Vice President Dick Cheney is conducting a phony war against critics, Michael Kinsley argues in his latest column. But Kinsley also notes this change among some war critics:
“Until last week, the antiwar position in the debate over Iraq closely resembled the pro-war position in the ancient debate over Vietnam. That is: It was a mistake to get in, but now that we’re in we can’t just cut and run. That was the logic on which Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger took over the Vietnam War four years after major American involvement began and kept it going for another four. American ‘credibility’ depended on our keeping our word, however foolish that word might have been. In the end, all the United States wanted was a ‘decent interval’ between our departure and the North Vietnamese triumph — and we didn’t even get that. Thousands of Americans died in Vietnam after America’s citizens and government were in general agreement that the war was a mistake.
“We are now very close to that point of general agreement in the Iraq war. Do you believe that if Bush, Cheney and company could turn back the clock, they would do this again? And now, thanks to Rep. John Murtha, it is permissible to say, or at least to ask, ‘Why not just get out now? Or at least soon, on a fixed schedule?’ ”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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30 Comments
Not one more soldier should die or be wounded. Stop the bombing and cease all hostility immediately. Withdraw troops to the periphery and start bringing soldiers home right now. It was senseless to begin this crusade for Israel in the first place { the world seems to know what we seem to timid to acknowledge }. All those involved in the planning and execution of this murdering spree should be brought to justice and held accountable. We need a prosecutor who knows how and can prosecute a case for Treason.
One thing: Before we bring the troops home, we need to demand that Israel get back across the “green-line” knock down that land grabbing “wall” and we need to form a Palestinian State with East Jerusalem as its Capitol, whether they like it or not.
That act, along with confiscating Israel’s nuclear weapons, will restore our status in the world and the Middle East and our relationship with the Arabs.
Yes, if they knew everything they did now, I believe they would do it all again.This war was personal for them and with that kind of emotion making your decisions reality and logic just don’t come in to play.
What can a leader be thinking when he plots to bomb an ally’s country because they have al-jazeera’s headquarters there. Yes, I know, the memo hasn’t been printed in UK and will never be printed in the US because the administration has too strong of a hold over the media. It doesnt’ change the fact if there wasnt’ truth to the memo/leaks that there wouldnt’ be a need to hide it.How are we different than Saddam? The white phosphorous and new napalm MK7 shows we are willing to use chemical weapons just like we protested Saddam using the white phosphorous in 1991.We torture in private hidden jails prisoners and hold them indefinitely without any representation just because “we” say they are enemy combatants. (after all we are never wrong)
This war was based on lies.
General Murtha is well respected and it’s time that the intelligent ones stand up and say what a majority of Americans are thinking.
Well said, Sum1. We’ve gone from being the example of freedom to the rest of the world to being the biggest hypocrite. The administraton isn’t fooling anyone by just by putting a different spin on the atrocities that are being commited.
Murtha would make a good president. He’s smart, compassionate and has the guts to stand-up for the right things.
The exact opposite of Bush.
Absence of proof (such as not finding WMDs)is not proof of lies. The left and the right have been known to lie. How do any of us know which side is wrong since we obviously have no direct knowledge either. Logic perhaps?Then it is logical that the existance of a training ground for terrorists including a 727 body in Iraq says something about Saadams’ role in 9-11. Proof? No, but it wasn’t there as an Arab disneyland.
codie, a 727 body and a training ground in Iraq? That’s the first I’ve heard of that. Got any links to back that up?
So, Frank, Murtha proposes a phased pull-out from Iraq, and he’s denounced by the Wingnuts as the next Michael Moore.
Two weeks later, Condoleeza Rice floats the same idea, and is an odds-on favorite for the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination.
Nice work, Republicans. You don’t let little things like honesty, integrity, or consistency stand between you and hegemony. No one can accuse you of not thinking big. As in, “The Big Lie.”
Who was the last American soldier killed in Vietnam? I wonder if we’ll remember the last American soldier to die in Iraq any better.
XXXJust google ’salman pak terrorist training’. There are many links, Satalite pictures etc.I just assumed it was common knowledge.
Codie, you said “Absence of proof (such as not finding WMDs)is not proof of lies.”
What about the lie of the connection between AlQueda and Saddam, a lie that our own intelligence agencies exposed as a lie near the beginning of the war?Even while having proof that there was no connection Cheney still refers to the link between Al-Queda and Saddam.
Should it make me feel better that will all the facts before him, he still refuses to see it as a lie?
On the contrary it scares the crap out of me to wonder what madmen are running our country. This war was personal for Cheney. The rational behind it was false and wrong.
The White House { Karl Rove } is trying to get out in front of pulling troops out of Iraq by saying: ” that a blueprint advocated last week by a Democratic senator was “remarkably similar” to its own.”They never stop lying, now do they?
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9BDFE794-8F5E-45B3-8656-02F9B47DE850.htm
Codie,
Conspiracy theories all have things in common. They deal by innuendo, supposition, half-truths, and conclusions based on guesswork. Their point has already been drawn while they tailor “facts” to justify their foreordain result. They present their argument as “proof” when in fact, the facts don’t add-up.
Some writers are skillful offering some people just what they want to hear. That falls away short of making it so.
Be careful what you read.
Codie, thanks for jogging my memory. I’d forgotten that little gem because it was discredited so long ago. Funny, if there were any truth to conservative claims (Rush O’Rilley), you’d think the administration would be shouting about it from the roof tops. Why do you suppose Bush & Co. are so quiet about it?
SUM1
This is a fact. None of us knows how to spell Al-Qaeda. Not you, me, The NYT, nobody.
Gasp! Nobody knows how to spell Al-Qaeda? How will they ever get their summons for jury duty?
That’s kind of like Kadaffe of Libya. Nobody knows how to spell his name, either (including me).
Alright, that’s it, we’ve got to get ourselves an Arab.
Ackmed, where are you { Jay Leno }
Got an idea for Nike.
An Osama Bin Laden Sneekers: “Nobody can catch you wearing these.”
I don’t like constantly comparing the Iraq War to Viet Nam because it confuses the issues. Obviously they are not the same.
Regarding mistakes on Iraq, they started back in 1990 before the first Desert Storm shots were fired. Its public knowledge that mixed signals were given to Saddam Hussein in 1990 by blundering U.S. diplomats, who perhaps received blundering messages from then President Bush senior. This needs more study but Saddam Hussein might have been on the right track in those days considering where the perpetrators of “9-11″ actually came from. This string of events is much more complicated than the average person can fathom.
I remember saying in 1989 to my daily coffee group, about the time that Desert Sand started, that U.S. should have brought Saddam Hussein to the United States for an extended orientation session to blend his desert-learned leadership style with the democratic system of America.
I have no proof. But it still bothers me how convenient 9/11 was for PNAC. And the skill it takes to fly a jet.
Ed, how could I be Arab? Falcone is obviously an Irish name. At least that’s what Cousin Vinnie says.
To fly a Jet, 500 mph, and hit something 200 feet wide is something you or I would completely miss, time after time.
They hit dead center.
I don’t know, just put on a towel and we’ll see.
We’ll get Codie to torture you until you tell us how to spell.
Ed, you’re scaring me. Step away from the Fritos.
They’re mine,They’re mine,They’re mine,They’re mine,They’re mine,They’re mine,They’re mine,
Jury duty?
Why should they get off easy? What’s the difference? Nobody in Sedgwick county shows up for jury duty, either.
Dude take the soldiers out of i raq and get some jets and blow the whole country up