More news that should raised concerns among Americans who care about privacy and personal rights: President Bush secretly authorized in 2002 to allow the National Security Agency to monitor international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of Americans and others inside the United States without court-approved warrants, The New York Times reported. Defenders say the surveillance has been a critical tool in helping disrupt terrorist plots and prevent attacks inside the United States, The Times reported. But what about constitutional protections? And shouldn’t the government at least have to get a court’s approval?
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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68 Comments
Totalitarianism: it’s not just for Germany and Russia any more!
The last time I checked, we still had a Constitution. I suggest that everyone, left, right, and center, has an interest in insisting that George Bush remain bound by it. He’s not a king. He’s a chief executive and an elected official. If he isn’t willing to bow before Constitutional authority, he needs to be impeached.
If there’s such a thing as a non-partisan case for impeachment, this is it.
Just said on GMA: And he vows to continue the practice. Remind me, who’s intent is it to destroy the American way? When your house is on fire, you call the fire department. You do not throw gas on the fire to save your home!
Nor in the defense of your country do you undermine the principals that make your country strong… Food for thought: EVERYONE IS A CRIMINAL! No one is without commiting a crime in their life. You may not know you have commited a crime. You may not think you have commited a crime. By law, any law enforcement officer who comes upon a crime. Must act on that crime, wheither it was their intent to find that crime.
What does that mean? The NSA montored your e-mails because you are sending or receiving e-mails to someone in France that you met in a on-line board. While doing so you have stated that Bush was wrong in his reasons for the invasion. They check on your other on-line activities and in doing so they find something that is illegal in your state. That you were not aware was illegal. They will report you to the state police, they have to.
Just because your actions did not involve terrorist acts. Does not mean that you are safe from the government. Nor under the Patriot act does the law have to limit themselves to terrorist acts to pry into your life. Bush allowed an agency that duty was to snoop on other countries to snoop on you. Without cause or real reason.
All in the name of defending the American way. Again under such actions they are not limited to concerns of national interests.Again, are you sure that there is nothing in your life that you have done or have in your home that is not illegal?
The government should and must get a warrant for this sort of tap. The President broke the law. I’ve blogged this heavily.
These actions are not justifiable. If there was genuine cause for the taps, the president could have gotten a warrant, and if he couldn’t be bothered to get a warrant, he shouldn’t have bothered spying on people like me, citizens of the United States.
Just keep blogging those lies. This is just one of several bogus stories designed to keep Iraq elections off the news.The Times had this top secret story for a year and is just printing it? Timing is suspicous.What I want to know is who leakd top secret information and why is the reporter not in jail till he gives up the leaker. Dims sure put one in jail to try to get Libby for a non crime memory problem.
31 years ago, Republicans of integrity looked at the facts, winced, and voted to impeach the president of their own party.
One of the few who voted no on all three counts was a freshman congressman named Trent Lott. The new Republican “leadership” show us how much the national party has changed. It’s rotten to the core.
Bush said he consulted with Congress–probably yet another baldfaced lie from a serial liar–implicating our own Senator Roberts as a co-conspirator. Pardon or not, would Gerald Ford or Howard Baker put up with this crap?
Nixon told America he was not a crook. Bush and his people prefer redefine the law to their own liking, in secret, but this doesn’t change the fact the Bush blatantly broke the law, and he had the gall not only to admit it, but dare to tell us that he won’t stop doing it!
The constitution says that you impeach presidents for “high crimes and misdemeanors.” I suspect instead Arlen Specter will spank him good, and move on. How is this less criminal than unauthorized weenie moistening?
The key seems to be in the answer to questions arising from this paragraph of the NYT story:
“The revelation that Mr. Bush had secretly instructed the security agency to intercept the communications of Americans and terrorist suspects inside the United States, without first obtaining warrants from a secret court that oversees intelligence matters, was cited by several senators as a reason for their vote.”
The question is, why did the president choose means outside the law to obtain information that could have been obtained both lawfully and secretly?
Of course, that question’s only the tip of an iceberg-quantity of questions likely to follow any answer.
LOL! People are so paranoid.
I guess people forgot that Clinton used the IRS to spy on political enemies.
All president do something that anybody can intreprete as a negative.
But I for one live my life with no fear and a smile on my face. I’m not afraid of Bush spying on me. LOL! It is so comical.
I guess people really think that Bush is going to steal your libererties from underneath you. You guys are just paranoid. Well! Lets just say hateful leftist.
Too funny! Everything is politicized now days, even National Security.
Well, said, Joe! Like the NSA is interested in listening to private conversations. Like they have the time to listen in on every one of 200 million people’s private lives?
I have worked with people from the Joint Terrorism Task Force. They are serious, dedicated professionals who do not have the time or inclination to listen in on Aunt Maude’s phone calls.
Show me where there is an absolute right to privacy in the Constitution. Yes, there are Constitutional protections against “unreasonable search and seizure”, but that does not mean that everything you do, say, or think is guaranteed to be sacred and PRIVATE. Get real.
The overwhelming level of paranoia is amazing.
I note that secrecy makes an excellent petri dish for breeding paranoia. Add the steady drumbeat of terrorism, and you have an environment where even bedrock American principles and their importance can be overlooked. ;)
Sigh…
We are all guaranteed unenumerated rights in the Constitution. The Bill of Rights is NOT a complete list of those rights we all have. In factg rights are not “granted” by a Constitution, or any legal document.The Constitution is not meant to decree what rights we have, but simply to reconcile the rights we inherently possess with one another in the context of a legal framework in order to maintain a civil society. And whether or not such a society and its accompanying system of government does, in fact, protect those rights, those rights remain legitimate. Rights do not depend on law or the lack thereof; they do not depend on anything. That is what makes them inalienable.
Maybe it would be good to review the “penumbra” rights that the Supreme Court has recognized. Things like the right to marital privacy, the right to free association, the right to free travel among the various states of the United States, etc.
Griswold v. Connecticut recognized the right to privacy as one of these penumbra rights. And the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates the Bill of Rights. The Fourteenth Amendment was designed to constrain and subjugate states. The point is that the doctrine of substantive due process is used to take all the important rights of the Bill of Rights and funnel them into the Fourteenth Amendment to make them applicable against the states.
And in the meantime, people that are literally willing to die to kill innocent civilians are laughing their socks off at us. By sheer force of paranoia, we make it easier for terrorists to function, to operate, and to learn how to kill us.
Oh yeah…we can hide behind our privacy paranoia right up to the time that another Al Queda bomber flies another plane into a building, killing thousands. Then, just watch, the people who are screaming the loudest now about loss of privacy will be the same ones blaming the government for failing to protect them.
You want it both ways? That is not realistic…we must sacrifice something to be able to effectively fight those who kill indiscriminately.
Sacrificing rights that are inalienable is impossible.
It’s also wrong.
It also means appeasing terrorists right out of the box, no shots need be fired.
It’s giving up.
Never, never, never give up even one right. Not even one.
You are dead wrong, Ray.
Ray,There is nothing paranoid about the right to privacy, There IS paranoia when a government starts eavesdropping on it’s own citizens, without following its own rules. That’s when the right to privacy takes presidency over the governments’ illegal evidence gathering.
There are laws put in place that spell out what the government can and cannot do to circumvent those rights. Apparently, Bush has taken it on himself to violate the rights of the people of this country in order to “protect them from Al-Quida elements”. Kinda scary, don’t you think?
To violate the laws of the United States Government is a crime punishable by, in the Presidents case, impeachment. Remember Nixon? He quit because he lied to the American people. Clinton was impeached for the same reason.
Bush has continuously lied to the American people and violated their right to privacy. The man is a loose cannon, and unworthy of the post he holds. He deserves nothing less than impeachment, in my opinion. He has made a mockery of the laws of this land.
Isn’t it interesting that some individuls seem willing to let certain rights be shredded without so much as a comment. Yet these same people will howl up a storm when certain other rights are even discussed in terms of their extent and their limits – like the right to bear arms.
Well. It’s good to hear the usual apologists sucking up and apologizing for the actions of this would-be absolute monarch we call ‘President’. Score one for consistency, I guess.
I wonder what it would take to get Ray Thomas and Joe Williams concerned about THEIR civil liberties? Apparently, for the Executive Branch to overstep its Constitutional authority isn’t enough.
Bush hates us for our freedom. That’s why he’s detemrined to take it away from us.
I cannot believe the rampant paranoia alive and well here. Do you people REALLY think that the NSA is listening in on your phone calls? Do you really think that GW Bush is Darth Vader and the Evil Empire is out to destroy every one of us?
Ok..I am dead wrong. Ok, I am in cahoots with the evil empire. Ok, I am a Storm Trooper in disguise. Fine…accuse me of anything and everything you want. And, in the meantime, the next time Al Queda takes out a building, just don’t stand and scream how the government failed you.
Ray–Martin Luther King, Saul Alinsky, Edward R. Murrow, Ralph Nader and any number of famous Americans that have high schools and highways named after them had at one time FBI files a foot thick on them.
When Timothy McVey and his small town Kansas buddy Nichols blew up the Murrah Federal Building in nearby Oklahoma, I didn’t hear the right-wing screaming for more domestic and illegal spying on right-wing groups. In fact, the Branch Davidians (or as I call them, the wacko-s in Waco) became a cause celebre for the right-wing.
Funny how when the terrorists speak “redneck”, they need constitutional protection, but when they speak Arabic, we should shred the constitution “for our own safety.”
Walker–
“Bush has continuously lied to the American people and violated their right to privacy. The man is a loose cannon, and unworthy of the post he holds. He deserves nothing less than impeachment, in my opinion. He has made a mockery of the laws of this land.”
BRAVO! I apologize for confusing you with a Bush-backer on a previous post.
The argument that we should sacrifice “something” in order to effectively fight those who would destroy us is a valid one, Ray.
And I am not challenging your patriotism nor am I challenging your integrity.
The trouble with your argument is that it’s already been decided in every war that the US has won.
When it comes to compromising our own constitution in order to somehow appease terrorists (or British or Germans or Japanese) or ameloriate their anger, then before 9/11 we Americans had never done that – on a scale defined by the “Patriot” Act and stretched further by the disclosure that Pres. Bush has authorized the NSA to spy on American citizens in a way outside laws existing for that very purpose – because it’s anti-American. It’s anti-American because we believe that these rights cannot be compromised.
Americans sacrifice blood to win wars, not rights.
Galahad,I have always dis-liked Bush. But you have to remember, I also dislike Democrats and Republicans. I DO like Americans who can think for themselves, something I find lacking in both parties:-)
Ok, people. Take a breath, put down the knives. Please re-read my posts. I never once said I support Bush’s violation of established law. I thought it was wrong when Nixon did it, and I think it is wrong when Bush does it.
I am just making a point of paranoia. Settle down a little, people. Recognize that there are some serious, dedicated terrorists who will willingly die to kill as many of us as possible.
All I am saying is that this paranoia over absolute privacy makes it easier for them and tougher to fight them.
Does it REALLY matter if someone knows what library book I checked out last summer? No, it does not. The paranoia about absolute privacy has gotten ridiculous, and I was trying to point that out.
In the meantime, I get accused of everything in the world. Get a grip, people.
For the record, NO, I do not support, excuse, apologize for or condone the violation of established law by the Bush Administration in failing to get warrants. Nor do I condone the violation of civil rights on a wholesale level.
Ray and Joe,Your comments are un-American. This is a country built on rights. Anyone, especially the president, who denies or takes away those rights violates the principals that make us what we are. It’s not just the NSA revelations. It’s the constant drumbeat of liberties and rights this administration takes away from us. And they do it in secret.There’s the The Counterintelligence Field Activity, or CIFA, a 3 year old agency, that spys on us. It began as a small policy-coordination office but has grown to encompass nine directorates and a staff exceeding 1,000.”The agency’s Talon database, collecting unconfirmed reports of suspicious activity from military bases and organizations around the country, has included “threat reports” of peaceful civilian protests and demonstrations.”Now that sounds a lot like what we thought we’d outlawed in the 70s.
There’s the issue of “security letters”.”Created in the 1970s for espionage and terrorism investigations, the letters enabled secret FBI review of the private telephone and financial records of suspected foreign agents.” Notice that security letters were created to investigate “SUSPECTED FORIEGN AGENTS”.”The Bush administration’s guidelines after the Patriot Act transformed those letters by permitting clandestine scrutiny of U.S. residents and visitors who are not alleged to be terrorists or spies.”So tell me, you Bush appoligists, why are we spying on people who are not suspected of being spys or terriorists? Do you agree with this kind of violation of our rights? I call it un-American! What would you call it?”The FBI has issued tens of thousands of national security letters, extending the bureau’s reach as never before into the telephone calls, correspondence and financial lives of ordinary Americans. Most of the U.S. residents and citizens whose records were screened, the FBI acknowledged, were not suspected of wrongdoing.”So if they’re not suspected of wrongdoing, why are they being spied on?”The burgeoning use of national security letters coincided with an unannounced decision to deposit all the information they yield into government data banks — and to share those private records widely, in the federal government and beyond. In late 2003, the Bush administration reversed a long-standing policy requiring agents to destroy their files on innocent American citizens, companies and residents when investigations closed.”Why are the records of innocent Americans being compiled in a national database? What does this have to do with the war on terror?Brian makes an interesting point about Second Amendment Rights. I’ve seen conservatives throw fits about being registered as gun owners in a national database. But being secretly put in a Talon database doesn’t bother you? That smells of hypocracy.
You conservatives need to wake up. Your Great Leader is rapidly turning America into a police state.If we give up the freedoms that make us America, the terrorists have won.
What’s interesting about his whole story, is that the court approval actions required in using the NSA is completely pro-forma and perfunctory. There is even a provision that the court can be contacted after a wire tap is in progress.
This is about Bush not being willing to follow rules. Plain and Simple.
But when, has anyone ever asked GW Bush to follow the rules. Those inconveniences do not apply to him.
He is the type of narcissist who thinks that when he is being tared and feathered and run out of town, that he is actually leading a parade. Just pathetic.
We share in the blame, we too have failed to give this clown any accurate feedback. If we had, he would be leading parades in his fevered imagination down in Crawford, TX.
Ray,You said in an earlier post that “the next time an Al-Queda bomber flies another plane unto a building”, I for one have a hard time envisioning them being able to do something like that again. Everybody who was alive on 9/11 knows the score on that game. I don’t believe 4 or 5 guys with box cutters or even machetes could order everybody to the back of the plane while they fly it into a building. I am an infrequent flier, but if I am on a plane and an Arab or other terrorist type orders me to move, he is going to have a problem on his hands called non compliance. And I’m willing to bet I’d have some support. I would rather die standing than live on my knees.If we have to change our constitution, and re-define our country to appease terrorists, then they have already won.
Galahad,Chillingly true observation on the topic “When terrorist speak redneck”.
I’m always glad whan Galahad posts. I’m afraid I might not know what I’m supposed to think until I hear from Galahad.
Bush got caught as he crossed the line. He didn’t get wire-tap warrants because he’d have to name the people he wanted to spy on. By violating the constitutional ban, he could spy on whomever he wished without naming them and no record would exist.
That is as rank a violation as it gets. The term “suspected terrorist” could apply to my cat.
If there was such a thing as “terrorism,” which I will never concede, the so-called “war on terrorism” would have ended in Afghanistan.
Bush let it slip when he said if he knew all the intelligence was fake, he’d have still invaded killing all those Iraq and all of our soldiers because Iraq would still remain a possible threat to our allies in the reign { that means Israel } as Israel remains a target due to its murdering ways.
Bush will try to justify his anti-American stance. The weak-minded Bush has been talked into doing the work for American traitors by leading the charge of the Zionists of Israel. Israel is a rogue State driven by lawless greed, which murders Palestinians daily.
Israel invented “terrorism” to describe Palestinian resistance to its brutality. Israel is little more than a disgusting collection of would be thugs and Nazis. They claim to have been brutalized by the Nazis, yet Israelis have become worse in their 60 year ongoing, never-ending murdering spree.
Zionist Israel is a terrorist country, they invented it, collect money for it, and they blame it on others.
Steve–
You want to know what to think?
Repeat to yourself “I will stop being an idiot” over and over.
Maybe it will help . . .
Brown…
Did I ever say anything about passenger planes? Al Queda is many things, but not stupid. Their planning, advance work, etc., shows them to be ruthless, methodical, and very thorough.
Not much stopping them from taking a cargo plane, considering the lax security at many airports. Not much stopping them from buying a plane of their own..they are very well financed.
Does anyone really think we have heard the last of Al Queda in this country? Does anyone really think that they are not planning another hideous act? They do not care if they live or die, which gives them a tremendous tactical advantage.
We’ll stop “hearing” from al Qaeda when we shut-down Israel or Iran does it for us.
Here is a little history test for those who feel we must ban profiling so as not to offend anyone.
1.1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
a. Supermanb. Jay Lenoc. Harry Potterd. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbettb. Sitting Bullc. Arnold Schwarzeneggerd. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegiansb. Elvisc. A tour bus full of 80-year-old womend. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. During the 1980’s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillingerb. The King of Swedenc. The Boy Scoutsd. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boyb. Pee Wee Hermanc. Geraldo Riverad. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfsb. Davy Jonesc. The Little Mermaidd. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kiddb. Charles Lindbergc. Mother Teresad. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doob. The Tooth Fairyc. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kidd. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmonsb. Grandma Mosesc. Michael Jordand. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogersb. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill’s women problemsc. The World Wrestling Federationd. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fuddb. The Supreme Court of Floridac. Mr. Beand. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enronb. The Lutheran Churchc. The NFLd. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:a. Bonnie and Clydeb. Captain Kangarooc. Billy Grahamd. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
XXX laid out nicely what’s really happening. Those of us who have been paying attention from the beginning know the score.
The “war on terrorism” has been a legal device to invent new doctrines of law out of whole cloth, and to stretch old ones. And when law can’t be redefined out of existence, it’s simply ignored.
Should I state the obvious, Joe Williams? Paranoia is the entire basis of this administration. Be afraid; be very afraid! Let us do anything we want or the terrorists’ll git ya! That’s bull. This is a democracy.
Ray, if it wasn’t for good employees who didn’t appreciate being forced to go outside the law, we wouldn’t know about this in the first place.
And by the way: Remember “Otto,” who’s posted here a few times? I visited his website, and I know who he is. And, well, he’s someone wasn’t paranoid ENOUGH. Otherwise, he might have looked outside his apartment window, and found the FBI agent there taking pictures. This happened in Wichita. His “crime”? Daring to question the Reagan administration’s policies in Central America.
Brown says it well.”I would rather die standing than live on my knees.”Looks to me like conservatives and the Bush administration see it otherwise. The cowards would give up our rights and cringe in the corner hoping the newly-formed police state will protect them. If the Bush administration has it’s way, what’s the point? We have nothing left to fight for. Conservatives rant about how Liberals want a nanny state. Well what are they asking for? “Protect me, save me, damn the cost!”Granted, the terrorist threat isn’t over. But a police state won’t stop it. It hasn’t worked for Israel, and it won’t work for us.
Ray,That’s a typical attempt to change the subject. We’re not talking about profiling, we’re discussing spying on AMERICAN citizens. Knock it off with the smoke screen and stick with the issue at hand. Without question, our problem is mostly with Arab extremists. So how does that justify defying the clear intent of law and the Constitution?
Rage,Would you elaborate about “Otto”?
XXX,http://ottosdrugbookstore.blogspot.com/
XXX,Steve Otto was a local student organizer for CISPES (Committee In Solidarity with the People in El Salvador). This group really pissed off the Reagan people, so they started spying on the organizers.
This was in the mid-80s, but nobody knew until a few years later when the story broke. The Eagle ran a scathing editorial that featured a Crowson cartoon with two FBI agents carting off the WSU WuShock in handcuffs.
As usual, the liberal bandwagon is off and running before they even know the facts.
No one is charging the president with acting illegally. Bush said that members of Congress were kept informed. Let’s see if that is true. He said that he has the authority to order the spying. If that’s true, where did the authority come from? You might be surprised.
If you think our government can be completely transparent in this day and age and still adequately defend its people, you are kidding yourself. And defending its people is and should continue to be the federal government’s number one priority.
Take a chill pill and find out the facts. I know it’s tough when you really, really hate Bush. But I think that you are going to be surprised and probably disappointed at how this shakes out.
“Nearly a dozen current and former officials, who were granted anonymity because of the classified nature of the program, discussed it with reporters for The New York Times because of their concerns about the operation’s legality and oversight.
According to those officials and others, reservations about aspects of the program have also been expressed by Senator John D. Rockefeller IV, the West Virginia Democrat who is the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and a judge presiding over a secret court that oversees intelligence matters. Some of the questions about the agency’s new powers led the administration to temporarily suspend the operation last year and impose more restrictions, the officials said.”
That from the NY Times article. Seems there’s sufficient grounds for concern.
Zionist snipers killed 529 Palestinian children between 3 and 8 years of age with clean=through head shot according to hospital records.
List would would take-up too much of this blog space.
418 Palestinian villages were bulldozed by Zionist crushing 17,000 Palestinian homes, most in the wee hours of the morning while the Palestinian families were asleep.
List would would take-up too much of this blog space.
One million olive and orange tress, belonging to Palestinian farmers were bulldozed.
Rachel Curry was crushed by an Israeli Army bulldozer and her parents have been unable to get our State Department to do anything about her death.
Daily killing and humiliations and brutalizing are the order of the day in your degenerate little “country.”
More to come…..
Sometimes being argry has nothing to do with ones religion.
It has to do with at least trying to get even.
Outlander,
Members of Congress don’t issue search warrants; members of the Judiciary do. For Congressional representatives to have known about the Executive’s actions and to have done nothing, it seems to me, exposes them to charge of collusion and criminal conspiracy.
Thanks Rage, J.M..
XXX
We can’t solve this ongoing problem by fueling it.
The solution is in the other direction.
Making peace with the Arabs makes the entire problem go away.
We can go back to Sept 10 and that’s the smart thing to do.
The post above shows how frantic they are for keeping the hostility going.
You can’t put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it.
Excellent quiz, Ray. I enjoyed that.
Here’s one for you and your ilk.
1. Martin Luther King was shot by
A. Iranians.B. Hezbollah.C. Al Qaeda.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
2. The Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City was blown up by
A. anti-gov’t hippies.B. liberals.C. the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
3. Medgar Evers was shot on his front porch steps by
A. Al Qaeda.B. Al Franken.C. Al Gore.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
4. The man who set himself and scores of his followers on fire (including women and children) rather than simply submit to arrest by federal authorities was
A. a Japanese kamikaze.B. an international terrorist.C. Saddam Hussein.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
5. The man who dynamited a black church in Birmingham, Alabama and killed three children at Sunday school was
A. Palestinian.B. Iranian.C. Egyptian.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
6. The BTK serial-killer who terrorized Wichita for decades was
A. a Democrat.B. a wild-eyed anarchist.C. a peace protestor.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
7. The Wyoman who beat Matthew Shepard and hung him on a fence to die was
A. a tree-hugging backpacker.B. Fred Phelps.C. PETA activists.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
8. The policeman who repeatedly beat a drunken Rodney King with a nightstick fracturing his skull and leading to race riots was
A. Mohammed El Baradai.B. Howard Dean.C. John Kerry.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
9. The guard who tortured prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison was
A. a former Baathist.B. a communist.C. Islamic terrorist.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
10. The Texan who threw a rope around a man and dragged him to death behind his pickup truck simply because that man was black was
A. Al Qaeda.B. Al Sharpton.C. Algeria.D. an angry right-wing white man who considered himself a “patriot.”
I fully agree. It’s high time that our government quit fooling around with pot smokers and pimps and focus on the real threat to our country–angry right-wing white men who consider themselves “patriots.”
J.M., I thank you too. We don’t–and won’t–agree on everything, but I’ve never expected that from anyone.
I hope Ray eventually tires of playing footsey with monarchist jackasses and the religious right (I certainly know how he feels about the latter).
And for the record, I’m an “unaffiliated” voter.
P.S. Galahad, nice rejoinder.
Sorry, Ray, but I didn’t consider it worth the dignity of a response.
P.P.S. I hate to say this (I know there will be groans), but Ed is displaying his “insane brilliance” once again. ;-)
We need to look at why 9-11 happened–not to excuse it, as jerkwads continually accused anyone who even dared to ask–but to understand it.
CF: I don’t know about criminal charges because I don’t know that there has been any crime committed. But there is at least pretty blatant hypocrisy going on. Harry Reid admitted in an interview today with Chris Wallace that he had know about the program for “months”.
Poor Bush. He depends on his and NSA lawyers to know about the legality. He tells as few in congress as possible – only those with proper clearance and need to know. Obviously we must keep the number of potential leakers to a minimum. He tells as few in congress as possible – only those with proper clearance and need to know. Then POW. Some traitor leaks and another source of info is gone. It is just like when the media reported we were eavesdropping on Osaamas’ cell phone and it was gone.What I want is an investigation to find the leaks and then lock them up.Can’t win a war with so many traitors in our midst.
Rage,Right on, bro.
Rage, change the word “terrorist” to “angry-man” “terrorists to “angry-men” and “terrorism” to ” What angry men do”
Now as Bush speaks substitute each “terror” word with the new corresponding “word” and listen to the solution become so clear.
Now let’s start:
“The War on “what angry men do”
Outside “angry men” are helping them.
We must stop “angry men”
We must kill all of the “angry men”
The “angry men” will win!
We heard a lot of that tonight. . . again.
I’m really glad that Galahad has spoken on this topic. Now I know what I, and all others for that matter, should believe.
He is just so smart. How did I ever manage before I had someone as superior as he to guide me?
Bush’s speech: There is no progress. The election is meaningless. And does not lead to a democracy.
This was another ra, ra, ra speech. Nothing new. Bush:
If we are able to create the impossible, then we will be ready to leave.
More must be killed as to be fair to those who have died.
I know many of you can see through my shit.
If we don’t stay they will come to your house and kill your whole family.
Some say we are creating more angry men, but that’s only because of that G-d Friedemann.
Don’t listen to him.
It’s only a rumor that I have already received a truckload of purple fingers.
I have turned over many American bases in Iraq to Iraqis.
I have also given the State of Kansas to an Iraqi.
I said that the intelligence was bad, I didn’t say that I knew it was bad.
I told you that many more soldiers would be dying because Ariel Sharon told me to say that.
Don’t listen to that G-d Friedemann about making peace, as these angry men would rather make war.
And don’t listen to that G-d Friedemann about the Israelis being mean to the Palestinians, as the Israelis are really sweet to the Palestinians.
Ariel says he’ll bet his 100 bulldozers on that.
Peace is not a good thing.
Trust me.
Bush.
Outlander,
Typical Repubican response: if Reid releases what he knows, Wingnuts attack him for breaking secrecy; if he holds on to it, you accuse him of hypocrisy.
Steve,What a wet dick you are. Stop whining and start contributing.
Question–if NSA, CIA, FBI etc. knew Osama’s location thanks to his cell phone, why didn’t they drop a tomahawk missile on him?
I suspect that somebody who fought the Soviets for ten years (successfully) would have some understanding of how cell phones work, so the idea that a “media leaker” blew our best lead on tracking down Enemy Number One sounds a little far-fetched.
On edit, actually it was a sattelite phone . . .
Steven,You’re one of the more thoughtful contributors here, in my opinion. What exactly is your problem with Galahad? Sure, he’s flamboyant and opinionated, but that’s no crime.
72 hours people, he had 72 hours that the spying could be done before getting a court order. It is not about it took too long! It was not about there was no options for him to use. Everyone who was in Las-vagus for new years eve in 2004 had their credit cards track, if you rented a room the government knew, if you rented a car the government knew! If you made a phone call, or got on the net the government knew.1984,have you ever read it?
Sure if everyone is under a watchful eye then crime would go down. There would be no question whom is a terrorist and whom is not. If the general public knew just how easy it is to find yourself in a jail cell. There would not be enough sleep aids to knock you out. As I said everyone is a criminal! The majority just does not know it.
If Bush had no options that would have been one thing. Do you not see that? He went beyond being a war time President to a dictator in his quest for terrorist. He has spit on the American way and all it stands for. It was mentioned that the bad guys are laughing, yes they are when they see just how weak the ideals of this country are when we are scaired.
During this time we need a man of strength not a man who will throw out all this country has stood for.
Yet here we are, Bush has thrash canned the very principals that so many have fought and died for. It has been said that to pull out of Iraq now would mean that all our people died for nothing. I say by his actions G.W. Bush has made every one who sacrfic their lifes in every war since 1776. A question mark as to what they died for! Freedom must be defended, from all enemies of freedom both foreign and domestic.I have very little concern for the RIGHTS of the terrorist. But every concern for the RIGHTS of the people of this land. Yes there will be a time that extreme measure need to be taken. But to throw out the laws of the land only serves to destroy everything this country means not only to her people but the world.
I really hope the NSA isn’t reading my e-mail! I’d hate to be responsible for some poor analyst losing his mind from trying to figure them out!
Let’s see here, we’re talking about listening in on international calls between someone with known terrorist links and someone in the U.S. , maybe a US citizen, maybe not.
For some reason that just doesnt scare me.
Rage, I just thought I’d jump in and point out that the nasty troll Steve is a different person than the thoughtful contributor Steven E.
I am going to lose all of my faith in the American people and probably be sick to my stomach if we let the administration get away with this. You can go on and on about whether he SHOULD be able to listen to anyone and everyone’s private conversations…that’s another topic entirely.
But the fact is that he doesn’t have the power to do this, and yet he plunges on, thinking that his role as President is identical to that of a dictator. That’s not how America works. Presidents aren’t kings, they can’t decide not to follow a law, and openly defy it, just because they don’t feel like dealing with the technicalites.I can’t go out and steal CDs from Best Buy and get away with it just because I think all music should be free. I can’t try to bilk my insurance company out of hundreds of dollars because I think they make too much money off of people’s suffering.
The President can’t spit on the Constitution because he thinks it’s just a goddmaned piece of paper.
Thank you all, for noticing that I am a different person than Steve.
Steve has access to some conservative Republican Network that was involved with outting Mirecki’s emails to the listserv. This network is run by our old friend, Connie Duckett. When I try to get on the network, I get a message to the effect -”You are not authorized to access this site.”
To paraphrase Grocho Marx, “being rejected by some clubs makes one feel pretty good.”
I enjoy Galahad’s posts.
Apologies for the off-topic digression.
Oops–My humble apologies, Steven.
I should have known better.
P.S. XXX,Where is that damned scorecard, huh? ;-)
P.P.S. What’s worse is I now remember “Steve” from earlier. Aargh.
Long live ignorance – apparently. From the “Here is a little history test for those who feel we must ban profiling so as not to offend anyone.”, an objective review of the evidence and the history as it happened – not as the lying propaganda press claims – shows that most of the events listed, like 11. September 2001, where done by the US government, Department of Defense and CIA.
FACT: The DEMOLITION of the World Trade Center buildings AS EXPLAINED ON CNN GOES AGAINST SEVEN, YES, SEVEN LAWS OF PHYSICS. Thous; seven of the laws of physics apply all days except for 911 OR your own trusty government placed explosives throughout the building in advance and blamed it on “Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40″
Don’t take my word for it – or against it. Check out the facts! Please, please, do check out the facts. If you simply look into the overwhelming amounts of objective factual evidence then you will find that what I am telling you is the truth.
http://www.911eyewitness.com/http://torrentchannel.com/
And a wake up call, it is not only the media that is lying to you about 911. NSA, CIA and other government agencies are actively posting disinformation and trying to ridicule anyone exposing the truth in forums, blog comments and other places were the general population can communicate.THAT is why they need massive surveillance: So they can find out who is presenting evidence that goes against what they would have people believe and to stop them from doing so. They are not fighting terrorist, they are fighting citizens. ANYONE who tries to show you the evidence that documents the TRUTH of what happened 911 – and regarding other events where your trusty government is deliberately lying – is now considered a terrorist by your trusty government and must, according to policy, be discredited and ridiculed.
The truth can set you free, but first it will most likely piss you off….