The arena contenders got another look-over at a public meeting Thursday, with new information about where exactly the arena would be sited at each of the four potential sites.
The north site looks like an also-ran. It’s too crowded and is getting too many negative reviews.
The east and west sites still look strongest because of their proximity to Old Town and WaterWalk, respectively.
East is especially promising because of its redevelopment potential with Douglas Avenue shops, the Commerce Street arts district and Old Town. The street-level brick-and-gaslight ambiance is already in place, too.
One consideration that could use more scrutiny: What will be the demographics of arena users? The younger rock concert set will want access to Old Town’s nightlife. Older folks might prefer WaterWalk’s upscale shopping.
It’s also clear that an effective ground transportation and parking plan must be part of any arena site.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Phantom on Open thread 11/22
- Phantom on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
15 Comments
What will revitalize downtown is people living there. Not out-of-towners flying in like a hoard of locusts and getting spat out in a few hours.
Last night I went to an event at Century II. I went, then I left. I didn’t walk along the River Walk, I didn’t drink a beer at a bar, and I didn’t eat a meal at a restaurant.
A new arena wouldn’t change anything.
Mayans and the arena backers should be voted out of office and replaced with people who have EFFECTIVE ideas for improving downtown.
Galahad,What if there are no effective ways to revitalize downtown? We’ve spent decades and fortunes trying, and nothing worked. Maybe it’s time to admit that cities become donut shaped after a while, and find some good public use for the land, or plant wheat on it!
Well, that’s my point, Jed. They haven’t tried EFFECTIVE ways to revitalize downtown.
It can be done. A lot of places have already succeeded, without arenas . . .
At all downtown arena meetings that have been held, the same 200 people attend. Some are county and city government employees. Some are architect and contractor employees, and quasi-government organization employees whose jobs are largely involved in trying to “help the little people of Wichita get a new recreational venue.”
Does anybody else get tired of hearing the word “venue”? Venue means “we got our hand in your billfold.”
Giving four possible alternative locations is basically the old salesman’s gambit: “Now Mr. customer, which do you want to buy, product A or product B? The third choice is never mentioned, that is, NONE OF THE ABOVE.
Regarding the proposed arena, I have never heard any intelligent discussion of what its purpose is. And is the purpose, whatever it is, needed at the cost of a 1/4 billion dollars? I have heard it might be a larger ice skating rink than the LOSER we already have. Or perhaps an old man’s professional basketball court to attempt to lure fans from all our great Wichita high school basketball games.
My suggestion for a downtown activity would be a WORLD CLASS BOWLING EMPORIUM complete with all the bells, whistles and neon lights to attract tourists to Wichita from all over the world. I see bowlers coming from Japan, Russia, India (one billion citizens), China (more than one billion citizens), etc. This needs to be studied by the Wichita Bowling Association to find out if it has a chance.
I understand that currently Las Vegas has such an emporium and it gets the world bowling convention once every three years. Could a new Wichita Bowling emporium be guaranteed to receive it one of the alternative years? My impression is bowlers are the type of people who go Branson, Missouri, rather than New York City. Wichita, so far a family oriented town, just might work.
Speaking of successful downtowns, the two most successful, pedestrian-friendly, in or near Kansas are: Lawrence, Kansas, and the Country Club Plaza/Westport in Kansas City. Neither have or want a general purpose arena to destroy their ambiance — and billfolds.
Some people say that because the election was held, the arena is now committed. Remember, the vote was virtually a tie with some 80,000 voting for it and 80,000 voting against it.
Now, in an election for office-holders, the candidate that gets one more vote than the other wins. This is because our government is loaded with checks and balances and one politician rarely is in the position to make unilateral decisions.
However, many years ago, an astute Frenchman, named Alexis DeTouqueville, made an extended visit to the United States to abserve and write about how America works. One of his trepidations was the possibility of the “Tyranny of the Majority” when it involved spending the taxpayers purse. DeTouqueville saw the possibility of a small majority of citizens spending the teasury of all the citizens to benefit only the west or east side of town.
Now, SPEAKING FOR THE 80,000 SEDGWICK COUNTY CITIZENS WHO VOTED AGAINST THE ARENA PLUS THE THOUSANDS MORE CITIZENS WHO HAVE SINCE TURNED AGAINST IT ONCE THEY LEARNED THE FACTS — THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE DISCUSSION AND A NEW VOTE BEFORE WASTING MORE TAXES ON A LOST CAUSE.
If you build the arena at the West location, with its 418 available parking spots; it would require each vehicle to transport 35.89 people, to meet the attendance of 15,000. Assuming 4 people per vehicle.
Not feasable? Where does the rest of the parking come from?
JWink, I guess you didn’t know that KC is building a replacement for Kemper Arena on tax revenue. Westport and the Plaza is nothing special. You can go to the New Market Square or Bradley Fair in Wichita and it feels and is the same.
Lawrence is nothing special at all either. And the last time I check downtown KC, it was a virtual ghost town with boarded up buildings, graffiti and bums everywhere. Not a pleasant area at all. So I don’t think KC is a poster child for a successful downtown revitalization.
There are however many cities that have adopted downtown arenas for which fits very well and are very attractive. St. Paul has a downtown arena, smack in the middle, and the downtown is active and very lively. It is a wonderful place.
I recently took a trip to Dallas and Ft. Worth, and although Dallas has a long ways to go, it is definitely building it up, but Ft. Worth was amazing. Its downtown was geared for entertainment and activity. I was highly impressed and inspired.
Let us look at regional cities that have or are building downtown arena. KC, Omaha, Des Moines, Colorado Springs, Little Rock, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, and that is just around us. Do you really want to be behind these cities? I surely don’t.
Seems like the arena opposers want Wichita to be a tiny little town. Well I don’t! And the majority of voters saw it that way. You will be singing a different tune (hopefully) once it is built. Some of you won’t, because you are notoriously pessimistic.
The downtown arena is going to be a great addition and amenity to our city. And I, for one, am looking forward to its construction.
Well said, Joe. People who oppose the arena are either old or old in mind or they have a small-town attitude that says, “We don’t need no new-fangled arena”.
Nope, we just don’t want a more expensive ice rink, exploration place, or indian center to bail out. Tire of seeing tax dollars lost in low interest loans and tax exemptions to “revitalize” downtown.
Joe Williams: You sound like a guy who would pack a picnic lunch to spend a holiday viewing the beauty of K-Mart stores around Wichita.
To say the wonderful Country Club Plaza and its neighbor, Westport, both in Kansas City, are “nothing special,” is preposterous. The Country Club Plaza has long been recognized by many architectural and city planning groups as one of the premier and beautiful shopping centers in the world. Of course, the Westport district contains many historical buildings some dating back to 1830’s and sets the standard for “old town” developments across America.
Your remark that Lawrence, Kansas, home of the University of Kansas, is also “nothing special” is totally off the wall. The City of Lawrence is on almost every list of the most livable cities in America and, yes, even the world.
Downtown Lawrence, Kansas, and the Country Club Plaza/Westport are among the most pedestrian friendly locations in America.
Frankly, I was one of the first who suggested some kind of people magnet for downtown Wichita. When I first arrived in Wichita in the mid-1990’s, I suggested the city obtain a super Wal-Mart Store for downtown in order to attract a constant flow of people to downtown 24/7, as they say. But some said downtown Wichita was too good for a Wal-Mart. So Wichita waited too long. The super Wal-Mart went to Broadway and Pawnee instead and we finally got Gander Mountain which hopefully will be a success.
At that time, I also suggested connecting Lewis Street to Waterman with a gentle curve at about Main Street. This idea was leveraged by the powers to be into a multi-million dollar “River Walk,” which I do support. In fact, I believe that project should be extended east to the north-south railroad tracks.
Early on I suggested a privately financed arena on a smaller scale somewhere near Lawrence-Dumont stadium. Steve Shaad and I discussed this several times long before the present arena was leveraged into a 1/4 billion dollar tax boondogle to be paid for by Sedgwick County taxpayers with no opportunity for pay-back in the financial arrangement. So this became an “easy come, easy go,” “shoot the moon,” deal with no expense to the taxpayers to be spared.
Of course, its always easy to spend other peoples’ money. Having been in the building development business, I say the easiest thing to do is to build something, anything. The hard part is to find users/tenants and a purpose for the building at that location. The general rule is “Build it and they WON’T COME unless you get really, really lucky.”
Regarding downtown arenas in other cities, of course they “look good” as you drive by because they are new and “designed” to please the eye. But the real questions should be:1) What is its purpose?
2) How was it financed?
3) Is the “mortgage” being paid or, as in Wichita where there is no mortgage, are the people who pay for it, guaranteed to be paid back, on schedule. Unfortunately, in Wichita, there is no provision to reimbuse taxpayers who will pay for it.
I’m not familiar with the facts about all arenas that have been built in recent years. But financial studies show they generally do not make money and, indeed, become an enormous drag on local economies.
In Des Moines, I understand their new arena was financed by income from a gambling casino. I don’t know how that is working out. I have heard a new arena in Arkansas, Hot Springs??, is a total flop and rarely opens.
The tone of your message seems to be “trust me.” My message is DON’T TRUST ANYONE WHO SAYS TRUST ME!
I agree with justaguy and jwink. They must be two totally old guys, with small town mentalities, incapable of seeing the big picture. (pause for laughter)
Of course, they may be right and in this case, I think they are!
The “Flim Flam Man,” came to Wichita and pushed a program down our throats. WE HAVE bought it. We don’t know where to put it and we don’t have a clue as to how you park your car to attend any of the events. All we know, for certain is, it’s gonna cost alot of money!!
To say that there are many unanswered questions, to this scenario, is to understate the obvious. One would only hope, that this entire event would help solidify the city of Wichita but, I see the opposite and only time will tell, the outcome.
Keep your checkbooks handy!!
If we have to have this white elephant, why not build it in Eastborough, near to those who can afford to go to it!
Jed: Eastborough doesn’t have enough cops, to arrest all the speeders exiting the arena, that might exceed the 20mph limit.
Also, think of lowering the property values, increased crime, etc.,etc.
Let’s vote again!! All those that want the arena, get to pay for it. Those opposed: Get to stay home and cook out, or watch your streets flood, when it rains.
The Downtown Arena will happen. The voters had their chance to speak. The problem we have is that…
1. Too many do not vote.2. Too many that do vote are uninformed.3. When a vote is done those that did not win make excuses instead of accepting the “will of the people”.
Had it lost they would expect the issue dropped. Instead they fight on.
If you do attend a function downtown now and do not take the time to enjoy any other downtown attractions, clubs, or restaurants then you are the one missing out.
I personally do not play tennis, swim in public pools, nor do I use any of the local museums. I do recognize that the do add to the quality of life for many in the area.
Those of you against the arena should focus your energy on ways to make it work. It will happen with or without your help. It is time to be apart of something not just against something.
I will certainly agree with the previous poster, on items #1 and #2.
I will accept item #3, if he can assure me, that the voters were not pumped full of alot of hot air and promises, to get this proposal passed. I know he can’t do that!
I just think, we, as a community, are gonna pay for this mistake, for a long time. The ones that really suffer, are the lower income people, that will never use the facility.
So, You go ahead and enjoy it.
Well said, Michael.