Incoming — more reactions to the Kansas State Board of Education’s science standards vote. Of the board’s opening of the door to the teaching of supernatural explanations, the Berkshire (Mass.) Eagle editorialized: “What’s next? Werewolves and vampires being discussed in the same class as mammals and amphibians? Are witch trials far behind? Can psychics testify in court?”
And Richard Doak, a columnist for the Des Moines Register, saw in Kansas’ misfortune a call to action for his state: “While Kansas is adopting school standards that make the state a laughingstock among scientists, Iowa should adopt an official state goal of making Iowa schoolkids the most scientifically literate in the nation.” Of course, Kansas could set the same goal for its schoolkids, but given the past week’s headlines over the science standards, would sky-high test scores down the road even register on the national consciousness?
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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23 Comments
We’ve kicked this dead horse over and over and you want us to kick it again?Ok, don’t mix science with creationism.There, horse duly kicked and it still ain’t gettin’ up.
I find myself imagining the Eagle Editorial Board, with great trepidation, running the daily computer search to see what publications might have written about the Kansas evolution issue. Then, the awful pain of being crushed, when someone from, say the Berkshire (Mass) Eagle, or the San Francisco Chronicle, takes the opportunity to take a shot at Kansas. Oh what to do, what to do?
Don’t worry Eagle folks, the conservative bloggers are here for you! Here’s how to respond. You just tell them:
In Kansas, we don’t fear new ideas. We are critical-minded enough to realize that a theory is a theory. Our students can think for themselves.
Our students are still being taught about the theory of evolution. What’s your problem?
In Kansas, we don’t all worship at the altar of Darwin. Since it takes a lot of faith to believe that scientists today can determine that we humans started from a puddle of goo several billion years ago, forgive us if we are a bit skeptical.
Finally, if those don’t work, tell them: “You guys are just journalists. What do you know?”
Ok, there you have it Eagle folks. Good luck and keep your chin up!
Right you are, Dud.
The Holocaust? Just a theory, there’s no real proof except for all the evidence like the eye-witnesses and the filming and the records.
Man on the Moon? A government hoax. Just look at all the websites devoted to de-bunking it.
The Vietnam War? Liberals lost it for us. The first ten years and 58,000 deaths were just a warm-up. If we had just fought on for another couple of weeks, it would have all turned around for us.
Smoking causes lung cancer? Just a theory. How do we know all those people wouldn’t have gotten cancer anyway? Or maybe smoking PROTECTED THEM from some other disease. Anybody ever think of that?
The earth is round? Oh, sure, they’ve got photographs, but what does that really PROVE? Photographs can be doctored, you know. Besides think of all the scientists that have a VESTED INTEREST in a round earth. Their gov’t funding would dry up if the truth were told.
Yup, Dud, you’re exactly right. Let’s “teach the controversy” on EVERY issue, because after all, we don’t fear critical thinking, do we?
And we sure wouldn’t open ourselves up to any perfectly justifiable criticism if we did either.
Apples and oranges Galahad. On second thought, apples and battleships or something.
And btw, Dud, if you don’t like the idea of human life emerging from a “puddle of goo,” you might reconsider the human male’s contribution to reproduction of the species.
It’s really icky, but, hey, that’s the way nature works, my friend.
Complain to God if you don’t like it, but let science teach what it considers the truth.
Way to show us an excellent example of “critical thinking”, Dud. And you’re right! Here in Kansas, we believe in standing alone on our own two feet. Everybody else in the world thinks we’re a bunch of bumkins? The hell with them! Kids from Kansas won’t be accepted in out of state colleges? So what? We got Bibles right here in Kansas. All our kids need to know is right there in the Scriptures. We’ll stop the brain drain for sure. Kids don’t need to leave Kansas looking for jobs. There’s hardly a week goes by that we don’t open a new McDonalds somewhere. And just a while back, the Eagle reported that there were about 6,000 service jobs as waiters, waitresses, dishwashers, etc right here in Wichita! What more could a kid ask for?
I am amazed, but yes, I find myself agreeing with Galahad yet again.
Seems that centuries ago the CHURCH taught that the earth was flat. The CHURCH taught that the sun/moon revolved around the earth. Anyone who claimed differently was ridiculed, persecuted and was the target of similar attacks that we see today.
The CHURCH seems to have a poor track record when discounting scientific fact. But….let us not stop believing everything the CHURCH tells us..whether in church or in school?
I don’t think so
Dud,
Well named.
X, what you and Gal (sorry, couldn’t resist) don’t seem to realize is that this is not, or at least shouldn’t be, an educational issue. That is a straw dog.
The reason I say this is because Darwinian theory (macro-evolution) does not have application in practical science. So, in order to be a physician, an engineer, a chemist, or any other profession that you can name, you don’t need to know how to apply the concepts of Darwinian theory.
But regardless of its practical value, our students are still going to be educated in the theory. If this is the case, then it would seem that this is not about education, but about world view.
I point you all to http://www.kansasmorons.com to show you just how much of a joke ID has made KS.
Teaching ID limits kids in the future as well. If home schooled children are being denied access to some universities as is happening right now, think of the KS children being denied access to a nice ivy league school because they don’t understand evolution.
Dud, you’re right. It’s not an education issue, it’s a scam to force religion back into the classroom. Being a Christian, I really don’t oppose religion in school. I do however, have a problem with masquerading it as science. ID isn’t science. If we’re going to have religion in schools, make it an elective course so it’s not crammed down anybody’s throat.
Did I just read what I thought I read? Macroevolution has no practical application to the world today??? Sheesh !!
(1) Bioinformatics, a multi-billion-dollar industry, consists largely of the comparison of genetic sequences. Descent with modification is one of its most basic assumptions. (2) Diseases and pests evolve resistance to the drugs and pesticides we use against them. Evolutionary theory is used in the field of resistance management in both medicine and agriculture. (3) Artificial selection has been used since prehistory, but it has become much more efficient with the addition of quantitative trait locus mapping. (4) Tracing genes of known function and comparing how they are related to unknown genes helps one to predict unknown gene function, which is foundational for drug discovery.
I kinda think the unifying concept of the modern biological sciences has proven its practical worth.
Darn, you all said what I was going to say! (Silence)
Wayreth…If homeschool kids are being denied access to some universities as you said.. then whay is there no public outcry of DISCRIMINATION? Homeschoolers are consistently scoring very high on both the ACT’s and the SAT’s. They are taught just as much about evolution as public school kids in any state, and so will OUR kids. Noone is stopping the teaching of evolution.. if Universities deny Kansas kids because they may be exposed to criticism of the theory.. then they are the morons!
Sam,
I guess the issue is this. If kids are exposed to both “theories” but in the home and at the Church one of them is disparaged as nonsense while the school is not allowed to respond in kind, then what will the kid walk away with? Do you think drug companies, and medical schools, veterinary schools, and anthropology departments will be interested in hiring or educating kids who basically deny the very foundation of their business or educational enterprises? Can you imagine working on genetic sequencing but at the same time denying that what it produces is “real” or has any relevence? I can’t.
Brian,I am NOT a scientist, but I fail to see what genetic sequencing has to do with the ID/evolution debate. Is anyone denying the existence of DNA or genomes, or that there is a very complex structure to everything? What does it matter scientifically if it all came from God or if it came from some other mass of energy?
Are we having a semantic problem here? Are we discussing origins of life (or the universe), or how the ability of lifeforms to adapt to the external stresses?
Sam,
Imagine for a moment a classroom filled with students who believe in ID but deny evolution. Imagine that they are being taught about the genetic clock based on measured rates of mutations….and that this clock points back to common ancestry etc. Imagine now the students walking out of the class and saying to themselves “bullshit”. So, I guess the question is, do the mutations occur at the measured rates or not? If yes, then how can one deny its implications?
Another example. The students sit in a physics class and learn about rates of radioactive decay. They learn that the measured rates allow us to build nuclear weapons and power plants. They next learn that residual radioactivity can be used to date objects and the same decay rate data that allowed us to build bombs points to a very old earth. And the students say “bullshit”. So, do radioactive nuclides decay as measured or not? If yes, then how does one deny the old earth implications?
My example with the genome was in the same vein. I ind it haed to believe that these students would accept genomic sequencing as valid when the basis for its theory and application is tied back to things like mutation rates and the idea of a genetic clock leading to common descent.
Brian..I hear what you are saying, but you are not going to find a classroom full if IDers, unless maybe it’s a Sunday School classroom. You may have a few, but should the scientific community deny ALL Kansas students because a few might not believe the same way they do? I would like to think that the testing would weed out anyone who does not understand “science”. Are the SAT’s and ACT’s biased? I would like to think not. If the Kansas students can’t cut it in the University classroom.. then give them the boot… but to do so beforehand is discriminatory and just plain wrong!
Sam,
No, I’m not saying that they should either, I’m only saying that I can understand the knee jerk reaction.
It’s interesting to recall that early Medieval Islamic civilization was the light to the scientific, mathematical, philosophical, and literary worlds. They developed algebra, trigonometry, did tremendous astronomical work (we get “zenith” and “nadir” from arabic for example), sailed the seas (our word admiral comes from trhe arabic “amir al” referring to the commander’s position as “lord of the sea”) and had beautiful cities with running water, sewers, and even street lighting.
Along came the islamic fundamentalists (because of the crusades) and poof!! all of this was gone. It took until the late 19th century for printing presses to b e allowed in most arab countries because of these guys.
It’s a grim warning..one we should take seriously.
darn it..I copied and pasted in the wrong spot again !! I won’t do it again. The above post was mine.
Brian..That is all definately true, but the fundamentalists don’t have a corner on the market of social, intellectual and economic oppression. Sometimes it’s just driven by pure unadulterated greed.. the country of Zimbabwe comes to mind.
Sam,Unless someone is able to halt the trend, the fund. movement is going to do just that, corner the market on soc., int., econ. issues. These groups believed that God is behind them, and how one can reason against blind faith is still not within my power.