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	<title>Comments on: Democrats taking a risk with Bush rally</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/</link>
	<description>The Wichita Eagle Editorial Department Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Jed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11605</link>
		<dc:creator>Jed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11605</guid>
		<description>Falcone,Hey, election fraud is good old American tradition!My dad used to tell stories of the Pendergast Machine in KC in the &#039;20&#039;s and &#039;30&#039;s, of how Tom Pendergast was so popular that the dead would rise from their graves to vote for him! Truckloads of bums would roll up to the polling places, each would be given a slip of paper with a name, and when they came out, would be handed a dollar and a pint of booze, and get trucked to the next polling place.I imagine that similar stories could be told about most American cities, at some time in their histories.Third world politicians are pikers!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Falcone,Hey, election fraud is good old American tradition!My dad used to tell stories of the Pendergast Machine in KC in the &#8217;20&#8217;s and &#8217;30&#8217;s, of how Tom Pendergast was so popular that the dead would rise from their graves to vote for him! Truckloads of bums would roll up to the polling places, each would be given a slip of paper with a name, and when they came out, would be handed a dollar and a pint of booze, and get trucked to the next polling place.I imagine that similar stories could be told about most American cities, at some time in their histories.Third world politicians are pikers!</p>
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		<title>By: Galahad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11604</link>
		<dc:creator>Galahad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11604</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Falcone, but that&#039;s in countries where officials actually listen to their constituents and people actually vote.

Since officials don&#039;t listen here, we don&#039;t bother to vote.

So it&#039;s all good . . .
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Falcone, but that&#8217;s in countries where officials actually listen to their constituents and people actually vote.</p>
<p>Since officials don&#8217;t listen here, we don&#8217;t bother to vote.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s all good . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Falcone</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11603</link>
		<dc:creator>Falcone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11603</guid>
		<description>Irregularities with voting machines should make any good American&#039;s blood run cold. The integrity of the vote should transend party affiliation. Why on earth would anyone advocate machines that don&#039;t leave a hardcopy record? I can think of only one reason, and that&#039;s to cheat. If that&#039;s going on, it&#039;s only a matter of time before it&#039;s found out. I don&#039;t even want to consider the consequences of such a thing. Election fraud is something that happens in third-world countries. Denial of representation (election fraud) leads to rebellion and civil war. Think about it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irregularities with voting machines should make any good American&#8217;s blood run cold. The integrity of the vote should transend party affiliation. Why on earth would anyone advocate machines that don&#8217;t leave a hardcopy record? I can think of only one reason, and that&#8217;s to cheat. If that&#8217;s going on, it&#8217;s only a matter of time before it&#8217;s found out. I don&#8217;t even want to consider the consequences of such a thing. Election fraud is something that happens in third-world countries. Denial of representation (election fraud) leads to rebellion and civil war. Think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Friedemann</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11602</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Friedemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11602</guid>
		<description>CF

Right on target.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CF</p>
<p>Right on target.</p>
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		<title>By: Galahad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11601</link>
		<dc:creator>Galahad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11601</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm&lt;/a&gt;

Check this link for probably the best overview of the e-voting fraud in Florida.

A negative 16,000 votes were recorded for Gore at 2 a.m.  How does a voter cast a &quot;negative&quot; vote?  This was clearly vote tampering and it was only noticed because it was so obvious.  We have no idea of how much this was going on in smaller ways.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm</a></p>
<p>Check this link for probably the best overview of the e-voting fraud in Florida.</p>
<p>A negative 16,000 votes were recorded for Gore at 2 a.m.  How does a voter cast a &#8220;negative&#8221; vote?  This was clearly vote tampering and it was only noticed because it was so obvious.  We have no idea of how much this was going on in smaller ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Galahad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11600</link>
		<dc:creator>Galahad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11600</guid>
		<description>Democrats are taking a risk . . . hmmm . . . what are they taking when they don&#039;t do anything?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Democrats are taking a risk . . . hmmm . . . what are they taking when they don&#8217;t do anything?</p>
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		<title>By: Galahad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11599</link>
		<dc:creator>Galahad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11599</guid>
		<description>Joe Blow--

Would you get money out of an ATM that didn&#039;t give you a receipt?  Would you write a check from a bank that threw your check away so you had no proof that the 50 dollar check you wrote wasn&#039;t really 50 thousand dollars?

This is what we do every time we vote on an electronic voting machine.  We have no record that our vote counted or what we voted for.

If that doesn&#039;t bother you, you&#039;re not paying attention.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Blow&#8211;</p>
<p>Would you get money out of an ATM that didn&#8217;t give you a receipt?  Would you write a check from a bank that threw your check away so you had no proof that the 50 dollar check you wrote wasn&#8217;t really 50 thousand dollars?</p>
<p>This is what we do every time we vote on an electronic voting machine.  We have no record that our vote counted or what we voted for.</p>
<p>If that doesn&#8217;t bother you, you&#8217;re not paying attention.</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11598</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11598</guid>
		<description>I was hoping Joe Blow would come skulking back around.  I&#039;d like to thank him for his obliging predictability.

Hey Joe, I know it&#039;s a bit, well, &#039;reality-based&#039; and all, but the GAO (General Accounting Office) agrees with me, and not with you, that serious issues of fairness and credibility are associated with Diebold voting machines in particular, and with the American system of free and fair elections generally.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf&lt;/a&gt;

I know it&#039;s going to be hard for you to slog through, since it has, you know, words and facts and stuff.  But do try, if for no other reason than to prove me wrong when I call you &#039;willfully ignorant.&#039;

The other issue has to do with the 2005 election in Ohio.  Three ballot measures intended to reform the state&#039;s election system, Issues 2-5, were headed for comfortable victories on Election Day, according to pre-election polling by the Columbus Dispatch, whose accuracy in such polling has been described as &#039;uncanny&#039;.

Two of them were defeated by statistically impossible margins: the third was defeated by margin that was merely statistically &#039;highly improbable.&#039;  Here is the link:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1559&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1559&lt;/a&gt;

The takeaway line from the story is worth including here:

&quot;And thus the possible explanations for the staggering defeats of Issues Two through Five boil down to two: either the Dispatch polling---dead accurate for Issue One---was wildly wrong beyond all possible statistical margin of error for Issues 2-5, or the electronic machines on which Ohio and much of the nation conduct their elections were hacked by someone wanting to change the vote count.&quot;

If one has eyes to see, or the stomach to face it, it&#039;s pretty clear that the validity of American elections is seriously in doubt.  Two elections have now been stolen in Ohio.

Not that Joe Blow cares.  The idea of freedom makes him so anxious that he can&#039;t surrender it to the fascist GOP quickly enough.

And that goes for the rest of you who, because your party benefits from stealing elections, turn a blind eye or attack Democrats as does Joe Blow.  Where fair elections are concerned, all Americans of good will ought to be able to move beyond partisanship.

Those who can&#039;t aren&#039;t good Americans.  They&#039;re &#039;Good Germans.&#039;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was hoping Joe Blow would come skulking back around.  I&#8217;d like to thank him for his obliging predictability.</p>
<p>Hey Joe, I know it&#8217;s a bit, well, &#8216;reality-based&#8217; and all, but the GAO (General Accounting Office) agrees with me, and not with you, that serious issues of fairness and credibility are associated with Diebold voting machines in particular, and with the American system of free and fair elections generally.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf</a></p>
<p>I know it&#8217;s going to be hard for you to slog through, since it has, you know, words and facts and stuff.  But do try, if for no other reason than to prove me wrong when I call you &#8216;willfully ignorant.&#8217;</p>
<p>The other issue has to do with the 2005 election in Ohio.  Three ballot measures intended to reform the state&#8217;s election system, Issues 2-5, were headed for comfortable victories on Election Day, according to pre-election polling by the Columbus Dispatch, whose accuracy in such polling has been described as &#8216;uncanny&#8217;.</p>
<p>Two of them were defeated by statistically impossible margins: the third was defeated by margin that was merely statistically &#8216;highly improbable.&#8217;  Here is the link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1559" rel="nofollow">http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1559</a></p>
<p>The takeaway line from the story is worth including here:</p>
<p>&#8220;And thus the possible explanations for the staggering defeats of Issues Two through Five boil down to two: either the Dispatch polling&#8212;dead accurate for Issue One&#8212;was wildly wrong beyond all possible statistical margin of error for Issues 2-5, or the electronic machines on which Ohio and much of the nation conduct their elections were hacked by someone wanting to change the vote count.&#8221;</p>
<p>If one has eyes to see, or the stomach to face it, it&#8217;s pretty clear that the validity of American elections is seriously in doubt.  Two elections have now been stolen in Ohio.</p>
<p>Not that Joe Blow cares.  The idea of freedom makes him so anxious that he can&#8217;t surrender it to the fascist GOP quickly enough.</p>
<p>And that goes for the rest of you who, because your party benefits from stealing elections, turn a blind eye or attack Democrats as does Joe Blow.  Where fair elections are concerned, all Americans of good will ought to be able to move beyond partisanship.</p>
<p>Those who can&#8217;t aren&#8217;t good Americans.  They&#8217;re &#8216;Good Germans.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: XXX</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11597</link>
		<dc:creator>XXX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11597</guid>
		<description>Oh, somebody needs to cut back their caffeen intake!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, somebody needs to cut back their caffeen intake!</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Blow</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11596</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Blow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11596</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s it, that&#039;s it, keep dreaming about Diebold machines.  Helps keeps the pain away from having your butts kicked by an &quot;idiot&quot; twice in a row!!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s it, that&#8217;s it, keep dreaming about Diebold machines.  Helps keeps the pain away from having your butts kicked by an &#8220;idiot&#8221; twice in a row!!</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11595</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11595</guid>
		<description>Otto,

Agreed.  Why should it matter to us, at all, what our adversaries say about us? Considering the pack of liars, thieves, and killers they&#039;ve turned out to be, any criticisms from them counts as praise.  And considering that it was Bush the Elder who created Karl Rove, and who perfected and benefitted from the attack politics of Rove and Lee Atwater, he&#039;s as much to blame as anyone.

Moreover, considering that W&#039;s poll numbers are so in the toilet that the administration is floating a 2006 Iraq withdrawal date, the idea that DEMOCRATS are the ones with everything to lose is laughable.  Just laughable.  I think a lot of folks want to see Democrats stand up and take the initiative.  I know I do.  You don&#039;t win anyone over playing defense.

That said, my idea for the rally is to implore Papa Bush to exercise some fatherly wisdom/restraint over Junior: you know, kind of a Bush family &#039;intervention.&#039;  And if not that, then a bit of familial shame: &quot;Poppy Bush, he&#039;s YOUR son--do something!&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Otto,</p>
<p>Agreed.  Why should it matter to us, at all, what our adversaries say about us? Considering the pack of liars, thieves, and killers they&#8217;ve turned out to be, any criticisms from them counts as praise.  And considering that it was Bush the Elder who created Karl Rove, and who perfected and benefitted from the attack politics of Rove and Lee Atwater, he&#8217;s as much to blame as anyone.</p>
<p>Moreover, considering that W&#8217;s poll numbers are so in the toilet that the administration is floating a 2006 Iraq withdrawal date, the idea that DEMOCRATS are the ones with everything to lose is laughable.  Just laughable.  I think a lot of folks want to see Democrats stand up and take the initiative.  I know I do.  You don&#8217;t win anyone over playing defense.</p>
<p>That said, my idea for the rally is to implore Papa Bush to exercise some fatherly wisdom/restraint over Junior: you know, kind of a Bush family &#8216;intervention.&#8217;  And if not that, then a bit of familial shame: &#8220;Poppy Bush, he&#8217;s YOUR son&#8211;do something!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Otto</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11594</link>
		<dc:creator>Otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11594</guid>
		<description>Bush Sr. couldn&#039;t beat Bill Clinton in an election. So how popular was he really? He does represent the Republican Party—the party that has complete &#8220;one-party-state&#8221; control of the country—the party that keeps us at war with imperialist adventures that always affect poor people&#039;s kids—and the party that has mastered the technique of getting around all rules regarding campaign contributions, raising huge sums of money for campaigns and getting rich off these offices.Most Republicans in this state would vote against a Democrat, for a Republican, even if every Republican politician, in the state, shot them in the leg. So why should we care if we offend them?The Democrats have played it safe long enough that they have lost enough elections to put them in a third party status. Jesse Jackson once said: &#8220;You can&#039;t fall much further when your face is down in the mud.&#8221; Well the Democrats have little left to loose from taking an aggressive stand. They have plenty to gain. It&#039;s time to get our face out of the mud.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush Sr. couldn&#8217;t beat Bill Clinton in an election. So how popular was he really? He does represent the Republican Party—the party that has complete &ldquo;one-party-state&rdquo; control of the country—the party that keeps us at war with imperialist adventures that always affect poor people&#8217;s kids—and the party that has mastered the technique of getting around all rules regarding campaign contributions, raising huge sums of money for campaigns and getting rich off these offices.Most Republicans in this state would vote against a Democrat, for a Republican, even if every Republican politician, in the state, shot them in the leg. So why should we care if we offend them?The Democrats have played it safe long enough that they have lost enough elections to put them in a third party status. Jesse Jackson once said: &ldquo;You can&#8217;t fall much further when your face is down in the mud.&rdquo; Well the Democrats have little left to loose from taking an aggressive stand. They have plenty to gain. It&#8217;s time to get our face out of the mud.</p>
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		<title>By: J M Walker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11593</link>
		<dc:creator>J M Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11593</guid>
		<description>Galahad,

&quot;One question worth asking though is why the Chamber of Commerce invites big name speakers as long as they are Republican.&quot;

A one word answer should suffice: Duh!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Galahad,</p>
<p>&#8220;One question worth asking though is why the Chamber of Commerce invites big name speakers as long as they are Republican.&#8221;</p>
<p>A one word answer should suffice: Duh!</p>
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		<title>By: Galahad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11592</link>
		<dc:creator>Galahad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11592</guid>
		<description>Actually, Joe Blow, that is entirely correct.  Protests are easy, organizing to win elections is hard.

One question worth asking though is why the Chamber of Commerce invites big name speakers as long as they are Republican.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Joe Blow, that is entirely correct.  Protests are easy, organizing to win elections is hard.</p>
<p>One question worth asking though is why the Chamber of Commerce invites big name speakers as long as they are Republican.</p>
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		<title>By: XXX</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11591</link>
		<dc:creator>XXX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11591</guid>
		<description>Touche`, CF. Good one!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Touche`, CF. Good one!</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Friedemann</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11590</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Friedemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11590</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s a Diebold machine?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s a Diebold machine?</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11589</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11589</guid>
		<description>Joe Blow,

To &#039;win&#039; elections nowadays, evidently one has to own the Diebold machines.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Blow,</p>
<p>To &#8216;win&#8217; elections nowadays, evidently one has to own the Diebold machines.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Friedemann</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11588</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Friedemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11588</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to see the Republican Party retake the Republican Party.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to see the Republican Party retake the Republican Party.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Blow</title>
		<link>http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takin/#comment-11587</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Blow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.varsitykansas.com/weblog/2005/11/democrats_takinhtml/#comment-11587</guid>
		<description>All seven of them are going to demonstrate?The Dems are still stuck in the 60s.  Yeah, c&#039;mon kids, let&#039;s put on a demonstration!  It&#039;s easier than winning elections.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All seven of them are going to demonstrate?The Dems are still stuck in the 60s.  Yeah, c&#8217;mon kids, let&#8217;s put on a demonstration!  It&#8217;s easier than winning elections.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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