting fit) a freakin’ gun is not gonna be a problem for any would be attacker!
HA!
If you wanna kill me, you dont need to catch me without my gun…you need to catch me without my mouth!!!!
Damoon, excellant rejoiner. I don’t think the lives of children of illegal gun owners are automatically worth less. This comment tells one a lot about who we’re disagreeing with here.
Oh my gosh, see? I am laughing so hard I cant type!
That said, I do own guns, all shotguns of varying sizes. I am storing a couple of rifles for friends, but I dont use them.
I dont own a handgun, nor would I ever carry one, concealed or not. For the same reasons xxx stated above. Once that shot leaves the barrel, death is on its way. Non stop. Express lane. No turning back.
I made the decision not to carry long ago, after reading about how likely a gun totin’ woman is likely to have that very gun used against her.
I also looked inside, as x said, and decided who I am is a person who could not kill another. Even to save my own life or the life of another. (Well maybe the life of my dog :)
Which brings me to my last point here. I have traveled hundreds of thousands of miles over the last 20+ years. I traveled alone and at all times of the day and night. All kinds of roads and towns, little and big.
Nothing ever made me feel as safe, in my car, at a rest stop, a hotel, anywhere, as my faithful dog at my side. She was a big dog, and would only lick someone to death, but no one knew that but me. And… no one EVER approached me with any mischief when I had my dog along.
I say we all carry dogs, and treats, not guns.
X if your ever giving lessons let me know..
LOL Rock, that sounds like fun (giving gun lessons), but I’ll bet that would be a regulatory nightmare. But I probably will train any of my friends who ask.I’m sure I’d be better at moral rather than technical aspects. If you decide that carrying a weapon is right for you, let me know. We’ll work something up.
thanks I will let you know..
thanks I will let you know..
DD,”I have a recurring nightmare – not real often, but have had it a number of times – whereby the dream starts where I have just killed someone. The rest of the troubling dream is me figuring out how I am going to live with myself.”
If you have dreams and thoughts like that, you’re absolutely the kind of person I’d trust to carry a weapon. Anybody who doesn’t have that kind of reservation has no business carrying a gun.
RD,Answers to your questions.
1. What is the main reason you own a gun?
A gun is a masterpiece of mechanics. The craftsmanship that goes into a fine firearm is a thing of beauty. I’m a mechanical person and I appreciate a good piece of mechanics. I also don’t trust the government. An armed society goes a long way toward keeping the government in line.
2. What type of gun do you have? Shotgun? Rifle? Handgun? AK47? If you have several, which do you think of as your “main” gun?
I have a sawed off 12 gauge shotgun (I used to live in the country. It was excellent for varments) and a 410.I have several handguns, semi-automatic, several hunting rifles from 30 cal to 30-06 and 308. I built the 308 from a Remington breach and a 30 cal machine gun barrel. I don’t have an AK 47, but I’d like to have one for my collection. They look like a cheap piece of junk, but they were one of the most dependable combat weapons ever built. don’t have a “Main gun” since I sold my 44 mag Anaconda.
3. Where do you keep your gun (don’t be specific, please)? Your bedroom? Basement? Living room closet?
Yes
4. Do you have children in your home? Do they know where your gun and ammunition are kept? Have your children (or child) had gun safety training or have you given them training?
I don’t have children in my home. There are never children in my house.
5. Do you keep your ammunition in a separate place or in your gun? If in your gun, do you have a trigger lock on it? If so, do you keep the key in a separate place?
My handguns are loaded, the rifles aren’t, the sawed-off is. An unloaded gun is a paperweight. all of my weapons are on safe and don’t have rounds in the chamber.
5. With CC now ready to be enacted, where do you think you will need to take your gun and why?
I’ve been in Wichita for about 6 years. I’ve had a gun pointed at me and I’ve been attacked. My reason is purely self-defense.
Thanks, XXX.
KFG,How’s the deer hunting out your way?
RD -
You’re being serious (unlike so many here) so I’ll answer as best I can, seriously.
1. Main reason? First, I enjoy hunting and hooting; it’s a great stress reliever. Second, my ability to use a firearm may save my life or another’s someday. Third, I firmly believe that an armed people are the ultimate check on government authority, a position the Founders endorsed as well.
2. I’ll not be too specific, but a .357 revolver and two 9mm autos. Hope to pick up a Springfield 1911 soon. Several rifles as well: .270, SKS. .30-30 lever gun, .22 (my grandfather’s), and 3 shotguns.
3. Long guns in a closet. Don’t have a safe, (no space for it) but rifles kept unloaded, of course, and ammo separate. Lets just say the handguns are ready, should that be necessary.
4. Kids? Yes, three boys. None small, all gun-trained and competent shooters. I believe everyone should have basic gun training.
5. Ammo separate? Yes with the exception noted above. Trigger locks are a fine idea, but not necessarily for everyone nor all the time. Should you need it quickly, that trigger lock may get you killed. That is a personal decision, of course.
5. Where will I carry? Everywhere I may legally do so. Period. But neither you, nor anyone else, will ever know it. (God willing).
And Mrage – I agree. One eight hour course is not enough. If I were writing the bill, I’d have required more. If the Gov. had seen the writing on the wall, she could have insisted in more, and gotten it, with Phil Journey welcoming her aboard. But that’s done.
As to the classes – We’ll have to see how the classes shake out. I’ve taken LEO courses, but this will be different, I’d guess. I think it would take at least two hours of classroom, including some fairly intense legal education (I’d volunteer to teach that part). A range proficiency must be part of it, and then regular practice MUST be part of it. I’m sure there will be light moments, but make no mistake of the serious responsibility one is taking on if one chooses to carry.
As to businesses who post “No Guns” – if possible, I will take my business elsewhere. The proprietors will also be told why I take my business elsewhere. If they think about it, they will realize they have nothing to fear.
I have something of an opposite take.
There are posters who have talked of guns on these blogs that I truly feel should not have them. The idea that they will soon have them is truly disturbing to me.
I had a different take looking inside myself as has been mentioned.
I truly feel that some on the right including many posters here would have absolutely no problem at all drawing their weapon and killing me because I think different from them. I don’t believe in their god, and I don’t think America is always right or even often right and I do not want to be afraid to say so. Their version of a “polite society” means I either shut up or defend myself.
And when I look inside I must say that I am absolutely capable of using a gun rather than shutting up because they have one.
Good points JR.
XXX, the deer hunting is good! Especially up on the Saline, but lots of white tail and muley around my farm.
The bird hunting is better. That’s more my style. And all I ever used guns for, other than blue rock. I still love the smell of roasting clay pidgeons. :)
All this reminds me of another John Prine chours:
“where the air smelled like snakes, we’d shoot with our pistols but empty pop bottles was all we would kill”
JR
Your fears say more about you than anyone else. With the exception of Ian (he’s a nut) I’ve read nothing on any of these posts which causes me concern. I don’t fear those I disagree with; on the contrary, their company is often the most interesting.
Assuming you qualify (I’m sure you do), if you choose to carry: get trained, keep practiced, and good luck – I hope you never have to use it. I know you understand the awesome responsibility you take on, as we all do.
Why JR, I do believe you’re turning into an armed Liberal. Your operative words are “Defend Myself”.
A man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do….
Let’s do some range time.
Dear RD,
1. What is the main reason you own a gun?
Recreation. I enjoy target shooting. Then protection. I usually have a gun handy in my vehicles and home. I believe they have saved me from harm more than once.
2. What type of gun do you have? Shotgun? Rifle? Handgun? AK47? If you have several, which do you think of as your “main” gun?
I’ve reduced my collection in recent years. One 12 guage shotgun (870) and a few 45 cal pistols. My wife has a 38 special she keeps in her night stand. I stick with 45s to keep my ammo needs simple.
3. Where do you keep your gun (don’t be specific, please)? Your bedroom? Basement? Living room closet?
In the console of my pickup or under the seat of my car. In my night stand. In the closet by my door. In the cabinet above the driver’s seat in my motor home.
4. Do you have children in your home? Do they know where your gun and ammunition are kept? Have your children (or child) had gun safety training or have you given them training?
No children. I put guns up when we have guests. We have a liberal friend that visits from CO every now and then. When she learned that I owned a gun she freaked out. She’s never seen one of my guns, she just couldn’t believe I owned one.
5. Do you keep your ammunition in a separate place or in your gun? If in your gun, do you have a trigger lock on it? If so, do you keep the key in a separate place?
No. Most of my ammo is in my closet. My guns are everywhere. Loaded. Rounds in the chambers. My wife’s pistol is either loaded or not, usually loaded if I’m out of town. Don’t own a trigger lock. Wouldn’t use one if you gave me one.
5. With CC now ready to be enacted, where do you think you will need to take your gun and why? In other words, if the majority of your day is spent at work, and your workplace (among other places) bans guns, where do you go that you feel you need the protection of a firearm?
I’m not really too paranoid. I’ll probably never carry a gun concealed without a specific reason. A few months ago I trapped 35 drunk college kids up at our stables until the sherrif deputies arrived. I didn’t see any reason to carry my gun up there, but I had one in my truck.
Now, let me add a TTBOI or two you didn’t as for:
I’ll probably get a license to CC. Just because I can.
I think that actually carrying a concealed weapon will have less to do with reducing crime than the mere knowledge that people can carry if they want to. Instead I’ll probably just put another NRA sticker on my PU.
The CC law will not really change my life very much. I’ve always carried a gun when ever I wanted to, for any reason I wanted. I just don’t see much need to in my every day life.
Hank
Sorry GMC but you are one of the ones I am referring to. That list would also include heckler, Don Murphy, and Joe Blow.
I consider myself a pretty good judge of character. I did post my trust in XXX to carry BEFORE his most eloquent post as to what it takes to fire a weapon and kill another person.
I do not have that trust in the posters I mention and some others I missed.
Dear JR,
You should ask Nathan to take you to the range. We have a variety of handguns you could try and he is one of the best instructors that I know. I’ll supply the ammo and the targets, I have a life time supply of wad cutters!
Hank
Since the current topic on open thread is death threats, I’d say my concerns as to some posters are warranted.
I forgot to mention that I keep all of my handguns loaded with Black Talon ammo. It expands and fragments in the human body and is very deadly. Also it is very safe to use in the house, it won’t go through someone and accidentally kill one of my dogs!
My shotgun is loaded with double ought.
Hank
GMC70
I guess we wont be taking a training class or going shooting with JR. It’s a shame.
Hank, I hope you keep plenty of rags and cleaning solution on hand.
Having served in Viet Nam, I know first hand what a bullet does to a human body. It never is a pretty sight. Upon my return to the states, I was a bit tramatized. That is something I am not ashamed to admit to anybody. In my opinion, war does that.
I told myself I would never own a gun for that very reason, and I had no problem keeping that pledge to myself for many years. However, when I returned to Kansas in the mid 90’s, I learned there are other purposes to gun ownership that don’t include shooting people. One of them was hunting.
So I bought myself a shotgun, practiced until I became a semi-proficient and SAFE hunter, and took up the awesome sport of Pheasant hunting.
Since that time, I bought a rifle for deer hunting, but have not gone yet, and a pistol for home protection. I am fully trained in the use of all three, consider myself safe and sane, and if the need arose, would have no problem with applying for a concealed carry permit.
The mountains of data available from every other state that has passed a concealed carry law show nothing less than the law has had little or no effect on handgun violence. There have been no gun fights at the OK corral, no cowerdly back shootings by drunk morons, and very few arrests of licensed individuals violating the carry law.
As GMC70 said, it is a non-issue.
JR
Would you care to inform me of ANY statements I have made that would lead you or any other sane person to believe I put them at risk? Unlike a few others here (a very few, none serious, I suspect), I’ve made no threats to anyone. At any time. In any manner.
So . . . upon exactly what do you base this inherent mistrust? Gosh – I haven’t shot anyone in, say, three weeks! (that’s a joke)
On the question, I’m being serious: upon what do you base this fear? Do you really fear those who simply disagree with you politically? Do you consider one who is conservative inherently unstable and irrational? If so, I feel sorry for you.
Can you not see that reasonable people may disagree on any number of subjects, and still get along – even be friends?
RD,Thought I’d put my 2 cents in responding to your questions
1. What is the main reason you own a gun?–I (like KFG) live in the country. We get coyotes, foxes, stray dogs etc. My hubby is a gun enthusiast. So protection and fun is our deal.
2. What type of gun do you have? Shotgun? Rifle? Handgun? AK47? If you have several, which do you think of as your “main” gun?-We’ve got black powder muskets but that was a gift to hubby, mainly it’s for show. We have BB, pellet and a .22 for the critters. Something bigger we’ve got a .40 (I can shoot it but it has a big kickback for me so I’m not that comfortable)3. Where do you keep your gun (don’t be specific, please)? Your bedroom? Basement? Living room closet?–Kitchen Pantry and Master bedroom
4. Do you have children in your home? Do they know where your gun and ammunition are kept? Have your children (or child) had gun safety training or have you given them training?–Yesthe boy is 12 and is active in BoyScouts – fully certifiedthe girl is 3 and knows better than to try (she’s been disciplined)5. Do you keep your ammunition in a separate place or in your gun? If in your gun, do you have a trigger lock on it? If so, do you keep the key in a separate place?–Ammo is separate but close for the .40 and .22 the BB’s and Pellets have ammo in them at all time (’cause that’s what we use most often for the critters)
5. With CC now ready to be enacted, where do you think you will need to take your gun and why?–I won’t be registered (I have too many business dealings in places I can’t carry, plus I don’t want that responsibility – but I do carry a billyclub type stick in the car) but hubby will. He travels occasionally for the job and we’ve had some situations while traveling plus he’s a former Sherriff’s Officer so he’s been trained.
JR your kidding right… you think because someone doesn’t agree wtih your lifestyle that if they cc they will kill you… I am sorry but this seems absurd to me. KFG and I went at it pretty hard but I would never even have a thought about hurting her or anyone for their beliefs or lack there of..
I find it sad that the world has been so hard on you that you would have to fear such a thing..
Rock, I wouldn’t dismiss JR’s concerns lightly. We’ve had a death threat because of a silly disagreement.
A lot of us regulars on this blog know eachother. But there are a lot of people (including you) that we don’t know. Seems to be a lot of new folks lately (that’s a good thing generally), and we’ve had problems in the past with trolls.
There are a lot of really twisted people in this world and you sure as hell run into some of them on the internet, and sometimes, on this blog. Sometimes, a healthy dose of paranoia isn’t a bad thing.
As I said, you’re new…don’t judge JR till you get to know him. He’s quite a character and an icon on these threads.
Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean people aren’t out to get you, lol.
We DEFINATELY don’t want the old Dallas episode to come true – “Who shot JR?”(I know I’m dating myself with that reference but I was in EARLY elementary school as a student.)
RD,
“I’m assuming that means you have one gun (at least) fully loaded?”
I have my .45 loaded with 2 spare magazines loaded.
“But when you say “everywhere,” I assume you mean you’ll carry it in your vehicle.”
I already carry my gun concealed in my truck most of the time. I just wont be a law breaker for doing it anymore.
“And I don’t have a clue what places will deny guns, but I’m trying to visualize why people need to carry a gun into, say, McDonalds. I can understand if you spend time (by choice, chance, or necessity) in an area where crime is high, but…”
Do you only wear your seatbelt in areas where traffic accidents are high and take it off in places where it is low?
What does it matter to you where I carry my gun? You will never know anyhow. It will be concealed.
Damoon,
Please don’t bring out the save the children crap of an argument.
I swear that is the most emotionally based argument in the world. It is for the children… blah.
About 20,000 of the gun related deaths in this country are suicides.
I don’t know how many of the gun related deaths are involving children under the age of 14.
What I do know is that is a combined number of homicides, accidental deaths, and suicides.
Of those I have no idea how many are crime related. How many of those “under 14″ deaths are related to gang activity?
You see Damoon, I know all the lies and trickery with numbers you and the VPC, Brady Center, Americans for gun safety, and the rest of the crowd use to try to make things look and sound worse than they really are.
You love to throw things around like 6 times more likely to die if you have a gun in the home…
What study is that based on? It is a coincidental link not a cuasal link anyhow.
People who leave empty buckets in their yard are probably 6 times more likely to have a child drown too…
I have looked up the numbers Damoon. I just don’t use all those BS statistics the anti-gun crowd manipulate to make things sound bad for their 10 second sound bites and one liners.
This is all besides the point. The Constitution allows us to own firearms. We are talking about concealed carry now.
Regardless of how much you fear guns and hate them becuase of your lack of understanding I have a right to own them.
X I am sorry I wasn’t trying to judge I was just suprised that would truly be a concern..it is sad that so many people have to leave in fear..I am very sorry to hear that someons opinion can cause a death threat.. scary world we live in. Well I hope that I do cause anyone to think I am worth killing because of my beliefs..
XXX
There’s not much that we agree on, but I’m glad we agree on this one.
As to judging JR, I’ve been around this forum long enough, long before any death threats came up, and I’ve heard more than one liberal on this blog make a statement to this effect-”I have guns in case I have to deal with conservative like you”. It’s been a while, and I can’t remember for a fact who they were( I’m only 90% sure who they were so I won’t name them). JR’s made it pretty darn clear that his distrust of people who disagree with him motivates him to arm himself against us. In my book thats just a tad bit irrational.
Well good morning all. It looks as though you’ve been busy overnight.
I think the questions are excellent ones and for anyone squeamish, I would like to answer for myself.
1. What is the main reason you own a gun? Home defense.
2. What type of gun do you have? Shotgun? Rifle? Handgun? AK47? If you have several, which do you think of as your “main” gun?Only 1 .22 rifle. I would like at most the following: .45 cal, 12 ga. and .22 pistol
3. Where do you keep your gun (don’t be specific, please)? Your bedroom? Basement? Living room closet?Closet in master bedroom
4. Do you have children in your home? Do they know where your gun and ammunition are kept? Have your children (or child) had gun safety training or have you given them training?yes, yes, yes
5. Do you keep your ammunition in a separate place or in your gun? If in your gun, do you have a trigger lock on it? If so, do you keep the key in a separate place?same place, safety only, no chambered round. An unloaded gun is a stick.
6. With CC now ready to be enacted, where do you think you will need to take your gun and why? Mostly just at home and in the car.
I tend to avoid places and situations where the use of one may be necessary. IF however it were to arise, I would want that option, such as when traveling, camping, or working late (my work neighborhood is not a slum, but it aint Eastborough either…)
Irrational is right. I had made one or two posts a few weeks back and he sent me a private email calling me a douchebag! I replied to his email, but he never had the courage to answer me back. I may still have the exchange archived.
Wow an ICON?Also if I can get a guy like X to laugh with me, it doesn’t bug me whole awful lot if some folks laugh at me.
Thanks X.
It is not necessarily about my own personal safety that this issue matters to me.
Let me illustrate my take on why I think some folks on here should not have guns.
Now XXX and Nathan and Hank and JM are into guns. They are “pro carry”
Of those, I have only ever seen Nathan actively campaigning the issue in the threads. For the rest they comment passively or not at all.
But there are folks like Heckler and GMC and some others who post over and over again about it. I have said in the threads before and I will say it again. Anybody who is just itching to carry a gun probably is not a good candidate to do so.
I consider myself a pretty good judge of character and I will cite again that I said I trusted X with a gun BEFORE he made his most eloquent post last night.
By the way X? That post belongs as a full written editorial in the EAGLE. You should consider that.
I’m just more than a little bothered that the same folks oh so happy about this relaxation of law are pretty much the same folks who want to use laws to restrict the rights or freedoms of others. With the law already what they make it, their being armed would seem to make it all the more likely that they will continue to have their way.
JR,
We are one of only 4 state that still did not allow concealed carry.
It is not as awful as you make it. It is not some horrible problem in all the other states that allow it.
Sure a lot of postings about a ‘done deal’. Plus, if you look at the actual impact of this law, it will likely be minimal.
The people you have to worry about, the criminals who will shoot someone, don’t bother with permits, anyway. All this law does it make it legal for the law abiding person to carry a weapon.
The gang bangers could care less. Just like they don’t care that it is illegal to have a fully automatic machine gun. The laws don’t make a bit of difference to those street animals.
Amen raptor!
HaHaIn reading some of the above posts in this thread one would think they just opened up, a free run to a candy store.
JR
“I consider myself a pretty good judge of character”
Really? I consider you a pretty good example of rampant paranoia.
ICON? Wow. I would think an ICON could think – all you, JR, have demonstrated the ability to do is knee-jerk react.
That’s OK, however. Whether you believe it or not, the self-rightous left has no monopoly on caring about freedom; on the contrary, most of us on the right believe that when the Constitution says something, it means what it says. It is BECAUSE we believe in freedom that some of us think this issue is important.
“I may disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.” Those words mean something where I come from.
You’re hopeless, JR. And while I may disagree with you, in no ways do I fear you, even should you CC.
BTW – you’ve still provided not one whit of evidence which supports the proposition that you have any reason to fear. I’ll take that lack of response as more evidence of the “rampant paranoia” noted above.
Raptor, Don, Heck,You could be a little more understanding. People like us (in most cases) have grown up around guns and are comfortable with it. We all know a gun is a tool, no more, no less. For a lot of people, this is very traumatic. Those of us who support second amendment rights have a responsibility to demonstrate to our friends and neighbors that CC isn’t going to unleash hell on earth in the streets.I humbly suggest that we use our efforts to inform and educate people rather than abuse and condem them on the issue of CC. WE know this isn’t going to make any big difference, but until there are numbers and statistics to back us up here in Kansas, lets try to offer the anti-gun crowd a little support and reassurance.
XXX, you are correct, I will attempt a little more tolerance regarding the subject.
I think I’ve paid proper respects to those that have earned them.
For those who have not, I am sure they will continue to justify my opinion of them.
XXX
You’re right, of course. And I have no doubt whatsoever that the legislature’s trust in its own law-abiding citizens will be born out by practice.
So . . .
Sorry, JR. If you inferred I intended harm on anyone, such an inference was not intended; if implied, I’ll apologize for the unknowing implication.
That lowers you, I guess, from “rampant paranoia” to just garden variety paranoia. ;)
Good post X.. I have decided that I will indeed get a permit to carry… though it does make me nervous I believe that I have reason enough to protect my children and myself.. Though I am still unsure that I will carry a gun.. But I do know that I plan on learning how to use one, clean one and know the basics, guns have always existed (ok not always) and they have had reason to…I think the scariest thing about a gun is being afraid of it and not knowing how to use it, I don’t fear the man who defends himself I fear the ones who care for nothing.
“I think the scariest thing about a gun is being afraid of it and not knowing how to use it.”
Absolutely. Well said.
Again, my offer is still open.
I will teach you about gun safety, gun operation, proper shooting, and basic marksmanship free of charge.
Rock, you remind me of my daughter. She was just horrified that I owned guns and missed no oportunity to lecture her Dad about the evils of gun ownership. I got a call from her one Saturday morning inviting me to come out to her boyfriends parents house in the country and “bring my guns”. Her boyfriend had talked her into shooting a pistol, and she loved it. I showed up with the real firepower and in about an hour, she was shooting my .44 mag like a pro.
Rock, give it a try. Get a set of ear plugs or muffs.Don’t start out with a cannon. Try a .22 or a 9mm.I bet you’ll enjoy it. If you follow the rules and use common sense, you have nothing to fear from a handgun.
Keep in mind what you’re dealing with and above all, be a safe and sane gun owner.
thanks guys I will indeed do that. I want a little one though I think…i really don’t want to land on my rump…LOL
nathan it sounds good to me, besides I am anxious to see who KFG keeps thinking I am…
also if you guys don’t mind I really would like to be called rockl or rachel…everytime i hear rock i think of that big wrestler guy!!! thanks
All, I point out Nathan’s kind offer. Nathan is a Marine Preleminary Marksmanship Instructor. He’s offering you probably some of the finest training in the world. I HIGHLY recomend it. Regardless of what you think of his politics, if you want to learn right, this sounds like a golden oportunity. You don’t get to be a PMI unless you’re one of the best. It’s a Marine Corps thing.
Nathan, I could use some brush-up. There’s some things I’ve forgotten about sight alignment and sight picture. If you get something together, please count me in.
I will figure out some Sunday afternoon in April where we can go to Cheney Res. and the weather looks good.
Is Sunday Afternoon good for you?
It will take about 30-45 mins for the class and then we can shoot for as long as you would like to.
The range is staffed by a Parks and Wildlife Officer.
There is a restroom there too.
It is only open on weekends thought.
I will provide the guns and ammo for free and bring hearing protection too.
You know rocl, you can always change your nic to uh… rachel if it bothers you.
Just let me know when and where..and thanks
wasn’t talking to you KFG …suprisingly you are the only one who has addressed me correctly
Thanks XXX,
My main thing is to teach gun safety. I want people to know how a gun operates and what to do if they ever handle one.
I think safety is so important. Too many people think about guns as toys and don’t respect them. If people were taught about proper handling of firearms I think there would be less accidents with kids shooting each other because they thought it was unloaded.
The 4 things everyone should know and the Marine Corps teaches:
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep the weapon on safe untill you intend to fire.
4. Keep your finger off the triger untill you are ready to fire.
If people would follow those 4 rules you wouldn’t hear about those kids and idiots who “thought it was unloaded…”
Amen, Nathan!As you know, my training came from the Corps about 35 years ago. It’s comforting to know some things never change! Safety is THE RULE.
Sundays work great for me. I’m running a live email now. When you’re ready, send me details.
me too please…
April 2, 16, or 30 works for me.
Hank
(maybe we could get some editors to come!)
Hank, any of those days works for me.
The WE editors get within a mile of a live fire exercise? That I gotta see! But the PR aspect is priceless. Libs and Cons join together to promote gun safety. What a headline!
could we perhaps make it on a sat instead??
GMC,
Even if its just a sign, any business or residence says, NO GUNS, have manners and don’t carry one in.
More training than 8 hours would probably drill that in conscience. Its just because a lot of individuals legal to carry still aren’t responsible in so many ways with judgements.
No business really wants public enforcers intimidating some other loud customers. People may think carrying a gun into a bar is reasonable but alcohol and guns don’t mix. If a person is drinking, they shouldn’t have a gun on them. Restaurants have been robbed with people in them, what gun handler is going to make a play then?Everybody in the restaurant won’t have guns on them ever.
I fear the public defender ideas. Those pro active instead of self defense. I’m not authorized to make gun judgements in society without months of training, nobody is.
Does the military or police give gun authority to trainies, 8 hours after recruits sign up? NO!
I think someone has to sue or legislate more training hours necessary. A gun license should take steps in paperwork and use.
But the NRA doesn’t want that and they are the reason why quick access to buy and records of gun purchases destroyed fast is happening.
M, lawyers and litigation are one of the myriad reasons our country is wallowing in a cesspool. Everyone is a victim and the lawyers are right there to lap it up. they, like guns, have their purposes. Using them for every last little slight denigrates them and makes us all, liberal, conservative, gay straight, etc suffer. Please dont get them involved. They’ll show up on their own accord soon enough.
Apr. 1,15, and 29 also all work for me. I’ll bring some targets too!
Hank
i will make sure I am available any of those…just let me know and then you guys can prove to KFG I am indeed not a guy!!! LOL
Mrge
The point of Concealed Carry is not to train a bunch of “enforcers”. As a matter of fact any good self defense instructor would tell you that you are only responsible for you and yours. In the restaurant robbery scenario the prodent thing to do would be to get out if you can. Concealed Carry simply allows you to do an armed retreat instead of a naked one.
We are not training people to be cops. The LEO’s are trained to go looking for trouble.
GMC70,
So, you think that I am a nut?
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Hank, the 29th is the only one of the last group of dates that works for me. There’s a machine shop auction in Conway Springs the first, and the 15th, I have family in from out of town.
the 29th works for me
Heckler, you need to run your last post twice for those who don’t understand. Folks, you don’t under any circumstances want to be involved in a shoot-out. When you reach for that gun against an armed oponent, your chances are only 50/50 going in. If you can slink away, that’s your best bet.
If you shoot somebody, you’re probably going to spend some time in jail unless it’s a very clear case of self defense.
If you shoot somebody, you’ll most likely get sued. Even if you win, it’ll cost you a fortune. I doubt if your homeowner’s insurance will cover it.
Mrage:
I’d second what Heckler said. The idea that the CC holder is looking to intervene is a misguided one. We understand well that use of that weapon is a last resort option to save lives, and for no other purpose. That’s why I am no fan of the “Stand your Ground” companion legislation; ESPECIALLY for CC holders – we SHOULD retreat when it can be done without additional risk to self or others.
And I’ll be the first to agree – alcohol and firearms don’t mix. Bars are one of the prohibited places, and for good reason.
Remember -this firearm is concealed. It is not about intimidation, or showing off. Absent a crisis, it should never (and in my case won’t) be seen.
As to following the signs: of course. It’s the law. However, I will make known to that business why I will take my business elsewhere.
And do you really think those records of background checks are destroyed? They should be. I know that’s the law, but I don’t assume that it’s followed. It is government, after all. I try to buy my firearms without that paper trail, from individuals.
As to the range time: Count me in. I take it y’all have my e-mail address? (I can’t get yours, for whatever reason – it says my e-mail isn’t installed properly). Let me know when; I’d enjoy meeting all of you. Perhaps we can share our firearms, our experiences and our thoughts, and we all come out better for it.
Uh, and Don, I’m a lawyer. While I think you’re part right, it’s CLIENTS that bring those suits! (I’m in prosecution, BTW). I’ll laugh at all the lawyer jokes you can muster, however!!
I would like every anti-gun zealot to read the following and after doing so, never, ever try to make the case for gun control!
By JIM FITZGERALDAssociated Press Writer
March 23, 2006, 3:39 PM EST
NEW CITY, N.Y. — A prosecutor described in nightmarish detail Thursday the rape, mutilation and killing of a suburban housewife, allegedly at the hands of a worker who was supposed to be power-washing her deck.
The assault on 42-year-old Mary Nagle was so brutal that crime-scene investigators found a piece of her ear and hanks of her hair scattered around her bedroom, Rockland County District Attorney Michael Bongiorno said at the start of the defendant’s trial. One of the victim’s fingers was nearly amputated as she tried to fend off her attacker.
The April 29 killing, in a quiet, manicured neighborhood of New City, exposed the danger of a common situation in the suburbs _ the husband at work, the kids at school, the housewife home alone and a contractor on the scene, often with access to the house.
Bongiorno said Nagle was in her bedroom, changing into tennis clothes, when the attacker sneaked in with his knife, “tearing her clothes off, beating her mercilessly, slashing her with the razor.”
“Mary Nagle put up a courageous struggle, but she was no match,” he said. The attack culminated Nagle being strangled so hard that it broke a bone in her neck, he said.
Among Nagle’s relatives and friends in the courtroom gallery Thursday, some wept as Bongiorno presented his opening statement. Her husband Dan, who was not permitted inside because he is to be a witness, said afterward, “It’s a difficult time and it will always be a difficult time.” He said the couple’s children, a first-grade girl and a fourth-grade boy, “are doing good.” His feelings about the defendant, he said, were “unmentionable.”
Ronald Douglas Herrera Castellanos, 30, is charged with 15 counts of first- and second-degree murder, most of them based on the allegation that he killed Nagle while committing other felonies including rape, robbery and burglary. He is also charged with those crimes separately. If convicted of first-degree murder, he would face life in prison with no chance of parole.
His attorney, Barry Weiss, decided not to make an opening statement for the defense. Outside the courtroom, he said, “We will test all the claims made by the people.” He said he has not decided whether Herrera, an immigrant from Guatemala whose visa expired in 2001, will testify.
Diane Vandel of Hopewell Junction, a friend of Nagle’s sister, said before the court session, “Everybody I know has changed the way they do things because we feel so vulnerable now. I just had two men deliver appliances and I made sure someone was home with me.”
As Bongiorno addressed the jury, Herrera, in a brown suit, listened to a Spanish translation. When the district attorney pointed to him on occasion, Herrera looked directly at him.
The prosecutor alleged that Herrera took off his bloodied shirt and pants and put on fresh clothes that belonged to Dan Nagle. He also tried to wash off blood in the bathroom, he said. And as he fled, he passed Mary Nagle’s sister Ann Fallon, who had come looking for her because of the missed tennis date.
Fallon saw blood outside the bedroom and called police, who found “a scene out of a horror movie,” the district attorney said. The Clarkstown police force, which covers New City, searched the area and Herrera was spotted a mile away from a police helicopter. He was arrested and charged with murder, and within a few days police found his discarded original clothes and Nagle’s cell phone and wallet, which Herrera allegedly stole.
As he was fleeing, police said, Herrera made several calls to numbers programmed into Nagle’s phone, lewdly describing what he had done. Bongiorno said Thursday that the calls were made specifically to female friends and relatives.
The district attorney said investigators had a trove of DNA evidence to work with. Nagle’s blood was found on all the clothes Herrera wore, he said. Herrera also left behind his own blood, from cuts on his hand, arms and neck, as well as his semen, he said. And Herrera and Nagle had each other’s DNA under their fingernails, he said.http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny–suburbannightmare0323mar23,0,5215487.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
XXX
Sounds Good! Is the 29th good for everyone else? I’ll invite the editors!
Hank
GMC, I will have to classify you in the needed category then. Didnt Abe Lincoln say to be an honest lawyer, and barring that, an honest man?
I just get so fed up with all the frivolous lawsuits. there are jobs that I oppose that I bid so high I know I wont get them. I wonder how different things would be (better or worse) if people did that on a regular basis. You know, reserve the right to refuse service to anyone…
Hey Dad you have hijacked my class!
Anyhow… LOL The 29th is good for me too.
XXX, what machine shop?
Gee RD, I don’t know. I left the sale flyer at work. How many machine shops can there be in Conway Springs?
It’s a 2 day auction, Friday and Saturday. I have a lathe and a mill in my garage, so I’m always on the lookout for tooling.
Thompson? (I think that’s right. It’s been too long.) I’m, um, familiar with Conway Springs, that’s why I asked. Watch your speed going into town. LOL I know at least one of the cops.
Hope you find something you like/need.
Thanks to everyone who answered my questions. I can’t say that you’ve won me over to your “side,” but I didn’t expect you to. That wasn’t my intention for posting the questions. Call it curiosity, if you will. But it has given me food for thought. I DO NOT want to take your guns from you. I’ve read the Constitution and grant you your right, even though I believe the Founding Fathers had other reasons in mind for that 2nd Ammendment. I undertand that’s a debatable point.
When I have a little time, I intend to read through your answers more thoroughly. I may have questions or comments, but I doubt it.
Thanks again.
RD, some great parties out past the cemetary. Know the folks I’m talking about?
XXX, thankfully I didn’t grow up or live there, so I know more “of” people than actually know them. (CS and my high school were rivals for decades. While married, I lived approx. 10 miles north of CS.) My ex graduated from there, his father was, at one time, on the school board, his mother a teacher, as was the matron of honor in my wedding. Best man served on the school board, too. I could go on and on. I won’t. (Bet that made you smile.)
Whatever, I’ve been in Thompson’s machine shop several times. Farming means getting things fixed instead of buying knew ones. Did you know they had an explosion some years ago? One of the boys died. Gruesome story.
Ian, I’m sorry to say I don’t find your story a reason to for me to have a gun. In fact, I don’t know that a gun would have helped that woman. When would she have gotten it, loaded (if needed) or unlocked, aimed and fired? While he was breaking her fingers? Unless she was wearing a fully loaded weapon, ready to fire while she changed clothes…
It’s a nasty world out there. We all know that. A gun could save my life, it could also take it. Like I said, I don’t want to take your guns away. I’ve chosen not to own one. If that makes me a coward, in some people’s eyes, so be it.
knew? sheesh NEW
I’ve several thing to address.
NEVER NEVER fire a warning shot xxx the jury will hang you cause you had a chance to run. Center of mass empty the weapon.
Killing someone, its a bruden just ask my WW2/Korea dad, his friend WW2/Korea, my brother Vietnam, I was in the service too never went anywhere but its me or him it would sadden me cause I know he or she is someones somebody but he or she made a bad choice and I was saving my life.My dad told me never look at someone you’ve shot because the are just a target till you look at their face then they become somebody and they stay with you, Oh by the way my dad didn’t kill at long distance he cleaned caves in WW2.
Another thing, you are going to defend your life your gonna shoot and be the fastest and the first…as said its not the movies you are likely to get hit. Whats your pysical shape are you fit or fat that can help determine if YOU live or die.
And on a lighter note we will be able to tell who gay and whos strait if you see a Gucci gun leather with a understated finish firearm and rosewood grips…well you will just know …..LOL Sorry could resist.
I was laughing so hard I wrote it wrong Couldn’t
Nathan, the statistic I quote is from the CDC and John Hopkins. I think their numbers are reliable. The number of children under the age of 14 killed and wounded by firearms in this country is aproximately 25,000 each year. 5,000 killed and 20,000 wounded. I’m not sure how those statistics can be manipulated by the anti-gun crowd to mean anything other than what it is. You can deny it all you want, but we have 12 times more gun related deaths of children than any other devoloped country because our society is so saturated with guns.
It doesn’t matter if it’s suicide, homocide, or accidents. 30,000 firearm related deaths and 65,000 people wounded at a cost of over 1 billon dollars a year in this country is insane.
Hey boy,
I didn’t hijack your class, I merely want to come to it! You’ve been promising to help me with my shitty handgun performance for years now!
Pa
I’ll come on the 29th with my protest sign!
So you are passionate about 25,000 children under 14 being wounded or killed by firearms, BUT you could care less about 1.2 MILLION babies aborted every year? Sounds like someone is confused.
Dear Damoon,
If you are so concerned about the needless deaths of innocent children, why don’t you get on the child seat band wagon? More children die because they aren’t put in child seats than die because of guns.
The CDC has become part of the propaganda wing of the democratic party. I don’t trust any of their numbers.
Hank
PS Are you coming to the shooting class?
Damoon, what about the deaths caused by automobiles? How about alcohol?
Our society is indeed saturated with guns. You might as well accept it, because that isn’t going to change. A huge majority of Americans support gun rights. Those Americans who support the second amendment support it ferverently. Unlike most issues, voters don’t forget politicians who want to take guns away, and they get voted out of office in a lot of cases. Hell, you can’t even keep a ban on assault weapons in place.
Damoon, guns are here to stay.
ID, obviously you don’t know me very well.Hank, What a stupid arguement, why would I not advocate for child safety seats?….how assine to suggest I don’t. I AM a child advocate in every sense of the word, in my work, with my money, with every chance I get. I don’t just pick and choose certain issues to fit my agenda, I am against ANYTHING that proves harmful to children.
XXX, I refuse to accept anything I find morally wrong. I’ll fight for what I believe in every chance I get, get used to it.
It’s so dumb to equate cars with guns. We have to drive to get where we’re going, guns are not a necessity to anyone.There are a lot of dangerous things in this world, that doesn’t mean we should throw caution to the wind and say nothing matters because we’re all going to die anyway.It’s too bad your values are such that you’d rather see children die than give up an individual’s right to own guns. It’s a matter of priorities I guess, I’d say your’s is misplaced.
Dear Damoon,
It would be stupid if it was an argument, it was a question.
Are you comming to the shooting class? No children will be allowed.
Hank
daMoon,
You may as well ban bathtubs because more children die every year as a result of accidental drowning than die of accidental gunfire.
V.L.R.B!!
PREDICTION:
Ian won’t be able to make it to the gun love fest for some silly ass reason.
Anybody care to wager real money against this prediction?
I share your outrage at this Damoon. But this fight is over and we lost.
I need to use a word here. It is not meant to offend XXX or others who are responsible with guns.
Fact is Damoon, we live in a gun nut state in the middle of gun nut country. The wonder is that this legislation was stalled as long as it was.
A far worse bit of law is in the works. “Stand your ground” legislation will allow any one with a gun to use it for even a PERCEIVED threat to them. The ultimate polite and unfree society: don’t piss me off or I will shoot you. And I get to tell the story since you will be dead.
It is likely that this too will pass.
Work must be done to insure that the wannabe Clint Eastwoods of the world ( and there are a few of them on this forum) think twice about when and how they carry and use their guns. Very stringent penalties beginning with lifetime suspension of the right to own any gun up to imprisonment for any and all out of bounds activity involving guns should be enacted.
This is where the fight has to go now Damoon. I think there are a few “gun nuts” who will even be with us. They may feel free to say so.
I share your outrage at this Damoon. But this fight is over and we lost. I need to use a word here. It is not meant to offend XXX or others who are responsible with guns. Fact is Damoon, we live in a gun nut state in the middle of gun nut country. The wonder is that this legislation was stalled as long as it was. A far worse bit of law is in the works. “Stand your ground” legislation will allow any one with a gun to use it for even a PERCEIVED threat to them. The ultimate polite and unfree society: don’t piss me off or I will shoot you. And I get to tell the story since you will be dead. It is likely that this too will pass. Work must be done to insure that the wannabe Clint Eastwoods of the world ( and there are a few of them on this forum) think twice about when and how they carry and use their guns. Very stringent penalties beginning with lifetime suspension of the right to own any gun up to imprisonment for any and all out of bounds activity involving guns should be enacted. This is where the fight has to go now Damoon. I think there are a few “gun nuts” who will even be with us. They may feel free to say so.
Oops Well it did bare repeating.
In my earlier post I stated that the cost of gun violence is 1 billion dollars a year, that was wrong, it’s 100 billion per year. What a price to pay so people can have the opportunity to kill each other.
Thanks for the support JR.
Hank, of course I advocate for child safety seats, and many other things that benefit children.Ian, why don’t you go drown yourself in your bathtub, you’d be doing everyone a favor. It’s especially morons like you that have no business carrying a weapon.
Dearest Damoon,
Your 100 billion dollar factoid has basically been proven bullshit. Sorry.
http://www.nationalreview.com/weekend/books/books-kopel082501.shtml
Of course there is a cost in America associated with gun violence. So? In almost every state that CC has been legalized gun violence has decreased. CC admittedly hasn’t been the only reason. However, the gun control nuts have lost their argument years ago. Sensationalizing their argument with bogus polls and numbers like the 100 billion dollar BS has not helped their cause. But, unfortunantly for them, they have to come to the debate with lies, the facts are not on their side.
In Kansas like other states, the criminals already carry guns whenever and whereever they want. Do you actually believe you are less safe because it will soon be legal for me to carry? At the picnic you were within 10 feet of at least three hand guns I know of! Maybe next picnic they will be legal!
Hank
Jeez Damoon, talk about cranky (and insulting).”get used to it”?
“It’s a matter of priorities I guess, I’d say your’s is misplaced.”?
My, aren’t we particularly nasty and judgemental tonight.
Fight all you want, it’s a lost battle.
And thanks for not offering to drown me in the bathtub.
And before you get really mad, it was a tounge-in-cheek post.
But if I see you coming st me with a bathtub……
“Ian won’t be able to make it to the gun love fest for some silly ass reason.”
Ian, looks like you been challenged. I have reason to believe DD is right. Care to prove him wrong?
DD, my bet is with you.
Hank, you belief that conceal and carry lowers crime is BULLSHIT, just try to prove me wrong, but not with some stupid link to some moron, NRA, pro-gun web site.I’ll use the RELIABLE sources for my info, thank you very much.
XXX, yes, I’m in a cranky mood. Rally bad day, don’t take it personal, you know I love ya!
Hank and Nathan’s theme song: “Happiness is a warm gun……
I trust you with guns X. But you should seriously consider the company you are keeping of late.I did trust hank as well. But I THINK he just bragged about flaunting the law. This causes me concern as to how he might do so in the futureThis “in your face” attitude Damoons thoughtful concerns me.
That should have read “this in your face attitude toward Damoons thoughful post concerns me.”
Hank, the link you provided is just another pro gun propaganda web site. Didn’t your mom ever tell you that you can’t believe everything you see on the internet? And I thought you were too smart to be so gullible!
I’m calling it a day….goodnight and sweet dreams.
Damoon,
Once again you throw around that 5,000 children under the age of 14 number.
It does matter how they were killed.
I don’t count gang bangers that shoot each other.
What is the breakdown of those deaths?
I know that less than a 1,000 people are accidently shot each year.
I know that about 10,000 gun related homicides happen each year.
I know that about 20,000 gun involved suicides happen each year.
15,000 people die each year from some type of fall related accident.
How many people die each year because of prescription drugs?
How many people die each year due to medical mistakes?
You thorw around that 5,000 number like it is some travesty when in reality it is a drop in the bucket and little more than your excuse to continue hating guns with your irrational fear.
How many kids die from drowning?
About 4,000 people die each year from drowning. Most are kids. Many of those from bathtubs and swimming pools.
Oh my goodness Damoon, you live on a lake!
Do you know how much the odds go up of children drowning when your house is on a lake?
Don’t you care about kids? Don’t you care enough to not live on a lake?
You are basically killing kids Damoon by supporting lake property which increased their odds of drowning…
That is all the anti-gun crowd has is thier stupid statistical BS. Anyone that knows probability and statistics and has actually studied logic and how numbers are misrepresented can see right through it.
You are afraid of guns and don’t like them. That is fine. Don’t come here with your it is for the children BS though…
your sources are just as biased against guns as you claim ours are for them…
Why do you NEED to carry a gun Nathan?
JR,
Are we playing the NEED game?
I can play this game too.
Why do you NEED Web TV?
The only thing we NEED is food, water, shelter and habitat. I would argue God too, but I digress.
Yes you do digress Nathan.
I’ll restate.
Why do you WANT to carry a gun Nathan?
JR,
I believe RD asked that before.
I said for protection of myself, loved ones, others, and property.
Well Nathan as a trained Marine I am sure you are capable of protecting yourself. As your father is clearly armed I must assume your family does not need your protection. And then there is poperty. Are you prepared to kill another human being for whatever property you might carry with you in addition to your gun?
Also, guns are expensive. The license to carry one will be $150. Are you entitled to better protection than someone of lesser means?
JR,
“Are you prepared to kill another human being for whatever property you might carry with you in addition to your gun?”
I would not kill someone unless it was to protect my life, the life of another or to prevent serious bodily harm to myself or another.
“Are you entitled to better protection than someone of lesser means?”
LOL. Are you serious?
I think having Concealed Carry is a privledge afforded to me by the government to allow myself and anyone else who meets the requirements the ability to protect themselves.
Are you suggesting that the government provide guns and the fee for those who can’t afford it?
Damoon, I’m with you on the “bad day”.
Hope you feel better in the morning.
Love you, too.
Nighty night!
I am not sugesting any such thing. That was a nice dodge.
I AM implying that if guns are available only to those who can afford them, that only those who can afford them will have guns. Sort of like how politics and money works now as to power.
I prefer an equal playing field. Or do I need to teach a conservative about the rights of the individual irregardless of their status?
JR,
You make no sense at all.
Regardless of whether or not people can afford the license they don’t have it now and no one does.
Things are not getting worse for anyone, they are getting better for some.
What is wrong with that?
Do you think that it is fair that you have Web TV when many people can’t afford it? I don’t see you advocating for no one to have internet access because everyone can’t afford it.
JR -
I agree with you on “stand your ground” though what you post – it “will allow any one with a gun to use it for even a PERCEIVED threat to them” – is not exactly the case. There is not a retreat requirement in Kansas now, so in that sense the law changes nothing.
The only real change is that if a person is in your home or car, forceably and without your consent, there is a legal presumption that they are a threat. It makes the “objective” part of the self defense standard a legal presumption, in other words, but only in your home or car.
Not a particularly good idea, in my book, but not as much change as you might think.
And I hope to be there April 29. Never been to the Cheney range; someone post (or e-mail me) directions and times.Handguns only? Or other fun stuff?
As to your “side” losing:” don’t take it so hard. It was inevitable. Kansas now makes 47 states; Nebraska is about to become 48. The sky will not fall.
In practice, you probably won’t even notice.
This just in. Tom Delay had his concealed carry permit suspended in Texas yesterday. At least we know he wont be drunk in a bar AND packing concealed heat.
I wonder if their other laws work as well?
Check it out for yourself:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/DeLay_license_to_carry_concealed_handgun_0324.html
Damoon, you go girl!
I admire you so much, even if we dont agree on every issue. Especially because we dont agree on everything. Including abortion and porn!
I love that you have facts to back up your positions. I love that you dont use your faith as an excuse, but instead, you walk your talk. I love that you stand up to these guys and dont let them bully you. Not XXX of course, but you know who you are!
XXX, lots of machine shops out of biz here, but their equipment might be too old to be of any use.
If you think a gun free socity is safer take a look a England.
What are you talking about? There are an average of 800 murders each year in the UK, compared to 12,000 in the US.
London’s murder rate is 2.4 per 100,000.New York’s murder rate is 6.9 per 100,000.There are twice as many police officers in New york than in London.New York’s murder rate has come down significantly from the early 90’s, researchers credit this to the fact that all of us baby boomers are getting old.
My daughter lived in London for 4 months, there was one murder (by stabbing) the entire time she was there.
GMC70
You expressed concern about “stand your ground” legislation. I’m not sure I agree with you. It doesnt really change anything as far as the criminal code goes does it? You still have to meet the requirements for legitimate self defense.
On the civil side of the law I would say that it’s a must. NO ONE should be able to sue you for the legitimate use of force in self defense.
I welcome any commentary from anyone with a legal background.
I like you too, frmgirl, your witty way with words and your passion for your beliefs are traits I really admire. I always look forward to reading your posts.
Man, the lawyers are going to clean up with this law! I can just see the $ in their eyes from all the potential lawsuits.
Damoon
The violent crime rate in England is higher than it is in the US.The violent crime rate in CANADA is higher than in the US.
Englands murder is quickly catching the US murder rate. Note that in New York city, where most of those murders occur, guns are almost entirely banned.
Some interesting homicide rates, 2002: http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html#world
Damoon,
Researchers give credit to people getting old?
I am sure Bernard Kerick didn’t have much to do with it or the reformation of the Police in the city either…
At least now we are getting to the real issue which is murder not guns.
The culture here is violent compared to all the other industrialized nations. It is not just guns.
Guns are only a tool.
From comments from Hank and others, I’d say passing CC was nothing more than legalizing what has been done illegally.
Damn, I think I’m going to be paranoid after all.
“Guns are only a tool.”
That’s right, Nathan. And what is that particular tool used for? To hammer nails? To hit a baseball? To fix a tire? To filet a fish? Nope, it’s a tool expressly created for killing, whether it be fowl, animals, or humans. However, I guess I could say the same for a bow and arrow, so I’ll shut up.
Nathan, where to you get your numbers? The murder rate in England is nowhere near what it is in the US. 800 murders a year in the UK compared to 12,000 murders in the US. How is that “quickly catching up”? Where’s the proof, Nathan?
PS Nathan, as far as I know, no one has ever drowned in our lake. What a stupid analogy!
Sorry, my earlier post was directed at Heckler, not Nathan.So WHERE do you get your numbers, Heck?The latest cdc report:2003 US firearm related deaths: 17,6382003 US firearm related homocides: 11,829.The UK is nowhere NEAR that number.
In 2003, there were 1,045 homocides in the UK, of those murders, %8 were committed with a firearm.
There were 2,708,000 reported incidents of violent crime in the UK in 2003.The same year there were over 13,000,000 incidents of violent crime reported in the US.
Tell me again, Heck, how are they catching up to us? statistics. My numbers come from the cdc and bureau of crime statistics.
You’re right, Nathan. Guns are tools…tools for killing, on that we agree.
Where IS everybody? Am I the only one sitting at home on a Saturday night with nothing to do?!?
Damoon,
Your ridiculous anti-gun rants are fun to observe, keep it up! rotflmosrfao
Viva La Pistola!!!
Damoon,
You are almost as anti-gun and pro-wetback as governor Kathy, congratulations.http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Damoon,Hi there, lady. I’m here for a bit anyway.
I applaud your not backing down. I think guns are too prevelant in the US, but the laws of the land allow it, so people are going to own them.
I do like the second amendment, with its implication that a well armed populace is the only defense against a government run rampant. God hope it never comes to that. It would be the end of this nation as we know it.
Personally, I like target practice. I see nothing wrong when done in a designated area. Shooting at signs, popping off during new years, and other nonsense only gets people killed. I doubt I would ever want nor need a CCP, but if the situation ever arose where one could mean protection for my life, or the lives of loved ones, I wouldn’t hesitate.
Is the CC law a good one? Evidenced from all the other states that have implimented it show no effect one way or the other. I think it’s a wash.
Hi Damoon!Don’t feel bad, I’m sitting at home on Saturday night, too (That’s bad…I’m a single guy).
I thought of something concerning your numbers comparing crime rates in Britian compared to the US. There’s not as many people in Britian. So of course the crime rate is lower. I did a search, and there’s slightly less than 60 million people in Britain.
I know that still doesn’t balance the numbers, but it’s worth considering.
Q:Why don’t people rob police departments?A:Cops have gunsQ:Why do violent criminals think twice about getting into a fight with the police?A:Cops have gunsQ:Why do most violent criminals target women and children?A:They are seen as weaker less-threatening, easy targetsQ:Why does the U.S. have the highest gun-related deaths among other industrialized countries?A:Because we have a population of 300 million people. (and in my opinion, many of these are either psychologically unfit and/or ignorant of the operation of firearms)
Bottom line: Your not gonna decrease violent crimes by taking away guns. Guns can be a potential deterrent to criminals. In my opinion guns are neither morally neutral. It depends on how the gunman uses his gun which determines the morality of his actions with his firearm. A gun with no shooter can’t kill or hurt anyone. But put an untrained psychologically unbalanced person behind a gun, well that’s an accident waiting to happen. The same can be said with drivers and their automobiles.
Yours,BLGFRT1
Look who is talking about Psychologically unbalanced.
Ususal trend followed hitting all the threads. But tonight he’s rational.
Acknowledges, embraces the title “Blogfart” and then starts whittling it down. Right now it’s at BLGFRT1.
Will it get to BF1?
Nice start guy. It is gonna take more than one evening to remake yourself.I do think the audience is watching.
JR,I see your reptilian brain is once again sputtering out it’s mundane non-sense. I am at no point in time “REMAKING” myself. (Whatever that means.) If you choose to pick a fight, I will show you just how malignant I can become!
BLOGFART1
Is that better?
Hahahaha!
CrusaderX
I think you already proved your capacity for malignancy.
Believe it or not I am rooting for you to not do so again. Your a young bright guy with an interest in issues. We need more of that not less.
You destroyed your own credibility before. I just had a lot of fun with it. I hope you can rebuild it.
Spare me the patronizing speech!
Well then let’s stick to issues. Do you plan to get a permit and carry a concealed weapon?
JR,No I will not get a permit and carry a weapon and/or conceal it. I am a native Bronxite, big, ugly, and brown-skinned. No criminal in their right mind would dream of mugging me. (I’m bragging of course) But no, i’ve never needed a gun to defend myself, but who knows maybe when I become a family man my POV may change.
Well I will give you this Cusader X. You are the ONLY proponent of concealed carry that at least says he does not intend to carry a weapon.
That you give voice to what you think is right as opposed to what you personally want does speak well for you.
Even if you are wrong.
JR,What I want is the right to bear a firearm when I deem it necessary, and to not let the government make that decision for me!
Cheers!
The bad deal for you Crusader X is that you have posted a death threat on a public blog. I think that will weigh heavily against any future attempt by you to carry a gun.
JR,If you would read my latest post, you will find I too am a proponent and have no plans of carrying a gun.
Mea culpa J M I missed that.
I tend to watch folks who want to carry a gun and question their motives. I’ve never had cause to be concerned as to you.
It was an empty threat JR! I thought he was making a 9/11 joke. Any other New Yorker, and he would have had cause for concern.
When I had my apartments, there was an old man (the grandfather of my partner, that’s why I didn’t evict the SOB) who carried a gun, 3 times he pulled a gun on other tenants. Once, because they parked their car on the grass, another time when some tenants tried to move out without telling me they were leaving, and a 3rd time, because a visitor got his apartment confused with someone else’s and knocked on his door.My 11 yr old nephew got shot and killed because a playmate was visiting his grandpa who lived in the neighborhood and the old man left his gun case unlocked with a loaded gun in it.Just the other day, one of my coworkers was telling me how her husband (who is “well trained and careful” with guns) shot himself in the hand last week, trying to put the safety on his gun.
This is why I can’t condone anymore guns added to the pool, especially with the mindset most conceal and carry proponents have. We have 8 times the number of gun related deaths in this country than any other developed nation,and 12 times that for children. It’s a national disgrace, and I don’t feel anymore “free” or “safe” because more idiots will be toting guns when they shop at Walmart.Yea, you can say I have an irrational fear of guns, but the statisics speak for themselves.
As I said before, when all the numbers come in and the research is complete, conceal and carry will be shown to increase the number of fatalies due to guns. I have enough faith in human nature to believe that will be a fact.
Hey, I think this thread holds the record for the most posts. Good job, guys!
Dear Damoon,
You are irrational and hysterical. First of all dear, the numbers are in. In 46 other states research and studies have been conducted by all sorts of groups and no matter how you spin the numbers it has been proven that your irrational fear of increased gun deaths is just that, irrational.
We have too many guns in this country in the hands of criminals. Outlawing guns will not stop that fact. The fact that I have a gun poses no threat to you or any ‘children’. It does, however, make me safer. The fact that I always have a handgun nearby has saved me from being a victim on three occasions that I know of. I have never had to fire a shot.
When I travel I have the responsibility to keep my family safe. The very fact that there are crazies out there, like the old man you couldn’t kick out of your apartments, is an argument for concealed carry, not one against it.
If anyone tries to break into your house some night, call 911. Then call me. I’ll bring my gun and protect you until the sherriff gets there!
Hank
Uh oh….
The angry woman meme starts, aimed at Damoon:
“You are irrational and hysterical”
Dear ksfarmgrrl,
You are too!
Hank
I’m not hysterical, Hank, but I am angry at the stupidity of this legislation. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t make me irrational, quite the opposite in fact.More guns=more gun deaths, the math is simple. Gun violence in our country is a national disgrace, no matter how much you want to deny it. “There is none so blind as he who will not see”.
Damoon,
Do you support gun education and safety classes in school?
Damoon,
I just purchased a whole mess of incendiary ammo, just for fun! :) rotflmosrfaohttp://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=44656976
Viva La Raza Blanco!!
Nathan, if someone is going to own a gun, of course I think they should have to pass a safety course. As far as teaching gun safety in schools, I’d be in favor of anything that would help reduce gun deaths in this country.Why should it be easier to get a gun than a driver’s license?
Why do you think the police department refuses to support conceal and carry laws?
Damoon:
The police DEPT may not support CC. That’s a political choice. As one who works with law enforcement officers daily, I can tell you without hesitation that OFFICERS overwhelmingly support CC.
And that is consistent with the poll of its members by the National Association of Chiefs of Police. Officers understand, even if you don’t, that the person who follows the law and puts himself under the microscope to do so is not a threat to anyone, especially LEOs.
I know the last post on this subject was some time ago but I would like to give my 2 cents on the recently passed Kansas CCW law.
I have recently moved back to the state of Kansas (within the last 2 years) and am glad to see the CCW law has passed and will soon come into effect. Also, some people had mentioned about how no one in this post has ever been shot or had to shoot someone. Well, here is my story that condones and supports the carrying of concealed weapons from a victims point of view.
I have a job, actually 2 jobs. I have chosen to be in the business of being a bouncer/doorman at 2 local bars. Even with the bleak future involved with this type of work, it is something I truly enjoy. However; there is a risk of bodily harm in this line of work but I never thought it would happen to me off the clock.
One night, as I approached my driveway I noticed a car pulling in behind me. Being a person of a trusting nature I thought that this particular individual may have needed some assistance or was needing directions. As I talked to this individual they appeared to be kind in nature and were in need of a phone. As I turned around, I was attacked. I was concious for about half of the struggle when finally my throat collapsed from the guy strangling me.
When I woke up a couple days later, with a throbbing headache from the 16 staples in my head, the tube in my throat, mostly blind in my left eye, and 8 broken ribs (and not to forget my free rhinoplastique), I cussed myself for not being a criminal and illegally carrying a gun to protect myself in spite of the laws. Am I a victim?
Yes, the answer is yes. Everyone that I’ve talked to has told me that I could have chosen a different profession. Why? Why should I have to look over MY shoulder while being a god fearing, tax paying, law abiding citizen of the greatest nation on Earth? Why didn’t I have the right to defend myself in a manner that would have not left me in the current state I’m in now. Do I have to take different routes home now? Yes. Do I have to push the little bone in my throat over every time it slides out of place when I swallow food or water? Yes. Do I have put drops in my eye every couple of hours now? Yes. Does the new shape of my nose attract the ladies? NO! Does it make me fearful for my life more than ever? Yes.
Now, I know I’m not the only person on the planet that has been a victim of violent crime. But, I am now a victim of violent crime because of my chosen career. See, the individual that attacked me had followed me home one night after I had ejected him from one of the clubs I was working in and evidently he had a huge grudge against me. I didn’t rough him up, I didn’t belittle him in front of his friends. He just had something to prove to his friends about tough a guy he was. And mind you, if you think, for one second that I am feeble… think again. I’m 6′2 268 pounds of weight lifting, wrestling, kempo karate taking 30 year old man. I’m not your everyday little woman or 100 pound weakling.
So, am I in favor of the CCW law being passed? Damn right. Am i thinking now about how something like this could have happened to one of our female waitress’ and how she’d be dead? Damn right. 3 years after this took place am I still mad? Nope, but it won’t happen to me again and I’ll tell you why. Because on Jan. 1, 2007, I’m going to get a permit that allows me to protect myself. Even with taking all the precautions in self defense I’ve all ready taken… I was still a victim… you can still be a victim.
I am just one case out of thousands that exist.
However; I understand the frustrations of individuals that have lost a loved one or knows someone who has lost a family member to carelessness with a gun. I am a supporter of having CCW laws in effect, but I am also in favor of making getting a CCW permit as difficult as possible within reason. Law abiding citizens that want to obtain a CCW permit do not mind going through a thorough background check, a mental competency test, and absolutely do not mind going to a shooting range and passing a range test because… that would mean a day at the shooting range. What could be more fun than that?
And one last thing, I would have used my cell phone to call the police but it wouldn’t have done any good because my throat was smashed and I couldn’t talk. Thank God for eves dropping neighbors! Without them, I’d be dead.
Let me save Damoon the trouble:
More guns = More death
(More guns = More death) = guns bad
Nathan – sounds like your position on the right of a sovereign nation to “keep and bear arms”
Well JI am sorry for your injury. You tell a compelling story.
But….I’m having trouble seeing how your story is relevant.I don’t mean that as it sounds.You were attacked from behind. The way you describe the attack a gun would have done you no good would it?