Conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks argued on “The Charlie Rose Show” on PBS last week that the majority of Americans are somewhere in the political middle. As a result, a centrist third party could dominate politics. But he doesn’t see that ever happening, in large part because of our nation’s political primary system. He also said that moderates lack the think tank and academic support that helps give liberals and conservatives intellectual momentum. The best that likely could happen, he said, is that someone such as Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., would get elected president and help guide government more toward where most of the public is — the center.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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40 Comments
. “He also said that moderates lack the think tank and academic support that helps give liberals and conservatives intellectual momentum.”
It could be that us moderates do not need someone else to tell us how we should think! Maybe that is why we are moderates, we can think!
Perhaps it’s time to form a moderate party in Kansas. Since there a large number of republicans who are tired of the religious right trying to hi-jack the GOP, the timing for a common sense party has never been better.
If “intellectual momentum” is what propels the right/left wings, I am happy to stay a moderate.
The centrist vote doesn’t need a party label and doesn’t need “think tanks”. We can pick and choose by our votes.
The primary system is a large barrier, and third parties, such as Libertarians, Constitution, Reform, and the like are considered fringe and don’t recieve any attention or votes.
Also! To become an Independent Candidate in Kansas is difficult. You have to gather registar voter signatures that can be up to a minimum of 5,000 needed to get on a ballot for State wide and Federal Office elections.
Although 5,000 at a glance doesn’t seem difficult, but it is quite a feat to accomplish. There was a prominent and very accomplished African American that tried to run as an Independent for Senate last election, and he couldn’t get all the signatures on time.
But if you are a Republican or Democrat, all you have to do is pay a filing fee and you are on the ballot.
So I believe they make it too difficult for independents to run for office. Although! Just thinking about it. I should run as an independent this coming November in a state legislature race. The chances of getting elected is slim, but it would be a political statement.
Ya know, if the majority of “moderates” got out of the stands and down on the court, they might find that the game looks very different. If they became participants instead of observers, they could elect someone like McCain. If they gave their money to moderate organizations they could speak with a voice louder than fanatics on both sides.
The fact that moderates feel they are being left behind is a function of not using that voice. You have to be willing to speak in order to have a voice. And as you can see from these posts, speaking out is not easy. You can expect both friendly and unfriendly fire. That is the price of having a voice, the price of being in the game and not up in the stands where it is nice and comfy and safe.
Dont count the lazy, the uninformed, and those who are above it all with moderates. I think the moderate numbers would shrink significantly if these non-participants were removed from the tally. Not all moderates are non participants, but almost all those who remain silent are thought to be moderate.
Judging by our current government, either the mods dont have the numbers they claim, or they just arent getting to the PRIMARY polls. Both parties freeze out dissent, making a third party necessary. But someone would have to lead that third option, so maybe the question isnt “where are the moderate voters?” Maybe the question is, “where are the moderate leaders?” Are they being silent, safe and invisible?
So ok moderates, what will this state become if you continue to let the inmates run the asylum? If you are a moderate elected official, here is a little tip. Saying nothing on all the important issues may get you safely elected but it does not serve the people of this state or nation.
I still love Jim Hightower’s comment that the only thing you find in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and dead armadillos. If there really is a mythical moderate majority, lets see it this election year.
Maybe those “moderates” who dont speak out are following this old saying:
It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Farmgirl, your comments are not only inaccurate, but grossly generalized and insulting.
Working with hundreds of other moderates, I have walked precincts for candidates. I have raised funds, stuffed envelopes, made phone calls. I have testified in front of the Senate Transportation Committee. I have traveled to both state and federal capitals (at my expense) to meet with elected representatives regarding issues of concern to me.
Do not paint everyone with the same brush. Your oversimplification and dismissal proves an ignorance as well as a blind eye to reality. There are active people in all walks of life, regardless of the political “label” stuck on them. Just because there is no “moderate” party doesn’t mean there is no moderate influence. We are free to pick and choose who we vote for, rather than being held to some ideological “ideal”.
Your generalizations are off base. Many, many moderates are involved more ways than posting a few opinions on a blog. We just don’t stand on top of buildings screaming “look at meeeee” like so many posers do.
I guess you skipped over this part Ray.
“Not all moderates are non participants, but almost all those who remain silent are thought to be moderate.”
I could think of any number of insulting things to say here, but I wont. I’ll just ask the obvious question Ray. How’s all that moderate participation working for us?
What is there to be moderate about? How can one be moderate when the news is that the president is spying on AMERICANS! How can you be moderate when there were no Weapons of Mass Distruction and we realize that we were lied into a war! What is there to be moderate about when your own president said “you are either with us or against us? What is there to be moderate about?
Just remember this. It was the moderates in Kansas that elected Kathleen Sebelius, not because there were an overwhelming majority of Democrats or that Democrats are making headway in Kansas. It was the moderates.
The “moderate” Republican party was in the Congressional minority for 40 years.
Only when they turned a bit to the right did they get and keep the majority.
Yes. And drive the country into its current ditch.
When the ‘far left’ of the Democratic Party took office, it created the New Deal, which ultimately set up the era of civil rights that culminated in the life and work of Dr. King.
Y’all can keep the middle. The outside left is where the action is, pushing the envelope to make America better for everyone.
The Eagle’s love for John McCain, despite his single-handed scuttling of the Boeing Tanker program, will never die. Alas.
I would invite moderates to come into the Democratic Party. That doesn’t mean you have to blindly vote “D” in general elections; however it DOES mean that you can influence the party at the precinct level. While it is nearly impossible for an Independent to get on the general election ballot it is very easy to run in a Primary for Precinct.
Similarly, I would recommend that moderates in heavily Democratic areas to the same within the Republican Party.
If we can get some moderates, people who talk to and associate with members of the other Party, into Precinct positions they can influence both parties. This is how the “religious right” took over the GOP in Kansas.
Good point Joe about electing Sebelius. But…if you can actually tolerate a question here…I wonder if that was a “lesser of two evils” vote or if that was really a ringing moderate endorsement of Governor Leadership.
I am asking because the so called moderate majority had no coattails and didnt carry on down the ballot. I noticed that by following the “moderate” legislature you all sent to Topeka to work with her. I’ll be looking for that moderate legislature next year after you all vote that moderate majority.
All of our votes are stifled under an exclusively two party system, as you pointed out Joe. Given the choices big money gives us most years, a lot of Kansans just hold their noses and vote. Or even worse, they sit at home and rail at the tv and dont vote. Forgive me for thinking those stay at home voters are the real majority in Ks.
Seriously Joe, I commend you for even considering a run for office. If more moderates like you put their efforts into action, maybe we wouldnt be in such a hole in Kansas. Given the nature of your posts here, I wonder though if the “moderates” will claim you.
I agree with CF’s point, but I am always willing to work with moderates and conservatives. Contrary to the label-game, there are always common interests to be found, and they don’t always break down neatly on the left/right divide. And for exactly that reason, I object to the alleged reasoning that holds the political center as a well-defined thing. It’s not.
Call me idealistic, but I still believe in the old-fashioned notion of changing people’s minds.
Ah Phillip,
So, what exactly is a moderate? Well, the liberal political definition used in the mainstream press is a republican that votes with the democrats and panders to the media for face time. John McCain is a prime example.
Now any democrat that isn’t a conservative is a ‘moderate’ you see, there is no liberal democrats in the medias opinion.
Let’s review a list of the great moderates in history, shall we? …….oops, there are none!
The problem with being in the middle politicaly, is that your postion is dependent on the position of the extremes of each side of the debate. I’d rather enter the arena and participate on my own terms.
I’m sorry Phillip, despite the left leaning editorial page of the NYT McCain is a liberal. As a liberal he has no chance of ever getting the nomination of the Republican Party, let alone ever being president.
Hank
Joe – taking my suggestion about Precincts a bit further you might try the same tactic. I don’t know what District you are in but you might consider filing for the Primary in the minority party. In many cases there isn’t even a candidate there. Then you get a pass to the General election.
Mark my words though – I suspect you will have a very difficult time at that stage as so many people vote straight party tickets. For example, if you were the Dem candidate in heavily Rep 94th District I would probably vote for you – but you would still lose 2-1 in a partisan vote.
Hank,
‘McCain is a liberal’? Am I the only one who thinks that discussion of America’s political spectrum has gotten, well, a little unhinged since the Texas oil fascists set up shop in the White House?
Dear CF,
Of course McCain is a liberal! As a liberal running for president he tries to position himself ‘in-the-center’ politically, but he is a liberal.
His do nothing anti-torture bill (the terrorists protection act); his incredibly unconstituional campaign finace reform bill with Senator Fiengold (the incumbant protection act); and other peices of left-wing legislation that he supports put him firmly on the liberal side.
And finally, the greatest piece of evidence of all that McCain is a liberal is that the NYT refers to him as a moderate republican!
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Hank
Would someone please define for me what a moderate is? Do they take a hard stand on anything? Where do they stand on critical issues? I dont think I know any moderates.
Lest we forget McCain’s role in the Savings and Loan scandal.The best thing the right-wingers did was get McCain off the leadership of the Senate Commerce Committee…if he had stayed on much longer, we wouldn’t have any First Amendment left.
Hank,
Well, if you redefine liberal as ‘anyone that self-described conservatives don’t like,’ then I guess McCain is a liberal. But it strains credulity to see someone who defines himself as ‘pro-life’ and who supports the teaching of intelligent design as a ‘liberal.’
As for your indirect slam against the NYT, presumably for their ‘liberal’ bias, please. Their holding on to the wiretapping story in order not to harm Bush’s re-election bid discredits THAT particular right-wing talking point, methinks. I thnk they rightly categorize McCain as a moderate REPUBLICAN.
Nice reminder there, mrcontroversy
“Let’s review the great moderates in history, shall we? Oops, there isn’t any . . .”
I deg to biffer with that statement, Hank. Eisenhower was a two-term Republican who opposed the use of the atomic bomb on Japan, warned of the “military-industrial complex” (woah, baby, was THAT on target!), and didn’t pander to (Joe) McCarthism.
I would vote for Eisenhower in a minute over Kerry.
I’d vote for Eisenhower in a nano-second over Bush.
It’s too bad he’s not still alive. I’d love to see him chew up and spit out this snot-puke of a president.
Eisenhower also didn’t like Nixon. Hehe . . . no surprise there.
McCain a liberal? Don’t think so. He is reasonable and does a great job working with both sides. He’s not locked into one set of ideas so fast that he can’t think on his own and just do what’s right. (No pun intended) I’m pretty darn conservative, but I love McCain, even sent him money. But then I sent Dean money also. Maybe that just goes to show that we throw too many lables around. It’s a federal holiday so I might just be in a defend my union mood, but I would still take our system over any other in the world. Yes, we get it wrong some times. Both sides score victories from time to time, and both sides suffer loses. But I still beielve at the end of the day the debate leads to fairly good results. Case in point about the system working, just look at Kansas. Conservatives hold the majority of elected seats, but we have a dem for gov and the middle pushes the agenda.
I don’t know about moderate- I’m a radical centerist. A right-wing turkey doesn’t fly any better that a left-wing one!
DAMN RIGHT McCAIN IS A LIBERAL! IN FACT, HE’S A DAMN SADDAM-LOVING COMMIE! ACCORDING TO MY BUDDIES SWIFT BOATS FOR TRUTH HE CAPTURED HIMSELF IN VIETNAM JUST TO MAKE HEADLINES!
Dear ProudLiberal,
Well, I’m sure that by today’s standards Eisenhower would appear to be a ‘moderate’. He was a great American from a different time. It would be hard to classify him in today’s terms as a liberal or conservative. However, although he is considered by some to have been ‘middle-of-the-road’ he was definitely a liberal politician!
Let’s look at some of his major accomplishments as president:
Supreme Court appointments – He had the opportunity to appoint five justices to the Supreme Court. As a result of his appointments the Court pretty much took a turn so far to the left that it will take several more GWB’s to get it right. Earl Warren’s court is responsible for one of the biggest shifts to the left in the history of the court and America!
Foreign Policy – Well, where to start? Atoms for peace? Liberal! His solution for the Korean War? Liberal! His solution was a truce that is costing us 25 to 30 billion dollars a year to this day. Over fifty years since he left office! LIBERAL! His foreign policies were the foundation of the thirty-year cold war!
Domestic Policy – Well, here is where he may have done one of the greatest things in his whole presidency! He founded the Interstate Defense Highway system. The federal government took over the highway system! Now don’t get me wrong, I think the Interstate highway system is a great accomplishment! But, federal gasoline taxes? We have to have federal approval for an exit ramp to make shopping at Town West more convenient! Taking highway decisions from the states and giving them to the federal government? Liberal!
I could go on, I don’t want to belabor the point, but Eisenhower was politically a liberal. I think he was a great general and great American. But he came along at a time when this country was embroiled in a war in Southeast Asia at a time this country was fed up with war. His solutions were liberal.
I say all of this with the understanding that he also came along at a time when conservative and liberal weren’t dirty words.Hank
Dear CF,
Thank you so much for taking the time to read my post and respond.
You make me feel that my posts are not in vain!
Hank
Oh my, an admission that it was Eisenhower that brought US into the Viet Nam police actions.
Back on the topic, how about open primary system? Or is the GOP too chicken to allow freedom of choice?
Hank,
Any port in a storm, I guess.
Is it storming again?
The vast majority of Americans are against affirmative action and massive third-world immigration so just how moderate are they?
V.L.R.B!!
I guess I don’t see ‘liberal’ and ‘moderate’ as interchangeable in their usage.
“It may be argued that the United States has no nationwide conservative or liberal parties but instead only two fluctuating, all-inclusive coalitions. Both the Democrat and Republican coalitions have included interest groups labelled conservative—for example, segregationists among southern Democrats, such Republican offshoots as the local New York Conservative Party, and religious fundamentalists of both parties. On a journalistic level the word conservative has been used loosely for a segment of the Republican party associated with Sen. Barry Goldwater and Pres. Ronald Reagan.”
If I had to define liberalism, I’d say that it is pragmatic in its views but it is based in a hostility to concentrations of power that threaten the freedom of the individual and prevent him from realizing his potentialities and a willingness to re-examine and reconstruct social institutions in the light of new needs.
Aside from the last part of the above, I believe that ‘conservatives’ could accept the first part. It is the methods that differ, not necessarily the goals.
As to what a “moderate” is… a member of either party (or in fact any group) who eschews emotionalism and firebrand radicalism for contemplation, discussion, and compromise.
WHO IS JOHN GALT?
John Galt is the man who stopped the motor of the world.
hahahahahahahahahaha!
Look around we have one party with TOTAL POWER! Most facist conservatives would vote for a dead Adolf Hitler before they ever would an American statesman from the opposing party! Yet America continues to reach a point of no return in it’s dive to the bottom.The bottom in manufacturing, education, personal debt, and national debt! It’s a free fall reaching ballistic speeds!
DEAD ADOLPH HITLER? HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT WAS MY REAL VP?!