Michael Shermer wrote an op-ed piece for the Los Angeles Times about Holocaust denier David Irving being sentenced to three years in jail. He brought up some points about the First Amendment that are relevant to the debate in this state about Fred Phelps’ appalling funeral protests. He writes:
“The important question here is not whether Irving is a Holocaust denier (he is), or whether he offends people with what he says (he does), but why anyone, anywhere should be imprisoned for expressing dissenting views or saying offensive things. . . .
“Freedom is a principle that must be applied indiscriminately. We have to defend Irving in order to defend ourselves. Once the laws are in place to jail dissidents of Holocaust history, what’s to stop such laws from being applied to dissenters of religious or political histories, or to skepticism of any sort that deviates from the accepted canon?”
Posted by Melissa Cooley
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- FORD1ST on Open thread 11/24
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- SolDevVB on Open thread 11/24
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- SolDevVB on Open thread 11/24
- thomaswitt on Whose ‘unchecked spending’?
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/24
- preordained1 on Whose ‘unchecked spending’?
26 Comments
Fags die. God laughs. Or whatever else the voice in his head tells him. A pity the voice in his head doesn’t tell him to jump off a cliff.
David Irving, Fred Phelps, et al, have the right under the Bill of Rights to say anything they want, so long as it does not incite to riot.
David Irving, had he been in this country, would have been afforded that right. Austria, with its history, doesn’t protect people who defy government agendas. Too bad. Makes me that much more happy to be in this country.
Fred Phelps, on the other hand, is one day going to yell at the wrong person, and then find himself answering to his God about why he was such a A**H***. I doubt God will have any sympathy for him.
The two are apples and oranges, Irving was not standing outside of a Synagogue shouting that the Jews were liars or that that the Jews deserve to die because they were Jews. Phelps on the other hand stands outside of churches hoping to cause a controversy . Right here everyday you will find people on both side of how the President is doing. They may make you angry, but are not trying to get you to slug them for the cameras. Some I think are here just to spread dis-information for one reason or another. But most express their thoughts after weighting the issue at hand. Based on the information they have to go on. The information maybe wrong, but they are expressing them selves in good faith.
Irving was doing that based on information he had, Phelps is expressing himself solely to cause an issue.
The point is, Irving’s beleifs should not be a cause for his incarceration, nor should Phelps. Free speech should be just that. Phelps is coming very close to crossing the line though.
At the risk of being uninformed, it was not clear in Melissa’s post that the guy imprisoned was not in this country. Who are we to try to tell people in other countries how to handle freedom of speech issues?
In this country, freedom of speech is not absolute. However, should the law banning this disgusting sicko’s actions, you can bet I will be on the frontline of total repulsive behavior the day that pile of garbage dies.
“…law banning disgusting sickos actions FAILS”..
damn, I need to proofread better.
JM, So when and how is it decided that Phelps crosses the line? He assaults people when they are most vulnerable, and he hopes to get slugged so he can sue for assault against those he’s assaulting in order to make money to fund his activities.Let him have his “free speech”, but just make him do it 300 ft away from those he’s trying to incite. I don’t see how that is denying him his rights.
I actually agree with Damoon. As much as we like to believe otherwise, free speech is not an absolute (thought it’s closer to that here than Austria, abviously). While government may not restrict the CONTENT of speech, the state may reasonably set time/place/manner regulations, as long as they are not directed at a particular point of view.
The proposed bill sets just such time/place/manner regulations, and should be constitutional. The same distance regulations would also apply to those fine people who put themselves between Phelps’ disgusting crap and the family who is mourning.
Now if we could just get the media to quit putting this neanderthal on TV, perhaps he’d go away. Local TV has quit putting him on, so now he’s taking his act national where he’s still “news.” Phelps will answer for his actions, if not in this life, in the next.
Oh gosh, I think I just insulted neanderthals. To the cave-men out there, sorry.
What jury is going to give Phelps any money if he sues. Not I
Give P.C. a whole new meaning!
If anything I would say this is another example of how America is a great country!
Shouting FIRE in a crowded theater. Is that free speech? Of course not. So, there are limits. Playing my stereo at a gazillion decibels at 3 AM. Again, limits. Disrupting a church service. Funerals. There are limits.
People should distrupt church service at phelps church. Flood his website emails and shut down his server. Get his home phone number and those of his family. call the IRS to try to do away with his tax emexpt status. Call the prison buerua and get marge and fred jr. fired. found out where the phelps family get their service’s banks, trash, grocieries and put pressure on them to cut off the phelps.
785-273-730-is Margie number785-272-4135- is Freds number their are other Phelps listed but I dont know which are family but I will post these as many places as i can.
Pancho,Phelps knows he can’t win, but if he keeps filing nuisance suits, he can cost his enemies a fortune in attorney’s fees defending themselves. He’s a disbarred shyster himself, so he knows how to abuse the system.
Yeah, but David Irving is a Brit who was convicted in AUSTRIA where, as in Germany, they must still be careful about Nazism, using laws on the books since post-WWII. Kids in many school districts in the U.S. get suspended for Nazi insignias.To a lesser extent in the U.S. would be the controversy over the appearance of the Confederate battle flag, and didn’t a Kansas kid get expelled last year for drawing one on a notebook?
“The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance.”-Thomas Jefferson
No, Phelps is a piece of work. Nice to see that the bill to keep him a safe distance from grieving families may pass with ease.
Phelp’s is doing God’s work? That’s funny, cuz I don’t see any passage in my Bible that says that protesting homosexuality with hateful messages at people’s funerals is “God’s work.” Perhaps you should understand that when Christ said to “love your neighbor as yourself,” He did not put an adjective before the word “neighbor.” It is a universally inclusive statement, and for anyone to say that it is ok to love Christians but hate homosexuals is hypocrisy! He distorts the message of Jesus Christ and he will burn in hell for eternity.
Ubi Petrus Ibi Ecclessiae
And get your a$$es to church!
I don’t like organized religion, X.
Da,You don’t know what you’re missing babe. ;)
I’m still waiting for Freddy to start blaming the Jews for everything wrong with the world.
X, I grew up Catholic, 12 years in a Catholic school, read and studied the bible front to back, and went to Mass everyday (except Saturday). I’ve had enough religion to last several lifetimes. I DO know what I’m missing and I don’t miss it at all.
What made you change your mind?
X, I guess as my view of the world evolved, so did my beliefs. I believe in God, but I’m no longer a Christian. Spirituality is a deeply personal thing, and I can’t fit mine into the mold of any particular religion or ideology. I don’t buy the heaven/hell/afterlife ideology. To me, time is eternal and this is my time in eternity. That’s why life seems so important to me, it’s the only shot I have at existing and I want to make the most of every minute. God is something I feel, I don’t know how else to explain it.