As one Wichita adult store stands newly indicted for allegedly promoting obscenity, a pressing related question in Topeka is: When is a tax increase not a tax increase? Apparently when it’s offset by a tax cut. This novel thinking is the work of promoters of a bill to levy a 10 percent “porn tax,” many of whom are among the 31 state legislators who have made the Kansas Taxpayers Network’s pledge never to vote to raise taxes. According to the Lawrence Journal-World, those signaling interest in having it both ways included state Sens. Tim Huelskamp, R-Fowler, and Kay O’Connor, R-Olathe. Can the lawmakers justify this leap of logic to their constituents? More important: Does $1 million a year in potential revenue from newly taxing adult businesses and products justify the costs of enforcement and legal challenge?
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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42 Comments
Good point, Rhonda, but you omitted something important: taxing speech is blatantly unconstitutional. And defending the indefensible in court will end up costing far more than any revenue that would be theoretically generated, which plainly won’t even happen in the first place.
Support your local schools- buy more porn!
Hehehe!
Jed, if I wasn’t a straight male, I’d kiss you on the mouth!
Come on folks, leave the porn shops alone. At least they are making a profit and do not need to be funded by the city to stay open.
But…Just..haven’t you heard? According to the zealots, porn causes crime, destroys families, leads to “addiction” and is likely responsible for global warming, planetary wobble and bird flu…
Ok, just kidding on the last ones, but you should read some of “Operation Southwind’s” material. I went to one of their meetings, and listened to how they plan to “legislate morality” and protect the citizens from the harm of pornography.
We can all sleep better at night knowing we are protected by a bunch of do-gooders who want to run our lives.
What the fight on porn does is distract people from dealing with the real issues.
Stopping porn isn’t going to make any difference in the rate of divorce.
Stopping porn isn’t going to stop rape, that’s a crime about control.
STopping porn isn’t going to stop child abuse.
Instead of telling people it will, why not look into the REAL reasons these crimes happen.
Guess that would take actual work, it’s easier to pick a hot button item and run with it.
Then we’ll have to start up surrounding states border crossings, as everyone will drive to surrounding states to by their porn in order to avoid the tax. Sheesh, another boondoggle.
Hehehehehe, JM
Massachusetts and New Hampshire had something similar hapen related to alcohol. Massachusetts doesn’t have stste liquor stores, NH does. Massachusetts used to have blue laws, NH didn’t (and doesn’t). So many MA residents would make the trip to NH to buy alcohol and then return to MA. This amounts to transporting alcohol across state lines, and MA law forbade that.
So the MA state police started posting undercover agents at NH state liquor stores who would radio back the license plate #s of MA residents buying liquor in NH to units on the MA side of the border. They would get picked up as they crossed the police would violate their asses.
Needless to say this angered many MA residents and led to a lawsuit as to whether one state can post its police in another state. Guess what the ruling was???
No, stopping porn won’t stop child abuse or rape, but it least outlawing it might help dispel the notion that it’s OK to use women and children as objects for sexual gratification. The more prolific something becomes, the more accepted it is by society.Rapists GET their sexual gratification from controlling someone else.Pornography is addictive and destructive, just ask any mental health professional. Please educate yourselves.
Damoon..
Alcohol is proven to be addictive and destructive, remember history of when the country tried to ban it? Banning something because of possible or perceived harm infringes on freedoms of the majority.
Passing laws will not change behavior, whether it is drinking or buying material that upsets some people. Passing laws to ban/tax/close adult stores in Wichita will increase online business, and will not change any behavior one iota.
All passing laws to tax/ban/forbid adult material will do is to inconvenience the consenting adults who choose to purchase these materials. It will not stop rapists. It will not stop “addictive behavior” and it will not stop exploitation.
Great job by the Mullahs of Kansas. What a waste of taxpayer dollars. We really need to start taxing churches.
The incidence of sexual exploitation of children has dramatically increased in the last few years. All violent crimes across the nation have decreased except for rape.I’m interested on your ideas why the numbers of sex crimes are increasing. Rather than to say it’s going to happen no matter what anyone does, what is your take on why it’s happening in the first place? Especially when it comes to children. Why are the numbers increasing? There was around 4,000 cases reported of child sexual explotation in 1997, last year there were over 81,000 cases reported in this country. What is making the difference? I really want ALL of you to answer why you think this is happening, not just reply with your views on pornography. We’ve been there and done that.
Damoon–
If you have any emperical evidence linking the existence of porn shops to child abuse, please share them. Comparing one statistic with another is NOT proving cause and effect.
To do so is erroneous and without merit. For example, we can postulate that there are more airplanes today than 100 years ago, and there are more divorces. Therefore, airplanes cause divorce?
Your claim seems to imply a relationship between viewing porn and child abuse. Please demonstrate a valid cause and effect. My wife and I have bought adult toys in the past, yet neither of us have ever molested a child. Where is your VALID correlation?
Damoon….Why are the numbers increasing? My opinion is in two words.. THE INTERNET. Porn is piped right into our living rooms, and those with pedophile tendencies now have a more secretive method to lure children. That is a bad combination!
Damoon,At least some of the increase must be credited to increased reporting. We’ve lived for so long in a society where the blame for sex crimes is laid on the victim that many went unreported. Of course a woman is asking to be raped if she wears a short skirt, or acts in a way that’s perceived to be provocative! Of course that 10 year-old seduced her father! That gay man was looking at me!As we move away from that view, we should expect, and welcome, an increase in reported crimes. It means we’re finally doing our job as a society.
Ray, it comes from my experience of being a mental health professional and working with both victims and perpetrators for many years. I can say without a doubt that perpetrators who are addicted to pornography tend to act out more. It’s not the healthy mind that I worry about, it’s those with the antisocial personalities who prey upon vulnerable women and children. Pornography often feeds their perversion.I’m not suggesting that sex shops are the direct cause of child abuse, I’m saying that the proliferation of pornography further validates the notion that it’s normal and OK (some even argue “healthy”) to use women and children as objects of sexual gratification. Like I said before, educate yourself, the info is there if you’re only willing to research it a little.Pornography and sexual addiction is a huge problem in this country, and no one wants to address it. Your point about trying to outlaw alcohol is a good example. Prohibition obviously didn’t work, but that doesn’t mean we can’t regulate alcohol. Just because it’s legal, doesn’t mean that people can drive drunk or buy it for their kids without legal consequences.I’m not saying that sex shops that sell “toys” shouldn’t be allowed to, I’m saying that I don’t believe they should be able to sell hard core porn. There is a difference. There’s nothing wrong with having community standards that the sex shops should adhere to.Now, I hope I’ve answered your question, will you answer mine?
From 4,000 to 81,000 in a few years, Jed? I think there’s more to that then an increase in reporting!I think Sam is more on target.
Sam,The approach of supply-side morality is always doomed to failure, as evidenced in prohibition and the war on drugs, etc. You just can’t eliminate temptation; there will always be a black market for anything you try to ban, and it will always be much worse than a legitimate source. Changing attitudes is much harder than banning something, but it’s the only way that has a chance for success!
Da,I didn’t say all, but I’ve known women who, when they reported a rape, were considered “damaged goods” by family and friends. I knew a girl who was thrown out of her home when she told her mother she was pregnant after being molested by her stepfather at age 12. I met a kid who was beaten by his family for attacking the faith after he reported a pedophile priest.When object lessons such as these are the rule rather than the exception, it can’t help but discourage reporting by most victims of sex crimes. Last time I looked, the estimates were that more than 70% of rapes went unreported.When society finally listens to the victims and successfully prosecutes the offenders, more and more victims are encouraged to come forward and add themselves to the reported numbers.We probably haven’t yet understood the full extent of sex crimes today, much less known the real numbers from years past, so whatever figures we now have can’t tell us if there’s been an increase or decrease in actual sex crimes, so postulating on causes at this time is somewhat of an exercise in futility.
Damoon,According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report 2004, the overall volume, and the rate per 100,000 of Forcible rape _decreased_ from 2002 to 2004.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/documents/CIUS2004.pdf
This category excluded statutory rape and other sex crimes. Will look into this further when I have more time.
I don’t think the argument that because pornography is bad for some people, all people should not be allowed to have it. One could make the same argument that cars are not good for some people.
I remember one time arguing with a psychiatrist that a manipulative borderline patient, while not meaning to kill herself, could do so accidently. This man pointed out to me that this concern could be true of all of us. No risk = no life – was the unspoken piece of his message.
Damoon..
I can’t answer your question because there is no simple answer. Socio-economic reasons, permissiveness, decline of western civilization, etc. could all have a part.
I have no clue why sex crimes appear to be increasing. I further have no clue why there have been so many female teachers having sex with their young students. I have no idea why this is happening.
I never pretended to have the answers. I just strenuously object to the concept of a few radical zealots using the law to force their version of religion and morality on the rest of us.
It’s funny how we never missed porn when it wasn’t that available. I’d at least like to see it harder to obtain than it is today. It’s saturating our society and even coming into our homes unless we take extra care to lock it out.If you’re interested in learning more about the subject, here are a couple of books that address the subject:”Against Pornography:The Evidence of Harm” by Diana E H Russelland”Pornography and Sexual Aggression” by Catherine Itzin and Pat Cos.I think serious study into why sex crimes are increasing while other violent crime is going down is valid. Even if the increase in numbers is due to the increase in reporting (which I doubt), there is still no excuse for over 81,000 children each year being sexually exploited in our country. When we figure out all the factors that predispose the problem of sexual abuse, then we can start to do something about it.I still believe porn is harmful to women and children and there has been a lot of research done that backs up my opinion.I think some of you don’t understand the difference between erotica and porn.
Reality check folks…… Whether you like it or not, porn is here to stay because PEOPLE want it. And as long as people want it, there will be someone to provide it. Period, end of discussion. Compare the number of “hits” on an internet porn site, compared to other sites.
The crimes against women are society based, not porn based.
Until Society stops treating women as second class citizens there will be crimes against women.
I believe some religions brainwash their congregations. They teach a flawed message to force their own interpretations on everyone else.In my opinion they should be banned from that practise.
The same things goes with porn. A small percentage might use it to exploit others, but does that mean everyone should have it banned from their use?
Man, the truth is that MEN, not “people” want porn. Women hardly pay any attention to it at all, almost everone who sudscribes to it or explores it on the internet is male. Males make up more than 95% of sexual perpetrators. Porn has been shown to alter the way a man views a woman and makes him more accepting of her victimization. This has been studied in the lab over and over again to the same conclusion.
Sum1, Please read the book I mentioned above “Against Pornography: The Evidence of Harm”. Society tolerates porn as a result of viewing women as second class citizens. It’s just one more way to victimize, humiliate, and degrade women to order to “keep them in their place”. I honestly believe after researching and studying the subject that it’s a backlash to the women’s movement. Porn didn’t become so prolific until the 70’s, when the women’s movement really gained momentum.
Da,How many women out there read those steamy romance novels, and can’t get enough of “Sex in the City?” Men’s and women’s porn may take different forms, but the content is still the same.
No, there is a difference, Jed. Erotica is not porn. Erotica is more respectful, portrays people as equals, there is usually empathy, emotion, and affection. There is usually a relationship between the characters.Porn is more base, where one is person is dominent over another, there is no connection, respect, or empathy. The more submissive character is treated as an object for gratification, not a person. For example, the depiction of a rape for the purpose of titillation is pornography. Two consenting lovers having sex that is mutualy satisfying is erotica.That’s the difference. I’m not opposed to erotica, because it’s not humiliating or degrading to women.”Steamy romance novels” and porn are two different things.
Damoon,Catherine MacKinnon and her acolytes have been pounding this drum for ages now. The method of argument when I lost interest in the early 90’s was bald assertion followed by outrage. Has anything changed?
Da,So what gets you off is “erotica,” and what gets men off is “porn.” Sounds like you’ve got a bit of a sexist thing going yourself!
I don’t “get off” on either, But erotica is less harmful than porn.
Would you embrace an entertainment that specifically exploits black people by humiliating, devaluing, controlling, and objectifing them for a white person’s entertainment? I would hope not. Then why does our society tolerate women being treated that way? How is it different?John Lennon was right when he said that “Woman is the nigger of the world”. WE need to quit being treated like second class citizens as well.
Rage, research has concluded many times that being exposed to porn over and over alters the way men view women and allows them to become more accepting of a woman’s victimization.You guys can try to debunk the research that’s been done, but it’s still comes to the same conclusion no matter how you look at it.Just like it’s also been proven that people who are desensitized by being exposed to violence over and over will usually exhibit more violent behavior.Desensitizing ourselves to dysfunctional behaviors make those behaviors seem more normal and we tend to accept them more.That’s just the way the human mind works.
*”Steamy romance novels” and porn are two different things.*
Damoon, well said. You explained the differences very well, but I doubt these guys will buy into it. I doubt they’ve bothered to read a romance novel (steamy or otherwise) in their lives. My guess is that more have viewed porn than have bothered to pick up and read a romance novel. It’s the nature of the beast. (Add a grin to that so as not to offend.)
I agree with you that porn is degrading to women. I also agree with Sum1 that the problem is societal. Unfortunately, some of the blame can be placed on religions that have taught that women should be subservient to men. There are men who take this to the extreme, so I feel it’s rather ironic that it’s a religious group that’s stirring up the trouble. Closing porn shops will not stop the trafficking of porn. As long as there are those who will pay to view it, it will be available. Reaching out to the women who are involved in it might be one answer. Then again, those running the porn businesses have their ways of working around even that. Sadly, I don’t have an answer, but going to the extreme of banning it completely won’t stop it.
While I’m at it, I’ll come out of the closet, so to speak, because I get really, really tired of the cliches. I write romance. In fact, my 5th romance novel will hit shelves in April. My publisher “publishes close to 110 titles a month in 27 languages in 95 international markets on six continents. These books are written by over 1,300 talented authors worldwide, offering women a broad range of reading from romance to psychological thrillers to relationship novels. With 144 million books sold in 2003 — half overseas and a tremendous 96% outside Canada, it is both the country’s most successful publisher and one of its most international businesses.” The romance books range from Inspirational (Christian) romance to Erotica, with a wide variety in between, including adventure, paranormal, and suspense. I can’t vouch for the erotica because my tastes don’t lean in that direction, but I can safely say (again) that romance novels are not about sex. They’re about relationships. Yes, some, although not all, do contain “love scenes,” but these are a part of the emotional journey of the partners in the relationship and are far from the S&M/rape some would like to beleive. These books contain characters who are consenting adults and are nothing like the novels of the past. Women characters in current romance novels are strong, gutsy, intelligent, caring individuals, who range from single moms to CEO’s. These books teach that women have value and are equals to men. They promote and encourage loving, caring relationships, something some women never experience. Not such a bad message, after all. And, believe it or not, men DO read romance.
(Climbing down from my soapbox…)
Cool!! I wish I had enough talent to write a book…..way to go RD!
I find this interesting: Virgin Airlines has just installed urinals in the bathrooms of their guest clubhouse at JFK airport that are the shape of women’s mouths. The company states “This is one target that men won’t miss”.If the urinals were shaped like a black person’s face and mouth, do you think it would be tolerated?
Woman will be treated like doormats as long as we continue to lay on the floor.
Any comments? Or is this thread going to go silent?
Yeah Da,And a woman ceramist I knew made and showed a working toilet with a man’s face in the bottom of the bowl back in the late ’70’s.
And she was wrong, too.
Did they install her toilets at the local airport?
Da,I don’t know where it was installed. It was bought out of her show by a collector for $85,000, so I’d imagine that, while it was a functional toilet, it’s never been actually used as such.
Really? $85,000? I’m getting my pottery wheel out of the closet!!
Da,While you’re there, you’ll need to get out a real load of talent, 14 years of critical raves and a one-person show at a prestigious New York gallery, if you expect her prices!PS. The gallery’s commission was 55%, and it’s gone up since then.
Heck, I’d do that for half the price!Unfortunately, developing my artistic talents took a backseat while I was busy raising kids and earning a living. My kids still buy me art supplies for Xmas, maybe I can get back to it after I retire. It’s always been a dream of mine.
Damoon I hear ya’I've got a professional’s easel out in the garage, it’s been there for years.Just for conversation take a look at waynewildcat.com. Verrrry interesting artwork.