It didn’t take long for Bob Corkins, the new Kansas education commissioner, to dig into his small bag of ideological tricks and pull out — surprise! — vouchers.
Vouchers might have more relevance if Kansas had hopelessly dysfunctional schools. That’s not the case — our schools, by most measures, are doing a fine job. And they’re getting better. That’s one reason why there is no public groundswell for vouchers.
Many people also wonder how transferring taxpayer dollars from public schools to private schools would improve public education in our state — especially when the Kansas Supreme Court ruled this year that our schools need more resources, not less.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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35 Comments
Which is it? If schools are so good, why do they need so much more money?
Which is it? If schools are so good, why do they need so much more money?
What does being good have to do with being well funded, Joe? People and institutions are often ‘poor’ but do excellent work. The one is not necessarily causative of the other. However, funding does help good institutions do a better job.
Bob Corkins only experience is as a lobbyist. Some say the term lobbyist is a euphenism for political prostitute, selling their services to the highest bidder.
With that background, it makes me wonder who will make money off the voucher program and how will it benefit Corkins?
The horrible fact is that private schools cost more that the vouchers will give. So the poor will still not have access to private education and the school district will now have less resources leading to a substandard education.Vouchers, if all states participated in it, would lead to a greater class divide.If someone wants to raise their child in a religious school, then they can find their own resources to put their kids there.
I teach in a private school, and I will venture to say with great confidence that we aren’t equipped to deal with most special ed situations (perhaps with the exception of dyslexia/dysgraphia). I imagine our families probably would not be interested in our school taking on a bunch of “at-risk” kids, as part of what they pay for here is a certain academic environment.
As far as cost, what do most of you think the base tuition cost for a private school is? And remember base tuition doesn’t include all the costs of activities, athletics, field trips, etc. Would be curious as to the perception out there of private school costs.
Jeff! Being a private school you can reject students from attending right? Don’t get me wrong, and I’m not saying your school does this, but after Desegregation many private schools popped up and white flight to private and parochial schools had a swelling in numbers, because parents didn’t want their children to be in school with people of color.
My kids went to a parochial schools because I wanted them to have a quality education, it had nothing to do with racial issues. Private schools don’t have the discipline problems of other schools and the parental involvement is high. As far as I know, all the parents had their kids there for the same reasons.When we moved out to the subs, I switched them to the public schools, what a difference!If I had it all to do over again, we would have stayed in town and in the private schools until the last one went off to college.The only way we (and most families)could afford private Catholic education was to tithe to the church.
Yes, we can reject any student we want to, however, if a student is academically qualified, it is in our best interest for a whole host of reasons to be as diverse as possible. And the financial reality for us is we want to accept as many as we can until a grade is deemed officially full (we have specific numbers for each grade) because an empty seat generates no revenue.
You are correct in the historical situation you describe, but most private schools I’m familiar with strive very hard to have as much racial diversity as possible. The limiting factor is discretionary income, which means by de facto we tend to be “whiter” than the neighborhood public schools around us. I don’t have hard numbers, but I would venture to say we are about 15-20% minority, with about 2/3 of those kids of Asian descent and the rest predominantly African-American.
Now some would say vouchers would enable more minority kids that academically qualify to attend here. True, but with the acceptance of such money would like come regulatory strings that our board and administration may not want to become tied to.
By the way, the private school for which I work is not affiliated with any religious organization whatsoever, which makes the financial structure a little different. The parochial schools have the Diocese and its means and resouces behind it, we have no such larger support system. Doesn’t make one right or wrong or better or worse, but does make a difference in some ways of the finacial operation of the school.
Jeff,Thanks for the inside view; you asked for some guesses on your base tuition. A few years ago, I think Catholic schools asked for $3K per year from non-catholics (me being one of those). So, based on that, I am going to guess your base tuition is $6K per year???
Does anyone have an idea of what amount, these proposed vouchers are supposed to be?
Why don’t we just destroy public education altogether? Oh! Corkins and his state school board are already trying that.I think they want to corral all students into a church school, with or without the permission of the parents.
Pretty close, Steve!
We range from about $5600 to $7500, with middle and high school ages being up in that $7000+ range and elementary towards the lower end of the figures. There are private schools in Wichita where the tuition is over $10,000, which, by the way, is still actually cheaper than comparable private schools in other large and larger cities.
Wow! Thank you all, I learned a lot about private schools and a new way of looking at the voucher issue.
Valuable information from a blog! What a concept! Thanks, people!
It’s easy to say “put your kids in private school”.. but it’s very expensive like has been said. It’s also exclusive, which means your child must be accepted.Also, it does not opt you out of still paying for the public school that your kids are NOT attending. There are a few hardship scholarships available.. but it is very difficult when you are a family on a budget!
If Corkins has his way, and we mix the results with what the religious right wants, could we call the schools “madrassas” like in the middle east?
Brooks doesn’t want any competition, because he will be forced to use his thinking skills and try to solve the quality/efficiency/effectiveness balancing problem. All he has to worry about now is quality. Anyone in the private sector making the kind of money he is has already figured out this problem.
The Dallas School Board had a similar problem that Corkins is to Kansas.It cost a lot of money to finally get rid of him, but it was money well spent.
The sooner you start, the cheaper it gets.
So if we gave a voucher to a student at East High equal to the cost saved, what would be the problem? Is it possible that it would be cheaper? Even Damoon says the education is better. Why restrict good students just because of poor parents? And it doesn’t have to be only religious schools.
If we give a voucher equal to the cost saved, somebody is still a couple of grand short of being able to pay for a private school education. A couple of thousand bucks may not be much to some, but if you’re poor, it might as well be millions.
Seems to me the simpler solution would be to focus on what needs to be fixed with the public schools. Maybe they could learn a thing or two from the private schools. Money is not the issue, parochial school students consistantly score higher on achievement tests and their schools operate with much less funding than public schools.Higher expectations (for students AND teachers), effective disipline, and serious parental involvement has it’s payoffs.
You’re exactly right, Damoon, but how do we accomplish that?
Right now in the public schools, far too often, discipline is tough to mete out because parents don’t back the teacher and school because of the “my little Johnny would never do that” attitude. Some kids just don’t care, largely because learning doesn’t have importance in their home, even if they have a stable or semi-stable home life.
How can we get parents to care about and get involved in their child’s life if they currently aren’t showing real interest?
I asked these questions yesterday and the post dissapeared!What are the rules (if any) on home schooling?Are there any gov’t incentives (or penalties) to home school?Do the parents need to have a diploma or degree to home school?
Why would the WE pull a post with these questions?
Tracy….The only penalty I know of… is you still get to pay for that wonderful public schooling.Here is a website that is all about homeschooling legal issues.
http://www.hslda.org/
Jeff, those are exactly the issues that need to be addressed. How do we encourage change so that teachers have more power to discipline and control their classrooms? How do we encourage more commitment from parents? How do we promote student’s self responsibility? When we come up with working solutions, then things will start to change. Just throwing up our hands and saying it’s impossible isn’t acceptable if we care about the education of our future citizens. Focusing on these challenges HAS proven effective in the private schools. I believe it can be done in the public schools, too.The priciple at North High has already shown that change is possible with some effort.
No, we don’t just give up.
What is the key difference between the public and privates in this respect? In a private school, the parents, due to having to pay tuition, is very invested in what is going on (in fact, in a private school you can run into situation where parents get over-involved; believe me its possible). Somehow, we have to convince more parents with kids in the public schools that, thanks to the taxes they pay, are just as invested.
Its also getting tougher in this age of flash and blang entertainment. By that, I mean kids are so conditioned to always being entertained that you sometimes feel like you have to turn lessons into a circus side show to keep them entertained. Instilling the attitude that school is sometimes tough and isn’t always super exciting/entertaining is a big challenge, along with the challenge of how to educate kids that will become adults in an ever increasingly high tech and information driven world.
My apologies for the “parents” and “is” combo. I changed parent from singular to plural without checking the rest of the sentence. A big red check there for me! :)
The principal at North is a conservative Christian woman.
If she is effective, does it make a difference? What if she was an effective principal and an atheist?
Thanks Sam!
Hey, I’ve got an idea.
How about requiring private schools to take the same NCLB tests before they get public funds just like public schools have to?
I’ll probably get blasted for saying this, but I think the main problem in public schools is lack of dicipline. I think corpral punishment should be brought back. I know when I was in school, I minded my Ps and Qs because the alternative was a paddling. I don’t remember anybody dying from being paddled. Oh I know, we’ll damage the children’s delicate little egos. Excuse me, but about half the kids I know need a swift kick in the butt, anyway. I think it’s time to start applying the “board of knowledge” to the “seat of education”.
So many kids today have little respect or fear of adults. I think that’s because too many parents are more interested in being their kid’s best friend than a good parent.I went to Catholic school and we wouldn’t have DREAMED of talking back to a teacher, especially a nun or priest. In grade school we even stood at attention when one entered the classroom! I think it would be a good thing if today’s kids were a little more intimidated by authority.When I switched my kids from parochial to public schools, my daughter was miserable at first. She’d come home crying everyday, complaining that the kids were loud and out of control and that she couldn’t concentrate in class. After a few weeks, she adjusted and made some friends, then became just as obnoxious as the rest of them.My kids loved public school, but now that they’re adults, they insist that they want their kids in private schools.
Galahad,I would venture to guess well over 80% of private school students would pass the NCLB test with flying colors.
As stated earlier in this blog, parents take a more involved role in their children when they’re enrolled in private schools. It’s a given when parents are involved, the children do better.
But I agree: they should take the tests in order to get public funding. The problem I see is the tests may be beneath the level of the students they are testing.
If we require private schools to satisfy all the same needless regulations as do the public schools, they will become as moribound as the public schools.