Many of the Kansans involved in the 121 public schools newly designated as failing to meet benchmarks of the No Child Left Behind law might share State Board of Education chairman Steve Abrams’ interest in exploring whether Kansas should opt out of the federal law. So might those whose schools are winning the fight — so far — to comply with the law, which calls for all students to be proficient in math and reading by 2014. As much trouble as the law is causing, though, it’s clearly helping Kansas schools better focus their resources around students’ needs. And opting out would mean forgoing millions of federal dollars. So the state needs to proceed with extreme caution.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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64 Comments
I thought the NCLB Act was a good act to achieve attainable goals in education. I know teacher unions hate it for reasons I’m not clear on, and many people have complained that the Federal Government is not providing enough money, but what is wrong with achievement and the 2014 goal of 100% proficiency.
When I read(no pun intended) that Fantasia (American Idol Winner) could not read, I knew we had a long ways to go in the government school system.
Could the Teachers Union’s problem with NCLB act be the fact that the teachers proficiency ratings are way down? That a sad number of them can’t pass the proficiency tests for their own jobs?The era of the dumbing down of America created a wide path in which being politically correct was more important than being well educated. Maybe what we need is a No Teacher Left Behind program.And don’t get me wrong here: Most of the teachers are dedicated to their profession and excellent people. It’s the education they received that could have stood improvement.
It is my understanding is that it means that the rest of the class is slowed down to the slowest of the class. Rather then the student simply held back along with the teacher having to stop the lesson to explain to the slow student the lesson.
Some cases maybe that the student is unable to understand. But there are those that are simply willful and wish to “teach” the teacher a lesson. Those are the common complains I have heard from teachers.
“And opting out would mean forgoing millions of federal dollars. So the state needs to proceed with extreme caution.”
It boils down to money, Rhonda offers.
This “Every Child Left Behind” boondoggle is so bad, so awful, so worthless, that the bottom-line argument is dragged-out and offered-up to: “Get The Money” { never mind the child} just get the money.
The “thing” has no other merit. But don’t forget the money. That’s it. That’s all that’s really left.
Never mind that this system graduates children who only qualification is to become a candidate for Jay Leno’s “Jaywalking dummies.”
Just get the money. We’ll need that money to build bigger jails.
Jimmy Carter established the “federal” { what the hell are they doing there} “Dept of Education” and it’s been a bureaucratic nightmare ever since.
Ronald Reagan threaten to shut it down and didn’t { in a trade-off } to get something else. But it still needs to go. Children need an education and Bureaucracies like this one “Need to be Left Behind.”
Why? Because we’re trading good education for “get the money.” That’s why.
Actually, Ed, the basis behind the NCLB is laudatory. What it needs is for the states to be allowed to set the teaching agendas as it pertains to the state, not to the feds.Even so, the fact that the children are not up to standards with regard to education in math, english, et al, as the tests show with conclusive evidence, show that there is a major problem with the teaching/learning cycle in the United States.Major changes need to start somewhere, and the NCLB act started it. Now let the States fine tune it to what is needed in their local.
I LOVE NCLB! It is so good, that not only should public schools have to abide by it, but so should PRIVATE schools.
(Note the long pause of deafening silence.)
NCLB is an act designed to make schools “fail,” so that the conservatives can then gloat, “see, public schools are FAILING.”
Private schools that can and do discriminate against disabled and racial minorities if they want to are subject to none of the criteria that NCLB imposes on public schools, and some of these school DO accept federal funds in the form of “faith-based” initiatives.
When private schools are held to the same NCLB standards as public schools, when they have to admit the same students public schools do, then we can have a discussion about “failing” schools.
Until then, it’s just another right-wing political ploy . . .
NCLB may have been a right wing ploy — I am recalling that there was a provision in the earliest version of the bill to give vouchers to students of failing schools — that provision was removed before it passed. Even if the evil intentions suggested by Galahad above are correct, I still believe that it has had a positive impact on children. My view of this comes from serving on the site council of my son’s middle school. Teachers complain about all the testing, etc. involved with NCLB, but they acknowledge that it has forced them to look at why any given kid is having problems, and figure out how to address those problems. NCLB fosters what was like the old behavioral philosophy, “teaching programs fail, children do not”. NCLB has forced accountability on schools — I would like to see the same thing done for politicians — I will not hold my breath.
Jm
Some kids need to learn a trade. There’s nothing wrong with that.
The name of the game is to find out what the kids want and like to do.
I can fix almost anything that’s broken. Writing, as you’ve noticed, is not my long suit. { or spelling }
I do not want to divert the direction of this thread, but a side note that I wanted to add is: the basic difference in conservative and liberal thinking on public education is that an unintended consequence of public education is that it is maybe the last equalizing force in our culture. I see liberals being for this equalizing effect. I see conservatives being for merit-based, market-driven forces when it comes to education. (Note – these are my personal views). Market driven solutions are good for making computers more affordable, I am not convinced that it provides a solution for my children’s education.
Having said the above, I am critical of public schools for pandering too much to the equalizing agenda. My favorite example is the heat contingency. The first week of school all USD 259 schools close at noon. All but a few schools have air-conditioning now, but ALL schools close at noon, because a relative few have no air condioning. Why not close at noon those few schools that don’t have AC yet, and let the others go about their business? The mind-set reminds me of the Pixar movie “The Incredibles” where everyone has to be treated alike whether that is a good or fair idea, or not.
I am not ready to have my children’s education subjected to the social Darwinism of market-forces, but I think injecting a little more reasoning into the public school arena would not be a bad idea ,either.
Okay, Steven E.
I agree that testing can show weaknesses and force attention to those problems, and that’s all to the good.
But why the designation “failing schools”? What good does that do, especially when mentally retarded children are tested and expected to perform at grade level.
JM went to Catholic school all his life. He doesn’t deserve to have an opinion since he doesn’t have first hand experience and he doesn’t believe in the public school mission–”quality schools for all children.”
Ed,Good point. That’s kinda what I meant by states having control instead of the feds one size fits all.
Two personal examples:I recently ran an ad in the paper to try to borrow some money.The ad began: I need to borrow…To date, I have had 300 responses–299 of them from people who thought I was loaning money.I worked for a while as a recruiter for a large employer in Wichita. The job required reading.If I saw 30 people in a day, five of them could read at a 6th grade level…and at least two of them would be disqualified because of a prior prison record.If it takes a Sword of Damocles like NCLB to get people in our beloved Doo-Dah to take education seriously, so be it.
Galahad,I don’t “deserve” an opinion? Because I went to “Catholic” school? What nonsense is that? You’re showing your true colors by making such statements.And you claim I “believe in the public school mission–”quality schools for all children.”"? Under what liberal umbrella are you claiming to have such knowledge of what I do and do not believe in? Mind reading?If you’re going to back the public school system, as I do (but believe there are serious problems), than maybe you should argue those points instead of bashing the questioneer.I also believe in the Private school system, and think that most would pass the NCLB tests with flying colors. But Private schools are just that…private: Held to a different standard. And that standard is almost always above the governmebnt standard for public schools.You don’t like private schools? Why, because most of them have required religious training alongside the three “R’s”? That seems mighty prejudicial to me.Mentally retarded kids are tested and expected to perform at grade level? Who’s grade level? Their age? Their diagnosed grade level? If it’s at their age level than there’s a problem that has to be addressed and fixed. Nothings perfect, bro. Fix what’s broken then move on to the next problem.
Make that “And you claim I “don’t believe in the public school mission
This is Kansas. In these parts education is only about money. If results mattered things never would have reached this point.
JM, it’s not a condemnation of you, it’s just a fact. You didn’t go, you don’t know, butt out.
I think I should start my own “think tank” to expose every flaw I can find in private schools, especially now that some of them are using public funds.
Let me be the Cindy Duckett inveighing against the idiocy of the private school system.
I like it.
How do you like it, JM?
First of all NCLB is based on the “Houston miracle” – the miracle being that the statistical data supporting NCLB was, for all practical purposes, “faked”.
NCLB imposes on teachers and school administrators another layer of bureaucracy..collecting and analyzing student performance by racial and ethnic group, by particular school and school district, by income, by (fill in your variable).
In my opinion, the problem doesn’t lay with the schools, it lays with the students. Teachers don’t “teach” students anything..students “teach” themselves with hard work and with the advice and explanations the teacher might have to offer. Learning is hard work and until you’re prepared to do it, there’s no purpose in being in school. Kids from second and third world countries, where universal education isn’t a reality, go to great pains to succeed in school. They want the opportunity to get out of their crumby situations and make better lives for themselves. The average American student has a reasonably good life and doesn’t see any need to work – a really myopic viewpoint.
I’d be willing to bet that schools would succeed instantly if they were allowed to remove students who don’t work. What would we do with these kids? As Ed suggested, perhaps a vocation is a better use of their time. Personally, I’d like to see the states pass legisation that gives every citizen 18 years worth of education at public expense to be taken at any time in a person’s life. Then, give the schools the authority to kick out the troublemakers. They would be free to return to school at 25, 30, maybe even 40, when the school of hard knocks has taught them the real value of a free education.
My tax dollars still go into the public schools, as such, I will not “butt out”. There’s something in this country you may be interested in. It’s called “The Bill of Rights”. Son of a gun, it gives me the right to speak my mind about anything I wish, and one of them is the problem with public schools.By all means, start your own “think tank”. Maybe even get the Kansas board of Education(?) on board:-))Being as how you didn’t attend private school (as far as I know), by your own logic, shouldn’t you “butt out” of any and all discussion of same? What’s good for the goose…!Maybe if you would have attended private school, your logic would be more invigerating, and to the point.
Brian,I’m going to disagree with you. My experience is that really good teachers don’t have much in the way of disipline problems, because they infect their students with the same enthusiasm they have for their subject. I’ve seen it work! Really good teachers also give their students many things that NCLB fails to test for; hope, ideals, integrity, curiousity about the world around them, and the tools to acquire the information they will need later in life.Unfortunately, really good teachers are few and far between. They tend to be good at whatever they do, and most go into jobs that give them the pay and respect they deserve. Until the school systems and the society offer adequate compensation and respect, they will continue to scrape the bottom of the education pool for teachers.
Points taken….
However, my wife and I are both educators, and I hope, good at what we do. I teach at a public university here in KS and the quality of the students is pretty low. Frankly, chimps could do better on some of the multiple choice exams I’ve seen.
So, the issue rests with both sides – teachers and students, but it is my belief that students must be prepared to work. If it were as simple to learn as just being motivated, then every kid should be a Rhode’s scholar and an Olympic medalist. At some point, the individual has to put out the effort.
Walker
I aced Algebra and Geometry. Don’t remember one thing about either. When I entered the freeway this morning my directional lights didn’t work. I kept jamming the flasher button until the extra draw of electricity tripped the relay. Signal light started working. If you try to enter the freeway without a signal, it’s like demanding entry to other drivers, hello wreck-time. Instinctively I knew what to do.
Kids need to be discovered.
I believe individualized learning should be emphasized. Get the student involved and have them be responsible for their learning. (Learning contracts come to mind) Instead of speaking with their backs to the class while writting at a chalk board, the instructor should be involved with the students. People will learn more if they are doing it. It will also provide a more lasting impression on the students if they can say, “I did it” rather than have something told to them.
NoJoCo
Kids learn what interests them, where they’re passion about something is.
The world also needs welders.
Brian,One of several experiences with teachers. When I was in 9th grade, our science teacher won a national award and was immediately hired away by a California system. His replacement (on short notice) turned out to be an intern at a local hospital, looking for an extra job. This guy absolutely loved biology, and managed to infect his whole class with that curiosity. By the end of that term, we were doing college level work, and it wasn’t effort and drudgery, it was a grand exploration! We couldn’t wait for his class! He was better by far than our previous award winner.The next year in High School, we trooped into biology class, only to find a driver’s ed teacher with a few hours of biology, and no particular interest in the subject. I have never seen a whole class wilt like that! He managed, in less than a semester, to destroy all that enthusiasm and curiousity!Unfortunately, there are far too many of his kind, and far too few of the former examples in our system.
I agree with you there Ed. What I am proposing fits in with whatever area or vocation that fits them. Demonstration is one method of individualized learning that is used for someone to learn welding.
It’s difficult to know what a person really wants or is interested in, but the basic “R’s” are critical for them to function in society.
Ed,”Kids need to be discovered.” You betcha…Correct. But they also need to discover. Good teachiing can exploit that need
NoJoCo
I agree.
But keep in mind, there’s nothing worse than doing what you hate to do. Everybody has a passion and finding that is the school’s job 1
Walker
We’re all on the same page. We need local control, with teachers we can hire or fire.
That adds-up to great schools, with happy kids.
Anyone interested might want to investigate the educational reform in New Zealand. They eliminated much of the administration, gave control back to the local community, and improved overall educational quality.
We would do well to use that kind of example in Kansas.
This has definitely been an interesting thread – Rhonda did a good job.
I am not aware of requiring Mentally Retarded kids to perform at grade level, if that is the case, NCLB will fail – no doubt.
As I have posted elsewhere, it is possible that Bush, et al. did the good thing of NCLB for the wrong reasons.
However, as a result of NCLB, the kids who are not served by and federally funded special education programs because they aren’t limited enough to qualify, but who are also too limited to get what they need out of Regular Classroom — are now being served. (Or, at least, some administrator somewhere cares that they are having problems) This happened as a result of NCLB. I see this as a good thing.
Educators are being dealt with in terms of results. It used to be that if a teacher did a good presentation, that was good enough, NCLB insists that irrespective of the process – results are what are important. To me, this is a positive change. I think of NCLB as being driven by values I usually associate with Liberals. Remember Teddy Kennedy was in on NCLB – where GW Bushwhacked him was that GW failed to adequately fund NCLB.
To avoid “Duckettizing”, I broke my post into two parts. (You know you are noteworthy and important when your name becomes a verb!)
My second point is about the problems with the private/public school divide.
My son goes to Robinson Middle School. He is in that school’s Pre-IB (Pre-International Baccalaurette – an accelerated program that emphasizes academic excellence) and gifted programs. Some of Wichita’s brightest public middle school kids go to this program. It is quite ethnically and culturally diverse.
My boy is pretty smart, but he can be lazy, too. When he first started the Pre-IB program I would harrangue on him about not getting his work done, etc. Like any normal kid, his brain turned off as soon as my mouth was put in gear. However, he found out pretty quickly that if he was not willing to work, he was going to be left behind — and that was something he was not real interested in. Thus, his peer group did for him things I never could do – got him back on the ball in terms of what is important at school.
Short of visiting every private school middle school in Wichita, I am as sure as I can be that I would not be able to purchase for my son what he gets for relatively free in the Wichita Public Schools.
My question has been to various folks in USD 259, why can’t the public school charge for the product they have? Those folks look at me like I am insane — maybe I am. But, I think a public/private blend is the way to go – so that the best of both can be realized. Set up scholarship programs for families who can’t afford the enhanced programs — the Wichita business community can contribute toward Winston Brooks’ salary – an accelerated academic program for non-wealthy Wichitans might be a better return on their money.
I think public schools can do things that private ones cannot. If public schools had sources of revenue over and above taxes (which one is dependent upon the likes of Susan Wagle and Brenda Landwehr to obtain), they could do more — though I’ll admit it is insane – I think this proposal should be looked into.
Sorry about the length of this rant. Maybe I did “Duckettize” after all, but I hope only in a “length” sense.
From the NCLB website, FAQs page http://www.ed.gov/nclb/accountability/ayp/testing-faq.html :
5. How is testing handled for children with disabilities? How is it handled for those with limited English proficiency?
No Child Left Behind requires that all children be assessed. In order to show adequate yearly progress, schools must test at least 95 percent of the various subgroups of children, including their students with disabilities and those with limited English proficiency. States must provide reasonable accommodations for students with disabilities or limited English proficiency. For the latter, accommodations may include native-language versions of the assessment; however, in the area of reading and language arts, students who have been in U.S. schools for three consecutive years will be assessed in English.
Let’s just opt out of the Kansas BOE.
Thanks, RD. Proves the point. If you’ve got a lot of MR’s, you’re gonna be a “failing” school.
Let no good intentions go unpunished.
Jed,
I applaud the efforts of your 9th grade teacher for turning the class on to biology. But….
Have you seen the commercial where the boss has called a meeting of his staff and says “We’re going to make Accounts Payable exciting again…” to the hidden guffaws and snickers of the staff. Some subjects just aren’t “exciting” enough to turn kids on. Biology, if done right, certainly could be.
I also think it’s a mistake to think that all teachers have the ability to do what your 9th grade teacher did…and I’m not sure we want to. The teacher doing a little song, a little dance, and spraying some seltzer down his pants to keep the kids’ attention is exactly the wrong thing to do. The “real world” doesn’t operate this way. School should first of all work to make students self-motivated and self-sufficient. If learning is going to be a lifelong experience then one must figure out how to keep learning as the vagaries of life – work, children, money – interfere.
If the only way to keep students interested in school is to make teachers get a degree in education and then do an internship in standup comedy, there’s a problem of perspective. Learning is up to the individual..if you’re not self-motivated and interested, then why not just leave and let those who have the interest and motivation learn?
Ed and me on the same page? There is hope for intelligent life on this planet after all:-))
Brian,” The teacher doing a little song, a little dance, and spraying some seltzer down his pants to keep the kids’ attention is exactly the wrong thing to do.”I agree; that’s the wrong thing to do! The right thing is what my teacher did. He taught us classification. He taught us cell structure (as much as was known in the late ’50’s). He dispensed with the textbook and took us straight to the journals, and taught us how to use them. Most of all, he gave us the same respect we gave him. He never condescended, never put down a student. He challenged us to go way beyond our grade level, and we did, because he knew we could! We weren’t learning about science, we were doing it. He had our complete attention and we had his. That’s real teaching!That same year, we had a veteran English teacher whose idea of teachihg was to make us memorize the entire Walsh Handbook of English Rules, along with the most insipid poetry ever written, and be able to recite it, word perfect! I had to marry a poet to gain an appreciation of what real poetry could be. This teacher had more discipline problems than the whole rest of the school. This was the same class that our science teacher had no problems with.
Jed,
It sounds as if you were a pretty intelligent kid in a class of pretty intelligent kids. My wife, for example, teaches high school in a local school district and many of her students are functionally illiterate. They can’t even read “Jack & Jill” and then explain what they just read…journal articles – unlikely. And the amazing thing is they don’t generally care !! Frankly, this is the experience of most of her colleagues. There is a small cadre of kids who came up through the educational system who are doing well – and they probably would do well regardless of the school. They are bright, self-motivated, and their parents are on top of them. The rest are generally unmotivated with parents who either aren’t interested or who side with their children instead of listening to the teacher’s points.
Finally, we can’t discount peer pressure NOT to perform today. It’s well-known that certain groups and gangs consider performance in school uncool. These same kids influence a whole group of others who want to be cool too.
A teacher who has a passion for the subject he or she teaches will gain and hold the attention of the students, singing, dancing and seltzer water aside. When a teacher can convey that enthusiasm in a classroom, make it interesting enough for even the most disinterested student, and still educate, our kids will learn.
What’s sad is that this kind of teacher is rare. Some teachers know how to sing, dance and spray, but they fail at the rest. Others know the rest, but fail at making learning enjoyable.
Our children are *not* learning more. They are learning less, in spite of the myriad of programs our schools have instituted in the past 20 to 30 years–NCLB only the most recent. Teaching to the test, as NCLB dictates, will not educate our children. It’s simply another way to make it appear our children are learning. (”Is our children learning?”) Even sadder, we’re not only failing nationally, we’re failing globally.Take a look around you at everyday things. I saw two signs a few weeks ago that were directly across the street from each other. One said, “Your approved!” The other said, “Will devide.”
Technology has made common intelligence a thing of the past. Cash registers now tell the cashier how much change to give back to a customer, making it so much simpler and more assuring that we receive the proper change. Still, some cashiers are puzzled, unable to add up what makes 65 cents. I’m surprised cash registers haven’t been designed to count it out by dollars, quarters, dimes, etc., to save the poor math disabled clerks. (And this coming from someone who IS math disabled–me! But I CAN count back change.)
Several years ago, I was standing in line at parent-teacher conferences. Behind me, a father–one of the founders of the school’s booster club–mentioned to another parent that knowing how to spell wasn’t necessary. His kid had a computer with spell check. I considered the source of the comment and decided not to point out that A) Not everyone had a computer, nor was a computer always available, and B) Apparently his kid would never have the need to produce a hand-written note or memo. I would have loved to have seen the graduation thank you notes from the kid…if daddy bothered to make sure he wrote any.
What I’m saying is that it’s the fault of everyone. Government (state, local, and national), administrations, teachers, parents, and, yes, students are to blame. Maybe it’s the beloved trickle down effect, but something needs to be done. Going back to making certain children learn the basics (those three R’s) might be a start, but how long will it take?
“And don’t get me wrong here: Most of the teachers are dedicated to their profession and excellent people. It’s the education they received that could have stood improvement.”
J.M, sometimes it does go back to the education of the educator. One of the worst teachers I had as a senior in high school (late 60’s, when being a teacher was one of the most popular careers) was fresh out of college. To begin with, he didn’t have a clue how to teach, couldn’t control a class, and his spelling was astrocious. I was lucky that the majority of teachers throughout my junior high and high school years were good, and many were excellent. I still believe there are some of the latter teaching now, but the numbers fall lower each year. I also believe it goes back to the education the teacher received, beginning in grade school and continuing into college.
Testing it good, but it depends on the test. I searched on the NCLB website for an answer to the one question I have: Who compiled/created the tests? I never did find an answer, so if anyone does…
Sorry for stringing posts together, but my time isn’t always my own.
“It is my understanding is that it means that the rest of the class is slowed down to the slowest of the class. Rather then the student simply held back along with the teacher having to stop the lesson to explain to the slow student the lesson.”
R.D., which means that the rest of the class becomes bored and loses interest. Once interest is gone… I saw the same thing happen when my oldest kids were in school. I can’t remember the name of the program or guidelines that were instituted at the time, but a student with a failing grade on a paper or test was given the opportunity to re-do or retake…2 more times, after extra, individual instructing. It took a few years for the method to fail, even though it was great for those who needed and benefitted from it. Those who didn’t tended to goof off, knowing they had 2 more opportunities to make the grade. It also meant more time spent on re-teaching, and many teachers didn’t have the time. Others didn’t even bother to try. Without the extra instruction, it became useless.
Which is not to say that those who need it shouldn’t receive extra instruction. They should. There will always be students who struggle, average students, and excelerated students. We need to find a way to balance it so that all students have the opportunity to learn. NCLB isn’t doing that.
I’m in the classroom. Sorry, those of you who think it’s the teacher’s infectious enthusiasm that will turn everything around are dreaming.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Learning is HARD. It requires EFFORT. You don’t learn to play the violin like a virtuoso by listening to a great lecturer on the joys of playing the violin. Similarly, you don’t learn to solve advanced problems in statistical physics where the books contain pages and pages of the most complex math you’ve ever seen by just going to a lecture and listening to a great speaker on the subject. Practice – which is what school is all about – is often boring, tedious and repetitive. It sometimes DOES involve memorization and rote – like multiplication tables, spelling, and all the rest.
The “joy” from learning comes AFTER one becomes proficient, perhaps even a virtuoso. Anyone who has ever taken music lessons or excelled at an individual sport like gymnastics, wrestling, or fencing, know that these involve endless hours of boring, repetitive, often frustrating drills. These are then coupled with continuing losses at meets…until one day, you finally “get it”.
If an athlete or music student doesn’t do the work, boring as it might be, you can’t fault the coach. Similarly you can’t fault the teacher if a student is unmotivated, his/her parents are satisfied with the inferior performance, and social advancement is now the right thing to do because we don’t want to hurt their little egos.
You don’t win the silver, you lose the gold.
Okay, my turn to rant, and it isn’t short.
Good grief, Brian, we’re not dissing you as a teacher. While I agree with some of what you say, you seem to be taking this discussion personally, and it isn’t meant to be about judging you as a teacher or even a person. It’s about our children and grandchildren getting an education so they will be able to function in life and communicate with each other without being completely misunderstood.
What’s wrong with making learning interesting? You might gain the attention of a few students who previously didn’t care. How much will you learn (and retain) if it’s boring and you don’t understand much of it? If the teacher shows an attitude of disinterest, how many students will be disinterested? Surely a majority. An enthusiastic teacher is one of the best starting points there is to encouraging students to learn. Once kids are hooked, the possibilities are endless. That’s what we’re saying.
You said, “The “joy” from learning comes AFTER one becomes proficient, perhaps even a virtuoso.”
Does it? I disagree. Sometimes the learning and doing itself can bring joy. You’ve never seen the light in a student’s eyes when he or she suddenly understands one small point that may be holding him or her back? We’re not talking sports or music, not chosen subjects. We’re talking the basics. General education. The reading and writing and arithmetic, which can indeed be boring and tedious. Ask 100 high school students why they enjoy school. (Assuming they do, of course.) At least 95% of them won’t mention classes. They’ll mention being with their friends, the extra activities (games, dances, etc.). The “socialness” of it. Most don’t enjoy the learning process because it IS hard work. DUH! But ask them if they have one teacher they especially like and why. You might be surprised at the answer.
Yes, I can fault a coach if the method of coaching is to blame. Same with teachers. Why not? People fault parents for a kid who turns out bad, no matter what morals and virtues mom and dad taught the child. Are you telling me that if a student’s parents are satisfied with inferior performance, you don’t care either?
“…and social advancement is now the right thing to do because we don’t want to hurt their little egos.” I am strongly opposed to wrapping students in cotton batting, especially after having dealt with a middle school teacher who wouldn’t mark poor grammar and spelling on papers because “all those red marks might harm the students’ creativity.” Baloney (or bologna). If Hemingway had written using the grammar and spelling being passed as okay today, who would understand his creativity? If Phillip or Rhonda or Randy or the others couldn’t communicate well through the written word, would we bother to read their opinions? If the teacher didn’t want to grade down on the problems in the writing mechanics, fine. But without correction, who will learn?
End of rant.
RD,
Sorry you thought that was a rant. It most certainly was not. It was simply a statement of my own personal experiences, both as a student and as a teacher.
I have had the great good fortune to be relatively successful in my life. My parents were not well off and I lived in an old, decaying, former industrial city in New England. I was able to do well enough in school to get through college relatively expense free and then go to a top 5 grad school in my chosen discipline.
Along the way I became interested in fencing and became a pretty good competitor..never good enough to be nationally rated (at least for long)but good enough to do well locally and regionally.
My personal experience through all of this was this: teachers can make lectures interesting or boring. Ditto coaches. In the end, if I needed to get things done the onus was on me to do it, not the teacher. If I was dissatisfied with the teacher or coach, I could go get another “teacher”..maybe that new teacher would be a book or maybe a fencer who was doing better than me.
There’s a great scene in the movie “Zulu” where one of the privates is on the verge of tears contemplating what he thought was his imminent death. He asks his sergeant, “why us, why is it us?” And the sergeant responds “Because we’re here lad, there’s nobody else.” That’s how it is with learning too. You are where you are. You’re in the school you’re in. You have the teachers you have. You can moan and groan about how the teachers need to be better, or how the facilities suck. But in the end, the responsibility for your education lies with you.
I would like to thank the Eagle for erasing all remarks by Tara C. Even got all the replies to her;making it look like she never existed. They certainly know how to keep people from expressing their opinions.
I wonder how long this post will last.
I can’t believe I am about to write this, but I agree with Brian. We are all responsible for the education we get — in whatever setting. As a child, I know I wasn’t always in the greatest learning environments, but I worked harder and excelled wherever I was.
As an educator, I am concerned, however, that the NCLB program may be so data driven that children with learning disabilities and social issues may be given stygmatizing labels in order to keep testing data in line with the program’s expectations.
Brian,”It sounds as if you were a pretty intelligent kid in a class of pretty intelligent kids.”My class, while all in ’50’s lily white, was a real mix of social and economic groups, ranging from kids of some of the richest folks in town to middle-class of all levels, to some of the poorest families. Quite a conglomeration! IQ scores ran the same wide range, but not necessarily in lockstep with income level. Class warfare related remarkably to the racial tensions that followed them. It really wasn’t that much different than an average class today.The difference was that it was a one-school county district with a fairly large tax base, could afford to pay better than surrounding districts, and so got first pick of available teachers. The system’s structure at the time allowed that, and for the most part, it worked. We also had an administration that the board trusted, and was allowed a free hand in hiring teachers.
Christian,
It doesn’t surprise me at all that we agree on some issues. Most people are not “liberal” or “conservative” on every issue. The problem I see with most avowed “conservatives” is that they are quick to label anyone who disagrees with them on even one point a “liberal” and they are afraid to admit that sometimes they might even have a “liberal” idea themselves.
Most people are a complex mix of both views. I don’t label myself as either, though I do tend to be liberal when it comes to social issues like class, the workingman, and rights; but I also have a libertarian streak when it comes to legislation limiting the individual’s freedom when there is no proof that doing so is a benefit to society. Finally, I’m fiscally on the conservative side…I believe the government should work hard to spend only what it takes in, that the military/industrial complex has too much power, and that the US could safely cut the military budget by 10% or more and use the funds to pay down the debt, improve infrastructure, and improve the social safety net for the worst off among us.
All,
The racial gap in IQ can never be bridged and as a result NCLB is doomed to failure. Black and non-white latin kids should be diverted into vocational training programs. In so doing these minorities can become productive members of society rather than criminals and/or welfare spongers.
Ian..and your evidence is?? I know !! The Bell Curve !! Let’s do a gedunken experiment. Let’s put you and your family out in Eritrea for a couple of generations. Let’s allow you only the barest essentials in terms of food, water, accomodations, and access to education and leisure activities. Then, let’s take one of your progeny and give them an IQ test alongside an American black and a person of mixed racial heritage. I wonder who would come in last?
You don’t get it do you, Ian? There are all sorts of contributory factors to scores on IQ tests. In fact IQ has been shown to measure only IQ accurately and has only a moderate correlation to intelligence. I’d suggest you take a look at the names and estimated IQs of the people who’ve changed the world over the past 1,000 years (including whites, blacks, asians, mixed racial groups,etc.). While most were certainly estimated above an average IQ of 100, the great majority fall way short of your alleged IQ of 157.
Not to my surprise at least they did something with their “limited” intelligence that was beneficial to the world. Can’t say the same for you.
From his spate of postings it is clear to me that Ian is just a blog spammer looking for a rise. To the iggy bin he goes!!
IQ scores are overrated as a predictor of success in life. One of the stupidest people I ever ran across (at least until Ian showed up) is a past-president of a Mensa chapter, and in his own way, one of the wisest men I ever knew had an IQ score in the low 70’s. Let’s not get in a twist over numbers.
Jed,
IQ does matter! Whu do think that Africa, Haiti, detroit, Mexico etc are basket cases? Why do you think that low Iq non-whites flock to Europe, America and other White Nations?
Ian,OK, if IQ scores do matter, mine still trumps your reputed score by enough that I can legitimately call you a moron. Moron, please go away!
Jed
Like it or not, there’s a truth to what Ian is saying.
Knowing that the problem does exists, we tried “Busing” students in hopes the integration would raise levels. That failed, and brought all levels down.
To pretend the problem does not exist, makes it impossible to deal with it properly.
There is a way to help, without hating people, and deal with the problem directly. It will not go away on its own, and as long as “racism” charges are flung about, it will never go away.
It’s called a predicament.
Ed,There’s truth to it only when you look just at the surface, through white-colored glasses. Get to the roots, and you’ll find that poverty is far more complex than race explains. It’s not a pretty picture!
Jed,
Poverty has nothing to do with this! Studies have shown that poor Whites and North East Asians far surpass their middle class and wealthy black counterparts in all measures of academic achievement!
Moron,Studies show anything you want them to. Go away!
Jed,
You leftists sure do get defensive when your bankrupt ideology gets exposed for the fraud that it is, don’t you?
Moron,My god, you assume a lot!
Jed
I always thought that black areas should be tax-free-zones.
Nothing like a little greed to get an economy to grow rapidly and with outside investment.
I’d prefer no to have any “black areas.” Then we could all live it a tax-free zone!
Jed
Birds of a feather flock together.
I’ve never understood what’s to be gained by just having one kind of bird.
If you think about it, that would be one ugly sucker.
So, why the need?
People tend to gather according to culture. Frankly, I have nothing in common with the Amish, but I also have no need to hate them, dislike them, or be unfriendly to them.
Dealing with reality, is the best place to start, when trying to raise the standard of living for any group of people.
The Amish tend to do just fine when left alone.
People came from China, dirt-poor, but built Chinatown and have done very well, with no help from us.
Perhaps you might take another look at your one bird theory.
In reality: It’s not working.
Ian–
Studies show that northern blacks have higher IQ’s that southern whites.
Hmmm . . . if facts mattered to you, that would really set you back.
But lucky you, you don’t give a damn about them, unless they support your prejudices.