Intelligent design likes to dress itself up in scientific garb, but as a federal judge pointed out, the theory has no clothes. U.S. District Judge John E. Jones (in photo) ruledtodaythat the Dover, Pa., area school board violated the Constitution when it required that students hear a statement about ID before ninth-grade biology lessons on evolution. "In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science," Jones wrote. "We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents."
Jones also blasted the "breathtaking inanity" of the Dover school board members who approved the policy — and who since have all been voted out of office. He said that several members lied to cover up their motives even while professing religious beliefs.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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39 Comments
Hopefully, this ruling will also apply here in Kansas, and Connie Morris and hired empty suit Corkins can wail and gnash their teeth over this. Talk about “breathtaking inanity”, we have that right here.
A point upon which you and I couldn’t agree more, Mr. Thomas.
‘Breaktaking inanity.’ Man, that’s some good shit.
I can’t WAIT for the Abrams/Calvert/Corkins/Morris spin on this. Bet they’ll try to get all Pat Robertson on our collective, reality-based, ass.
So.. now we are much better off.. we now have federal judges determining what is and what isn’t science. Stop and think people, these guys can’t even agree on when you are alive and when you die. They are probably less qualified than school board members. I am not convinced that this is a step in the right direction… at least a school board member is elected and can be replaced. I fear federal judges much more than I fear local or state officials. Even if you agree with this particular decision.. it should make you nervous about what might be next. They are meddling in state and local issues IMHO.
Praise the Lord!!!
I wonder if Judge Jones would want a job in Kansas? I think he would send Phill Kline to the wood shed.
Is Intelligent Design a bridge that goes “all the way” across a river, naw, I guess that’s engineering.
No Ed,Intelligent design is something the people who advocate intelligent design didn’t do in their campaign! Surely anyone even halfway intelligent wouldn’t use such stupendously blatant lies to support a moral agenda.
Lighten-up, that’s a joke….sheeeez
{ Explanation of joke: First they tried to glue ID to science, next they might go after engineering, claiming that the “only” reason a bridge goes “all the way” across a river is because of their ID, so they really need to try to “glue it” to engineering; next maybe mathematics, as the “only” reason 2+2, oh you get the idea? }
Well, thank God the twisted left wing liberals at the WE have given us another chance to discuss ID! Thanks Phillip for providing another chance for the nitwits to bash the Christians.
Using the twisted logic that Judge Jones used to claim that the teaching of ID is unconstitutional all we have to do to get the teaching of evolution banned is to claim that evolution is God’s plan!
So all you fundemental Christians get together and endorse Darwin’s looney theory and insist that we teach it as God’s plan. We’ll have it out of the curriculum in no time!
Gentle esod (hee!)We teach evolution because all of the evidence we have suggests descent with modification. Even if the fundie Christians demand we teach it as God’s plan, we’ll still teach it because it’s good science. The way you speak, it sounds like you think ID and evolution have the same amount of research, experimentation, discussion and evidence backing them. Nope, not even close. All ID does is point out the (real and not so real) holes in evolutionary theory. We don’t know how to explain this, so God did it. Nevermind that we are continuing to search for more answers, and will certainly learn many more with the emergence of newer and better molecular technology. We haven’t thrown our hands up in the air and said “Oh, that’s it! The evolution theory is perfect! We can stop researching now, because we have The Answer!”
Out of curiosity, you dismiss Darwin’s theory as “looney”. You don’t think ANY of the phenomena we’ve observed makes sense in the context of evolution? I mean, I’m sure you took at least a high school biology class sometime. Does none of the information point to evolution in your mind–natural selection, the similarities in cell signaling from yeasts to mammals, the sequences of genes that are similar among many species (black boxes)?
Science is simply the observation of real events and then trying to put it all together. We can observe such things as the fossil record, development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, etc. That is what evolution is all about. And, esod, there is absolutely NOTHING anti-Christian about that.
Ray, I sure hope you’re right. It won’t directly apply to Kansas, of course, but it’s a devastating precedent for them.
esod, rent a brain.
Then try reading the actual decision:http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/images/12/20/kitzmiller.pdf
It’s 139 pages long, and exhaustively thorough on all points, which mainly boil down to: (1) ID isn’t science, (2) evolution is, and (3) ID’s only purposes are (a) to promote religion masquerading as science, and (b) disparage evolution.
Enjoy Judge Jones’ fine prose. We can discuss it when you get finished in, say, 2017.
Upholding the seperation of church and state as set forth in the Constitution is using twisted logic? Look who’s using “twisted logic” now.
Judge Jones just called ID what it really is. Creationism in a plain brown wrapper.
IDolaters and creationist’s arguments don’t even measure up when they use their own yardstick, the bible. One creationist told me that the reason life is imperfect is because men are sinners, therefore we are punished with disease, war and all things bad.If that’s true then a lot of what JC had to say would be null and void.
Why is it I’m not surprised that esod would come up with the incredibly inane and moronic strategy of having religion endorse evolution so that evolution can be found to violate the separation of church/state?
First, many Christian sects find evolution completely acceptable as an explanation for the working out of God’s plan. The Roman Catholic Church declared in the 1870s – over 130 years ago – that evolution presents no problems to the faith.
Second, simply having a bunch of religious loons accept something that’s already “science” as “religion” is just the type of idiotic logic we have come to expect from esod. Calling “night” “day” doesn’t make it true. Science is identified by the scientific method and physical evidence in support of a particular viewpoint while religion is identified by faith in the absence of scientific evidence.
I’d be more than willing to have ID taught in the schools as soon as an ID proponent produces physical evidence for the existence of an “intelligence” guiding the development of life forms on earth.
Men are sinners. Men are imperfect. Man is created in God’s image.
Therefore; God must be a sinner and imperfect.
Ben, you might want to brush up on your theology.
This ruling is one man’s opinion about a case in a school district in Pennsyvania. One man, who probably had the same kind of prejudices that we all have about the subject, decides. I view that as a problem with our system. The judge’s unprofessional comments about the school board members demonstrate his prejudiced attitude.
This subject is not going away and will be revisited I’m sure,in courts again and again. And, in the end, despite all their wisdom and power, there is one thing that the courts won’t ever be able to do. They can’t make evolution the truth.
The attorneys for the parents subpoenaed the pu blisher of “Of Pandas and People” for early drafts. They discovered that the early drafts used “creation” and “creationism” where “intelligent design” is now found.
Further, it was shown that the money for the “Of Pandas and People” texts that the school had came from a church fundraiser with the money laundered through the father of one of the school board members.
The judge simply found, as the Supreme Court has, that creationism violates the establishment clause, and that there was ample proof that ID is just another name for creationism.
Evolution doesn’t attack religion, quite the contrary, it enhances it: Where there is a plan, there is a planner. From the “big Bank” to a hummingbird, God has a step by step process by which he goes about doing things. Science is a special gift from God by which he allows us a view into his inner workings.
The narrow-mindedness of religion has always been its greatest threat.
I wonder how long before this REPUBLICAN, Bush appointed, judge will be called an “activist judge.”
The process of understanding the universe through science is only just beginning. Man has always used religion to try and make sense of what he doesn’t understand. I really think that as we evolve in our knowlege and understanding, our reliance on religion to answer all questions will dissipate and our understanding of God will expand.
Damoon, A big Well Said.
Anon,You are right Judge John E. Jones, III was a Bush person all the way. See this link for a story concerning that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/18/national/18judge.html
What should be clear to Conservative Christian Rebpulicans, is the fact that the cosummation of the marriage between them and G.W. Bush was not an act of love on G.W.’s part. In fact, I bet as G.W. rolled over to go to sleep he muttered something like – “Christian Right, Ha! they’re nothing but a bunch of stupid, God da** voters”.
God gave us science to understand His creation. God gave us faith and the Holy Spirit to understand God. Science by definition cannot and will not ever lead you to God. The creation can never define the Creator, it will only give you subtle clues to His character and majesty. Scientifically pursuing God only proves lack of faith, IMHO.
Thanks Sam,You hit the nail square on the head! Science can neither confirm or deny God, and anybody that tries to use it that way is no scientist.
Sam and Jed,My two cents on you guys’ points . . .
To argue about the existence of God is to commit the classic logical fallacy known as argumetum ad ignorantiam. Argumentum ad ignorantiam means “argument from ignorance.” The fallacy occurs when it’s argued that something must be true, simply because it hasn’t been proved false. Or, equivalently, when it is argued that something must be false because it hasn’t been proved true.
To argue about the existence of God necessarily requires that we argue from a position of ignorance. Something that is not productive in a logical or scientific endeavor.
Sam, I do not mean to be dismissive of your obvious faith. Faith may be equivalent or even exceed empiricism in your world view. I am talking here about what can be observed and perceived in our worldly restrictions. [hope that makes sense.]
Steven,You are quite right, of course. Science, by definition, does not, and cannot address metaphysical questions.Unfortunately, there are too many people who either try to make it do so, or castigate “Godless science.” It’s part of the old “if you ain’t with us, you’re agin us” argument, and if there’s one thing these jokers can’t stand, it’s when someone refuses to take sides in their inane disputes.
Steven.No offense taken:)
Uh oh Jed.. I may fall into that category.. I don’t make too many friends in “religious” arguments…
Sam,Then maybe arguing religion isn’t the productive way to go. Just keeping your mouth shut, and living the life you’ve chosen will probably do more for your cause than all the arguments in the world. People follow examples better than sermons, and your example is worth more than every sermon ever preached! Keep it up, and even if they don’t attach Jesus name to it, they’ll be better people for it.
Jed…Actually, I was talking about my conversations with my buds in the church circles. Sometimes my actions appeal more to my unchurched brothers than they do to the Terry Fox’s of the world. But.. ya gotta do what you gotta do.. even if it isn’t popular!Hope you get some quality time with family and friends this season. Looking forward to making some stuff happen in 2006! Take care :)
Sam,Already getting it, and more’s on the way! By New Year’s Day, I’ll be looking forward to some quality time with my own head!And yeah, there’s a lot that needs to happen, and between the two of us (and anyone else that cares to join), maybe we can get some of it done!You take care too, and I hope you get a permanent residence soon! That’ll feel good!
Did anyone read Terry Fox’s editorial in todays paper? What a jerk. It amazing to me that anyone takes him seriously.
The Ayatollah Fox believes that he has a right to force his beliefs into law and force us to obey them. He should minister to his flock and quit trying to force his beliefs on the rest of us. We have seen his kind in the Taliban.
Damoon, I read it. He’s another one who makes you feel like you need to take a shower. What a bloviating jackass.
What’s really scary is that there are a LOT of jackasses out there who look up to him and parrot his moronic religious beliefs and intolerance of anyone who doesn’t belive the way he does.
Until advocates of Darwin’s theory admit to the naturalistic assumptions upon which it rests, this is going nowhere. Those who study physical elements and don’t buy into random processs or gradualism are considered “unscientific”, and we get a lot of pejoratives to boot.By the way, a growing number of people opposed to these assumptions are coming from many corners, not just Christians. If you care to open your mind to some of the possibilities, you can go to the Discovery Intstitute’s site atwww.discovery.org/
With regard to Judge Jones’ ruling: This is simply defining and enforcing the party line, not opening up students’ mind to the world around them.
JD,Correct me if I’m wrong, but did you just champion the so-called “deterministic/clockwork mechanics” by your refusal to allow for random processes to occur? To my knowledge, this viewpoint has been shown to be incorrect at fundamental (quantum) level. I recall Einstein himself had been angered by this revelation, “God doesn’t play dice with the universe,” to which Bohr(?) snapped back, “Who is Einstein to tell God what to do?”