Despite Friday’s strawman vote in the House about immediately withdrawing troops from Iraq, there is a growing bipartisan movement in Congress to pressure the Bush White House to provide a credible exit strategy. It looks like a turning point in congressional and public attitudes toward the war.
The Senate voted last week for the White House to provide a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq as well as quarterly progress reports on the war. Congress as an institution is “rearing up and asserting itself,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.
Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., (in photo) a decorated veteran of two wars and one of Congress’ most hawkish Democrats, Thursday called for the withdrawal of U.S. troops, saying that the Iraq war was a “flawed policy wrapped in illusion.”
Predictably, Bush defenders quickly attacked Murtha, painting the widely respected defense expert with a Michael Moore anti-war brush. But for White House officials, attacking the messengers is a losing battle. They need to provide a plan that will produce stability in Iraq, and show the way home for our troops.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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39 Comments
The House ‘leadership’ can throw hissy fits as often as it likes. Jean Schmidt can try to kill the messenger by attacking Frank Murtha, and discredit herself to her heart’s content. It doesn’t matter. The GOP and the President have lost the American public’s support for this dishonest and disastrous war. The only questions about withdrawal from Iraq are when and how, not if. And the sooner we’re able to begin answering those questions, the better off we’ll be, and the better off folks in Iraq will be.
We should adopt Rep Murtha’s plan for a phased withdrawal.
New York Times:
QUOTATION OF THE DAY
“We will stay in the fight until we have achieved the victory that our brave troops have fought for.”PRESIDENT BUSH
Translation: “We will never leave. When those soldiers there now die, or are blown apart, we will simply keep sending more an more until Israel rules the Middle East. Watch how many soldiers I kill in the next three years. I’m on a roll, like it or not.”
We now know that this administration had access to info disputing every reason they used to go to war.The military and the State Dept both had detailedplans(based on experience)on what it would take to maintain peace and stability in Iraq. The manpower involved would have required a draft, and without chaos we would not have an excuse to stay and keep mid east oil on the dollar, as opposed to changing to the Euro. We have started, continuing, and unless we withdraw, we will finish the destructiion of Iraq. Staying the course is cruel and sadistic.
Thank God for the those in the United States Congress that stand up and question our policies in Iraq. It should be job one, to end this disaster.
Job two and three, should be fixing the lack of health care in this country and keeping large businesses like oil, gas and pharmaceuticals from taking us all to the cleaners!
Remember when government used to do that?
What I saw on Friday was a bunch of Democrats being hypocrites.
Three Democrats, Jose Serrano of New York, Robert Wexler of Florida and Cynthia McKinney of Georgia, voted for withdrawal.
Six didn’t vote at all, they are Jim McDermott of Washington; Jerrold Nadler, Maurice Hinchey and Major Owens of New York; Michael Capuano of Massachusetts and William Lacy Clay of Missouri.
The rest voted to keep the troops and Iraq and hence, voted for Freedom. Democrats were talking a big talk, but they were pandering to their extreme leftist base, but when it comes down to a vote, they couldn’t vote for the withdrawl.
New York Times:
QUOTATION OF THE DAY
“We will stay in the fight until we have achieved the victory that our brave troops have fought for.”PRESIDENT BUSH
Translation: “We will never leave. When those soldiers there now die, or are blown apart, we will simply keep sending more an more until Israel rules the Middle East. Watch how many soldiers I kill in the next three years. I’m on a roll, Pat Robertson and Ariel Sharon told me so, so whether you like it or not, I’m going to continue killing your sons and daughters, why not, they’re not my daughters.” What you peons don’t seem to understand is that of course I lied to you, you were born to be lied to. I got us into this war and gave you jerks every cockamamie story we New World Order neoconservatives could think of. Ha. ha, ha, ha. You fools are just now figuring that out? Well tough luck. You’re too late. Now get to work and make us some more “bullet money” and “party money” for my friends in Israel. We have Arabs to kill, and land to conquer and you think that you are the “military-wing of Israel now, well just wait and see that become official in three years. We own you. Get it now you dummies?”
As usual, Joe, you don’t have a clue what was going on or what that vote was even about. Do you bother to watch C-Span or anything besides fright-wing programs?
RD,I watched some of the vote and Joe is correct: For all the postulating about the war in Iraq, when the vote was called, only three Democrats had the huevos to vote for bringing the troops home.
Think it has something to do with constituency and getting re-elected? If the Democrats were sincere in their blasts against Bush and his policies, then was the prefect time to show their resolve. They failed miserably.
Ah, Walker, I see that you’ve managed to memorize the official Talking Point! Good for you!
The Republican resolution was only one sentence long, calling for an “immediate” withdrawal, no details. As in “about face, and bug out!” Naturally, nearly everyone, including the sponsors, voted against it, so but what? A less-than-scrupulous campaign manager will have some serious fun with that one next year.
I would guess the three Democrats could not bring themselves to vote no on any resolution opposing the war. Those who voted “present” actually sent a clear message: “I oppose the war, but I’m not voting for this stupid resolution.”
As stated above, Murtha is advocating a phased withdrawal, in six months, with some troops remaining in the region, and a fair degree of flexibility. No wonder the House Repubs resorted to this cheap stunt. They’re scared. Murtha’s position is pretty close to what the polls are saying.
RD! Actually you seemed to be without a clue. Just admit that you been pwn3d!
I thought it was great what the Republicans did on Friday. Yes! It was a stunt, but at least it stirred the pot on the floor of the House, instead of parroting leftist talking points in front of the media.
Rage! Phase withdrawl will not happen. There is no such thing as time limit in war. There is already a clear distinct plan for bringing troops home, as soon as they accomplish the task at hand. Which is that Iraq is stable enough to protect itself and that sufficient Iraqi troop numbers are trained. That should happen in the next year or two.
Other than complete withdrawl? Not going to happen. We will be in Iraq forever. A permanant base will be established and more than 10,000 troops will be on hand forever to come. Even if Hillary wins in 2008. She is not going to pull every single troop home.
Ah, RD, I see you have parroted the liberal line for so long, you have forgotten what that line stands for. As I said, no huevos, just talk.
If the liberals were to grow a backbone and do what’s right, we might be able to get out of Iraq and Afganistan. As it is, your rhetoric reminds me of the coocoo popping out of the clock every hour: The same thing over and over again until nobody listens.
When the Iraqis wake-up in the morning, we should not be there, and the bombing all night should have stopped.
There is no excuse for what America has done to this people, and with us gone, they will work-out their problems.
There is no end in sight if we stay nor could there ever be one.
The strawman vote in congress is proof how far AIPAC has its fingers and pay-offs dug into America politics. They need to loss their status as a lobby and be classified as an agent of a foreign power.
Americans need to run America, not allow it to be run by Israel.
It really hard to decide which of the Eagle bloggers are brave Al-Quida troops and which are really local useful idiots. Both bige great aid and comfort to those killing US.
Listen to J M Walker, Joe Williams, and Joe C. following orders. What a threesome of suckholes you are. You’re like Adolph Eichmann without the ability to keep the trains running on time.
Friday’s vote was an attempt by Fat Bastard (i.e. Draft Dodgin’ Dodger Hastert) to misrepresent Murtha’s proposal as an ‘all or nothing,’ immediate call for withdrawal. Murtha’s proposal was nothing of the sort. For Republicans to pretend that their proposal was the same as Murtha’s, and that voting for the two of them means the same thing, is a lie. Plain and simple.
For J M Walker and Joe Williams to pretend otherwise is dishonest. Deliberately evading the background debate makes liars of you both.
That’s right: LIARS. I called you party hacks, LIARS. What are you going to do about it? Neither one of you has any balls, backbone, or integrity. And Joe C. lacks the mental acuity to do anything more than throw things on command.
As far as f****ng up Afghanistan, it seems to me that the buck ought to stop with the Commander-in-Chief who drew away crucial resources from a war of necessity in order to begin a war of choice in Iraq.
The only people here lacking ‘backbone’ are otherwise principled Republicans who ought to be exercising some adult influence over their rampaging, out-of-control ‘leadership.’ John McCain, Chuck Hagel, John Warner–all MIA.
Oh, by the way, here’s a list of warmongering, draft-dodging, chicken-hawk Republicans. No balls, no backbone.
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
UnAmerican. The lot of you.
Uh-oh…
Republican lawmakers say that ties between Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) and his brother’s lobbying firm, KSA Consulting, may warrant investigation by the House ethics committee…
According to a June 13 article in The Los Angeles Times, the fiscal 2005 defense appropriations bill included more than $20 million in funding for at least 10 companies for whom KSA lobbied. Carmen Scialabba, a longtime Murtha aide, works at KSA as well.
KSA directly lobbied Murtha’s office on behalf of seven companies, and a Murtha aide told a defense contractor that it should retain KSA to represent it, according to the LA Times.
In early 2004, Murtha reportedly leaned on U.S. Navy officials to sign a contract to transfer the Hunters Point Shipyard to the city of San Francisco, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. A company called Lennar Inc. had right to the land, and Laurence Pelosi, nephew to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was an executive with the firm at that time.
Murtha also inserted earmarks in defense bills that steered millions of dollars in federal research funds toward companies owned by children of fellow Pennsylvania Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D). ..
Joe, methinks you doth protest too much.
JM, you watched SOME of the vote? I watched the debate and vote twice. Again, Joe is clueless and you’re holding his hand.
Thanks, CF. You said what I didn’t get back to say.
They can’t kill us if we’re not there.
Actually,I’m for a phased withdrawal.
Phase 1. Leave.
Phase 2. Stay gone.
CF is not a useful idiot
RD. Your Engish is excellent.
In the long term, the joke is on the republicans. The American people have turned against Bush’s War and nothing the president, the republicans in Congress, or their lackeys say or do is going to change that. Now every dead soldier will be attributed to the republicans. When this is all over and the dust settles, republicans are going to have a lot of hard questions to answer.
The sad part is, Democrats didn’t look too good Friday night, either. What a pack of cowards.
Bush is doing Israel’s bidding. He has been duped.
The so-called “war” in Iraq does not serve any American purpose. Bush’s reasoning is silly.
It had to be schemed into existence. It could not stand on its own merit.
Our soldiers need to be withdrawn immediately from this nonsensical venture.
The longer we stall withdrawing our troops, the more will be killed.
In order to minimize deaths, the withdrawal should take no longer than the deployment.
Enough is enough.
Its over.
The New York Times: “U.S. and coalition forces took extraordinary measures to prevent civilian casualties in Falluja.” The NYT can’t even spell the “Fallujha” Massacre correctly. American forces use of white phosphorus was designed to burn the flesh off the civilians and they have the nerve to describe that as ” extraordinary measures to prevent civilian casualties ” They murdered over 100,000 people who failed to flee after being cut-off from escape by American forces.
And they want to try Saddam? Hang Bush, let Saddam go free.
Rock and Roll
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10907.htm
Joe C, I hope my English is at least passable. I’m a writer.
Now back to the subject at hand. The resolution presented by House Republicans on Friday was a garbled, empty attempt at Murtha’s plan and nothing more than a “cut and run” (yes, there’s that catch-phrase) that we all know would do more damage than good for Iraq and for the U.S. than anyone wants to see. This kind of pull ‘em out and bring ‘em home plan with no forethought and solid planning would be a disaster, even though in our hearts many of us would love to see our sons and daughters home safely. There have been far too many lives lost, both U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians. Truthfully, the resolution presented in the house was nothing more than a cheap political ploy. It neither failed nor succeeded in any way for any one. It was probably unfair to say you guys don’t have a clue, but, hey, fun isn’t always fair, and it got your attention.
The Pentagon announced a drawdown plan to begin after the Iraqi election in December. I expect GW may announce something about this during his State of the Union message in January, if it doesn’t change. Perfect timing for him and the party. As I hunted again for the article I read on Saturday, I ran across a similar article from July of this year. The more recent article mentioned an initial small withdrawal of troops, with the bulk taking place over five years, and a large contingency of troops left there, well, pretty much indefinitely. Certainly not timely, and certainly not saving many lives. I couldn’t find that recent article, but I did find the one from July. If anyone would like to read it, it’shttp://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-11-troops-iraq_x.htm
I also urge everyone to listen to Murtha’s Sept. 17 news conference (at C-Span) on the U.S. policy in Iraq, so you know where he’s coming from. Keep in mind that Murtha has supported Bush in the past, but he has also been quite active in questioning military leaders and visiting injured troops in Walter Reed. He is passionate and he is plain-spoken about this. Nothing he says is confusing or convoluted in any way.Here’s the link to the article: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-11-troops-iraq_x.htmHere’s the link that will take you to the taped news conference: http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp?Cat=Current_Event&Code=Iraq&ShowVidNum=30&Rot_Cat_CD=US_Iraq&Rot_HT=&Rot_WD=&ShowVidDays=365&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30
It’s time to put a stop to this quagmire and allow the Iraqi’s to defend themselves. We’ve had nearly 2 ½ years to train them. Let them do their job, and bring our troops home, where they belong, in a timely and organized manner.
I’d be interested to hear comments on an incident during the debate of the troop withdrawal resolution.
This is from CNN:**At one point in the emotional debate, Rep. Jean Schmidt, R-Ohio, told of a phone call she received from a Marine colonel.
“He asked me to send Congress a message — stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message — that cowards cut and run, Marines never do,” Schmidt said. Murtha is a 37-year Marine veteran.**
By the way, that Marine colonel is a member of the Reserves and has never seen active duty. He’s also a lobbyist for the fright-wing.
Well, by all means, let’s get old blood and guts out on patrol in Fallujah.
Keep his ass over there until terrorism is “defeated.”
See how long he sticks to the “never cut and run” line.
Germany: CIA knew ‘Curveball’ was not trustworthy
German intelligence alleges Bush administration repeatedly ‘exaggerated’ informant’s claims in run-up to war.
By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com
Five top German intelligence officers say that the Bush administration and the CIA repeatedly ignored warnings about the veracity of the information that an Iraqi informant named ‘Curveball’ was giving about Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. The Los Angeles Times, in a massive report published Sunday, reports that “the Bush administration and the CIA repeatedly exaggerated his claims during the run-up to the war in Iraq.” They also say that ‘Curveball,’ whom the Germans described as “not a psychologically stable guy,” never claimed that he had produced germ weapons, nor had he ever seen anyone do it.According to the Germans, President Bush mischaracterized Curveball’s information when he warned before the war that Iraq had at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons. Then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell also misstated Curveball’s accounts in his prewar presentation to the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003, the Germans said.http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1121/dailyUpdate.html
Why not tell us the real reason, Bush?
Oh, I don’t think Bechtel and Halliburton would like that at all!
I was just curious: those of you who insist we’ll be in Iraq forever (and we might be, no matter what we attempt to do–thanks, W.!), what’s your grand plan for something resembling sanity and stability? Or is the Explosion of the Day ad infinitum perfectly okay with you?
Rage, What would you do if we were being occupied by people who killed your children, wife or friends, all the while dropping bombs night after night?
I know what I’d do.
Any “plan” to stay is a plan for them to keep killing our soldiers.
These people are defending their country.
So, why are we really staying?
Afraid to say it?
With 212,000 trained troops in the ARI (according to Rumsfield) why not put them in the field to replace our troops. Isn’t 212,000 troops enough? Give them air and logistics support if necessary but let them do the fighting.
Unless of course, the 212,000 figure is another lie.
I was once told that the christian fundamentalists want to precipitate the Armageddon and the Second Coming by shipping all the Jews to Israel to be converted. No wonder they try so hard trying to support Israel, the country, at all cost. Can anyone elaborate?
Roo, I read where the fundamentalists are contributing a lot of money to have the Temple rebuilt. That’s got to happen before they can bring on the end times.
Bringing us back to the original subject, here is the Republican (Hunter, I believe the Rep’s name is) resolution that was voted on Friday.
“Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately.”
Here is Murtha’s plan from his resolution which was not presented and voted on:
“1) Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in2) Congress assembled,3) That:4) Section 1. The deployment of United States forces in Iraq, by direction of Congress, is5) hereby terminated and the forces involved are to be redeployed at the earliest practicable6) date.7) Section 2. A quick-reaction U.S. force and an over-the-horizon presence of U.S Marines8) shall be deployed in the region.9) Section 3 The United States of America shall pursue security and stability in Iraq10) through diplomacy.”
I have Murtha’s full resolution, but since it’s rather long, I’m not posting it unless someone wants to see it.
For those who can’t see the difference, please take a reading/comprehension class.
Ed, I didn’t say I liked it. But an instant mobilization of 158,000 troops would likely be as chaotic as, well. . . .more chaotic then. . .
You have a point.
P.S. If I didn’t answer your question, it’s because you got me to thinking. This is a good thing.
My natural reaction was that if we “have” to jump back in to. . .do what? F**k things up some more? Lose a few more hundred soliders, along with numerous Iraqis? Maybe torture some more detainees? Perhaps I had forgotten for a moment what a completely f**ked up, corrupt, venal, unfixable scam this has been from the very beginning, and it will continue to be so long as the military-industrial complex controls our priorities.