The No Child Left Behind law relies on testing to measure students’ progress. But this New York Times article points out that there are often large discrepancies between the results of the federal and state mandated tests. Take, for instance, Florida. On the federal test in 2005, 30 percent of the state’s fourth-graders were proficient in reading. But on the Florida state test, 71 percent of fourth-graders were proficient in reading in 2005. Big difference. And that’s not unusual, the article said.
Kim Karesh, spokeswoman for the Tennessee Education Department — which has also seen big differences in its state and federal results — brings up a key point: “In education these days, we talk numbers until we’re blue in the face. But there’s a bigger philosophical question: ‘Can you really boil it down to a number?’”
Posted by Melissa Cooley
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16 Comments
That entirely depends on the questions used in the test. If the Florida test asks a student to spell “bird”, probably seventy percent will get it correct. If the federal test asks the same students to spell a word meaning a winged animal that flies, than thirty percent is probably correct.So are the Florida tests catered to the dumbing down of students we’ve seen and heard so much about? That would be the issue I would be investigating.
It is a shame that ALL students in Kansas are being left behind by an incompetent board of education.
Gooberment edumacashon. . .
Agreed, Ray. Absolutely, yes.
If a moderate conservative like you and flaming liberal like me can agree on that, why are these people still in office?
‘Can you really boil it down to a number?’
Yes. If they can define how much an ‘adequate education’ costs then it’s obviously possible to measure education.
Good question Galahad. While I don’t have all the answers, my guess is it is at least partially due to the ability of the extreme right to get out voters. They get churches together on a ‘crusade’ and get out the vote.
Crossing the boundary of church/state separation doesn’t seem to bother these rabid extremists.
What I don’t think they see is that separation of church and state also protects them. After all, would the Baptists like it if a state sponsored church, Episcopalian, was established here like in England? Then, after establishing a state church, it is a simple matter to banish all others. The rabid right just doesn’t seem to catch on to that concept…and continually batter at the separation.
I truly think that any church advocating any type of specific political action or endorsing any particular candidate needs to lose its tax exempt status and be treated like the PAC it is.
If NCLB big failing is that there is to much focus on producing test performance…..What do you people think the real world is about? I know people like melissa never has to produce much of anything besides liberal hadwringing and some of have to produce proof that you looked for a job today…..But, the reality is that performance and your ability to demonstrate that is what you do in the realworld. Shoot, even if you are working drive through at Mcdonalds you are not tracked on order acuracy but you ARE tracked by your avg time at the window.
Sounds to me that these tenured teachers are just whining that they actually have to prove that they are doing thier jobs
Here I saw this today, thought of my favorite hadwringing liberal
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.
One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.
He responded by asking her how she was doing in school. Taken aback, she answered, rather haughtily, that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying. This left her little time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn’t even have time for a boyfriend,and didn’t have many college friends because she spent most of her time studying.
Her father listened and then asked, “How is your friend Audrey doing?”She replied, “Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she seldom studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus, that college for her is a blast.She’s always invited to all the parties, and many times she doesn’t show up for classes because she’s too hung over.”
Her wise father asked his daughter, “Why don’t you go to the Dean’s office and ask her to deduc t 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to your friend Audrey who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.”
The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion, angrily fired back, “That wouldn’t be fair! I have worked hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time and hard work to get my 4.0! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She has played while I’ve worked my tail off!”
The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”
I guess since Melissa clearly isn’t a republican we know who she is in this story…..lol
Sadly, it’s a case of garbage in, garbage out.
Performance on standardized tests is hardly a test of that unquantifiable thing called an education. Education means being able to take what you know and create something completely different with it.
Students, even in college courses where they are getting A’s, have usually only mastered the mechanics of doing what someone else has already done. That’s important, don’t get me wrong. But what we should be really interested in is trying to make sure students are so well-versed in the basics ASAP that they can concentrate on doing some original thinking. Making change at McDonald’s is an important activity, no doubt, but it doesn’t require an education as I understand the term. The making of change is a job that pays for you to get by and maybe do some original thinking in your spare time.
Few jobs statistically in the US require one’s education to be that good. Many simply involve day in day out repetition. If you can count money, read, and balance a checkbook you can probably learn what an employer requires and do OK. For most, work is NOT the place where you need or use your education. Ask that young Swiss patent clerk at the beginning of the last century who did so poorly in grammar school.
dr–
A beautiful example of both a false analogy and a straw man.
The straw man part is that liberals don’t believe in “re-distribution of wealth” with the implication that we just take money from one group and give it to another. Was it a re-distribution of wealth to keep people alive after Katrina hit the coast? In a very technical sense it was, because tax dollars were taken from me and you to help hurricane victims (not me and you).
But they had also paid taxes for many years. And I would want help if I were in the same situation.
So, it’s “wealth distribution” only in the sense that insurance is wealth distribution.
Similarly, I pay taxes. Some of those taxes are used to build highways. I benefit from that. Some people never drive and don’t benefit so much. Other people, like travelling salespeople, use the highways a lot and benefit more.
Is highway building “wealth re-distribution?” Again, in a technical sense the answer is yes. But more importantly is an improvement for the general good. Almost the entire society benefits from it, some more than others.
Similarly, if a government program takes money from taxpayers and provides free tuition to impoverished students, this will benefit not just the students, but society in general, because those students will be more productive (as a group), will make more money, and pay more taxes.
A college education is a contract an individual student makes to learn material or processes from an instructor for which the individual is awarded a grade which reflects the degree of learning achieved.
Paying taxes is part of a contract we make with ourselves (representative government) to enact public works and other business for the common welfare.
The two situations are not at all comparable.
Are you kidding? The proof is that liberals always quantify who they are currently helping but have no clue how many people don’t need help anymore! And certainly don’t evaluate thier approach by contrasting the two groups!
NCLB is really no diffrent, though I do believe that congress should NEVER pass a single piece of legislation without the funding required to enforce it. and NCLB provided no additional funding BUT …..NCLB simply laid out the sort of expectations every school district in america SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN DOING!
Continous Quality Improvement and a means to measure current productivity or achievement and be able to compare to past record. Thats it! Sound familiar? Probably not if you dont have to work a real job.
Galahad, isn’t it the motor fuel tax that pays for the majority of our highways, thereby requiring those who use the resource most heavily to pay a larger share of its cost?
Wilson, I don’t know for absolutely sure, but I don’t think so. Towns have to think long and hard about building new highways, which they wouldn’t if the money was available.
DR, if business has to constantly measure and control quality, why do CEO’s get raises when their companies lose market share, jobs, and profits? The Dow is still off 5 percent since Bush took office and CEO pay is way, way up.
Absolutely no relation to pay and job performance.
GM and Ford send their work to Mexico for cheap labor, and the Japanese send their work to Princeton, Indiana. Tell me again how great the mighty world of business is?
I don’t care what CEO’s make, There is NO corelation between my ability to earn income and thier income. I dont invest in those companies and neither do an increasing number of people and fund managers
But back to the topic here….Similarly the failing schools get the most money in our system right? Just like the CEO huh ;) When the fundemental problem is not money or NCLB….It is that parents do not get involved with thier kids education
Why are you suprised….
When you cant help your kid in algebra, because you don’t know 9th grade level math
When you never bothered to read to your kid
When your kid doesn’t want to read because they never see you read
Kids see through BS, it starts with parents being performance based. “the ability to think” IS WORTHLESS if you dont PRODUCE SOMETHING with it. I am NOT impressed when people who can think of problems, I am impressed and so is the world when people can ENACT solutions. If you cant pass the test you are just another worthless thinker and not a valuable doer!
You can look it up, Galahad. About two-thirds of the money Kansas raises for the state highway fund comes from the fuel tax and vehicle registration fees.
Also, diesel fuel sold for agricultural use doesn’t pay the same motor fuel tax, in recognition that it won’t be used on the roads and highways.
Also, for streets in most cities, the homeowners or business owners pay for the construction of them through special assessment taxes.