Under the Bush administration, more than a billion dollars has gone to abstinence-only sex education programs, such as Abstinence Education Inc., a Wichita group that just received a $770,800 federal grant.
Arthur Caplan, director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania, had this (and more) to say about abstinence-only sex education:
“In short, the idea that teens will remain celibate until they marry — and that they don’t need information about sex — says much more about the values and fantasies of the people who are promoting these policies than it does about teens. . . .
“I am completely against abstinence-only sex ed programs for three reasons: There is no evidence at all that they work; common sense says they have no chance of working; and it is not clear that ethically they send the right message to young people.”
Posted by Melissa Cooley
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59 Comments
Huh? Mr. Kaplan needs to study his biology books again. Abstinence would the ONLY way to ensure safety against STD’s or pregnancy.
I’m personally amused by the redefinition of abstinence by those teens taking such a vow. Blowjobs, anal, handjobs, and the rest don’t qualify as intercourse so they’re perfectly permissible. I somehow fail to see how this redefinition helps to prevent STDs and it certainly doesn’t completely eliminate the possibility of a pregnancy. I assume that the future outcome of this whole effort will be a generation that grows up to be lawyers discusssing the meaning od the word “is”.
Isn’t it amazing that somehow, after 30, we forget how horny we were when we were teenagers? These people are probably all hypocrites!
Everyone needs to know about how their bodies work.I was in a majors college biology course…which means everyone in there was going into some kind of biology or medical major.We had just completed a lesson on female reproductive cycle. Two girls talked to me during lab to clear some things up for themselves…they had no idea how they had periods.
Ignorance is not the way to protect children.
Ignorance? Letting kids know that they can, if they choose, control themselves is not ignorance it is power!
abstinence-only sex ed programs still educate kids on all the same biology, STD’s etc….The only diffrence is that they just say there is ONLY 1 way to be 100% safe.
Just because 80% of you could not control yourselves when you were stupid teens does not mean it can’t be done. There are some people who did wait, and value sex diffrently than you do.
Uh uh…don’t judge me mister dr, I am more strait-laced than you think.I do understand human sexual behavior. My life choices do not give me the right to judge anyone elses choices.
I will pose a question to you…what about masterbation? Should it be mentioned in sex ed that masterbation is a good way to release sexual frustration while waiting for your life-mate? Or is anything sexual the big bad no-no?
1. Conservatives don’t enjoy sex.
2. Conservatives hate anybody who does enjoy sex.
3. Conservatives only have sex for reproduction.
4. Conservatives spend the rest of their lives on a guilt trip because they had sex to procreate.
5. Conservatives believe that if a woman enjoys sex, she’s a whore and should be punished.
6. Conservative’s children are raised to believe they were brought by the stork or found under a cabbage leaf.
7. Since conservatives don’t enjoy sex, they don’t want anybody else to, either.
8. Conservatives believe that since God didn’t screw Mary’s brains out, sex is filthy nasty.
9. The reason conservatives suck is because they’re sexually repressed (and anal-retentive).
10. Conservatives would be much nicer people if they’d just get laid once in a while.
No conservatives just view sex a little more like a loaded gun than a fps video game.
like a loaded gun….when used irresponsibly and without respect it can take your life away and/or hurt other people. But, if used with respect and control is great fun.
jubal has a very conservative sense of humor.I have granddaughters. The only point I have made with them is that if they have babies before getting married, their parents and myself will still love them but cannot help them much financially. Please look into the welfare system before beginning a life of poverty.
Jubal exaggerates to make a point, but it’s a valid point.
Not all conservatives are sexual perverts, but it seems that all political perverts are conservative.
Latest on the list–Lou Beres, head of the Christian Coalition of Oregon. Child sex abuse of three close relatives as pre-teens.
Maybe conservatives wouldn’t do all this twisted stuff if they weren’t so hung up on it . . .
Also, notice how abstinence for teens is the big issue. Not abstinence for single ADULTS like Ann Coulter for instance, nor DIVORCE which is just as common among conservatives as liberals.
Nope, it’s teen sex that must be repressed. And since teens can’t really vote and are a nice safe target, isn’t that convEINent?
{conservatives just view sex a little more like a loaded gun than a fps video game.}
Freudian slip?
Just demonstrates my point. Conservatives = sex is dangerous, sex will kill you. Sex is nasty, sex is filthy, naughty, naughty.
Perhaps a little more education is in order and a little less nonsense and fearmongering. But of course, fearmongering is all conservatives know.
I think there must be a lot of frusterated conservative women out there. They probably don’t even know why. Might even explain Ann Coulter.
dr,Sex as a loaded gun! Wow, what an analogy! Notice that the people who think that way also resist any effort to unload that gun!Wasn’t all that long ago that preachers alleged that pennicillin was the tool of Satan, since it cured syphillis, God’s chosen tool for dealing with fornication.Some are still against condoms for the same reason.Let’s see; sex is dangerous, so people shouldn’t do it. And we can’t make it safer, since that would only encourage people to do it. Anything circular here?
Jubal,It would take a lot more than that to explain Ann Coulter!
I smell extinction. Nah, couldn’t happen since evolution is a myth.
Sex after marriage is an awesome and beautiful thing designed by God. Sex outside of marriage is just plain stupid, I know.. I made that regrettable mistake. Conservatives don’t hate sex.. but they do hate all the problems that it creates outside of marriage. God forgives, but that does not take away the consequences of STD’s and unwanted pregnancy.Abstinance education DOES work.. these kids are smarter than we were at their age. I say give it a chance… but if you can’t control yourself… for God’s sake, please use a condom or birth control!!
ksam, well said my friend.
Kansassam, you’re starting to sound positively liberal with all that talk about condoms and birth control! Don’t you understand that you’re going against the doctrine of your party? A true conservative would NEVER condone birth control or condoms! Why, next thing we know, you’ll be advocating clean needle exchanges! Oh you must be careful, kssam. The road to liberalism is fraught with peril!
But just to show you that I’m not disagreeable to conservative doctrine, I agree with conservatives. I think they should abstain from sex altogether. If we could just get conservatives to quit breeding, the gene pool would be almost clean in a couple of generations.
F off “Jubal”. Your ignorance is glaring!
Gee, I would have called it “sardonic wit”.
Oh my, have I offended you, NoJoCo? It wasn’t my intention. Just having a little fun. But I keep forgetting, conservatives don’t like fun and don’t have a sense of humor. Just 2 more reasons why you people should not breed. Of course, if you don’t appreciate my attempt at humor, may I point out that despite you and your kinds attempts to make it otherwise, this is still a free country, and I’ll say what I please.
I remind you…a computer is like a TV. It has an “off” switch. May I respectfully suggest you turn yours off? You don’t seem to be putting it to very good use.
Oh sorry “Jubal” did I interupt your little liberal BS session?
By the way, your stereotyping is just that. You have no clue who I am or what I do but you lump everyone right of you into your narrow viewpoint. Your viewpoint sucks, get out of your hole once in a while.
Oh, and I was just having a little fun too.
I always wonder what these people mean by “abstainence doesn’t work”. Do they mean it doesn’t prevent STD’s or unwanted pregnancies? That no one can abstain? That abstainence-only sex ed doesn’t result in fewer teens having sex? Because it does do all these things. If they mean that not everyone is going to abstain, well, duh. There always have been people who do stupid things, and there always will be. I don’t see why the rest of the teenage population needs to be dragged down to their level – that is, those kids who do abstain when given abstainence education, but who have premarital sex when given the typical liberal sex ed. Clearly, the education is to blame.Oh, by the way, conservatives like sex just fine in it’s proper context. Another analogy – eating is great, but eating the wrong things or the wrong amount isn’t – it can make you sick, etc. Jubal apparently can’t understand such a subtle distinction as “within marriage”.
Mia,
One way to find out what is meant is to click on the link provided by Ms. Cooley in her blog. In it you will find exactly the information you need. You’ll find that kids have become sexual literalists. Blowjobs, cunnilingus, anal, 69, handjobs, and the rest don’t qualify as intercourse so they’re perfectly permissible in the minds of the “abstinence only” crowd.
You might also try backing your claims up in the same way that Dr. Caplan has.
Great posts jubal. I haven’t seen you before, welcome.
And here is JOE again. “I will love any child my grandaughter has out of wedlock, but I have told them that financial support will be minimal. I bet your support for your grand daughter getting an abortion would be pretty minimal too JOE! Witness once again the conservative! “Abortion is murder! But once that child is born HEY! don’t be looking to me to help feed it!”
I got a way better idea for this money being wasted on abstinence only education. Let’s put that funding toward research into time travel! That way, the conservatives can all go back to 1953! or even further back like to the dark ages! They’d be so much happier there and the rest of us would not miss them. And there are SIDE BENEFITS TOO. Imagine how the bushies could use time travel to address lots of mistakes they have made. Hey wait! We could use time travel to go back and make sure the votes were counted and bush would never have happened. Imagine it! Temporal abortion!
NoJoCo, you’re not interrupting at all. Everybody should have a pissed-off conservative to play with. Looks like I got a couple if you count Mia. Noj, I’m not stereotyping, I’m qualifying.{You have no clue who I am or what I do}You’re right, I don’t care, you’re not very interesting. Just cranky. But lack of sex makes people that way (just listen to Mia!). And I DO enjoy cranky conservatives, even tho they’re a dime a dozen. The country crawls with em. More evidence that the gene pool needs cleaning.
NoJoCo, besides not getting any, what makes you so cranky?
_______________________
The blank is for you to fill in with your usual string of profanity and put-downs. I won’t bother with insults. I’m sure you get enough of that from your frusterated wife.
Have a nice day!;)
Thanks JR! Pleasure to make your aquaintance. I posted once a couple of months ago, but I guess I didn’t make much of an impression, lol. Hope you don’t mind if I play with some of your conservatives. Such friendly people!
I’ve read some of your posts….great stuff!
Jubal,Welcome aboard! Just please don’t be too rough on the fundies; you know how they sulk and quit playing, and it’s not as fun without them.
What is hopelessly lost on you people is exactly how rewarding sex is when it is not treated so casually. For you it is just a gratifying experience, nothing more, no meaning, no value just a good time for the 2 min you last.
Rather, abstinence at its core teaches all this in addition to keeping kids from having kids. As, Mia pointed out, and I said earlier there will always be the dumb ones, they will go on to write blogs about how no-one can possibly control a single desire and how self control defies common-sense….riiiight
J.R.,
Your Oct 18, 08:14pm was your best post ever. I would love to see that movie — please do the screen play soon.
Thanks.
Jubal..if conservatives stop breeding then I guess Brian will get to witness extinction of the species… since the liberals will abort all their babies!! LOL!see the problem with your kind of thinking.. we characterize our conservative and liberal friends in an “extreme” light. In actuality, most of us are not extremists at all, but more moderate on many issues. It is not conservatives or liberals that is the enemy.. it is the extremists on either side when they get out of control.
Stop making sense, sam. The libs don’t like it (I don’t get into the labeling game, but I guess that’s what people like Jubal want). If you stand for what is right, then people like to put some label on you.”Jubal” said,”I won’t bother with insults. I’m sure you get enough of that from your frusterated wife.” Hypocrisy within two sentenses.
JR,Joe C was saying that his family doesn’t have a lot of money – not that he wouldn’t support his grandaughter’s child.
Ah, Noj…you reak of horse pucky!
Thank-you Jed. Your kindness is appreciated!
NoJoCo..We all have to live in God’s world now, don’t we! It’s much easier if you step back and really understand who you are mad at and why!!
No one has answered my question on masterbation.Should it be taught in schools that masterbation is OK…without going into details of course. No one has ever needed instructions on masterbation.
This is a telling question. If you think abstinance until marriage is important and yet any sexual release is bad…form your own conclusions.
Well I think that it takes a bit of a tangent to what we are talking about here, and there are alot of factors. But, no it should not be taught as a method of control, but it should not be taught that its “bad”, people can figure out masterbation on thier own, there is no need to raise it in the sex-ed class
but masterbation is not without consequence, you will objectify people as mere sex objects. You are just feeding the monster in the cage, and you have not dealt with the core issue of why you want sex without attatchment and commitment.
Most adults understand that this is what abstinance-only sex-ed is. I tells children the value of sex. How powerful self-control can be and deals with our self-gratifying desires, It is supposed to be a giving not a recieving act by both people, masterbation does not develop this attitude toward sex…..Ill let you form your own conclusion about the approach that develops a healthier sex life
Of course abstinence goes a long way in preventing STD’s and pregnancy. That’s not the issue.The issue is that when it fails, and the surveys show those failures, abstinence education withholds information vital to preventing that failure from becoming a disaster. The only conclusion is that the promoters of abstinence want those disasters to happen to people as an object lesson to others. What an uncaring, inhuman attitude toward their fellow man and woman, not to mention any child that gets caught in the middle! These are human beings they are using and discarding to promote their agenda of “respect for life!” Sure doesn’t look like respect to me.
Jed..
I think our kids already know about “safe sex”. The ones who don’t.. someone needs to slap their parents! As I said before.. let’s give abstinance a chance.. and for the ones that can’t control themselves… definately use birth control!
Way too many kids think they know about safe sex, but most of what they “know” is based in urban myth from their peers. Slapping parents may be emminently satisfying, but education is the solution. Abstinence should have a chance, but only with birth control and available testing for STD’s as a backup plan for when it fails. AE has a lot of competition from hormones!
Jed..OMG.. I think I agree with you!!
See, Miracles do happen!
Jed,
The object lesson is …just because a percentage of people won’t listen to wisdom that you should not stop sharing the truth.
I mean, here is a fine analogy. Everyone knows how to be a millionaire right? invest $25 a week from age 18 to 62…simple….If you wait just 10 years to start the same plan, the cost is $65 a week to the same goal…..So why isn’t everyone a millionaire? why is there poverty? are they “object lessons” created by uncaring consevatives……i guess, if thats what you want to call it.
I call it return on investment. reap what you sow. It is all up to the individual. There is no guilt upon the educator that gave a clear path to a rich and rewarding sex life in it’s proper context.
Hello?
Have some of you even bothered to read the details of Caplan’s study as presented in Ms. Cooley’s link above? He found that there was essentially no difference in sexual promiscuity amone “abstinence” teens and “non-abstinence” teens. In fact, the abstinence teens were participating in more openly “radical” (for lack of a better word) sexual activities (like anal sex)…and they reported that they saw no ethical or moral dilemma with this since they were fulfilling their vow not to have vaginal intercourse until marriage.
So, those of you championing abstinence can go on deluding yourselves that the kids in your church or family are being chaste, pure, and safe, but Caplan’s statistics prove otherwise.
How nice and oh, so timely that the following articles (links) appeared in USA Today.
‘Technical virginity’ becomes part of teens’ equation http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-10-19-teens-technical-virginity_x.htm
Teens define sex in new wayshttp://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-10-18-teens-sex_x.htm
RD,I hate to tell you, but I’m over 60, and “technical virgin” was part of our teenage lexicon. Somehow, I’d thought the word had changed meaning, as words often do, and now just meant someone who had never used a computer. Guess I was wrong!
Brian,that was my very point in my last post. Just because MOST people do not follow the advice does not mean it is wrong or doesn’t work.
It truly amazes me how nearly everyone wishes they could have waited for sex but gives up on conveying that wisdom of experiance to the next generation
We need to teach the optimum results. Clearly define what it takes to be the best, have the best. If you choose not to have the best fine….there is nothing we can do about that, but you don’t lower the bar, don’t lower EXPECTATION.
Again!, it’s not that abstenince-ed never mentions condoms or birth control at all….They tell the truth. It is best not to have sex until marriage, you will be safer and not have all the emotional baggage that comes with casual sex. BC methods fail and offer little or no preventon of STD’s….The kids will know what contaception is! The notion that abstence-ed kids will never hear of a condom is ridiculous and un-informed
Kids are aware of everything, even what is expected of them.
If the advice you give is not being followed by MOST people, doesn’t that mean the advice is either wrong, is badly presented, or being presented by the wrong people? My grandchildren noted that abstinence as the only absolutely sure method of preventing pregnancy was being promoted by a religion based on one of it’s failures!
dr,
That’s not what bothers me. I’m sure they hear of condoms. What bothers me is that you have turned the majority of abstinence kids into traitors to an oath they made…and they’re being praised for lying and covering it up. It seems to me this is a far more grave result than having a little physical excitement is.
The consequences of breaking the bond of your word as a teen will have a chilling effect on these children as adults. Codes of conduct at college regarding cheating, marriage vows, oaths sworn at trial, oaths of commission for the military, ethical behavior at work…I’m willing to bet the CEOs of Tyco and Enron began their venture down the road of corporate crime with the breaking of small oaths as kids with no discernable consequences.
Brian,Excellent post! Probably the most cogent point of the entire debate! Thanks!
Thank you Jed. Coming from you that means a lot to me. :-))
Brian..Unfortunately for some… breaking that oath can have terrible consequences! Actually, the Bible says to never swear on an oath. Just let your yes be yes, and your no be no. It also does not say “be right” in all your decisions.. but it does say “be wise” in all your decisions.Abstinance is great.. but even tha Apostle Paul said “burning with desire” is not a good thing. This is something kids will struggle with even when they become adults, and abstinance is even more difficult of an option. There has to be a backup plan.. we are, after all, human. I’m not advocating “free sex” here… but let’s educate and have a little common sense!
Sam,
While I think that the swearing of oaths passage you quote is being misinterpreted, you’re exactly correct.
We should forget the little details of theology that drive everyone nuts and focus on THE WORK. THE WORK is what is important…helping those who need our help without proseletyzing, condemning, or hurting. If all the major faiths would forget the squabbles over theology, then we would all naturally say that THE WORK is the ultimate goal of our belief..no matter what that belief is.
oathes?…cogent point?..whos talking about swearing in children? We are talking about education and setting the standard. There are orginizations that do ask kids to make a commitment and that is a another debate. But, is not what we are talking about here
dr.I have a “True Love Waits” Bible… it has a commitment card in it.. I think that’s the kind of thing Brian is referring to, and I can understand what Brian is saying. If you make an oath to God.. and then break it.. you set yourself up for a real guilt trip. To commit to “trying to do your best” is good.. but swearing to celibacy.. could, and does seem to, lead to problems.
dr,
Maybe you’re not, but that was the whole point of Ms. Cooley’s post. Take a moment to read the link she supplied. Maybe that will help you to see where we’ve been coming from.
I did before I made post #1 but I re-read it again just for you ;)
No the point of cooleys post was to attempt to discredit abstinence-ed because she like the author can’t fathom that anyone could ever possible control a single desire. as he said: “The message that sex must wait until marriage is not the right message to send to a young person. The people sending the message almost never lived up to it in their own lives and nothing turns a kid off like hypocrisy. Furthermore, most kids themselves just don’t believe it.”
What! This is ridiculous…does he have children? Using this logic you will NEVER teach your children anything! What kind of idiocy is it to say that something you screwed up about, and to this day regret is exactly the same mistake you want your kid to repeat…..shaking my head….
The article was speaking to public schools, we are not talking about instruction from churches. “true love waits” IS a commitment and in a totally diffrent context, that is another topic. Though I strongly support that program IF you are a person of faith and have a community to help you keep your commitment alive!
Oh and by the way since when did the government ever qualify spending with results……………How much have we spent on welfare programs? and imagine that we have more poor today than ever! Which by the way are in poverty because of rampant sexual activity among the un-married…
dr,
Typical…you must be seeing a team of psyichiatrists, huh? So, for the record, everyone who disagrees with you is attempting to discredit abstinence based education with lies, damed lies, and even statistics !! It just is outside the realm of possibility that Dr. Caplan actually did some research on the subject and Ms. Cooley just reported it.
So, you can go on living in your insular little world where no fact is safe. But, remember, whenever you put your passions above your principles even if you win, you lose.