Attorney Alan Dershowitz made what I thought was a cogent argument on CNN’s “The Situation Room” about when torture should be allowed (see the full transcript here).
As a rule, never. The only possible exception, he said, is with so-called “ticking time bomb” cases, which are admittedly hypothetical but could happen. In that extreme and rare case, says Dershowitz, “The president has to take personal responsibility . . . . I’m saying that torture should never be authorized by the CIA or by the civilian personnel, by anybody. Only in the most extreme emergency, akin to the shooting down of a plane with civilians on it, should arguably, the president be authorized to make the decision that in this particular case, we have to break the law . . . If we’re not prepared to have the president sign off on that, then we should never do it and let the chips fall where that may.”
I think Dershowitz’ argument makes sense — and ensures accountability. It’s far better approach than all the mixed messages, winking and buck-passing going on now in the Bush administration.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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20 Comments
The military’s own publication (Field Artillery Magazine shows we’ve used chemical weapons in Fallujah. Italy has a documentary that shows evidence airing.
How can we as a nation ever turn back the damage this administration has done to the worlds opinion of us.
We torture, imprison people indefinitely, and use chemical weapons. Isn’t that what we accused Saddam of doing that made him such a bad guy? We’re even doing it to the same people that Saddam did (Iraqi’s)
How America can interrogate and keep its self-respect . . .
The larger question: Torture techniques developed in “Facility 1391″ in the degenerate rogue state of Israel are to be expected from the sadistic Zionist psychopaths which enjoy that sort of thing, but should the United States try to justify stooping to that level?
No it shouldn’t, and here’s why:
The United States has standards of moral conduct, which are gravely endangered by its association with the jailhouse mentality of low-life Zionist Israel. Their conduct keeps them in a constant state of disgusting reprehensible behaviors which are far beneath American values and just our contact with them drives a discussion about a subject which our constitution forbids.
Zionists are driven only by greed not conscience.
Torture is fine for them, and they sadistically enjoy what they’ve develpoed and exported to Abu Griap prison in Iraq and elsewhere.
Americans rightly put people in jail for such conduct and that is how it should be. Justification for abhorrent behaviors is always easy to find. As is a country whose backbone of conduct is based on things which make most moral people sick to their stomachs.
Should the United States violate its constitution and adopt the despicable immorality a rogue state such as Israel?
The answer to that question is simple.
Accountability in this administration; you have to be joking.
To say torture could be used in the most extreme circumstances and only with permission of the president would only condone the routine use of torture as an interrogation technique. All we need is a foot in the door to lose our soul.
Damoon I agree. How many times in recent history has it been the president who initiated military action without the approval of congress? I imagine each time action was taken could be considered an extreme circumstance and his permission is what initiates the military action.I also want to say that if given the choice of condoning torture against strangers or seeing my loved ones go down in flames, hmmm….I’d act like Sgt. Schultz from Hogan’s heroes.I see nothing,….nothing.
Tracy is right.
Law enforcement will get the job done. As far as giving any authority on torture to Bush, he’s busy violating war-crimes an international law right now, so just wait and hang him later.
The Iraq “thing” is heinous now anyway and Mr. Stupid doesn’t care one iota. He’s on a “mission from God” as the Blues-brothers said they were in their famous flim.
I wonder if he learned anything from that book he was reading about the Goat?
The “faulty intelligence” excuse got us into Iraq; it would probably do to get somebody tortured. We can either become a state that tortures people, or we can live to the spirit of our constitution.
Well Said…….Jed
In a recent news item it was noted that Philipine authorities arrested someone they thought had been involved in the Burnham kidnapping. It was subsequently shown that he had not been involved. What would have happened if he had been turned over to the US and tortured to death? Would we have ever learned that he was innocent? Would we still be looking for the real kidnappers?
I agree with Alan Dershowitz and Randy Scholfield. That is really tough to admit.
Our government absolutely must have that power in extreme and only in extreme cases such as those described. To think otherwise, while high-minded, is also irresponsible.
Dud,Who defines extreme cases; the torturer or the tortured? What if we tortured people to find weapons that don’t exist? Excuse me- that’s what we’re doing!
Jed: Let me ask you this. Say you are the President. Can you envision any circumstance in which you would ever think torture a necessary evil? How about to save an elementary school full of kids?
I think that we are too far removed from the battles for many to see that we are at war. I hope and pray that this continues to be the case.
When was it proven that torturing people provides accurate, reliable intelligence? Isn’t it just the opposite?We can think up extreme situations all day to rationalize the use of torture, but that’s not what our country’s about. How can we condemn other country’s human rights abuses while we’re guilty of the same? How can we insist that other countries adhere to the rules of the Geneva Convention when we choose not to? There is no way to justify torture for any reason without being totally hypocritical. I think our image to the rest of the world has been damaged enough, let’s not make it worse than it already is.
Dud,If I were President, wouldn’t that be torture enough for you fundies?Don’t worry, I’m not running; I don’t want the job!
I wouldn’t want to be president either. Queen maybe, but not president. I’d make a great dictator!
Talk to the vets, the folks that were there. We (and that is a collective we) tortured people in Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, WW II, WW I, The Civil War, The Indian Wars, etc, and ETC…… In times of extreme stress people do what they feel needs to be done, including murder, rape, torture, mutilate, lie, steal, and the list goes on and on. I do not condone any of this, however it happens, and our government has been in the big middle of prisoner abuse for about 230 years, or more.
Justone,How much of that was actually needed to gain usable information, and how much was an expression of anger at anyone who would choose to oppose us? Have we ever gained anything vital and useful by torture? Enough to justify cruelty and the risk of having our own also subjected to torture?
Jed, war is war and terrible things happen in war. Things that in everyday life none of us would even consider. Anger and responding to the frustration of war, the stupidity of war will cause each of us to commit acts that would haunt us for the rest of our lives. That is on the personal level. When governments, including our own, use such methods and plan on using those methods, and prepare secure places for such activity, then it goes beyond acting and reacting to the pressures of war and all that goes with it. It now becomes a war crime and a hate crime and those leaders who would support such things need to go. They will take our country down a path that we will nopt recover from. Sounds kind of preachy, but very true.
Justone,Agreed.
The other day, our troops discovered a secret prison in Bagdad where Shiite guards were torturing Sunni prisoners. Unfortunately, we no longer have the moral high ground left from which to say anything about it with a straight face.